Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1 - suggest you seek some professional help for your situation because there is a lot going on there. You skim over the fact that while you & your husband weren't at home, 2 of your sons did "some less than legal activity". It's probably no wonder your husband no longer wants your sons around or in his home, particularly while he's not there to keep an eye on what they are doing. A social worker might be able to help you sort this out, as well as help your adult sons - assuming they're even interested - find employment & housing. Why don't your other kids give the homeless one a place to stay or are they too familiar with him to want him around, too?

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LW3 refers to the first letter on 23 March 2013.

I agree with Kai Archie. The first letter is one of those instances where the letter writer lightly glosses over something really BIG that really has just about everything to do with the letter. What 'less than legal' activity are we talking about? Were your sons selling drugs out of your house? Stealing your things and selling them? Having wild parties that ended up involving the cops? Having sex with underage girls? Or are we talking about something like your 18 year old son having a beer? Something tells me it isn't the last one.

Which means your husband has reason to fear for his property and possibly even his safety if these men.. yes, men, not boys... are in his house unsupervised. As cold as it sounds, I can understand his being upset when he finds that you let one of these little thugs into his house without telling him. He may also see you as part of the problem.

I understand that you don't want to give up on your boys. While I agree with his not wanting these men in his house if they' disrespect him, I think he is being unreasonable if he's demanding you cut off all contact - i.e, the rides and stuff. If he's always disliked them, I have to wonder why you married him? It sounds like you and he need to have a serious and open discussion about this with limits set on both sides. If you can't do that yourselves, then find a counselor to help you.

LW1: The Annies ask a good question about the ages of these sons. It feels like it would be a very different situation if your sons are in their 30s or 40, instead of late teens or early 20s. If they are younger adults, they may still benefit greatly from the care and guidance of both of their parents. If they are older adults, though, and this has been a pattern for many years, then your husband's version of "tough love" may actually be appropriate. Whether or not your husband has always rejected them, and whether or not that actually is a root cause of their misbehavior, will add another twist to figuring this all out. And I agree with the others, what level of illegal activity is involved is a factor as well.

Marriage counseling (and I know it seems cliche) is clearly warranted, because there is a big rift brewing between you and your husband. You should be on the same page when it comes to *all* of your children, not just his. You both really need a skilled and neutral third party to help you navigate these issues; both in your marriage and how you can best support your children.

LW2: It's actually quite simple -- you just call him and tell him. The fact that you seem so nervous about this, and that you say you aren't often invited to family events, it seems there is a history *behind* your question that could affect this response, but we don't know what that is. Perhaps you are isolated because of some thing or things that you did to others; or perhaps you are isolated because you made some perfectly reasonable choices the rest of your family didn't care for. Still, though, it seems the answer is to communicate to your brother, be honest and regretful, and hope for the best.

"Do they have jobs?" Are the Annies living in the real world? Yes, Annie, the son is homeless and has to look for a place to stay every night, but each morning he gets up and, without clean clothes, a shower or a place to brush his teeth, goes to work. And then he takes that money from his job and instead of putting it into a roof over his head, he...well...whatever.

Sorry, but nobody stays homeless unless that's the lifestyle they've chosen. Your son is homeless because he wants to be. There is something he wants more than a home, whether it is drugs, an illegal lifestyle, or just to be a bum, and nothing you can do will change that, unless he wants to. He doesn't want to. And you are an enabling sap who will allow your criminal sons to suck everything from you through a misguided attempt that they will turn their lives around--even though they're now adults and still haven't even begun. Your chance to raise them right is over. It's up to them now. Your sons don't respect your husband, and they don't respect you either. Do your husband a favor and divorce him, so your sons won't take him down with them, when they drag you down.

LW1 - I agree that the age of the adult boys makes a big difference in how the situation is handled. If they are still very young adults, then it's possible for the parents to have some influence on them and be able to help them, but if they're in their 30's or 40's, then they've already made their life choices and distancing themselves from the "boys" is probably a better idea. I'm also wondering about the fact that the LW seemed to mention the illegal activities in passing and didn't elaborate on what they were. Based on that alone, regardless of any other problems, I don't blame the husband for not wanting them there, especially when the parents aren't around. However, issuing ultimatums rarely works well, especially when one parent's children are involved. I'm not in favor of counseling for every circumstance as the Annies seem to be, but I think it's definitely warranted in this case.
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LW2 - The LW adds (again more or less in passing) that she is rarely included in the family's other gatherings and activities, so there could be a reason why she's reluctant to tell her brother that they won't be at his wedding. Has she made excuses before, possibly not as impossible to change as her anniversary plans? We don't know what the issues are since she didn't mention them, but the only thing to do in this situation is spell out the problem to her brother as she has here, and tell him how sorry she is that she and her husband won't be able to be there. Send a nice gift with her best wishes for their happiness and hope they understand.

LW1 - I think your husband is wrong in telling you that he wants you to cut your sons out of your life. He doesn't have the right to tell you who you can and can't speak to. However, I don't blame him for not wanting them in his home. You glossed over the "less than legal activity" that they did in your house while you two were on vacation. Sounds to me like they broke into your home and used it for shady business. If someone did that in my home, I wouldn't allow them back, either.

You can still help your son without having him live with you. Of course I have to wonder if your son is very young and just needs some direction or if he's in his 30's or more and a screwball. That makes a big difference. I agree that you and your husband should go to counseling to try to work out your differences. And in the meantime, see if you can get your son into a homeless shelter and contact the website the Annies gave you.

LW2 - What strikes me as odd is that you're afraid if you don't go to this event that you'll never be invited to another one again. Is that how your family reacts to declined invitations? "She didn't go to (name)'s event so she's not getting invited to anymore events!" If so, that's extreme! And quite controlling. Simply call up your brother and tell him that you had everthing booked and paid for before his date announcement. If the family refuses to invite you to any more things after that, well, then that's their problem.

LW1--I'm sorry but I have to agree with your husband. It's one thing when you help your adult sons with groceries, the occasional unexpected car repair or with laundry. It's quite another thing when one or more of them is homeless or have a history of embarking on illegal activities while staying in your home. Look hon, while you're always going to love your boys, it's time that you accepted the fact that they're adults and maybe they've made some bad choices. Choices have consequences that you can't swoop in and magically fix. All that being said, your husband is being rigid and obtuse. If one of your boys shows up and needs a shower or wants to wash a load of clothes, your husband should allow that without calling the police. If it makes you feel better to buy one of them a meal or a fresh set of clothes do it, even if your husband protests. It's called compromise; your husband apparently needs a refresher on what that means.

LW2--"How do I break the news to my brother?" I'm sorry about your mental retardation. Sweetie you seem to be operating under the misconception that life is perfect or it's always fair. You simply say to your brother: "My husband and I have already booked (and paid for) a nonrefundable weekend getaway and made arrangements with his parents to watch our kids." We did this three months before you sent out save-the-date cards. Isn't it weird when you answer your own question?

LW3--I'll get right on that. Honey if I had every single disease that apparently causes depression then I'd be dead. So would you.

Jane,
To say that 100% of homeless people are there because they WANT to be homeless is an extremely ignorant and hardhearted statement. While I agree that drug aditcts are on the streets because they made poor decisions and care more about getting a fix than anything else, that doesn't describe ALL people who may be homeless. Some people are trying hard and just fell into hard times. Some people need psychological help, but just can't get it. Don't be so high and mighty and have some pity.

