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Be Well
This will be my last column as Dear Margo. I have been giving advice for 15 years — first as Dear Prudence and then under my own name. I have been writing for newspapers for 45 years. The time feels right to retire from deadline journalism. I …Read more.
When Things Don't Look Quite Right
Dear Margo: I'm 60, and my boyfriend is a few years younger. He recently moved in with me. His job requires him to meet with people after their workday. I know he really is doing this on some nights, because I have seen people enter his workplace. …Read more.
Play It as It Lays
Dear Margo: My boyfriend (of more than three and a half years) and I are at a crossroads in our lives. We're both in a master's program, and up until now we've been very serious and committed to our relationship. However, last week he brought up …Read more.
Unwarranted Guilt
Dear Margo: I am married with two almost-teenagers. We aren't rich, but we're comfortable. I have a cousin who has two children. One is near my children's age. This one has spent summers with us for years, and we have taken him on almost every …Read more.
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Gifts That Are Never Quite Right
Dear Margo: I have a good friend who, whenever there's an occasion for a gift (my birthday, Christmas, etc), buys something that either doesn't fit or is not to my taste. Ordinarily this would not be a problem, but she always buys these gifts on sale — so there is no returning them for either the right size or credit.
I know they say it's the thought that counts, but this is starting to annoy me. I know you can't tell a friend, "Look, none of your gifts work out, and it would be nice if you'd stop buying everything on sale." I should add that there's no attempt to disguise these presents, because she either tells me there was a sale on at (fill in the name of store) or the present has no tags — and sometimes no wrapping.
Is there a subtle way to make it known that I would appreciate a gift certificate or at least something that could be exchanged so I can use it? I would rather die than seem ungrateful. — Louisa
Dear Lou: You are quite right that you can't tell a friend (or anyone) that their habit of buying presents on sale is always a big fail. This person is obviously, let us say, a value shopper, and you can't change that. As close as you could get, without making a mess, would be to say she is so great about remembering occasions that it might make her life simpler if she just got you a gift certificate. The problem with this, though, and especially for a value shopper, is that the price would be right there, front and center.
Since you can't change her habits, I suggest you work on taking the edge off of your annoyance by accepting that this is who your friend is. You cannot change her instinct to be thrifty (well, OK, cheap), so go back to understanding that "it's the thought that counts," and just accept that only a random act of the cosmos might make a gift from her either fit or be to your liking. — Margo, understandingly
When Children Should Be Neither Seen Nor Heard
Dear Margo: My son is getting married soon. The invitations have been mailed, and RSVPs are coming in. My son and his fiancee are on a tight budget for their reception. The wedding invitations have on the INSIDE envelope the names of the people who are actually invited to attend the wedding and reception. No children, regardless of age, have been invited.
Every day, my son calls to tell me that people have added their children's names on the RSVP card that has been mailed to them. My nephew posted a message on my Facebook page asking whether he needs to get a babysitter for his son (age 6) or will we provide a babysitter at the reception? I have told my son that when they get an RSVP with extra names on it, they need to call the person and tell them it's nothing personal but only two people per family — and no children — have been invited. Don't people hire babysitters anymore, or am I from Mars? — Susan
Dear Su: Good grief. You are entirely, indisputably correct about your interpretation of a wedding invitation. My own thinking is that unless a wedding is an informal one, perhaps in the backyard, children shouldn't be present unless the bridal couple wants them.
The respondents who have added the names of their children need to be set straight. If you want to relieve your son and his intended of the onerous job of informing the clods that the affair is adults only, you could offer to be in touch with the people who don't know any better and tell them there will be no babysitters because there will be no children. Reiterate that the wedding and reception are only for couples (or plus-ones, if they are single), and if it's impossible to get a sitter, they will be sorely missed. — Margo, huffily
Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via the online form at www.creators.com/dearmargo. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.
