Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1: Really? She's supposed to help her mother, a violent, scrawny middle-aged alcoholic on crutches, find a job? Or did I read that wrong?

LW1: I woud be VERY careful of taking too much responsibility for your mother here. And taking two children on is an enormous responsibility, especially since you are most likely fairly newly married. The first thing I suggest that you do is talk to your mother's family (brothers/sisters etc) and see what they think. Maybe one of her siblings can take the children? As for your mother, I have my doubts about alcohol being her only addiction. She was married to a drug addict: the fact that she has lost so much weight is more common with drug addiction than alcoholism (alcohol has loads of calories), although I have seen very thin alcoholics. If you DO take your brothers in, do not allow your mother to live with you. Help her find a place to live nearby and insist she get treatment as a condition of you continuing to help her out. If she's drunk in your home EVER, out she goes. Now is the time to protect those kids and yes, that may mean separating them from their mother for now.

LW2: WOW! My first question is, has he been putting these decorations up every year, or was this the first time? If he's been doing it all along, why didn't you say something earlier? If not, why this year? At any rate, this is a bigger issue than a bunch of tacky holiday decorations. If ever a trip to a marriage counselor was in order, it's now.

This is a reaction to Louisa's reaction to LW1. LW1 obviously loves her mother. Her mother is in great distress and is calling for help. She herself is the one who told LW1 about her alcoholism, about the violence. To respond to LW1 as if her mother was a piece of dirt rather than a human being in great distress is unconscionable, and to add to that a disparagement because she's "on crutches" is to make every handicapped person feel as if there was something wrong with them. I don't know if taking her mother in is a good idea or not. I do think that calling professionals to help her make the right decisions about her mother and her brothers is a good idea. But I would far rather live with her mother than with someone like Louisa who is so willing to say such ugly things about another human being. There but for the grace of God go you or I.

Re: Connie Tyler

I was just thinking that the woman recently fell down the stairs and broke a bunch of bones, she drinks heavily, and she weighs 90 pounds, so maybe her primary problem isn't finding a job. Maybe she needs to heal, get sober, and eat something first.

LW1--"Or, again depending on your tolerance and economic situation, you might take all of them into your home, Mom included, while you help her find employment and a place of her own." This is among the WORST advice the Annies have ever meted out! Seriously?!? Where is the consideration for the LW's husband? If there's a sure way to cause strife and resentment in a marriage it's for the LW to move in her crazy alcoholic mother and two young sons born from a tryst with a mentally ill man. It's time for a reality check. There's nothing you can do about your mother's alcoholism. Until the woman is ready to help herself, she's helpless. As for her sons, let the authorities deal with this problem. Alert the local CPS of the situation. Do whatever you are able financially as well as emotionally if you value your marriage, your stability and your life you will under no circumstances let this dysfunctional crew move into your home!

LW2--Personally I think it utterly bizzare that your husband of 15 years suddenly dragged out his former wife's old holiday decorations and insisted on trimming the home with them. Why now? Why THIS particular holiday? Moreover, I find your husband's extreme reaction to your justified objections of ripping down the decorations and completely un-decorating the tree and then sulking off to the guest room to be completely over the top. Either you permitted some of your husband's former wife's decorations in the past or this year something has gone horribly wrong with your husband's mental stability. In addition to a heart-to-heart with your husband during which you attempt to get to the heart of the his outburst, I would also recommend a full medical workup to see if something has gone awry with your husband's mental or physical health recently. Pay particular attention to any changes in his medications recently. Good luck!

Re: LouisaFinnell
It seems strange that the Annies would suggest the mother of LW1 get a job, I agree. I mean, what kind of work can she do when she is broken at this point? She doesn't sound like a functioning addict to me and the weight issue indicates that she has some potentially serious health problems. Mentally,it doesn't seem like she would be able to hold down a job if she got one.