@Jane
It is extremely unfair to lump everyone into one category and one set of circumstances. We have a client whom we are attempting to help on a pro bono basis who is homeless through no fault of her own. I won't go into all the details of her personal history, but she was left in an impossible situation due to the suicide of her long-time companion who was her sole source of support for many years. She is slightly mentally disabled and has not worked in many years, and is not eligible for many of the programs and assistance available to widows and women with children to support. Many of the shelters in our area are dangerous, and the good ones are all full. She has been able to find only part-time employment which doesn't allow her to pay the high rent charged in this area. She is not on drugs and has no other substance abuse issues. Fortunately, so far she has been able to find short-term housing working for people who allow her to live in to help them through illness or other issues, but each time the employment ends, she must start looking again. Her only bad "choice" was to allow herself to become so dependent upon her partner, but she certainly didn't choose to become homeless, and she is doing everything she can to better her situation.

LW1 -
"At what point am I supposed to turn my back on them?" When they start engaging in "less than legal" activities in your home home the minute your back is turned seems like a good time.

Ask yourself: would whatever it is they did be a good enough reason to "give up on them" regardless of your husband's presence, and is he right to be horrified? Answer this honestly now. The answer is very likely "yes", except that you can't resolve yourself to it because you're weak. In that case, indeed you ARE "helping too much". There comes a point where NOT turning your back on them "every time they need help" becomes enabling and, frankly, I believe that's exactly where you are.

Yes, it will break your heart to have one your sons homeless (hey - how come his wonderful brotherly accomplice won't take him in?), but anything "less than legal" they perpetrate in your home will make YOU liable also, both financially and legally, especially considering you know they do things like that. Try as you may to make him sound horrible, if your sons engaged in illegal activities in your home, your husband is perfectly justified in not wanting them to even shower there, and you being too soft, Madam, is putting you, your husband AND your joint property in danger. Unless you don't mind ending up in jail or in the street because of them? Well, your husband begs to differ, and I can't blame him.

Who you "love most" is irrelevant, as love cannot be put on a scale and weighed. What your husband really means is that you're going against him, and therefore putting them ahead of him. He's right about that. You say you're "grateful that you both took on this challenge"... No, you're not. You're discounting the fact that he would NOT have taken on this challenge if he didn't care, and are latching on a "never really cared" accusation, all the while trying to depict him in a bad light, because you want him to be wrong about something. You're also totally disregarding the fact that he's trying to protect both of you and your home against the fallout of illegal activities. In other words, yes, you ARE siding with them and choosing them over him, and very foolishly too.

There does come a point where you do have to turn your back on your offspring - it's called tough love, and it's tough on all parties involved. What you're doing does NOT help your sons in the long run, and it's threatening your marriage. Continue wringing your hands and behaving like you presently are, and you will not only lose your sons to whatever it is thery're indulging in, but you will also lose your husband. He'll get fed up at one point and turn HIS back on all of you.

I disagree with the Annies - I don't see an ultimatum here, in the sense that he hasn't demanded that you choose between him and them yet. But it will come, and I can't say I blame him. God, but you sound like a boo-hooing sap. You need therapy badly. Find your backbone before you end up with nothing but your precious sons.

P.S.: What does your third son say about this? How come HE's not taking in his poor, homeless brother? Probably for the same good reason your husband doesn't want to see him in your home!

P.P.S.: You say "People mature at different levels" and all kinds of other yurunda to justify your enabling, but they are adults now. NOT boys, NOT kids, which is what you keep calling them. Keep enabling them and they'll never have a reason to mature indeed. Have you ever heard "The definition of insanity is to keep on doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results"?

I'd be curious to know how much of a helicopter mom you were and if these overgrown brats were ever allowed to bang their toes falling as they were learning to walk.

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@Mike H & Kitty
"I agree that the age of the adult boys makes a big difference in how the situation is handled. If they are still very young adults, then it's possible for the parents to have some influence on them and be able to help them, but if they're in their 30's or 40's, then they've already made their life choices and distancing themselves from the "boys" is probably a better idea."
Yes they will be more "set in their ways" the more they age, but they will also be more arrogantly convinved they can't possibly be wrong the younger they are into adulthood.

The thing is, the minute they turn of age, they cannot be compelled to do anything they don't want, and there's a lot they won't be interested in doing for themselves, as long as mommy is there to bail them out the minute her husband's back is turned. This is the crux of the problem here. Whether "all" contact should be cut depends on the exact nature of the "less than legal activities" the LW is conveniently glossing over. Now THAT is the crux of the problem as far as the husband is concerned, and I can't say I blame him.

@Annies
"Your husband should not be issuing ultimatums wherein you must choose between the man you love and the children you love."
And she shouldn't be going behind his back to allow them back in the house after they engaged in illegal activities there in their absence and without their consent. Pay their rent? "Temporarily"? Yeah, RIGHT. You do realise that this is yet more enabling, right?

@Jane #5
Yes, there are people who are homeless by choice, because they choose to continue making bad choices. But an appalling percentage of homeless people are veterans who can't get help for the mental conditions they got as a thank you for their service.

Re: Michelle #7
Nowhere is it said he's demanding that she completely cut off "all contact". He's resenting that she goes behind his back to conitnue enabling them, and doesn't want them in their home, and he's perfectly right on both counts. She should NOT be doing either of that.

No, right or wrong, he cannot dictate to her who to associate with. But all choices have consequences. If she repeatedly chooses to ignore the fact that he doesn't want them in their home, and has good reasons for that, then she is putting her marriage in danger, because she IS choosing them over him. Not to mention exposing their home to the fallout of illegal activities. Should they lose their home over this, you can be damn sure her marriage is over.

She refuses to let her sons live with the consequences to THEIR choices... well, her husband is not such a wimp, and she'll soon find that out if she refuses to wake up and smell the coffee.

@Chris #8
"If one of your boys shows up and needs a shower or wants to wash a load of clothes, your husband should allow that without calling the police."
Not in his absence. I wouldn't trust the idiotic woman to have the gumption to put her foot down if I were him, should the sons decided to resume the "less than legal" activities in her presence. And they're no longer "boys".

LW2: And PLEASE tell your brother in person or call him. Do not do it by friggin text or email.

LW1: You seem to be one of those mothers who has the attitude of “boy will be boys!” Your delusion that they'll “mature” out of it is sad. Here are the facts: They're adults. One, or both, don't drive. One is homeless. They embarked on illegal activities in *your* house (and don't use this bull sh*t line of “less than legal” Illegal is illegal.) No wonder your husband doesn't respect them and is at the end of his line. I'm sure you let your boys get away with everything growing up and never expected them to pull good grades or work. You've enabled them into poor, unproductive, homeless adults. Good work.

The fat Annies and their manhating minions will have a field say with LW1. Some will blame the husband, others will blame the spoiled, selfish male children, but few will criticize the female LW who raised these brats and is likely enabling their behaviour.

MEN. They're to blame for EVERYTHING.

It's Unreliable Narrator Day here at the Annies -- and hey everybody, in both cases, they're women! And I STILL think they are completely unreliable narrators! Which would be shocking, except for the part where I FREQUENTLY call out LWs for not being reliable narrators, and since the majority of the Annies' audience is comprised of women, the odds are that I have called out any number of female writers as being unreliable. I know, what has the world come to?

