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Dear Annie: My husband and I have been happily married for 15 years and recently decided to try an open-marriage lifestyle. We are doing this with full honesty and respect for each other.
The main problem is that the dating success is not equal. I …Read more.
Who's Not Following Up on Child Abuse Reports?
Dear Annie: I am a single mom of a 4-year-old boy who is being abused by my ex-husband and his wife. After a visit, he comes home bruised and scratched with black eyes. He has had scabies more than a dozen times. The worst thing is that my son was …Read more.
Happy Mother's Day
Dear Readers: Happy Mother's Day. Please phone your mother, grandmother, mother-in-law, stepmother or foster mother and wish them the best. And our special good wishes to all the new mommies who are celebrating their very first Mother's Day. Also, …Read more.
Thank You, Mom and Dad
Dear Annie: I am writing a long overdue thank-you note to my parents. They are faithful readers of your column. Mom and Dad, I am thankful that:
You stood your ground and did not give in to me, even when I threw fits and demanded my way.
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The Kids Might Not Be All Right
Dear Annie: My daughter, "Ashley," is divorced and has four children. She has had numerous volatile boyfriends. The last guy sliced the tires on her car.
Ashley says I need to mind my own business, so I have been quiet about her poor choices. But her latest guy is listed in the state registry of sex offenders for molesting an 11-year-old girl when he was 19. He served two years in prison and claims he is innocent. Ashley has been letting the guy stay at her house. He is unemployed and doesn't need to be anywhere.
I am frightened for my grandchildren. I called the police, but they said there is no prohibition on having him live in a home with young children. The children's fathers have been uninvolved and disinterested, but I'm wondering whether I should notify them of what's going on. I also have considered calling the local child protection agency, but I don't want them to take the children away from Ashley.
If I do any of these things, she may never speak to me again, and I might not get to see the kids. I will feel terrible if this guy harms those children. What can I do? — Sitting on the Edge
Dear Sitting: You must put the children's welfare above your relationship with Ashley. Call the local child protective agency and report the situation. They will investigate to see whether there is cause to remove the children. If so, it's likely the kids would be placed with Ashley's nearest relative: you. It also could be a wake-up call for Ashley to get the guy out of her house and pay more attention to the consequences of her choices.
Dear Annie: I received an invitation to a birthday party and was asked to bring a covered dish. I always thought the hostess furnished whatever refreshments were to be served. I must have slept through the new etiquette rules. If a hostess can't afford to furnish refreshments, there should not be a party. Am I right? — Some Etiquette, Please
Dear Some: If someone offers to bring a dish, it's OK for the hostess to accept, but including a dish assignment with the invitation is inappropriate. People should have the parties they can afford. Most guests are perfectly happy attending a birthday party where only cake and ice cream are served.
Dear Annie: "Mom" thinks her 11-year-old is too young for sex information. As a teacher with 25 years of experience in a rural town, I have found that most parents are stunned to find out how openly the kids talk about sex in school.
I urge all parents to be sure they have the final birds-and-the-bees talk with their children before they begin elementary school. That's what I did with my daughter. We used examples from nature for her preschool sex education. When her friends later talked about sex, she felt free to come to me for clarification. We taught her: Don't lie down with your boyfriend, don't take any clothes off, no "fooling around" in the bathing suit area, and don't unzip anything. She saved her virginity for marriage.
There are now five types of STDs that are drug resistant. For this generation, extramarital sexual activity is extremely dangerous. It is possible to teach children to delay sex until marriage by putting the focus on "What is the wise thing to do?" rather than what is right or wrong. Teach your children that it is wise to first get an education, then a job, then marriage, then children.
I have volunteered for 10 years with a program that teaches kids non-judgmental education about how humans are sexual beings in all aspects of life. Most children are incredibly receptive and innately recognize why being wise is beneficial. If we are not allowed to speak to these kids until high school, they chide us for not telling them earlier. — Proactive Tennessee Sub
Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please email your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 737 3rd Street, Hermosa Beach, CA 90254. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
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95 Comments | Post Comment
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LW3: "She saved her virginity for marriage."
This is hysterical! She actually believes this?! LOL! Either LW3 is 100+ years old, or she's the most gullible teacher and parent on planet earth. Perhaps both?
Comment: #1
Posted by: Johanna
Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:22 PM
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Longtime lurker, first time commenter. I wanted to respond specifically to Johanna's post, comment #1. I am a university-educated, career-minded and independent woman in my early 20s. I am also deeply committed to my faith. As a religious young woman, I did indeed save my virginity for marriage, as did my husband. While I have no idea what LW3's situation is, nor do I know her daughter's, I believe that there are many young people like myself who do consider such relations sacred. Perhaps LW3's family is equally as devoted to their beliefs (whether religiously motivated or not) as I am. I find it somewhat insulting that you think only centenarians or gullible fools would believe that a young person would save their virginity for their spouse to whom they are legally wedded.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Teacher89
Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:54 PM
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That said, Johanna, I typically enjoy your comments and find you to have intelligent insights in many of your responses! Thank you for disagreeing on a point with me that I felt strongly enough about that I could finally join in the community here. :)
Comment: #3
Posted by: Teacher89
Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:09 PM
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Re: Teacher89
....and, I might believe you if you hadn't chosen that username. Or, for that matter, felt the need to point out your education level or "career-mindedness" as if that's somehow relevant? I get it. You're important and wise beyond your years, right? Why the desperate need to prove your credibility? Heh.
I do believe many people choose abstinence until marriage. I don't believe they do it because their parents "teach" them to. I also don't believe mature adults in loving, committed relationships headed for marriage talk about their sex life - active or not - with their Mommies. If they say anything at all, it's only what Mommy wants to hear. End of discussion. A relationship builds trust and intimacy in private moments, so broadcasting a play-by-play to ANYONE outside the relationship erodes the intimacy.
On the flipside, teenagers are likely to discuss such things with their parents when pushed....were you a teen when you got married, Teacher89?
Comment: #4
Posted by: Johanna
Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:27 PM
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Re: Teacher89
Oh, and BTW - my comment about age had nothing to do with younger people thinking sex isn't sacred enough to "save their virginity for their spouse to whom they are legally wedded." Saving yourself for great love and commitment is something I think every generation has aspired to.
Look up the date when The Pill was legalized. Before then, getting pregnant on your first time was a very real possibility. Women born before then? Having sex before marriage was a giant risk that could result in pregnancy, and, kicked out of their families and/or forced to give their baby up for adoption. Different times....gratefully.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Johanna
Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:38 PM
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Kathy & Marcy, unfortunately, you are misinformed. Authorities will NOT remove children from a home simply because a registered sex offender is in the home. They probably won't even investigate. I know this because my sister stayed with the man who sexually abused her daughter from about age 5 - 14 (forced her to perform oral sex on him). During a brief period that my sister separated from him, she conceived another baby girl with a different man. By the time she gave birth, she was back with the sex offender (who was on probation) and put his name on the baby's birth certificate as the father. Later, the sex offender went to prison for violating his probation, because he was caught living at my sister's place while he wasn't supposed to have contact with my niece that he had sexually abused. Then, because my sister wanted child support, she had a paternity test done to prove that the baby's father was the other man. When the sex offender had served his full term and was released from prison, he was no longer prohibited from being around the niece that he had abused, and my sister let him move back in with them. Even when the little girl's father expressed concern about the sex offender being around his young daughter, especially when the sex offender had made provocative comments about her, the authorities still said they could not remove the little girl from the home unless she ever reported that he had touched her. Sadly, once a sex offender has served his or her full term and isn't considered a high risk for reoffending (my sister's husband was considered medium risk by the justice system), they are no longer prohibited from being around children.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Kaycee
Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:43 PM
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I wasn't a teenager when I got married, I was 21 and in my 3rd year of college. While this may seem too young to many on this board, I did go on to finish my college education and begin a career in teaching. I wasn't trying to desperately prove my credibility, though I can see why you would think so, and I apologize for coming off as one of "those" internet folk. :) I did, however, want to express the fact that I wasn't old or gullible. As far as my choice of username, I prefer to retain some level of privacy and so picked one fitting of my profession, yet generic enough not to be necessarily linked to my personal accounts. I understand your skepticism however. So many people misrepresent themselves on the internet that it can be difficult to sort out those who are telling the truth from those who are less than honest.