The Annies struck out completely on these two letters!
LW1 needs to visit the mother and her brothers to see for herself what the situation really is, then call CPS if necessary for the boys' welfare. The mother is a different story, and needs to want help before the LW can help her. In any event, moving the whole bunch in with her would be a total disaster.
It appears from the way LW2 put it that this is the first time in 15 years that the husband has dragged out his deceased wife's things. There isn't enough information here to figure out why he did that. Perhaps it's some kind of anniversary? Something reminded him of her and brought it all back in a traumatic way? We don't know, and neither do the Annies. Their advice on this one is worthless too. Something has caused the husband to act in this way -- possibly a physical or mental problem, or possibly meds. THIS iis what the LW needs to check out.

'' an iron skillet and some other old-fashioned, "manly," indestructible pieces of cookware just for his personal use''

Don't knock the iron skillet. It brings out the best cooking possible. And, why the thrift store to find one? They are readily found in any cooking utensils store. They even have them that are now pre-seasoned and easy to clean.

The best cooking there is comes from an iron skillet. They can be found in any cooking supplies store, and now come pre seasoned and easy to clean. You do not need a second hand store to finsd them. What is so bad about an iron skillet?

The Annies weren't disparaging iron skillets. They were suggesting them as cookware the husband would find it hard to destroy. As to going to a secondhand or Goodwill store to get one--Those things can cost 100s of dollars if you buy they from a cooking store. Most things at a resale shop are more like $10. If both will satisfy the couple, why spend the extra money?

LW1: Top priority must be getting the two children out of harm's way and into a home where they will receive the care and support they need. They already face an uphill battle with both parents being addicts. If you have the maturity to care for them and your husband's support, please take them in (without Mom, who clearly needs to get help before she can be a positive presence in their lives). If you or another relative can't take them in, you have a duty to inform CPS of the situation. Once the boys are safe and cared for, you can try to get help for your mother, but please do not let this detract from providing continuing support for your brothers and being a loving sister and caring adult in their lives. You have an opportunity to help them grow into healthy, functional men and to stop the cycle of addiction.

Don't mind Connie Tyler, she's one of those people who think you should take every abuse available in the name of "family".

LW1 - "Or, again depending on your tolerance and economic situation, you might take all of them into your home, Mom included, while you help her find employment and a place of her own. Perhaps other family members will offer financial assistance."

Uh, Annies? That's called ENABLING, and even the good folks at Al-Anon, which you recommended in the next breath, will say so.

The mother doesn't need a place of her own. She already has one. She also will not be able to hold down a job when she's drinking so heavily she's literally falling down drunk and breaking bones, acting out violently, scaring her own sons, etc.

The only thing that will change if LW takes her in is that she'll exhibit this behavior in the LW's house and probably drive a wedge into the LW's marriage... oh and Annies, did you NOT see that the LW is married?? She has a life of her own and she has to consider her husband in all this!

You cannot make an alcoholic stop drinking. They have to hit bottom hard enough to want to turn around and usually the only way that happens is if everyone backs away and stops trying to help/enable the addict. If I was the LW, I would contact a family attorney who practices in her mother's state and ask what to do to protect her brothers. Honestly I'm surprised after the brothers called 911 that state services didn't step in right there and then.

LW2 - What registered with me is that the LW said they've both been widowed and the decorations her husband brought in the house are from over 40 years ago. Is it possible he is developing dementia?

I don't think a counselor is in order yet, not until she gets him to a doctor to rule out any neurological changes. Even if he's had an "anger problem" before, if what he did this holiday season is new, or if his reaction is more extreme than anything prior, then something medical may be going on that needs addressed. If it turns out his grey matter's fine then yes, I would say there's a major communication breakdown and someone neutral needs to get involved given it's been over a month now and he's still in a black cloud about it.

LW3 - Laura, it wasn't the Annies who were making comments about iron skillets. It was the LW.

I agree iron skillets are awesome... but why knock getting one from a thrift store, especially when a new one might run as high as $60 in some places, and the cheaper ones might be, well, cheap? At least if you get one from the thrift store it's guaranteed to be a bargain, and there's a good chance the former owner kept it well seasoned. Plus, as my husband says, the older ones make better food because they're so well-used and broken in they add their own something special to a dish (and no, I don't mean rust, LOL!).

@Louisa I understood perfectly what you meant in your post, having had the same thought myself, as being critical of the Annie's advice, not the LW's mother. I really don't know how Connie Tyler could have read it any different.

