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Happy Mother's Day
Dear Readers: Happy Mother's Day. Please phone your mother, grandmother, mother-in-law, stepmother or foster mother and wish them the best. And our special good wishes to all the new mommies who are celebrating their very first Mother's Day. Also, …Read more.
Thank You, Mom and Dad
Dear Annie: I am writing a long overdue thank-you note to my parents. They are faithful readers of your column. Mom and Dad, I am thankful that:
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Wife Needs to Get a Better Job
Dear Annie: Money is a constant issue in our house. I need my wife to quit her part-time job at a superstore and find one with a better salary. She knows this. But every time I bring it up, she gets angry and defensive and says that I am calling her lazy. I am totally not saying that. She's a hard worker.
We have a total of $50 in savings. We also have a young son and hope to have another child. I'd like to move into a house. To accomplish this, we need two full-time salaries. How do I bring this up without making my wife angry? I love her dearly. — Grand Rapids, Mich.
Dear Grand Rapids: Instead of insisting that your wife find a better-paying job, try talking to her about why she wants to stay where she is. She may love her job. She may be afraid to look elsewhere. She might want to stay home with the kids and believe you should be the one to get a different job. And of course, there may be other issues of which you are unaware. Tell her that you are worried about your financial situation, and ask, gently, why she is so reluctant to deal with it. But keep in mind that while nice, a house is not a requirement for raising a family. Many couples manage just fine without one.
Dear Annie: I staunchly refuse to attend gatherings thrown by a particular friend who is obsessive about RSVPs. She insists on them for everything from a backyard BBQ to a girls' night at the movies. Telling her "yes" over the phone or in person doesn't count. It has to be by return mail or a response to an Evite.
I live 200 miles away. Once, I RSVP'd yes, but my car broke down two days before the event. I called immediately to tell her I wouldn't be able to come, and she berated me for having said "yes" if it was not a sure thing, like I planned that my car would break down. Then she criticized me for not being able to afford the repairs in time. A month later, I received pictures of the trip to Europe she treated herself to in order to make up for the disappointment of my having ruined her party.
I rarely wish to be anywhere near her now and pointedly ignore all invitations that are not delivered verbally. If I can't make it, I pretend I am treating her to her next extravagant vacation. — Had Enough With RSVPs
Dear Had Enough: Your friend sounds like a very high-maintenance drama queen. Insisting on formal RSVP responses for informal gatherings is obsessive, and berating you for things beyond your control is punitive. We don't know why you persist with this relationship, but since you live 200 miles away, it would be fairly simple to move out of her orbit entirely
Dear Annie: I have to make a quick comment in response to "Feeling the Void in Indiana," who said men feel incomplete without sex and will risk everything for it. I acknowledge and appreciate where this man is coming from. My husband also "felt the void" and did risk everything to fill it. Fortunately, we were able to work through his affair and remain together.
As the infirmities of older age begin to set in, my husband is now grateful that I stuck by him and can care for him, and he is less concerned about sex. If "Feeling" has not yet had a frank conversation with his wife about his needs and asked about HER satisfaction, he is making a huge mistake. My husband thought I knew what he needed and assumed I wouldn't care that he was pursuing satisfaction elsewhere. But he didn't communicate clearly and never asked me whether I was happy. That cost us untold pain that could have been avoided. — Wish It Had Been Different
Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please email your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 737 3rd Street, Hermosa Beach, CA 90254. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
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67 Comments | Post Comment
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LW1 - the Annie's gave you good advice. Talk to your wife and find out what she is thinking. Remember this is a partnership and you don't get to tell her what to do. You are not her father; you are her husband. While you are talking about how to solve your financial problems, don't forget to consider who will do the housework & the childcare. Running a household - keeping the place clean, doing errands, making food & cleaning up afterward, taking care of a small child - is a lot of work, and if you & your wife are both going to work full time, you are going to have to share the load at home, not expect your wife to keep doing everything at home that she is doing now.
LW2 - not sure why you wrote to an advice columnist because you seem to have solved this one on your own. Ignoring all of this person's invitations and saying "no" to those you can't ignore seems like a great solution to me.
Comment: #1
Posted by: kai archie
Wed Mar 6, 2013 9:10 PM
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Wth regard to LW1, it would be interesting to know the child care arrangements for the young son they already have. If the best job a parent can get is part time at a "superstore", that parent is not earning very much, and add a second child into the mix, and surely, the cost of child care would be more than what this mother would earn.
Maybe they get free child care from relatives, but this situation is so sad. I may sound like a broken record, but I am so tired of people thinking it is just fine and dandy to keep having children they cannot afford.
LW1...you want the house and the kids, but you seem very unrealistic about how people achieve all of that. The last thing you want to do when all you have is $50 to your name, is have another baby. Can you improve your job situation? I am guessing you don't have a great job either. But you are putting the blame on your wife, who, along with you, has a baby to care for. Maybe you should get back to school, maybe get some kind of professional certification, and improve your earning ability so that your wife can work her part-time job, maybe save some child care expense, and stop acting like it is all her fault that you want the American Dream but you are not doing all you can to achieve it.
If it makes more sense for her to go to school part-time, maybe you both should consider that.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Carly O
Wed Mar 6, 2013 9:46 PM
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* * * * PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT * * * *
LW3 refers to the final letter on 30 January 2013.
That letter referred to the whole column of responses to 'Your Husband' published on 15 December 2012. The original 'Your Husband' was the first letter on 21 October 2012. A single response was included on 5 January 2013.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Miss Pasko
Wed Mar 6, 2013 11:24 PM
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For the husband that wants his wife to find a better job, what you need is to clarify the goals you both have, separately and as a couple and make sure the couple goals are truly shared. Also you need an entire financial plan. What else can you do to save money? Cut costs? etc... It's a rough job market out there and it can be hell to job hunt while working and taking care of a child. Cover all bases and let her decide for herself that she can get another job, but unless that job includes maternity leave, it could all be for naught when she has that second child anyway. Do you both really want a second child? Do you really want someone else to raise your children and hardly spend time with your family? Think through all your wants and create some goals and a plan.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Laurie
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:42 AM
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LW2 - Like kai archie, I'm not exactly sure what the purpose of this letter was. It appears that the LW has solved her problem and didn't ask for any advice.
LW1 - It does sound like neither the LW nor his wife have jobs that pay very much if they only have $50 in savings. The LW needs to sit down and have a long conversation with his wife about their goals and what they both need to do to get out of their financial bind and plan for the future. I don't see where he says they're TRYING to have another child, just that they would like to have one at some point. Hopefully, they'll wait until they're more financially secure before they do so. They need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of the wife finding a full time job, including the costs involved, such as child care and who would be responsible for the household chores that have to be done.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Kitty
Thu Mar 7, 2013 2:03 AM
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LW1: When I read this letter, the first thought in my head was " If these young people don't get on the same page about money and quickly, the marriage is doomed."
Most divorces do not happen because of infidelity, or abuse. Most marriages break up over disagreements about MONEY. It is also my observations that how a couple interacts about money is an indication of the health of the marriage. Even my CHURCH recognizes this and through the last years has started a ministry around family finances to assist couples with dealing with their disagreements about money.
