Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1 -
Frankly,. while I REALLY do feel for you and especially for your daughter, I am wondering why YOU are writing in and not her?

I would suggest she document everything. I don't know who she can turn to to defend her againts a hositle environment (perhaps the union rep?), especially since the principal seems to be siding with the vicious b!tches. If there is no one, then I suggest she start looking for other employment, as this is very unlikely to change... all the while documenting everything AND getting an aggressive lawyer - methinks there is grounds for a lawsuit here.

P.S.: "What kind of example is this for teachers to set for the children"? Frankly, astonished mom, and let's be realistic here, the children have no idea of what's going on in the teachers' lounge.

LW2 -
The Annies are right. This is a ploy to sell more tickets, not to match you up. They're not gonna get an camcorder set up to make sure you fvck if you and your best friend pretend to be a couple just to get the discount.

P.S.: Chill.

LW2: "And please don't suggest that two friends go together and get the discount". I don't get it. Why not?

Related pet peeve of mine... When companies advertise prices that are actually half of the total price. E.g. $100 to Boston! (fine print: each way with round trip). Cruise to the Bahamas only $400! (for half of a cabin. For a whole cabin (to yourself), it is $800).

* * * * PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT * * * *

LW3 refers to the first letter on 20 February 2013.

Lise,
I agree with you that it is odd that the mother is writing in, but I think this helicopter mom is part of the problem. Her daughter is an educated adult. What is she supposed to document? Nobody brought her a birthday cake? Nobody ate her birthday cookies?
If what the mother is saying is true, it seems like there might be some hostility toward the daughter, but breaking into a well-established group of people in the workplace, any workplace, takes some treading water, observing, and being careful. Maybe the older teachers are threatened or jealous if the new teacher has the advanced degree and they don't, or maybe she is gorgeous.
It is a fact that people in the workplace form their little groups, and they gossip, even at the highest executive levels. Back in the day when I was a secretary to the CFO of a Fortune 500 company, he used to ask me the most nosy, personal questions about people who worked in our company.
This teacher needs to grow up, walk into that teacher's lounge, rather than run away, and start speaking up. Of course the teachers are going to share horror stories about students and their parents, because the fact is that some students are awful, and some parents are worse. And the teachers share their stories in the lounge. The principal was probably right to tell her that the other teachers thought she was "cold" for running away. I don't know how this woman will be a successful teacher in the real world if she cannot navigate what is more than likely the average teacher lounge environment.
My humble opinion, of course, but I think a lawyer would listen, and kind of laugh about the possibility that this adult. educated, woman who was hired to teach students, cannot navigate her own way through the social environment where she is employed. Surely, she did not land in the only school like this.

LW1: Older teacher is threatened by LW's daughter. Daughter should use her excellent social skills in the teacher lounge by not badmouthing other teachers and doing more listening than talking. She's the new kid on the block and it will take her a while to be accepted by the others. With a little kindness and a lot of determination, she will succeed.

LW2: Promoting events is challenging and you can't please everyone.

LW3: I don't remember the original letter but the advice to avoid your druggie friends was very good. I remember a former druggie co-worker who started going to church and turned her life around. Druggies do not like to hang around with non-druggies and they will sabotage your efforts toward sobriety.

Re: PuaHone The original LW in L3 said his family was unsupportive and wouldn't go to Nar-Anon. The advice to avoid druggie friends is good, but the advice to turn in his pusher as part of his recovery is terrible. Like there's only one source of drugs in the world?

LW1 - I agree with PuaHone - if the LW's daughter has the excellent social skills she attributes to her, then she should be able to figure out how to deal with the other teachers. The "new kid" on the block is almost always an outsider at first, and avoiding the established group isn't the way to be accepted anywhere. She doesn't have to take part in gossip, but it's only natural for the teachers to discuss problems with the parents and children when they're together in the teachers' lounge. I don't see this as setting a bad example for the children, since I doubt they hang out in the teachers' lounge!
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I also find it interesting that the mother is writing in about the problem and not the daughter herself. It sounds as though the LW has been solving her daughter's problems for her all her life, and she should probably back off and let her daughter figure things out for herself.
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LW2 - The LW is seeing the discount as the event planners discriminating against single people and trying to promote getting them to pair off into couples. That isn't the intent or reason for the discount at all. The main purpose of any event is to make money, and the discount encourages more people to attend. And why does the LW think it's such a problem for two friends to buy prom tickets together? That doesn't mean they have to hang out together once they get to the prom. I think the LW seems to be just LOOKING for reasons to find discrimination where none exist.

