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Wave a Drama-Free Goodbye to Mama and Her Boy

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Dear Annie: I have been married nearly 30 years to someone who is a self-centered, selfish, immature mama's boy. Mama is so controlling, and yet so needy, that every time we've moved, she's moved nearby. She has switched to the same doctor and even goes to the same hair salon her "baby" uses. She gets to know the employees at these places and then interrogates them and blabs our business to everyone.

My husband has had several affairs over the years, and Mama has met every one of these women. Most of these affairs begin as a way to get these women to buy him items we cannot afford, such as cameras and computers. He gives them my old jewelry, thinking I won't notice. As soon as he gets what he wants, he dumps them.

My husband tells everyone we are in debt because I don't know how to handle money. The truth is, I am very frugal, but am unable to keep up with all the debt he has accumulated through his Internet spending. I've been on the receiving end of STDs three times. My mother-in-law is happy to be involved in all his little schemes.

I recently joined a support group and have gathered the courage to file for divorce. My question is: Do I tell my grown children and family the truth? I've been too humiliated to admit any of this and don't want to deal with a lot of questions and drama now. — Without Common Sense, You Ain't Got Nothin'

Dear Without: Your grown children are probably more aware of what's been going on than you think. But they still love their father and don't want to be stuck in the middle of feuding parents. It is OK to correct misimpressions or lies that Mama or your soon-to-be-ex may circulate about you. But otherwise, please take the high road. Simply say the divorce has been percolating for a long time, and you feel it's the best decision for everyone.

Dear Annie: My husband and I will be celebrating our anniversary in a few months with a big party.

We will be inviting family and friends to this affair.

The problem is, we are friends with two people who divorced each other 10 years ago. They each married other people, and both couples are now part of our social circle. But the exes still avoid being in the same room. We want both couples to attend, but how do we invite them without making all four of them uncomfortable?

We're afraid if we tell one set of friends we are inviting the other, neither set will show up. — Massachusetts

Dear Massachusetts: Invite whomever you wish. Do not volunteer information about the guest list, but if someone should ask, it's OK to tell them. If they say, "We won't come if So-and-So is invited," your response should be, "We understand. We'll miss you."

Dear Annie: You gave a good answer to "Frustrated in Colorado" regarding her racist mother-in-law's reaction to her adopted daughter. I, too, was adopted by a woman whose mother was bigoted.

My mother didn't like the way her parents responded to me, but since she was their only child, she chose not to deprive them of her visits. My grandfather, while outwardly rejecting me, privately had me sit on his lap and read the Bible to him. He also gave me candy and treats, so I knew he cared about me. I don't hold their faults against them. It was a different time. I understand they had their limits.

I treasure the time I had with my grandparents. It is better to focus on the positives than the negatives, at least with family, which you cannot choose. — One Person's Opinion

Dear One: Most of our readers did not agree that there could be any benefit to a relationship, so we greatly appreciate your take on the subject.

Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please email your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 737 3rd Street, Hermosa Beach, CA 90254. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.

COPYRIGHT 2012 CREATORS.COM


Comments

45 Comments | Post Comment
LW1 - Good for you!! You will be SO happy when the divorce is done and you can move on with your life, away from your cheating ex and his mother.

Don't go into details with your kids. Your husband was awful to you but presumably is not a terrible father. It would be unfortunate for your kids to lose their relationship with their father. You don't have to sugarcoat, or lie, but don't go into anymore detail than you need to.

LW2 - Invite them both and let them sort it out. Their drama is more important after 10 years than your celebration, apparently, so let them sort it out between themselves and don't worry yourself about it.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Zoe
Sun Feb 5, 2012 9:17 PM
LW1-
I was about the shriek, why are you putting up with this yurunda, but I see you're finally filing for divorce. About time. Let bo-boy and his beloved mama resume their little love fest until the day they die. They can take an apartment together and live happily ever after.