My advice to the LW would be to look into financial planning classes ASAP. These can be very cheap: my church does a program called Financial Peace University and the cost for a 12 week class (meeting weekly) was $150 including all the study materials. The program was written by Dave Ramsey, who is a nationally syndicated radio personality, but you can find his stuff on the web as well. Many churches do FPU: it is faith based, but not overwhelmingly so. The class is geared towards couples although my church allowed me to attend by myself.
There are other planning classes out there, some you can take online, but I preferred being in a room for the classes. The most important thing is that you and your wife do this TOGETHER. It doesn't sound like she feels she's in a partnership. You seem to be making decisions WITHOUT her and her first response, as most peoples would be is to rebel. Honestly, this is about more than money. It's about how you communicate and it's a strong indication that your marriage is in trouble. If you don't decide to do FPU, at least look into getting some financial counseling.
Comment: #6
Posted by: nanchan
Thu Mar 7, 2013 3:02 AM
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LW2: Well, I hope you feel better!
FWIW, while your friend is really taking things over the top (and she sounds NUTS), I am a big believer in RSVPs. So many people today either don't respond and show up, or they don't show up when they respond and it is incredibly unfair to the host/ess. Maybe the "friend" has been burned by that type of behavior by others in the past, I don't know. She certainly takes it a new extreme!
Just send her one last PERMANENT RSVP that sounds "I will never attend anything you host ever again."
Comment: #7
Posted by: nanchan
Thu Mar 7, 2013 3:07 AM
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LW1 - I think the others here had good suggestions. Sit down with your wife and talk about wanting another child and a house and how you two can afford it. Talk to her about cutting costs and what you two can do to get more income. I, too, was wondering about child care. Child care isn't cheap. Hopefully this will work out for you.
LW2 - I was on your friend's side about RSVPing...until you said that she won't accept a "yes" over the phone or in person. That's ridiculous! I understand where a written RSVP is needed, like for a wedding, but for a BBQ? That's over the top! Then, she not only berated for when your car broke down, but then she felt she had to treat herself to Europe because you "ruined" her party? She IS a high maintenance drama queen! Nanchan is right - one last permanent RSVP that says, "I will never attend anything you host ever again."
Comment: #8
Posted by: Michelle
Thu Mar 7, 2013 3:45 AM
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(adding to post 6)
Also, my church does offer scholarships to FPU and most financial consultants are free for the first consultation.
Comment: #9
Posted by: nanchan
Thu Mar 7, 2013 3:59 AM
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LW1, talk to your wife, be ready to compromise and negotiate, and also be ready for the two of you to make a plan that may include delaying the house or the second child. (I'm sorry, but if you are having money troubles already, you need to be realistic.)
If the second child is a priority, then you may have to delay getting the house, and vice versa. And this is an era in which home ownership has more uncertainty than in many times in the past, too, so it's very important not to let your dreams overtake your current ability to pay for those dreams.
And maybe your wife isn't as eager for a second child as you are, and this is her way of controlling the situation. (If she knows you can't have a second child until she gets a better job, then maybe that's why she's dragging her heels in getting a better job... )
So you have a lot to talk about with your wife, and also a lot to think about and renegotiate with your wife about your plans for the future.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Mike H
Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:03 AM
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LW2, it really sounds as if your friend is either dealing with some borderline control issues or this is her way of ending the friendship, by pushing you away so hard that you end the friendship (because she doesn't have the guts to).
One thing to consider is if it is only you she does this to, or is this the way she is with everyone? But either way, unless she shows evidence of wanting to work on her issues, it's probably best to keep your distance and let the friendship die.
LW3, I'm glad your situation eventually worked out... but I should caution other readers that its not at all universally true that all men lose their drive due to infirmity or age, so I do hope that there aren't any younger wives out there counting on this happening... there are no guarantees!
Comment: #11
Posted by: Mike H
Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:08 AM
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LW1: Something doesn't add up here. Either you need to get a better job yourself or you need to do more around the house. She also may have different long-term goals than you have. The Annie's gave good advice here. Talk to your wife and I remind you that her opinion and input is just as important as yours.
LW2: In addition to what the Annie's said, I suggest you write a letter to this "friend" and tell her why you are ending the relationship. Do not spare her feelings. Then sit on it a week and edit out the emotion and fill out the facts. If after a while you still want to send the letter, then do so. By that time you will have sorted out in your mind what life will be without her and what she may tell friends you have in common. You very well may end up not sending this letter, but you will feel better having written it.
LW3: You sound loke a good person. Your husband is very fortunate he is married to you.
Comment: #12
Posted by: JustWinBaby
Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:16 AM
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How do I bring this up without making my wife angry?
**********
For one thing, you don't come at it by saying that you NEED your wife to get that job, because that is a solution that you arrived at unilaterally. You're a couple, which means decisions need to be made jointly.
So...instead of starting out with "you've gotta work full-time," you start by talking about what you BOTH want in life, and what kind of financial resources you need to feel secure. (Does SHE think a house is important? Do you know?) Your wife's full participation and enthusiasm here are critical to the next step, so I'd recommend limiting this conversation to this topic alone, without any talk of how you'll pay for it.
That comes later, maybe the next day, when you're both well-rested and not distracted: "We've agreed that we want X. To get X, we'd need monthly income of Y and savings of Z. Right now we only have A in income, and B in savings. At this rate, Son will be in high school before we achieve X. What can we do to get X faster?"
And then you look at ALL the possibilities.Cutting expenses -- selling a second car, moving to a cheaper place, using cheapo prepaid cell phones, giving up cable. Increasing income -- you (yes, YOU) getting a better-paying job or taking on a second one; wife getting a better-paying job; wife doing home parties or freelance work. As you look at those options, you factor in costs, all costs -- from financial to emotional to physical. Child care. Your health. The amount of parenting time you each have. Commuting time and cost, or a move to reduce those costs.
This is a convo where you both listen, and talk. If you feel your commute and work mean you only see your son when he's asleep -- say that. If she's thinking her full-time pay will be eaten up entirely by child care, she says that.
I heard once that there was a study indicating that in families with children, those that reported the most life happiness and satisfaction were those in which the parents' total work time was 60 hours a week, and that the study found it didn't matter how that 60 hours was split: 60-0; 40-20; 30-30. Two parents working 40 hours does introduce a different kind of stress on a family.
Which is why it's really, really important to make sure you're both on the same page. Seems to me she knows how you feel, but that you've either not heard what she has to say, or you've dismissed it as unimportant.
Comment: #13
Posted by: hedgehog
Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:28 AM
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LW1: There could be any number of reasons why she's reluctant to search for another, better-paying job. The first that came to my mind is that's the only job she may be qualified to do, and working long hours just to bring home a meager paycheck leaves little time for things such as school.
I'd ask how much do YOU make? Can YOU get a better job, or is it the same situation (you're at the "top" of your career relative to your skills and because of your schedule, you've little time to improve those skills so you can make more/get a better job).