COPYRIGHT 2013 MARGO HOWARD
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM 
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Comments
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23 Comments | Post Comment
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LW1 - I don't know why you think that things bought on sale can't be returned. I haven't seen that policy in years. However, what you can tell your friend is that rather than accumulating more stuff, you would like to celebrate each other's events by doing something together, like treating each other to lunch or dinner. You can have a nice time together & not end up with more stuff, plus the shopping chores disappear.
LW2 - the hosts of the wedding, be they your son, his fiancee', hie parents, you, whoever, should notify the people who add names to their rsvp card that those additional people are not invited. Tell your son to stop calling you & start calling the people who rsvp'd. The venue of the wedding - backyard, hotel, wedding hall - has nothing to do with it. If someone, adult or child, is not invited, he or she should not attend.
Comment: #1
Posted by: kai archie
Thu Apr 4, 2013 9:59 PM
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kai archie -- stuff bought on clearance often can't be returned. But not always.
I like your suggestion to LW1 about spending time together. LW just needs to be prepared for friend to take her only to spots where she has a coupon offer, or to nosebleed seats for the play. :)
Scaling back her expectations is my suggestions --and I mean WAY back. If she can get herself psyched to see "How bad is it gonna be this time?" she may be able to make this into a fun game she plays with herself. Saying anything at all to friend is going to offend her, and may end the friendship.
LW2: Margo, you never bring kids ANYWHERE their names (or "Family") isn't on the invitation, even to a casual backyard wedding.
Comment: #2
Posted by: hedgehog
Fri Apr 5, 2013 5:04 AM
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I disagree with Margo that this person is necessarily a value shopper or "just who she is". Sometimes, consistently buying the wrong gift can be a sign of jealousy or a form of passive aggression. The easy way to figure it out: does she buy gifts like this for everybody, or just you? If it's just you, then value-hunting has nothing to do with it.
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I have a sister-in-law who would buy gifts for me that were size extra-large--even when I was a size small (I'm medium now). For decades. No matter how often she was reminded of my size, she would claim, "Oh, I thought you were size extra-large." Once, when I was a size 4, she bought me a size 16 pair of pants. She would also buy me things in the most unflattering colors and styles. Another time she asked me what my least favorite color was, and I said gray, because it makes me look dead. For Christmas, you can guess what color my sweater was. And the clothing was always bought on clearance or in another town, so it couldn't be returned. She never did this to anyone else in the family. And the funny thing was, she was always much larger than me, around a size 12 to 16.
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Kai archie's idea is a great one, though. Suggest to ditch the gift-giving tradition, and start a new one where you take each other out for a nice lunch instead. And Birthday Girl gets to choose the restaurant. Problem solved.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Jane
Fri Apr 5, 2013 5:19 AM
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LW1: Since when can you not return things bought on sale? Sometimes, a final clearance cannot be returned, but in the US, most stores allow returns. (Are you writing from out of country - just curious). However, if there are no tags on the gifts, then it's obviously regifted. Since these are gifts, just take them. You can donate them, or do whatever you want. Just say thanks. If you say you don't like them, you will hurt her feelings and risk the friendship over....a gesture of goodwill on her part?
LW2: Yes, just send a mass email, or inform people on the phone that children aren't allowed. Normally, I've seen specified on the invitation that "Wedding is for adults only" so it makes things very clear. Otherwise, yes, some people are so attached to their children that they will bring them. Trust me, even after telling people that it's no kids, some will STILL bring them. Choose how to deal with it - you can't turn them away at the door, or can you?
Comment: #4
Posted by: Salty
Fri Apr 5, 2013 5:22 AM
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LW1 Only allow a certain price limit on gifts or set a theme such as iris bulbs, Christmas ornaments, paperback books, or photos. Time together at an event or meal is good too.
Comment: #5
Posted by: ewood
Fri Apr 5, 2013 5:38 AM
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Perhaps your friend can't afford to spend more on gifts. A LOT of people are on very tight budgets. I have solved mine by simply not buying gifts for people over theage of 18, at all.
You can either suggest the 2 of you do lunch instead of giftds To Each Other, or you can accept the gift and donate it to charity. You can't tell your friend she is cheap, or what to buy you. Grow up.