About what to tell your grown children. Don't spontaneously start a b*tch-fest about your ex (although you can't be blamed for having a lot on your heart), but do not let calumnies and slander go unaddressed either. And - if any of them asks questions, don't fudge the truth.

LW3-
Yeah, well, it's all very nice that in this particular case, the bigoted grandparent was of two minds, but we have no indication that this would be the case and in fact, it generally is not. A child is not a guinea pig to be experimented upon in the hope that all ends well.

I'd be curious to know how many letters of protest the Annies received against this sole one. With the Samantha KImmel incident as a case in point, we now know haw dramatically they can skew facts in their favour.

Comment: #2
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Feb 5, 2012 9:18 PM
Echoing Zoe!

LW1: It took a fantastic amount of courage to leave this man after 30 years of the type of abuse you've had. The good news? Your children are grown and you (probably) are still young enough to lead a whole new life now. The Annies are totally correct. The kids probably know more than you think they do. And if they ASK (big part there: don't volunteer the information, let them ask you about it) then tell them the truth. But remember, this is their dad, they don't want to have him trashed. Give them enough information to answer their questions, but don't give away the whole store.

BTW: re the humiliation part. The ONLY person who should be humiliated is your husband. Anytime you feel bad about leaving him, reread your letter. Remind yourself of the facts. The man basically prostituted himself out and gave you STDs. His mother isn't the problem, really. HE is.

LW2: My parents had a divorce much like your friends have. May I say right off the bat you should be commended for not taking sides in the divorce. Many many couples will side with one person or the other during a divorce and it says a lot about you and your husband that you did NOT.

My advice to you is contrary to the Annies. Having gone through this with our parents, my brothers sisters and I reached a zero tolerance phase for our parents drama (fueled mostly by my stepmother) and just laid things out on the table from the beginning. Inform BOTH couples that the other couple is invited and also let them know that you will be seating them at tables at opposite ends of the room. My siblings and I did this for every graduation, wedding, sporting event, piano recital, etc for years. It worked wonderfully. Also, telling everyone everything up front will avoid any unwelcome surprises. If I was either of those couples and you didn't tell them about the other, I'd feel like I'd been set up. Be honest.
Comment: #3
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Feb 5, 2012 9:43 PM
LW1, the Annies often recommend counseling. I'd recommend it in this case. You have a lot of anger you need to get off of your chest, from all your years entangled with your crazy spouse. Getting free of "the jerk" and his crazy mother is a good first step.


Re: the divorce, just tell the kids that you always had differences you found it impossible to talk about, and that it got to be intolerable living with their father.

LW2 - I'd say tell both couples you're inviting both couples. If they avoid the party as a result, that may be for the best. Would you want LW1 and her spouse at the same party?

LW3 - I respect your opinion, and your thoughtful human perspective (very much), but as you say, you grew up in a different era, when racism was more accepted and even expected. People who embrace and declare it in this day and age have perhaps a more serious problem.
Comment: #4
Posted by: sarah morrow
Sun Feb 5, 2012 11:48 PM
LW1, probably no need to say anything to anyone about the lies and the abuse and the cheating. Most people learn in their own way that life is filled with disappointment and despair. It's good that you have finally found the courage to end the pain that was your marriage; now, at least, you have some hope for a brighter future. I envy you that hope. Make the most of it.

LW2: I'm surprised that more of your friends aren't in the same situation, since things in life rarely turn out as they should. But you know your friends the best; and regardless of whether you try to keep it from them or tell them in advance, don't let their drama overwhelm or overshadow your big day; life has enough disappointments, and things going horribly wrong, so it's important to cling to the few small moments of joy before the darkness closes in and the forces of evil triumph.

LW3: It's nice that you could find the positive in a negative situation, and if my heart weren't crushed to little pieces this morning and all color hadn't bled out of my world, I might have extracted some happiness from your letter.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Mike H
Mon Feb 6, 2012 3:56 AM
Re: Mike H

Oh, Mike. What on earth happened? I'm worried about you.