LW1 - As the punk band Bowling for Soup says...high school never ends. And your daughter's work place proves it. More or less, the ringleader of the group got her panties in a twist that your daughter stopped going into the teacher's lounge so she ran tattling to the principal. Now the ringleader has told her croonies to not speak to you and, like immature babies, they're obeying her. If I was your daughter, I'd keep to myself, do my job and leave for the day, all while looking for another job (I know it's very hard, especially for teachers). I'm sure it's not against the rules to avoid the Teacher's Lounge. OR...I would tell her to continue going in there and be herself. They may eventually come around to her. But in the meantime...look for another school.

LW2 - The Annies are right. Nobody is looking to punish the single people. They simply do it as a promotion to get more ticket sales. Same with the "Family Deal" a lot of places have. A family of four will pay $100 to get in but single ticket purchases are $35. It's simply to make money. Trust me, the promotions staff isn't in a conference room, laughing and say, "I have an idea! Let's make the single people feel like unwanted trash and only give the deal to couples and families! We hate single people and don't want them near our establishment! Muaaahahahahaha!"

Lw1: the teacher. She doesn't have good social skills or she would have realized that to avoid the teachers lounge was not a solution.
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Lw2: the tickets. A friend and I bought a pair of tickets and went to a charity fundraiser. We saved a few dollars, but more important, we both went.
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Lw3: the druggie. Of course he should turn his pusher in! Do you really think there would be no prosecution because it's only the one guy?

if you and your best friend pretend to be a couple just to get the discount.
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You don't have to pretend anything! You ARE "a couple". You're "a couple of people who want to go to the same event."

That's exactly what the organizers are looking for. They don't care if you bring your spouse, your grandma or your boss's spouse -- they want two rear ends in the seats, and that's it.

LW1: Yeah, it's her daughter's battle, but I don't think the fact that Mom wrote in means she's a helicopter parent. I think it suggests only that Daughter is frustrated and has asked Mom-- a person she trusts -- for ideas on what to do, that Mom is afraid of suggesting anything that could make Daughter's situation worse and so Mom turned to a person SHE trusts for advice. Daughter may not think advice columns are worth writing in to if they're not part of her world.

And I don't think the fact that Daughter's in trouble now contradicts Mom's claim that Daughter has excellent social skills. Even people with excellent social skills can have trouble navigating the change to a work environment, where "social" rules don't always apply. Avoiding the teacher lounge because she didn't like the chatter there was a rookie employee mistake, not the mark of someone who has no social skills.

I think the Annies laid out Daughter's options pretty well. I think the best one, at this point, is to keep her head down and work hard, to establish a good reference when she applies to another school. Asking the principal to step in not only may "not be effective" -- as the Annies caution -- it may come back to haunt her when the principal is asked by potential employers whether she was a troublemaker.

LW1: If the situation is as you describe, then the Annies advice seems reasonable. However, what you should consider is that perhaps your daughter's social skills aren't as "excellent" as you believe they are (inability to truly assess your child's weaknesses is a not-uncommon failing in parents).

If she was the only teacher not eating in the lounge, then of course she would be seen as "aloof", or even that she is "uppity". Perhaps she was also seen as "bragging" about her education level; novice teachers also often seem idealistic and may downplay the years of wisdom that experienced teachers have.

Finally, what you daughter interpreted as gossiping may have simply been colleagues "blowing off steam", which can actually be healthy and reasonable. Perhaps your daughter jumped to conclusions too quickly and is now seen as "judgmental", too.