The Annie's advice (or lack thereof) is so bad AGAIN today. Maybe Creator's can set it up so that the LW's just bypass the Annie's altogether and go directly to BTL. I don't always agree with everything said there, but at least there are real advice and opinois there.

The Annie's advice (or lack thereof) is so bad AGAIN today. Maybe Creator's can set it up so that the LW's just bypass the Annie's altogether and go directly to BTL. I don't always agree with everything said there, but at least there are real advice and opinois there.

Re: C Meier

No kidding! I felt my stomach knot up reading their advice to LW1 today, it was SO awful. They not only leave out important information when they publish letters (as some BTL who ended up being LWs have attested), but what little they do publish, they ignore half of it. How on earth do they manage to keep their jobs?

What do you want to bet in a couple weeks they'll publish a follow-up letter in which someone takes them to task for what they said and they reply with a defensive answer standing by it? Seen them do that before too...

Ugh, and double ugh!

Yeah, looks like the Annies are smoking something again, or maybe it's those typewriting monkeys-what lousy advice, for LW1 anyway. Really, this woman has addictions and has one foot in the grave practically, and the daughter is supposed to take her in and help her find a job???? That's just plain stupid! Take care of the boys first; she may not be able to do much with mom, what with her drinking and probable drug use. Some things are over the average person's head.

Did any of you read Dear Abby? Her advice to the first letter didn't sound good, either. That wife has some kind of phobia and I think the husband should insist on her finding out what's going on. And then cooking when she's not around too.

Hey, Bitey, think the Annies need a visit from you. ha <:-}}}}}>-< (those are your frilly Sunday scales)

What does Tex think, by the way?

One of my most cherished kitchen tools is a cast iron skillet I bought at a garage sale for a buck.

Don't diss those bargains! My pan was sold by a son who had no idea how valuable and old that skillet was, he hadn't bothered to clean it properly which was ok with me. Now, if my boyfriend were to take soap and water to it..... there may be words. Luckily, he's a great cook himself and knows how to treat kitchen equipment.

Too bad the original LW couldn't get off her high horse enough to try to EDUCATE her husband instead of beating him over the head with the frying pan to prove her point. Noone likes to be preached at.

It made me ill to read the advice Desperate in Colorado.Please stay out of it or you will be sucked down the crazy hole.You must try to love your family at a distence.Your only 23 and have a chance to live a normal life.If you get involved with this,you will never have a life again.Take it from me. I got out with the grace of God.Call CPS give them the story and let them do what they have to do.Do not take anyone in and stay out of it.You may not understand what im telling you,but you will years from now.God Bless

LW1 - Talk to an attorney and social services in your mom's area. You and your husband should see what you can do to get the boys away from your mom. Maybe you become guardian maybe you don't but you need to seriously look at some options. Good luck to you.


LW2 - Your husband may have anger issues but you don't get off scott free either. You gently told him your were insulted. Not a good way to put it. He's a widower and you basically insulted his first wife. He doesn't sound real stable and maybe you need to look beyond your little wounds and see what's going on with the man. This isn't just about Christmas decorations. Too bad you can't see that.

LW3 - You sound kind of mean and nasty. Lighten up.

Re: jar8818 - Tex here. Hi ya. Yeah, Abby was off the mark and so were the Annies. You are right on target and who cares what Rick thinks. He's a nice enoughg guy but not the brightest pup in the kennel if ya know what I mean. He can't even lick his own balls.....he tries...but just can't do it. Pitiful. ooooolh here he comes...............

@ Tex

"He can't even lick his own balls.....he tries...but just can't do it."

That conjured up an interesting visual... ;-P

Re: Chris - It ain't pretty. I hear him....gotta go

T

Wow Annies. You are off base at times but here you aren't even in the ballpark! A young , I assume newly married woman should never EVER be obligated to take in a violent drunk...mother or not. SInce alcoholics rarely if ever stop drinking from outside influences she should seek help for her brothers. Depending on their ages and/or dispositions she might be able to foster them until mom gets the help she needs. You can try to point mom in the right direction but under your roof is not the answer.