Comment: #6
Posted by: farrar sanchez
Fri Apr 5, 2013 5:53 AM
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Argh! My wedding was 17 years ago, and these RSVP issues still give me flashbacks! Are we humans destined to be rude and clueless until the end of time when it comes to these things? I'm beginning to think so!
Maybe this should be part of a pre-marital prep class -- learning how to deal efficiently, assertively, and calmly with these offenders. It would be a great life skill, and reduce so much unecessary stress.
Comment: #7
Posted by: deb
Fri Apr 5, 2013 7:51 AM
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Sorry, I have to make this tongue-in-cheek suggestion... perhaps LW1 should re-gift her friend whatever she is given. That might give her the hint.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Paul W
Fri Apr 5, 2013 7:53 AM
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LW#1 If you know someone the gift is right for, pass it on. Otherwise, donate, garage sale, eBay, the Dirty Santa game at work, etc
Jane#3 Re-gift them to your SIL, Since it was way too big, (too unflattering, etc) for me, I thought it might fit you. One item off your gift list and a little call-out all rolled into one.
Comment: #9
Posted by: nonegiven
Fri Apr 5, 2013 8:01 AM
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@Jane -- I had to laugh when I read your post. A friend of mine is like me -- she's an Iron Man triathlete, very fit and petite -- she wears size 0. Her "fat" clothes are a size 2. I always joke that she makes me (at size 4) feel like a fat slob. She has an SIL who is probably a size 14 or 16. They have very little in common, and SIL has always been jealous of how slender my friend is. Whenever SIL bought clothes for her, they were always way too big. If it was just the gifts, my friend would have left it alone, but there were always these snide comments about how some of us are just too busy to work out, or how selfish it is to train for an endurance event when that training takes time away from your family, etc. Of course, these comments were totally unfair -- and ironic, under the circumstances, since my friend works full time and volunteers with a charitable organization, while her SIL doesn't work (and her children are in their teens, and she has a cleaning service and rarely cooks). Anyhow, a year or two ago, the SIL gave my friend a pair of pants that were a size 14. That's not a giant size by any stretch, but for my size 0 friend, they may as well have been a two-legged tent. My friend finally "snapped." She ooh'd and aah'd over the color and fabric, said how gorgeous they were and then said they were just so beautiful that she had to put them on right then and there. Which she did, right over top of what she was wearing. First she tried putting them on such that each leg was in a separate opening, the way you would normally wear pants. She made a great show of buttoning the buttons and zipping the zipper, let go of the pants, and of course, they fell right to the floor. "Hmmm..." she said, "maybe I'm just not wearing them right." She then proceeded to put both of her legs (basically, her entire body) into one leg of the pants. This time, of course, it was a little too tight (but with an entire leg of the pants flying around). She smiled at her SIL and said, "gee, I guess I'll have to take them back and get the next size up." As I understand it, most of the family was in hysterics during this little charade, except for the SIL, who was angry and embarrassed, of course. But since then, she has bought my friend gift cards.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Lisa
Fri Apr 5, 2013 8:23 AM
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Re: Paul W Wish there was a "thumbs up" button for your response.
Comment: #11
Posted by: j
Fri Apr 5, 2013 8:48 AM
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LW1 -
There are some people who like to appear generous, but whatever they give is for their own sake and purposes and they don't care about "really" giving, since the enjoyment of the item is not in their list of criteria. This may be what's happening here.
Perhaps it's not okay for you to say anything, but I see nothing wrong with a third party stepping in. Enlist the help of a common friend.
Since the person is such a "thrifty" value shopper, the friend might want to insist on the fact that it is no saving if the item purchased is not used. It is true that a gift certificate might be awkward, since the price tag IS the gift. The friend may want to argue that you would prefer some home-cooked meal, or nothing at all... since in practice, this is pretty much what you've been getting anyway.
If nothing works, just say thank you and donate the item to the nearest thrift shop.