It may be too late for your daughter to mend her relationships with these co-workers; however, if she would like to make an honest attempt, perhaps she should simply go to the ringleader and say "Listen, I obviously got off on the wrong foot with everyone. I know that I'm new and just a few years out of school, and I know I have a lot to learn about how it works in the real world. Can you help me? I'd really like to get along better with everyone and obviously I've done a very poor job of that."

I'm betting that if your daughter appeals to the ringleader as a potential mentor, the ringleader will be flattered. And if your daughter hides her negative feelings about their "gossip", and instead listens to see if it is simply good-natured "blowing off steam" about difficult students and parents, then she may find herself being more accepted.

Sometimes in life we have to "go along to get along". It's not always pleasant, but it could make your daughter's work life happier while she secretly looks for another position in another school.

LW2: This is just about marketing, not about sending any sort of "social policy" message. If it brings in more customers and makes more money, then event organizers will keep doing it.

You're over-thinking this, and reading much more into it than is there.

LW3: That's certainly one way to do it, but isn't necessarily the only way, or even the best way. (Even anonymously turning a pusher in may still lead to payback, for example). Everyone's situation is a little different.

It shows how much recent music has really changed when Bowling for Soup is considered "punk" o.O

LW1: I have a feeling it's going to be another peaceful day here at BTL. I agree with what everyone is saying. Tell your daughter to plaster a smile on her face, go into that teacher's lounge and get to know her co-workers. Your daughter probably is aloof and snobby, but it's hard for parents to see their kids' defaults. Oh, and also tell her to grow a thicker skin. She was upset because no one ate her snacks... Really? * really? * I wish I had her problems. Maybe no one ate her snacks, because she's not a good baker. Or, God forbid, she brought in healthy snacks. Yuck.

Argh! Annies, once again, will you PLEASE teach your editor the difference between disinterested and uninterested. The teachers did NOT act DISINTERESTED, which means IMPARTIAL. They acted UNINTERESTED. Why do you keep misusing that word?
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LW2, if this bugs you so much, I hope you're also petitioning the government to stop the unfair practice of making married couples file their income taxes jointly, taking more money from them individually than from a single person. And probably the reason for the ticket discount is that most people still expect guys to pay the full pop for a date, so they're paying for both tickets and may not bother asking a date if it gets too cost-prohibitive.

LW1--Honey, I hate to break it to you, or your wonderful, gifted, intelligent sociable daughter but the dynamic you describe can be found in one form or another in practically every single place where more than one person gathers, including most workplaces. First impressions can make or break you. Has it occurred to you that your daughter presented herself as a highfalutin arrogant snob who was too good to associate with the teachers and that's why she finds herself outcast? Does it occur to you that you're far too invested in your adult daughter's workplace social life? Copter much? Inform your daughter that she cannot change other people's behavior, only her own. Targeting the "ringleader" isn't going to do her any good and will probably escalate the hostilities. What she needs to do is come down out of her ivory tower and socialize with her coworkers on their level while killing them with kindness. They'll remain frigid at first, but eventually (hopefully) warm up. If not, your daughter should recognize this as a valuable life lesson in learning to build camaraderie with colleagues and getting along with people of varying personalities. In the meantime, get a hobby for yourself and stop getting yourself wrapped up in your daughter's workplace drama. She's an adult now so let her fight her own battles.

LW2--Let me guess, you're either the mother of, or are, the awkward nerdy wallflower who never gets' asked out or is picked last for kickball. Sorry but the world isn't fair and it's better if you learned that valuable lesson sooner rather than later.

LW1 -- I think you've gotten some excellent advice on this. It's hard to say whether you are a helicopter mom who is actually part of the problem or if, as hedgehog suggests, you are writing in on behalf of your daughter because she asked your advice and you weren't sure what to say. If it's the former -- please butt out. Your daughter will figure it out, one way or another. If it's the latter, you've got lots of suggestions here for your daughter to consider.

LW2 -- This is your biggest problem and your great crusade? Really? My husband and I used to do a silent auction every year to raise money for a local charity. The more people we can get in the door, the more people there are to bid on the auction items, the more bids there are, the higher the price goes, and the higher the price goes, the more money we raise for the charity. It's simple math that has nothing to do with trying to push coupledom over being single.

