Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1: Your parents are emotionally abusive and I'm very sorry. Everyone has parents who love them and it sounds as if you haven't had that. You say you don't miss your parents. There is nothing wrong with that. Surround yourself with people who will fill in that gap for you. And if you're still feeling guilty: young kids can be jerks. Most sane people drop it and move on. It isn't you that is broken. It's them. It sounds like you already know that, but you've had this one phrase being rewound and played back to you over and over. It's time to break the tape. The person you are now is what matters.

LW2: Why does it matter to you so much how people dress? I can see it being an issue if you run and office and people are breaking the dress code or someone came to your wedding in jeans and a t-shirt. But if you're talking everyday public places, this is something you're just going to have to get over. More and more people are working from home or at jobs where they can wear what they want. I know I won't be dolling myself up to go to the grocery store for some milk and soda.

LW3: See above. People really need to learn to mind their own business. Yes, there are people who abuse the handicap plaques. My ex and his sister would borrow use their plaque whether or not their handicap mother was with them. But nobody designated this woman the parking lot police. You don't owe her an explanation and you were totally right to keep walking.

LW 2. Wasn't there a cartoon character called 'Pigpen'? He was always filthy with bugs and germs flying off of him. No one wanted to get to close to him for fear of contamination. That's is how some sloppy dressers affect me.
I don't think you have to get "dolled up" as per one response, but I do see people who are wearing bedroom slippers and what looks like pajamas in public. Too lazy to get dressed? I also see tattered stained clothing that look too huge, (or sometimes way too small on bodies that would look better covered up!) Don't they have any self-esteem ? I do think it is more respectful to dress nicely for church, or funerals, and I think it is "classier" to really dress up for the ballet, opera or classical music concert. The orchestra dresses up for us, why would we want to look like slobs? My husband always changes in to clean jeans and a button down shirt before he goes to the store, and I change out of my grubby house-cleaning duds.

LW1: What Datura said! Your mother is an abusive wackjob, and what she's doing is called projection. You should have ditched her years ago. Enjoy your freedom, and don't look back.

LW2: Get a life! People from other countries wonder why people like you are so obsessed with appearances, which in your case revolve around an arbitrary standard of formality. Dignity comes from who you are, not what you wear, and a healthy mind, body and spirit insist on comfort, practicality, and freedom of movement. FYI: Studies consistently show that office workers who dress comfortably are more active throughout the day.

LW3: Good response to a rude remark! Unfortunately, people do misuse handicapped parking spaces, but maybe this woman will think twice next time. I once saw an able-bodied man park in a handicapped spot and walk quickly into the store. I assumed he was misusing the spot until he came out later with an older woman who needed his help to walk to their car. Never assume, folks!

2ol1 you oi enwullistione to oyuroen mohteoren becsoaue aaruieon is behiorne motyeorn and sheion will taekll you ionere ouo are not you shoerhie not tell hiere she has caonena!! pimpoel!s!ha ha.yes///? nie=o.me.

LW1, your mother is what is politely called a fracking idiot. You had the bad luck to be raised by her, but now you've made the wise decision to cut her out of your life. Stop worrying about what she thinks, okay?
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LW2, I've always pictured the Annies as extremely frumpy dressers. It's funny you'd write to them about your perceptions of declining dress codes in America. I'm curious now how other people picture them?
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Lolley, definitely, yep, and unquestionably. Indubitably too. I couldn't have said it better.

I'm going to volunteer as translator here (taking out a few dozen extra characters and rearranging what's left): "You will listen to your mother because ruin is behind mother and she will take you in or not. She will to tell her she has acne pimples, ha ha." It almost makes sense except for the "ruin is behind mother" phrase.

It's great to see Lolley back! We've missed her unique wisdom.
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LW1 - I agree with Nowhereman and Datura. The LW's mother is a terrible, emotionally abusive person and he's well rid of her. It's amazing that the LW has apparently turned into a normally functioning man with that kind of upbringing. Stay away from her and be glad to be done with her. I'm sorry that the LW had to put up with her as long as he did.
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LW2 - Unless someone is dressing in a manner whick is actually offensive (dirty, smelly, with private body parts exposed, etc.) I don't see what difference how they dress makes. Comfortable clothes are becoming the norm in the workplace, and I think employees are more productive when they're comfortable. However, you can be comfortable AND professional in your dress. Times change, and the way people dress changes too. The LW shouldn't be so concerned about how others present themselves.
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LW3 - Both my daughter and I have handicap license plates and both of us need them. She is in a wheelchair, so she doesn't get comments about it but my handicap, while making it painful to walk long distances, is not visible. Every once in a while, someone will tell me that I don't "look" handicapped, and I respond that rudeness and ignorance do not go well together, and move on.

LW1--I don't know what planet your mother hailed from but in this world, it's practically part of the written job description of every 11 year old boy to tease and embarrass his older sister and her friends. That your mother seemed so outraged that you had the temerity to do just that, and couldn't let what was a perfectly normal and benign incident go after two decades should tell you that she's mentally unbalanced at best and a horrible, vindictive mother at worst. It seems to me that your mother used this long ago incident as a convenient ace up her sleeve which gave her and the rest of the family license to verbally harangue and abuse you whenever they liked. Getting out of your parents' car six months ago and not speaking to them since was the BEST thing you could have done. The reason you don't miss your parents is because they never acted like real parents; they were instead simply mean ugly people whose true side you have finally noticed. Pat yourself on the back and then consider therapy to try and undo whatever damage your parents undoubtedly inflicted that is hindering your adjustment as a productive adult male.

LW2--Are you honestly asking two frumpy advice columnists from your local paper who to change the way everyone in society dresses? It shouldn't be a surprise to you that everyone has their own unique style as well as their own values and beliefs. This has been evolving since time immemorial. In short, not everyone is going to kowtow to what you deem attractive or acceptable. The world doesn't revolve around you; grow up!

LW3--I agree with the Annies that you are a kind and gentle reader. Personally I would have told the clod who commented on your use of the handicapped parking space to piss off.

My mom did something like that. When I was 11 I was asked by my mom's roommate if I wanted a specific snack from the store. We made chocolate pudding the night before so I asked for whipped cream to go on top. My mother brought out that story for nearly 20 years to explain why I got poor grades that year. Yup, whipped cream made me have poor grades. Dyslexia had nothing to do with it. Why would the fact that I was being forced to do things in the traditional way and my brain couldn't process it very well be the reason. It was all because I would have a less than perfectly healthy snack. I finally told her to drop it and why I asked for the whipped cream a couple years ago. She hasn't brought it up again yet, but I expect she will eventually.