LW1 -- agree with everyone who has noted that the LW goes to great pains to de-emphasize the illegal behavior and also is very careful not to share the ages of any of the kids. Totally unreliable narrator, and it's a safe bet that if we had some of the information she is so careful to omit, the response from the BTL would be only stronger than what it has been. The only thing I will call out the husband on is where he (allegedly) tells his wife that she must love her children more than her husband, since she consistently chooses their wants/needs over his wants/needs. This isn't a contest to see who she loves more, or at least it shouldn't be. The thing is, the LW is such an unreliable narrator that I am unconvinced the husband has ever actually said half the stuff she claims he has.

LW2 -- agree with everyone who has noted that you don't explain WHY you are so rarely invited to family gatherings, and no doubt, that is entirely relevant to the advice you seek. If I received an invitation to my brother's wedding, and I had already booked a non-refundable trip, I would call my brother the second I got the invitation to tell him what was going on, that I was going to look into whether there was ANY way I could get out of the non-refundable trip (it's worth a try), but that if I couldn't get my money back for that, I'd be stuck. I wouldn't be hemming and hawing over this and then further dragging my feet on it by appealing to an advice column. It is likely that the advice to just call him and tell him what is going on wouldn't change much if we knew the reason that your family frequently leaves you out of stuff, but there's really no way for us to know that without this information.

@Lise, except I don't know that we can say for sure that the extent of the legal difficulties is really what the husband is concerned with. The LW left so much out of the letter, so there's enough for a wide variety of possible scenarios. She also alludes to the strong possibility that her husband has *never* treated her sons fairly -- and how they were treated as teens would certainly have an affect on the type of young men they became. We can't rule out the influence that parents can have. Also, if the situation is as mild as the LW suggests it is (hard to know, again, for sure), then I've seen many instances where a little "extra" help in the late teens and early 20s can help "right the ship". But by the time someone is in their 30s, their habits are much more ingrained and the influence a parent can have is substantially less.

There are so many gaps in her story it's impossible for us to say with any certainty that she's wrong or right or somewhere in the middle. The "legal difficulty" could be as simple as being caught with a little pot, or else it could be as serious as a mugging or grand theft auto. So the husband's reaction could be legitimately concerned OR making a mountain out of a molehill. Impossible to tell from the letter, unfortunately.

@Princess Bride -- as I have said any number of times before, I actually do agree that there is a certain amount of gender bias from the Annies and the BTL. Part of that is due to simple math: the Annies are both women, the vast majority of their readers and LWs are women, and most of the commenters here are women. Any time you have a situation where nearly 90% of the participants are all one gender, the perspectives shared are going to be skewed toward that gender. In cases like that, the gender bias isn't necessarily intentional (though sometimes, of course, it is) and isn't a result of one gender hating another (but again, sometimes it is). And, as I have said any number of times before, you hurt your own argument when you go looking for gender bias where there really is none.

But you REALLY kill off your credibility when you clearly don't bother to actually read the comments before immediately jumping to the conclusion that all of us would blame one of the males in LW1 rather than call out the female LW -- which, nearly across the board, is what most of the BTL participants did (so far).

Will some please pass me an eclair?

@Lisa, don't forget that if a woman is an unreliable narrator, it's almost certainly a reaction to a problem that was caused by a man. It's more than obvious that men ARE to blame for everything. Let's have some donuts, hot chicks!

This subject hit me like a ton of bricks. I work with homeless veterans - and my son is homeless. I can honestly say that most people that are homeless don't want to be. Is it their fault? Sometimes, but not that often. Most have had things happen that made their lives spin out of control. A good share of it is drug abuse because they are self medicating a mental illness, because they can't or won't get treatment. That is why my son is homeless. He won't take lithium (he's lucky it works for him without side affects). I have offered to pay for it for him. In our community there is a mental health clinic for the chronically homeless. It costs $5 to see a practitioner, then the cost of the meds. Peple like my son would rather smoke pot and drink to drown out their sorrows rather than deal with their problems. He won't get a job either. He steals for a living, which is why he is in jail. "Andy" is 22 years old and my husband "Jon" won't let him in our house either. Andy has tried to start fights with my husband, he has stolen from our home and lies to us about everything. I have finally reached the point where I have had to let him go. It's tough love like Lise says, but for me it's also to protect my own sanity. I love my son, but I have to let him go to deal with his own problems. I see now that every time I "rescued" him, I was actually hurting him by not forcing him to deal with his own problems. Yeah, it's wrong for the husband to issue ultimatums, but probably lke Jon he can see how much this "kid" is hurting the LW. She shouldn't go behind his back either, it's bad for her marraige. I did the same thing and it really compromised the trust that Jon and I had. In case you are wondering what kind of crappy parent I am , I'm not. The other kids are fine. This one is just always looking for a way to run a scam, and has his whole life. He was arrested for the first time when he was 10. I have been in court with him countless times, I've had him admitted to long term residential treatment centers, I have made sure he had psychiatric and medical care, and I have always let him know that he is loved.
LW2: Call your brother and tell him. If you don't have the guts to do it have your husband call. Why would your brother have his celebration the same weekend of your anniversary? Does he know? If he gets angry it's his problem , not yours.
LW3: What Chris said.

So, if I say that I hate all men and blame them for everything, can I have a pizza? (I'm probably not enough of a hot chick to rate a donut, but I'm hungry!!!!)

Love the old riddle, "If a man speaks and there are no women around to hear him, is he still wrong?". The correct answer is, "Of course!". So I must back PB... "Men. They're to blame for EVERYTHING. Good call PB. An eclair sound good this morning. Anyone have any 1/2 and 1/2 this AM, I'm out?

@jennylee, by the power vested in me as an honorary member of the She-Woman Man-Haters Club, I dub thee a Hot Chick of Sufficient Hotness to Rate a Donut!

Pizza, eclairs, and margaritas (some with extra salt) are available by the buffet table. Don't forget to grab a Man-Hating Stick as you enter.

Re: Jane #5
Jane, you forgot the part where you say that everyone on welfare or food stamps is a lazy scammer who could perfectly well work if he wanted to. Or that everyone who is overweight is that way because he chooses to cram food into his body every waking moment.
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Unless you know all the circumstances for every homeless person in the country, please don't generalize-------it makes everything else you post subject to disbelief, since you cannot possibly know everyone's circumstances, or even most of them.
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We have scammers and lazy people everywhere. We also have people who are trying as hard as they can, and failing, everywhere. To my knowledge, you have no superhuman powers that let you hear that someone is homeless and immediately know that he just doesn't WANT to work. And when you say that, it makes me, at least, tend to discount anything else you might say, and I don't want to do that, because you have some very good posts.

Re: Mike H #23
Mike, I'm on my way.
I am carrying that stick, and it's pretty big; do I also need to speak softly? (We Man-Haters tend to get kind of shrill sometimes.)

@Bella Amore, thanks for sharing your perspective on LW1. I thought that Jane's response seemed a little out-of-touch, so I appreciate hearing another side of the story. I know my step-dad also does a lot of work with veterans with various medical and psychological issues, and it just didn't seem accurate to suggest that everyone who is homeless is so by choice.