LW1 -

Stop mothering your daughter! Holy crap! She's an adult with a grownup job and grownup problems. She does NOT need her mom writing to an advice columnist because she's being bullied at work!

And I'll tell you exactly what happened. Your daughter, gung ho and full of youthful ignorance probably got seriously smug and superior at her new job, and now she's paying for that. IF she chooses to stay in that school, she is going to have to a) document bullying but also b) start to earn the friendship of her peers and it won't be easy. She can report the bullying, but she can't *make* people like her and if her complaints are "no one ate the snacks I brought" no one is going to take her seriously.

LW2 -

Haha, WHAT?! A little sore because you can't get a date, eh?

Chris' post at 17 took me back to my first job out of college -- it was that small daily newspaper I've referred to in previous posts. Unbeknownst to me, just after I was hired but right before my first day on the job, the managing editor of the newspaper, during an editorial meeting, told the staff about the new person he had just hired. And here's what he basically told them:

1) Unlike some of you, she has a college degree -- in fact, she's got two of them.
2) Unlike some of you, she had a prestigious journalism internship in her final semester working for one of the state's most well-thought-of editors who, in fact, took the time to call me and several other editors who were considering hiring her to tell us we were idiots if we didn't hire her.
3) Unlike all of you, she is originally from a major metropolitan city, not this podunk town.
4) And by the way, she's so fabulous that I am not giving her an entry-level position -- she will be taking over our flagship weekend edition and will also be tasked with creating new feature sections.

He may as well have said, "you people are so completely outclassed by her, she is WAY better than you are." Not surprisingly, I didn't get the warmest of welcomes from the staff, and I couldn't figure out why. Meanwhile, the managing editor was clearly thrilled with my work and singled me out for brainstorming sessions on special projects, etc. So, I knew the problem wasn't that I wasn't doing good work. I just kept chipping away, being friendly, offering to help out with stuff, etc. Slowly but surely I won the staff over, and one day, a couple of the other reporters told me about that infamous editorial meeting and that everyone therefore assumed I was some snob from the big city with two fancy college degrees who was going to think she was way too good for everyone else and the town, in general. I guess the managing editor had hoped that showering me with those accolades was going to be a way to give some folks (who had gotten a bit complacent and maybe a little comfortable in their positions) a kick in the pants and just didn't realize how this was going to sabotage me in the newsroom.

A couple of things that helped me break through (and I did these things before I even knew about what all had been said about me):

1) I started volunteering at the local high school, which sent the message that I wanted to be PART of the community, not above the community.

2) I made jokes about my ignorance about life in a small town -- and I was careful to ensure the jokes were on ME, not on the town or the residents.

3) I asked for help and advice on stories, projects, etc. -- sending the message that I understood the value of real, in-the-trenches experience, not just education. I made jokes like, "sure, I've got two college degrees, but I have no idea where the bathroom at City Hall is located!"

Again, I did these things not even knowing how they would counteract what had been said about me, since I didn't even know what had been said about me. But when the other staffers saw me doing/saying these things, it didn't match up with what they have been told, and they decided to give me a chance.

I know a number of teachers, and from them I know that one of the things that frequently happens when a new teacher is hired, particularly if that teacher is fresh out of college and the rest of the staff is made up of seasoned veterans -- that shiny new teacher with her shiny new degree goes in armed with her equally-shiny idealism, and it irks the veterans, whose own youthful idealism has long since lost its shine. And as others have noted, this happens in other professions, as well.

@Zoe -- re: LW2. Not just a little sore that s/he can't get a date -- apparently s/he also doesn't have a friend, since s/he specifies "And please don't suggest that two friends go together and get the discount."

LW1: As crappy as the situation is, the truth is that you don't go to work to make friends. You go to work to work. Very few real friends are to be made in work environments. I suggest she hit the bar after school and blow off steam about her immature co-workers with friends who have nothing to do with work.

LW2: Is this for real? Someone is in need of a good fvck.

Re: Carly O #4
Oh, I fully agree with you that she should be dealing with this and not her mom. This is not the LW's battle to fight, as if her daughter was still a little girl being bullied in the schoolyard.

