Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1 - A 9 year old's parent is totally within her rights to control who is in the same house as her child, especially overnight. It appears that your boyfriend, the girl's father, agrees with her mother so you are never going to win this one. In the meantime, it seems that everyone agrees that the kids, including your son, behave in inappropriate ways when they are together so you and your bf should both work on your own kids' behavior issues. Suggest that when your bf's kids are visiting him, you give them lots of alone time so they can get the attention from each other that they desire. You shouldn't put up with sass from a child, but this would be easier if you solved the underlying problem, which is that she needs more time with her dad. Keep in mind that you may think of these kids as your own, but they aren't. They have a mother, and you're not even their step mom, so you may need to back off some & let them spend as much time as possible with their dad.
LW2 - I don't see that you're much better than your coworker. You turn your music up louder around customers & coworkers? That's your idea of professionalism? Suggest you use your words and ask your boss to tell your coworker not to chew gum in the office. It would be better for you to do it yourself, since you have the problem, but you probably don't have the tact to ask in a way that she'll do what you asked for.

LW1 -
What the Annies said, but... The giant red flag I see here is " My boyfriend makes excuses for their behavior, but if my children misbehave, he is quick to let me know that I need to discipline them". This indicates that you are not on an even keel in his household, and it's always okay when *they* do it. That's called a double standard, and chances are (kids are pretty quick) that your children have already noticed that they are second-class citizens with your boyfriend, although they may be too young to be able to verbalise it, or are too shy to say anything.

Implement the suggestions the Annies have offered, and give them enough time to yield results. If the situation does not improve, you might want to reconsider the degree or even relevance of your involvment with this man, as your children's ipresence in your life predate his, and your first reponsibility is towards them while they are minors.

LW2 -
I do not agree with the Annies that "you have nothing to lose by asking her nicely to please not chew gum when dealing with the customers". People with rude habits tend to be quite defensive about them, and you are not her supervisor or her mother to be in a position to teach her manners, even if she's in sore need of a primer.

It's just as well that you "cannot think of a way to mention this without upsetting her" because, as tempting as it may be, it's not your place to do so. Suggesting the creation of a dress and presentation code makes a lot more sense, and has a lot more chances of yielding positive results.

In the meantime, turn your head the other way, listen to your music, and don't bend over backwards to cover her when her delivery is lacking. Perhaps when nobody is there to clean up after her, the administrators will start noticing her lack of social graces.

I don't agree with the reasoning that "our parents took care of us when we were babies............." so therefore we owe them the same when they're old.

I CHOSE to have a baby, so of course I took care of him. Who else would have? It was my choice, not his.

If people want to take care of their elderly parents, that is great, but my son doesn't owe me anything, except to be a good parent to his own children. I help take care of an elderly aunt, but it's out of love, not because I feel like I owe her anything.

I totlally sympathize with LW2. When I changed jobs the last time to the huge phone company, I wound up in a cubicle, not the office I had for fifteen years prior to getting this "better" job. When you get used to being able to close the door on the rudeness of people who eat like pigs, put all of their calls on speaker phone, talk way louder than they need to, and especially when their mouths are full of food, you need music and ear phones. I am continually astonished at how rude people around me are, and recently, a man who breathes loudly, has moved into the cube next to me. He spends his day talking loudly with his mother, and has no problem uttering four letter words loud enough for every surrounding person to hear.

I think I will print this comment and leave it on the oaf's desk.

* * * * PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT * * * *

LW3 refers to the second letter on 4 October 2012, and was also discussed on 25 November, 3 & 11 December 2012.

@Joannakathryn - not sure I follow what you're saying - if your parents mistreated you etc. and you don't love them, OK, sure, you don't owe them anything. But if you do love them, then the point of the letter is that you should suck it up and deal with the unpleasantness of dealing with an elderly sick person, and not abandon them. The LW didn't even imply that anyone has to "take care" of anyone else - in fact, they are NOT taking care of their elderly uncle, just visiting him - they do not avoid the unpleasantness that comes from seeing him, like the original LW did.

LW1--If you want my advice, it's to drop out of the dating pool until your children are grown and out of your house or at the very least until they're in high school. The situation you're describing now is a pressure cooker just waiting for an excuse to explode. What will it take? Your boyfriend's demanding daughter to decide that your 11 year old son "touched" her when she isn't lavished with the attention she thinks she deserves? That will send your boyfriend's vindictive ex into hyperdrive. The next thing you know your boyfriend will be fighting to retain even partial custody and you'll be out of the picture altogether. It if doesn't come to that extreme, it will be your boyfriend's kids, influenced by your boyfriend's ex, undermining your every move and your boyfriend taking their side and blocking you at every turn. Is all that really worth the hassle? Tell your boyfriend it's time to cool things off before the situation with your two immiscible families improves. If he's a keeper he'll stick around, if not then you've just saved yourself a lot of needless strife.