For Lw 2, yes it would be lovely if life were in the style of Downton Abbey and the women all wore nice gowns and men all wore tails to dine in. Let me just break out my corset and we can have almonds for dessert. Get over it. I admit that I have gone out looking like a slob. The main reason for this is because I don't really care if a random stranger thinks I look like a slob. I am usually more amused at the woman who has spent an hour dressing for a 10 minute run to buy milk. I find it absurd that some women actually wear high heels all the time. But, if that's how they like to dress it is no skin off my nose. I may smirk, but I don't obsess about it to the point of writing into an advice column.
BTW, I'm a Target level slob, not a Walmart level slob. I have never worn underpants as a shirt or a tank top as a skirt. But I have gone out in cut offs and my husband's stained undershirt. That reminds me, I should brush my teeth. And my hair. And find my hairbrush.

LW1: I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did -- your mother is *horrible* to you and there's no way you should put up with it. Yours is a perfect example of the need to cut toxic people out of your life -- and until she apologizes to you and promises never to do it again, keep her cut off.

LW2: Wow, you sure must be fuuuuuun at parties. Yeesh.

Oh, and I agree with what Lolley said.

Re LW1: your mom sounds like my ex. She would periodically remind her 40 year old son about a similar sort of mistake he made as a teenager. And not just in passing, but at length. I commented that there was a statute of limitations on these things but that didn't slow her down. I suspect it's a control mechanism... if your mom can make you feel bad and insecure about yourself, then she's got more control over you. You did the right thing to first tell her to stop, and then break ties.

LW1 - Your mother is what I call a wackadoodle. And Baldrz is right when he says that what she did is called projection. The definition of that is, " when a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world instead." You haven't spoken to her in 6 months and you're happy? Might as well stay happy, right? Good riddance.

My grandmother does something similar, but not to the extreme like your mother did. She loves to tell "he/she was a bad boy/girl" stories to people in front of you to embarrass you. She claims when I was 3 years old she babysat me and took me to a restaurant where I threw a tantrum. She acts as if I am the only 3 year old in the world to throw a tantrum and that I was the world's worst behaved child because of that 1 incident. I'm in my mid 30's and she STILL brings that damn story up in front of others. Her one great-granddaughter is a typical 3 year old and all my grandmother ever does is describe her as "fresh." She's not fresh...she's a toddler. But God forbid this girl gets tired and starts to whine a bit...G starts going off about about "fresh" she is. One day I said, "She's not fresh. She's a good girl she's just a toddler, give her a break." G's response? "Oooh, I used to know a little girl who was VERY FRESH, too!" while pointing at me. OMG, get over it!

LW2 - I agree that some people don't dress the way they should at times. I've been to weddings and have seen women in stretch pants and oversized t-shirts. I was at one wedding where a guy (not a kid...this guy was easily 40) wore ripped jeans and a Van Halen t-shirt. I was at a wake once where someone was in sweats. But what can you do about it? Nothing. I then figure there are worse things in life and look away.

Re: dave - "I suspect it's a control mechanism... if your mom can make you feel bad and insecure about yourself, then she's got more control over you."

Spot on! I do believe projection is a part of it but I think you're right when you say it's more control than anything.

Every time I saw him, an old friend of my father's would bring up a time when I was five years old and greeted him with "You stink!" Needless to say, I don't remember the incident. I refused to allow my father to invite this friend to my wedding.

I wish I could wear my jammies and slippers to the store.

LW2- I have news for you, in other countries women also wear pants, and many people wear jeans. Do you think they dress like "Mad Men" in Europe?

LW1's mom reminds me of my mother in law. She would try to embarrass my hubby by telling me "outrageous" stuff he did as a child. At first I just laughed, trying to take the sting out of her words. Then one day DH told me how much his mother's words still hurt him. I reminded him that I love him as he is and that she was making him feel bad to make herself feel better. Then the next time she tried this sh!t I lambasted her. I told her to shut up and stop being abusive to DH. She was shocked. I told her that as his wife, I refuse to allow anyone to abuse him. She still tries to slip things in once in a while, but I will either walk away or if we're in public I give her the stink-eye. In case you're wondering, DH was so beaten down by her that he just couldn't fight back.
LW2: I laughed out loud when I read your complaint! I'm currently sitting in my new office that came with my promotion. I am wearing my favorite Levis, a sleeveless blouse and boat shoes with no socks. Why? Because I work my butt off, and I'm much more productive when I'm comfortable. If I know ahead of time that I need to, I can dress up as nice as anybody. I also dress up for the important stuff, but if I'm running to the grocery or hardware store they're going to have to take me as I am.
LW3: See KItty's response. It's perfect!
PS it's good to see Lolley here!

As if the US were the only country in the world where people dress lazily! Does the LW think that everyone in Eastern France wear Chanel and Lacroix to go to the post office on Sundays? Working in the fashion model industry, I constantly scan people and evaluate how they are dressed and how they did their makeup, but c'mon, as if everyone had the money, the time, and the knowledge to look spectacular all the time. Even models decide against fixing their hair once in a while (and sometimes during castings, yikes). There's a difference, of course, between people who don't have the means and people who simply don't care, but what can you do besides looking stunning in comparison? Is it really that hard?

Re LW2 - Shortly after I moved to a new state, I attended a funeral and was appalled that several people had worn jeans, which I considered disrespectful. About a year later I went to another funeral, and the deceased was dressed in jeans. That's when I got over my judgmental attitude about other people's clothing preferences.

LW1 - Your mother is a bitch. Good riddance.

LW2 - Stop focusing so much on what other people do. Oh no, jeans!!! The devil's fabric, am I right?! The world is changing, and you are not changing with it, but at least keep it to yourself. (By the way, there have been people dressing like slobs since forever, and in all countries even today - I think you watch too much TV, frankly!).

LW3 - You ARE nice. I'd have broken out the old "I'm wishing cancer upon you!" а la Terrance and Phillip. This IS how we Canadians deal with things, apparently!

Re: Michelle

Hah, your grandmother sounds hilarious for like 2 seconds. Maybe mutter "god, I can't wait for you to die" just loud enough that she can hear it, next time.

LW1 -
"Is my mother crazy, or do I have to do some penance?"
I don't know if she's crazy, but she sounds obsessive enough to qualify, and she IS a vindictive, ball-breaking bitch. As for pennance, while the comment to that teenaged girl wasn't exactly nice, neither was it the federal case your mother turned it into. Methinks the punishment ought to fit the crime, and you've done pennance enough IMHO.

No, what you did to that kid wasn't nice, but just the same, she would have had to have a pretty fragile ego for something that trite to ruin her life. And it turns out that whatever turn her life took had nothing to do with you indeed. Not to mention that, as an 11 year-old CHILD, you were hardly responsible for learning from example.