But if she is sulkingly shunned when she walks into the teacher's lounge (sometimes even walking in on a conversation about her), and called "cold and unsociable" when she stays away (and just how would the principal know this, unless the ringleader of the mean girls' club ran to him crying?), it sure looks like a case of be darned if you do, be darned if you don't and that there isn't anything that she can do that will ever be right in their book.

Puahone's advice is excellent, but it is only applicable to normal settings with normal people. This looks more extreme, and the kind of deliberate, targetted bullying that is organised by a ringleader. It is entirely possible that they are all ganging up in their refusal to accept her, and it is also possible that she isn't doing anything wrong. Been there, seen that.

If they're green with envy because she is prettier and/or more educated than they are, I can tell you that this may not be fixable. The bullying will continue for as long as the alpha bully is there, or allowed to get away with her behaviour. In fact, what may happen is that the nicer she is to them, the more they'll hate her guts (cuz now they'll feel guilty too!) and the worse they'll be to compensate. (Been there, seen that too, and more than once.) I'd be curious to know if this is her first assignment and how things went elsewhere.

As for the lawyer, he is the one who can determine if there is ground for anything, what is documentable if anything and how she should proceed.

@Kitty #7
"I think the LW seems to be just LOOKING for reasons to find discrimination where none exist."
Yep. That's called having a chip on her shoulder. Big time.

@Mike H #12
"I'm betting that if your daughter appeals to the ringleader as a potential mentor, the ringleader will be flattered."
Sure is worth a try.

@Jane #16
DISinterested = impartial, as in, without a vested interest in the matter. UNinterested, as in, without an intellectual interest in the matter. Two different meanings to "interest", one literal, the other figurative. Got it. If the Annies don't learn, at least I did. I don't know if I ever made that mistake, but I won't now! Thank you.

You may want to click on "Write the Authors". I doubt they read BTL.

@Zoe #19
"Your daughter, gung ho and full of youthful ignorance probably got seriously smug and superior at her new job, and now she's paying for that."
That's entirely possible. Lots of novices, full en enthusiasm and idealism like you said, are all pretty-pleased and content about the book talk they learned in school. Seen that too, and that too, more than once!

All the hypotheses outlined BTL today are plausible, and it can even be a combination of more than one. It could be that she came in with her high-fallutin', hoity-toity ideas about education and had the misfortune to run afoul of the mother of all bullies, and is now confronted with a full trench war. So whatever is really going on here could go either way. It doesn't help that all we're getting in second-hand information. Sure wish the daughter would chime in!

Re: Volpe
Maybe even a bad one would be better than nothing...;-D

Re: L3
Wow, haven't heard the term "pusher" in a long, long time. Really takes one back to those old anti-drug rants of the 60s and 70s. Anyway, I would not advise turning in your "pusher" (depending on where you live) unless you want your relatives taking a nice little trip to the morgue to identify your head or some other solo body part or you're aspiring toward entry to WITSEC.

Re: Lucy #6
The original LW was also someone who was crying a river because her mother was mad at her for leaving her drug stuff in the bathroom for her 13 year-old sister to find. The lack of support she was complaining about was complete yurunda, she was already not heing kicked out on the street, I don't know just how much more she expected her parents to do. Sure sounded like nothing will ever be "supportive* enough and that her problem will always be someone else's fault.

She came across as very boo-hoo on her precious little self. and I read a lot of excuses and rationalisations for her behaviour in there.

But you're right, the advice to turn in the pusher is absolutely terrible, and I hope the LW reads BTL. She was right about the possibility of the house being confiscated, but not about that. EstherGreewood stated it very well.

Re: Lise B

"But if she is sulkingly shunned when she walks into the teacher's lounge (sometimes even walking in on a conversation about her), and called "cold and unsociable" when she stays away (and just how would the principal know this, unless the ringleader of the mean girls' club ran to him crying?), it sure looks like a case of be darned if you do, be darned if you don't and that there isn't anything that she can do that will ever be right in their book."