LW2--Yes, ignore the cow. The reason your office staff doesn't seem to notice your coworkers annoying habit is most likely because she's competent at her job and discharges her duties to everyone's satisfaction. The only person her gum chewing seems to bother is you. I think you're fixated on this because you fancy yourself a superstar at the office and subconsciously are focusing on the flaws of others because you're insecure. My advice is to get a pair of headphones instead of turning up your music and worry about perfecting your own work and job performance instead of what others are doing.

I disagree that it's reasonable for mom to insist no other children there when hers are present. Either she trusts her child's father with their children, including who is appropriate for them to be around and who not, or she doesn't. It's not her damn business what he does with them provided it's legal on his own custodial time. And the fact he lets her get away with it dear LW, plus how he is less generous with your kids, AND the fact you've been dating him FOUR YEARS without marriage, is evidence it is far past time to move on.

For the record, my husband said flat out he wanted to marry a woman with children, because he wanted to see how his children would be raised before commiting to marriage and children with anyone. I know, he's odd. But ironically... both of us firmly agree we would never ever marry someone who had kids.... if we already had kids. As in if he already had a child, I would never have considered marriage with him, and if he already had a child, he never would have considered marriage with me either since I had kids when we met. Dealing with one ex is more than enough, and mine is a stand up model citizen poster child for "perfect ex husbands".

Re: "I blame my boyfriend for letting his ex control the situation." Um, excuse me, but who do you think you ARE? Your boyfriend's ex is their MOTHER, and from the sounds of it, the primary parent. Of course she should be controlling the situation, along with your ex, who seems to be agreement with her.
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You, on the other hand, are almost a nobody in this situation. You are not their mother, you are not their stepmother, you are not even an aunt or greandmother or teacher or even someone very admirable. In their eyes, you are simply the woman their father sleeps with, a "step-girlfriend", and someone who could be gone forever next week, to be replaced by some other "girlfriend" six months down the line.
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Your mistake is in believing that if you all moved in together, dragging your reluctant kids through the revolving visitation door with you, then you would go all Brady Bunch and be one big happy family. It almost never works that way. Blended families take a huge amount of work, dedication, sacrifice, compromise and commitment, and that usually means starting with marriage to show that commitment, and working with the exes from day one to do anything you can to support the kids' relationships with their parents.
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The fact that after four years you have yet to make any effort to even get to know your boyfriend's children's mother (they are not your stepchildren), let alone work with her, speaks volumes about the fact that you are simply not step-parent material. Not to mention at least a half-dozen other red flags in your letter. As someone else suggested, your best move would be to move out, wait until your kids are older before you start dating again, and DON'T move in with anyone if all you're planning to do is play house. Kids don't need that crap.

LW1 - It's always difficult to bring two families together and try to merge them into one, and in this case the LW isn't even a stepmother to her boyfriend's children. She really has no right to dictate to either his ex-wife OR him when they have their visitation arrangements. Frankly, I don't blame the children's mother for wanting her children to have time with their father without other children present, especially since apparently she (the ex) doesn't know either the LW or her children. I agree with the Annies that the LW should try to get to know her boyfriend's ex, and maybe that would help the situation. If not, the LW has to realize that the children were there before she was and they are and should be her boyfriend's first priority.

LW1; grow up. You're not the stepmother. Visitations schedules are between the father and mother of those kids.


And I agree with the commentators who say you're ignoring the real problem - your BOYFRIEND is ignoring his kids' bad behavior, turning his daughter into Little Princess and YOUR son into a scapegoat.


You need to think about your kids and whether your BOYFRIEND is good for them.

LW1 OR you could get your husband to switch visitation weekends so your kids are out of the house when the BF's kids are also out of the house. Then you and BF could have a quiet weekend together.
Seriously, though. Kids are excellent at driving a wedge between a parent and a possible step-parent...even after they marry! They will lie abut anything just to get the parent to themselves. It took her years, but my stepsister finally broke up my mom and her dad. Later her dad married again and she tried the same thing with the new wife. This time my step-father recognized that my mom had not been exaggerating and told his now-grown daughter to get out of the house and leave him to enjoy his new wife.

Re: Joannakathryn #3
Totally agree with you, although I think we are in the minority. Choosing to do something, and therefore being responsible for the aspects of doing it, is not the same as having something thrust on you and then being expected to do the same.
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You choose parenthood. You then must do the best job you can till that child is of legal age. Anything extra is a plus, of course.
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The old "I didn't choose to be born" is a cliche, but it's also a truism. You bring someone into the world, you ARE responsible. On the other hand, the person brought into the world willy-nilly by you really doesn't OWE you because of that. (Be the best parent you can be, and with luck you might get some reciprocation, but it's not a done deal.)
It's best to expect NOTHING in the way of being taken care of by your kids, and if they ARE there for you, great. But I really hate the guilt thing-------'you owe me because I gave you life'. You didn't do it for the sake of your child, you did it because either YOU wanted to be a parent, or because you were irresponsible with birth control.
You OWE them 18 years of a decent life. They, in turn, OWE you nothing.
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It's nice if the relationship, and the people involved, are such that they WANT to care for you when you get older, but please don't expect it, and don't lay on the guilt. That tends to have the opposite effect, unless you've managed to instill in them at an early age that you are OWED this. And if that's the case, then you are a lousy parent.