Right now, you're stuck. Not permanent situation, mind you, but right now, you've got to deal with meager finances and for the short-term. What everyone else said: You need to sit down -- take the child to a babysitter, unplug the phones and turn off the TV, all that because you're going to want to do this uninterrupted -- and talk about your situation seriously. If you need a professional to help out, invite him or her over.
There are no guarantees, not even about the future of your relationship. But it is clear you need to make some major changes to deal with the short-term, improve your situation and then deal with the long term. Your future, if it's meant to be, hangs in the balance.
You say you love your wife dearly. I will take you at your word for that. You and your wife need to sit down and have that conversation if you want to continue to meet your goals and have a happy marriage.
LW2: I don't know if I'd use "drama queen" to describe her. OCD or otherwise hyper-organized might be a better term, I think. Either way, things come up and/or things happen that are unanticipated, and they can't be helped.
Not even your friend's reaction, which was one of disappointment when she obviously thought you should have still been able to come. Plus, in addition to her going off on whether you were able to afford repairs, she needs to realize many car repair shops (at least thouse I know of) are busy and require appointments several days in advance, which you can't help and your friend won't understand.
I'd be really reluctant to accept future invitations from her, regardless of whether you can "make it for sure."
Comment: #14
Posted by: Bobaloo
Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:48 AM
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I wonder why they have only $50 in savings? Are they blowing the money on silliness? I had a husband who never paid the bills, but when I started paying them I found he had lowered our account balance without recording the checks he had written. I finally got a job and started my own checking account. I wrote checks from our joint account to put in my personal account in order to pay the bills and keep things like the electricity on. I really wanted to be a stay home Mom when my babies were small. I didn't want someone else raising them. My husband's forcing me to work robbed me of that and caused a lot of resentment.
Comment: #15
Posted by: sarah stravinska
Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:51 AM
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I'm a little shocked that the Annies don't seem to have problem with this couple having a mere $50 in savings when they have a child and rent to pay. Forget owning a home, they are one grocery bag or a child's snowsuit away from being HOMELESS. If their child needs a prescription, how are they going to pay for it? Their finances have reached a crisis situation, and the Annies are saying, well maybe she likes her job and not everyone needs to own a home?
>
Just as men are expected to do their fair share of the housework today, women need to understand they no longer have the luxury of deciding to be stay at home parents or work part-time or at a job they "love" if the family can't afford it--they need to bring home their fair share of the bacon.
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Can you imagine if the Annies had responded the same way to a husband who didn't want to do his fair share of the housework?
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Dear Annie: Housework is a constant issue in our house. I need my husband to help out with the housework and childcare more, because right now he's doing 1/4 while I do 3/4s, and I just can't do it anymore. He knows this. But every time I bring it up, he gets angry and defensive and says that I am calling him lazy. I am totally not saying that. He's a hard worker.
Our house is a complete pigsty, with filth everywhere. We also have a young son and hope to have another child. I'd like to have a clean house. To accomplish this, we need two adults both pitching in. How do I bring this up without making my husband angry? I love him dearly. — Grand Rapids, Mich.
Dear Grand Rapids: Instead of insisting that your husband help around the house, try talking to him about why he wants things to stay the way they are. He may hate doing housework. He may be afraid that he might not do a good job with housework. He may want to work more hours at his job and believes you should be the one to do more housework. And of course, there may be other issues of which you are unaware. Tell him that you are worried about your housework situation, and ask, gently, why he is so reluctant to deal with it. But keep in mind that while nice, a clean house is not a requirement for raising a family. Many couples manage just fine in a dirty house.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Jane
Thu Mar 7, 2013 5:19 AM
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re: part time work at a "superstore"
There may be many reasons why she doesn't want to leave. A cousin of mine works at the local Walmart near her home part time and was LUCKY to get the job. She's a teacher by education, but the only work in their area has been part time at the Walmart and there were literally hundreds of applicants.
We are STILL recovering from a major recession, people. It's pretty easy to say "Just get a full time job" but the job market may not support that. It's possible that she LIKES the work. My cousin does: she meets a lot of people and the change from teaching entitled children (with their equally entitled parents) is a nice change. She's also got a small discount and knows about the sales ahead of time. The discount and knowledge of the sales has helped their finances a LOT in ways that are beyond the hourly wage.
Comment: #17
Posted by: nanchan
Thu Mar 7, 2013 5:41 AM
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Re: Jane
I usually agree with your analogies, but this time, it doesn't work.
First of all, it would only work if there were 1)no children who would require childcare and 2)if both partners are working full time. In my house, the rule is if someone isn't working/going to school full time, they take over the overage on the household chores. Fluctuation on this is why stay home PARENTS (and I have several friends and family who have stay home HUSBANDS) work.
Every family has a different dynamic. For example, a new friend of mine has twins who are 4 years old. When she was pregnant with the kids, they decided HER salary, benefits and prospects for promotion were better than his, so he quit his job and stays home full time with the kids. Her company is also VERY flexible about working from home and she's able to take advantage of that (**OFF TOPIC** but this week I was SHOCKED at the Yahoo exec who outlawed working from home! Nice for HER to say, she had a nursery built next to her office and no doubt has a nanny to take care of the kid while she does her work!). The agreement with my friend's husband is that he also does 100 percent of the housework and the cooking. When the kids go to school full time (in 2 years) he will consult from home in case the kids need a parent to pick them up or are sick.
I don't think you can equate housework and financial contribution: they are two very different animals.
Comment: #18
Posted by: nanchan
Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:02 AM
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LW1: Your wife works part time at a superstore.
As others have pointed out, you're one grocery bag away from homelessness. You both need to sit down and figure out a) how to cut costs and b) how to improve your income.
However, don't forget to look at what your real income is. Since your wife works part time at a superstore, I assume she gets an employee discount. If she leaves that job, I assume you'll need to also presume your grocery bill will go up by whatever her employee discount is. Ditto your clothing. Ditto your housewares.
Your wife getting a better job is not the only answer and it's unfair of you to put it entirely on her. You need to sit down with her, have a hard look at your finances and figure out what you can do to work towards your goals together.
Comment: #19
Posted by: Shannon
Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:14 AM
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LW1--You have just $50.00 in savings and yet you're planning on having another child? Honey, the stupid shouldn't breed, that was your first mistake. Another mistake is thinking that you're going to change your wife. You can insist she get a full time job all you like; it doesn't mean she will or even that she can. Since you've apparently been living under a rock up there in Grand Rapids Michigan, a State especially decimated by the down economy, you obviously don't realize that full time jobs of any description are hard to come by for even the most qualified college educated people and even those who hold advanced degrees, let alone someone who considers working at a superstore a career. The fact of the matter is that your wife likes where she's at now and isn't interested in starting the grueling, arduous, often humiliating process of locating a better paying job solely simply because you have caviar tastes and a beer budget. Stop harping on it before you wake up one morning to an empty apartment and divorce papers where your morning paper usually is.
LW2--Your "friend" seems like a passive aggressive little b-tch who needs to be put in her place. Stop responding to her eVites and other invitations altogether. Then, add her number to your smart phone's blocked caller list. Soon, if she has half an ounce of sense, she'll discover what you already have that this friendship is over.
