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Walter E. Williams
15 May 2013
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What You Can't Say

Comment

Jon Hubbard, a Republican member of the Arkansas House of Representatives, has a book, titled "Letters to the Editor: Confessions of a Frustrated Conservative." Among its statements for which Hubbard has been criticized and disavowed by the Republican Party is, "The institution of slavery that the black race has long believed to be an abomination upon its people may actually have been a blessing in disguise. The blacks who could endure those conditions and circumstances would someday be rewarded with citizenship in the greatest nation ever established upon the face of the Earth."

Hubbard's observation reminded me of my 1972 job interview at the University of Massachusetts. During a reception, one of the Marxist professors asked me what I thought about the relationship between capitalism and slavery. My response was that slavery has existed everywhere in the world, under every political and economic system, and was by no means unique to capitalism or the United States. Perturbed by my response, he asked me what my feelings were about the enslavement of my ancestors. I answered that slavery is a despicable violation of human rights but that the enslavement of my ancestors is history, and one of the immutable facts of history is that nothing can be done to change it.

The matter could have been left there, but I volunteered that today's American blacks have benefited enormously from the horrible suffering of our ancestors. Why? I said the standard of living and personal liberty of black Americans are better than what blacks living anywhere in Africa have. I then asked the professor what it was that explained how tens of millions of blacks came to be born in the U.S. instead of Africa. He wouldn't answer, but an answer other than slavery would have been sheer idiocy. I attempted to assuage the professor's and his colleagues' shock by explaining to them that to morally condemn a practice such as slavery does not require one to also deny its effects.

My yet-to-be-learned lesson — and perhaps that of Rep.

Hubbard — is that there are certain topics or arguments that one should not bring up in the presence of children or those with little understanding. Both might see that explaining a phenomenon is the same as giving it moral sanction or justification. It's as if one's explanation that the independent influence of gravity on a falling object is to cause it to accelerate at 32 feet per second per second could be interpreted as giving moral sanction and justification to gravity.

Slavery is widely misunderstood, and as such has been a tool for hustlers and demagogues. Slavery has been part of the human condition throughout recorded history and everywhere on the globe. Romans enslaved other Europeans; Greeks enslaved other Greeks; Asians enslaved Asians; Africans enslaved Africans; and in the New World, Aztecs enslaved Aztecs and other native groups. Even the word slave is derived from the fact that Slavic people were among the early European slaves.

Though racism has been used to justify slavery, the origins of slavery had little to do with racism. In recent history, the major slave traders and slave owners have been Arabs, who enslaved Europeans, black Africans and Asians. A unique aspect of slavery in the Western world was the moral outrage against it, which began to emerge in the 18th century and led to massive efforts to eliminate it. It was Britain's military might and the sight of the Union Jack on the high seas that ultimately put an end to the slave trade.

Unfortunately, the facts about slavery are not the lessons taught in our schools and colleges. The gross misrepresentation and suggestion in textbooks and lectures is that slavery was a uniquely American practice done by racist white people to black people. Despite abundant historical evidence, youngsters are taught nothing about how the Founding Fathers quarreled, debated and agonized over the slave issue.

Walter E. Williams is a professor of economics at George Mason University. To find out more about Walter E. Williams and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.

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Comments

33 Comments | Post Comment
Sir;... It is too kind to call you an idiot... There are lots of books and plenty of evidence on the relationship of slavery to capitalism... There are many books on the industrial use of slaves in the south before and during the civil war... There is a great deal of evidence regarding the resistence of free labor to slave labor where people could obviously see their free labor on the one hand dishonored as free labor in the south was, and devalued as only competition with chattel slavery can devalue wage labor...
We have the same process at work in the world today... International capitalism seeks slaves and encourages slavery all over the world, and free labor must compete with it, and give up ground until wage labor is working for slave wages... In no sense can capitalism be considered in any way superior to slave holding societies... Such societies do not raise the level of knowledge or understanding... Ultimately the leaders in such societies hold down all knowledge to the level of their own, and in doing so, invite attack, revolution, destruction and disease...
What do our schools teach??? You are educated.... Where are the new ideas in you??? What do the most educated know -to teach... Where is anyone learning to live with enough, to not exploit environment and humanity to the utmost possible limit??? We have gone as far as possible with our outworn and frayed ideas...
Now you are going to celebrate slavery as if slavery ever needed an ad man... Why not??? It is all that most people will ever know...Make people admire slavery as preferable to their own miserable example of freedom...

