Dear Margo® by Margo Howard

LW2 - Totally agree with Margo on this. Change the type of places where you eat out. Unfortunately, this behavior is pretty much a given at family oriented restaurants. By the way, the parents are well aware that their children are not "restaurant-ready". However, at the expense of the other diners, they just don't care.

LW2 - Totally agree with Margo on this. Change the type of places where you eat out. Unfortunately, this behavior is pretty much a given at family oriented restaurants. By the way, the parents are well aware that their children are not "restaurant-ready". However, at the expense of the other diners, they just don't care.

LW1--"Is there something I could do so I don't feel like I'm the one putting all of the effort into the relationship?" Like what, put a gun to your friend's head and force her to call you once a week? Sorry hon, but much like a jug of whole milk, friendships too have an expiration date. It seems like you and your former college buddy have gone from BFF to BF when time permits. As Margo points out, you two have completely different lives. Times and people change. Your friend doesn't feel the need to pick up the phone to call you and apparently doesn't have the time or energy to listen to your issues when she does have a few minutes free from her husband and new baby to take one of your calls. What more do you need to know? It looks like you should start making new friends.

LW2--What Margo said, exactly!

LW1 -
If the relationship has become one-sided, then YOU are still a close friend to her, but it is no longer the other way around.

It may be that she is very unhappy with her present life, and can perceive little else. It may be that she is no longer the person you used to know, and the change was not for the better. And then, there is the fact that you two now have very different lives.These things happen - people change, circumstances change, and people grow apart.

You may want to ask her gently if there is anything in her life presently putting her under a lot of stress. When she asks why you're asking, you may tell her that she seems to have lost any interest in learning how YOU are doing, and that you occasionally need to vent to her too, as you used to be able to. You can play it by ear from there.

But most relationships have a shelf life. It may be that your friendship with this woman has gone past the "best before" date. It that be the case, then I suggest you find yourself a little more busy when she is the one calling. Perhaps when you become less available, she will take you less for granted. If not and you can see that she doesn't miss you, well, then you should leave this to die a natural death and pursie friendships with people who value you more.

LW2 -
You don't mention what kind of restaurant you're talking about here... You have to be aware that fast food joints will be brat havens.

I really do feel for you but, unfortunately, I have bad news for you: parents of unruly children are often unruly themselves - that's why their children are brats, because you can't teach what you don't know. Not to mention that they don't give a hoot or a holler about you, your discomfort is not their problem and they only care about what they want.

Apart from the fact that this would be the responsibility of the restaurant manager (in a real restaurant), they are not likely to want to do much if the entire menu is geared towards families because, as obnoxious as they may be, these troglodytes are their bread and butter, warts and all. And I don't suggest you approach the parents, simply because people with no manners and no consideration for anyone may react more violently than you anticipate. With the number of entitled people who see nothing wrong with letting it all hang out these days, and who find shows like Jerry Springer immensely funny, you could be putting yourself in danger.

Choose restaurants that are upscale enough not to be kid-friendly. They'll be more expensive, but hey - you can't have your cake and eat it too, even in a restaurant. ;-D

P.S.: Honestly now, how DO you think parents will react if you "approach" them? "Oh, I'm SOO-O-O-O sorry that it inconveniences you when little Johnny is shrieking louder than a police siren, or climbs on your lap to then eats off your plate with his grubby hands, let me do something about this urgent matter right-this-minute! GANG! C'mere, listen to me now, I'm gonna start teaching you manners, because the nice lady here doesn't like it!"

If this is the kind of reaction you're truly expecting, I suggest you cut down a bit on restaurant bills and invest on a competent shrink.

Just how exactly, is a parent to teach their children how to be "restaurant ready", if they don't ever actually take them to one? Parents can't keep them locked up at home until they "learn manners" or turn 18. You have to put the children into the situation in order to teach them. That is just how we humans are. That being said, no child should be running around in a restaurant. Perhaps if interfering busybodies weren't so busy approaching total strangers about their parenting techniques, then more people would be willing to discipline in public. I can tell you, as a parent of three great kids, there is always a stranger who thinks they know more about my kids than I do.

LW1: You could try...I dunno...TALKING to her! Rather that right the friendship off--talk to her. Tell her how you feel. Odds are, she has no clue what she's doing and will realize she's being a self-involved idiot. Then the relationship has a chance of getting back on track. If it's a good friendship, it's worth trying rather than writing her off.

LW2: Talk to the manager--not the parents. I used to wait tables and it's not just irritating, it's dangerous! All it takes is a running child and a server with a cup of hot coffee to make an annoying night one that ends up in the hospital.

FWIW, I come from a family of five kids with only 6.5 years between is. We were always restaurant ready as my parents took us out and taught us manners. There was no standing in the sets, crawling under the table, etc. No one ever said "boo" as there was no need. If the kids are out of control--it's the parents fault.Yes--kids should go to restaurants but they should know how to behave.