LW1: Your mother is an unfit mother to those boys. You need to get custody of those boys. If you don't want to then just call child protection services. Your mother is not a victim. She's the perp. Deal with it.

LW2: You don't want "his" past in "our" home - what a load of crap! Did you think you married a blank slate? You're a moron. You should apologize to your husband and get some therapy.

LW3: I think you're being too reasonable. What kind of moron can't cook a meal without destroying the cookware? I would ban him from the kitchen and tell him, "fire bad."

LW1: What Chris and Jackie said sounds right to me. Annies, you are WAY off base on this one!!! LW should not invite dysfunction and melodrama into her home. She should take responsibility for her brothers ONLY if her husband fully supports the idea. These unfortunate children would definitely benefit from a stable, two-parent home, but LW may or may not be in a position to take on this enormous responsibility. I'd recommend having them spend a few weeks together, preferably while Mom is in rehab before making any huge comittment.

LW2: Maybe LW's hubby was just feeling nostalgic. I think LW overreacted. And then LW's husband overreacted. Counseling could help. Husband sounds like he needs anger management. Good luck with that.

LW3: The original LW was more concerned with having pristinely perfect looking cookware than appreciating that her husband was willing to cook. HIs and hers pans might be a good solution. It all depends upon how her husband would react to that idea. It's likely that he doesn't feel appreciated so I am not sure this idea would fly.

Rick:

The people in letter 2 have been married 15 years; that hardly makes him a widower anymore.

But his reaction was strange, to say the least. That house is hers too and she had a right to say something about what he was doing. Sounds like he would have reacted no matter how she did it.

Does anyone else get sick when the Annies always say, talk to them "sweetly"? Or is it me? I'm not saying to clobber a person, but just talking to them and being plain when it's called for. Depends on the problem. It irritates me when they say "sweetly" for some reason.

Tex: (whispering) Rick sounds kind of....weird.

Re: PuaHone

"The original LW was more concerned with having pristinely perfect looking cookware than appreciating that her husband was willing to cook."

If I recall the original LW's husband seemed completely devoid of common sense in the kitchen, including using plasticware on the stovetop burners. Don't know about you but I prefer not to have noxious fumes and chemicals "infused" with my dinner.

I don't think expecting him to use proper dishes, utensils, etc. when cooking is unreasonable. Even my husband, who uses our steak knives to tighten screws around the house (I kid you not!), would agree.

LW2: Oh my gosh. There are so many things wrong with this letter I don't know where to begin. You are both widowed, which means that you BOTH have baggage. He remembers happy times in his past, and thought that bringing out old decorations would be a nice way to incorporate you into his life. Doesn't she have any happy memories from her old life, too?? GET OVER YOURSELF and realize the man you married is NOT fresh out of the egg! Dear heavens! He has a past and wants to include you with it! GROW UP. Women like this make me sick. Jealous over a dead spouse. For crying out loud!

Re: jar8818 - So once a guy with a dead wife remarries he's not a widower anymore? Lik the first wife never happened? That's weird. Speaking of weird. . . . .Don't pay attention to Tex. That dog lies like a rug. Sure he can type and yes he makes a great Caesar Salad but you can't trust him as far you you could throw him. I most certainly can lick my balls. Good grief. Who can't?

LW1-
Frankly, even if she was ready to turn her life around and willing to accept that sobriety is a sine-qua-non condition, I do NOT suggest that the daughter take in someone who gets so drunk that she falls downstairs and breaks bones, drives stone drunk and gets violent. Not to mention that she is in no condition to find, let alone keep a job. There go the Annies being rosy-mamby-pamby flakily optimistic again.

LW1, I DO suggest that you take in your brothers, but this is something you have to discuss with your husband first. Perhaps there is another family member who can. As in, now. Because one thing is for sure, Mama is in no condition to look after them at present. If there is no one in the immediate family to take them in and/or if mama won't see reason and give them up, CALL CPS. If something was to happen because you did nothing, you'd never forgive yourself.

If she wants to move in closer, fine, but let Drink-Drank-Drunk Annie stay somewhere else during her recovery. Especially in the early stages, alcoholics who are just recently on the wagon WILL fall off it quite easily. Not to mention that she was married to a drug addict? Well. We don't know if booze is her only substance abuse. These kids need stability, seeing that they probably don't remember the last they had any. If ever.