LW2 -
People with children sure know where to get a sitter when they want a night out, and people with children expecting others to pay for their sitter are grossly entitled, as your nephew was. And people who just add names (whoever's) to an invitation are incredibly rude - AND entitled.
Your son and his bride have enough to worry about without having to deal with such mannerless clods. Take on the task of calling them yourself when such a RSVP is returned and explain that no, they can't add names at will and tailor an invite to suit their preferences. The happy couple can't just remove two other people from the list, just because Mrs and Mr Entitled are joined at the hip with their brats.
So if they "can't" or won't get a sitter, or put the kids up with a relative or a friend for a few days (in the case of travelling guests), then tell them, sorry, they'll be missed.
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@kai archie #1
When the item has been discounted several times, at one point comes the time for the "final clearance sale", and often the items are not returnable at this point - the store has seen enough of them, and it's take it away, please ;-D. Perhaps the friend is a chaser of such sales. Because the discount can be 90%, the item is worth a lot more than she paid for it and therefore she looks a lot more generous than she really is.
@Jane #3
"She never did this to anyone else in the family. And the funny thing was, she was always much larger than me, around a size 12 to 16."
Well, there you go. She was buying you sizes she WISHED were yours. She was green with envy and hated your guts for being slim. After the grey sweater incident, I would have turned the joke on her and bought her a book about people who like to waste their money. But nonegiven's idea is even better - since the items are HER size after all!
@Salty #4
"You can't turn them away at the door, or can you?"
Nobody wants to have to do that, but they should. Otherwise, mannerless, selfish clods who don't care about anything except their precious selves WILL show up with them even when told not to, thinking, "Well, they can't turn me back at the door, can they?" Yes they can, and this should be made clear.
@Paul W #8
LOL! Tongue-in-cheek or not.
Comment: #12
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Apr 5, 2013 8:55 AM
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On one hand, I completely agree with LW2's objection. (Although, we did not invite kids to our wedding, but for a few international guests who couldn't make it without their very new babies, we made exceptions when asked politely.) That said, this statement gives me pause: "Every day, my son calls to tell me that people have added their children's names on the RSVP card that has been mailed to them." Everyday? That screams "blowing things out of proportion." It probably happened twice. Yes, LW2, you have a good point. But get over yourself.
Comment: #13
Posted by: myname
Fri Apr 5, 2013 9:23 AM
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A quick phone call to the RSVP'ers who have included their children's names to explain in a non-confrontational manner that, 'Sorry if they misunderstood but children will not be attending the wedding or reception and does this change their plans? Make sure they give you a more current RSVP on the phone so the your kids can make more final plans.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Penny
Fri Apr 5, 2013 10:26 AM
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LW1--You need to stop being subtle. Tell your friend that you've decided going forward that due to the downed economy and in light of so many people in need that you are no longer exchanging gifts and that you do not want her to purchase any more gifts for you. Insist that if she insists on marking a special occasion, you would prefer she make a donation to a good cause. If your friend continues to buy you gifts regardless, then thank her but don't be tempted to reciprocate and then donate the unwanted items to charity. If she should inquire as to why you're not wearing the mu-mu that she got you, tell her flatly that you donated it to charity as you will continue to do. Maybe she'll eventually get a clue.
LW2--In this day and age of child worship it's tantamount to blasphemy to issue an invitation and not include the precious children. Personally, many children are raucous and ill-behaved and cannot be counted upon to sit still during a wedding or reception. Instead of beating around the bush by printing only the names of those invited, your son should have simply stated plainly in the invitations that the couple prefers no children at the event. Now that the invites are out, I would suggest that your son hire a babysitter and instruct families as they arrive that children will be segregated. If guests throw a hissy fit then they are free to leave. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense should know better than to arbitrarily add extra guests to a wedding where there is limited food and also the possibility of alcohol being served.