Re: LW2- That's one of my biggest annoyances when eating out. I used to wait on tables and this was a problem many years ago but it does seem worse than ever. I simply ask to be seated somewhere else as soon as I spot kids that look like they are misbehaving. Of course, you can't escape them in some restaurants. I think it is lazy parenting as often times the kid is screaming or running amuck while the parents ignore the problems all-together.

LW2: I sympathize with anyone whose children are so tense or tired or bored or whatever that they act out in public. It's hard on the family and onlookers. So I'm not trying to tell anyone how to raise their offspring - this is just an observation and maybe some insight. A gal I know who has five kids met me with them at an Olive Garden restaurant. We sat in the middle of the room at a big round table. Her kids were so relaxed and cheerful that more than one other patron approached and told her what fine, or well-behaved, etc. children she had. There were noisier kids at other tables. When we discussed it later, she surmised that (1) dinner is a calm time in her home; and (2) her children -- all members of sports teams and/or gymnastics or dance classes -- get lots of activity during the day.

LW2: I sympathize with anyone whose children are so tense or tired or bored or whatever that they act out in public. It's hard on the family and onlookers. So I'm not trying to tell anyone how to raise their offspring - this is just an observation and maybe some insight. A gal I know who has five kids met me with them at an Olive Garden restaurant. We sat in the middle of the room at a big round table. Her kids were so relaxed and cheerful that more than one other patron approached and told her what fine, or well-behaved, etc. children she had. There were noisier kids at other tables. When we discussed it later, she surmised that (1) dinner is a calm time in her home; and (2) her children -- all members of sports teams and/or gymnastics or dance classes -- get lots of activity during the day.

LW1 -- As someone with a 21 month old who is also 34 weeks pregnant, let me let you in on a little secret: your friend likely is just so grateful to have a few moments to have an adult conversation that she is trying to get every little thing off her chest as fast as she can, and no sooner does she get through 20 minutes of that, when the baby wakes from his nap, needs to be fed, needs to be changed, etc. This doesn't necessarily mean she has "has morphed into a narcissistic housewife for whom her former best friend has become a wailing wall." That is, of course, possible, but unlike Margo who, I gather, hasn't had an infant in many, many years, I recognize that what's going on here might just be temporary, and it's a question of to what degree you are open to giving this friendship a bit of a "hiatus' but being willing to resume it when your friend has got her "sea legs."

So, here are your choices.

1) Stop calling, and accept that this relationship has run its course -- as that is one likely possibility.

2) Stop calling, but keep an open mind and an open heart should she eventually call you looking to resume the friendship. She may, as Margo and others have suggested, just always have been self-absorbed and you just didn't notice it. But it's also possible that, like a lot of new moms, she's just still so overwhelmed that she hasn't learned how to balance and juggle everything.

3) Tell her how you feel, either over the phone, in person or in a letter/e-mail. Tell her you love her and miss her, but you feel like she's just too overwhelmed with her new life to have time for you right now.

I'm a big believer in the idea that certain friendships, regardless of how intense and important they were for a time, really are something "of the moment" and that when the moment passes, so, too, does the friendship. I've seen the same thing happen when I have become extremely close with someone I worked with, and then when one of us changes jobs, the friendship still exists, but in a different format and, in some cases, eventually fades away. Being with someone EVERY DAY generates an intimacy/intensity that is hard to sustain once you aren't with that person every day, and especially if one of you is still at the same job and the other has moved on (or, in your case, one of you is still in one stage of life, while the other has moved onto a different stage of life). This doesn't have to mean that one of the friends is a self-absorbed jerk.

LW2 -- Funny thing here: I am the mother of a not-quite-2-year-old with another one on the way, and if anything, I am probably LESS sympathetic to parents of out-of-control kids. That's because when I go out without my child, I want a peaceful time out. That's why I go to the trouble and expense of hiring a babysitter. So, it's even MORE expensive for me to go out to dinner with my husband than it is for you and likely happens a whole lot less frequently. That's why I make a point of going to places that are NOT family friendly.

I love my son, but there's a reason I get a sitter to go out without him. The other day, I had a bunch of shopping and errands I wanted to do, and since at least one portion of the day was to go clothing shopping for me, which would mean trying on clothes, etc., rather than take my son with me, I hired the sitter so I could go alone. There I was, at the mall, trying to enjoy a little non-mommy time, but of course, it's the mall, so there are kids all over the place. Some well behaved, some not. It is physically painful for me to hear a baby wailing and crying, because it puts me right back in that moment with my son and reminds me of what potentially awaits when I get home! So, I feel your pain, I really do. And yet I'm still going to say: then stop going to restaurants where (and at times when) you are likely to run into children.

Yes, parents should teach their children manners. Yes, children shouldn't be running hog wild through ANY restaurant (not even a fast-food restaurant). And Congress should be able to do the right thing for this country instead of getting hung up on partisan bickering. And people shouldn't cut other people off on the highway. There are lots of "shoulds" out there that aren't going to happen. So, I have one "should" -- and one shouldn't -- that you have the power to ensure happens:

1) You should NOT approach those parents. It will do no good, no matter how kind you try to be about it.

