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Be Well
This will be my last column as Dear Margo. I have been giving advice for 15 years — first as Dear Prudence and then under my own name. I have been writing for newspapers for 45 years. The time feels right to retire from deadline journalism. I …Read more.
When Things Don't Look Quite Right
Dear Margo: I'm 60, and my boyfriend is a few years younger. He recently moved in with me. His job requires him to meet with people after their workday. I know he really is doing this on some nights, because I have seen people enter his workplace. …Read more.
Play It as It Lays
Dear Margo: My boyfriend (of more than three and a half years) and I are at a crossroads in our lives. We're both in a master's program, and up until now we've been very serious and committed to our relationship. However, last week he brought up …Read more.
Unwarranted Guilt
Dear Margo: I am married with two almost-teenagers. We aren't rich, but we're comfortable. I have a cousin who has two children. One is near my children's age. This one has spent summers with us for years, and we have taken him on almost every …Read more.
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Brickbats
Soooo many readers didn't care for my answer to the neatnik bride who didn't know what to do about her slob of a husband. I said it would probably be less aggravation if she were to stop harping and trying to train him. And I unfortunately told the truth, saying it was probably easier to train a dog. Here's what some people had to say:
I just read your advice to Neatnik, who complained about her oblivious husband, who's a slob. I am wondering how old YOU are? No respectful feminist would have ever answered: "The solution may be to take matters into your own hands." Rewarding a husband is so easy, and the results are gratifying. Loosen up, and get real, woman! Men are just adult children: reward and punishment. — Bernice
What is building here will erode the love if not discussed and if compromises are not reached. She need not do things for him that he can do for himself. Ask that he remove his shoes at the door for a week and have a pair of slippers there. Thank him. You see where this is going? Dirty socks? If they don't make it into the hamper, they don't get washed. — Len
I was surprised at your advice to Neatnik. She is telling you of her frustrations, and you tell her to just clean up after him, "which would make it a non-issue." What kind of logic is that? Are little boys allowed to track in grit and leave socks around, with the little girls required to pick up after them? If not, then why would we pick up after grown men? — Granny of Five Boys
I think we might be able to offer a bit more support to Neatnik. While it's true that compromise is sometimes the best course, it would seem unfortunate to miss the opportunity early in a marriage to establish shared responsibilities. Simply picking up after her messy husband will leave one spouse feeling entitled and the other dispirited — not a good recipe for a long and happy marriage. I'd recommend that the couple make a list of all the household tasks, from trips to the dry cleaner to washing the dishes to paying the bills, and then determine which spouse is better suited to which task. The outcome, while not mathematically perfect, will provide both of them with a sense of stewardship for the home they share. — Mame
I did, however, have two letters of support:
I actually agree with your advice. House chores have never been equal. There are things my guy does well; cleaning is not one of them. I am always picking up after him. Many years ago, it bothered me because I thought marriage should be equal. Our marriage is equal. It's just not divided equally in terms of who cleans what, who contributes how much financially, who does the yard work, etc. If you appreciate the qualities each of you brings to the relationship, you will begin to appreciate each other more. — Another Neatnik
You were right on. Pick your battles! Try to incorporate a "no shoes in the house" policy. That will help, and it is less individualized and personal. If he is happy, you will be happy. If he is miserable from the nagging, your life will be awful. — Sue
Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via the online form at www.creators.com/dearmargo. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.
COPYRIGHT 2013 MARGO HOWARD
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM 
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Comments
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7 Comments | Post Comment
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The constant nagging of "neatniks" to people they call "slobs" is a control issue. Exactly how is a pair of shoes next to a door hurting anyone? It's not.
Neatniks oh-so-enjoy pointing out how superior their obsessions are, and screeching about the askew horrors (gasp!) of others is the epitome of controlling behavior. Stop expecting others to mold into your whims, and stop insisting your way is "better" or "right." Most of us sleep just fine knowing there's a dish left to wash or shoes by the door.
I say, get over it. Please. You chose to live with ANOTHER person, not a clone of yourself. You don't want to do their laundry? Fine. Don't do it....and don't whine about it being undone; ever. It's not your laundry. See how that works?
