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Ex Con on the Straight and Narrow Canned
Dear Annie: After eight years at my job, I was let go. I have a felony record. The CEO who knew of my background retired last year. He felt I had proved myself and had no problem with me. When he retired, we got an interim CEO. I told him about my …Read more.
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A Match Made in Purgatory
Dear Annie: I am 52 years old, have been divorced for 15 years and am currently involved in a relationship with a wonderful man. "Chuck" lives 80 miles from me, but we have adjusted to the distance and enjoy weekends together. The problem is, he still lives at home with his parents. He's 53, has never been married and is very spoiled.
We are madly in love with each other. He adores my children and grandchildren. And he supported me during some difficult times. We have looked at engagement rings, but that's as far as it has gone. I don't want to continue this if Chuck has no intention of marrying me. Why invest in a relationship that is going nowhere? Whenever I try to talk to him about it, he avoids the conversation.
I do not want to grow old alone. I am ready to make a commitment, but Chuck isn't. Should I end this now before it's too late? I don't want to wait until his parents die. They are in excellent health, and it could be a long time. — Investing and Confused
Dear Investing: If you are looking for a commitment right now, a 53-year-old man who has never been married and still lives with his parents is probably not a good bet. This is especially true if he refuses to discuss the subject. Living independently is how people mature and develop, and Chuck has never had that opportunity. Unless he is acting as caregiver for his parents (and it doesn't seem so), we think you should consider this a wonderful friendship and nothing more.
Dear Annie: I am fed up. Every time my family gets together, the women spend the entire time working while the men sit around and watch TV.
I am so angry about this sexism that I am ready to stop attending these functions. I don't believe that women who work full-time jobs should be expected to slave away in the kitchen doing prep and cleanup, while the men show up, eat a delicious meal and then relax on the couch.
I've voiced my objections to my mother and sister, but while they agree with me, they do nothing to back up my request for help from my father and brother. My brother-in-law will give us a hand, but his son plays on the computer.
What advice do you have for me other than to stop participating? — On Strike
Dear On Strike: If you want the menfolk to help out, you have to insist on it, since they obviously aren't considerate enough to do it voluntarily. Hand your nephew the silverware, and tell him to set the table. Give your brother the plates. Enlist your brother-in-law as an ally. Ask him to inform the guys that they will be clearing the table and putting leftovers away. Tell him it is good training for his son. Your mother and sister may still choose to do most of the work, but it's a start.
Dear Annie: Although "Bummed Out" and "Burned Out" were fortunate that their children eventually gave up drugs and got their lives back on track, I have to say that is not always the case.
I am 22 and am taking care of my 13-year-old brother and 3-year-old sister. My mother has been in and out of drug rehab multiple times, but she is still using. And my grandparents, in their refusal to give up on her, are still "helping."
I am so happy I could get my siblings out of this family dysfunction before they had to go through what I did as a child. So to all the enablers out there: Cut your losses. — The Rest of the Family
Dear Rest: We commend you for taking responsibility for your siblings and understand your desire to cut ties. But parents are loath to give up on a child, and on occasion, their efforts pay off. This is why your grandparents still enable your mother. We hope someday they will find a better way to help her.
Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please e-mail your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 5777 W. Century Blvd., Ste. 700, Los Angeles, CA 90045. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
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Comments
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34 Comments | Post Comment
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Lw1: I think your assessment that your "wonderful man" is "madly in love," is not based in reality -- in his reality, anyway. Why do you think he avoids conversations regarding moving the relationship forward? Because he has no intention of moving it forward, that's why. A 53-year-old man who has never gotten married or moved out of his parents' house isn't about to do so now.
I should think a woman serious about finding a marriage partner would never even have dated this guy in the first place, as he's draped in red flags. It's like you're just a convenient daliance, a break from his real life, a weekend booty call. Get out while you're still young enough to find someone else
Comment: #1
Posted by: Janey
Thu Aug 5, 2010 12:51 AM
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Chuck sounds to me like a case of arrested development. (I have trouble understanding families who don' t give their grown offspring the boot in their 20s, or at least strongly encourage them to move on with their lives.) Not a good prospect for a marriage partner. Move on.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Matt
Thu Aug 5, 2010 1:00 AM
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Matt, your back! Yay...