I didn't interpret the letter quite that way. From my understanding, she stopped going into the teacher's lounge because they were gossiping about students, parents etc. While I am not really a gossiper by nature, I know that acting "above it all" is not the way to win over new colleagues. Sad truth - but nevertheless. I suspect she acted this way, and someone reported back to the principal (it is also quite possible that the principal asked: "so how is Mrs. Smith fitting in?" and was simply informed that she was acting cold toward the other teachers).

Anyway, it's probably a mixture of many things!

Re: Lisa #20
Interesting story and good advice to the LW. Your true life adventures just out of college would make a great background for a novel or screenplay - hint, hint (like you're not busy enough right now as a mom and with a baby on the way, right?). Your post does "raise the question" (not beg the question hehe), "Do you still live in that small town?" Inquiring minds want to know! You've probably mentioned it in your posts buy I admit I am a bit absent minded when it comes to these sorts of details sometimes :-)

Lisa#20- That is a lot of information worth considering. Her cold reception could have been as simple as the staff hearing about her great preparation and being jealous if their University was not as prestigious. Maybe she will never know why they are so put off, but Lisa's suggestions are very good, and might work. Sometimes, when people who are put off by you got the wrong impression, there is little you can do to overcome that, especially if they are mistaken and immature, and if the whole group is invested in their wrong impression. I used to work with a group that had half people that liked me very much, and got along well, worked cooperatively, and so on. The other half was influenced by a mean girl type and I even walked into the lunchroom when they all stopped speaking and looked guilty, so I know they had been discussing me. I ignored them, because I had allies in the other group, and my boss liked me. It isn't so easy to do if the boss does not like you. In that case, I would say, look for a job somewhere else. Just be nice to everyone, so that your reference will be good. Or, if you like the job, hold your head up and use Lisa's suggestions. In my own case, later when the mean girl had a personal tragedy, I rallied her friends to be kind to her, telling them to call her, and what to say. They were young, and had had no experience comforting people in losses of that kind. After that, although it hadn't been my intention, they were no longer mean to me. So, sometimes things can change if you keep being a kind person.

I agree that this first-time teacher probably does not have the excellent social skills her mom thinks she does--and I highly doubt it's the same case as with Lisa--i.e., that the other teachers are jealous or in awe of her credentials. I'm sure many of the teachers there also have a master's degree, working as a nanny for three years is "so what/who cares?', and this is her FIRST teaching job. I agree that, like many young graduates these days who unfortunately have been taught to think they're geniuses and got trophies just for showing up, she probably got off on the wrong foot by thinking she knew better than the more experienced teachers. We are funny in North America that, First Nations cultures aside, we believe that the older you are, the less you know. Even though the idea that a person who has been on this earth a shorter period of time would know more is illogical--as if people stop learning once they hit 30--we still embrace the idea.

Re: Casey

LOL!!!!!!

@EstherGreenwood -- No, I am not still there. I was there for about three years, and I wouldn't trade that experience for the world -- I learned so much about my craft, about the differences (and similarities) of small towns/big cities and about myself -- stuff that I would never have learned if I'd just gone back to my big-city hometown and worked at the big city newspaper because I'd have been relegated to writing obits instead of being empowered to actually create entire new sections, for example, and I wouldn't have had the experience of moving to a place I had never even heard of before and try to make it home. It's also where I met my husband (he didn't work at the paper, but I met him as a result of my working there). So lots of good stuff happened to me there. But you also couldn't pay me enough to go back there!

@Patty Bear & Jane -- I was really more reminiscing with that post than offering up advice because I do think my situation was different in a number of different ways. For example, I doubt that the principal called the rest of the teachers together to tell them how "fabulous" she was before they got there. My boss had a very specific agenda when he did that, and it wasn't designed to help me, and it certainly didn't. Since most schools have pretty specific education/certification requirements, it's unlikely that the LW's daughter has significantly more education than most of her co-workers -- but, of course, since philosophies and information taught at colleges changes over time, what she learned may well be significantly different from what her co-workers learned, depending on the age difference, etc. While there were a number of reporters and editors on staff at that newspaper who had college degrees, there were also some who did not, and there were members of the staff (not reporters or editors) who barely graduated high school and had basically never lived (or been) anywhere else in their entire lives. I was painted as this incredibly smart, worldly, upper-crust person who was certainly going to be looking down her nose at them and their town. I'm reasonably smart (if I do say so myself), and certainly I was somewhat more "well-traveled" than some of my co-workers (though not necessarily by much -- just the fact that I grew up 500 miles away from this town qualified me as "worldly"), and I am hardly royalty or in any sort of "who's who." I honestly don't think anyone would have been jealous of me or in awe of me (a laughable notion, at best), had not my boss set me up for that. I also don't think anyone would have thought I was a snob had not my boss set e up for that. He was a prince, wasn't he?