Your mother is a toxic, mean and nasty sorry excuse for a mother, and I'm sure this favourite topic of hers to dance on your head about was hardly the only snark coming out of her. If your father never even raised a voice in your defense in light of this constant verbal abuse, then he was no better - perfect example of "Whoever stays silent is condoning". You did well to cut them off, I'm sure your life is much more pleasant without them. Stay away from them.

P.S.: You may not need to do pennance, but you do need therapy. 35 years of her banging over your head will have wrought considerable damage - and the proof of which, you needed to be TOLD that an off-chance bullying comment from an 11 year-old is not enough to ruin someone's life?

LW2 -
I much prefer people wearing jeans to some of the things I've seen, especially on women. Sloppy is better than slutty. And frankly, I don't know about American cities, but here in Montreal, I don't see such a predominance with jeans. It's only one of the things people wear, and it's pretty much lost in the immensity of what else there is. Perhaps you're a little obsessed, mister Observer, and observing jeans from the bigger end of the looking glass.

LW3 -
I would reply, "I have proper identification. The people who gave it to me were satisfied. I don't have to supply a medical report to YOU."

Re Administrative Professional Day -
It's all very nice to have a special gesture on a chosen day, but if Administrative Professional Day is the only time in the whole year that you show your appreciation, then you're not really appreciative at all, and you don't deserve the good service you're getting. And that goes for any others whose "day" it is once a year.

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@Sarah Stravinska #2
"I do see people who are wearing bedroom slippers and what looks like pajamas in public. Too lazy to get dressed?
Yes.

"I also see tattered stained clothing that look too huge"
They lost weight.

(or sometimes way too small on bodies that would look better covered up!)"
Their clothing lost weight.

"Don't they have any self-esteem ?"
"I don't give a damn about what anybody thinks" is their idea of self-esteem.

"The orchestra dresses up for us, why would we want to look like slobs?"
Move to Montreal. Most people here do dress up some for a concert venue - unless it's an outdoors, summer free performance, and there are lots of those here. ;-D

@Kitty #7
"It's amazing that the LW has apparently turned into a normally functioning man with that kind of upbringing."
I'm not sure about that. At 35, he's still travelling in his parents' car and I hear no mention of a SO. Not to mention that a man that age should know on his own that teasing someone about their pimples is not enough to ruin their life forever, and not need official proof before he can finally tell his mother off. That he put up with this yurunda for a quarter century doesn't look good.

The first essential first step has been taken at long last, but I think he has a long way to go before he's really free of their nefarious influence.

@Mike H #10
"I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did"
That's because he had to have confirmation that he did NOT ruin that kid's life with that comment before he finally blew up. What I find surprising is that he couldn't figure this out by himself. I think momzilla has done a bang-up job of breaking his balls and that he has a long road to full recovery.

@Michelle #13
Isn't abuse of any kind always control-motivated?

@Kimiko #14
Next time, snap back, "When a 5 year-old tells you that, it's because you DO stink - out of the mouth of babes..." :-D

LW1 -- Like everyone else (so far) at the BTL, I think your mother is a toxic idiot and you are well rid of her. But I also know that it can be very difficult to cut off one's parents, no matter how toxic they may be -- the desire for their love and approval is so great that it frequently overwhelms the realization that they aren't capable of giving that love and approval. Stay strong and stay away!

LW2 -- While I have seen people turned out in a slovenly manner, it has never once occurred to me to write to a couple of advice columnists asking what can be done about it. I'm sorry, but you sound like an idiot.

LW3 -- Well done! While I wouldn't blame you or anyone else with an "invisible" handicap for an angry and rude response to these people, I am glad that you took the higher road. Are these people sticking their noses where they don't belong? Of course they are. But let's also remember that (oddly enough) their hearts are actually in the right place -- they are trying to look out for people who are handicapped who sometimes are unable to use a handicap space because someone who is NOT handicapped has taken the space. They just don't realize that disabilities come in many forms, and not all of them are obvious (and, of course, they apparently have a disability of their own -- an inability to keep their noses out of other people's business).

@Lise: "Their clothing lost weight."
LOL! Love it! My new excuse! Thanks!

Sorry that today was supposed to be a cooling off day, but LW1's topic really got my danders up for some reason.

LW1: Wow, I'm surprised that your mother continued to hold your comment from a generation ago against you. What year did that happen – 1989 (by my math)? And you were 11?

I mean, it's like some BTL'ers have said – a kid who's 11 or thereabouts is invariably going to make a rude, insensitive comment. While the mother was right AT THAT TIME to reprimand the son and to teach him that appearance doesn't matter (after all, all teen-age girls go through acne problems at some point, right?), it should have been a lesson learned and forgotten.

It really annoys me to no end when someone will bring up something that happened, say, 20 years ago that was relatively minor – especially if it were a typical childhood incident that ended with a lesson learned – and make a big thing of it, as though it defined relationships and one's future. The LW's mother suggesting that a rather mild (albeit insensitive) remark to the girl about her acne ruining her life is a stretch at best and, more than likely, completely off base – as proven by the girl's own comment to the LW that her current life's situation was the result of her own choices. The LW was made the scapegoat here by a mother who was certainly uncaring for her own son and, I'd guess, disappointed that the girl didn't do better in life when she really didn't have a stake in it. (Honestly, I'd seriously like to have the mother explain why she even said something as asinine as, in essence, "My son's comment about her acne ruined her life!" And why she cared more for her older child's friend than her own flesh and blood.)

Speaking of reminders, with Bella Amore's remarks, I'm reminded of a friend who once complained about his brother sometimes bringing up remarks said and misbehavior of 25 and perhaps 30 years ago, as though it set the course for the future of all involved. Insensitive comments, inappropriate remarks ... all of that done when the kid was 9, 10 ... maybe 11 years old. Now my friend's parents took him aside and told him why his behavior was wrong, he was told to apologize and that was it, but apparently my friend's brother was not satisfied (what'd he want – a severe beating or have him locked in jail?).

Anyhow, it isn't the brother's right to keep harping on it 30 years later. In case you're wondering, Bella Amore's response is perfect!

Childhood lessons are best left in the past. I take it, LW, you've learned from your mistake. Now, sadly, it appears your mother is going to be left there, too – in the past. I do hope you can forgive her someday and that you can have that relationship you've been longing for ... although don't be surprised if it never happens. Sorry that it came to that.

LW2: Agree with the others – I think you'd do best to worry about yourself and not what the next person wears. I'll leave it at that.