For those like Jon Hubbard who so conveniently forget all those sold down the river who were depreciated as machinery is today, having a life expectency of less than ten years- the dreadful meaning of Old Suzanna is forever lost... There is that poor, nameless, slave sonnovabich singing about malaria, the heat of the sun and death in such opposite language that it can be sung by children today happily unaware of the horrors of being worked to death where heat stroke and snake bite were equal possibilities -creating a landmark of misery for you to ignore...That song was an invitation to tears... Those people were going to the gulf states to die, and they knew it because no one ever returned, and their unmorned graves are a curse laid upon the souls of white Americans that will never be expiated....
This is what the rich are working up to for us, to work all who are able up until the moment they die... This is why people learn history, to know when some person who calls himself a conservative can be revealed a reactionary, -malignant and ignorant of reality..
The South and much of the North was built on slavery... Great fortunes were built on slavery by people who never smelled a slave but for the ink on dollars, who were pius and God fearing in all respects save in the way they allowed interest to draw the lash and help it find its mark...
It is for the same people and the same interest that today we slave... The facts come down to this: that no solution is a solution that does not address and improve the moral understanding of mankind... Ignorance, your ignorance of your own history, and of the particular cruelty of the slave trade and of American Slavery deny the possibility of moral understanding and improvment... To know what is right, one must know... Slavery is perferable to cannibalism.... Wage slavery is preferable to chattel slavery; but nothing is preferable to freedom...The immorality we allow thinking we will not suffer it keeps all of humanity in bondage...
Thanks.... Sweeney
Comment: #1
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:33 AM
Sir;... The only immutable fact of history is that if you do not learn it, it never changes you... History is always changing as our perspective of it changes... What happened cannot be changed, but what happened is only a certain being, and history is a certain meaning of that being... It is incredibly hard for people like yourself without morals to find the moral of the story...
Slavery was just too bad; but what do you expect me to do about it???... We are still dealing with it, number one and its effects... And number two, the conditions under which slavery flourished still exist, moral and economic; and people reduced by degrees to thinking with their stomach are not in any sense immune to it...
We never changed our society... We never dispossessed the masters, or punished them, and we ended the war with even greater protections for property -though we had fought over property rights... We caused a lot of suffering in the suffering south which the blacks were made to suffer in return; but we left things pretty much as they were: A feudal and backward society governed by prejudice and ignorance in eaqual measure... Where would the republican party be today without the slave states???
Thanks...Sweeney
Comment: #2
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:46 AM
Mr. Sweeney you amaze me. your two posts prove beyond doubt the 4th paragraph of Mr. Sowell's commentary, ouoted here; "My yet-to-be-learned lesson ... is that there are certain topics or arguments that one should not bring up in the presence of children or those with little understanding. Both might see that explaining a phenomenon is the same as giving it moral sanction or justification. It's as if one's explanation that the independent influence of gravity on a falling object is to cause it to accelerate at 32 feet per second per second could be interpreted as giving moral sanction and justification to gravity."