I also understand what you are saying about adults not discussing their sex lives with their parents. I certainly did not, do not, and will never! At the risk of sounding like an immature teenager, ewww. ;) While I got a brief version of "the talk," I had a much better teacher - the real-life regret and sorrow of people dear to me because of the decision to participate in sex before or outside of marriage. Perhaps LW3's daughter was a teen when she was married, LW3 pushed her to discuss such topics, and thus the daughter shared this information? Whether the daughter told the mother what she wanted to hear or told the truth is neither here nor there, but I don't think there is any reason to immediately assume the daughter was lying.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Teacher89
Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:46 PM
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Re: Johanna (#5)
Thank you for the clarification. I'm sorry to have assumed offense when there was none intended. You know what they say about assuming... it makes something out of me that I prefer not to use in polite conversation. :) I know that becoming pregnant before The Pill was a very real possibility and that pregnancy outside of marriage carried unfortunate stigmas and extreme consequences - many of which still exist in today's society. Hopefully we can all learn to be a little more compassionate towards those who make choices different from our own, or who have those choices made for them, and who lead different lives. I know that is something I need to work on personally.
As an aside, I apologize for being so dominant in my first few posts on this forum. I wasn't meaning to post quite so often in such a short amount of time! :/
Comment: #8
Posted by: Teacher89
Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:55 PM
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LW1: The Annies are right: You need to worry less about your relationship with your daughter and more about protecting your grandchildren. Call CPS and see if there's anything they or you can do. Let the children know that they can talk to you about anything. And by all means, tell the children's fathers. They deserve to know what's going on, and they may be in a better position to help those poor kids.
LW2: You've never been invited to a potluck party before? That alone is sad. If you can get over yourself, you might find that you enjoy it. All kinds of people throw all kinds of parties. A potluck isn't about bailing on your responsibilities as a host; it's about people coming together to share their efforts and their favorite recipes, and everyone gets to try more dishes than they would otherwise. Since it's a birthday party, the host will probably provide cake and drinks, not to mention the venue, the dishes and flatware, party favors, and so on. Fun is more important than etiquette, especially at a birthday party. Lighten up!
LW3: Great letter! More schools need programs like yours. BTW, Johanna, you CAN teach kids to abstain until marriage, or at least until they're no longer kids and are more able to handle safe sex and contraceptives. The abstinence-only, Jesus-wants-you-to-be-a-virgin BS doesn't work, but consistent, fact-based education and open communication do. Good judgment and self-control are skills you can pass on to your kids, but only if you avoid the extremes of naivete and cynicism.
Comment: #9
Posted by: Baldrz
Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:08 PM
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Ladies, ladies...enough bashing. The bottom line is that even though we think of them as our babies, they're growing up and need to be better informed. Kids hormones are kicking in earlier than ever; we have a current generation of kids that thinks oral sex "isn't really sex" and can't truly comprehend the consequences of their behavior. I'm hopeful that my child will refrain from sex until he's married, but I'm not naive...if he does, I want him to protect himself. I would much rather buy him a box of condoms than a package of diapers. Or have him contract an STD and not tell me, delaying treatment. Or die of AIDS. We need to be honest with them, however uncomfortable it may be.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Jan Merzlak
Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:14 PM
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Kaycee, CPS is not a monolithic national agency; they are state agencies, and within each state there are various offices. Each state has its own laws and rules, and although they're all underfunded, some have more resources than others. It's true that not all sex offenders are prohibited from living with children, but that doesn't mean CPS can't investigate, and they can help the grandmother figure out what her rights are and what she can do. Still, the kids' fathers might be her best bet. One or all of them might be able to get the dirtbag out of the house.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Baldrz
Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:17 PM
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Lw1 - ultimately there may not be much you can do, but you can try. Also try to maintain an open line of communication with your granddaughters, so that they might come to you if something happens.
Lw2 - omg such a big deal! Good lord. I wish I had your problems. Bring a dish and stop being such a grumpy old loser. You might have a good time if you get over it.
Lw3 - you may have gotten lucky because that is the kind of teaching that has often resulted in irresponsible teenage sex. And yes, it is quite possible that your daughter had sex before she got married and just didnt tell you.
Comment: #12
Posted by: Zoe
Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:25 PM
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* * * * PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT * * * *
LW3 refers to the first letter on 21 January 2013.
Comment: #13
Posted by: Miss Pasko
Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:07 AM
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Most of my friends don't have a lot of money, since most of us are either just starting out or were hit hard with layoffs. Generally we have potluck parties and I've never had complaints, since it's upfront to begin with. It's a good way to have a full party spread without any one person having to foot the entire bill. I generally will make a main dish and people will bring whatever they want or can afford. If someone considers this rude, then they certainly don't have to come.
Comment: #14
Posted by: wyn667
Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:02 AM
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LW3- "Five types of STDs that are drug resistant"? Source please? As far as I know only gonorrhea has become drug-resistant, which is bad enough I suppose, but that's not five. And please just admit that you're preaching religious-based abstinence, which is fine as long as you call it what it is. But there are other ways to be "wise" and take responsibility for one's sexual health, like knowing your partner, getting tested and using condoms. (LW3 also reminded me of how Jessica Simpson's father worked in the fact that she was a virgin into the text of her wedding ceremony. Ick, gross. And she certainly didn't save it for her second marriage as she now has a baby and another on the way with her fiancee).
Comment: #15
Posted by: Lucy
Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:18 AM
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LW1 - Baldrz is correct. The CPS regulations, as well as the laws, vary from state to state. In some areas it is illegal for a registered sex offender to live in the same household with minor children who are not his own. The welfare of the children should be the LW's first concern, and she should check out the laws iin her jurisdiction to see what steps, if any, she can take legally to insure their safety. In any event, she should remain as close as possible to her grandchildren to make sure that they will report any inappropriate behavior to her if and when it happens.
.
LW2 - There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking in advance for the people attending the party to bring a dish. It's done all the time in most areas. If the LW is "offended" by this so-called breach of etiquette then no one is forcing her to attend. She needs to get over herself, and the Annies are dead wrong on this one.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Kitty
Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:39 AM
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LW3 - I have no knowledge of how many STD's are drug resistant, but I do agree with the LW that children should be given as much information on the subject of sex as is appropriate for their age, and that parents shouldn't push questions aside or give unrealistic answers to their children's questions (such as the "stork" story). Children are becoming aware of sexuality at a much younger age than they were years ago, and as soon as they begin to ask questions they should be given correct age-appropriate information.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Kitty
Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:45 AM
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Welcome to BTL, Teacher!
LW1: When it comes to the welfare of people who can't defend themselves (children, emotionally or physically challenged, the elderly), you have an obligation to try to protect them as much as you can.
Without direct knowledge of actual abuse, you can not and should not report this as actual abuse. But you can make people aware, including the sex offender, that you are keeping an eye on the situation. Start to visit more often. Talk to the counselors at the kids' school to see if they are exhibiting any symptoms of abuse (acting out with other children, etc). As another poster pointed out, get closer to the kids. Have them stay at your house overnight, take them to the movies and parks.
As for if to tell the fathers, you bet you should. You may want to contact social services to see how to proceed here. We've talked about RAINN here before, they may have some ideas for you.
Final word: a 19 year old who abuses an 11 year old girl is not likely to change and the LW is right to be concerned. It's not like he was caught with a 17 year old girl, he molested a CHILD.