LW3: Good comeback. I think sometimes, however, ignoring these remarks and questions is the best policy. Even a mild comment like yours could draw a violent response from some busybody who is determined to make your private business his and damn the consequences.

Re: Lise (#21)

And a response to a "special day" reminder by the Annies – today, it's Administrative Professional Day – is something that got me riled up yesterday. Here we go again. Sigh!

Folks, why can't we just accept a day for what it is? The Annies were reminding us to be nice and to do it as a public service. Yes, of course appreciate your administrative professionals each day, but just salute today them and be done with it. Which is exactly what I'm going to do as soon as I wrap up this comment.

Ooops, I guess I fit into the 'won't leave the house without my make-up on' category. I don't look askew at those who dress down, I just don't feel complete without it. My attire may not be immaculate but my face is. I assume it is indoctrinated in me because of my profession.
I agree with all the rest that the mother has carried this 'story' on way too long if she was aware of the effect it was having on him. I am also guessing that it took him as many years to bring it to her attention in such a forceful way. Habits are hard to break. The final straw and all. I think all families have the embarrassing story on each child. I am not letting the mother off the hook because this is beyond mean telling him that the girl's demise is a result of his teasing. But, he does say that after the first year the incident was alluded to and not thrown in his face except for the one comment. It is sad that he has harbored this for years and years before the final confrontation. The mothers reaction to this is pretty telling - I'm guessing she was taken by surprise by his outburst. If he is happier without his parents in his life I guess it is working for him and perhaps it should continue. I wonder what dad did to be included in this estrangement?

Calm down, Brian. It's only an opinion.

LW1 -- while I have already gone on the record as agreeing that the mother is toxic and the LW was right to cut her off, I do want to make a comment related to people bringing up embarrassing moments from childhood. What made this particular situation toxic was that the mother wasn't bringing it up in fun, along the lines of "kids do/say the darndest things..." -- she was bringing it up specifically to hold it over his head that he had ruined someone's like with that comment. There is a difference (to me, at least) between bringing up one of those "darndest things" moments as a source of amusement (that may not always be so amusing to the target), versus actually trying to beat someone down. What I noted about Bella Amore's post, for example, is that her initial response to her MIL bringing up embarrassing stories about Bella Amore's husband was to laugh them off. Because, of course, she naturally assumed that while the stories were designed to embarrass her husband, they weren't necessarily intended to truly hurt, belittle and disparage her husband. When she later learned how much these stories hurt him (and, presumably, that there is a history/pattern of this belittling), she correctly changed her response.

There are any number of embarrassing stories from my childhood that various members of my family LOVE to bring up. Since I know just as many equally embarrassing stories about them, and have been known to bring them up myself, it doesn't bother me, and when I do it to them, it doesn't bother them. It's all done in fun. We all of us can take a joke, and no one is truly trying to hurt the other.

I remember my brother telling one of his college roommates an embarrassing story about me while the roommate was visiting us over the summer. I just rolled my eyes when I realized what my brother was going to tell him -- I'd long since learned that I gave these stories far more power when I took them seriously and got all worked up about it, so rolling my eyes was as much response as I was willing to give it. When the story was over, I was laughing with my brother (because laughing along with him took even MORE power away from the story), and the roommate said to my brother: "man, it must have really sucked for you to have a sister like Lisa." My brother (and I), were nonplussed by this and didn't know what make of this. My brother said, "why would you say that?" "Well," said his roommate, "if that's the worst thing she did, then she must have been the Golden Child around here -- it would suck having to live up to that!" My brother's jaw just dropped to floor, and I burst out laughing.

Years later, we were talking about that roommate of his, and I brought up his response to that old story about me, and I said to my brother, "well, I hope you didn't really take what he said to heart -- he was probably just hoping to get in my pants." My brother just whooped and said, "now see, THAT's what's so hard about having you for a sister -- you're better at teasing yourself than I am at teasing you!"

The point is -- it's not ALWAYS toxic. Obviously, the key is the intent. But sometimes we just need to realize that we often can give these stories power over themselves when we also have the ability to render them harmless.

Re: MT
"BTW, I'm a Target level slob, not a Walmart level slob"....Ha! Priceless! And Amen to many of those who lurk in WalMart-Ville. I have seen some peculiar "outfits" in WalMart. I have been wondering lately if it's a southern thing. Maybe not!
LW1 - My heart really breaks for this guy. In my opinion, child abuse is one of the main problems with today's society. I hope he keeps his distance from his toxic mother. And I pray he does not carry the pain and resentment on to his relationships with women.
LW 2 -I used to work for a company where all of us women were forced to wear skirts. (eyeroll) It did not matter if I had to file boxes in the warehouse. Garsh darnit - I was to wear a skirt!! I can appreciate a dress code. And I can also appreciate that some people really should step it up a bit. I am seeing more and more people come out in PJ bottoms ...And it's amazing how many people (grown adults) love Sponge Bob! However, I do not see this as an American crisis!

I feel for ya, LW1. My story, though not as bad as yours, is that my mom would tell anyone who would listen about the time that I rubbed poison ivy over my arms and face and said, “See? I don't get poison ivy!” Well, I woke up with a severe case the next day! My mom would say how it was so bad that my eyes were practically swelled shut. I was only about 5 or 6, but I remember the incident. I probably should have been taken to the doctor for a cortisone shot or something, but that didn't happen.

@Anji, MT, Penny and others -- Have you ever watched "What Not To Wear" on TLC (which was inspired by a show of the same name on BBC -- those crazy Brits!)? Practically every person who has ever been featured on that show has been caught heading out to the grocery store in PJs. For all of that, I honestly don't believe I've ever seen someone who was obviously wearing PJs at the grocery store (then again, hubby does most of the grocery shopping, so I'll have to ask him!), but clearly it does happen. Mind you, I, too, have seen some "peculiar outfits" in public, and not just at Walmart! But despite all of that, I also do not see this as an American crisis, and writing in to advice columnists about it strikes me as the height of ridiculousness.