She should cut her loses...if he is skidish about wedding rings while still living at home tell him to take a hike...
Comment: #3
Posted by: lisameowme
Thu Aug 5, 2010 1:27 AM
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That was a good yay by the way, not a sarcastic yay lol...
Comment: #4
Posted by: lisameowme
Thu Aug 5, 2010 1:28 AM
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For LW2: I think that's the way its been forever. Don't your women folk chat while they work? I always enjoyed that time where it was just the women while we were preparing the meal. Let the men be in front of the TV, then there are no interruptions in our hen chat and we can even talk about them! LOL.
Comment: #5
Posted by: shorty50
Thu Aug 5, 2010 3:59 AM
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The "womenfolk" should finish first and beat them to the couch! see what happens then......
Comment: #6
Posted by: Marie
Thu Aug 5, 2010 4:12 AM
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Earth to LW1, come in LW1. We have an important message for you: Your reality check seems to have bounced! Come on, at 52 years old, LW1 should be able to spot a 'Peter Pan' by now and avoid him like the plague. Does she have zero self-esteem? Drop this super loser and move on.
Once again the Annies are helping to perpetuate the notion that "menfolk" are simpletons who need special handling or "tricks" to get them to do anything around a house. Let's have a little more credit please. Some of us guys are very considerate and actually offer to help out at family events or parties! LW2's relatives, on the other hand, are inconsiderate slobs who are apparently throwbacks from the 1950s. They've been enabled and allowed to get away with sitting on their duffs for generations, apparently and nothing will change unless LW2 takes action herself. Once she gets positive results, I suspect the other women will take her lead and things will quickly change. LW2 needs to simply announce at each of these family function the chores and necessary tasks and assign them as they come up. For example: walk out into the living room and say "Jim, I need you to come into the kitchen and help peel potatoes; Joe, you and Robby set the table." Give them five minutes to spring into action and then go out and physically turn off the television, computer, video game system or whatever distraction is keeping people from their appointed tasks with a firm reminder that "dinner isn't preparing itself." Repeat as often as needed.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Chris
Thu Aug 5, 2010 4:24 AM
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LW3: Annies are wrong I suspect in this case, as a recovering alcoholic, I can tell you that under no circumstances has enabling (helping) an alcoholic has ever stopped an alcoholic from drinking, maybe prolonged it. Unless the "help" includes conditions of going to AA, giving them a ride, or helping them get into treatment or detox, an alcoholic isn't going to listen to anyone other than another alcoholic. -m sorry you're mother made things so difficult for you, I really am, however my sympathies lie with her for the most part because she is being enabled & you just can't ubderstand the pain & self-loathing she is most likely hiding, its extremely difficult to quit and without ultimatums (followed through) & consequences, an alcoholic doesn't stop. I know because my parents "enebled " me for 15 yrs, because they couldn't take seeing me homeless. I don't know how many times they took me back into their home because I couldn't pay my bills, or they'd pay them for me, bail me out of jail.....at the time , of course, this is what I though I needed, but it only prolonged my recovery. Best wishes to her, its a tough battle but it gets so much easier after a while.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Crissy
Thu Aug 5, 2010 5:11 AM
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To the girl who is taking care of her siblings from her drug addicted mother, her grandparents could best help by putting their resources in their grandchildren. Rather than enable their daughter, their time and effort could be be used helping the next generation be successful and drug free.
That 22 year old is courageous, she deserves much more from her grandparents than her mother does.
Comment: #9
Posted by: mom22militarymen
Thu Aug 5, 2010 5:53 AM
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Re: mom22militarymen
What you said! Now that you've made that point I'm pretty mad that the grandparents are investing everything in their daughter instead of the one who's being the real Mom in the picture. What a sad situation.