In the LW's case, it sounds more likely that she did at least some of this to herself -- avoiding the break room, for example and possibly making it clear that she was turned off by what she was hearing there. Honestly, I think one of the reasons the things I did worked for me was BECAUSE I didn't even know what I was up against, and the others there knew it, which meant that when I made some of those self-deprecating remarks about not being able to find the bathroom at City Hall, etc., they knew that I was being genuine. I just figured that the people at this small town newspaper were a bit suspicious of any outsider, and that I just needed to give it some time for them to get to know me, and as such I needed to put my best foot forward -- just keep being open and friendly. It was only in retrospect, after I knew what had been said in the meeting prior to my arrival, that I realized that some of the things that I was doing as part of my "being open and friendly" were perfectly crafted to combat what had been said about me. But again, I'm not claiming to have been so strategic or smart about it -- I didn't know I was combatting anything other than just typical "we don't like outsiders" stuff.

@Jane -- I think this happens to one degree or another in all professions, but in teaching there is a pretty huge burn-out rate, but because they have tenure, they rarely leave and certainly don't get fired. One of my college roommates is a Spanish teacher. When she first started teaching at this one high school, she was teaching Spanish 1, while her older, more experienced colleague was teaching Spanish 2 and Spanish 3. Well, my friend was all "shiny and new" and she soon was teaching her students some of the stuff that the her colleague was teaching in Spanish 2 (she didn't realize that -- she was loosely following the recommended syllabus that came with the Spanish 1 textbook, and she assumed she was expected to get through the entire Spanish 1 textbook -- turns out, the older teacher had been teaching just the first half of the Spanish 1 text book in Spanish 1, finishing it in Spanish 2). When her colleague realized what she was doing, he cornered her and asked her what she was thinking teaching that "advanced stuff" in Spanish 1. My friend said, "well, it's all still just Spanish 1, and the kids were ready for it." At which point her colleague proceeded to tell her that she didn't know what she was talking about, the students can't possibly be ready for that stuff, he had 20 years of experience and knew better than she did, and she was just another freshly-minted idealist out of college and she would soon learn her lesson. Except the lesson she learned, when the kids were all acing her course and were hungry for more, was that her colleague was a burned-out teacher who no longer believed in his students. Yes, he had far more experience than she did, but in this case, his experience had taught him to basically give up on his students, while her lack of experience led her to believe in her students. So, it can go both ways.

FWIW: I know that in my own profession, most journalists will tell you that real-life experience is way more valuable than a degree, and most of the journalists I know would tell any undergraduate student majoring in journalism that while a master's degree is valuable, they would be better off getting some real-life experience first and then going back for the master's degree later. Although I had "two degrees" when I took that first job, they were actually BOTH undergrad degrees -- I was a double major, so I earned "two degrees" but neither of them was post-graduate work.

@EstherGreenwood -- and thanks, by the way. Though I still think Zoe and her open marriage are far more interesting than I am! ;)

Bah. Is anyone else stuck at work, bored out of their mind? :(

Michelle, I'm glad you realized my post wasn't malicious! I reread and thought “I hope Michelle doesn't take that the wrong way” SO glad you didn't! :)

Re: Casey #34
I WAS ... until we realized apparently all our clients were gone for the holiday weekend, so we left too :)

I really don't know that the LW's daughter was acting superior by staying away, or otherwise signaling her disdain for gossip to the teacher, and I think it's pretty unfair to decide that this must be the the case when it's JUST as possible that she was only following what worked for her in previous social situations -- if you don't like what the mean girls are saying, quietly find someplace else to be and leave them alone. That's not a bad coping social mechanism; it helps one develop other interests and make other friends so that all self-worth isn't affected by a clique.