Comment: #18
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:01 AM
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LW2: WIth the economy being what it's been like for the last 5 years, people are entertaining in different ways and that's great. I've never gotten why people are offended by this kind of thing because to me the point of a party is to hang out with people I like.
Either go or don't go, but if you don't go, or you kick up a fuss about bringing a dish, don't expect another invite.
PS: The best party I ever gave at work was a potluck for 150 people. We had signup sheets based on what course the giver wanted to make (salad, side dish, main dish, dessert) and within hours we were full up. The department I worked at had people from over 40 countries, and the food served reflected this. I was given a budget of $50 which I spent on large bottles of generic soda (we had coffee and tea and the office) and some basic decorations and we all had a great time. I've spent WAY more money for events since then: my average budget per HEAD for parties back when I did that for a job was about $60, but never have I seen people come together like they did for that potluck. I believe it was because when people know they are helping out, they feel more invested in the event.
Comment: #19
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:14 AM
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LW3: Age appropriate sex education needs to happen starting with potty training ("boys use bathrooms in a different way because_____ ") because it's not only about SEX it's about teaching children about appropriate touching and boundaries. (flashback to LW1!)
The conversation doesn't stop with one "final" talk before pre-school. It continues ON as the children grow up and as their vocabularies expand and their situations change. For example, a 10 year old may have questions about reproduction basics, a 13 year old will want to know more about menstrual cycles (as they start their periods and go through it themselves), and a 16 year old may want or need to know more about birth control and how it works and which options are best for them. It's an evolving conversation that each parent should have with their children as they grow and as they are able to absorb the information.
The LW is irritating to me, because the I don't think a 4 year old (preschool age) is going to "lie down with her boyfriend" and the rest of the information seems a bit condescending and archaic. I have no doubt that there are 5 sexually transmitted diseases that are drug resistant and to focus on that is kind of petty, and teaching celibacy before marriage is FINE. But it's better to teach your children reality and what the consequences are.
PS: LW? The consequences of pre-marital sex have been around forever. This is nothing new to this generation. 150 years ago a diagnosis of syphilis was a DEATH sentence (or at least a potential trip to the looney bin and social disgrace). Teaching our children sex education and the REALITIES of what happens to their bodies is a part of basic hygiene, in my opinion. And yes, I am a Christian.
Comment: #20
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:35 AM
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Can't help chiming in on the potluck issue. I agree that potluck parties can be a lot of fun, and are a great alternative in this economy. I think the problem stems from the the confusion of potluck with more traditional parties. If you are hosting a potluck, then I'd say it should be done the way some commenters have described: sign up sheet, everyone getting together to organize it, etc. I believe poor etiquette comes in when someone names him/herself as the host or hostess and wants the trappings of a traditional party (issuing invitations, controlling menu, etc.) but then treats it as a potluck in terms of actually providing the meal. In this case, it seems as if was a birthay party, not a casual get together. If you want to give a potluck, great, but if you want to "give" a party and be the host or hostess, then I believe you offer the hospitality (whatever you can afford or what works for you). I do see a trend of people wanting to "host" in the sense of controlling the event, but not using their home, not providing the food, etc.
Comment: #21
Posted by: SunshineStater
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:37 AM
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LW1, I agree that LW *should* investigate whether or not her local CPS can help; she should also be prepared to learn that they cannot do much at this point. In addition, she *should* try to develop a closer relationship with her daughter so she can be around her grandchildren *more* frequently -- to keep an eye out and give them a role model. This will mean learning to button her lip when it comes to her daughter's poor choices in men, which will likely be tough, but probably worth it in the long run. (And if your daughter's history is any guide, it's unlikely this man is in her life for the long haul, but that's cold comfort if he is there long enough to actually hurt your grandchildren.)
You might also seek some counseling for yourself to help you work through the stress of this situation -- better to express your frustration to a counselor rather than to your daughter, when she might reduce your time with the grandchildren if she takes offense at what you say. You will have to walk on eggshells for a while, I'm sorry to say.
LW2, Annies are dead wrong here. As is the LW. Completely, utterly, wrong, old-fashioned, and snobby. Potluck parties are common and have been for a while. And the hostess of this party has made it clear *in the invitation* what kind of party it is, so there's no faux pas here either LW has the choice to bring a dish and enjoy the company of friends; or to sit at home alone with her cats secure in the knowledge that she is prim and proper with her old-fashioned ideas of party-throwing. The choice is hers and there's absolutely nothing at all wrong with a host or hostess choosing to throw a certain kind of party, and making it perfectly clear to the invitees in advance what kind of party it is. The 1950s were over a long time ago, Annies, you might want to update your etiquette answers to be a bit more flexible (and to match reality).
There's certainly nothing wrong with throwing the other kind of party, where you provide everything for your guests; but to suggest that it's "wrong" to throw a potluck party is beyond ludicrous.
LW3, its always been true that pre-teens start to get curious about sex and sexuality, especially if they are in a school with some older kids or if they have older siblings. I remember clearly some of my classmates spreading all sorts of misinformation about "the birds and the bees" from age 10 upward, and this was in the 1970s, so it's certainly not new. (IN fact, in the days pre-internet and with only 3 television channels, we often had nothing to do BUT speculate about sex and gross each other out with what we imagined teenagers and adults were REALLY doing!).
I don't think anyone is suggesting that 11-years olds be given graphic details of every aspect of sexuality; but it's perfectly reasonable to provide age-appropriate information, even before then. (My parents started discussing these issues with me when I was 6, because I had taken to loudly and publicly using slang I'd overheard for male and female body parts usually considered "private").
"Where do babies come from" is a question that often comes up well before age 11. So, in reality, there shouldn't ever be one big "the talk"; it should instead be a series of "the talks", pitched to the appropriate age level, as a child grows.
Comment: #22
Posted by: Mike H
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:47 AM
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LW2 and the Annies could be the only 3 people left who have never heardof pot-luck.
Comment: #23
Posted by: Gerhardt
Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:13 AM
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Re: Teacher89 (post 7)
My daughter is going to be 21 in a few months, and she has had a similar experience to you.
Her best friend became sexually active when the girls were still in junior high. The regulars here know most of the story: CC (my daughter) became very concerned about her friend ("Teal") their sophomore year of high school because Teal was hanging out with guys in their 20s. The first year of high school, Teal's "boyfriend" (aged 25) posted naked pictures of Teal on the internet: when the mother called the police, they found the "boyfriend" (who everybody thought was 17) was 25 and that he had been imprisoned for sex offences several times. Unfortunately, Teal had met this creep at the Youth Center (yikes!) and by the time the mother called the cops, he had fled out of state (or maybe country, we live in Seattle and it wouldn't have been hard for him to get to Canada).
My daughter was so scared by all this (she was 15 at the time) that she made a firm decision not to date until she was in college. For the next three years, she was asked to every school dance, but only attended with her other friends (Teal had transferred schools and made CC uncomfortable so they stopped hanging out as much). CC devoted herself to the choir at school, her chess club and anime activities. When she graduated, she enrolled at college. She still had not had a real "date" - not because of any religious conviction or anything else other than having watched her friends make some bad decisions and her not wanting to get involved with anyone before she felt ready.
For the last year, CC has been dating a VERY nice guy who is respectful of her. They have known each other for about 8 years: they went to junior high and high school together and were in chess club together. I'm not absolutely sure about where they are at but at this stage, she's READY to move forward. I don't think she's holding out for marriage, she may be, but I know she was holding out for when she was more emotionally and physically prepared for a commitment.
PS: Teal was killed about a year and a half ago by an ex-boyfriend who was on drugs. My heart hurts for the loss of this girl who had such a big heart and so much potential, yet was struck down before she had a chance to show the world her true self.