Comment: #15
Posted by: Chris
Fri Apr 5, 2013 1:12 PM
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Count me as another reader who is skeptical of LW1's friend's bargain hunting acumen. I think it's time to consider other possibilities: 1) she's regifting, in which case, just thank her and sell/discard/donate the item; 2) she's buying used at garage sales, etc., in which case my previous advice applies;. A third possibility is that she's shoplifting, in which case LW may be unwittingly tied into bigger problems. If the items are always obviously new and much more expensive than even bargain hunting would explain, she should be wary.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Carla
Fri Apr 5, 2013 2:04 PM
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@Chris, I love kids, but I still remember a day where wedding-related hoopla kept me busy all day. When we finally got to the reception, I was terribly hungry. Finally, I was able to detach and get to the buffet. I sat down with my plate, and it was sneezed on by the sick toddler who had crawled onto the table unchecked by his parents. When I went back to the buffet, they'd pulled everything and were setting out dessert, and I had to slip out and get carryout.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Carla
Fri Apr 5, 2013 2:08 PM
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When I got married, we were paying for the entire wedding, and were on a strict budget, so we decided- no kids. Then the phone calls started, relatives couldn't believe we didn't want their kids there. So we patiently explained, no, no one is bringing kids. Then they wanted to know if we wanted flower girls and ring bearers, so they could bring their kids that way. No, we explained, but thank you. Then, an invitation was sent to an aunt and uncle. They couldn't come, so they passed the invitation to another family, who replied that they were bringing their six kids. I had my soon to be MIL handle that one, since hubby and I didn't even know them. Finally, my brother in law brought his daughter to the wedding and reception, with her cousin to keep her company! And of course, many people demanded an explanation from my hubby and me. And my cousins both brought uninvited dates, but figured it was okay, because their grandma gave us a large cash gift. I didn't let it bother me, obviously, both sides of our family never read Emily Post. And BTW, when many of these people started throwing their own parties (none had had wedding receptions) guess what they specified- NO kids! So, yes, I believe all of the crazy letters that people write, people are that goofy.
Comment: #18
Posted by: Patty Bear
Fri Apr 5, 2013 2:30 PM
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Returning discounted merchandise... it's also possible that she buys stuff way in advance (and perhaps not with a specific person in mind, given that nothing is ever the right size, etc.), so that by the time she gives the stuff to the LW, it cannot be returned. One national retailer that I know of doesn't take stuff back after 90 days. A lot of "bargain hunter" buyers buy stuff not at the moment they need a gift, but at the moment they happen to see something that they think is a good deal. If that "moment" happens six months before Christmas or the person's birthday, etc., then it's very possible that even if the tags are still on and it was a totally legitimate purchase, it cannot be returned.
Regardless -- LW1 definitely should not request gift cards/gift certificates. I like several of the ideas offered -- "let's stop exchanging gifts and just get together for lunch [or other appropriate activity]," being one of my favorites. Otherwise, she just needs to suck it up and donate the stuff and move on.
Comment: #19
Posted by: Lisa
Fri Apr 5, 2013 2:41 PM
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"Reiterate that the wedding and reception are only for couples (or plus-ones, if they are single) . . . "
So couples on a budget are fine not to invite children, but they have to allow single adults to bring friends with them? You know, strangers the bride and groom don't even know?
Sorry, but I don't feel the bride and groom are anymore obligated to invite adult strangers to the wedding than they are children they might actually know. And I say this as someone who has attended many weddings while single by myself.
Comment: #20
Posted by: jjmg
Fri Apr 5, 2013 3:04 PM
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Just wanted to present another side to the "no kids at weddings" issue. A friend of my husbands' invited us sans kids to an out of state wedding when our first-born was only about 6 weeks old. She was extremely colicky so traveling with her would have been hard, and traveling out of state for the wedding would have been costly, but we were willing to go that far. However, since we couldn't bring our child and really couldn't realistically leave her (she was breastfeeding, and didn't really know how to take a bottle - not to mention that she was just a really tough baby). So we explained and politely declined the invitation. The friend was really annoyed and said we should just get a sitter at the hotel. As someone who did not yet have children, or who had never had a breastfeeding, high-needs infant, he just did NOT get why we didn't want to spend tons of money to put ourselves in a stressful and difficult situation with our new baby.