While I do not have to be perfectly coiffed, garbed and painted to go to the grocery store, I will say that it sounds like Penny and I are close to being birds of a feather on this topic. Not only do I generally make a point of being (at least) clean and neat when I go out in public (and almost always with at least SOME makeup on), but I even make a point of dressing to go to work -- which is kind of funny, since I work from home. I'm not putting on a suit and heels (unless I'm going out somewhere for work), but I'm not just shuffling into my home office in PJs and slippers. Some people are more productive that way, I suppose. For me, I am more productive when I have taken the time to make myself presentable. Mind you, "presentable" at home is not the same as what I would wear when I did have an office to go to, even though I could have gotten away with wearing shorts and a t-shirt even when I worked at the office. My job is done almost entirely by computer and phone, and we rarely had outsiders come to our office, so my boss typically wore shorts and a golf shirt to work most every day. I was the only person at the office who would actually wear outfits that would have been equally appropriate in most white collar office settings. I did this because I am one of those people for whom getting ready in the morning helped "set the tone" for the whole day. When I look more professional, I feel more professional. When I feel more professional, I am more productive. But I have also learned that you don't have to be uncomfortable to look professional (it's a different story if you really do have to wear a full suit -- but even then, with the right fabric and cut, you can be professional and comfortable). Of course, while I do like to wear skirts and dresses occasionally, I wouldn't have been happy somewhere that REQUIRED me to be in a skirt -- pretty sure I can be equally professional and productive in pants!

This may not be true for everyone, but I know it is true for me, and I have seen it work for other people, as well: when you dress the part, you look the part, when look the part, you feel the part, when you feel the part, you are comfortable in that part, and when you are comfortable in that part, you are more likely to succeed in that part. Indeed, I have been known to actually take MORE care with my appearance when I don't feel well -- I find I can trick myself into feeling a bit better when I know that I at least LOOK like I'm OK.

Moreover, I have found that people act differently when they are more dressed up, which can also lead to other people treating them differently, as a result. Perfect example: regulars have heard me talk about the collegiate women's group I work with. They have two very different social events that they do every year. One is a formal -- the women wear ball gowns, the men are in suits or tuxes. The other is a themed party where everyone wears camouflage wear. Guess which one has more unruly behavior and problems at it EVERY year than the other one, to the tune where we are thinking of no longer having it? Put a college student in camo, and s/he absolutely behaves differently than when you put that same college student in a ball gown or tux. Fact is, this holds true for most people, not just college students.

Mind you, I still think the LW is being ridiculous.

The point is -- it's not ALWAYS toxic. Obviously, the key is the intent. But sometimes we just need to realize that we often can give these stories power over themselves when we also have the ability to render them harmless.
**************

Now, THIS should be cross-stitched, framed and hung somewhere where we see it everyday.

We often find what we want to find in someone's statement, expression or joke.

And while I'm glad Bella Amore is no longer laughing at her MIL's anecdotes that hurt BA's husband, I have to think the switcheroo, as presented here, was a little befuddling to me and I would imagine it confused MIL as well.

I'd have expected something less iinflammatory and more along the lines of a privately delivered: "Mom A, at first I thought you were sharing stories that you and my husband both found funny... and so I laughed, too. But I think you should know that he's told me he finds it hurtful rather than funny... and so I'm going to ask you not to repeat that kind of statement around him anymore. You're a good person snf you raised a good man whom I love him dearly. I know neither of us wants to see him hurt unnecessarily, and that you'd be upset to hear me speak of him that way, so let's just not, OK?"

LW2 reminds me of a story. I worked in an office, and the boss insisted that all women wear skirts to work every day- no pants ever. This was back when bosses could do that. We all wondered why he was so obsessed about it, until one day his wife came to visit him- and she was dressed in a pin striped, man tailored suit, with a cigar in her mouth! (!) He couldn't control her, so he controlled us, I guess.
And one more story. I went to a wedding of a colleague, a very formal reception was given in a fancy pants hall. More than a few of her relatives were wearing farmer bib pants with t-shirts under them. Someone asked the bride if she thought that they were underdressed. She lifted her gown a bit to reveal her cowgirl boots. "This is how my family dresses!" she declared proudly. I was proud of her.
I think there is a way to dress for work, and a way to dress for play. So I do that, but I don't have any control or concern over what others do.

Re LW3,
I, too, have a handicapped placard and my handicaps are not visible. I also have many good days on which I don't need to use a handicapped space and I don't. But I've been in that position - having someone comment on how I don't "look" handicapped. My response is (said very lovingly and with a broad smile), "Oh - would you like to have my handicapped placard? I'd be happy to give it to you but, in return, you must take my fibromyalgia, along with the nerve damage in my feet I got from the chemotherapy used to treat my cancer, along with the unsteadiness I sometimes experience since I had the stroke." Polite, yes, but hopefully it makes those ignorant people think!

Ruth

Zoe: "The devil's fabric"? Priceless!

Re: Chris--All we see of the Annies are headshots. They appear to be nice-looking, well-dressed women. Where do you get the notion that they are "frumpy"?

LW 2 After the Annie's have made everyone in the country dress better can they do something about body piercing? I hate seeing pierced faces and ears. I'm not fond of the color orange, can they get people to stop wearing that?

@ Joannakathryn Re: #37

For starters, that photo hasn't been updated since these gals took over for Ann Landers. Go to Google and type in the key words "Marcy Sugar Kathy Mitchell", then click the 'images' link at the top of the page. You'll see what I mean.

.Re: Lisa, Exactly. I don't think of it as dress-to-impress. At this point it is just who I am and I feel more comfortable looking like I have made an effort to take on the day. I probably wouldn't recognize myself if I looked in a mirror without my face. It doesn't bother me or actually I don't even notice if anyone else has 'made the effort'. You are right about people treating one differently by their appearance.

The Annies, bigots that they are, look like hogs.

Re: Patty Bear
Your stories reminded me of a job interview I once had. As I was interviewing with the general manager, her boss comes in and tells her not to forget to mention that the dress code demands that I wear panty hose all the time and that I have shaved legs. The manager said nothing but one eyebrow went way up and, the minute he was gone, she said, "He sure ain't enforcing THAT one on me!

Now that was back at a time when I did wear panty hose much of the time, but shaved legs... I'm part Native, I have no body hair anywhere and I've never shaved in my life - anywhere. When I told her that, we were both laughing so hard her boss came to look!

Re: Chris--I get the same picture we see here. They're normal looking women.

@Lise Brouillette:

Ewwwwwwwww. Yuck. Gross. Blah. Barf.

We did not need to know that at all.

Re: PB

I sure as heck didn't need to know that! It just made me jealous.

LW1
I agree with the posters who view this as VERY controlling and downright abusive behavior on your mother's part. However, as other posters have pointed out - if you allow her bullying behavior to bother you and shape your actions then you are giving her the power and control she craves. If you were to react by laughing at her or just shrugging off her comments as being of no importance she will probably, like many a school yard bully, stop bothering you when she does not get the type of reaction she is after.

As @Zoe so aptly put it - your mom is a major bitch (and your dad is a wimpy milquetoast to let her get her way just because it's the path of least resistance. Something tells me this is not the only issue in which her will goes unopposed in their relationship!), but why let her get away with it and cut you off (potentially) from your dad and possibly the rest of your family if as I suspect she's managed to successfully intimidate them as well.