Re: Mike H #17
"except I don't know that we can say for sure that the extent of the legal difficulties is really what the husband is concerned with. "
What he's really concerned about changes nothing to the hard facts. Honestly, Mike, it wouldn't even MATTER is deep down inside, what the REAL matter is, is that he hates the "kids". The hard facts here is that they used their house for illegal activities in their absence and without their consent. That in itself is the main hasard here, as it could lead to them losing the house and even land them in jail for complicity - regardless of how emotional, unreasonable, dead wrong and whatnot the man *may* possibly be about anything else.

And I'm with Datura here: "What 'less than legal' activity are we talking about? Were your sons selling drugs out of your house? Stealing your things and selling them? Having wild parties that ended up involving the cops? Having sex with underage girls? Or are we talking about something like your 18 year old son having a beer? Something tells me it isn't the last one."

The fact that the LW glosses over the big stuff (no details on the "less than legal" stuff, no ages given of the "boys") and given how much crucial information is missing (why is Good Son not taking in the homeless one? Why is other derelict brother not taking in the homeless one?), Lisa is right - she is extremely unrealiable as a narrator.

Considering that she's trying to make her husband look bad, if there was any substance at all to the "I feel as if he has never really cared for them", we'd be getting plenty of details on THAT, I'm sure. Just like she'd be making a better case than this if the deriliction was truly minor and he WAS making a mountain out of molehill. That she doesn't specify more than that sure looks like doing so wouldn't be at her advantage.

Yeah, there are no many gaps in her story that the Titanic is sailing right through them and sinking it. Pass the plate with the extra meat balls, and is there any chianti left in that bottle?

Re LW#1------
I think those of you who have said that the LW has been way, way too ready to make excuses for everything her sons did, and gloss over the details, are absolutely correct. And I'm a firm believer in tough love.
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But I'm getting a sense here that the step-dad is getting way too much enjoyment out of enforcing his "tough love". To practice tough love, you have to also have some love there, and it sounds like there may not be too much of that coming from him. Just from her letter, and from the things she left out, she sounds like someone who coddles and makes excuses, and he sounds like he maybe marched in there with some military-style discipline (like the 'you'd better respect me'), and the two have been clashing over her kids for a long time. He is now overjoyed that their legal responsibility is over and he can enforce the '"Get out of my house" thing.
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I understand that; 'and I sympathize with his not wanting them in the house, after whatever illegal thing they did); but I would think she could meet them elsewhere to visit, and if she wants to bring their laundry home, wash it, and take it back, I guess I don't see too much wrong with that, although he might.
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And he has no business making it a contest as to whom she loves the most. As spoiled as they may be (because she probably spoiled them), they are her sons, and he doesn't get to try and force her to cut them out of her life.

The last thing most of you ladies need is another snack. Try spending more time at the gym and you won't have to lash out at the people on here who criticize obese whales.

Mike, how's your pet doing?

PB: What do you mean? We LOVE men. You can ask my husband after I unchain him from the stove. He's been crying for hours about how it's cold and could I let him wear some clothes or some food today. I don't even know what he's talking about. I gave him a sock and a piece of bread a few hours ago! Men!

Re LW#2------
I'm sorry, but given the fact that you seldom get invited to family things now, even if you did give up your prior plans and show up, you still may not get invited to anything in the future. Sounds like they just don't care if you're there or not, for whatever reason, and this invitation is probably a courtesy thing, not necessarily because they want you.
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You had plans before they decided to celebrate their marriage several months after the fact; explain that to them right away, and enjoy your vacation. Just because you share the same blood, you are not obliged to cancel other plans because they set something up after you are committed to your own thing.
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I run into people all the time who know my oldest brother (because everybody knows him), and when I tell them I'm his sister, I usually get "Oh, I didn't know he had a sister." I know he loves me, but we are really different, and I don't fit in with his friends or most of his life. I'm fine with it, because being around him, and his friends, in social situations, I am ill-at-ease and never really feel like myself. He's a big extrovert, I'm not.
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So I have my own life, and though my friends know I have a brother, most of them haven't met him------no reason for them to. My life is separate from his, and I like it that way. (I've gotten lots of last-minute, half-hearted invitations from him for things that he apparently thinks he has to invite me to;' I just decline and mention 'other plans'. Then we both are happy.

Lise Brouillette,

You shouldn't mock the people who are paying for your BS payments.

Jimagine que tu vie a Hochelaga-Maisonneuve. lol

Re: Princess Bride
Dear Princess,
Didn't your mother, the Queen, teach you not to name-call. Why do you think it's important to call the Annies "fat". That's unnecessary and just plain mean.

Re: Princess Bride
1. You don't pay for my welfare check.
2. I don't live in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve.
3. Your French is bad.

@Lise, I think you're conflating things a bit too much in the absence of evidence. "Less than legal" might mean they had one party where one person who was underage had a beer. Or it might mean they were running a meth lab out of the basement like Walter White. So, yeah, I think it DOES make a HUGE difference exactly what "less than legal" activity was going on. The stepfather might be properly concerned or simply blowing something way out of proportion as an excuse to cut off kids he never truly cared for. There's nothing in the letter to suggest that either possibility is more or less likely, hence the frustration with the missing details. There are plenty of men who have treated other men's children badly, and maybe the LW is finally getting fed up with a history of her husband doing so. Or perhaps she is covering up for some serious problems because she's a blind enabler. Both scenarios happen frequently enough in life where it's anyone's guess.

@PB, I find it's actually a bit too hard to properly wield the Man-Hating Stick if you are too skinny, so I think we all have to keep our efforts to gain as much weight as possible going strong. I'm afraid the dessert cart is here to stay, although you should be proud that you were a large part of it happening. I don't think any of us would have come to the revelation that men really are to blame for everything without your tireless efforts, so I have to thank you for opening our eyes to the true nature of all problems. It's actually very helpful.

More seriously, Dante is still struggling a bit, and I'm afraid that the problems are serious enough where we are just maintaining his comfort level and giving him medication to support him as best we can. He's not in any pain or discomfort just yet, but he is continuing to lose weight, which is troubling. So Ike and I are simply cherishing every day we still have with him, but whether he'll last for a few more months or just a few more weeks is hard to know at this point. Thanks for asking.

Re: Mike H
I'm heading for the buffet table right now! Jennylee, can I have some of your pizza with my Margarita? I'll even bring my own stick.

Off-topic, obese whales are actually lovely, intelligent creatures. Whale-song is haunting, and along with dolphins it's quite possible that whales are nearly intelligent, if not more intelligent, than we are. (I doubt whales spend too much time trying to make other whales feel bad about themselves, for example -- sounds smart to me!)

So, grab a donut or an eclair and try to be more like the kind, intelligent, beautiful whale!

(And mad Captain Ahab was a man, after all... )

I hope that LW1 can read Lise's answer as well as Bella Amore's story. When I saw the less than legal (excuse) from the LW, I immediately thought drugs for sale in their home. Around here, if you harbor a drug seller with his goods in your home, your home can be seized according to drug forfeiture laws, so the husband might be worried with good reasons. Even having the police come with a warrant to toss your home looking for evidence would be awful. She needs to look at her sons through hubby's eyes. She says he never really liked them, well, that could be because they are lazy, lying scammers, and he saw them for what they are. Her letter drips with excuse making and minimizing, so I am more on his side. She says they are adults, that makes them over 21 in my book, and that makes them responsible to find a job and an apartment. With each other, with roommates, whatever. There are temporary day jobs and SRO buildings in most big cities. I think it's time to give them a one way bus ticket to the nearest city and be done with them.