Comment: #1
Posted by: Johanna
Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:31 PM
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Johanna,
I think it goes both ways. My husband is a "slob," and I am a "neatnik." This word "neatnik" has been thrown at me as an accusation for many years. My husband has brought the same arguments as you are bringing up now: Who is a pair of shoes by the door hurting? Or a sink full of dirty dishes? Or a pile of dirty clothes dropped right next to the laundry basket (not into it)? Or crumbs left on the dinner table all day long? Or 3 months worth of magazines, catalogues, and newspapers stacked up in the corner of the bedroom? The thing is, none of those things hurt anyone if they occur occasionally and not all together at the same time, and not on a perpetual basis. If they are all aways there, one person is forced to live in a mess around them, which can be extremely stressful. Beating somebody over the head with the words, "You are a neatnik" is as controlling as beating them over the head with the words "You are a slob."
Comment: #2
Posted by: Ariana
Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:53 AM
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Wow! Johanna and Ariana give us 2 totally different points of view. Each one makes a valid point. Perspective is always so interesting.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Danielle
Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:39 AM
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I've been on both sides of the issue. Living with room-mates, I was the "slob" of the group, and there was some tension because of it. General consensus was that the two room-mates in question wanted the apartment looking like Better Homes and Gardens at all times, and one or two others in my circle speculate there's even a psychological issue with one of them, who can't seem to stand anything being out of place at all (she washes her dishes BEFORE eating dinner, for example, because she can't enjoy her food when there's dirty dishes). I make no bones that I can be messy, but they are over the top, and basically I was expected to adhere to their standards.
I eventually moved in with my current bf, who is a bigger slob than I. Cue a year of arguing over chores, especially since I work longer hours than he does. The truth is, he really doesn't "see" the mess a lot of the time. He'll flat out forget the sink is full of dishes and not notice the clothes on the floor or the dirty bathroom. He usually does the cooking, which is great, but he DESTROYS the kitchen when he does-- when he makes spaghetti, it looks like he killed someone over the stove. As it's such a small apartment, it really doesn't take long for things to pile up and get really unsightly. And he used the same type of arguments Johanna does (and I did, with my room-mates) that I'm just getting upset over a missed spot or a hair out of place. After over a year of living together, the place is still sometimes messier than I like, but much improved, and we're much closer to a compromise, but it took awhile.
I've learned from my experiences that there is no easy answer to cleaning when you live with others. People can have very different standards, and communication and compromise seem to be key, but even then, there might be cases where everyone is a little unhappy with the outcome.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Jers
Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:51 AM
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Reading Jers' post was kind of creepy... it was like I wrote the post in my sleep and forgot about it. That is the exact situation I'm in; I used to be the household 'slob', but my husband is super messy. He's even the chef of the house, but makes a huge mess when he does cook. I just got back home after being away for almost two weeks and he was proud that he had managed to do some laundry. Except, the clothes in the dryer weren't dry yet, and there were towels that had been left overnight in the washing machine. The bedroom, bathroom, and kitchen were all just a mess. I was a little peeved, but I keep reminding myself that he just doesn't see the mess. He's a real sweetheart otherwise, and this just isn't worth fighting over.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Seraina
Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:01 PM
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Lol I feel ya Seraina,
One thing that helps in our case is that bf does legitimately do a lot around here other than cleaning. He bathes our cat (she has a stubborn case of fleas) and looks after the litter box, does a lot of the cooking as I said above (and usually the dishes), basically does anything requiring "heavy lifting" or minor repairs, and occasionally even does my laundry. I do a lot of the cleaning and basically anything money-related (bill paying, shopping), as well as routine things like making the bed and wiping the counter. The apartment isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than it was when we first moved in.
They key is to be willing to compromise on a few things. The problem with my room-mates (we were friends before we moved in together and still are now, though it did cause some issues), was that is was essentially "we want things to look like this and you have to adhere to that."
Comment: #6
Posted by: Jers
Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:21 PM
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I agree with Johanna. Trying to change someone is the wrong approach. My partner and I have two completely different housekeeping styles. While I like to do a little bit every day; clean dishes as I dirty them, fold and put away light loads of laundry during the week he prefers to hold everything until Saturday, which he has deemed "cleaning day." My partner will routinely leave dirty plates and glasses on the coffee table rather than walk them to the sink and he has what can only be described as a waterfall of clothes tossed about over backs of chairs, sofas and all over the floor. Do I go ballistic or nag and berate? Absolutely not. I go about my business of picking up after myself and cleaning up the kitchen, whether I dirtied it or not. Since the dishes on the coffee table bother me, I simply take care of them myself. If we're expecting company, I gather up all the clothes and put them in the pantry. In short, I take of things myself that bother me and accept that my partner and I are simply two different people. Obsessing over neatness and then throwing a hissy fit when your partner doesn't conform to a Nazi-like obsessive compulsive cleaning regimine is a ridiculous waste of time and energy.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Chris
Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:45 PM
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