Comment: #10
Posted by: PS
Thu Aug 5, 2010 6:08 AM
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Re: mom22militarymen That is what I was wondering. I see lots of kids being raised by grandparents these days because of irresponsible parents on drugs or alcohol. It is commendable that a 22 year old would step forward to do so, but at 22 he/she should be starting a career or getting the education to do so, and finding a lifemate, not raising siblings. This is a case of irresponsible grandparents, too, in more ways than just enabling the mother. As to the letter about men watching TV while the women worked in the kitchen. It is just possible that mom and sister actually like it that way. Years ago we went to a small country church that had very regular potlucks. A new young pastor suggested that since some of the families lived so far out in the country, that it would save a lot of time for everyone, and it would certainly make cleanup easier if they would start using paper plates like "city churches" did at potlucks. It was the women who voted it down. It was their time to socialize, just the women without husbands and little kids. OnStrike needs to find out why mom and sis won't push for the men to help. If they just don't want to go through the hassle of trying to get the men to help, asking for help on specific tasks like the Annie's suggest is an excellent start. If they actually like having time of just the women in the kitchen, On Strike needs to back off.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Elizabeth
Thu Aug 5, 2010 6:27 AM
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LW1 - Let's see. You admit he's spoiled, he skirts the issue of marriage, and he and his parents are both apparently just fine with their, um, living arrangements.
As it is when his parents die, his issues won't go with them. He'll still be spoiled, and he'll still refuse to commit.
Does that sound like someone worth your salt?
I think you know the answer to your own dilemma. If you don't, then pretend you're reading your own letter as if it's from a friend or acquaintance, and that person was asking your advice. Then, follow through on what your answer would be.
LW2 - I like Marie's suggestion best :-)
LW3 - My heart goes out to you. I'm truly PO'd that you've been left to your own devices while your "mother" and "grandparents" have decided to remain sucked into their own vortex.
Crissy is right - enabling never helped an addict recover. Even the folks who wrote the Big Book acknowledge addiction is a disease of selfishness. I wish your grandparents would see this and let your "mother" fall on her butt, then concentrate on helping YOU raise the other kids so that they have an even safer and more supportive environment. As it is it sounds like you're doing a great job with them - bless you and millions of kudos to what you're doing.
Comment: #12
Posted by: PS
Thu Aug 5, 2010 6:29 AM
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LW1: Just walk away--he's not going to change.
LW2: You can certainly try as my grandmother did. We even took pictures of all the guys doing dishes that ONE time. Never saw it happen again. But it was entertaining!
LW3: You are the bestest! To take matters into your own hands and raise these children make you a superstar in the eyes of the neighbors, teachers, and everyone else you come in contact with! But I might have to disagree with the other commentors suggesting you get the grandparents to help with their own grandchildren--aren't they the ones who sat by and idly watched their child get sucked into a life of addiction with no change of their behavior to cause a change in hers? I would actually suggest you keep these "grandies" away from the kids, as you don't want them to encourage or passively accept the same behavior in your siblings!
Comment: #13
Posted by: chaz
Thu Aug 5, 2010 7:11 AM
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Many many kudo's to the 22 yo taking care of his/her siblings. The level of maturity and concern shows a great deal about your character. But please try to find compassion for a mother that is lost in vile world that is so hard to leave. Talk with your grandparents, try to enlist them into practicing a little bit of hard love. And for your self, try attending a support group meeting for children of alcoholics so that you may have a better understanding of what is going on. Not through the eyes of an abused child. But through the eyes of one who loves and cares about your mother and need to understand the why's of her addiction.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Tom
Thu Aug 5, 2010 7:11 AM
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LW2 - Make arrangements for the next meal to be 'all done' by the men in the family. Show up and sip tea and chat while they do all the prep, cooking, serving, setting the table, clean up, etc. Make sure to insist that they do not do take out, thats too easy. I don't think that it would be any fun to make the men work with you when they are doing so begrudgingly, they will just do as poor a job as they can get away with and mess things up. If they are in charge of their own meal, they will hopefully take pride in it and try to do it well.
Just my thoughts.
