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Be Well This will be my last column as Dear Margo. I have been giving advice for 15 years — first as Dear Prudence and then under my own name. I have been writing for newspapers for 45 years. The time feels right to retire from deadline journalism. I …Read more. When Things Don't Look Quite Right Dear Margo: I'm 60, and my boyfriend is a few years younger. He recently moved in with me. His job requires him to meet with people after their workday. I know he really is doing this on some nights, because I have seen people enter his workplace. …Read more. Play It as It Lays Dear Margo: My boyfriend (of more than three and a half years) and I are at a crossroads in our lives. We're both in a master's program, and up until now we've been very serious and committed to our relationship. However, last week he brought up …Read more. Unwarranted Guilt Dear Margo: I am married with two almost-teenagers. We aren't rich, but we're comfortable. I have a cousin who has two children. One is near my children's age. This one has spent summers with us for years, and we have taken him on almost every …Read more.
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As We Were Saying…

Comment

In response to the column where you told a woman whose husband has advanced Alzheimer's that she could have a romantic life with a widower, I ask you: What happened to honoring the wedding vows of "in sickness and in health, 'til death do us part"? I have not heard any vows that state "until I don't remember you or you don't remember me."

I'm sympathetic to this woman, as my dad died of Alzheimer's, and it was very draining and even potentially dangerous for my mom. But even when he needed to be in a care center, neither she nor his children abandoned him. He may not have known us, but we knew him and our commitment to him. Your response is essentially shallow and perpetuates laziness of character and the decay of altruistic values. As someone once wrote, "A good life happens to be a fair amount of work. It's not for the lazy." — C.F.

Dear C.: I am respectful of your stance and of the people who choose this path, but I am not changing my position. Some moral choices are not clear-cut. Just ask any ethicist. And you have made a false and erroneous assumption that I am sanctioning abandonment. I know more than one woman with an Alzheimer's-stricken mate who is in a romantic relationship but visits her husband every day — though he does not know who is visiting.

I would be in agreement with you for any disease other than Alzheimer's. I would think it shameful for a man or woman whose spouse had, say, ALS to "date." The wild card here is sentience. When the mind is totally gone, it is indeed a living death, and I have never seen the virtue of one person sacrificing his or her life as a gesture.

— Margo, rationally

Dear Margo: I am writing in regard to your advice to the woman who wondered whether she could date with a husband deep into Alzheimer's disease. How sad that this woman sees her husband as "no longer here." The last time I heard marriage vows, they were "till death do us part," not "till Alzheimer's, cancer, diabetes, stroke, etc. do us part." I think of my precious brother-in-law, who stood by my sister for seven years, treating her like a queen, while she battled breast cancer. Your advice, at best, is unfortunate. — P.D.

Dear P.: There is a serious flaw in your objection. Your sister had breast cancer. Her brain was working; her illness was malignant cells. You mention diabetes, stroke, etc., all of which leave the mind intact. Most diseases are very different in affect from Alzheimer's or a vegetative state. One could recover from the illnesses you mention — or not. A person with Alzheimer's, however, who does not recognize anyone, is essentially no longer here — no quotation marks required. A person with any other illness, I believe, is owed fidelity. — Margo, unwaveringly

And This Was Too Good Not To Share

Regarding the letter from the woman whose in-laws obnoxiously force others to join in their pre-meal prayers no matter where they are dining, I too had similar problems with my overbearing family of religious zealots. They would actually take it further by standing up at the table in the middle of the restaurant, joining hands and ending the prayer with, "And, Lord, please bless all these heathens that didn't bless their own food." Seriously. — Got the Crazies in My Family, Too!

Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via the online form at www.creators.com/dearmargo. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.

COPYRIGHT 2013 MARGO HOWARD

DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM



Comments

18 Comments | Post Comment
People are always referring to the traditional wedding vows, (we did use them) but not everybody uses them. Some people write their own and we were given that option, nearly 40 years ago.

Maybe these people didn't do the "sickness and health, etc."