First thing is- I don't think there is any valid reason to think that the parents will lose their house since they played no part in the. 'Somewhat illegal' activities, they were gone and had no idea what was happening. If I am wrong please give me an documented case to support the claim. Short of a meth lab that blew up the house, I think they're safe on this front. I see all sorts of down playing the issues with the sons as others have stated. If his daughters were also a problem I have no doubt THAT would have been mentioned. So it comes down to her errant sons. She needs to love them enough to allow them to grow up and become productive citizens. Sounds like hubby might be better off without the LW.

Re: Penny
I can't off the top of my head think of an instance where someone lost their house. But when I was 18, my high school boyfriend's sister was caught selling drugs to one of her classmates. When the police raided the house, they tore it apart. Not just her bedroom either. They went into my boyfriend's bedroom, their parents bedroom and all of the other rooms in the house. And when the police search your home, they are not gentle. If they want to check a cupboard, they open the door and sweep everything onto a floor - ripping open any bags they find along the way.

Alternately, when my brother turned 18, he was headed down the path to becoming a career criminal. I won't get into what he did, but it ended with police pounding on the door at 5am. When my mother told them that she just needed to put on a robe before she opened the door, they yelled back that she open it immediately or they would break it down. Like the above story, they not-so-gently searched the house before taking my brother to serve his 5-8.

Ah, geez, I was in a meeting and now the donut box is empty!!!
Oh well...LUNCH!

Lise Brouillette wrote:

Re: Princess Bride
1. You don't pay for my welfare check.
2. I don't live in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve.
3. Your French is bad.
-
*********************************************

1. Actually, a portion of my cheque does pay for you and the other bums in Quebec to sit at home.
2. I'm surprised. Pointe-aux-Trembles then? I'm sure you're in the eastern part of Montreal.
3. This is true. My French is awful.

@Mary Ann, now worries, I'm getting ready to drop off a few more boxes from Dunkin' Donuts in a few minutes. Or you can have pizza for lunch and donuts for dessert!

RE: Mike H

I am genuinely sorry about your cat. I lost my dog two years ago and I still find it difficult to talk about him. I know what you are going through and it isn't easy. Hang in there.

LW 1 is right about one thing: she is a horrible mother. All her children turned out bad while the husband's daughters turned out fine. She was probably a helicopter mom and the sons never learned to do anything for themselves. She should listen to her husband about this and try to learn from him. Are you reading this Princess Bride?? The woman is totally wrong in this case.

I have no idea if someone can lose their house due to the illegal activities of others, but I've known of more than one who have lost cars, boats and motorhomes because they were being used for drug sales.
My sister is a retired corrections officer for the state of Washington, and she had to get a restraining order against her own daughter, banning her from their home, in order to protect her job. The department has zero tolerance for employees harboring drug users and had her daughter been found at her home with drugs in her system, her employment would have been terminated. Even with that, she had to document any contact they had, and turn that in to her supervisor.
LW left way too much out of her letter to know if they have that kind of situation or not. However, I have to side completely with her husband and her vagueness is exactly why. She is clearly leaving out details in order to make her sons sound better than they are, and if she's doing that in a letter to the Annies, I'm sure she does it in conversations with him as well. She comes across an a classic enabler, and he is right to draw a firm line at keeping them out of the house.

@Mike H -- I do agree with you that we do not have enough information from LW1 to be sure about a whole lot. As a journalist, I sometimes tend to be a tad suspicious when a person leaves important information out. One of the things I tell the people I interview if they choose to go the "no comment" route is that even though "no comment" should be read as "no comment," many people see "no comment" and hear "I'm guilty."

Now, granted, it's possible that the LW provided more info and it was edited out, but the way she seems to dance around the truth suggests otherwise. She talks about how "people mature at different levels," which I take to be a reference to the fact that her adult sons are not being responsible adults without actually telling us how old they are. She talks about "less than legal activity" without actually telling us what said activity was. Now, I admit that what I'm about to say is me reading way into this, but when someone basically obfuscates the truth -- and on more than one occasion in a fairly short letter -- I start wondering about the motivation there. My guess: she knows she is far less likely to find support from the Annies (or anyone else) if she offers up those salient details. So, she glosses over the truth and hopes no one will notice.

As to the allegation that the step-father never really cared for them... well, then perhaps she shouldn't have married a man who wasn't prepared to care for her children. Except she says in her first paragraph she is so grateful that the two of them both took on this challenge and in the next paragraph notes that they HAVE had good times (as well bad -- to the point of horrible -- times), which suggests that the husband did at least make a real effort at some point. So, I'm inclined to dismiss the LW's allegation.
I'm not suggesting it's impossible that the husband really didn't care for these boys, never really gave them much of a chance, and, as you noted, that can have a very negative impact on a kid when someone in parental capacity clearly doesn't love them and doesn't believe in them. Just saying that, to be honest, LW is so unreliable a narrator that I'm not buying it.

But you are right -- we cannot know this for certain given the facts in hand. Having those facts would, no doubt, make a big difference in the response at the BTL.

while I understand love for one's children is great. when I ask Ev to marry me I maded it clear I wouldn't put anyone or thing before her.
while I understand a parent's love for their children. When I ask my wife to marry I vowed I would not put anyone or anything before her. Everyone understood this and accepted this. I never ask the children to love me or respect just be honest with me. I never had a stepchild or your kids and my kids. They were our family. We spent 32 years without a cross word be she joined her lord. If you start with honesty you will win on all counts.

Re: Mike H
Frankly, Mike, considering she would have loved to be told by the Annies that her husband is being too hard and that she should be taking her two poor, sobbing sons in her bosom and console them... if it was an inocuous little teeny-bopper party with one underage kid drinking a beer, we would be hearing all of the details that are presently missing. Given that, there is indeed plenty in the letter that suggest things one way and not the other, namely the very absence of things. Yes indeed, "both scenarios happen frequently enough in life", but in this particular case, it would have been to her advantage to give details if her husband was being such a drama queen - she didn't. These details are missing for a reason.

This being established, if you wanna continue this week's tendency to play devils's advocate, refuse to read between the lines and insist that the two of them are poor little bo-boys who are being unfairly maligned (sob) and the husband an evil stepfather who hated the boys from Day One, suit yourself. The man-bashing stick is by the door.

@Datura #40
Their precious search warrant doesn't cancel the rights of law-abiding citizens, is no excuse to treat incidental people like garbage, and your mother like a public slut that can go naked in front of the whole world. Law-abiding citizens don't stop being human because some two-bit petty criminal is NOT law-abiding. Things like that make me ripping mad. I would have gotten a lawyer.

@Toad Prince
I started earning a living at 16 and sure paid enough taxes into the system that, now that I'm the one who needs it, I can take my check without feeling guilty. Especially since, at my age, part of it is Quebec pension, of which I actually earned every penny. And I don't "sit at home" so, so f(u)ck off already. And no, I don't live in Montreal East. There are plenty of below-the-tracks poor districts west of St-Laurent Blvd.

And now if you don't mind, I'm off to set up my tables at the church basement flea market.