Comment: #15
Posted by: Jen
Thu Aug 5, 2010 7:49 AM
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I agree w LW2's frustrations... been there. Usually in my family the other women don't seem to mind or think its weird. I am of the younger generation and it really P$$'s me off. Women spend the time serving the men and babysitting/playing with the children (I do not have kids) and the men go in the other room and talk about entertaining stuff. Finally I just started joining the men and have had a great time since... Even though my aunt thinks Im a jerk now... :)
Comment: #16
Posted by: julie
Thu Aug 5, 2010 7:50 AM
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I've told my husband that I don't enjoy going to his family gatherings because the men: eat, plunk down on the couch and watch TV, eat, go out and play golf, eat, more TV. While the women cook and clean up and cook and clean up, and so on. Since his parents live so far away, I'm talking about 3 days of this, not just an afternoon.
Good luck on getting anything to change though. My MIL thinks this is the way it ought to be. If it were my house, when one of the men asked "What's for dinner," I'd say, "Whatever you want to fix."
Comment: #17
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Thu Aug 5, 2010 8:43 AM
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It's scary to think what's going to happen to LW1's boyfriend when his parents DO die, if he's never had to face the trials of the real world. My guess is he will squander away what inheritance he gets, if any, and then be living life on the street.
Comment: #18
Posted by: Paul W
Thu Aug 5, 2010 8:50 AM
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Dear Annie,
My wife and I recently got pregnant after many years of trying. Recently my wife saw a friend while at the grocery store with her mom. She congratulated my wife and said to the mom,” you must be excited!" The mom replied ahhh. The friends face dropped and quickly dismissed her self as my wife asked her mom what she meant. She said nothing and my wife was furious. This is not the first time her mom has ruined a happy occasion but here's the kicker. My wife asked for an apology and the mom apologized, then my wife asked do you know why you're apologizing? The mom replied no! She got back home told her father and I what happened. I was furious and the father face dropped and he said," She said that," I tried to talk to her but she looked away as if I was not there. Finally I said you have over stayed your welcome and asked her to leave. A week later the wife, who gets daily phone calls from her parents has not received anything. She called her dad to go to breakfast, "he replied I cannot have anything to do with you unless you apologize to your mother."
Annie I have felt for a long time the parents are Narcissistic, in fact years ago my wife saw a psychiatrist who called them toxic parents. Would I be wrong to not let my child spend time alone with her parents (supervised)? The kid has to see the grandparents but I don't want him/her exposed to that. My wife is very stressed about this and is now blaming her self. She wants the parents to call in a few days as we will find out what sex the baby, I don't think they care and the parents are getting a Narcissistic high. Could you please explain what Narcissistic/toxic parents are and tell us if we are wrong?
Thanks
Soon to be Daddy
Comment: #19
Posted by: walter
Thu Aug 5, 2010 9:03 AM
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LW2 - who does the work when the families aren't together? If the men never lift a hand at home, why would they expect to at a get-together?
But if you really want to get the guys to do a share of the work, why not say the next get-together is a barbecue? The guys will expect to do at least some work there.
Comment: #20
Posted by: jenl1625
Thu Aug 5, 2010 9:20 AM
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Re: Janey --- I agree there are red flags. However, my divorced sister, at the age of 50, married a 53 year old man who had never been married. He did help care for his aged father(in his 80s) but didn't live with him. So perhaps that was the difference - not living his whole life with mommy and daddy. But now, 12 years have gone by and their marriage is strong. So I wouldn't give up on a person just because he/she'd never been married and is past his so-called "prime." But certainly the bf's refusal to make a serious commitment is reason for the lw to let her guy go back to mommy and daddy. (My mom used to say that she thought it good for a woman to live on her own before getting married because it would give her a dose of reality of what life is about and make her a better spouse. I guess if she'd had sons, she would have included men in that statement but I don't think she'd ever known any men who went directly from mommy and daddy's home to his marital home as was often the case with young women. The older I get, the smarter I realize my mom was.)
Comment: #21
Posted by: Pat-tricia
Thu Aug 5, 2010 9:36 AM
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Re: Marie ---HA! If only.... I'll put less than half the food on my plate than what my husband and son put on theirs. Yet they finish way ahead of me. Of course I don't put a ton of food on my fork for every bite. Every once in awhile, I'll catch my son putting a huge amount on his fork and I'll tell him he's going to choke on it but it's talking to deaf ears. He'll put less on his fork for a a few bites and then it's back to his style. My husband just seems to eat fast. I give up; it's better than nagging. One day one of them will choke and my point will have been made. ;-( But I will say this for my guys - They do usually help clear the table and will help with other clean up when I ask.