Please let us know what's going on, at Delphi if not on Creators. We all care about you.
Comment: #6
Posted by: JMG
Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:23 AM
LW1: Be honest with your children. Everyone else, you can brush off with vague answers, but, your children deserve the truth. If you don't give them the truth calmly, they will look to the loudest/ only voice talking to them (their father/ grandmother). Practice a clear, concise line to say when your children ask, "Your father has had several affairs that I know of and we cannot agree on how to handle money." No need to bring psycho-Granny into this. They have two eyes, I'm sure they can figure that part out themselves.

LW2: You know your friends preferences and owe them a heads up. Besides, you really don't want to surprise them with the others presence. The last thing you want is to have your party become all about them. They are adults, they can figure it out.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Shannon
Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:26 AM
JMG - I think Mike H was referring to the Pat's loss in the Superbowl. Good game, though (small consolation - sorry).
Comment: #8
Posted by: Jenna
Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:30 AM
To the BTL regulars (and passers-by):

I feel quite dreadful that I neglected to wish everyone a Happy Superbowl Day yesterday. Is it too late, now? Probably. Oh well, I'll get it in early for next year!
Comment: #9
Posted by: Beguiling Miss Pasko
Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:33 AM
LW1 - How you put up with that for 30 years is beyond me. I couldn't take any more than 2 1/2 before I got divorced for very similar reasons. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your life!!

As for your children, I can pretty much guarantee that they know he is a spineless mommy's boy. I, too, was married to a spineless mommy's boy and he had a 6 year old cousin that called him out on it! At 6 he knew what my ex was! I guarantee your kids know. But...I would warn them that he and his mother may try to manipulate them into giving them money and gifts. One day, ex and mommy are not going to be able to find a woman to use and they may start going to family. My exMIL manipulated and ripped off her own kids. People like them aren't below that. I would warn the kids about that. As far as the rest, I would only answer questions that they ask.

BTW, your exMIL is going to die one day (I assume she's pretty up there since you were married for 30 years) and your ex is going to be all alone. Laugh with me!!

LW2 - The Annies nailed hit. Invite both and stay out of the drama. If one of them (or both of them) pull the "I'm not going if he/she is going" simply say, "Sorry to hear that, you'll be missed," and go about with your life. My grandmother pulls that BS for every stinking family event. Everybody now says the "Sorry to hear that, you'll be missed" line. Sometimes she shows, sometimes she doesn't. It's no skin off our back.

LW3 - I agree with Lise. Kids are not guinea pigs to be tested. And I also don't agree with the LW when he/she says they were "different times." My grandmother is very racist. My grandfather is 8 years older than her and he isn't racist. I also have great aunts and uncles her age and older that aren't racist, either. Racisim is wrong, no matter what generation you're from.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Michelle
Mon Feb 6, 2012 5:46 AM
People use the "different times" excuse but that's just what it is, an excuse. Even when it was more common to be racist, people knew it was wrong and there were plenty of people always spreading that it was wrong.
LW1, I wouldn't assume as the other writers have that people know, even your children. I find mothers in situations like yours work very hard to hide such nastiness from their kids most of the time, and that may ironically work against you now. More than once someone in your position has said "your father had several affairs" to get reactions of shock and awe, and complete rage that mother would dare say such lies. Even as they were shown pictures of half siblings. Denial can be a powerful thing, unless your kids are old enough to hear the gossip going around. But do speak your truth. Part of breaking free is refusing to le anymore to cover for them. You need not be graphic or go into detail, just say quietly he was unfaithful and you tried to hold it together for a long time but couldn't anymore. Oh and don't tell anyone but your family. No one else deserves or needs an explanation, unless they're trying to show support to you and be there for you.
LW2, I am sorry your friends are drama queens. I disagree you owe them any sort of heads up. They've been divorced 10 years and moved on supposedly and are married to other people and need to get over it. The divorce means they don't need to fight anymore so why they feel the need to visit their drama upon others is beyond me. OTOH I am a mean person and if those kind of people get upset with me and don't want to socialize with me anymore I find myself unable to care. YMMV. I mean I wouldn't invite the four of them to a six person dinner date but a large party with many people there, it's unacceptable to act like they should get special privilege or their hands held more than any other guest because 10 years ago they were together. How Junior High.
Comment: #11
Posted by: wkh
Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:27 AM
LW1: Good for you that you are getting out. I don't blame you one bit. Can I suggest one other thing? MOVE!! And don't tell the ex-hubby or momma where you are going.
On a side note: When I first went to comment I showed to be logged in as Jenna. Anyone else have that happen? No one else uses my computer except me. When I refreshed the page I was able to log in. Strange!!
Comment: #12
Posted by: Carol
Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:30 AM
Re: Carol
It happens all the time. When that happens to me and I press "Post Message", what happens is that I get the message back in the box with a preview on top and the login box. Once or twice it went through directly, with my proper signature at the bottom. Don't worry about THAT - this site has more serious problems than that.