Comment: #24
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:29 AM
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Re: Mike H
The LW suggests having the talk before ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, so it's not about educating a preteen, it's about educating at the PRESCHOOL level.
Comment: #25
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:38 AM
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LW1--"If I do any of these things, she may never speak to me again, and I might not get to see the kids." Your loser of a daughter has a registered sex offender living in her home and you're weighing the pros and cons of contacting CPS or the children's biological fathers because you're worried about your daughter taking vindictive action against you? Who cares!!!! If it gets the immediate threat out of her home, then do whatever you have to do! Now! Look honey, your daughter is being reckless and she's not adverse to putting her children's welfare in jeopardy in order to get her rocks off with the flavor of the week. I hope you're documenting these myriad incidents because you just might have a case for seizing custody of your grandchildren yourself, if you were willing. I hope you consider it for the kids' sake.
LW2--I have to disagree with the Annies. If the hostess specifies the event is a potluck, then expecting guests to bring a dish is okay. Frankly, the LW seems like a little snot if she's put out by being asked to throw together some hamburger helper or pick-up some deli salad on her way to the party. It's not as though the hostess asked her to construct a life-sized Lego Darth Vader.
LW3--11 years old is too young to for parents to talk about sex education? Has anyone not heard of 'Teen Mom' the "hot" new show on the Learning Channel of all networks? I think that train wreck makes it pretty clear that 11 year olds are doing anything and everything with their teen boyfriends. Parents beware!
Comment: #26
Posted by: Chris
Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:52 AM
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Incurable std's off the top of my head:
Herpes
Gonorrhoea
HIV
HPV
Maybe there's others, but epven if not, cut the lady some slack for rounding off. I don't think her argument collapses on that point.
Comment: #27
Posted by: Jpp
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:18 AM
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LW1: "I also have considered calling the local child protection agency, but I don't want them to take the children away from Ashley." Why the hell not? It would be the best thing that ever happened to them! Do you really think that while these violent, uninterested men (please, Annies, ask your editor to learn the difference between disinterested and uninterested) go around raging and slashing tires and sexually abusing children throught the revolving door that is your daughter's skirt, that Ashley is sitting there all Mother Hubbard baking chocolate chip cookies and making homemade playdoh while singing Raffi and rocking her little ones to sleep? Your selfish, irresponsible, stupid, emotionally disturbed and immoral daughter is ABUSING these children too. She picks abusive men to normalize her own abusive behavior. A real father wouldn't tolerate what she does. Why would you be so concerned to get your grandchildren away from one abuser, yet want to leave them with another just because she's your daughter? Maybe losing her kids would be the wake-up call your daughter needs to pull her head out of her you know what.
Comment: #28
Posted by: Jane
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:29 AM
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LW3: " I have found that most parents are stunned to find out how openly the kids talk about sex in school." Really? What time machine are you using? Kids talked openly about sex when "I" was in school, and I grew up and had kids who no doubt also talked openly about sex when they were in school, and now they've grown up to have kids of their own who are also no doubt talking openly about sex in their schools, so since this has been going on for generations, where on earth are these parents who are "stunned" to find out that kids talk about sex in school??? Since kids have always done this, surely these parents must have done it themselves?
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That said, I agree that talking to your kids and letting them know they have the power and knowledge to make their own choices that are best for them is always a great idea.
Comment: #29
Posted by: Jane
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:50 AM
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P.S., LW3, if the parents you know are that stunned to find out that kids talk about sex in school, you should tell them that kids actually talk about sex everywhere, not just in school.
Comment: #30
Posted by: Jane
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:57 AM
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LW1 -
My first gut reaction was to call CPS on the double, but considering what others are reporting, I don't know it this is the best course of action after all, since it risks alienating your daughter (AND lose access to the kids)... Offer to babysit and get the kids in your home as often as possible, and watch them like a hawk for signs. The following site gives a list of symptoms of sexual abuse: https: / / www.childwelfare.gov / pubs / factsheets / signs.cfm (Take out the spaces).
If you have substance to add to the suspicions, there is a better chance CPS will intervene. But, unless the children start talking themselves (unlikely), DON'T question them yourself: this is a job for a trained professional. It is EXTREMELY EASY to influence what children will tell you, even if that is not your intent and you don't realise you're asking pointed questions.
LW2 -
IN 2013 and the economy being what it is, there is nothing rude about potluck if everything is upfront well in advance. If you're the kind of person who believes a fun party is only when the host has had to spend a lot of money, then perhaps you should abstain.
I personally love potlucks parties... The menu is a surprise for all, and whatever food you like, you can get the recipe!
LW3 -
Are you putting "mom" in quotes because she is your step-mom and your father remarried a much younger woman? Because if you have 25 years teaching experience, that makes you at least 45, which makes your mother at least 60, even if she birthed you at 15... Most women don't have children at 49+.
This being stated, I started mensing at 12 and I'm hardly an exception even for my generation. And with the expanding use of soya products, many start at that kid's age and even earlier nowadays. If your "mom" is so clueless that she doesn't realise that an 11 year-old is plenty ripe for the facts of life, she's probably one of those who believes giving her any information will put "ideas" in her head, as if they weren't there already. Which means she'll have another excuse even when the kid starts to bleed.
This is your sister. Take her aside when "mom" isn't watching and give her "the talk" yourself. NOW.
P.S.: "Not allowed to speak to these kids until high school"? Good flamin' grief. It will be too late for many by then.
P.P.S.: "Saved her virginity for marriage"? I'm sorry, but I would have no problem with her "saving herself" for the right man, but saving her virginity for marriage implies that her hymen is a piece of goods that comes in either "brand new" or "used", which is extremely offensive. Especially since men generally do no such "saving" themselves, drug-resistant STDs or not.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey gang, this is a first! #3 is NOT a rerun!
Comment: #31
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:58 AM
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Re: Teacher89, SunshineStater, Kaycee, Jan Merzlak
Welcome BTL to all new posters, and to infrequent ones as well!
@nanchan #25
"The LW suggests having the talk before ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, so it's not about educating a preteen, it's about educating at the PRESCHOOL level."
I don't know what's your point to Mike exactly, but that's exactly when it should be happening. Pre-teens are often pubescent these days, and perfectly capable of producing a baby. They have to know how to protect themseves WAY before that, both against unwanted pregnancy and incurable STDs.
@Chris #26
"If it gets the immediate threat out of her home"
If it was certain to, I would agree with you 150%, but what if it doesn't? Then the LW will have possibly lost contact with the children, and with it, all chances of protecting them.
@jpp #27
Agree with you 100%.
@Jane #28
""I also have considered calling the local child protection agency, but I don't want them to take the children away from Ashley." Why the hell not? "
Perhaps she's afraid of where they'll end up, where they may be even worse off (stuff like that has been known to happen) and where she won't even know where they are. She cannot be certain CPS will place the kids with her, considering she could get harassed over them by both her daughter and her boyfriend.
#29
"I have found that most parents are stunned to find out how openly the kids talk about sex in school." Really? What time machine are you using? "
My sentiment exactly. I'm stunned that SHE's stunned. Doesn't she remember what kids were discussing in school (and everywhere else indeed) when she was that age? I never cease to wonder about people who grow up to do the exact same stupid thing their parents did, and don't remember that they themselves didn't need ANY information in order to have "ideas" about sex!
Comment: #32
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:27 AM
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Lise, I think LW3 is a rerun. The "mom" is not referring to her own mother or stepmother but in reply to a previous letter. I sure do hate to burst your happy bubble but it is again a rerun. Without the reference to which one it was I think Ms Pasko might have some difficulty with this one. Only time will tell. ;0). By the way, I am still on the fence with the post from yesterday. Everyone made sense while I was reading their post, then the next made sense too. Everyone had the correct answer?????