Comment: #22
Posted by: Pat-tricia
Thu Aug 5, 2010 9:45 AM
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LW:3.recovering akcoholic again here, I just wanted to say you are an amazing person. Fortunately the best thing you can is is also the easiest (which almost never seems to be the case in most situations! Lol!) If the grandparents want to help YOU then let them, but they should definately drop you're mother like a live snake, she will suck the very life out of them before she quits. I KNOW! I DID IT!! Dump her off at the nearest Detox facility or emergency room & tell her this is it. You've had it, she can get help THIS MINUTE or you'll never speak to her again, sounds mean but alcoholics MUST be forced to sink or swim, she'll probably swim if your grandparents will leave her alone & focus on you, if they don't, she'll die & it will be just as much their fault as it will be hers. & I wouldt let thr grandparents back into my life. Show them this letter and give all 3 of them an ultimatum & stick to it, if the don't come around instantly, give it time, don't give in. Also, the best time to confront your mother with this is in the morning before her 1st drink (dump the booze if you ca find it, check EVERYWHERE, it'll probably be close to her or in her bathroom) she'll be weak & remoresful then with no defenses, she can get into medical detox or the er & they'll medicate her to make it easier, then THEY will have someone from AA or ttreatment come & take her to a safe place where she'll be loved & most importantly, understood. I hope it works Sweetie!! Stay strong.
Comment: #23
Posted by: Crissy
Thu Aug 5, 2010 10:16 AM
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Re LW2: Nothing wrong with women enjoying some time to socialize with the other women, and men with the other men, but why should the women have to WORK while they're doing it??? Totally unfair. Big fat double standard. One approach would be to alternate: On one occasion the women do the cooking and clean-up; on the next, the men do it. (Or the women do cooking and men do clean-up; next time the men do cooking and women do clean-up.) That way everybody gets some same-gender and mixed-gender social time.
Comment: #24
Posted by: Van Wickle
Thu Aug 5, 2010 10:20 AM
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In our family gatherings, women still cook, but the men get the dishes. The issue is I think your mother & sister only half-mind the issue, otherwise they'd support your efforts or help cook up a scheme.
If your BIL helps out when asked, maybe you get him on your side to get the guys to, set the table, or clean the dessert dishes or something; at least his own son whom he should be able to have control over.
Comment: #25
Posted by: Mich
Thu Aug 5, 2010 10:32 AM
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LW1, I agree with all the other posters who advised you to disentangle yourself from this guy NOW - that is, if you actually want marriage. Just be prepared for him to suddenly change his mind when you do find someone willing to make a commitment to you. Don't let yourself be swayed. I think you'd just end up taking the place of Mommy and Daddy.
Soon to be Daddy/Walter - if you can't figure out that this is the comment section and not the place where you write to the Annies, how are you going to figure out how to change a diaper? It's also very difficult to figure out what your problem is.
Comment: #26
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Thu Aug 5, 2010 11:56 AM
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re: LW3 / Crissy - reread Annie's advice; it doesn't say sometimes enabling works. It says that parents don't want to give up on a child, and that's why they enable, and if they want to help then hopefully they can find a way to help that is NOT enabling.
Comment: #27
Posted by: Steve
Thu Aug 5, 2010 12:18 PM
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To Investing & Confused: You are THE ONE investing in this relationship, not Chuck. Chuck doesn't seem to be confused & I don't really think you are confused either! Let's see: Chuck lives 80 miles away from you & you see each other only on weekends (wow, that's commitment or is it convenience!); you are "madly in love" yet he refuses to talk about a commitment; you say he is 'very spoiled." If you are aware of that, really, does that attract you to him? You mention not wanting to wait until his parents die for a commitment from Chuck. Why in the world do you think his parents' death would magically make him commit to you? Has he told you that? If so, honey, he was handing you a line, an excuse, trying to string you along. Frankly, you don't sound very compatible~~you have children, grandchildren, & expectations & have no doubt lived life as an independent grown-up for a good while now. I say cut your losses & forget considering this a 'wonderful friendship' If you "do not want to grow old alone" you need to dump Chuck & start hunting for a gentlemen who also wants to commit to someone in his golden years!