Comment: #13
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Mon Feb 6, 2012 6:52 AM
Oh Mike, Mike, you poor love. I guess everyone except JPG knew that your heart belonged to the Patriots. That was kind of a cliff-hanger though, wasn't it. I'll never forget Super Bowl three years ago when I was out west for my nephew's wedding. He married an Australian girl whose parents came to the U.S. for the first time. So we were having a gathering to watch the game and they were very interested in this sacred American ritual, but their impressions of how tough our game was got blown out of the water the first time the referee called "Unnecessary Roughness!" What roughness is "unnecessary" in football? Isn't that the point of the game? I'll never forget it.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:02 AM
Indeed, my heavy heart today is a result of the devastating (and highly inappropriate ending, in my opinion) of last night's Superbowl.

Life here is now grey and dismal; we all walk around, shuffling like zombies in a haze. I believe I hear someone still weeping down the hall from my office. I'd go comfort them, but I have nothing in my soul today except emptiness.

The sun may be shining this morning, but it shines on a bleak landscape of despair.
Comment: #15
Posted by: Mike H
Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:13 AM
"With the Samantha KImmel incident as a case in point, we now know haw dramatically they can skew facts in their favour."

What's the Samantha Kimmel incident? I recognize the BTL name...
Comment: #16
Posted by: Casey
Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:15 AM
Who is Sarah Kimmel? And what happened to Jean who used to post BTL every day?
Comment: #17
Posted by: red
Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:17 AM
Re: Carol

Good morning! Yes, it happens all the time here. When you see another poster's name here, it's usually a person who has commented on the thread. Just go ahead and type in your comments anyway: the system will kick you into the log in screen because it does recognize that your computer is different than ______'s.

My issues with Creators started around Christmas time when they apparently shut the site down for half a day or so to refresh the system. Mine have been:

1. System no longer refreshes when you refresh the url. This only happens to me on Creators.
2. Double posts (and not only when "post message" is hit twice). One day last week a post of mine hit four times and I had shut the computer down after hitting post message.
3. Delay in posts. This was especially evident yesterday when a LW actually posted on the thread, but I have seen posts delayed for up to two hours.
4. (not new) Non-unique user names. We've seen a lot of people coming in and posting as other people, which has caused confusion.
5. (not new) Extremely small typing screen with hard to read gray font.
6. (not new) Poor site administration. Most sites won't publish posts with profanity, this site allows it. Also, the "report this post" function takes you to an email message instead of a complaint box and does not reference the offensive post.

I'd be curious to know if anybody else has had any of these problems as well. Sorry about the rant.
Comment: #18
Posted by: nanchan
Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:23 AM
Re: Mike H - I weep at the thought of your deep dispair. Come here so I can go all Cher on you - "Snap out it"!
Comment: #19
Posted by: Rick
Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:45 AM
LW1 - Congrats to you!! Nothing for you to be humiliated about. Hold you head up and move forward. The Annies are right that your kids probably know more than you think (so do your family and freinds) and you may be surprised at how much they tell you. Stay on the high road and keep focused. Best of luck to you!