keep up the good work Mr. Sweeney
Comment: #3
Posted by: big Doug
Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:07 AM
Mr. Sweeney. Once again you manage to insult a man for a perfectly logical approach to this issue. I guess it was inevitable since I know you attribute every evil experienced in this world to capitalism no matter were it falls in history. However to call a learned and thoughtful man an idiot because his opinions do not match your expectations is beneath even your common pettiness.
Comment: #4
Posted by: david
Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:45 AM
Re: big Doug;... People like yourself will never understand the attitude of Black people in the least, or of anyone who has known injustice.... It is pointless for such people as you to learn history, and is perhaps difficult for you to grasp in any significant detail because you are too immoral to take a moral lesson from it, just as is Mr. Williams...
It is impossible to refer to the ancestors of those who had the life so drained from them that they never reproduced themselves... What of all those driven from the farms of England who never had the means to reproduce themselves, who were replaced when they fell by the way by others fresh from the farm and without means...
We are becoming a servant class too, or slaves; and all you have to do is look at our birth rate... We do not have the means to reproduce ourselves here or in Europe, and if given any sort of choice, people do not reproduce their poverty in their children... We are showing our want of morality by the resistence we do not offer to the yoke of slavery we are surely and not so slowly being fitted for...
If you only understand the cultural resistence of black people to accepting slave wages even when it might lead to something better, you might gain the courage to resist slave wages for yourself and for others... It is easy to look at some Nation like the Franks whose name literally means the free so that to speak frankly means to speak freely, and conclude that these people never knew slavery; but they served their time for Rome... Rather; they were not so long slaves that they forgot their former freedom...
We are forgetting our freedom, and it shows in our willingness to forgo the outrage on behalf of others, like our black people, at the loss of their freedom and the abuse of their humanity for the same cause we suffer today: PROFIT...
Even the greatest slave holders in the south never got rich on it... People in distant New York and London did, loaning money, trading, transporting and buying the products of slavery... They were as good as today at leaving the hard and dirty work for others and squeezing all available profit out of it... Masters and slaves alike were working for banks and middlemen... New York City for a time considered the possiblity of leaving with the south... It was not simply as some said, that bad morals equalled bad roads... The bad morals of the south allowed it to be drained of the capital necessary to defend itself with every bale of cotton sold... The mass of whites found no honor in labor, and if they did, they went north or west... A fraction of whites, the owners of land and slaves found themselves pressed to the margins of profitability by banks, and all the rest were some sort of bottom feeder in military or religion...
The whole south was a swamp of indignity, lazyness, and injustice... Why, when they had so much going their way did they decide on war??? War is the only way people have to export injustice or make it more certain at home...Did the war make an end to injustice for anyone in the south, or only make it more certain???
Thanks...Sweeney
Comment: #5
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:54 AM
"It was Britain's military might and the sight of the Union Jack on the high seas that ultimately put an end to the slave trade."

And how ironic that many—perhaps most—of the men crewing those Royal Navy ships had been "pressed" into service—i.e. they were essentially slaves. The "pressment" of American sailors into British ships on the high seas was one of the causes of the War of 1812. 

"Slavery has been part of the human condition throughout recorded history and everywhere on the globe."

Indeed it has, and is, though these days it's generally called by other names, to protect the tender ears of the innocent, e.g. the first commenter above. And what were you doing last April 15th?
Comment: #6
Posted by: Philalethes
Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:55 AM
Re: david;... Sir... No logic is better than ones facts or predicates (Axiums)... As the used to say of computers: GIGO= Garbage In, Garbage Out... Mr. Williams arguments are all gigo, no better in their conclusions than the false predicates he begins with... It is impossible as I said to talk about the ancestors of those who were never born because those might have been ancestors were worked to death... They may have been relatives, fellow slaves, poor unfortunate strangers; but they were ancestors to no one...
How many have died leaving no issue for us to enjoy this life, and all we can do is honor them by living well and free, and this we refuse to do, and instead trade what we got cheap for the stuff of life and wonder why so many of us feel cheated in the end... I cannot give you or anyone the knowledge and the honor to live free and demand your freedom so you have something of value to leave your children, if you can afford any...Morality, and the will to know what is going on, and to champion those suffering injustice, and to express outrage for those who have been stiffled is a great price to bear to buy your freedom; but don't think you will long enjoy any sort of freedom while you see others deprived of theirs on every side in silence...
Comment: #7
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:08 AM
Re: Philalethes;... Correct me if you can; but England ended the slave trade before we did, and in addition, no slave could touch England without becoming a free man...
You might consider that while we fought the war of 1812 over the issue of impressment, that impressment continued as needed, and that our yankees sold us out, and our generals fought very badly, and that the war presented to school children as a win was anything but, and only the war weariness of England gave us any protection what so ever... If they had turned their European forces on us, we would have been done for...We wanted trade with Napoleon, and they wanted to starve out French democracy, such as it was: tyranny... In fact; we have never been too delicate in the ways we have made our money... Goes for me too... I am not that wealthy, but if I had ever had any self respect in my youth, I would have nothing at all now...
Comment: #8
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:18 AM
Another great article, Mr. Willians.

Mr. Sweeney .... You make me shake my head in wonderment and sigh.
Comment: #9
Posted by: D.M. Mitchell
Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:24 AM
Mr Sweeney: Indeed, America's record in regard to the slave trade is truly execrable—and most of all in how slavery was ended, by a trumped-up, unnecessary war whose actual result was to enslave us all, black, brown, and white, to the newly transformed imperial state of Lincoln and his successors. Not to mention slaughtering over 600,000 people and laying waste to a third or more of the country. And setting the stage for the poisonous race relations of the last century and a half. While in the rest of the world, the African slave trade (though not other forms of slavery) was ended peacefully, with little difficulty.