That is, IF mama even chooses to shape up, which is not something you can force her to do. Sadly. But the kids need to be protected.

P.S.: Hm, Annies? Since when did you get into the business of advocating ENABLING? You've given some good-enough-but-incomplete, or some wishy-washy advice in the past, but this... this is just plain DANGEROUS. The woman has admitted being violent and driving drunk and you suggest that her daughter take her in? Are you drunk yourselves, or something? If she was to follow your rotten advice, it's just a matter of time before she's the next victim of domestic abuse and within six months, her husband is out the door and asking for divorce. WHAT COULD YOU BE THINKING? Good flamin' grief, man.

@Louisa
I agree with C Meier. I don't see how your mention of crutches (a perfectly normal implement for someone with several bones broken) is in any way ridiculing the mother. It IS ridiculous, however, for the Annies to suggest that someone drunk and on crutches should be fit to go looking for or holding a job.

LW2-
I don't understand this - you've been married 15 years? Is this the first time your husband visits your Christmas with the ghost of his wife past, or has this been going on for 15 years? Something is missing here.

Well. Regardless of the answer, you might have had more success if you had chosen to make the condition of the decorations an issue instead of their origin, and suggested that they be used on the "secondary" tree in the den or guest room - whatever.

This being stated, his reaction was and still is way over the top, and definitely there is more to it than first appears. Apart from the fact that you need to figure out what's really going on here (Early dementia? Bad reaction to new meds? He wants to divorce and is looking to pick a fight?), I think you need help learning some negociating techniques of your own, and your husband needs to learn how to control his temper. You won't do this on your own. I suggest a visit to the doctor for a complete check-up and joint counselling - in that order. As for the counsellor, if won't go, go alone.

LW3-
@Neva
Nobody's knocking cast iron skillets here. They're being suggested because they're indestructible.

I personally know they're the best because that and stainless steel is all I've been using for the past 40 years. Teflon, blpblpblpblpblp. Don't need, don't want. And yeah, cast iron skillets are very inexpensive even brand new and it's not worth it to have to scrub someone else's grime just to possibly save a few cents. Other pots and pans yes, but not cast iron.

@Laura
Everything is extravagantly expensive at a cooking store. Walmart, Zellers and Canadian Tire are more likeky places where to buy stuff like that at a price that makes sense and they go on sale. I've been using my own 12-piece set for all these years, but if I ever needed a new one, this would be one of the few things I would want to buy new.

I'm a thrift shop patron myself, but I don't want used cast iron: I find that most people don't know how to or want to bother maintaining it properly. If you're lucky enough to find a used one in decent condition, fine, but in the hundreds of garage sales, flea markets, church bazaars and thrift shops I've seen so far in my day, I can count the times I've seen a (badly) used cast iron skillet that didn't have 1/4 inch of grime needing to be scraped off - eeeeeww. Not to mention slave work. Not worth it.

@Laura & PS
$100? $60? This is not the kind of prices I remember seeing here. Unless they've changed recently... Ok, you two have gotten me curious now. I'll start paying attention to the sales, just to check.

@ ALL

I've just e-mailed the Annies with my P.S. to my LW1 comment. Gang, let's blitzgrieg them on this, shall we? Wishy-washy advice is one thing, advice that puts anyone in danger is another. They shouldn't get away with this.

I'm with Jar. "Sweetly" makes me want to hurl. How about "calmly"? LW2 said she "gently" told him, yet she gets accused of being jealous and overreacting. (After 40 years, the ratty condition of the decorations was probably more at issue than jealousy.) She should be able to tell her husband what she does and doesn't like in her own home without being insulted and without precipitating a major tantrum. The real question isn't whether she's justified in feeling insulted but why her husband suddenly brought out old decorations after 15 years of marriage and threw an abusive fit when his wife told him what she thought. Still sulking after a month? This goes beyond "anger issues" (the word you're looking for is "problems," folks). Dementia is a possibility, but whatever the cause, she should not put up with it. If he won't see a doctor, it's time to take a walk, because he's not going to stop on his own.