LW2 - Again, the Annies are on target (I'm getting worried about them). Send out the invites and they will need to decide and make a grown up decision.


LW3 - Very cool memory. Sometimes folks are prisoners of their own beliefs and just don't know how to break out.
Comment: #20
Posted by: Rick
Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:51 AM
Re: Casey & Red

You can read BTL for 5 February, and see that LW1 was sent in by our own Samantha Kimmel. She was upset that her letter had been edited in such a way that it was erroneous. Plus other issues, but I will let you read for yourself.
Comment: #21
Posted by: Beguiling Miss Pasko
Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:55 AM
Re LW#2---------I know this is not the 'socially acceptable' way, but I have always preferred to have an idea of who else has been invited to a get-together that I'm asked to attend. I don't have any ex-spouses that I am bitter about, but there are certain people whose company I do not enjoy and who ruin the enjoyment for me. Knowing in advance that those people will be there, I would welcome the chance to turn down the invitation, stay home with a good book, and perhaps later on accept an invitation from the host knowing that the person I don't want to see will NOT be at that gathering.
I appreciate the few people I know who will invite me with something like "I'm having a get-together at my house Friday; John, Mary, Tom, and Alice will be there, and I hope you will come." So, if I dislike Tom to the point where having to socialize with him would negate the fun of socializing with John, Mary, Alice, and my hosts, I can graciously turn down the invitation without having to say "Who else will be there? Because if Tom is there, I won't come."
I would never expect my hosts to invite or not invite based on my likes and dislikes, but it's nice to know before I accept or decline. I wish society did not feel that it is unnecessary to include details such as names of other guests when extending an invitation.
(And yes, I COULD suffer through an evening with Tom, for example, without making any scenes; I just think it's pointless to attend something that I know I will not enjoy.) Obviously things like weddings, family birthdays, etc. are the exceptions, and I would go and grit my teeth. But to suffer through an evening of chit-chatting, snacking and drinking wine with someone I very much dislike, for no good reason? Don't want to. Won't do it unless I have to.
Comment: #22
Posted by: jennylee
Mon Feb 6, 2012 8:09 AM
Re: Maggie Lawrence

That's funny ~ especially as Australian football appears very rough, indeed. I wince just to see a few minutes of it.
Comment: #23
Posted by: Beguiling Miss Pasko
Mon Feb 6, 2012 8:17 AM
LW1: You are currently married to your husband and his mother. Neither one is good for your life. Here is a case of Like Mother, Like Son.
How you have decidedly lasted with the deceit all these years is beyond me. Allegiance or alliance, neither is working for you. Don't think for a moment your kids don't know. Apparently since you have not moved on this issue before, they have decided it is YOUR problem.
Adults forget that their children mimick what they learn at home growing up. That is teaching some sad lessons when you continue to stay in a farce of a committment you want to call a marriage.
Lady, time to save your physical and mental health and get out. YOU should not have to leave, get the legal paperwork done, get a restraining order. Simply the STDs you have endured should be enough for your request.
It has been a rather sick issue on your part to be part of this triangle for this long. Not even adding the little trollops brought home.
Be bold when people ask what happened. Tell your children the truth. Who cares what happens to the pair of scumbags.
You should not hide your head in shame what you husband has done to your family. When you think it is your job to continuely fix things time after time after time, you are victim of his emotional abuse. Your children are victims too.
Get going. Get it done. Write back with follow up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LW2: Gee, your party. And you are asking how to keep it civil for others who may not be friends anymore. Not your job. Your party. Unless they consult you on their invitation list when THEY have a party, again--YOUR PARTY. There may be others who don't come but do you find ways to fix it so they can come? Different day? etc. Again, YOUR PARTY.
Comment: #24
Posted by: Joyce/MN
Mon Feb 6, 2012 8:55 AM
Re: Casey & Red
Check yesterday's thread. LW1 is Samantha Kimmel, a regular, if not every day poster here. She posted BTL yesterday to set the record straight about how much was "edited" out of her letter, which was disgusting.