Comment: #1
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Fri Apr 5, 2013 10:38 PM
Didn't Margo write sometime in the last year, that she didn't like to use response letters? Lately she's been running pell-mell down THAT slippery slope!
Comment: #2
Posted by: Miss Pasko
Sat Apr 6, 2013 2:04 AM
LW1, I find it extremely insensitive that you believe your mother should have gone through years of suffering to honor those vows. Do you feel the same way about divorce? Those vows are religious and not legally binding. Very pretty and sentimental - but as millions of people realize not really appropriate in all cases. You mention 'draining and dangerous" - you seem to have had more sympathy for your father, who was gone, than your mother who was still 'here'. Would it have been better for you mother to have divorced him? It is very easy to allow others to suffer so that YOU can feel better about the situation. It is an individual choice for people to make whether someone is willing to sacrifice their life as a 'noble' gesture. (I thought of using the word 'cause' instead of gesture but there is not an positive end result - therefore gesture is the correct word.) It is very sad that you have such little regard for your mother's well being and happiness.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Penny
Sat Apr 6, 2013 5:33 AM
LW1--"What happened to honoring the wedding vows of "in sickness and in health, 'til death do us part"?" Please reach up and pull your head out of your ass and climb down off your high horse for five minutes in order to apply some common sense to the situation. It is absolutely possible to honor wedding vows to a spouse stricken with Alzheimer's while also LIVING one's life. What you're forgetting in your self-righteousness is that very likely, the stricken spouse would not only condone such a discreet affair but also insist upon it. Caring for a loved one whose mind dies well before his or her body is excruciating and heart wrenching. This is akin to keeping a person in a vegetative state using machines; let's face it, the person is for all intents and purposes...dead. Life is for the living and as long as the healthy spouse is discreet with his or her paramours then I for one am willing to look the other way.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Chris
Sat Apr 6, 2013 6:14 AM
Over at Dear Prudie there was a letter with similar ideas a few months ago. Namely, the wife was in her late forties I think, and had spent the last decade or so caring for her husband, who after an accident had "child-like intellect." She loved her husband, or at least the man he had been, but she was climbing the walls with sexual frustration, as they no longer had an intimate relationship. She was wondering whether a discreet affair was acceptable in this instance.

Dear Prudie has a much, much larger comment base than here (on the order of thousands), and while some supported her, some others condemned her the same way these LWs did, by throwing her vows in her face, some by insinuating that sex was rather too important to her (I will not use the names here), one person telling her to just get a vibrator (rather missing the point), and one even suggesting trying to have sex with the husband! It's amazing how many strangers will tell people that they should be fine and dandy with decades of celibacy and loneliness thanks to the "in sickness and health" part of their vows.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Jers
Sat Apr 6, 2013 7:05 AM
Miss Pasko, I've noticed that, too, about the talkback columns.

My theory is that her mail may be seeing fewer questions, and rather than recycle letters, she creates new content by printing responses to her earlier columns.
Comment: #6
Posted by: hedgehog
Sat Apr 6, 2013 7:14 AM
I'm of the opinion that people who condemn the spouse of an Alzheimer's patient for not remaining "faithful" really have no understanding and NO DESIRE to understand the disease itself. With late stage Alzheimer's and dementia, yes, that person is, indeed, gone and there is no hope that they will one day magically be cured and come back to themselves. In essence, it is rather like the portrayals of Zombies on, say, The Walking Dead. Higher brain function is gone and all that is left is the baser instinctual functions. The spouse of a person in the final stages of this disease is reduced to a fray adjacent care taker and observer. Their spouse's mind is gone and while the body still lives, there is no true marriage between them. It becomes a waiting game at that point; waiting for the spouse to die the physical death but in truth, the spouse is already mentally and emotionally dead for what made them who they were is gone and all that is left is a primal animalistic brain function that has nothing to do with humanity. In my mind, the spouse of a person with this disease HAS honored their wedding vows and in truth, death has parted them already, but it is not yet physical death. I think that if my father were to find himself someone who cared enough about him to love him through such a loss with my mother, or vice versa, I would embrace the person as part of my family for it is a rare heart indeed that can commit to loving a person with these issues, and it would be a person whom I would like to have in my own life because that kind of depth of caring encompasses the true meaning of Unconditional Love and my life would be made richer with them in it.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Mdelwell
Sat Apr 6, 2013 11:05 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. God didn't put me on this earth to judge others. I leave all the judging up to him. Not only that, we don't all have the same values or beliefs and I surely do not impose mine on other people. Whether the situation of dating others while your spouse has alzheimers is wrong or right is not up to me. Or you! My father went in to dementia when my mother died and I had to put him in a nursing home here. (BTW-they were excellent with him). If my mother had still been alive and wanted to date I would have been all for it. If there is anything wrong with it, I'd let God take care of it. I have enough trouble taking care of myself without taking on the judging of others.
My daddy died from Alzheimers this last January. Thankfully, he only had to fight that battle for 3 years. Let's focus on finding a cure for that horrible diease and let God take care of what's "right" or "wrong". I miss you daddy.
Comment: #8
Posted by: jac
Sat Apr 6, 2013 2:24 PM
Re: jac
My condolences for your loss, and kudos for your non-judgmental and compassionate attitude.