Fast forward to baby #2. My cousin was getting married and asked if my older child would be a flower girl (another out of town wedding, but at least drivable this time). We were very flattered and said of course, and made arrangements to buy the dress, instruct our daughter on how to behave, etc. Then right before the wedding they let us know it would be a child-free reception. We were invited to spend the money and effort to have our daughter be cute for pictures, etc. but they didn't want to feed her more or less. We explained, nicely, that we were sorry to miss the wedding but we could not leave our new baby yet (not to mention the flower girl was old enough to wonder why she wouldn't get to eat wedding cake). I apologized that we would have to miss it and wished them well. I think that the other flower girls and the ring-bearer's parents basically had the same reaction so in the end the bridal couple changed their minds and invited the children from the wedding party to attend the reception also.
Not all parents of young children are hopelessly rude. Sometimes it is just not feasible to "get a sitter." It sounds so easy when it is someone else's baby and not your own of course.
I have never, ever assumed that I could invite my kids along. And yes I have gotten a baby sitter to go to a wedding when it was workable (as in, I didn't need to hire a stranger, leave my very young child overnight, or be separated from a breastfeeding infant.) However, in my experience it still ruffles feathers if you decline an invitation you can't accept, so there is no winning.
I would also never let my child be disruptive at a wedding. We always, always sit on the end of the aisle so if someone is loud, wiggly, or whatever one parent gets up and leaves with them right away.
(FWIW - my own wedding was outside at a park. Kids were more than welcome - I like kids.)
Comment: #21
Posted by: Jorie
Fri Apr 5, 2013 6:00 PM
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Re: Patty Bear #18
"They couldn't come, so they passed the invitation to another family"
WHAAAAAT? Good flamin' grief, man, since when is a wedding invitation some kind of discount coupon you pass on when you can't use it? What's that, a ticket to the ball game, here, I can't go, don't let it go to waste? Every time I think I've heard it all, something like this happens to disabuse me of that notion!
@jjmg #20
"So couples on a budget are fine not to invite children, but they have to allow single adults to bring friends with them? "
Nobody HAS to, although it is customary to allow singles to bring a date. If the budget is really tight, yes, the date might be a casualty, but it's iffy. Where do you draw the line? Married couples only? Married couples and those living maritally? The ones who have been seein each other for 3-4 years might have a problem with being discriminated against compared to the ones living together for six months. Ok, with a SO, but only relationships one year old and plus? It may be a little difficult to specify 'serious SOs only, no casual dates'. That's why the custom will exclude children (and not only because of budget reasons), but not dates.
@Jorie #21
"Then right before the wedding they let us know it would be a child-free reception. We were invited to spend the money and effort to have our daughter be cute for pictures, etc. but they didn't want to feed her more or less. "
Now, that is TACKY. I seem to remember reading that child-free edicts did not apply to the wedding party. Every time I think I've seen it all (put the record back on)... ;-D
"Sometimes it is just not feasible to get a sitter."
Of course not. But in that case, people with manners (people like you) decline politely instead of writing in the name of their children on the RSVP. I can't think of word to describe how rude I think this is. No, not all parents of young children are hopelessly rude, and evidently, not all childless people are polite and considerate either. The LW is describing incredibly rude and self-centred parents, you are describing incredibly rude and self-centred childless wedding planners.
I was going to say it takes all kinds to make a world, but it seems to me there are some kinds we could do without!
Comment: #22
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Apr 5, 2013 8:10 PM
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Re LW1: I'm not sure when it became okay to whine about gifts not being good enough? Gifts are, by definition, something given through the generosity of the giver without obligation. You are not entitled to receive only the gifts that you would want. You have a friend who cares enough to give you gifts, so accept them with gratitude and without complaint (even anonymously to an advice columnist). If it doesn't fit, don't whine--donate.
Comment: #23
Posted by: Bear
Sun Apr 7, 2013 1:49 AM
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