Going as far as rewriting a letter to tighten it up due to space restraints is one thing, leaving out stuff on purpose so they can heap on snarky judgments is another. This was not editing, it was outright manipulation, and this is NOT what freedom of press is supposed to be about. Yrrrrch.

Red, nobody knows what happened to Jean and her mother. They just stopped posting.

@nanchan
FYI, I also post on sites where there is a bot flagging whatever. I would gladly trade the privilege to use the occasional profanity against the disciplining of posters who call other posters ridiculous, a b!tch and ignorant... (among other name-calling that is not a four-letter word) and then have the hypocrisy to pull a victim number when called to task about their verbal abuse.
Comment: #25
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Mon Feb 6, 2012 8:57 AM
I read yesterday's BTL up to Samantha's original post. Thanks for filling Red and me in. Sad to see a BTL'er leave. I hope she comes back.

@Chris: What did you think of Madge's performance last night???

@Rick #19: and now a Cher reference?? I'm loving all these gay icon appearances on the BTL!
Comment: #26
Posted by: Casey
Mon Feb 6, 2012 9:05 AM
@Rick, I would appreciate your attempt at support had any decent emotion remained in my body after yesterday's travesty; however, I do not think even the Gay Holy Trinity of Cher, Liza, and Madonna could snap me out of this melancholia.

<insert deep, heavy, dramatic sigh here>
Comment: #27
Posted by: Mike H
Mon Feb 6, 2012 9:13 AM
Re: Mike H - Now you're getting all Norma Desmond on us. Nice!!
Comment: #28
Posted by: Rick
Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:07 AM
@Rick, I *am* big, it's the *pictures* that got small.
Comment: #29
Posted by: Mike H
Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:19 AM
Re: Mike H - You'll be okay. Just like the chimp, this too shall pass.
Comment: #30
Posted by: Rick
Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:35 AM
Re: Miss Pasko-oh, that's right...i think i remember the news mentioning that it was supposed to be yesterday. son1 tells me that as a refugee from nsj i should care about the giants and be happy if they win. i saw on the news today that new york is planning a tickertape parade for them down the canyon of heroes. isn't that nice of new york to do that for what is essentially a new stinkin' jersey team [i feel i have the right to call it that, having lived there for 60 years]?
i do feel, however that by glorifying sports 'heroes' it cheapens it for real ones.
Comment: #31
Posted by: alien07110
Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:36 AM
Re: Shannon
I have to agree with Shannon. While the children do not need to be privy to all the details, I think they should know a tactful version of what has led to the divorce. I have read/heard of how keeping the children from all knowledge of wrong-doing can really backfire against the parent trying to protect them. I can think of a few reasons why this woman in particular needs be more honest.
1) After so many years of marriage it is very possible the children will blame her for the divorce. I think she has already paid a very heavy price and doesn't need to lose her relationship with her kids as well.
2) The father already has blamed her publicly for their debt. I have zero doubt that he will slander her heavily and she needs the truth known, at least in a small, intimate circle that includes her children. She is going to need support! Sounds like mommy dearest also will stand behind her son regardless of her actions, so no doubt she'll slander as well.
3) I don't think it's a bad thing for children to understand that there are consequences to actions. Dad didn't just mess up, he is a mess who has treated his wife horribly. While kids don't need all the details, I imagine the children here are older. They could learn a lot from knowing something of what led to the divorce. Honestly, due to infidelity in my own family when I was a child, I learned a very strong message of the need to be faithful and the hurt is caused by not being faithful. The message is completely ingrained into who I am.
I also don't think that Dad here has been a good father. When someone is this much of a mess and has this little regard for anyone other than himself, the kids bear the consequences too. I'm sure he still deserves their love and a relationship with them, but I don't think it's safe to say he has been a great dad.
I also think that wife, if she does tell a tactful version of the truth, needs to be the one to address the situation rather than wait to respond. She has been victimized enough and needs to act from a position of strength, and acknowledging the truth in an up-front manner comes across as far more truthful and sincere rather than responding, which looks as if someone is deflecting and slinging accusations. That's my point of view, anyway.
Comment: #32
Posted by: kristen
Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:39 AM
@alien07110, to agree with and hijack your post, the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA) pointedly released a statement to the mayors of Boston and New York asking why they were planning a parade to celebrate a potential Superbowl win, but they hadn't yet planned a parade to celebrate our veterans returning from the Iraq War.