Today's special for the man-bashing club:
http: / / www.gocomics.com / comic / explore / 1264850 / 19

A little bit of follow up ;
My husband wasn't so much pissed at what Andy was doing, as he was and is incredibly pissed that my son could treat me bad. (Andy says it's all my fault he's homeless and jobless, therefore I owe him and I've never been able to do enough).
When Jon and I were dating he and I went away for a week. When I got home one of the local police told me that they had suspision that Andy was selling drugs (crack) from my house while I was away. The cops have always liked me, because as much trouble as Andy was, I was always cooperative with them. Anyway, I got a formal letter from the Chief of Police telling me that if they ever get word of him using my house to sell drugs they would come with a search warrant. If they found anything they would take my house from me. (I checked with a lawyer - yes, they can do this!!) I spoke to my cop friend and had them come in and search my house. It was a one time shot that if they found anything they would confiscate it, but I wouldn't be charged. VERY IMPORTANT!! This was in writing!! It was then that I decided I could no longer live with the stress of Andy living at home. I spoke to people I know that work at a homeless shelter and they took him in that day. Until he stole from them....
I've worked for the VA for a long time. I know some of our vetrans have fallen through the cracks. I also know that the VA is hiring a lot of mental health professionals and really can't keep up. I've seen a lot of young men come home that have some of the worst PTSD I've seen. If there are any veterans that need help, please call your closest VA or go to the ER. or call 1-800-273-8255 (PRESS #1) If you are a homeless vet and need help call 1-877-424-3838. I'll get off my soap box now... I need a donut and some pizza.

@Lise, simply pointing out that there's nowhere near enough information in a letter to be so certain about an interpretation isn't anywhere near the same as taking a side either way. You're ridiculously over-exaggerating my point as well as nearing Bobaloo-levels of insistence that your interpretation of the letter is the only possible one, but that seems to be par for the course recently.

Of course, you praise me when my skepticism aligns with your own, but this week you seem determined to take this all too personally for some reason. (And your petty descriptions about me and the LW's children, for example, are exactly the kind of snideness that is uncalled for and certainly not matched in ANY of my responses today. The personal attacks and snark are unappreciated and certainly beneath you.)

I'm just saying we don't know. There's more left out of the letter than most, and there's room for reasonable speculation on many sides of this issue. I'm sorry that this simple, factual statement offends your sensibilities for some reason that I still find completely unfathomable.

Maybe you need a donut. Of course, I'm a man, so I have to admit I am to blame for everything.

@Lise Brouillette

You can't talk to me like that! I'm practically your employer!

Unfortunately, many Quebecers have your same poor outlook about public resources and being on the dole. That's why our province has to rely on money from Western Canada to stay afloat economically. Ouinnnn.

@Lisa, many thanks, I appreciate your take on this. I'm just reluctant to get overly mean or blunt or certain when a situation contains so many questions, so many variables, that would actually make a dramatic difference in how I would advise the LWs to react. It's true that as it stands, the LW makes a relatively weak case for her point, but it's hard to know whether the weakness is in the editing, or in the heart of the real situation. And even so, there are variables that would be perfectly reasonable to assume that would indeed bolster her case and still fit exactly into the content of the LW as we have it.

Simply saying I don't feel we have enough information to be certain and that the LW and her husband need to communicate, get counseling, and get back on the same page about all their children, is advice that I hardly think is offensive either way, as I think it nicely covers all sorts of variables, regardless of whether the LW's situation is as it is described, or the way others BTL are interpreting it.

@Lise, one additional point, we already have sufficient proof that letters are edited that leave out pertinent information that has completely changed the BTL interpretation of the LWs in the past, so you absolutely cannot say for sure that if the "less than legal activity" WAS innocuous, then "we would be hearing all of the details that are presently missing" -- we already know that that hasn't happened in other letters, so there's no reason to suggest it couldn't happen again, or even with some frequency with many letters. That's why I've simply raised the possibility and said that we don't know with any certainty one way or the other.

And now I think I'm ready for some pizza and margaritas.

@Mike H -- I completely understand your hesitation here -- we definitely do not KNOW has purposely left salient information out, though that is definitely my suspicion, and without that information, we cannot say for CERTAIN how that information might change any of our perspectives on this. And I would also agree that regardless of which way this cookie really does crumble, it's clear the LW and her husband need to find a way to get on the same page here, and counseling may well be the only way that will happen.

Now, why did I have to go and mention a cookie...

LW- I'm with those of you who says she is brushing aside very important information regarding what the illegal things were. My hubby and I have a blended family too and we would support each other if one of our kids disrespected the other parent.

OFF TOPIC- I have a hella of a headache today... I think I will blame my husband, have peanut butter pie, some margarita's, some McDonalds, skip the gym and again blame my husband because after all, MEN-They are the blame for everything

Re: JustBecause
You know what? I've had a headache this afternoon too ... I didn't know what was causing it, but after reading your post, I realized it's my boss' fault. He wasn't in the office this afternoon, but the thought that he might come back in probably was the problem. MEN - they're to blame for everything!

LW1: WTH? You raised boys to remain boys and you married a boy who can't be a man. Wow. Truly amazing.

LW2: Well, if you're already rarely included then no real loss. Grow up and learn to accept reality.

@Lisa, cookies sound good! I'll agree that it's reasonable to assume there is a strong possibility that the LW is shading the truth a bit in her descriptions of the boys. I just can't quite suggest that it's a certainty, but let's say I wouldn't be shocked if your hunch is correct, either.

@JustBecause, @kitty, as a man, let me first apologize for all the headaches we are causing. I know I share the blame for everything, since I'm a man. But boy, let me tell you -- men have caused me some headaches in my time as well!

I'm off to get fat on Thai food and ridiculously strong mai-tais!

Oh, for Pete's sake, people. For all those of you who are saying blah, blah, blah, people who are poor and homeless and on food stamps sometimes get that way through no fault of their own and boo hoo, I AGREE WITH YOU.

But that's NOT what I said.

Read it again: "Sorry, but nobody STAYS homeless unless that's the lifestyle they've chosen." Note the word STAYS. STAYS homeless. In other words, yeah, people can hit a rough patch through no fault of their own. But anyone who STAYS homeless (in the United States and most of Canada) is homeless because they WANT to be--because there is something else they want MORE than a home.

There is simply no freaking way, with all the kabillions of dollars spent on safety nets in North America, and all the opportunities, that anyone who really wants to make a go of things can't do it and STAYS homeless. Yes, you can fall. And some people are too old, sick or mentally ill to fend for themselves (and for them, there are places to go). But sorry, a healthy young man who refuses to get back up simply doesn't want it badly enough. If that son is homeless, and he STAYS homeless, he is homeless because he likes that situation better than (take your pick) getting a job, leading a legal life, taking his medication, getting off the drugs and booze, going back to school, etc.

I stand by what I said.

Re: @Jane #60
"There is simply no freaking way, with all the kabillions of dollars spent on safety nets in North America, and all the opportunities, that anyone who really wants to make a go of things can't do it and STAYS homeless."

That might be true if a huge percentage of the "kabillions" actually went to the homeless or to help them and was not being funneled from taxpayer and charity coffers to poorly run inefficient government programs, non-profits more concerned about their budgets, directors, salaries and perks and getting their piece of pie than solving homeless issues (as well as having free reign to moralize and prosthelytize). And don't forget all that money being funneled to line the pockets of the hallowed "private sector". Some of the homeless simply have the terrible luck of having been born into an abusive, isolated family to which they can't turn for help in times of crisis and then having a series of bad breaks. With no family, extended family, or friends to help you with job loss, medical bills, abusive relationships and other catastrophes some people just fall through the cracks and are not able to save enough money to get on their feet for a very long time. Not everyone wants their kids either staying in a shelter with drug addicted and mentally ill occupants, or in foster care either.