Re LW#1------
I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason you want all the kids there at the same time is not so much for 'togetherness' for them as that if you squeeze all the visits into one weekend, you and your live-in boyfriend will have the next weekend free of them.
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Here you are blaming his kids for the problem ("his 9-year-old sasses me and wants to be the center of attention".) Well, of COURSE she does----------she wants to see her dad when she comes, not you, and certainly not your 11-year-old son. She sees no reason to mind you, because who are you to her? You're not even her step-mom, and your son is not her step-brother. You could be gone tomorrow, for all she knows-------and she probably hopes you will be.
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And his ex is blaming YOUR son for the problems, and you are defending him. Typical mess when kids from prior relationships are thrown together. Whoever said this is not the Brady Bunch is absolutely right.
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And to top it off, you say your boyfriend is stricter regarding discipline for YOUR child while letting his kids slide. A recipe for disaster, for sure. Sorry, but your chances for this working are not good. Might be your kid, or his, or both, trying to sabotage things, or might not be. In any case, I wouldn't bet on this working long-term.
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I'm actually with nanchan on this one, that your kids come first till they are grown and out on their own. (Where is she, by the way? Anyone know?)

LW1 - get out of that relationship now for your sake and the sake of your child(ren). Chris is right (comment #7). Your son is in danger of that girl saying he did something he didn't. That little girl knows EXACTLY what she is doing, and so does your boyfriend's ex.

I'm going to approach this post in a Lise B. style:

@wkh: It took me two read throughs to fully understand your post (I blame our coffee this morning. It's very weak and failing to properly do its one job: waking me up) but once I got it, I found it very interesting. I think it's a smart approach you and your husband took of not dating someone who had children, if you had children. It just seems like it would be confusing for the children and it seems difficult to mesh parenting styles. I also appreciate your husband's honesty that he wanted to date a woman with children so he could see her parenting skills! That's actually a smart approach. It's kind of like figuring out how a potential spouse deals with money.

@Jane #9: D*mn, girl! Let the LW have it! I actually completely agree with everything you (and Kitty) wrote. If this woman oversteps her boundaries anymore, she's going to find herself single very soon… which as Chris pointed out, may be a good thing.

@Carly O. #4: I'm sorry about your work situation :( Rude people like that never, ever get it. If you were to leave this column on his chair, he would probably think “I don't chew gum, so this doesn't apply to me.” Jerk.

@Jennylee: Oh, I think nanchan has been around, just in different forms…

Regarding LW2 -
Chris above made an excellent point when he said, "I think you're fixated on this because you fancy yourself a superstar at the office and subconsciously are focusing on the flaws of others because you're insecure." After reading that, I'm now looking at myself and wondering if the same thing applies to me.
Anyway, I've been in the exact same situation as LW2 and I can say from experience that she is NOT her co-worker's supervisor and has no right to tell her how to do her job. If she goes to her co-worker's supervisor, the supervisor will dismiss the situation as a rivalry between the two women and let the co-worker know who tattled on her. Then, LW2's workplace situation will go from bad to worse.
I also asked my supervisor to please, please, please move me to another cubicle away from my co-worker and they refused, so after searching for a long time, I finally got a better job. It took A LONG time, but it happened.

Re: Joannakathryn (#3)

Look, I'm going to agree with Steve C (#6) and possibly others here. Sure, you may not expect your child to care for you and that all you want is for him to be a good parent to his kids, which is understandable. But I'd think that teaching your kid to care for you in your old age OUT OF LOVE and BECAUSE HE/SHE WANTS TO is the key.

LW1: I didn't quite understand the letter, except that there is apparently conflicts between the two sets of children. I'll give the easy answer for now – until you marry and if you're truly committed to this relationship, get together with the exes and work out a schedule where the two sets are together as rarely as possible (preferably never).

LW2: Agree that you probably are best off ignoring the co-worker.

I had to make a second pot of coffee for today's post and comments since I am having problems comprehending I guess. It appears that the Lw#1 does not have full custody and only sees her kids every other week-end. Do I have that right? For whatever reason she has not had her children full time for at least four years. I can't see how she is the best judge of parenting issues. Not that she is a bad mom, just not fully aware of what children are like at certain ages. Her son would have been 7 when she moved in with the BF. I also am assuming that she nor he were married to the children's father/fathers - mother, since the ex's are referred to as relationships. So when she says that she loves his children and treats them as her own I am not convinced that that is a good thing considering her 'relationship' with her own and why she only gets them every other week-end. (If I am reading this correctly). It seems as if she is the one who needs to work on parenting skills or, as others have said, move out and get her own house in order. I'm not sure that it is the LW's kids that the BF's ex doesn't want them around- I believe it is the LW. How can she parent someone elses when she can't parent her own.

Re: wkh, I am REALLY having problems understanding your post. The second pot is just not clearing it up for me. Your husband wanted to marry a woman with kids but then wouldn't have married you because you had kids? Perhaps you could straighten this out for me.