Although a pacifist who essentially opposed both wars, I completely agree that the return of our Iraq War veterans deserves to be celebrated, and it's embarrassing to celebrate a sports victory while basically ignoring our returning vets.
Comment: #33
Posted by: Mike H
Mon Feb 6, 2012 11:41 AM
Hang in there,Mike. Don't ask Mr. De Mille for a close-up . You still have the Bruins.
Comment: #34
Posted by: Michael
Mon Feb 6, 2012 1:32 PM
Re: What to tell the (adult) children when you get divorced

This really is a tricky one, because it greatly depends on what sort of relationship the kids have/had with their father, what sort of relationship they have/had with their mother and a host of other things. In a lot of cases, the kids probably know more than the adults realize -- but as one poster (might have been Lise -- I can't remember -- sorry!) noted, sometimes if they don't know, they will go into deep denial and it can get very ugly. When it comes time to tell the kids that you're getting a divorce, try to gauge their reaction to the news -- it may become very clear very quickly what they do or don't know. Depending on the reaction, you may want to simply say some version of, "your father and I have long failed to see eye to eye about our marriage, and I finally just decided it was for the best to end it." If they press for more details, then they probably don't know what's been going on, at which point you may want to just add some version of, "I do not want to put you in the middle of this, so I'm just going to say that I have been unhappy for a long time. If you start hearing things from your father or your grandmother, please come to me, and I will give you my side of the story then, but I'd like to give them both the benefit of the doubt that they will do the right thing and not put you in the middle of this, either."

If they do know what's been going on, in all likelihood, their response is going to be something along the lines of "it's about time!" And honestly, I'm betting they know. If there have been multiple affairs, and he's yukking it up with Grandma about it, the odds that they have both been careful enough to make sure the kids never heard/saw anything are pretty slim. But on the other hand, these kind of people can have a VERY HIGH self-preservation instinct, so it's possible the kids don't know.
Comment: #35
Posted by: Lisa
Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:06 PM
Kristen

I agree with you to a degree. I don't think the LW should hold back IF (BIG IF here) the children come to her and ask for particulars re: the split. Some posters have almost suggested that the LW lie in order to keep the peace. I don't agree: adult children who ask adult questions are entitled to adult answers. What I have found, with people in my own family, is that if people don't get the answer they know is true from a parent, they will find it out from another family member. The result: a damaged relationship with the parent who lied. The way it is delivered is key: if the leaving parent has an obvious agenda against the other parent (during the divorce preceedings usually) then it's best to keep quiet until the whole thing is over. But there are a lot of questions that can be answered for the children if one of the parents is honest. Honesty bridges the gaps between speculation and reality many many times. From personal experience, I wish my father would have been more honest with me about my parent's divorce. He's been dead now for years, I was blessed to have a fantastic relationship with him in the last years of his life. But he never volunteered information to me (he did however answer me honestly) and I wish I had asked him more. As time goes on, and as everyone heals, the adult children of this divorce deserve honesty in order to fill in the gaps in their lives as well.

Comment: #36
Posted by: nanchan
Mon Feb 6, 2012 2:39 PM
LW1--"I have been married nearly 30 years to someone who is a self-centered, selfish, immature mama's boy." Between your husband's mother, his affairs, the lying and debt I have to ask how you've lasted 30 years?!? You either must have zero self-esteem or are perhaps the most naive woman on the planet. I'm pleased that you've FINALLY decided to leave your loser of husband. Let him go back to mommy; those two deserve each other. As for your adult children, I see no reason why you shouldn't tell them exactly what you've endured over the years. As the Annies pointed out, children aren't stupid and they tend to pick more than you realize. Over the years, I'm fairly confident that they have a pretty clear picture of what kind of man (or lack thereof) their father really is. As adults, your children have already come to the conclusion that the world isn't perfect and that there are a lot of ugly truths out there. Your story happens to be one of them so feel free to tell it like it is. With everything your husband took from you, why should you leave him with a single shred of dignity or respect?