LW3--Am I the only one who thinks this "fill the void" metaphor for sexless marriages sounds dirty?
Comment: #20
Posted by: Chris
Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:27 AM
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Regarding LW1:
Typical bias response from the Annies. If it had been a woman writing in about her husband refusing to work, they'd have called him lazy and said she deserved better. But since the LW is a male, they refuse to lay any blame on the female and even suggest that he should be the one who work more or change jobs.
MEN. They're to blame for EVERYTHING.
Comment: #21
Posted by: Princess Bride
Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:32 AM
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kai archie wrote (comment #1):
“LW1… While you are talking about how to solve your financial problems, don't forget to consider who will do the housework & the childcare. Running a household - keeping the place clean, doing errands, making food & cleaning up afterward, taking care of a small child - is a lot of work, and if you & your wife are both going to work full time, you are going to have to share the load at home, not expect your wife to keep doing everything at home that she is doing now.”
Where does the LW1 say that his wife is doing all of the household work? And that he'd expect her to keep doing everything?
You're making ridiculous assumptions. It's just as possible that she is lazy and does very little around the house, no?
But let's not leave common sense get in the way of man-bashing.
MEN. They're to blame for EVERYTHING.
Comment: #22
Posted by: Princess Bride
Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:40 AM
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Re: Only having $50 in savings, I don't think we can come down too hard on them for that at this point in our nation's economic history. Many, many people are in the same boat, barely able to pay the monthly bills and despite cutting back and scrimping they still have trouble building up their savings.
Now, we can absolutely say that it's troubling to be contemplating having a second child under those circumstances -- that's foolish and short-sighted. But taking that out of the equation, the simply fact that right now they have trouble saving money isn't that unusual, nor is it necessarily a sign that they haven't been budgeting themselves carefully.
(Although they may want to contemplating moving to a different, cheaper apartment, and building up their savings faster, rather than anything else).
Comment: #23
Posted by: Mike H
Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:54 AM
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LW1: I would be willing to bet there are a lot of families who would like to have $50 in savings. I have just a little more than that myself. We live in an area where jobs are few and far between so you kind of take what you can get.
It may also be that the mom, being a mom, wants to be home with her child as much as possible. If she were to work full time that wouldn't be possible. When our kids were small we did without a lot of things so I could stay home with them and I am so glad I did. I know this isn't possible for everyone and at times it was hard for us also. Many times my husband took on a part time job to make a little extra money.
It sounds like this couple needs to sit down without interruptions and really talk this out. Figure out what the goals are that each of you have in mind, Write them down. And put having another baby on hold. Look at your expenses and see if there is anyplace you can cut back. We had to have our cable TV shut off four years ago and now we don't even miss it. And here if you don't have cable you don't get anything. We do get Netflix and there some shows I watch on the internet. But those two combined are still much cheaper than cable. Prepare more meals at home rather than eating out. You would be surprised how much you can save that way and they don't have to be anything extravagant.
And as nanchan suggested, the FPU is a good program. Explore your options.
Comment: #24
Posted by: GSDluv
Thu Mar 7, 2013 7:00 AM
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Re: nanchan
Housework and money are different, but should the person working 2 minimum wage jobs totaling 50 hours a week do more housework than the person working 40 hours for $50k/year just because they are contributing less money? Is that fair?
I remember having a young son. LW 1's wife is probably exhausted from working part time and doing all the cooking, housework, laundry and childcare and she may believe he won't be picking up the slack if she works longer hours.
Comment: #25
Posted by: nonegiven
Thu Mar 7, 2013 7:59 AM
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Thank you PB. I may be in love with you. Or maybe just your statements today.
Comment: #26
Posted by: Gerhardt
Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:48 AM
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LW1: Poor people should not have children. You are poor. Therefore, you should not have children.
Comment: #27
Posted by: Soozan
Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:52 AM
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When I had my first child, I was a SAHM. We needed extra money, so I told hubby that I would get a part time evening job, he could watch the baby, and we would save the cost of a sitter. A sitter would have wiped out any money I was making. I scheduled work, told him about it ahead of time, and he said nothing. When I was getting ready to leave for work one night, he announced that he was going out with a buddy. He INSISTED that he would not cancel. I scrambled to find a sitter, went to work, and quit two weeks later. And had to endure yelling from my supervisor for punking out. We worked it out like this: oddly enough, hubby agreed to work a full and part time job. I did EVERYTHIVG at home, except yard work. You really need to be honest when you discuss these things, or you will have to learn from your mistakes. I don't know why he couldn't watch his own kid while I worked, but he clearly could (would) not. But since he was willing to work extra, I went with it. Life would be easier if people were always logical, but they are not. Go figure.
Comment: #28
Posted by: Patty Bear
Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:55 AM
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Re LW#1---
I see a couple of red flags here. The first one is that he says "I NEED" my wife to get a full-time job, etc. rather than "I WOULD LIKE" my wife to get a full-time job. The second is that "I'D like to move into a house," not "WE'D like to move into a house". They may not mean what I think they mean, but it sure sounds like he's wanting to be the decision-maker and is angry because she's not following through.
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And the stuff we don't know: How many hours does she work compared to how many he works? And does she make up the difference with housework, cooking, tending their child, etc.? Is their child in school or does she have the care of him all day except for the hours she works? What is the child-care arrangement? IF she went to work full-time, would he pick up extra at-home duties to compensate for it, so that they share the home duties equally if they both work equal time away from home? Could HE bring in extra income by perhaps finding a better-paying job? If she goes to work full-time, what will the NET result be after the extra child-care costs, higher tax bracket, etc.?
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IF he agrees to take on extra duties at home if she works full-time, will he then actually DO it, or will he come home and plop down in front of the TV and leave her to spend her evenings doing it all?
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And of course, it goes without saying, you don't bring another child into the mix when you can barely afford the one you have. All other things being equal, I tend to agree that she SHOULD work full-time if they can't make it financially'; but if I were her, I'd first want to be absolutely sure that he was someone who would actually take on more of the home stuff that she is perhaps doing now. We don't know what the division of labor is now, but if both work equal hours, I hope that she makes sure there is an agreement that BOTH will do the same concerning the stuff you DON'T get paid for--------and that if he reneges, she goes right back to part-time. (And of course, this is all going on his assumption that you just say "I want a full-time job now" and presto------one magically appears.) Good luck with that in this economy.
Comment: #29
Posted by: jennylee
Thu Mar 7, 2013 9:37 AM
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RE LW1:
You people are sick and will insert all kinds of ridiculous assumptions to reinforce your manbashing.
Give your heads a shake bigots.
Comment: #30
Posted by: Princess Bride
Thu Mar 7, 2013 9:45 AM
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I share the sentiment that requiring a written RSVP for informal events is over-the-top. But, if the person invites you to an event via Evite, I think it's reasonable to expect people who are attending to respond "yes" on the evite. That's the whole purpose of using evite -- to track who is coming in one place. I'm generally of the view that, with evite, you only need to RSVP yes. No response = not coming.