Let me try this again. You may see a partial post because I was typing away on my laptop and poof, my post was gone.

@Mike #59- Yummo on the Thai food and the ridiculously strong mai-tais

@EstherGreenwood # 61- Very well said!

Re: EstherGreenwood #61
I echo the "very well said" which JustBecause posted in #63!

Re: Mike H #54
While it is certainly true that the Annies are perfectly capable of editing out crucial details that change the entire perception of the letter, we still have to go by what we've got. Until the LW or her husband write in with an update, I do go by what we've got. I'll change my mind if need be after one of the protagonists has chimed in. In the meantime, if I'm Bobaloo-like in my "insistence that my interpretation of the letter is the only possible one", I sure ain't the only one with my interpretation today, including some who have walked in her shoes.

It's pretty much been unanimous across the board, with you the only dissenting voice. Even Lisa, while admitting that there was a lot that was conveniently left out, was very much leaning my way regarding the definite impression she got.

Of course there could have been details edited out that could completely change the read. But that can also be said about any letter on any day forever and ever. If we start speculating about what could have been edited out that will make the letter the contrary of what it is every time, there is nothing left to talk about about any LW. Not to mention that all these "what ifs" will get all of us started with Bobaloo-spins big time. And you seem to be in that kind of mood this week.

I don't need a donut - just had one. I would need a BEER. A big one.

Just to remind everybody, in case you forgot:

Men. They're to blame for EVERYTHING.

Sorry I'm way late to the party, but I'd say today's top two letters are about the number 5. LW1 being about five kids in a hybrid "Brady Bunch" that isn't exactly ... and LW2 being from a family of five siblings who may have to miss a wedding.

LW1: I have to wonder if there was something about the relationship between the two "bad" sons -- face it, they are definitely not your friendly neighborhood Greg or Peter or Bobby Brady -- and your husband that led to this point, where he doesn't even want to associate with them or be associated with them. Certainly, the seeds had to have been sewn long before it came to the point where your husband doesn't want them in the house for even a second ... long before this "less than legal" activity took place. (And granted, we don't know what exactly this "less than legal" (i.e., illegal) activity was ... from a sex ring to drugs and a large party).

In any case, you've got a choice to make, it seems: Your sons or your marriage. It's gotten to a point where you just simply CANNOT HAVE BOTH. You just can't. Sorry. The choice you make indeed may be one you don't want to make.

Yes, it may lead to a call at 2 a.m. ... "Mom, I'm in jail. I've been charged with drugs/armed robbery/murder/having sex with an underage girl/vehicular homicide while driving drunk/etc. Please, please help me!" But that's where things have gotten to. You do need to respect your husband's wishes ... even if that means going against your own flesh and blood ... sorry.

LW2: Same as everyone else -- call him up or tell him directly. Then, consider who you do business with next time when booking a vacation. I know this is how some travel agencies run, but situations other than a sibling's wedding come up -- real emergencies such as a death in the family when you were to take the trip, for instance.

If they are that hard-assed that they won't refund or change the date, then DO NOT do business with that agency again. Ever!

@Lise, but Lisa is acknowledging probabilities and possibilities, where you keep talking more black and white. It's a chronic problem that keeps cropping up between us. I use words like "may" and "possibly" very deliberately, and you consistently re-interpret those words as if I were saying "is" and "definitely".

Shades of grey versus black-and-white. I think if you keep that in mind that may help alleviate some of the frustration you have apparently been having with me lately, even though my own style of contribution hasn't changed.

Oh, and I'm sorry, I forget to add:

Men. They're to blame for EVERYTHING.

Re: Mike H
And do keep in mind you're a man. :-D

i am the mother of the boys that eveyone is making comments on, and you are right..i didnt add a few things, but if it will help you with your comments, feel free to get down and dirty and ask point blank questions..i will answer them honestly.

if you have questions...i will answer them as brutally honest as i can...

the is lw1..i dont have my name listed...mine is blended family...

#71, #72 and #73

this is blended family...#71, 72 and 73...you cant answer questions you dont know the answers to...this the real blended family narrator...at work right now, but when i get done i will answer some of these questions

gang, I think I'll get started on the popcorn

YES LISA BETTER GET THAT POPCORN BECAUSE THIS WILL BE A LONG COMMENT. I WASNT TRYING TO BE VAGUE ON ANYTHING, JUST TRYING TO PUT WHAT I COULD FOR THE PAPER TO EVEN CONSIDER IT. i AM READING EACH AND EVERY COMMENT SO THAT I CAN ANSWER AND CLARIFY WHAT CAN TO BETTER HELP EVERYONE UNDERSTAND. I IN NO SHAPE FASHION OR FORM AM TRYING TO MAKE MY HUSBAND LOOK BAD. I LOVE HIM AND I LOVE MY KIDS.

to be continued

Re: blended family
Ok, so if you really are the LW, then answer the questions you said you were willing to answer:
1. What exactly is this "less than legal" activity they indulged in in your home while you were away on vacation?
2. How old are these "boys"?
3. How come the third "good" son won't take in the homeless one?
4. How come the second miscreant son won't take in the homeless one?

P.S.: Stop yelling. Caps are actually harder to read than lower case.

my 19 yr has a medical marijuana license and he was making wax at our house while we were on vacation. I have been told since then that is you have a license that it isn't illegal, but a safety issue. my kids are 26, 21, and 19 and the girls are 19 and 21. My 26 yr old and his wife and two children live with me and my husband in the downstairs of our house...we own a 3800 square ft home so they rent the bottom half..and he cant let the 21 even come over to visit his nieces, because my husband says even though they pay rent, he wants him no one where around. And come to find out after I wrote that article the 21 yr old had nothing to do with the wax making. the 19 yr does on occasion let the 21 yr old stay there, but he has control and anger issues,and if he gets upset he justs kicks him out...so he then sleeps in his car...I don't where he takes showers or what. He has recently went for for two job interviews, so he is doing what he can. My 21 yr old got upset because my husband was accusing him of something he didn't do and it turned into a yelling match and my husband had originally given him a month to get his act together but then when they started arguing ended the month thing. I really am not trying to make anyone look bad...just getting a feel for what others think. To me washing his clothes or letting me shower seems trivial to get upset over...but since then I have just surrendered and say whatever and let my husband make all the decisions and I stand behind it...I don't agree with it and I worry and cry a lot, but I guess as long as he is happy..then there are no arguments. If you have further questions or need more clarification to get a better understanding of things...just ask...and my one daughter isn't working...her girlfriend is supporting her..and my other daughter is expecting a baby...the hurt I have is that during holidays when it is suppose to be family time, we cant even come together under one roof, because of all the turmoil...I feel like I cant even enjoy my family with out being reprimanded....let me know if you have other questions or thoughts

now that i have went through some of these comments and jotted down some notes, i have a few responses to those as well....people refer to it as my husband's property...we bought the land and house together...i didnt enable them in school...they all graduated and one even is in college...also there are other issues that I know my husband holds over his head with resentment. Since they arent blood related..there was a physical relationship..on both willing sides, but my husband definitely blames the maie. When clearly there were texts from both of them way up into the wee hours of the morning. it was then that everything started going downhill...I wasnt the best stepmom in the world and apparently some of you think i am a bad mother overall, but even when i apologize to one of the daughters she tells me i need to earn her respect...the very words that my husband says about my son..that he needs to earn his respect...i know i need to let go and let them grow up, but i shouldnt be forced into it. there seems to be a fine line between enabling and loving them and helping them until they can get on there feet and help themselves....and if i said my husband said something..he said it...this whole thing is not sugar coated or "glossed over" anymore...you have all the facts that i can think of, but im sure the will be plenty of comments now

TO "blended family" If you are listening/reading - we would love to help you and can do so better if you visit us at Delphi Advice Columns Fanatics. Search for us on Google - it is free to join and lots of the same people are there. We can chat longer and give you some concrete advice. We care and want to help.