LW2--"We're afraid if we tell one set of friends we are inviting the other, neither set will show up." Don't you just hate it when other people's immaturity spills over into your life? I agree with the Annies once again in that you should graciously invite both couples and if they can't act like grown ups for a few hours in order to celebrate your milestone then let them both stay home. Geesh! It's been 10 years; I would think these people can pull it together for a dinner party full of other people without making the evening all about them.

I'm off to write a 'Thank You' to the Annies for not publishing another letter about 'Thank You' notes today! Whooot! I can't, however, remember where I misplaced my stationery... it must be a mental illness or the dreaded menopause...
Comment: #37
Posted by: Chris
Mon Feb 6, 2012 3:26 PM
Re: Chris

in your case wouldn't it be menonmenopause?
Comment: #38
Posted by: nanchan
Mon Feb 6, 2012 3:52 PM
Re: Lisa
"but as one poster (might have been Lise -- I can't remember -- sorry!) noted, sometimes if they don't know, they will go into deep denial and it can get very ugly."

It was wkh.

@Chris
No. It's the dreaded man-o-pause.
Comment: #39
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Mon Feb 6, 2012 3:54 PM
LW1 These 'children' were raised in that environment - they know what their mother went through. This was not a happy marriage and those kids suffered right along with Mom. Whether they know everything or just some of it, they know. He is their father, bad, good or indifferent. He is half of them. The kids are not going to want to hear it. It IS hard to keep your mouth shut and not drag them into the hateful mess - making them take sides. But don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. Complain and gripe to your friends - trash that piece of pooh (just for you Lise ;0) ), but do not do it to the kids/adults. You will gain nothing. Please remember - they did nothing and shouldn't be hurt more that they already are.
Comment: #40
Posted by: Penny
Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:25 PM
@Michael, you have given me a glimmer of hope. Thank you.
Comment: #41
Posted by: Mike H
Mon Feb 6, 2012 4:53 PM
Re: Mike H- once again, we are on the same page.
Comment: #42
Posted by: alien07110
Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:14 AM
LW1 - OMG, you married Howard from Big Bang Theory!!
Comment: #43
Posted by: Paul W
Tue Feb 7, 2012 10:27 AM
LW1: You write about things they've done but you don't write about why you put up with it for 30 years. You're not a victim. He didn't hold you against your will locked in a basement for 30 years. You willingly stayed with this man. You obviously have issues of your own. Fix them.
Comment: #44
Posted by: Diana
Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:55 PM
People, if your marriage sucked, but you tried to keep the kids in the dark, don't count on them never to ask you what really happened. I was determined to find out my parents got married one way or another. My mother warned me that the truth wouldn't be pleasant. That gave me pause, and I didn't press her for a year. Then she finally told me the whole story when I asked again.

Best to write a journal from your perspective of events leading to the divorce. Don't take it as an excuse to call your ex every name in the book. Just state things simply like, "I found another woman's panties in the car." Then give the journal to your children when they ask at around 15 or so. Just put the truth down in writing, and they'll accept the situation better.

As for letter writer two, I'm one of those people who hate being invited to my relatives' house, period. Between the same stories being told ad nauseum, my grandmother acting like Wonder Woman because she does the simplest, and my grandfather always trying to save my soul, X-mas is literally the day from hell for me.

As for the third letter, my Louisiana family makes the KKK look like civil rights workers. The small towns are literally either white or black. It's only the bigger cities that have any kind of integration.
Comment: #45
Posted by: TheRichcraft
Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:01 AM
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