Comment: #9
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat Apr 6, 2013 4:37 PM
I am about as stringent in the fidelity expectation in marriage as it's possible to be. But I would have no issue with my hubby dating if he foudn someone, if I had alzeimers. I imagine he would feel the same.

Of course, I have no desire to be kept alive once my mind is gone, and some people seem to be all for clinging to "life" for as long as mechanically possible. To quote my mom "God doesn't give bonus points for needless suffering".
Comment: #10
Posted by: farrar sanchez
Sat Apr 6, 2013 5:34 PM
"Oh Lord, tell these fools that saying grace isn't even a good measure of a Christian, much less the only measure of one. And Lord, tell these self-righteous fools to sit down!"
Comment: #11
Posted by: angoradeb
Sat Apr 6, 2013 10:42 PM
At the risk of revealing too much information about myself, I met my husband when I was ten years old. He came into my school, and he was a rebel type, and this Catholic School girl just lost it about him. Of course, the years went by, we went to different high schools, mine an all girl school, but we found our way back together. We got married in 1975, and I would have been a mess if he did not love me also, because I loved him so. We have a son, and my husband could not have been better at sharing the child care responsibilities.

Now we are married for almost 38 years. We are happy, still working hard at our careers while saving for retirement, go out for dinner, and run with our dogs in our other house in NY. I am trying to describe a bond between two people that is so profound that marriage vows pale in comparison. I would do anything to take care of him if he became afflicted with Altzheimers or any other disease. I could not live with myself if I did not.

Having said all of that, if I met a friend that made things a little easier for me, I would let myself have dinner or lunch or something, but I would never let husband go.
Comment: #12
Posted by: Carly O
Sun Apr 7, 2013 12:39 AM
It can work the other way on a spouse with Alzheimer's. Sandra Day O'Connor had to put her husband in a home for Alzheimer's patients. Here he could get the care he needed. She went to see him daily. One day she noticed him with another patient-a lady- and they seemed close. With time, his mind had forgotten all about Judge O'Connor
and this lady was his companion, his love. Judge O'Connor said she was very happy for him as he had someone to be with, to share with, and he was content. This should happen on both sides of the situation.
Comment: #13
Posted by: Millie
Sun Apr 7, 2013 7:38 AM
Re: Carly O #12
Marriage vows are supposed to be the expression of the kind of bond you have with your husband. How wonderful for you two that the two are aligned for once! Because they rarely are. You are so lucky. Yes, I know, that kind of bond needs constant maintenance in order to endure, and the both of you deserve full credit for that upkeep. But just the same, you also have to have the raw materials to work with.

Comment: #14
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Apr 7, 2013 6:43 PM
Re: Millie #13
Good point.

Comment: #15
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Apr 7, 2013 6:44 PM
Re: Lise Brouillette

Thanks, Lise, and you are right. We are lucky and we had bumps in the road like anyone else. But you are right about needing the raw materials. We did not have them when we were very young, but luckily, we grew up and got smart together. That does not happen for everyone, unfortunately.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Carly O
Sun Apr 7, 2013 8:41 PM
Do we really know what is going on in the mind of a dementia patient? There have been cases of people awakening from apparent vegetative states that were aware of what was going on around them but were unable to communicate it. There is the lovely story of the husband of an Alzheimer's patient who came and fed her her meals every day (as did several cousins and friends of mine): His answer was: I don't know if she knows who I am--but I know who she is.
Comment: #17
Posted by: partsmom
Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:35 PM
LW1&2: Margo is right and you are wrong. Pow.

Comment: #18
Posted by: Diana
Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:58 PM
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