Comment: #31
Posted by: myname
Thu Mar 7, 2013 10:18 AM
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LW1 -
What the Annies said - you need to find out why your wife won't change jobs, surely there is a reason, since you admit it can't be because she's lazy. There are lots of good reasons why she may reluctant to make a change.
How are you contributing to the household chores and child care? If they're all solely on her shoulders, then she's already working outside of the home more than she owes you to. I don't know if this is the problem here, but if you want her to contribute equally financially, then YOU have to contribute equally to the unpaid chores. Right now, it may very well be that you wife doesn't have the energy to do more than she already does.
Take a close look at your expenses. Unless you're both working at minimum wage, it seems to me you should have more than 50 bucks to your name. It may be that you're living above your means. And if you ARE both minimum-waged, then what's preventing YOU from upgrading your earning abilities?
I would also advise you to effect a bit of an attitude shift... Your wife is supposed to be a partner, not a slave you get to order about, and you're not the of the Castle. You don't get to unilaterally decide who works and how many children you will have, like a war general deploying his forces as he sees fit. These things ought to be joint decisions.
I think this is one instance where marriage counselling could be useful, as there seem to be a number of things to fix here... Starting with a lack oc communication. Why didn't you ask HER, instead of writing to an advice columnist? Or do you just want to be told you're right, so you can issue your royal edict?
P.S.: 50 bucks to your name is better than being in the red, which is where many households are right now in this economy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
@Chris #20
"Am I the only one who thinks this "fill the void" metaphor for sexless marriages sounds dirty?"
No. It makes it sound like the man is so primitive that all he need to satisfy his "manly" needs is a hole - any hole - and that's what a woman is. Puke.
Comment: #32
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Thu Mar 7, 2013 10:51 AM
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This is not gonna go over well, but...I agree with PB.
A couple, ANY couple, with only $50 to their name and living in a rented space, should have BOTH spouses working, period. They are a heartbeat away from disaster. Yes, he could work harder so she could keep a job she "really likes", or to achieve any of the other benefits people imagine might exist with that McJob, but come on. As PB points out, if the shoe were on the other foot ("I am a guy who makes diddly squat but I really like my job--the guys are SO nice to work with!--so I would like to change nothing except make my wife work 70 hours a week instead of 40"), all heck would break loose. And we would not be debating the "niceness" of the tone of voice in the request either. We'd be saying, get up off you @ss you @ss, get a real job, and contribute to your family.
(And they should not be entertaining notions of another child, either.)
Comment: #33
Posted by: Jpp
Thu Mar 7, 2013 10:52 AM
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Sorry, Nanchan, but I totally disagree. There is al sexist bias at play here BTL that the woman must be doing all the household chores and childcare or at least so much that she is too exhausted to take on more than a part-time job at a superstore. NOWHERE does it say that. NOWHERE. In fact, when the husband talks to the wife about getting a different job, even SHE doesn't say, "Well, I could if you did more around the house." And I'm sorry, but having worked in pretty well all the various dynamics (outside the home, in the home, from home, two parents working, one parent working. one parent absent, working mom/at-home dad. working dad/at-home mom, etc) anyone who is too exhausted from looking after a rental home, one part-time job and ONE child needs to see a doctor. If our armed forces' spouses had such little stamina, they'd all be in the hospital.
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Also, I'm afraid your post is irrelevant to what I said. Sure, every family has a different dynamic. Like your friend with twins, we, too, sat down together and decided my husband would be the homemaker while I worked. That is a totally different situation than what is happening with the LW, who has only $50 keeping the wolf from the door and whose wife REFUSES to DISCUSS the matter, nor does she seemed concerned enough about their financial dire straits to realize something has to change here. My husband also does the vast majority of the housework and childcare. SO WHAT? Nowhere does it say that is the case with this couple, but more importantly, this clearly wasn't an AGREEMENT they came to, because if they had, they would not be arguing about it now and they would not be failing to address their near-insolvency. These scenarios are completely unrelated. One is an agreement and partnership two people came to with no problematic outcomes, the other is a situation where one partner is refusing to address or acknowledge a serious problem, let alone discuss it or do something about it.
>
Your final statement, "I don't think you can equate housework and financial contribution: they are two very different animals" I don't buy that either. Yes, one parent may make more than another, but this isn't just about the amount the wife makes, but how many hours she spends earning income. Two parents who decide to marry and make a baby both have a financial and nuture/caring obligation to that child and their spouse. How they decide to divy up those obligations is the right of every family to decide, and it doesn't matter whether it is the male parent or the female parent who is doing what. But they both need to do their fair share. If they decide for one to work and the other to do the caring, great, or vice versa, or the both work and hire a nanny, or do split shifts, whatever. But when it's not working, and the family is one step away from not being able to pay their bills, the ohter spouse has a right to expect more and not be shut down for it. It works both ways. Just as a father can't decide to forgo childcare or child support, neither can a wife. It's not that she can't find a better-paying job, it's that she won't even try to look.
Comment: #34
Posted by: Jane
Thu Mar 7, 2013 11:01 AM
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@jpp, actually, it could go either way -- your interpretation requires reading more into the letter than is there, just like many other opinions today as well.
We're all making assumptions that may or may not have anything to do with the reality behind the LW's situation and their current finances.
Comment: #35
Posted by: Mike H
Thu Mar 7, 2013 11:14 AM
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Re: LW1, I honestly think the heart of the problem is less about finances and who is working what hours, and more about them not communicating or having shared goals in mind.
"I need my wife to find a better job." "I want to move into a house." Where's the "we" in those statements? Part of being in a relationship is that you compromise, work together, decide *together* on what your goals for the future will be.
Doesn't sound like the LW is doing that.
And any criticism to the contrary, the genders of those involved don't matter with such a problem. It could be a man writing about his male partner, a woman writing about her female partner, or a woman writing about her male partner, and the answer would still be the same: talk, listen, negotiate, compromise, and understand... so that you can both agree on your shared goals and work together on them.
Comment: #36
Posted by: Mike H
Thu Mar 7, 2013 11:28 AM
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LW1 - Believe me, I feel your pain, going through your situation myself. I have a regular full-time job that most would consider high-paying, as well as an additional side job and the occasional third side-job...but it always seems that expenses are outweighing income. That's because my wife also used to work full time, but lost her job in 2011 and then ran out of unemployment, which cut our income nearly in half. And often I felt as you do. But telling your wife to find full-time work is the wrong way to go about it. Instead, you both need to sit down and address the root problem of the financial situation you are in, perhaps with the help of a third-party credit advisor (they often provide free budget counseling), what your goals are and what you hope to achieve, and suggest numerous ways to solve it. Your wife finding full-time work is just one possible solution...you could find a better job, one or both of you could find another side job or start a home business, or you could find a way to cut some of the household expenses. People also bring up valid concerns about who will be responsible for childcare and home upkeep if your wife does go back to work...something else you need to address. But one thing for sure...you need to COMMUNICATE, not dictate.