Re: Casey #16
"I think nanchan has been around, just in different forms".
Ya think? I have to admit, the other day, when a letter about picking up food from your plate with your fingers turned into a comparison of blue-collar and white-collar jobs, something rang a faint bell. I'll have to watch more carefully.

To clear this up. I NEVER post under another name. Only nanchan.

Back to your regular scheduled programming.

LW1 - SO GLAD I don't have kids.

Anyway, so you and your boyfriend have all the kids only on weekends? And now it's alternating weekends? I don't quite get it. And oh no, a nine year old girl is sassing you! Little girls are bitches, especially when a new woman is involved. That's just what happens when you have baggage and meet a guy with baggage.

Likely, you will always have issues with how you raise the kids (his and yours) between you and your BF, you and your BF's ex, and your BF and his ex. You have to decide now if you're willing to deal with it to be with your boyfriend.

Some joint parenting courses might not be a terrible idea. Making friends is also a good idea but easier said than done.

As an aside, I would like to know what the ex's concerns are and that the inappropriate behaviour is and that you did not elaborate on this concerns me a little bit. Without sounding alarmist, I have to wonder if we're talking about stealing, cursing, things of a sexual nature, etc. There are few reasons I can think to keep two children apart.

My aunt and her husband each have two kids, shared custody (one week on, one week off). The alternate - one week it's just her kids, one week it's just his, one week it's all four, and one week it's none of them. Maybe you and your bf could do something similar.

LW2 - Really? You have a headache because you're so stressed that she chews gum? Give me a break. You sound catty and really need to find something else to focus your energy on, or get a new job, because you aren't going to change his woman's gum chewing habits anytime soon.

LW3 / Re: Steve C

Joannakathryn's point is that your kids don't OWE it to you. I am not taking care of my parents when they get old. I will visit them in a home but do activities with them but if they want a proper caretaker they can start saving up their money now to afford one later. Nuts to that.

It's kind of like if you do a favour for someone without them asking you to. They aren't indebted to you. If they want to reciprocate then great. If not, too bad, you can't make them.

For the record I found the OLW whiny and childish - it was obvious she just didn't want to visit her aging relatives and was making stupid excuses not to.

@kai archie #1
"A 9 year old's parent is totally within her rights to control who is in the same house as her child, especially overnight."
In a stranger's house, yes, definitely. But the ex's household is his to rule, not hers. If he's good enough a parent to have been granted shared custody, she has no business telling him what to do in his own house. If he creates conditions that she objects to, then it belongs to her to go to court and revisit the custody arrangements. In the meantime, she doesn't get to rule two households instead of one.

Re: Steve C #6
To add to what JohannaKathryn said, there is a subtle distinction here: You WILL take care of the elderly, or visit them even when it's unpleasant, out of love and gratitude and basic human decency. Especially when the elderly in question are your parents, because then they went through plenty of unpleasantness themselves taking care of YOU when you were growing up. Not doing so, when there are no good reasons to shun the person, is a reflection on you and shows how heartless and self-centred you are.

However, it is NOT "owed". It is true that parents choose to have children, but children do not choose to have parents.

@Chris #7
"The next thing you know your boyfriend will be fighting to retain even partial custody and you'll be out of the picture altogether."
And the boy could end up in juvenile court, risking a sex offender status. If the girl is manilpulative enough not to contradict herself at some point, she will be believed. By the authorities, and certainly by her parents. That includes her father - your boyfriend, who has proven in the past a propensity to side with his children without looking too closely at who's truly at fault.

There have been so many abuses in the past, with children (especially female) not being believed and/or being blamed, and ending up being molested for years, that the system has swung completely to the other extreme. While false accusations are rare, they are definitely not exceptional, and result in extreme injustice every time.

@Jane, Kitty, JMM
While it is true that, as a mere girfriend (and, from the letter, a mere dating girfriend and not live-in), she has no status and no authority to dictate anything. But... her children do not become half-children because of that and they are still getting the short end of the stick here. Especially her son, who seems to be the designated scapegoat.

The 11 year-old boy is the oldest, which means the daughter is younger. She will soon be old enough to start wondering what could happen if she tests her wow-power with adults, and Chris's scenario becomes a worrisome possibility.

I definitely think the LW should re-evaluate the amount of time she and her children spend in that house. At the very least.

@Jennylee #14
All I know is that she appeared on Yahoo the other day. I don't know about wowowow, I don't go there.

Re LW1: After all the posts BTL about them not being married, I got curious and re-read the letter as if it came from a man who is the "boyfriend" of another man. (The letter as I see it, does not mention the sexual orientation of the adults) Kind of put the somewhat judgmental "marriage" aspect of the whole relationship in a different light.