PB: What a fresh and intriguing insight. Totally not as if you log on every single day to say the exact same thing over and over... and over... and &^%$&^%#. Oh sorry. Almost fell asleep on my keyboard. I've been on the internet a long time and have seem some pretty funny trolls. You really need to step it up.

LW!: So how do you feel about LW1? Do you think he's done the right thing by cutting the strings with his parents? Do you believe as another commenter posted that their criticism of him has stunted his growth into an independent man? What about his visit to the girl he insulted all of those years ago. Appropriate or no?

And LW2: Do you think she has a legitimate complaint? Are people really becoming too lax in their dress? Does it bother you to see people walking around in oversized t-shirts and ripped jeans? Where do you personally draw the line?

What do you think LW3 should have done? Was just walking away the best response or should she have responded?

Inquiring minds just gotta know.

Re: Datura

Speaking of burning questions! Have you ever tried your namesake?

@Chris, #39, I do wish you hadn't recommended that...

*fanning self furiously*

...because I do declare I've started to question my orientation!

Zoe: No. Can't say that I have, though I've met a few people who did. Really bad idea. They are very pretty to look at, though.

Re: Datura

There are a bunch that grow around the office I used to work at and I was tempted a few times but apparently it's the worst "high" you can imagine so I never did. I've always wanted to test out my poppies, though! Haha.

By that I mean that I am a law-abiding citizen and that drugs are bad, mkay?

@hedgehog (33) -- Thanks! I think that's the first time anyone has suggesting memorializing something I've said. Well, my brother probably would like to have a framed print of the words that came out of my mouth once when I was just 3 years old -- we were at the house of good friends of the family for dinner, a plate of food was put down in front of me, and little cherub that I was, I said: "I'm not going to eat this f-ing $h!t." You can imagine that's a favorite story told many a time at various family gatherings. What made it all the more funny was that I promptly started eating with gusto, so clearly I didn't even really understand what the heck I had said (and fortunately, the friends in question were very close to our family and laughed when I said this, as opposed to being offended, since it was clear that I didn't know what I was saying). I have always maintained that story should embarrass my parents far more than it embarrasses me -- where, exactly, did I LEARN that language at the tender age of 3?.

And yes, I thought much the same as you did regarding Bella Amore's switch. Completely agreed with the switch but also felt it could probably be handled a bit differently. It might have been more effective to do as you suggested -- quietly take MIL aside and calmly explain that you have learned that these stories really hurt him and that it would be appreciated if she left those stories alone. But who knows? Some people do have to be hit over the head with this kind of thing, and maybe Bella Amore's MIL is one of those people.

@Joannakathryn -- you are, of course, right that since the photos of them are just head and shoulders, you can't REALLY tell what they're wearing. And yet, I have to say, I have always gotten the impression that they ARE pretty frumpy. I've only ever seen two different photos of them. The one that's on this page, and another one where they are "stacked" one over the other -- both wearing something black that comes all the way up to the tops of their necks, which, frankly, is worse than what is currently on this page. The photos used with the original Ann Landers -- even the ones from late in her career -- that similarly showed only head and shoulders manage to show her looking like a relatively fashionable woman and not at all frumpy. Honestly, if you are the co-author of a nationally syndicated column -- particularly one that is "taking over" from an icon like Ann Landers -- and you know that a photographer is coming to take your photo, you could probably manage to do a bit better than a black something-or-other that comes almost all the way up to your chin or a dark beige something-or-other that comes almost all the way up to your chin. And seriously -- you're on the phone for the photo, Marcy? Really? You're so busy and important that you couldn't take a millisecond to pose for the photo that goes with your nationally syndicated column?

Of course, the Annies' appearances -- whether frumpy or fab -- shouldn't matter. And indeed, as far as I'm concerned, I have enough legitimate reasons to complain about them that I don't generally spend a lot of time thinking about how they look. Only taking the time to do so now because it's being discussed. Otherwise, I don't give it two seconds of thought.

Lise made a great point in that LW#1 was able to stop feeling guilty for what he said as an 11-year-old AFTER he found out, from the girl he insulted, that he had NOT ruined her life. I suggest that anyone who has someone who tells you something like this (or like "Aunt Connie says you really hurt her feelings when you did or said such-and-such)----- immediately say "Gee, I better go straighten that out with her," and go to the phone. Either she never even said it, and it was your MOM'S interpretation, or she said it but asked your mom not to say anything to you.
.
Call Aunt Connie, talk to her directly, and apologize for whatever you supposedly said or did that hurt her. Nine times out of ten you'll find she never said that at all, or that your mom exaggerated things. And even if it's strangers in a restaurant that your mom tells you keep staring at you and then whispering between themselves because your hair is a weird color ------ ask who they are, and go directly to their table and confront them, nicely.
.
Chances are it could even be your mom's insecurities showing through, and she drags someone else in for support. If you insist, every time, on confronting the supposed person who said something, it will probably make her stop. Tell her you can only deal with things said or done directly to your face, by that person. S/he may be a bit pissed at getting embarrassed, and probably will raise heck with your mom for dragging her/him in. Doesn't really even matter if s/he said something or not, it will maybe stop your mom from repeating things, real OR imaginary.
.

Forgot to add, to LW#1--------Good for you for having the courage to say to your mom, "24 years is enough. STOP!!!!
.
When I was growing up, my stay-at-home mom was a pretty sloppy housekeeper. Well, let's face it, she was lazy. I would come home from school, last night's supper dishes would be soaking in the sink in what was now cold, greasy water, and my sister or I would have to wash them before we could eat supper. We had our own cow, and our own cream that we skimmed off the top and put in pitchers for use in her coffee. Because she was too lazy to clean yesterday's pitcher before putting in a new one, sometimes there would be 5 or 6 pitchers, all in various states of mold. I would clean them out, and gripe. Once there were three partially used bottles of maple syrup in the cupboard, and in an attempt to organize, I put all of them into the one container. Well, turns out, one of them was old enough that it had grown mold, which wasn't visible till it floated to the top, so all three bottles got ruined. Made her really mad, since if I'd 'left stuff alone', we'd at least have had TWO good bottles.
.
So, years after, when I was long gone to my nice, clean, organized house, I took a part-time job. My daughter was then 10, and stayed by herself three nights a week for 1 1/2 to 2 hours. So one afternoon she was fixing herself a snack, opened up the Kool-Whip, and it had mold on it. She didn't know what to do, since we sometimes had cheese that developed a bit of mold, and I'd told her it was OK to trim it off and eat the rest.
.
So, wouldn't you know it, she called my mom to ask if it was OK to toss the mold and eat the remaining Kool-Whip.
That was 36 years ago, and guess what gets brought up (as a 'joke') every holiday? I get out the Kool-Whip for the desserts, and my mom says coyly, "Now is this the kind with or without mold?" Then someone who doesn't know the story will ask, and she gets to tell them.
.
So-----last Thanksgiving was the saturation point for me. As I took out the container, I said "For those of you who don't know, 36 years ago I let my Kool-Whip get moldy, and every holiday we get to relive it. It's not my normal practice, because I've had an aversion to moldy food being left in cupboards or fridges EVER SINCE I WAS A CHILD."
And I looked directly at her as I said it. It was NOT mentioned at Christmas.
.
Now, I know the reason she kept bringing it up-------because in HER mind, that one time equated to the years and years of her doing it, and made me no better than her. But I NEVER intend to hear that story again.