Comment: #33
Posted by: Penny
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:28 AM
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I think some of the BTL commenters are overlooking the word "age-appropriate" when it comes to "the talk." You DO begin with potty training; you only answer the question that is asked and not in great or graphic detail. If the child doesn't ask a follow-up question, you've satisfied that day's level of interest; if you haven't provided as much as the child wants to hear, you will then hear another question - and answer that the same way. Pre-school IS appropriate; don't tell me no one remembers playing "doctor" as a kindergartener... Comes to mind the currently running TV commercial where the kid in the car asks his dad where babies come from and gets a sci-fi fantasy response - and the father chickening out to "the wheels on the bus" when the kid says that another kid said his dad said something very different. :0)
Comment: #34
Posted by: graham072442
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:29 AM
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I think some of the BTL commenters are overlooking the word "age-appropriate" when it comes to "the talk." You DO begin with potty training; you only answer the question that is asked and not in great or graphic detail. If the child doesn't ask a follow-up question, you've satisfied that day's level of interest; if you haven't provided as much as the child wants to hear, you will then hear another question - and answer that the same way. Pre-school IS appropriate; don't tell me no one remembers playing "doctor" as a kindergartener... Comes to mind the currently running TV commercial where the kid in the car asks his dad where babies come from and gets a sci-fi fantasy response - and the father chickening out to "the wheels on the bus" when the kid says that another kid said his dad said something very different. :0)
Comment: #35
Posted by: graham072442
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:29 AM
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I don't know how "openly" kids are talking in school that some are referring to. But I did have one experience when I was subbing at a high school where the kids were "openly" talking and making plans for prom night. Those plans included mattresses in the back of their trucks, how big their backseats were, etc. They KNEW I could hear them and they didn't care. After about 10 minutes of it I shut them down. They just did not care who heard what they were saying and I could tell some of the kids in class were not comfortable with the conversation.
I was fortunate that two of my three kids didn't date at all in high school and I never pushed it. They also had friends with babies and they watched how it had affected their lives. One had given her baby up for adoption and she shared how hard it was. I have always felt that was a better lesson than anything I could have told them. And yes, we did have some very frank and open discussions. Even though we are Christians I never played that angle. Instead I would point out how having sex that first time will affect you for the rest of your life even if you don't get an STD or get pregnant. I have to admit though, I breathed a sigh of relief when all of my kids made it through high school without any problems.
Comment: #36
Posted by: GSDluv
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:39 AM
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Re: Penny
So THAT'S what "mom" was referring to... darn. And here I was thinking that the Annies were compensating us a bit for overrunning their columns with reruns of late... (sob, broken heart...;-D)
About yesterday, well, I think MY post made sense... ;-D Seriously now, as a general comment not necessarily applicable to yesterday: sometimes there are more than one answer, and we never have all the facts.
@graham072442
Unfortunately, people who think that giving any information to a kid of any age will put "ideas" in their heads will sidestep the questions or give the kid yurunda in answer. Unfortunately, that TV commercial is very much an example of "art" imitating life.
Comment: #37
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:41 AM
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Re: Jan Merzlak Kids should know that you can get STD's from oral sex as well!
Comment: #38
Posted by: sarah stravinska
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:56 AM
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Re: Lise Brouillette #32
Re LW#1------Lise, that's what I would be afraid of too-------that she would report this, there would be no evidence that they could act on, and possibly nothing would be done to get the kids out of there------and then, since the daughter would have a pretty good idea who reported it, the LW would then lose contact with the grandkids as punishment, and thus have no chance to try and find out from them if anything was gong on. As far as the daughter losing her kids, I say good!!!! A decent mother would not take a chance on the fact that this guy supposedly wouldn't do it again. Your kids are too precious a resource to take chances with. Maybe he's 'cured'. I'd err on the side of caution. Take all the chances you want with your adult self------NOT with your kids.
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Reporting it is a pretty big gamble-------and what if she loses? Much as I hate to say it, she might gain more by staying close to the kids for the time being, and making sure her relationship with them is such that they could go to her if something inappropriate IS happening.
Comment: #39
Posted by: jennylee
Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:59 AM
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Chris, Teen Mom is on MTV, makes a lot more sense.
And nanchan, sorry to break it to you but the reason your daughter didn't date in high school was because she was a loser and was never asked out until she found another loser just like her.
Comment: #40
Posted by: Notateacher
Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:19 AM
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Re: Notateacher
Well, it's obvious that you are NOT A TEACHER because you missed the point that she was asked to every dance by some guy or other and turned them down. DO you know how to read?
As for being a loser well...... you have to speak from experience. Is your real name PUBE?
Comment: #41
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:43 AM
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Re: Lise Brouillette
"Hey gang, this is a first! #3 is NOT a rerun!"
I noticed that too Lise -- amazing, isn't it??!!
Comment: #42
Posted by: Kitty
Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:48 AM
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I think most of you are WAY too hard on LW2 (although I admit that the question "Am I right?" which really means "You know I'm right, so just say so" is really irritating). She was not invited to a "pot luck." She was invited to a birthday party and then TOLD to bring a covered dish. THAT is what is inappropriate. If you're going to ask guests to furnish the food at your party, at least be honest enough to say what kind of party it is. If she has said a "birthday pot luck party" at least the instructions wouldn't have been unexpected.
Re; LW1, well, Ashley is one hot mess and I do feel for those 4 kids. But the fact that even their various fathers don't seem to be overly concerned is an even sadder statement, but of course they should be told. However, expecting trash to act like something besides trash is like expecting pigs to fly.
Comment: #43
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:53 AM
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Re: Kitty
Unfortunately, I'm afraid Penny is probably right. Snif.
Comment: #44
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:55 AM
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Re: Notateacher #40
Gotta say, if you truly ARE a brand-new poster and not just someone who's come up with yet another name to post under, you're not really getting off to a great start.
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You have no way of knowing WHY nanchan's daughter didn't date in high school, because you don't know her--------any more than we know whether you were REALLY a virgin till marriage (if in fact you were) because you CHOSE it, or because no one wanted to sleep with you. Now, I realize that is an outrageous thing for me to say, because I don't know you and so I have no idea about things in your life-------just trying to prove a point.
Comment: #45
Posted by: jennylee
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:00 AM
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@lise, I totally agree with your assessment of the hymen. My mother told me to save myself for love, but NOT marriage. She said one of the quickest ways to divorce would be to find out AFTER the wedding day that you're not sexually compatible!
@nanchan, are you SURE she was asked out? Were you THERE? I told my mom a lot of stuff she wanted to hear when I was a teen too.
Comment: #46
Posted by: msladymich
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:03 AM
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@nanchan, the original LW was talking about an 11-year old, and that's how today's LW3 also begins, so that was also my own starting point. Nothing more insidious than that.
But yes, I do think simplified, age-appropriate discussion can and should begin even earlier than age 11. I was 6 when I first learned about "the birds and the bees".
First, kids need to be taught about private parts and how adults shouldn't touch them there, and that's something we want kids to know sooner rather than later. Then there's discussions about what words we use in public and what we don't, when they start learning about the reactions they can get from certain words they overhear. And there's the "where do babies come from" question that some kids ask at quite young ages.
Age-appropriate is the key, but it should be a process that starts relatively young.
Comment: #47
Posted by: Mike H
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:08 AM
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For the record, I get the feeling that you folks don't know quite what to make of me. I posted my first comment in over a year about a week ago.
I suppose you can consider me half serious commentator and half troll. I love advice columns and have been reading them since I was maybe 8 or 10. When I first found this site, I was practically addicted to the drama in the comments and found myself coming back for those. It doesn't help that the Annies' advice doesn't hold a candle to Dear Abby or Ann Landers, or even Dear Prudence. The Annies are truly not that entertaining and I agree with other posters who lament that they don't correct themselves and don't consult experts.