LW2, Call me an old fogey but I do not understand what an administrative assistant is. If you are 'sharing' an office this seems to mean you are both equal in seniority. "One horrible habit 'I' can not fix. It doesn't seem like it is your responsibility to fix it. I too find gum popping and open mouth chewing to be uber nasty, and if it is bothering you, tell her. Don't take it to the top. It is best to handle things like this on a one to one basis. I'm sure you would want 'her' to come to you with a problem of yours rather than take it to the boss.
Jennylee, I would never have thought she would come back to hit and run. That doesn't seem to be her style. Although who are what she is is a mystery.

Re: sabrina free
Interesting hypothesis.

No, it doesn't specify gender and sexual orientation, but things like that are usually mentioned even when they're not quite relevant to the problem at hand, simply because they are very much outside of the norm and many people feel self-conscious about them.

Also, prejudices and skittiness towards unconventional arrangements being what they still are, I doubt that the fathers or mothers would have gotten shared custody is this was the kind of set-up the children were facing in at least one of the households (no mention of the ex having a SO).

Re: Penny
Just like the housewife became a "homemaker", the secretary became an "administrative assistant". Same yurunda as before in both cases. ;-D

Re: Penny

My title is admin assistant also. We do "stuff", most of the communications (email etc), drafting letters, updating files... All the random office work. Of course each admin will tend to have more specialized roles as well (for example I do a lot of conference planning work).

If they were on better terms I would agree with approaching directly but it doesn't sound like is this is the first time they have butted heads over something.

Re: Lise Brouillette, We used to call them, when a female, Girl Friday's. I guess that sounds a bit sexist in today's PC world but I never found it offensive. It entailed much more than being a secretary. Almost like a right hand.

Re: Zoe, There you go! I can definitely see you as a Girl Friday! I always loved that term. It was so much more than 'The Secretary'. ZOE...Girl Friday. Ahhh yes, perfect. Kinda like the super hero of the office. I am showing my age.

Re: Penny

I have never heard that before! ANd now I wish it was Friday!

@Penny: It took me two read throughts to understand wkh's post. I believe what she meant was her husband wanted to date a woman with children, so he could see what kind of parenting skills she had. However, if he had children of his own, he wouldn't want to date a woman with children. wkh felt the same way. If she had children (which she might) she wouldn't want to date a man with children.
I don't want to speak for you, so if I'm wrong, wkh, let me know! :)

Re: LW1, she doesn't go into any of the details as to why they have not gotten married, and there may be legit reasons for their circumstance, so I'm not quite prepared to say that dating for 4 years and not being married is a problem.

However, given that she doesn't have any standing as a "stepmother" I think she is expecting too much, and needs to step back and let her BF and his ex sort this out as they choose. If it is true that her BF treats her children more strictly than he treats his own, however, she should address that issue just out of respect for the future of their relationship.

Re: LW2, I'm a little perturbed at the rather dramatic way the LW describes her (could be him, I guess, but I'll stick with her for convenience) reaction to her co-worker, who seems unpleasant but not outrageously so. It doesn't seem particularly professional to be that bent out of shape by relatively small concerns in the grand scheme of things. LW should continue to kick this up the chain, as talking directly to her co-worker will likely only exacerbate the tensions that are already reportedly between them. But she should also look for another position AND she should engage in a little self-reflection about her reactions to this co-worker. There's something more going on there.

Re: LW3, I'm firmly in Joannakathryn's camp on this. No parent should *expect* that their children will take care of them when they get older. It's part of being a responsible adult that you make plans for your own care. If your adult children *want* to help out of love and respect, that's one thing, but the *expectation* of such support is *wrong*. It puts an unfair additional burden on your own adult children that they never signed up for, especially when they themselves may already have several responsibilities of their own.

@Penny (again!) I love the term "Girl Friday" but I never knew what it meant. Thanks for clarifying! I remember watching an episode of I Love Lucy where she auditions to be a Girl Friday. I wasn't sure what it meant, but I thought it had a nice ring to it.

LW1: The Annies gave good advice. You would like the kids to get along with one another primarily for your convenience (because that way, on the weekends when all the kids are with their other parents, you get adults-only time?).

I'm with Jane on this; the kids see no reason that they should get along because there's nothing in place that assures them this is a permanent or even long-term arrangement. (And while it is possible that LW is male the fact that the boyfriend has a female ex makes that less likely, and the phrasing reads more feminine -- I believe this is most likely a straight couple who could get married but have chosen not to.)

LW says she understands the need for individual time with the parents, but apparently fails to understand how difficult that is to come by on a weekend visit with 6 people (minimum) in the house. The boyfriend's 9 YO daughter, in particular, is "sassing" "upset" "demanding" and "controlling" (!) in response to this difficult situation, and instead of recognizing that, LW wants to press on with her preferred plan. It's time to walk your talk, LW -- do what's best for the kids and give them some time with their dad outside the crush. It's STILL going to be difficult for them to each get the amount of individual time they need with their dad (they must compete with the sibling and you) but at least your kids are outta the mix.

Re: Zoe #29
Chances are they butted heads over the LW's perceived lacks of her coworker's. And whether she's right or not, it's not her place to micro-manage the other. She should get headphones for her MP3 and MYOB!