Comment: #28
Posted by: AL
Thu Aug 5, 2010 12:44 PM
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To LW3: You sound like a very mature responsible 22 y/o & I applaud you for what you are doing for your younger brother & sister. Your grandparents sound as if they are more focused on your mom than you & your siblings & for that I am sorry. Best of luck to you & your siblings. I hope you will be richly blessed for your efforts & are able to find the support/resources you need to rear your siblings.
Comment: #29
Posted by: AL
Thu Aug 5, 2010 12:54 PM
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Steve, if her parents weren't "ENABLING" her, she either be homeless, in jail or in a nuthouse by now. If they are cushioning her "rock bottom" she's as good as dead. You never give up on an alcoholic, but you don't ever pick up their slack, the grandparents shouldn't be doing anything other than telling her they love her, & when she's drinking, they shouldn't be coddling or even talking to her. She's got to do this on her own. It is VERY possible that they are unknowingly loving their daughter to death. I see it all the time. Are you an alcoholic? No? Then you don't understand & you never will. Be grateful.
Comment: #30
Posted by: Crissy
Thu Aug 5, 2010 7:45 PM
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Crissy - like I said, reread the advice. Help without enabling. Pretty much the same thing you said, not sure why you're arguing. We're all saying the same thing, there's just some sort of a communication problem.
Sorry, but your huge assumption about me (like your huge assumption about Annie's advice) doesn't fly, I have a sister who is not an alcoholic, but is bipolar and won't take her meds, and when she is off of them she is so dangerous that she is currently locked up by the state. We, especially my father, tried to "help" her for many many years by providing money and apartments for her, since she was too crazy to work. After she was thrown out of 4 apartment buildings - and, finally, 2 private cottages, and starting verbally attacking my father (and physically attacking others), he realized that he couldn't help her, someone would have to force her to take her meds, which is what is now happening, and has been for many years. It is very sad, but there is no solution, and I continue to get frightening emails from her. I tell her I love her, I sometimes bring her candy and books in the hospital, and my brother and I are the only ones in the world who she doesn't think are trying to kill her. So far.
Comment: #31
Posted by: Steve
Thu Aug 5, 2010 8:55 PM
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Crissy - like I said, reread the advice. Help without enabling. Pretty much the same thing you said, not sure why you're arguing. We're all saying the same thing, there's just some sort of a communication problem.
Sorry, but your huge assumption about me (like your huge assumption about Annie's advice) doesn't fly, I have a sister who is not an alcoholic, but is bipolar and won't take her meds, and when she is off of them she is so dangerous that she is currently locked up by the state. We, especially my father, tried to "help" her for many many years by providing money and apartments for her, since she was too crazy to work. After she was thrown out of 4 apartment buildings - and, finally, 2 private cottages, and starting verbally attacking my father (and physically attacking others), he realized that he couldn't help her, someone would have to force her to take her meds, which is what is now happening, and has been for many years. It is very sad, but there is no solution, and I continue to get frightening emails from her. I tell her I love her, I sometimes bring her candy and books in the hospital, and my brother and I are the only ones in the world who she doesn't think are trying to kill her. So far.
Comment: #32
Posted by: Steve
Thu Aug 5, 2010 8:55 PM
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Run...run as far as you can.
Comment: #33
Posted by: Josie
Fri Aug 6, 2010 8:46 PM
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on strike : the women in our family got tired of this about 10 years ago. Now everybody brings a dish to Thanksgiving/Christmas , and is responsible for their leftovers. This allows the women to talk or watch fooball with us after the meal. ( and yes, we have alot of football women in our family) Everybody is MUCH happier!
Comment: #34
Posted by: Micheal
Sat Aug 7, 2010 5:52 PM
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