LW2- Agree with btl posters who said that if this is the first time your hubby has drug the old decorations out and demanded they be used, he could easily have a problem with his health or his meds or both. Otherwise, I don't know why it's taken him 15 years to discover who the queen bee of his life is supposed to be. You don't want "his past life" in your oops "our" home? Really? Are his relatives allowed in the house? Any friends from before you met? Did you buy everything new when you got married ? No childhood mementos for anyone? No graduation pictures, no family pictures, no souvenirs of anything that happened before you married? Because his world was supposed to start new when you entered his life? You're 'insulted' by being reminded he celebrated Christmas before you showed up? Grow up. If you marry an adult, esp an adult who is old enough to have been married before you, he has a past, & his past is what made him who he is. His reaction was ridiculous and childish, but I can't help wondering if he feels so backed into a corner that it's the only reaction he can think of.

@jar8818: I read Dear Abby! I had to laugh when I read today's Annies Mailbox, after reading Dear Abby. I wonder if the husband of the LW wrote in to Dear Abby!

Re: Casey

LOL! I was wondering the same thing!

Rick:

Yes he was a widower, but he's been remarried for 15 years, that's quite a while. And this is his current marriage, does the first one trump it? That's news to me. She was married before too, don't forget.

(Makes me think of my mom-dad died some months after their 40th anniversary and when what would have been their 50th came around, she was working for a friend at the time and kept dropping hints about it, so the friend arranged a party for her at a restaurant. I didn't go, cause I thought, it's been 10 YEARS!! When do you stop counting?? I'm sorry you didn't make it to 50, but come on, let it go.)

And I don't really think the second wife wants him to forget his first wife, but 40 year old decorations are not gonna look good, and he didn't ask her what she thought. Very much amiss here. Plus his history with anger, so I say it's mostly in his court. She did say she thought he was trying to flaunt it, but why, I'd like to know.

Rick:

"Who can't?" Weeeeeeeeelllllllll, those who don't have b......s?

Bitey Fish hates iron skillets!

Bitey,may you alway avoid iron skillets and the mouths of dogs--especially male dogs.

Re: jar8818

Disagree about old decorations not looking good.

Some of my most cherished holiday decorations were handmade by my mother when she was a little girl and she's in her 80s now.

Pretty shallow of you to even go there, I"m surprised at you.

@jar8818 - I get what you are saying about the Annie's suggesting LWs talk to someone sweetly - as if they want you to coo at the person like you would a baby. Ugh!

As an aside to you - I had my two day assembly this past weekend. It was wonderful!

i'm using my great-grandmother's cast iron skillets and my granddaughter is interested in learning how to cook with them [i'll wait until she is a little taller before i attempt to get her near a stove-top]. but they are still in good condition and likely to remain so. i wouldn't trade them for any other kind of frying pan.

when i was in high school, my mother replaced our christmas angel with one that was made from wax and gold foil paper. that was nearly 50 years ago. we continued to use that angel well into my 50s. i hung on to it because the angel looked like my mother in her wedding picture. the gold foil paper didn't fare too well in the attic, even though it was carefully wrapped. after a few years of looking at our tree-top looking less than its best, even i had to admit the angel was beyond any care and cleaning i could give it. i put it back in the attic and replaced it. my suggestion to the letter writer is, if the decorations can possibly be cleaned or repaired, why not incorporate them into your decorations next year?

@Michael - Glad to see you post! I was wondering where you were.

@jar8818

Actually, all the decorations for my (also vintage rubber tree) are 50s and 60s vintage and I love them. But then, I love kitsch. Not everybody does. And also yes I love kitsch, but when it's in good condition, not looking dingy, broken down and good for the garbage. We don't know what conditions these were in. Like I said in my own post, she should have concentrated on that and made THAT an issue rather than who they had belonged to.

His reaction was and still is way over the top, but hers was heavy-handed as well - like a cast iron skillet...

@Michael

Welcome back (I was beginning to worry)! And a perfect grand entrance it was too!

@Nanchan - I don't know who appointed you den mother, but cut it out. Jar8818's comment was not shallow and even it was, what makes it your place to chastise her. Get over yourself, really.