Comment: #37
Posted by: Paul W
Thu Mar 7, 2013 11:41 AM
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I wonder about the ages of the couple in the first letter. If she's young, the wife may be living in a fantasy world of “everything will work itself out”; or maybe she's just too scared to face the realities of their situation. But I have a feeling there's a deeper reason than she just doesn't want to quit her job at Wal-Mart. Unfortunately, neither the Annies, nor the BTL, are psychics. We can't tell this husband why his wife won't work; he needs to figure that out, or they need to figure it out together. He should try changing his approach. Try asking questions and listening, rather than just demanding. The idea of having a child, and only $50 in savings, is scary. I hope they can work together and figure out a solution, together.
Comment: #38
Posted by: Casey
Thu Mar 7, 2013 11:52 AM
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1. " Money is a constant issue in our house."
No doubt they're broke and living paycheck to paycheck, so something has to give. He doesn't mention that they overspend, so we have to assume that they can't cut back on expenses. So either he has to get a part-time job in addition to his full-time job or she has to go from part-time to full-time (or pick up another PT gig). Taking gender out of this completely, I think she needs to up her employment.
Others have hinted that she's probably doing the bulk of the housework. We have no way of knowing that. I can tell you that in our household I work much, much more than my wife and still do a great deal more of the housework and parenting than she does.
2. "I need my wife to quit her part-time job at a superstore and find one with a better salary. She knows this. But every time I bring it up, she gets angry and defensive and says that I am calling her lazy."
Okay, I will. She's lazy. Someone w/ a PT job in a family where money is tight and won't work more on his/her own accord is a lazy sonofabitch. Getting defensive about it compounds the negative thoughts I have for this person. Hey, I love spending time with my kids too, but there are times when you have to do things you don't like to strengthen the family. It doesn't sound like this is a case of "gee honey, if you work more we can buy more toys for ourselves". This sounds like they struggle to keep the basic bills paid.
3. "We also have a young son and hope to have another child."
Okay, so we're not dealing with the brightest bulb here.
Comment: #39
Posted by: Gerhardt
Thu Mar 7, 2013 11:58 AM
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Princess Bride, I haven't heard many man bashing comments, mostly questions. The LW doesn't fully explain himself, or it was edited out. Surely you know that for the most part, working women still do most of the household duties, much as we wish it were not so. How does this equate to hating men?
Comment: #40
Posted by: Danielle
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:09 PM
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I bet your hubby IS happy that he got his cake while younger AND you to care for him in his old age. You understand you could be having fun instead of caring for a faithless jerk that put sex before you, right? That's not how I'd spend MY golden yaers.
Comment: #41
Posted by: farrar sanchez
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:22 PM
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To Danielle (#40):
Oh please. Stop drinking the Annie Kool Aid.
Comment: #42
Posted by: Princess Bride
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:25 PM
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The money-tight LW deosn't say how they will care for the child they do have if she works part time. But if she's working somewhere like walmart, getting a higher paid fulltime job is probably not going to cover decent full time daycare. He souds like he thinks she can just snap her fingers and have a better job (in THIS economy-HA!) and that all the extra money she makes will just go into their bank account, no extra expenses. Working costs money, too, and sometimes more doens't actualkly make more money. maybe HE needs to bring in more, too.
Comment: #43
Posted by: farrar sanchez
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:26 PM
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LW1... I didn't read all the comments so maybe this has been pointed out but sending 2 children, an infant especially, to daycare is expensive. More expensive than any $12/ hr job could afford. And of course the education of your wife isn't mentioned here so her abilities may be the limiting factor. You don't fall into a $30 per hour job by chance.
Also maybe she is already doing enough. I work part time and still maintain almost all of the household duties because my husband work schedule simply doesn't allow for much free time. And frankly I would rather do most things myself than spend precious little family time with him mowing the lawn. Obviously there are too many things being left out of the situation here. Money isn't the answer to everything. And for pity sake do NOT have another child any time soon.
Comment: #44
Posted by: It's me
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:29 PM
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@farrar sanchez:
"The money-tight LW deosn't say how they will care for the child they do have if she works part time. But if she's working somewhere like walmart, getting a higher paid fulltime job is probably not going to cover decent full time daycare."
EXCELLENT POINT.
"He souds like he thinks she can just snap her fingers and have a better job (in THIS economy-HA!) and that all the extra money she makes will just go into their bank account, no extra expenses. Working costs money, too, and sometimes more doens't actualkly make more money."
BAH - MORE WORK ALWAYS EQUALS MORE MONEY. NOT TO SAY THAT THERE MAY NOT BE EXPENSES, BUT EVEN ANOTHER PT JOB AT A GROCERY STORE, ETC. BRINGS IN MORE $. AND PT JOBS ARE STILL FAIRLY EASY TO COME BY. THEY'RE NOT ALL ATTRACTIVE, BUT THEY ARE THERE. GAS STATIONS, GROCERY STORES, WALMART. SOME OF THEM REQUIRE GOOFBALL HOURS AND PUTTING UP WITH SOME CRAP...BUT THEY ARE THERE IN MOST REGIONS.
"maybe HE needs to bring in more, too."
I'M NOT SURE WHERE TO EVEN BEGIN ON THIS COMMENT.
Comment: #45
Posted by: Gerhardt
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:36 PM
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Re LW1, I agree with PB and JPP with a few "buts".
They say they have only $50 in savings, but we don't know exactly what that means. They might live comfortably on their salaries, credit cards paid off, no debt, RRSPs, etc etc. In which case, $50 in the bank isn't THE BEST, but it's not THE WORST. It is possible that LW1 wants them to make EXTRA money so they can afford a house and another kid, but his wife thinks the status quo is just fine. If she's happy working part time, living in an apartment, with just her little family to feed and take care of, then fine. LW1 does say that HE would like to have a house and while it is implied they both want a second child, it's not impossible that this is not in LW1's wife's plans.
If that's the case, well, I don't think LW1 has much of a leg to stand on. Home ownership is wonderful, and having two kids is dandy, but if she's happy with her life as it is, and they can afford to maintain their lives in an apartment with one kid, well, too bad so sad, man. Should have had this conversation before you married and impregnated her.
IF however she also wants to own a home, also wants a second kid, and/or they are stretching every penny to keep the lights on, then yeah, she needs to get off her ass and work more. I am going to assume that she's not searching hard for a better paying job and just can't find one because of the economy because LW1's letter is pretty indicative that she is not interesting in changing jobs. But yeah, I'd love to work part time too and have a bunch of free time to myself!
In other words, are they arguing because they don't have enough money, or because LW1 wants MORE money to do things HE wants to do?
LW3 - Bleh, this one ticks me off. You withheld sex from your husband, got mad when he had an affair, and now are lording it over him because you take care of him now that he's old and frail, and thank god he doesn't care about sex anymore, right? Sheesh. I don't get women like you. You won't have sex with your husband, you won't divorce him, and you won't let him find sex elsewhere. Did you ever ask HIM if he was happy with no sex from his wife all those years? Yeesh.