@Penny #30
I was under the impression that "girl Friday" referred more to a receptionist who is also a secretary, which is what I used to be and called when I was working in the garment trade. God knows I was doing plenty more than just answering the phone there. Perhaps I was mistaken, or they were wrong, or there was more than one meaning to it. Aw well.

LW1 - I don't think people who are "dating" should shove their children together. Occasional times together ok, but not to be expected on every visit. I think the main problem is the LW is forcing herself and her child too far into the relationship between her boyfriend and his children.

LW2 - A possible Machiavellian solution -- Since the business has customers, have one of her friends witness the behavior and complain to management about it, as a customer, without mention of the LW.

Penny - If memory serves me (from high school!), the term came from Robinson Crusoe. His companion/aide was named Friday, and the term is meant as a compliment to a particularly efficient and loyal assistant. Except, when male they were always referred to as "my MAN Friday", and when female, "my GIRL Friday."

Sorry if my Girl Friday comment was directed to the wrong poster. I hate that when I log in, all the other comments disappear.

The term Girl Friday is in reference to the Robinson Crusoe's character, "Man Friday". Although in today's PC world it is considered a slight, never-the-less one I always found to be more enduring and closer than a secretary. The Go To 'Girl' for everything. It always connoted to me someone who was indispensable to ones business and personal life. Secretaries could be replaced, Girl Fridays were not easily replaced. My take on the term.

LW1: The children are confused and acting out because of the complete and utter instability of their home lives. They are from previous relationships, not marriages. And now you're pushing them into another unstable domestic situation without benefit of marriage.

Do everyone a favor and get your tubes tied, you stupid cow. And get your boyfriend snipped, too. We don't need any more monsters like the ones you're raising.

If you want my advice, it's to drop out of the dating pool until your children are grown and out of your house or at the very least until they're in high school."
"I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason you want all the kids there at the same time is not so much for 'togetherness' for them as that if you squeeze all the visits into one weekend, you and your live-in boyfriend will have the next weekend free of them."
"get out of that relationship now for your sake and the sake of your child(ren). Chris is right (comment #7). Your son is in danger of that girl saying he did something he didn't. That little girl knows EXACTLY what she is doing, and so does your boyfriend's ex."
"It appears that the Lw#1 does not have full custody and only sees her kids every other week-end. Do I have that right? For whatever reason she has not had her children full time for at least four years. I can't see how she is the best judge of parenting issues"
These are just a few of the statements made today that have made me shake my head. So let me get this straight. This woman, who has been with her boyfriend for 4 years and treats his kids like her own, should get out now because:
A) Anyone with children should not be dating until their kids are grown? (WTF?)
B) Wanting alone time every other weekend with your bf is wrong when you have kids? (She never said that btw- that was a conclusion that was not only jumped to but pole-vaulted to across the Grand Canyon).
C) The 9 year old girl might do or say something that will bring charges against the 11 year old out of spite (are we scared of kids now? Does anyone else see the logic in avoiding dating in case there might be criminal charges in the future?)
D) Parents with shared custody do not have full understanding of parenting issues. (This one really boggles my mind. For one thing, nowhere does it say she ONLY has her children every other weekend- it just says their kids, until recently, were together every other weekend. That aside, how does being a shared-custody parent make you any less of a parent? Who decided this?)

Re: Charliebug, Welcome to BTL. It's aways nice to get a 'new' poster with different thoughts on the letters and our responses, to keep us on our toes. We all get different 'reads' on the letters and answer them according to what we think they mean. What is your advice to the LW?

Re: Charliebug
Personally, I fail to see how it's a negative judgment on anyone that they have shared custody instead of full. It doesn't mean the parents with shared custody are only half good enough, but that parental rights of father have been recognised at last, after years of the sexist view that mothers were the only ones qualified with parenting.

I also don't see anything wrong with wanting some alone time - everyone needs a break from work, and a household with at least four kids in it certainly sounds like work, even if it's a work of love.

I am not one of those who say people should either live in celibacy or have only one-night stands until the kids are 18, but I am saying that potential partners should be considered taking into account the needs of the children already in the picture (no loony toones even if you find them very sexy), that they should only be introduced to your new flame when it looks like it's getting serious, and that if there is a conflict between the children's interests and the parent's love life, the children's interests should come first.

As for, "are we scared of kids now"? An acquaintance of mine who used to sub as a teacher has seen it happen to more than one fellow teacher. There are unfortunately some little vixens out there (generally female), revelling in their brand-new hotness and getting their jollies out of ruining people's lives, who don't care one whit that their shenanigans are also ruining it for real victims.

And then there are the imbalanced and angry kids (generally male) with an access to guns... How many school shootings have we had so far in recent years? Kids are a lot more dangerous than they used to be. So in some cases, yeah, we should be scared indeed.