@Lise - the LW indicated the decorations were in poor condition. She described them as "They were dog-eared, tattered, yellowed calico fabric items" - I assume she meant yellowed with age. You are correct though, she should have made that the focus instead of her husband's deceased wife.

Good LORD. So LW1's mother is a violent drunk who doesn't work and is a danger to her young sons, and the Annies recommend that LW take them all into her home?

Annies, are you FUCKING NUTS? Do you even read these letters? Maybe it's time for you two to hang it up and give someone else the job. I'm totally serious.

LW1, call CPS. Take custody of your brothers if you can. See if you can get Mom committed for being a danger to herself. (The record of broken bones and current physical condition might be sufficient.) If not, then as crappy as it is, you need to let Mom find her own way, or not, as she will. But please get those kids out of there. Otherwise it might not be her broken bones you have to deal with, but theirs. Or she might drive drunk with them in the car and kill them, and/or someone else. Please take action.

LW3 and buying pans from Goodwill: When your husband destroys your cookware through poor use, you don't run out to Williams Sonoma and drop 80 bucks on a new one. You go to Goodwill and drop $2 on a new one and then you don't care if it gets wrecked. DUH. Then you buy the $80 one for yourself and forbid him from using it. Unless, of course, you're made of money and can afford expensive new pans every month. (And hey, some people are.) If so, then by all means stimulate the economy. But common sense dictates that you don't buy nice new stuff for somebody who doesn't take care of it.

Re: jar8818 - Oh yeah. Good point. ;-)

Re: jar8818 ~~ Bitey Fish does NOT wear frilly Sunday scales. Bitey says "harumph" at the very idea!

That is a picture of Bitey Fish with the hackles up because people won't stop talking about IRON SKILLETS AND COOKWARE!!!

Michael, I too, am glad to see you back!

Mary Ann,Sharnee,and Lise, thank you!

Re: Michael ~~~ Bitey Fish is also glad to see you. Bitey Fish is smiling sweetly at you with all 85 teeth.

Re: Piranha in Pajamas- I'm glad to see you that you're back too,Bitey.

Re: Michael ~~ Bitey Fish wonders if you are smiling, and how many teeth you have?

Re: Piranha in Pajamas- Yes,I'm smiling,Bitey.

Re: Michael ~~ Bitey Fish is glad you are smiling! But Bitey Fish notices that you have been evasive about the tooth question.

Re: Piranha in Pajamas-humblest of apologies, dear bitey. i thought you knew i am a vegetarian. i fry onions, not fish.

Very interesting BTL reactions.. Was just wondering who is supposed to help the 'problem people'? Their families should not obviously as it would disrupt their peaceful lives. They can't help themselves because they would not have become a problem if they had that sense. Probably it should be the government but government is made by people and why should they feel compassion or have patience with people who have been abandoned by their families.

LW1 - If your mother is admitting her alcoholism and opening up about the depth of her situation then she may be at a place to seek help. You are not responsible for her recovery she is. You can ask her for specifics about the help that she wants. You can be of most help by not enabling her addiction but supporting her recovery. Her head is not clear now to say the least Maybe you could help by using your clear head to locate options for treatment for her. Once you present her with the options and help take care of her responsibilities while she is actively seeking help, The choice is up to her at that time. If treatment centers are not an option, she may find help thru one of the many Alcoholic's Anonomous meetings likely in your area, If she is willing help is out there and once she stops drinking a whole new life may await her and the whole family. In short, you can hold the door open and show her where the road starts but she has to take the steps herself.

Re: surefoot

"Who is supposed to help the 'problem' people"?
The only people who can help the problem people are the problem people themselves. You CANNOT help someone who doesn't help herself. This is a do-it-yourself project. All the "second chances", rehab programs and therapists are gonna do diddley-squat until the person in need of help really wants to change. If you had had ANY intimate encounter with someone like that, you would have learned that at your expense.

The only thing the LW can do is get her brothers out of there so they don't get crippled or killed in one of her drunken stupors. It's sad and tragic and INCREDEBLY frustrating to witness someone you care about destroy themselves, but that's the way it is. Sorry - trust me, I, perhaps more than anybody, sure wished it was otherwise.