My short response - this has gone so far that I think family counselling would help you all to get things back on an even keel.

Best wishes in any case!

Blended Family, it does seem to me as if the "legal difficulties" are pretty minor, all things considered. It seems a very weak justification for your husband to be so severe in shutting out the son.

Additionally, since you say the property you live in is equally yours, it seems you really should be standing up -- for yourself, if not for your son. Your husband should be treating you as an equal partner in all decisions, not making demands and ultimatums. He seems to be unreasonable here -- and I don't know if there is a deeper reason for this anger beyond what you've already suggested, or if he's simply making a mountain out of a molehill.

You also seem a rather timid person to me, at least in writing. I don't know if this is just your personality, or if your husband has "worn you down" over the years. But spouses should be equal partners and it really doesn't sound as if your husband is honoring this part of the marriage contract.

I strongly recommend you see a counselor, on your own first, so you can (quickly) work through what it is you want out of this, and what you are willing to risk. And then talk to your husband based on the decisions the counselor helps you to make.

(For myself, I would lean towards finding the strength and courage to tell your husband that you aren't happy with the decisions he's making unilaterally, and that you deserve more say in these decisions -- and that you want you and your husband to enter into some marriage counseling because you feel strongly that this is a serious problem in your marriage).

It really seems needlessly cruel not to let this young son at least shower and sleep until he gets a job, especially if he is indeed actively looking. A compromise could be that as long as he is honestly, sincerely looking for work, he can have a place to stay (especially if the sibling renting a floor will go back to allowing it).

But nothing -- and I mean this sincerely -- nothing will change unless you decide it needs to change and are willing to take steps to make that change. And there are risks with this -- your husband may direct his anger at you or even decide to end the marriage.

But in such case... is it worth it to stay married to a man who thinks so little of you? Only you know the answers to these questions. You know the good and the bad in your marriage, you know how it balances out. It may be that all the other good things about this man and your marriage are worth it; or it may be that his unilateral decision making without considering your feelings is too disrespectful to put up with.

This is why I think you should see a counselor individually, and then as a couple; because the issues you are grappling with really do seem to strike at the heart of what a husband and wife should be able to make decisions about together, cooperatively -- and yet you and your husband seem incapable of doing that right now where your son is concerned.

@blended family -- thanks for providing some additional details, as that really helps! I agree wholeheartedly that, at the very least, individual counseling is called for here -- but if you can get the other members of the family to agree to it, I would also suggest family counseling, not just couple's counseling. It sounds like there are a LOT of issues here that extend well beyond your relationship with your husband. For example, if I'm reading your comment correctly, there was some sort of sexual relationship between one of your sons and one of his daughters (and BTW -- I did notice that you refer to them as YOUR daughters, and kudos to you for approaching it that way, I'm using "your sons" and "his daughters" merely to point out that I realize such a relationship wouldn't really be considered incest, as they don't share blood), and apparently your husband wasn't happy with that and blames your son but not his daughter. My point is: there's just way too much going on here that has been going on for YEARS it would seem, and neither the Annies nor any of us BTL are going to be able to offer you the help you and your entire family so desperately need. It's time to bring in a professional. In fact, the time to bring in a professional was actually a LONG time ago. But it's not too late to give it a try. It's just going to be harder -- none of these kids are minors anymore, so you can't force them to participate, nor can you force your husband to participate, and as it's generally been unaddressed (or, more accurately, not well addressed) for years, it's going to take a whole lot more time, energy and expertise to resolve any of this than can be done in an online forum like this.

But I am truly sorry if your takeaway from all of this is that you're a bad mother and step-mother. A truly bad mother and step-mother wouldn't care about any of this and wouldn't be trying to figure out how to resolve it. But I am sorrier still that you let it get to this point without taking the necessary steps to repair and improve these relationships.

Re: blended family
Well, "making wax" (whatever that entails) sure is a lot milder tha peddling drugs out of the family home, but if there are safety issues (I assume fire-related), you have to realise that if he burns down the house doing something that he doesn't have a license for, insurance won't pay. So your husband would be justified in being pretty freaked out about that, especially since he is probably concerned about him being too high on medical marojuana to be able to be careful enough.

You've gotten good advice here, expecially from Mike H , and especially regarding getting counselling on your own. You sound so meek and timid, almost beaten down yes, that your original letter came across as making excuses and minimising right across the board. Which is unfortunately rather a common happenstance with enabling mothers - which is what you sounded like. I realise you're doing your best, but you really need to learn to assert yourself more.

About post #77, you have to realise that we've had some trolls impersonating posters here in the past, so two people pretending to be the same person (#71 to 75) don't exactly come across as believable. Who is Nancy Andrews?

And also... "there was a physical relationship..on both willing sides, but my husband definitely blames the maie."
What is this about ? Precisions, please.

I have to say that I've never heard of wax making as in an illegal sense so I'd like to know more about that too. Also, you wrote "But, Annie, I feel as if he has never really cared for them" in your original letter and that concerns me enough to warrant counseling in itself. Mike and Lisa gave you good advice so hopefully you will go on Delphi (as Miss Pasko pointed out) and communicate more.

TO BLENDED FAMILY:

I would think twice about taking advice from Lise Brouillette.

She's on welfare, divorced and has had several troubled relationships. Think about that. Let it sink in.

Just like you wouldn't talk to a career criminal to learn about the law, you probably shouldn't take her advice when it comes to family troubles.

Mike...i do stand up to him only to get those words "you love them more than me" and as i have said before there are diffenent kinds of love for children versus husbands. i think it really is a lost cause, but i love my husband...he isnt only pushing me away with his controlling but others too. He asys the only way i am happy is if he keeps his mouth shut and doesnt put the boys down...but the minute he bad mouths them or complains about me washing clothes for him since he wont allow him in the house, then i get upset...damn right i get upset...i feel like i need to defend them...especially when they say "mom arent you going to say something" and all i can do is freeze and cry and beg him to stop...i try to reason with him, but it justs get him too upset. i dont know...and my son downstairs would love to have him stay, but when he ask my husband he says no, which in my opinion if they pay for that part of the house they should be able to have whoever they want over...i have said many times that we should get a divorce because what we have isnt really a bonding family but i love him and i love my kids...

i posted on delphi but i dont know if i did it right

Re: blended family--Did you post or just register? Put something under one of the "welcome new members" threads to let us know you're there.

I registered and posted and miss pasko assisted me and reposted items for me as well but still no advice or comments..not like on here..and since I have added new info I have hardly gotten responses unlike before