Thanks Penny. Funny, I don't see myself as "new" since I have been reading this column for so long but I guess I am a newbie here :)

My advice for the LW is to have a frank and open discussion with her bf about what would be best for all involved and then have the bf present that to his ex. What my good friend did when she and her now fiance first got together (he has 2 kids with shared custody- one week on and one week off and was moving into her place) is played it by ear until the kids started playing one parent against the other, which they will inevitably do. My friend and her bf went to the ex and had a meeting where friend and ex were introduced and their concerns brought to the table. I realize this is not always possible but these people are very conscientious about the kids having a united parenting front where everyone agreed on what was best for them and shenanigans were no longer attempted by the kids. This is not to say everything is always rosy. There have been a lot of ups and downs and I sometimes wonder if she thinks it was all worth it but by all accounts, it definitely is.

I do not have children but being the child of divorced parents where both of my parents moved onto other relationships shortly after the divorce, I can honestly say I would not have been a happy kid if I was supposed to be their entire world while they waited for me to grow up and move on. I benefited greatly from their relationships with their spouses afterwards and, in the case of my step-Dad, he was way more "hands on" as a parent than my own Dad was (coaching my baseball team, fixing my car, being there when I needed him) and without that, I don't know where I would have been. I also had the benefit of both of my parents being a united front as well though. Pitting one parent against the other was NOT an option.

B) Wanting alone time every other weekend with your bf is wrong when you have kids? (She never said that btw- that was a conclusion that was not only jumped to but pole-vaulted to across the Grand Canyon).
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Oh, that's very cute! Nice imagery.

But I take it you missed the question mark I included at the end, which made it not a conclusion (as you wrongly concluded) but an actual question.

And yeah, I'll say that if you PREFER that you get every other weekend as adult with your BF at the expense of the kids (and remember, BF's daughter is clearly having some issues that indicate she is not getting the "individual time" with her father, despite LW's claim to understand the importance of it), then it's wrong.

I get that there are other reasons to want the kids on the same weekend: work schedules, caring for an elderly relative, uninterrupted time renovate living quarters safely. But since LW phrased it in terms of wanting them to learn to get along despite feeling like her son is being made into a scapegoat -- it doesn't look like there's a real pressing reason beyond wanting to be off parenting duty for two weekends a month.

Most parents need some time away from their offspring to recharge. Usually it's measured in terms of a weeknight adult softball league or weekly cooking course, a yearly girls long weekend, a Saturday morning golf game, or a guys trip to Vegas or to hunt/fish/see the Super Bowl -- not two weekends a month.


t

Lise, I realize my post didn't have any spacing in it so probably made it hard to read (copy and paste- grr!) but I was actually expressing my dismay at the very things you also seem to be expressing dismay at. I was quoting from a few posts from others (I purposefully did not name them because they are easy enough to find and didn't want to get caught up in the "he said,she said" that sometimes happens).

As for the being afraid of kids. I do realize there are people out there (not just children) that push the limits and seem to have no conscience but, for the most part, I do believe we are all reasonable people and it is only clear boundaries that are needed to keep us on the right track. I would never consider breaking up with someone who has children because their 9 year old starting to sass me and I fear they would someday take it to a criminal level. Good grief!

My father recently died from alzheimer's after spending 3 years in a nursing home here in my town. My mother died 3 years earlier and that immediately sent him in to dementia. We had moved my parents ot our town just so we could spend their last years with them. It wasn't easy. My dad was a loud intimidating bully and we all had issues with him. The disease made him quite a bit more mellow than he had been in earlier years, but he could still dish it out sometimes. A funny thing. When he got sick all the baggage and issues I had with him disappeared. No, I didnt keep him home and take care of him myself. I could not have done that and he would not have wanted it. The nursing home was fantastic and I went and sat with him often. The day I put him in hospice he was dozing and never fully awake. I was sitting there watching him and the aides came to clean nhim up and straighten his bed clothes. When they moved him, he woke up and when he saw me his eyes opened wide. He took my hand and squeezed it so hard. We stayed like that staring in each other's eyes for a few minutes. When the aides finished and laid him back down he let go of my hand and went back to sleep.That was the last time I saw him awake and he died the next evening. I would not trade that memory; the look in his eyes when he saw me, for anything. I treasure that time I had with him. But you know, people are different. I don't know that there is a wrong or right way. Everyone's situation is different. But, that's my story. Now? I miss the old goat! I really do.

THANK YOU Charliebug! My thoughts exactly.
Having experienced living in a blended family situation myself, I would imagine that on the weekends Dad's kids come to visit, he is leaving much of the "parenting" to step-girlfriend. Suddenly she's got double the childcare duties, yet limited decision-making ability when it comes to the kids. It's a recipe for resentment unless things change.
I'd advise her to remember that while she cares for these kids "as her own," they are NOT her own - and to make her own plans during some of the time they are visiting. Take her own kids out to dinner or the park WITHOUT the boyfriend's kids if all the kids are home that weekend. You won't be "leaving his kids out" - you'll be giving them some much needed alone time with their father. No room for "mom guilt" here - you are NOT the mom.
Dad went to court with his ex to ensure he'd have visitation rights - he should spend that time he fought for spending quality time with his kids. Spend *some* time all together, of course - but make it clear to dad that during his weekends with his kids, he needs to step up and be an attentive parent, and give his kids the attention they're craving from HIM.
Step parents should NOT be disciplinarians. That's a role for a primary parent. If the 9 year old sasses you, tell her that kind of talk is unacceptable in your house, but call in dad and tell him (courteously) he has a situation to deal with. Leave it up to HIM to determine the punishment.