And when I saw how you all treat (troll?) each other, I thought, I can get in on this! ;) all in good fun, of course! Ha!
Comment: #48
Posted by: msladymich
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:19 AM
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I know STDs can be contracted from oral sex, that's why I put that comment in quotation marks. That was part of my point. Kids (and some adults, too) don't understand that it is still having sex, and the same consequences apply. I have frequent age-appropriate talks with my child. People would be surprised what their little angels already know...and how much misinformation they hear from their friends.
Comment: #49
Posted by: Jan Merzlak
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:31 AM
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Few things make me as angry as women who put their sex lives before their children. I feel so sorry for this grandma to be in this position. I'd flat out tell them to call you day or night if they ever feel scared or unsafe and you will take them. I doubt their mother would care if you did.
I don't know what the Annie's have against pot luck parties, but they always seem to bash them as rude. I love them.
The "sex talk" at age 4 or 5 is a little much. My daughter will be 5 next month. She knows that boys and girls are different, that babies come when mommies and daddies do a special hug, and that you don't kiss a boy you aren't going to marry. I don't expect that last one to stick forever, but hey, it works for 4 yr olds. There shouldn't be one talk. It is an open ended discussion that can always be resumed. My mom used the tactic of giving me way too much graphic info way too young and embarrassing the hell out of me. At 9 she showed me how to put on a condom using a sock on her arm and at 11 she showed me "about how much blood I'd loose" on my first period. At the dinner table. Using the pasta sauce from dinner. In front of my step dad. None of my friends did anything so drastic as to ruin their lives with sex too young, but my friends were nerds. My step sister came close, but I had my mind made up long before she got to that point. My oldest brother was terminally ill and I spent my free time with him. He loved me foe who I was and after he died I decided I wasn't going to settle for anything less then love.
BTW I realized a few years ago that most of my ideals came from watching things like the Cosby show, TGIF andStar Trek. I look to my parents and they really have very different beliefs. When I think of why I believe something I think back to family friendly comedies on tv. Now kids have Honey Boo Boo. At least some cartoons are still good.
Comment: #50
Posted by: MT
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:46 AM
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RE: Lise
"mensing"??? Is that actually a verb? Don't know about anyone else, but that was a bit TMI for me.
Red
Comment: #51
Posted by: red
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 AM
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RE: Lise
"mensing"??? Is that actually a verb? Don't know about anyone else, but that was a bit TMI for me.
Red
Comment: #52
Posted by: red
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 AM
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@ Notateacher Re: #40
Oops, you're right. I was thinking of TLC's 'High School Moms' which is (relatively speaking) a less sensationalized ripoff of MTV's show.
Comment: #53
Posted by: Chris
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:53 AM
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Personally, I think hat potluck's are great. The money aspect never crossed my mind, but preparing fresh, delicious, home-made food that is all ready at party-time can be overwhelming for me. Just getting my home party-ready is a challenge. A pot-luck solves that problem.
Comment: #54
Posted by: jennifer
Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:59 AM
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Re: Notateacher #40
Jennylee is right. There are enough real complaints about nanchan without having to resort to unnecessary personal attacks. You can argue against her opinion all you want, this is what a comment board is for, but what you said about her alleged daughter was uncalled for.
@msladymich #46
"My mother told me to save myself for love, but NOT marriage. She said one of the quickest ways to divorce would be to find out AFTER the wedding day that you're not sexually compatible!"
That's what I told my own daughter too, and that's exactly what she did.
@MT #50
"At 9 she showed me how to put on a condom using a sock on her arm and at 11 she showed me "about how much blood I'd loose" on my first period. At the dinner table. Using the pasta sauce from dinner. In front of my step dad. "
Yeeesh. That's not sex ed, that's verbal abuse. Of a sexual nature.
@Red #51
Well, it sure is in my neck of the wood. Heard it and seen it in print countless times. Sorry about you thinking it's TMI, seems to me that something that happened to me almost half a century ago would be quite neutral by now! ;-D
And btw, the way English is constructed, it wouldn't matter if nobody had ever used it as a verb. You can take any noun and turn it into a verb, an adverb or an adjective. It's not slang, it's English. That's why the English language is sweeping the world - not so much because of politics, but because English is the most adaptable language on the planet.
Comment: #55
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:21 AM
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Lise, re: Perhaps she's afraid of where they'll end up, where they may be even worse off (stuff like that has been known to happen) and where she won't even know where they are. She cannot be certain CPS will place the kids with her, considering she could get harassed over them by both her daughter and her boyfriend.
I agree with you there is a chance (albeit much smaller than most people believe) that the kids could end up in a bad place. But there is a far better chance that the kids will end up in a good place. It makes no sense to not to take that small risk to move them to a good place when they're already in a bad place - like leaving them in a burning house today because if you take them out, they might get hit by a bus tomorrow. As for placing with the grandmother, I would hope they wouldn't. Better they are placed in a loving foster home with two capable adults who are equipped and knowledgable about how to help kids coming from a troubled home environment. The grandmother can ask for and will no doubt receive visitation, which will actually give her more security in keeping in touch with the kids than she has now with her daughter calling the shots.
Comment: #56
Posted by: Jane
Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:36 AM
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Re: Jane
I'll tell you the same I told Chris - if there was a certainly CPS will act and remove the children, yes, definitely go for it. Them not wanting to or being able to do anything, and the daughter retaliating by running for the hills seems like the greatest risk right now.
Comment: #57
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:13 AM
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Re: Lise Brouillette
I guess Penny IS right .. I was reading "Mom" as being the LW's own mother too. I suppose it was too good to be true :(
Comment: #58
Posted by: Kitty
Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:35 PM
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Mike H- "sit home with your cats...." and Chris- "life size Lego replica of Darth Vader"...." You guys are hilarious! Thank you for the guffaws. I actually LIKE to be asked to bring a dish- than I know there will be something to eat at the party that will not make me sick. Some of my relatives and friends are darling people that mean well, but they think it is okay to leave food at room temperature for hours and then offer it to guests. Or they make it burned on the outside and raw on the inside. So I am always happy to oblige. Besides, our family is huge when eveyone shows up, and you would need a commercial kitchen to cook for them. So, in our crowd, no one is insulted to be asked to bring a dish. And when people show up without one, no one looks at them cross-eyed.
Comment: #59
Posted by: Patty Bear
Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:53 PM
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Re: Patty Bear
Sounds like a positive, no-drama way of dealing with both a huge crowd AND a collection of bad cooks! It's always so much more pleasant when nobody is out there looking for an excuse to be pissed. And a happy Easter feast to you and your own!
Comment: #60
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:57 PM
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If he is on the state sexual offenders list and you know it is for molesting an 11 year old girl then CALL immediately. What grandmother would take a chance that her grand babies are put in that situation? She should have called as soon as she heard. child molesters do not reform. What is she waiting for? "I told you so.", is going to be too late. This is hot button topic for me so I will stop now. Gotta keep the blood pressure down.
Comment: #61
Posted by: Penny
Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:59 PM
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LW1: Boy, I thought calling CPS was a slam dunk here, particularly if she can confirm that the man Ashley is currently living with is a sex offender and depending on what the laws are in her state. Same for several of her other boyfriends, one of whom was abusive (slashing her car tires, most likely after a fight).
God, I am torn. What do you DO to help this girl realize that she is unfit and needs to get herself some help? The last thing she needs to be right now is a "mother" (as in, having several children she gave birth to living with her, just for that sake). If what her mother, the LW, writes is true, it's obvious that she must have some issues as well, perhaps with drugs, alcohol abuse and choosing good friends and men for long-term relationships.
The only thing I can add to that is, I don't know LW's specific situation as she was rearing Ashley – she may have been a single mother herself who struggled, or part of a two-parent household with a father assisting her and despite being good parents Ashley just somehow became the wayward wild child. But either way, there's a lesson I see: Your own relationships (whether Ashley's or anyone else's) will influence those your children one day have.