And yes, the War of 1812 was a hoax and a set-up. (The Northeastern states, friendly to Britain, nearly seceded over it. Funny how secession became unthinkable only a few years later.) In fact, the United States has not fought a legitimate, defensive war since 1783. Despite what school children are taught in the government-run schools—especially about the so-called "Civil" War: the first lie is the name itself.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Philalethes
Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:42 AM
Re: D.M. Mitchell;... I wondered what that rattle was...
Thanks...Sweeney
Comment: #11
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:43 AM
Re: Philalethes... Sir;.. I love big words, and excrable is a good one; but I cannot agree that the war was trumped up or unnecessary... The south new full well that their lives were impossible without slavery, and so the allowance for slavery in the constitution as contradition was the price of union, of having a united states of America...
It is hard to say that disunion was the price of union, but we put union first while we gathered our strength to resist foreign enemies though it meant terrible slaughter for us in the civil war... It was never entirely avoidable, and the belicose nature of the south made it welcome there... If the conflict had come sooner it would have been with less slaughter, and if later would have been attended by more slaughter...
We were a house divided and are yet, but it is impossible to speak of peace when one side wants peace, and the other side wants war... Consider the hush that fell over Germany with the invasion of Poland... Hitler wanted war, and every concession to him drew the support of his population and made war all that much more likely, because hitler wanted war, even while most Germans did not...
There were a lot of concessions to the south ending with Dred Scott, that was the very sort of political decision the Tanney court had avoided earlier in its period, and it thought that the respect of the people for the Supreme Court would carry the day... With the growing antipathy of the people toward slavery as immorality, all the court did was make itself meaningless... A battle field is very like a courtroom without all the nice formality, after all...
I really think Thadius Stevens was correct, and that the 70,000 people who owned the greatest share of the south and were most responsible for the war should have been dispossessed... It would have broken their politcal influence, ended a great deal of the poverty in the south, put a lot of former slaves in possession of their own means, and went a great distance in financing the war and reconstruction... That 70k was but a fraction of the population, but they were viral, and should have been turned out... Leaving the situation pretty much as it was antibellum was a mistake for which we have long paid, especially the blacks...
One of the best ways to look at the war was as counter revolution, but the real reaction was in the constitution itself which denied so much of the Declaration of Independence, and even made impossible the achievement of the goods for which it was written as listed in the preamble...You simply cannot put so much outside of the control of government in the form of property privilages and religious privilages, and expect the people are going to have enough control in their lives with the power left to them...
Even Lincoln saw that his power over slavery was minimal, and Dred Scott too was based upon sound legal logic... If a man is your chattel, then like any other chattel he can be moved where ever you move...Property rights are set apart from human rights not simply for their better understanding, but to grasp the fact that they are often opposed to human rights...
That opposition of rights for which the war was fought was in the end made more definite by amendment so that we are more a house divided than ever... It does not matter that property owners of any significance are, as in the old south, a minority... The whole concept has wide spred support even among those with little or no property, and they will fight to protect what they will never own, if they can afford to... Just as in the old south, the unwillingness of the rich to tax themselves will ultimately doom any defense of their wealth..
Thanks... Sweeney
Comment: #12
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:27 AM
Mr. Williams and Mr. Sweeney, once again you are both in top form. Carry on.
Comment: #13
Posted by: mark wells
Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:59 AM
Dr. Williams,

It so refreshing to read adult conversation. Thank you.

Comment: #14
Posted by: cathy jones
Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:43 AM
Dr. Williams

It is so refreshing to read adult conversation. Thank you.
Comment: #15
Posted by: cathy jones
Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:45 AM
Why is anyone reading, let alone responding to, Mr. Sweeney's rants? I say boycott him.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Phillip Schearer
Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:41 AM
Re: Phillip Schearer;... Boycott... What a great word... That was a man's name, and how would you like to live to be such a complete butthole that your name entered the English language??? Just the thought that such an action could be used against me hurts me to my soul, if I have one... I only wish I could express to you how little original my thoughts are, and that they only result from too much reading suffered in preference to lonliness... I should have stuck with pointless fiction and never learned anything... Vanity; all vanity to think I could add some facts to your otherwise empty lives... I... I am a failure... I shall now drown myself in tears of melancholy... Fare well cruel world... Has any one seen my water wings... I want to enjoy this...So much...
Thanks...Sweeney
Comment: #17
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:14 AM
Sweeney = Troll

Troll = an entity which involves itself in discussions purely for the purpose of disturbing other users and making itself feel important.