2) You SHOULD choose different restaurants/times to make it less likely you will encounter kids.

Re: Michelle Davis
Well, for openers, there is a difference between McDo and Chez Pierre, McDo being the preferable choice as a starter restaurant for kids unused to the experience.

Second, I would have immensely more sympathy if I saw evidence of the parent(s) actually TEACHING manners to the kids, instead of letting them run amok like wild animals, as they're sitting pretty eating their meal, pretending nothing is happening while their brats are wreaking havoc.

Some of you clearly have never been around kids. A parent cannot always predict when a kid will be "unruly." Some kids are very well-behaved most of the time, but occasionally act out. Even in a restaurant. The only thing that would satisfy LW2 (whose kids, I'm sure, made a scene at a restaurant once in awhile) and a lot of you would be a kid-ban at restaurants. Get real.

Re: myname
You still don't get it. Most people will show some patience when the parents are actually looking after their children and doing what they can to control their antics, instead to just let it all hang out. The real complaint is when the kids behave like a pack of chimpanzees on a rampage, and the parents do absolutely nothing because they don't give a damn. If you expect people to find this acceptable, you're in for a disappointment. And yeah, I've been around kids plenty.

Sure, even the best-behaved kids will have bad days, but there are things parents can do to avoid that IF they are willing to actually parent.
First, as much as possible, eat meals as a family at home. Kids aren't going to magically learn social graces when everyone treats the kitchen like a take-out counter. Busy schedules sometimes make it impossible to do this all the time, but if it is important enough to you, you will make it happen more often than not (we did).
Start out with short visits to kid-friendly places, but have the same expectations you would have at a nicer restaurant. Go to McD's and SIT DOWN and eat an order of fries, and then go play in the ball pit or whatever. But teach the kids that we sit down and eat our meal, not run around and grab a handful of food as we pass the table.
Make sure everyone is well-rested and in a co-operative mood before leaving for the restaurant. A cranky kid who missed his nap and lunch is probably not going to be the best-behaved little diner.
If you've done all of that, and for some reason, the little darlin' is still being a hellion, remove him from the restaurant. Had to do that twice with my oldest before she was 3, and yeah, it sucked that we had to take our food in doggy bags and eat at home, but she learned, and every experience with her since then has been great. I would much rather have those two disappointing days than a hundred embarrassing episodes that might have come if she knew she could get away with being a brat.

@myname -- there is no question that even the best of children can have bad days or bad moments. As Shirley noted, there are things a parent can do to avoid that happening when they take children to a restaurant (or other public venue), and as Lise B noted, most people have some patience and sympathy when it's clear that the parents really ARE doing everything they can to resolve the problem. It's pretty rare that we take our son (currently 21 month old) to a restaurant, but when we do, my husband and I are prepared to take turns taking him outside if he acts up, for example. We don't just sit there and ignore him. Since he's still in a high chair at this point, there's no way for him to literally run around unless one of us is foolish enough to take him out of the high chair and let him go -- which we obviously wouldn't do.

One of the challenges is that, in general, the best way to deal with a toddler tantrum is to ignore it -- otherwise, you're basically reinforcing the notion that throwing a tantrum is a great way to get attention (even if it's technically negative attention, toddlers don't always see the difference between positive and negative attention). When we're at home, if our son melts down and we just ignore him, it's usually over in less than two minutes -- because the message we are consistently sending is that a tantrum doesn't get him what he wants. But when we're in public, if we take the "just ignore him" approach, other people around us don't know that:

1) It will actually be over a whole lot more quickly if we do nothing than if we try to address it in some fashion
2) If we address it in some fashion, he basically gets what he wants, and he learns that a tantrum is an effective way to get what he wants.

So, it can be a real challenge for the parents. But at the end of the day, parents need to be prepared to deal with their kids when they act out in public. Some do, some don't. And similarly, people without kids who wish to go places where kids might be present, need to be prepared to put up with at least a certain amount of shenanigans. There's a balance here somewhere, and it doesn't include a ban on children in public places.

LW1: Your friend is selfish. That's what you are finally realizing. Cut your losses. Try to get closer with some other friends. Sometimes after a baby, people get very self-absorbed. I've experienced my own friends doing it. I know it's them and not me because now that I have a kid, people tell me that they're glad I remained their friend. So cut your losses.

LW2: Margo said just what I was thinking. Try different restaurants. People aren't going to stop bringing their kids, and you can't really expect them to. If you're going to AppleBees or something, there will be loud kids there. Try some places that are a bit out of the way, or a more upscale place (you could go to more pricey places but less frequently to keep the costs the same). Even Olive Garden is quieter. Also, try going on a weeknight, or a Sunday night. Kids have to be in be early and parents don't often take them out on weeknights on Sunday nights.