@jennylee (54) -- ooooh, I like it! Not only does it give you a chance to make amends (if any amends are needed) and then move on, but it also puts mom (or other person who does this kind of thing to you) in her place! And yes, my guess would be that the mom would quickly give it a rest when she sees that you are ready and willing to confront the problem head on and resolve it.

And there's a corollary to the "I can only deal with things said or done directly to my face by the person involved," and that is "I can only apologize when I know that I've actually done something wrong." I had a college roommate who, one day, out of the blue, just stopped talking to me. I repeatedly tried to get her to tell me what it was I had done. I honestly didn't question that I had done something to tick her off, but as I tried to explain to her, "I can't change the behavior or do anything to make this better -- I can't even offer you a meaningful apology -- if I don't know what it is that I've done wrong. I can tell you that I am sorry I have upset you, but frankly, that doesn't mean a whole lot if I don't know what it is I said or did, and I'm liable to make the same mistake again in the future if I don't know what it is." She refused to tell me. I eventually gave up. I never did find out what her problem was, but I have long since come to the conclusion that it was HER problem -- I may well have said or done something wrong, but frankly SHE compounded it by refusing to give me any way to address the problem.

Just a little note here to the Annies, in case they, or anyone at their paper, ever DOES read BTL:
.
When I saw your reminder about people being sure to remember that today is Administrative Professionals Day, (used to be just plain 'Secretaries' Day'---------title got upgraded, though probably not the pay or benefits), something kept nagging in the back of my head. Surely I had seen that reminder someplace just recently.
.
Then it hit me!!!!!!
.
IT'S ON MY CALENDAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Printed by the calendar company, not written on there by me!!!!!! And has been printed on there for many, many years now!!!!!!
.
So you'll be happy to know that, even though you may have to keep reminding people to volunteer, give blood, not drive drunk when you're seventeen, not keep flammable items next to the furnace ---------- whatever other PSA they will miss if they don't read your column--------
this one is so easy!!!!! Walk to your calendar and check the date and what it says in the square enclosing the date. Can be done in 5 seconds or less----------less than it takes to read your column, that's for sure.
.
No need to thank me-------anything I can do to lighten your heavy load is thanks enough.

Re: Princess Bride
You know, at Dear Abby today there is a letter from the mother of a 17 year-old who was sexually harassed and publicly embarassed by females on the prowl older than him. You wanna see crude sexism and disgusting double standard? You go to BTL at Yahoo, you should find plenty to troll there. But I'm afraid I've got bad news for you - most of it comes from men.

And btw, "Ewwwwwwwww. Yuck. Gross. Blah. Barf" about what? You don't get it, do you? I DON'T have body hair. If I don't shave, it's because there is nothing to shave so no, there is nothing to barf about when you look at me. I guess your brain must be clogged by your own body hair, growing inwards from two directions.

@Datura #50
One of my favourite flowers.

@Lisa #52
"quietly take MIL aside and calmly explain that you have learned that these stories really hurt him and that it would be appreciated if she left those stories alone. "
Frankly, I'm sure the woman has been told many times. I've seen people like her, time and again. They'll keep pretending it's all in good fun, that they don't mean any harm and that they're just trying to joke around. But if they really did, they'd change repertoire the minute they see that nobody is laughing. No, they know exactly what they're doing, which is why they're doing it, because they're getting off on the humiliation.

I remember some time back when I was still using public transit. There was someone with a eye-seeing dog on the bus, with two people near them both, petting the dog and talking to him. They kept on doing it, in spite of a couple of nicey-nicey-nice-nice-nice people "explaining" to them that you shouldn't pet a service dog, that it confuses them. Oh, the poor dog must be so bo-o-o-ored, we're only trying to be nice, they purred in a saccharine voice.

Bu their smile wasn't nice, it was evil, and I saw this wicked gleam in their eyes. They knew exactly what they were doing, it was being done on purpose and they were having great good fun doing it. Yrrrch.

With people like that, being polite only prolongs the abuse because it allows the abuser to win some time. The only approach that (sometimes) work is Bella Amore's. That, and staying far away from them - when you can.

About the Annies' alleged frumpiness -
Generally, when people feel forced to resort to personal attacks based on appearance, it's because they don't have a legitimate argument. And even when they do have one, all the the personal attack succeeds in doing is discredit what would otherwise have been a legitimate argument. Brilliant result.

And even if they were frumpy... You know the saying: "Those who can't, teach." I'll reserve my bitching about the Annies for when they dole out asinine advice. There is plenty there to complain about, without having to call them old, fat or frumpy, whether they are or not.

Re: Lise Brouillette (#58)

I saw the same letter, too, at Dear Abby. I'm surprised that those girls weren't at least kicked out of the establishment – they were sure walking a very tight rope between getting away with it and a lifetime on the Sex Offender Registry.

Re: Bobaloo
Well, that's the sexist part: when it's a male being the object of unwanted sexual attention, too many people are chortling on his good luck. Funny that it is mostly the women who are defending him, while man, many men are being being envious and suggesting if he doesn't like it, it's because he's gay.

Lise, #21, you're brilliant. I wish you had been around when I was a kid.

Re: Lise Brouillette (#60)

Well, you can count me in as a man – a rare man – who'll defend this guy.

I just hope those girls think about what they did. Wouldn't be surprised in the least if they've done it before ... and it's going to result in big, unanticipated trouble someday and a lifetime of ruined dreams (no family, no career ... nothing). Really.

Sounded like the guy was otherwise a stud ... and he's going to get a girl someday. One of his choosing and one that will want to be around him.

Re: Jennylee #55
Thanks for adding some perspective to L1. I feel your pain btw, some of these family "stories" and "jokes" at our expense (and repeated ad nauseam) just get to be too much to take! After reading your post, I can see the possibility that the LW's mom is not necessarily as dastardly as she sounds - perhaps she's just oblivious (maybe willfully so) to the jabs she's making and thinks it's funny and/or it is more a reflection of how she feels about herself than the LW.