How to handle trolls = Because the troll feeds on having its name mentioned or by generating debate or ill feeling, many internet users either ignore the troll completely or respond with the phrase, “Don't Feed the Troll".

I know I just fed him, but hopefully everyone else learns something from this and leaves him isolated in the future.

Comment: #18
Posted by:
Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:35 AM
Mr Sweeney; you outdid yourself here. "People like yourself will never understand the attitude of Black people in the least, or of anyone who has known injustice.... It is pointless for such people as you to learn history, and is perhaps difficult for you to grasp in any significant detail because you are too immoral to take a moral lesson from it, just as is Mr. Williams"
i lived and worked for years as a minority white in the black community in eastern North Carolina. i found the vast majority of black Americans i lived among to be delightful neighbors, friends and co-workers, exactly like the white people i grew up with.
One may have saved my life by alerting firemen to the fact i was sleeping in a burning building,
sadly, i found a small minority who were petty, vicious and determined to repay me, not for things i or any other white person had done to them but for things people with my skin color had done to people with their skin color.
Mr. Sweeney, you must slow down. you might give yourself a heart attack with all this inner rage , at the very least you might burn up your keyboard. (wink)
Mr. Hamilton, in post 18. you have a point, but it is possible even one so blind as Mr. Sweeney might some day see the light, as Saul did on the road to Damascus.
Mr. Williams, as Tim in Project Runway says; "Carry on". i look forward to your columns each week.
Comment: #19
Posted by: big Doug
Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:25 PM
Re: Hamilton;... Sir.. That is so far from correct, and you must know it...I offer an alternative point of view, and all you people who prefer to silence that opinion rather than give it any attention label me, and abuse me...
Mr. Williams is a false economist who leaves too much out of his equasions to possibly be correct... I have read a few books on economy and realize that no matter how useful smoke and mirrors, slight of hand, chinese arithmatic, and promises can be short term; that long term they are a disaster for a society... Inflation and deficit spending, for example, can be useful to weather storms of war, but again, only short term, and the south in the civil war showed what happens when the rich refuse the taxes essential to their defense...
There has been no great emergancy to justify running the sorts of deficits we have... The rich have laid as much tax on the poor as the poor can bear... And the rich have run down the wages of the poor so they can seldom afford taxation at all...Then they have exported all our available capital in money and machinery, so that people must import and buy on credit what they once produced and bought out of pocket...In addition, our capital abroad in the form of American Interests demands the protection of our military at great expense that the rich lay on the poor while keeping the profits and pleading penury to the tax man...
NONE of the arithmatic of free enerprise adds up... The gain of the rich is a loss to the poor... And here comes this immoral moralist and apologizes once more for slavery... Slavery is what we are working our selves into if we cannot find democracy... Let Mr. Williams forgive the rich for crimes past... In many respects it is the same people at work today bleeding this population and putting us in the poor house by breaking our government with loans no one should have accepted...
If the tax necessary to support the government could not be paid, it was time to sell out the commonwealth to those who would support the government... The nonsense of borrowing from the very people who plead poverty at tax time as an excuse to rob us of our rights to the commonwealth must end... Just tell me who the government exists for??? It does not do my will... Does it do your will??? Did you want those pointless wars??? Then you pay for them...Those who wanted them profited off them, and that is why they wanted them... Take the profit out of war and people will endure peace... How hard is that???
Thanks....Sweeney
Comment: #20
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:25 PM
Re: big Doug;... Even if Saul saw the light, so to speak, he was little changed as a person by the event... He was still a zealot...
A change of paradigm is a much more profound occurance, and to see things in an entirely new light is a monumental event... I see thing differently, and if I seem blind to you because I do not see things as you do, then imagine how you seem to me...What I ask of people is a compete change of consciousness, and I realize it is a lot... Only consider your Declaration of Independence, and Jefferson, talking of forms... Forms are like ideas, and ideas are what we build social forms like law and government out of... Or consider your preamble to your constitution, for there the moral forms around which your social form of government is made are listed... Consider the attention directed by lincoln on our true founding document, the Declaration of Independence, which if we had held to it would have put our civil war beyond the pale... Out of injustice grows injustice... Out of immorality grows immorality... As the Muslims say: If you would change the world, first change yourself... Do it...
Thanks...Sweeney
Comment: #21
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:37 PM
Sweeney is certainly an insulting troll, but he's also earnest, lonely, and tortured as he craves to correct and debate. Like others here, I have neither the time nor inclination to invest in his dense and rambling text, but I will say that his errors are not so much in his facts as in his selection, weightings, generalizations, and practical applications of them. The shear volume of his comments bespeaks this disproportion and obsessiveness. But I doubt that his errors can be readily proven to him.