Comment: #46
Posted by: Zoe
Thu Mar 7, 2013 12:43 PM
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LW1 -- here's the thing, you are probably right that what needs to happen here is that your wife needs to get full-time job instead of a part-time job. But that assumes that you have taken all of this other stuff that the Annies and the BTL have brought up -- potential need for childcare, the feasibility of your wife getting a full-time job, etc. And let me also say that I am assuming that your wife does more of the household chores than you do -- not because it's "women's work" and not because I'm some man-hating woman who just assumes that men are useless around the house, but because whoever has more time away from a paying job naturally SHOULD do more of the household chores, regardless of whether that's the man or the woman. So, assuming that your wife does do more of the household chores, she may be wondering if you have considered that she will need more help around the house -- either from you, or from a paid cleaning service (which, presumably, you cannot afford).
So, I think those who have suggested this is more an issue of communication and shared responsibility are on the right track. Did you say to your wife, "here's our household income, here's our household expenses, and we've got a problem, particularly if we want to have another child and buy a house. We need to look at ways to increase our income and/or decrease our expenses. Let's talk about what we can do." Or did you say to your wife, "you need to get a better-paying job." People of ANY gender are far less likely to get defensive if they are part of the decision-making process and if they feel that their opinions/wants/needs/perspectives have been taken into consideration.
If you really did take all these things into account and you really did try to make her part of the decision-making process, then I would agree that the problem is that you have a selfish and/or lazy wife. If, however, you didn't take thee things into account and you made the decision unilaterally, then not only are you at least PART of the problem, and it could also be that your conclusion that your wife needs to get a different job isn't even the right answer.
It's impossible to know from your letter, which is why the Annies and some of us at the BTL are suggesting some of these other things. The theory is that after you read some of the different possible interpretations and suggestions, you will be able to determine for yourself which of these different interpretations and suggestions best fits the bill.
Comment: #47
Posted by: Lisa
Thu Mar 7, 2013 1:53 PM
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LW2 -- did anyone else just assume that LW2 (who clearly wasn't seeking advice) was reacting/responding to previous letters about how people don't RSVP anymore? And frankly, I kind of can't figure out why the Annies felt a need to "answer" this letter. She's not asking anything. If they wanted to publish it as an anti-RSVP letter, I guess that's fine, but there was no need for them to offer advice. Moreover, the Annies say they don't know why the LW continues with this relationship. Well, actually, it sounds like she is well on her way to ending it, as she refuses to attend any event this woman hosts. So, unless the LW continues to proactively reach out to this person, I would say the LW isn't exactly "persisting" with this relationship. If anything, the bigger question is why the RSVP-obsessed friend continues to invite someone who never attends anything she hosts.
Comment: #48
Posted by: Lisa
Thu Mar 7, 2013 1:58 PM
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@Zoe -- while I didn't much like LW3 today, either, I didn't assume that she withheld sex from her husband. I assumed that her husband either wasn't getting ENOUGH sex from her (which doesn't necessarily mean she refused to have sex with him -- just didn't have sex with him often enough for his taste) and/or she wasn't giving him the KIND of sex he wanted (maybe she wasn't willing to experiment, for example). Moreover, I didn't assume that she refused to divorce him -- we don't know that he even WANTED a divorce. In fact, since she makes the comment that her husband is glad that she stuck by him, it sounds more likely that, if anything, SHE wanted a divorce but agreed to give him another chance. So, I agree with you about the concept IN GENERAL that a spouse of either gender who refuses to have sex but also refuses to get a divorce and then is upset when the other spouse seeks sexual satisfaction elsewhere are being ridiculous. I'm just not so sure that's what was going on with this particular marriage. It's possible, of course, but you're making some pretty big assumptions from an eight-sentence letter!
@Mike H -- I didn't take LW3's message to be "don't worry, dearies, eventually men get older and don't want or need so much sex -- just wait it out, and you'll be fine." I thought her point was that her husband never talked with her about what he wanted AND about what SHE wanted, and that if he had taken the time to ask her about what she wanted and gave some thought to her satisfaction, they could have found common ground in the bedroom (or the kitchen table, the shower... (; ) and BOTH of them would have been satisfied, and there would have been no need for them to go through the pain of his infidelity and the process of patching their marriage back together. Even so, if there were women out there who read LW3 and interpreted LW3's message to be "don't worry, he'll get older and won't care so much about sex," then I am certainly glad that you pointed out that this is not true for every man. Just as it isn't true for every woman, either!
Comment: #49
Posted by: Lisa
Thu Mar 7, 2013 2:16 PM
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Having a full time job does indeed cost more money than having a PT job. More child care, more transportation cost, more clothing, more taxes, higher auto cost. The list goes on. If she can not get a much better paying full time job, it might just not equal out. Her level of education may prevent her from getting a job above minimum wage, and in this economy even a good education doesn't guarantee a good job. I'm not going to dis the husband, he want to improve his life style. That's not a bad thing. THEY just need to get together and figure out how to do this. If The cost of a FT job is at least more than enough to cover the cost with a decent increase in take home pay, it could be worth it. If they are just going to be breaking even or just a small increase, THEY may need to take a different approach. More education in a field that would give them the extra income they need. He doesn't mention credit card debt, so hurray for them if they have none. I am thinking like the rest of the gang, Put that second child on hold for the time being as that will add another huge cost to their already tight budget. I am not convinced that they are any different than most young couples. Too little money to accomplish what he want to do.
Comment: #50
Posted by: Penny
Thu Mar 7, 2013 2:21 PM
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Lisa #47, Very nicely put.
Comment: #51
Posted by: Penny
Thu Mar 7, 2013 2:30 PM
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Re: Gerhardt I would be insulted if my wife wanted to take a job outside the home, like I was unable to do MY job of providing for her (and any family). I work 70 hours a week so that she can attend to the much more important job of taking care of the home.
Comment: #52
Posted by: Tim Kramar
Thu Mar 7, 2013 5:51 PM
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Re: Gerhardt #39
“He doesn't mention that they overspend, so we have to assume that they can't cut back on expenses."
I'm sorry, but that's a very big assumption. If I look my at my own late ex, whatever toy he wanted (like a chaise longue for his tired bones) was an essential whereas whatever I needed (like maternity clothing when nothing fitted me anymore) was high luxury. So the fact that he "doesn't mention they overspend" means nothing.
No, we have no way (unless SHE chimes in with the other side of it) of knowing that she is doing the bulk of the housework, which is why I personally raised the issue in question form, instead of assuming like some others did.
But then again, if we look at hard figures of statistics, it is still women who hold the bulk of the household chores in most households, even when they work full time. If it's different in your own, it's truly exceptional and you are to be commended for it, but please don't mistake your case for a universal standard, because it sure ain't.
Comment: #53
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Thu Mar 7, 2013 7:07 PM
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@Lisa, yeah, I agree that I doubt that was what she intended to say, but just thought that it would be easy enough for someone to take that away from her message.
Comment: #54
Posted by: Mike H
Thu Mar 7, 2013 7:56 PM
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Re: Tim Kramar
Good evening, Mr. Ralph Kramden. You are creating a deviation in the space-time continuum wth your mid 1950's, insulting to women, attitude.