I fear for the kids.
If you have proof (however you have to get it other than talking to the grandchildren, because they'll blab), call CPS and get them out now!
LW2: Agree with the rest – the party host is having a POTLUCK (that's P-O-T-L-U-C-K) and is requesting that everyone bring a dish to share. You have it confused. You can always decline, but just like the other day when a LW was RSVP'ing with his regrets, I would highly recommend just saying, "I'm busy that day, maybe next time." (Granted, not wanting to bring a covered dish or other food item is certainly not in the same league as the issue discussed the other day, but it can still be highly insulting to the host to say, "I think you should be providing the food, friend.")
LW3: The only thing I'll say to this is, when you think your child is ready – and surely, 10 is a good time to discuss more specifics about "the birds and the bees" – have the talk. I even liked the example of explaining things to a curious preschooler in age-appropriate terms (although I'd keep it very simple and age-appropriate) ... I surely have to think that even at 4 or 5 years old, they know "the stork" is just a fictional character, or one they see sometimes in Saturday morning cartoons (reruns of old Bugs Bunny cartoons).
Comment: #62
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:08 PM
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Re: Bobaloo
"I surely have to think that even at 4 or 5 years old, they know "the stork" is just a fictional character"
Children that age have to have it explained to them that real life is not like Bugs Bunny reruns, where you can "kill" the Road Runner countless times and he'll always come back, the characters never really die and it never really hurts when you do horrible things to them.
So do they know that the stork, or Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny, or the characters they see on TV, are fictional characters? No, they don't. How could they, Bobaloo? Children that age are barely out of diapers. They know nothing of the world, and about what's possible and not possible. Can't you remember yourself at that age?
Comment: #63
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:38 PM
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LW 3 Miss Pasko clearly pointed out that it is a rerun in comment #13. I guess too many of you are skipping over her comment. I clearly recall the original letter and the ensuing debates.
Comment: #64
Posted by: locake
Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:51 PM
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I was sure my submitted letter "took" the first time I clicked on it. Yet now I can't find it. Is it possible I was (gasp!) reported for some reason and it was removed? I didn't THINK I said anything wrong....:o(
Comment: #65
Posted by: Linda
Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:01 PM
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re: #48 msladymich:
of all the columnists you mentioned, Prudie is my favorite!
FYI, I am here for the same reason you are - I post rarely, but I enjoy browsing the comments looking for some insight and occasional drama :)
Comment: #66
Posted by: IrinaK
Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:07 PM
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Re: Linda
Nope, glitch in the system for sure. Hey - there's been a lot worse, a lot of it reported including spam, which never got removed.
Comment: #67
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:08 PM
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When to tell kids about sex? I heard a comedian years ago (can't remember who) say something along the lines of “They just told me that there is no Santa Claus, but now they want me to believe *THIS*???” :)
Comment: #68
Posted by: Mary Ann
Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:19 PM
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Re: locake #64
Thanks locake (and others) - I was later than usual this morning and Teacher89 got everyone sitting up straight before I got here. We haven't moved to British Summer Time yet (next weekend), so I am an hour closer to you all than usual. Sometimes I peek at my iPod under the pillow and post the PSA, but we had a lovely Sunday lie-in and I didn't want to spoil it ;-)
It wasn't difficult to find, Penny (#33). Search terms ~~ "Mom 11 year daughter Mitchell" ~~ BAM!
Comment: #69
Posted by: Miss Pasko
Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:32 PM
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Re: locake #64
You're absolutely right -- Miss Pasko is usually one of the first to post, so I see right away which letter is a "re-run", but several others beat her to posting this morning, and hers got lost among them and I missed it.
Comment: #70
Posted by: Kitty
Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:35 PM
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Nanchan, I also thought the "final talk" remark was strange until I reread it. She says, "have the final birds-and-the-bees talk with their children before they begin elementary school," and I think she means that when they start elementary school you should stop talking about birds and bees and start talking about humans. The rest of her letter suggests that she advocates continuing, age-appropriate teaching. And yes, a 4 year old might very well "lie down with her boyfriend" and other things. Some kids start playing doctor before they can even say "doctor."
Comment: #71
Posted by: Baldrz
Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:47 PM
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Re: nanchan #24
I am so sorry that your daughter had to witness such a heartbreaking situation. My heart goes out to her, and to her friend's family. What a tragedy to lose someone so young and with so much potential. Best of luck to your daughter in her current relationship.
I didn't date until I was in college either, and despite "notateacher's" assertions I don't think that makes someone a loser. I might be a little biased in my opinion though. ;)
Thank you all for the warm welcome!
Comment: #72
Posted by: Teacher89
Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:49 PM
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Thanks, Lise B. I wish I could remember all my brilliant comments, so I could re-write the original post. Alas, the day grows long, and my brain increasingly dysfunctional....!
Comment: #73
Posted by: Linda
Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:25 PM
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Re: Linda
Before you hit the "Post Comment" button... Click into the comment box with your post in it, select all (CTRL+A), copy (CRTL+C), and then, if something happens, you can click into the empty comment box and paste (CTRL+V). I've learned the hard way! The copied item will remain copied until you copy something else.
Comment: #74
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:34 PM
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@IrinaK, glad to know I'm not the only one ;)
Comment: #75
Posted by: msladymich
Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:35 PM
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Re: Lise Brouillette (#63)
Well, then maybe I shot a little low with my age thing.
But what age IS appropriate, do you think, for first discussing the birds and bees – and not just telling the child an old wives tale that the "stork" is coming?
It's one thing to tell them the truth about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny ... but another about "the stork." And FWIW, quite frankly, the idea of telling kids about the stork when they're 4 or 5 is just parents burying their heads in the sand, but that's just me. Just tell the kid he doesn't need to know until he gets old enough and be done with it. Geez!
Comment: #76
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:51 PM
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Re: Bobaloo
When is it "age appropriate"? When they ask questions. A simple and direct answer to a question is always age-appropriate, regardless of the age the kid is when the question is asked. I am of the firm belief that anyone ready for a question is ready for the answer.
I've never been a proponent of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, and I don't remember ever really believing in either, but nicely pretending to for the sake of the aunties... But I'm not even the minority, I'm an exception.
But then, the adults never really knew what I thought and believed when I was a kid, as I didn't utter three consecutive words in an hour. I always found it far more instructive to just listen, since they were all so convinced that I was "far too young to understand"... Right. I certainly never treated my daughter that way, and guess what: I found out even babies understand a lot more than people credit them for!
Comment: #77
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:08 PM
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LW1- Maybe try calling the parole board? If the police and CPS won't do anything perhaps they can assist. Do whatever you can to get that monster away from those kids even if it means ruining your relationship with your daughter. She clearly doesn't have her head on straight.
LW2- Is this b-day party for a child? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the hostess can't afford to feed everyone coming but still wanted a nice party for their child? Should the kid be punished for that? Jeez, lighten up. It's not like they asked you to supply the booze for the whole shin-dig. Yes, technically this is a breach of etiquette but so is going to someone's house empty handed so what is the big deal? Of all the breaches in etiquette in today's society, this is the one you chose to take a stand on?
FYI- add syphillis to the list of anti biotic resistant STD's. Ah, nothing like a few open sores, incurable insanity and a slow death to make you want to have your legs sewn shut!
Comment: #78
Posted by: Keebler
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:47 PM
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Re: Lise Brouillette (#77)
"I found out even babies understand a lot more than people credit them for!"
And that's just it – I agree totally! It's one thing to play along and be a kid for such things as the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. Heck, I'm part of an organization that's helping the Easter Bunny's visit. What joy it is to help out and see the smiles on the kids' faces.
It's just this whole thing with the stork that bothers me. That's all.