I'm not quite arguing to ignore him, but it's certainly good to understand what you are getting into if you choose to engage him, which will likely dissuade most from trying.
Comment: #22
Posted by: Kevin
Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:09 PM
To Mr. Sweeney, my advice for avoiding alienation is to be more pithy in your comments. Be kind and keep it short with one or two coherent points. Edit and condense so it's not so stream of consciousness. When you feel the need for ellipses, reconsider. :)
Comment: #23
Posted by: Kevin
Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:30 PM
Re: Kevin;...Indeed... You understand me better than me understands me... In one sense at least you are wrong: There are only two kinds of people in this world, and they are not rubes and carnies, though that is plausible, but yooppers and trolls, and while I may live in the land of trolls, I shall never be a troll...
And you are correct about my loneliness, and my tortured condition... I am uncomfortable hanging at the bar, and other than my family, my only serious social life is in the Y... With cold weather, I cannot run outside and spend more time there...And Kevin, I know Mr. Williams as a fraud... There is no nice way to call a man an idiot, and most of the time I just avoid people like that... But since I can see in what respect he is immoral, and practically unlearned, I feel it is my obligation to point that out...
I am not certain that I am catching every instance of his error... I am formally uneducated myself... It is enough to see the chinks in his wall to point out the cause of his draft... It does not rise to the level of an obsession... Compared to a human being; Mr. Williams is a pip squeek... Why is that my problem except left in adoration with no one to point out how false and foolish his reasoning is, people will just accept... I do not accept... I do wonder why he does not work for the irs since such people seek Government authority to suppliment their lack of personal authority... Instead he stands with the rich against the poor... How much courage does that take??? He makes arguments the uniformed applaud and accept on their face much as he does himself... How much courage or genius does that require???...
I know I am holding to unpopular opinions, even if they are pro democracy...Even in democracies it is often easy to find people who abuse and malign the people, the genius of the people, and discount the ability of people given the facts to govern themselves... These sort like Mr. Williams who base so much of argument on obviously false predicates should be attacked...There is no apology for slavery beyond the obvious one of profit to the death on other human beings so long as it can be justified by one of the parties... I am not buying it, and I could just say it is beyond stupid and I am not buying it; but I will tell you why and I do think why is essential...
You can only accept such predicates out of ignorance... Should I thank the English for driving my people out of Ireland because America is better??? In fact I do; but their cruelty in doing so rates no apology... The English were unbelievably cruel to their own during their industrial revolution... Is that any excuse for stalin's unbelievable and stupid cruelty during the Russian Industrial revolution???
Knowledge is judgement said Kant... Knowledge is Virtue said Socrates... Should I agree that knowledge is power it is only because it allows for judgement of right and wrong, so that the moral life is possible... Morality is so far beyond Mr. Williams... His judgements based upon little knowledge and much presumption lends itself only to the defense of injustice... I don't buy it... But whether your read it or not, I owe you an explanation which is not at all simple... Simple is not always wrong, but wrong is almost always simple... Why is that???
Comment: #24
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:01 PM
Re: Kevin... Why do people bother insulting me if they can prove I am wrong??? I have books by the foot on early American history, our revolution and the civil war... I have books on Lincoln by the foot as well... But I have no magical troll power to make anyone read what I write... What powers do people lack to simply disregard anything that conflicts with or contradicts their accepted belief???... If I am obsessed with anything it is with challenging my own prejudices with more information... I just bought another and old book on reconstruction the other day, and one I think may be revisionist... I have another old book where in some college student castigates the writer in no uncertain terms for being revisionist... So what??? Shall I live in a coocoon with my beliefs unchallenged... My education has been books, and no professor has stood before me and said: Your ideas must be wrong... Perhaps they are, and that is my presumption; but until I know otherwise I can only repeat what I have learned in less elegant fashion...
Comment: #25
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:11 PM
GIVE EM HELL SWEENEY. CWC
Comment: #26
Posted by: Charles Coats
Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:35 AM
Re: Charles Coats;... Not if it is worth anything... Something for nothing is not my style... Come to think of it; I don't have any style...I have been known to toss nickles around like man hole covers, but that is more of a way of life, and not a style...
I have plenty of heck in stock... I can afford to give them some of that...
Thanks...Sweeney
Comment: #27
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:09 AM
A question for Sweeney. Is this the only site that you comment on? cwc
Comment: #28
Posted by: Charles Coats
Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:15 AM
Re: Charles Coats;... My regular is A2K, and there I am fido... But I have read a lot of history, and I follow politics, regularly... So right now, mostly here... I have always followed Mr. Shields, and though he is too nice and not altogether focused, I mostly agree with him... People in the business of news and politics have no idea of the desparation out in the trenches... If People elect Mr Romoney, I think it will be an example of voting hope over reality, and stomach over mind...
People have been hurting for many years... The bankers have sat back on a stack of government money for years now when they might have done much to revive a dying economy... I think there could be a rebound, but not sufficient to fix our issue by any means, and I think that Mr. Romoney could benefit from a lot of the work Mr. Obama did for him... It is just so obvious that the people left and right are becoming more entrenched, and radical, and all have been hard pressed and hurting even before the great crash....I do not think Mr. Romoney will help, and hope he pushes the economy off a cliff... I do think the bankers will be more inclined to work with him, but for the banks to make profits, the people have to be plundered and that has done happened...The people of this country are not a fountain of wealth, and we have been relieved of wealth for so long we are at the point of trading rights for food...Mr. Obama promises a softer landing but he does not promise the same end will not be reached... Their difference is of style, and not of substance... The both believe... One is more intelligent, and the other more opportunistic... I bet the best liar wins...
Thanks... Sweeney
Comment: #29
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:23 AM
I am no where near as book educated as your are. I know what I think and I do believe I know right from wrong.
It is obivious that the people who are in power do not know right from wrong. It is not hard to see that this is true.
Then again maybe they do know right from wrong. There motivation is profit? Still that makes them wrong.
What really gives me the tickle is when they say this business of inter-country negotiation can only be left to them. These are delicate matters that only the elete can handle. Are they telling me that I do not know how to barter? If I have something I want to trade with someone else for some thing they have I do not need a go between to speak for me. I simply say what I want in trade for what I have.
I have used the trade example as just that. To me the example applies in all matters. Things are really quie simple.
The ruling class have taken away simplicity and replaced it with confuson to their advantage.
As far as the defense of the country goes, we do not attack anyone unless they attack us. It seems that everyone has forgot about m.a.d. Mutually assurd destruction. This b.s. about the approaching attack of enemies is just that b.s.
The terrorist war is a big joke. Gotta stop. cwc
Comment: #30
Posted by: Charles Coats
Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:32 AM
Went to a2k fido. Is this a joke? cwc
Comment: #31
Posted by: Charles Coats
Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:49 AM
Re: Charles Coats... If it did not fold up its tents and vanish into the desert mists upon my departure, there is such a site, covering a wide variety of topics from philosophy, science, art, athletics, politics and even cross words... Some of the best and smartest there won't piss on me if I'm on fire; but so what... Better to be a small fish in a big ocean than hung on a wall... Able to Know... It should be out there... Keep looking... Some of the best love poetry I have ever written is there some where, but I have the attention span of an inch worm when it comes to fiction...If it does not write itself, it does not get written... After Mr. Romeny gets elected you should find me back there... It is the rock I usually hide under...
Thanks...Sweeney
Comment: #32
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:31 AM
Very good article and logical thoughts.

"My yet-to-be-learned lesson — and perhaps that of Rep Hubbard — is that there are certain topics or arguments that one should not bring up in the presence of children or those with little understanding."

The biggest reason it is a waste of time to respond to Sweeney.

Comment: #33
Posted by: SusansMirror
Fri Nov 9, 2012 7:12 AM
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