Lise B.:
"About the Annies' alleged frumpiness -
Generally, when people feel forced to resort to personal attacks based on appearance, it's because they don't have a legitimate argument. And even when they do have one, all the the personal attack succeeds in doing is discredit what would otherwise have been a legitimate argument. Brilliant result.

And even if they were frumpy... You know the saying: "Those who can't, teach." I'll reserve my bitching about the Annies for when they dole out asinine advice. There is plenty there to complain about, without having to call them old, fat or frumpy, whether they are or not."

You're so right about resorting to personal attacks & the Annie's sure do give out asinine advice and often - couldn't
agree with you more there!

Today it's "frumpy" but the term usually bandied about to insult the Annies is "fat" which is still the go-to insult toward women. When men (and women) want to dismiss a woman and "put her in her place"they will point out that she's "fat". The words “ugly,” “bitch” and “slut” get are used as well, but “fat” brings carries its own particular tinge of disgust and contempt.

Our culture deems fat people ugly,and worse than that, ugly through their own bad choices. Fat people are usually blamed for being fat even if it's because of a medical condition or the inability to afford nutritious food. Don't get me started on how fat is a class issue. Fat people are seen as moral failures not just aesthetic failures. It's particularly bad for a woman to get fat, because we are still the required and expected to "look good" and not "let ourselves go". Hating fat people is one of the only socially acceptable prejudices left. Being racist, ableist, homophobic and sexist is mostly frowned upon but belittling a fat person? Not so much since they're seen to deserve it.

Anyway, just wanted to add two cents about all the "fat shaming" as my teenager calls it, happening on this board lately.

LW1: omg, I am sorry this happened to you. Your parents are officially psychologically insane. What terrible parents. I hope YOU didn't lose any self-esteem over any of this. I'm sure you turned out to be a fine person. I can't believe they told you to go. Do they not love their own children? I think your parents have low self esteem, and other mental issues. No parent would do such a thing. I hope you have other family members who you can connect with.

Re: EstherGreenwood
"Don't get me started on how fat is a class issue. "
You are so right about fat being basically a class issue. As far as I'm concerned, I believe 99% of all issues can be categorised as either "class" or "gender".

Re: Last word on "sloppy" dressing -
Sure, I would prefer to see people dressed neatly and flatteringly. But I would prefer seeing people at classical concert venues dressed in halter tops, rappers' short pants and beach flip-flops, than seeing them attending only heavy metal and gangsta rap concerts. And I prefer an opera hall filled with 5,000 sloppily dressed people to one with a hundred toxedoed ones.

Re: Joannakathryn

I KNOW, right???!!!

Chris told everyone I'm cowardly. Well, to borrow from my daughter's childhood, he's a meanyhead!!!

LW1: That your mother NEVER tried to contact you in the six months since shows unequivocally that you did the right thing. That your father never tried either likely means he is so controlled he can't even go to the toilet without her permission. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you managed to encounter your father without her.

I can see my daughter-in-law doing this to my granddaughter later on. I'm just sorry I wouldn't be there to put out her lights.

Speaking of the 17 year old yesterday who was being aggressively hounded by college age women - If he had responded to the suggestive touches with a pat on the rump, you can be sure they would have acted outraged and scandalized. I can see where he felt caught between a rock and a hard place.

Lise Brouillette wrote:
You are so right about fat being basically a class issue. As far as I'm concerned, I believe 99% of all issues can be categorised as either "class" or "gender".

----

I agree wholeheartedly. That's why you never see any overweight rich, old white men.

@Clemma #66- So Nanchan, not only did your daughter CC tell you to call Maggie Saggy but now you're calling Chris a name she used as a child? Hmmm, this kind of reminds me of a story. I was in Louisville, Kentucky to run a race with 3 of my friends. One of the friends lived there while the other 3 traveled to run. We were visiting our friends mother and brother (Her brother has Downs Syndrome) when one of the ladies commented on a picture of our friend from the 80's and she said "Oh Boy, You Had Poofy Hair". Our friends brother, who has the brain of a 4 yo, got really upset and said my Sister is not a Poopy Head, you're a Poopy Head. My point is, just because a small child does this or in your case with CC being a young adult and telling you to call Maggie Saggy doesn't make it okay for you to call a poster these names. There's a difference between a small child calling someone Meanyhead and a grown a$$ woman doing it.

@Lise B (58) -- I don't think you read my whole comment at 52, because it also included this line: "But who knows? Some people do have to be hit over the head with this kind of thing, and maybe Bella Amore's MIL is one of those people." So, yes, obviously I agree with you that it's very possible (if not likely) that the MIL in Bella Amore's case was NOT going to respond well to be taken aside quietly and told that what she is saying actually hurts her son. And Bella Amore, obviously, is in a better position than hedgehog is or I am to know what kind of woman she is and what she'll respond to best, so presumably Bella Amore chose the approach she did because she believed it was the most likely to be effective. Having said that, I would almost always err on the side of at least ATTEMPTING the "kinder, gentler" approach first, and then when it doesn't work, move on to taking the hitting-them-over-the-head approach. Since it was (I am assuming) relatively early on in Bella Amore's relationship with her MIL, it's possible she did NOT really know which approach might work best, and it's possible that the "kinder, gentler" approach would have worked better. Again, who knows? Bella Amore would know best.

Re: JustBecause

Better consult your dictionary and look up the meaning of the word borrow.
Idiot.

Re: Lisa #71
Oh, you're right that the gentler approach should be used first - if only to give the benefit of the doubt. It's just that cynical me knows what that's worth in too many cases. ;-D

@Clemma #72 - Tsk tsk Nanchan! Did CC tell you to call me an idiot or did you think of that one yourself?

@Lisa #52
"quietly take MIL aside and calmly explain that you have learned that these stories really hurt him and that it would be appreciated if she left those stories alone. "
Frankly, I'm sure the woman has been told many times. I've seen people like her, time and again. They'll keep pretending it's all in good fun, that they don't mean any harm and that they're just trying to joke around.
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Well, to be fair, Lisa was responding to MY post, in which I said, "the story, AS PRESENTED HERE," had kind of gobsmacked me. Because as presented, Bella Amore did NOT tell the woman once, let alone "many times". It went right from "ha ha!" to "WTH do you think you're DOING, talking about my husband like that, you abusive old witch?"

Of course some people are thick enough that anything milder than that heated response won't get through. But since BA didn't TELL us there's been any previous request, it was an odd transition. That's all.