Comment: #79
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:56 PM
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LW2 - My advice is to stop being such a snot. Either decline the invitation or bring the dish. It's obvious the host is organizing a potluck. If you want to be stupid, priggish and snotty, by all means stay home and spare your friends the unpleasantness of your company. (You can post nasty comments on Facebook about their horrible etiquette, to pass the time.) And by the way --- to the Annies -- a party in which the only "food" served is high-sugar junk like they describe, will likely physically sicken a good number of the guests. Why not just pass around sugar packets for the guests to gobble up, and make it easier on everyone?
Comment: #80
Posted by: sarah morrow
Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:20 PM
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P.S. To LW2 - when you look up the word "potluck," please look up the word priggish also, because it may be instructive. The definition reads: "A person who demonstrates an exaggerated conformity or propriety, especially in an irritatingly arrogant or smug manner." It'll sound just like home, I expect. (And a side not to Maggie Lawrence -- the LW said she was "asked," not told, and certainly not TOLD in all caps, to bring a dish.)
Comment: #81
Posted by: sarah morrow
Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:29 PM
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To LW3 - You make some good points, but people are people, and lecturing them to "abstain" from sex will only result in more STDs. (Plus, it will result in more people marrying folks they are sexually incompatible with, because the only way to know if you're compatible in bed is through experience with a potential partner.) Young people need to be given accurate information about medically effective ways of protecting themselves from getting STDs. Abstinence is one, but it's not the only one. Condoms, for example, are an effective barrier to many diseases. And some types of sex are less risky than others.
Comment: #82
Posted by: sarah morrow
Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:34 PM
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Re: Maggie Lawrence (#43)
"She was invited to a birthday party and then TOLD to bring a covered dish. THAT is what is inappropriate. If you're going to ask guests to furnish the food at your party, at least be honest enough to say what kind of party it is. If she has said a "birthday pot luck party" at least the instructions wouldn't have been unexpected."
I'm going to side with sarah morrow (#81) here. To me (and most of the rest of BTL, from what I see), it is clear from the context that she has been invited to a potluck. Hence "was asked to," the operative words. Admittedly, perhaps the invitation should have been written a little more clearly to avoid confusion, but still, this was a potluck'
"Re; LW1, well, Ashley is one hot mess and I do feel for those 4 kids."
Well, for someone who suggests that my use of the word "hottie" is annoying and irritating, it's a surprise you've used this phrase "one HOT mess" (emphasis mine). Yes, I do realize that you likely meant something else, but at face value it sure could be taken that she's a supermodel-looking young woman who's seriously messed up, what with her choice of boyfriends (those who are in trouble with the law, abusive, sex offenders, etc.), apparent inability to keep one for long (hence the wording "numerous volatile boyfriends" used by the LW) and multiple fathers for her children.
And FTR – no, I would never consider Ashley even remotely desirable in the least, even if she is young and even somewhat good looking ... not with all the skeletons in her closet. NO WAY!!!! Like I said, the last thing she needs is a boyfriend ... or to be a "mother" (i.e., have physical custody of her kids).
I will agree, however, that it may be very difficult to change her, even with intense professional help (which is what I would recommend).
Comment: #83
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:15 PM
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Re: Bobaloo
Actually, the relatively recently coined vernacular English expression "hot mess" has nothing to do with hot in the "hottie" sense. It means the kind of mess you're going to burn yourself on, not the tamala train "hot". ;-D
Comment: #84
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:24 PM
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Re: Lise Brouillette (#84)
Yeah, I guess it ("one hot mess") was one of those phrases that was on the tip of my tongue but I couldn't think of it. FWIW – I would have offered the definition as "a really big mess or situation whose resolution is difficult if not impossible to arrive at."
Comment: #85
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:33 PM
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And that's why I'm thankful you don't work with the good folks at Merriam Webster. Don't end a sentence with a preposition!
Comment: #86
Posted by: Zoe
Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:51 PM
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Re: Jane
Jane, with regard to your comment #29, I am sure it is true that children always discussed sex in the ways of their times. I went to a Catholic grade school in the 60s, and the most racy thing that we actually saw was one wise guy, (whom I later married), who had the nerve to come to school with "Valley of The Dolls" in a brown paper wrapper. There was discussion about sex, but we were not bombarded with the nasty visuals day in and day out.
Someone might have gotten hold of a Playboy on occasion, but television was innocent and, while sexual curiosity knows no time, the onslaught of filth available to kids now, on-line, and even in mainstream television, changes things big-time. Just look at the Superbowl half-time shows every year. This year, Beyonce, a beautiful, talented woman, yet the sexual aspect of her performance was so over the top.
I disagree that kids today are not a little different from kids in the past. With sexting, oral sex being no big deal, etc. I do think kids today are a little more out there and more sexualized by media than they were in previous generations.
Comment: #87
Posted by: Carly O
Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:12 PM
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Bobaloo, what is wrong with you? LW1 says "I received an invitation to a birthday party." Not a potluck. A birthday party. And just because most of BTL is all over her, doesn't change that fact.
And you just can't get off your obsession about women, can you? I mean, interpreting the expression "hot mess' which has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with being sexual to mean "at face value it sure could be taken that she's a supermodel-looking young woman ..." No, it could only be taken that way by a middle-aged, single, overly horny guy who desperately needs a girlfriend and fogs up the screen with his fantasies. Criminy!
Comment: #88
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:26 PM
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Re: Bobaloo-->>Just tell the kid he doesn't need to know until he gets old enough and be done with it.<<
Really? I mean, REALLY??????
You think that's going to work? It didn't work on me over 50 years ago. My mother tried that on me when I was almost 10, and I asked how babies got made in the first place.
"You're too young to know. I'll tell you when you're 12." She made it sound like it was something to be ashamed of.
All that did was make me determined to find out. By the time I was 10, I'd gotten the information from some older girls and it was totally skewed, but I never asked my mother anything again.
I didn't make the same mistake with my own son. He grew up knowing where babies came from, and when he asked about everything else, we gave him a brief answer, slowly adding more information as he needed or asked for more.
Acting like sex is something to be ashamed of and hidden is more likely to make kids want to try it than giving concise, matter-of-fact, non-judgmental information.
Oh, my mother did try to tell me about sex when I was a teenager. "Just wait until you get married, and you'll see how awful it is." She was wrong.
Comment: #89
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:16 PM
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Re: Zoe--It's okay to end a sentence with a preposition. Sometimes, you just have to.
When Winston Churchill was criticized for ending a sentence with a preposition, his reply was: "That is pedagogic nonsense up with which I will not put."
The idea that you shouldn't may be a holdover from Latin, but it's okay.
Comment: #90
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:24 PM
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Re: Zoe
Joannakathryn is correct. It IS acceptable to end a sentence with a preposition if it's awkward to rephrase the thought (as in the Winston Churchill example.) But then, we're not the gramma police here :)
Comment: #91
Posted by: Kitty
Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:32 AM
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Whoops - GRAMMAR, not GRAMMA - sometimes we definitely ARE the "Gramma" police, depending upon the letters written.
Comment: #92
Posted by: Kitty
Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:33 AM
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Re: Teacher89
Thanks :)
I am actually of the thought that the fact that both you and CC WAITED that makes you WINNERS!
What blows my mind about my daughter is how smart she is, and how dedicated. With her boyfriend, this is the first relationship for both of them, and they treat it like it's so natural for them.
She has a large friend base, and is gorgeous. So maybe that other poster is just jealous. Happens here all the time!
Comment: #93
Posted by: nanchan
Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:31 AM
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BTL posters get jealous of each other all the time? I have not seen that dynamic at play, but it certainly would be pathetic to be jealous of an Internet stranger.
Comment: #94
Posted by: msladymich
Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:20 AM
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Re: msladymich
Jealous of what, I wonder...
Comment: #95
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:15 PM
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