The problem, of course, is that this is NOT a social situation. It is a work situation. And this particular strategy can't work when you are in a professional situation and share workspace, and when your absence is conspicuous and a tolerable work environment often depends on your ability to get along with co-workers.

That's one of those things you tend to learn by experience -- often newbie workers are idealistic enough to believe that everyone in the workplace is a grownup and acts accordingly.

As Lisa said, there are steps she can try taking. But it's possible that the damage is done here, and that she'd be happier finding another position.

Re: Lisa
Thanks for the update. That's very cool that you met your husband there. You've got a point about Zoe's interesting life. When she publishes her memoir I'll have to rush out and buy a copy right away.

@hedgehog, I don't think we necessarily need to read the situation too badly on either side to understand that the LW's daughter still made some mis-steps. The older "mean girls" teachers may not actually be all that mean, but simply may be very comfortable with each other, having worked "in the trenches" together for a long time. LW's daughter may have been awkward, too quick to judge, and overly idealistic -- but by themselves, that doesn't add up to her being a terrible person. Perhaps a little more "socially tone-deaf" than she realized.

And the older, experienced teachers may not be anywhere near as vicious as the LW interprets them to be (remember she's hearing her daughter's stories about her "bad days at work", not witnessing them directly). But maybe they were a little too quick to take offense at the younger woman's awkwardness, perhaps forgetting what it was like when they were young. And when she stopped going into the teacher's lounge, that probably seemed like a slap in the face, or them taking it that she felt she was too good for them.

Simple misunderstanding and misinterpretation on both sides, and a young, inexperienced woman who knew how to socially navigate her old life finding that not all of her college experience adapts well to the workplace.

I feel the young teacher should keep a log of the bulling and go over the Principal's head since she won't do her job, perhaps she isn't capable of controlling her staff and is intimated by the older teacher. Go to the Superintendent, this
is totally unacceptable.

Re: Mike H
Mike, you always say what I am thinking in a much better way.
Lise, with regard to your post #23, it just seems to me that you resort to "bullying" when even the LW didn't mention that. We all see things through our own filters, of course, but I don't think the new teacher is being bullied.
For example, with regard to the birthday food, maybe the other teachers didn't know the date of the new teacher's birthday. If she had been shunning the teachers because they blow off steam about students and parents, and suddenly appears with her own birthday treats, I can understand the quandary of the other teachers. She likes us when it is her birthday?
I experienced this kind of treatment once in my life when I was given a part-time job in a different department after my son was born, and I had been working for the CFO. Yes, he gave me special treatment, because he wanted me to come back full-time when I was able. The people in that department resented me big-time and I don't blame them. It was evidenced in little things like, at that company, any occasion, good or bad, involved taking up a collection, sending cards, etc. I contributed to all those things for the people in my new department, even though I did not know them well. When my grandmother died, they sent nothing, and one of them actually told me that "I was too new" for them to give me a sympathy card.
Is that "bullying"? Hell, no. It was normal resentment against a person who had an advantage from prior association. I did not call my lawyer, or document anything. I was a little stung for a while, but I said nothing, did my job to the best ability, and got promoted over all of them eventually. On my own merits.
Sorry for the long post.

Re: Cecelia H

No bullying going on here. Maybe you would like to see everyone who has had some minor diffculties learning to grow up and fit into the world of work take their concerns all the way up to the Supreme Court. Yes, misunderstandings about birthday cakes deserve all kinds of attention from the superintendents of schools, whose main concern should be the education of the CHILDREN!

The teachers are expected to work out their own difficulties.

Re: Chris

I had a feeling I would agree with your response to LW1 even before I read it. I totally agree with you. As an introvert, I would like to believe that you can just show up for work, do your job, and go home, but you need to build relationships at work, no matter what kind of workplace. Having said that, I don't think you need to spend time outside the office unless you make real friends, but you do need to make yourself likeable and make your co-workers feel that you like them as well if you are going to succeed.

I think this young lady got off on a huge wrong foot.