That said, sometimes, when I am working so hard at work that I wonder why I am doing what I am doing, professional position at a Fortune 10 company, I wish I married a caveman like you.
Comment: #55
Posted by: Carly O
Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:36 PM
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Re: Tim Kramar
Good evening, Mr. Ralph Kramden. You are creating a deviation in the space-time continuum wth your mid 1950's, insulting to women, attitude.
That said, sometimes, when I am working so hard at work that I wonder why I am doing what I am doing, professional position at a Fortune 10 company, I wish I married a caveman like you.
Comment: #56
Posted by: Carly O
Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:36 PM
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Sorry for the double post.
Comment: #57
Posted by: Carly O
Thu Mar 7, 2013 8:37 PM
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Dear Annie: I have to make a comment in response to "Wife Needs to Get a Better Job". The husband complains he "needs" his wife to get a better job, they have $50 in savings, has one child and "wants" to have another. Oh and he "needs" her to get the better paying job hecause "he" wants to move into a bigger house.
What an egotisitcal jerk he must be to live with. No wonder his wife gets angry with his demand. In some twisted way he is subconsciously calling her lazy because she won't go along with his dumb idea of her getting a better paying job. He obviously doesn't respect the fact that she likely has a flexible schedule that allows her to take care of their child and home while he is unwilling to get out and get a better job so she wouldn't have to work at all. A real man would never, ever try to force his will on his wife in the manner he's doing it. It's all about him, not about her happiness. He apparently cares more about money than his wife to even ask that of her.
Perhaps she realizes they don't need to take on more debt or have another child now. Perhaps, as you kindly pointed out, she likes her job and feels secure there. It seems obvious this guy is a whiner and should get off his behind, dust up his resume and pound the pavement to get a better paying job in order to support his grand ideas to make his dreams come true.
Comment: #58
Posted by: DF
Fri Mar 8, 2013 12:47 AM
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Re: Carly O
I really don't think he said anything insulting to women. What's insulting about aknowedging the importance of homemaking? He never suggested that's all his wife is good for.
If one of the partners (usually the woman) stays at home, then it is normal that the other partner support the entire family. Because the economy and the cost of living are not what they were in the fifties, women have very much been forced to go out and get a job or a career. And, because the financial depency of the spouse staying at home (usually the woman indeed) has too often been used as a means of control and abuse, it has become imperative for women to have their own means of support.
But it still doesn't make it an insult to aknowledge the importance of homemaking.
P.S.: I WISH I had a caveman like him in my life... The house would be spic & span and I would have time to work on my opera.
Comment: #59
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Mar 8, 2013 4:06 AM
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I can't wait for the next time the Annies run an article from an angry wife complaining how her husband refuses to get a job so I can link back to the comments here and further prove how bigoted and sexist the bunch of you are.
Comment: #60
Posted by: Princess Bride
Fri Mar 8, 2013 5:43 AM
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Re: Lisa
Sorry Lisa, I think you are misinterpreting a lot of the letter.
I've made a couple assumptions but I don't think they are as crazy as all that. It is not an assumption that she refused to have sex with her husband. She says so: "men feel incomplete without sex... My husband also "felt the void"". I don't think this is because they only had sex once a week, or because she didn't want to experiment. As for the divorce, I don't know, but at that point in my reply I was speaking more generally ("I don't get women like you"), about the women who want to stay in their marriages without sex, but not letting their husbands get it elsewhere.
In your response to Mike H you suggest that she wanted her husband to ask her if she was happy and see if they could find some super duper fun stuff to have sex on/in. I don't think that's what she meant: "My husband thought I knew what he needed and assumed I wouldn't care that he was pursuing satisfaction elsewhere. But he didn't communicate clearly and never asked me whether I was happy." Rather, she meant that her husband never said "I need sex, I'm going to sleep with someone else, if that's OK with you" but just assumed that she wouldn't care if he slept with someone else, because she wouldn't sleep with him.
And I actually DO think that LW1 is actually happy that now, her husband is no longer interested in sex, so they can have a happy marriage together without him bothering her for sex, OR seeking it outside the marriage.
Comment: #61
Posted by: Zoe
Fri Mar 8, 2013 5:50 AM
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Re: Lise Brouillette
Lise, you are technically correct that he did not say anything insulting to women. My post was meant to be light-hearted, and I even said I sometimes wish I married a caveman like him. A statement that you repeated.
I think that everyone should be able to do what works for them, but I also believe that the old model of one parent at home taking care of business and the other making money is kind of ideal. I know that makes me old-fashioned, but I am current enough in my thinking that it is fine if it is Dad who stays home with the kids while Mom works. Or one of the Moms or Dads stays home with the kids. It is kind of tragic that the economy makes it very hard for families to function this way these days.
Comment: #62
Posted by: Carly O
Fri Mar 8, 2013 5:52 AM
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Re: Carly O
I had the same thought ("did I go back in time 60 years?") when I read that comment! It also made me kind of sad. If he works 70 hours a week, how much time do they get to spend together? I'd rather have a messy home and lots of time with my husband than not have to work, keep a perfect home, and rarely see him.
Comment: #63
Posted by: Zoe
Fri Mar 8, 2013 6:28 AM
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Re: Zoe
Zoe,
I totally agree with you. How much better would it be if, assuming the children were school age, that the wife could work a part-time job so husband does not have to work so many hours. If you are in a family with children, spending time together, as a family, is of primary importance. The responsibilities of earning money and taking care of the home should be shared in such a way that maximizes the free time for the good stuff for the entire family. I sure would not want to be a "domestic goddess" if the price is that my husband is killing himself at work, more than likely tired all the time, with no time to spend with us.
Comment: #64
Posted by: Carly O
Fri Mar 8, 2013 9:56 AM
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Re: Carly O
Agree with you 100%. As far as I'm concerned, the true equality and freedom of choice Women's Lib was clamouring about in the 60's means choosing a career if that's what you want, and staying at home with the kids if that's what you want... for either gender.
Comment: #65
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Mar 8, 2013 11:07 AM
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LW1: I agree, you need to find out WHY your wife doesn't want to look for a new job. Have you seen her resume? How much education and work experience does she have on there? What college degrees does she have that would qualify her for a good-payingfull-timejob? Is she working in a superstore now because she is educated and can't find work elsewhere, or because she is uneducated and this is all she can get? It's not like you can just "get" a job. One has to be qualified enough for their resume to stand out. She could try jobfox.com or something, that does free resume service, and for a small fee, will take it further and help you totally revise it. Maybe she needs career counseling. But, from the letter, I can only l assume what she needs is an education.
Another option is for her to ask her manager about full-time opportunities within the same superstore.
Comment: #66
Posted by: Salty
Sat Mar 9, 2013 5:50 AM
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LW1: You may not be saying it but she is so listen up. She doesn't want to work full time. Do you even know who you married?
LW2: Why are you friends with this psycho? Low self-esteem?
LW3: Huh? Your husband cheated on you because he thought you'd be okay with it? What? LOL
Comment: #67
Posted by: Diana
Sat Mar 9, 2013 6:37 PM
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