Re: Charliebug
"I was actually expressing my dismay at the very things you also seem to be expressing dismay at."
I wasn't necessarily arguing, but sometimes adding to what you said. ;-D

"I do believe we are all reasonable people and it is only clear boundaries that are needed to keep us on the right track."
I do believe most people are relatively in good faith as well as honest most of the time... And, speaking as someone who sells retails to the public, that's saying a lot.

Your suggestion of staging a family meeting is a very good one, btw. We have no indication from the letter that the ex is particularly hostile or wants to stir trouble. Perhaps kiddo has already started spinning tall tales, hence the change of schedule.

And welcome BTL!

@jac
"Now? I miss the old goat! I really do."
That's because now that he is gone, you mostly dwell on the good times. That's normal.

Welcome BTL to you too, you've never posted before!

Re: Meggie
Hey, another new one! Welcome to you too!

I wonder if that would be the United Parenting Front of Judea or the Judean United Parenting Front? (<---geek)

LOL!

Test

Okay, I'll try to post again. Dumb computer.

LW1 - You said your mad that your BF "lets" his ex control this situation. She is their mother. She's not "just" his ex. You have no say in how their children are raised. You have no say in the deicisons they make for their children.

However, he also doesn't have the right to tell you how to raise your's either. He should not be denying his children's behavior and then tell you how to raise yours.

Please go to family counseling with your boyfriend. You need to learn how to make the household work. And if you have to, one of you can move out and live seperatly. You can still be together but just live seperatly until the kids are grown.

LW2 - Have you asked to have your desk changed? If not, do so. My mother used to have to share a space with a motormouth. 8 hours of nonstop yaking about herself, her kids, her family, the moon, the sky, etc. My mother stressed to her boss that she had a hard time getting her work done because of the talking. So the boss ended up moving the other girl. He moved her in with someone else, who later complained. He moved her again with another person and they complained, too. He then moved her into the basement. Alone. Just like the movie Office Space. So far she hasn't burned the place down.

Casey#16 and Jennylee #21, I have changed my mind and now agree with your assessment of the situation.

@Lisa Brouillette - as for a 9 year old's parent being able to control who she is with - it's not just the mom who thinks that she doesn't want her kid around LW's kid. Dad, the live in bf, apparently agrees with his ex-wife on this issue and finds fault with the LW's kid, too, justly or not. LW has zero standing here to contest any custody arrangements that BF and his ex make with regard to their kids.

I also get the strong impression that nobody's kids live with the LW or her bf since she says her 11 year old son "stays over", and doesn't say "when he's home". In that case, it seems like these folks could take a few days a week, every other week, to devote to their own children without making it a Brady Bunch weekend. I don't know why these kids need to be pals with each other. They're not step siblings, and it doesn't appear the LW is engaged to her bf or planning to marry him. I have to think that in 4 years, if LW loved her bf's kids so much, she would have made it a point to at least meet their mother. Then when they had parenting differences, they could talk to each other & clear up misunderstandings.

And why in the world is it so terrible to not want to listen to a person smacking and popping gum all day? Since when did it become unacceptable to want others to control themselves? And have enough quiet you can think and do your job well?

I bet in past decades people more often felt that way, they didn't want to be bothering others. Some here have complained a lot about how kids are allowed to do whatever they want so they won't be emotionally damaged, supposedly, and I agree. Looks like adults are getting that too and that's very bad.

Would you say the same thing if this same woman was stepping on your toes all day long? Oh, poor baby, she has the right to do that, can't say anything?

OK, I'm coming way late to the party today, so some of what I'm going to say concurs with what others have said, and some of it (I think) is new, but I'd have to go back through the whole BTL to give proper credit where credit is due on some of the stuff that simply concurs with others!

LW1 -- Some folks have assumed that the LW doesn't have primary custody of her children and only sees them on weekends. It is just as possible that she has primary custody of her children, it's just that every other weekend, her kids are with their father, and up until recently, her kids' scheduled weekend with her was the same as her BF's scheduled weekend with his kids. So, while I think it likely is a safe assumption that the reason she wants to keep the kids on the same schedule is so that she has every other weekend completely "kid-free," I don't think it's a safe assumption that she is not the primary custodial parent to her children. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't.

Some have suggested that part of the problem here is that the kids can never be sure this is a long-term, committed relationship since they're not married. Now, I'm a big believer in marriage, but this couple has been together for four years. That's pretty long-term in my book, but what isn't clear is how long they have lived together. Clearly, to one degree or another, the LW and her kids have been a part of the BF's and his children's lives for quite some time, so I have to wonder what "suddenly" happened that the ex no longer wants the kids to be in the same house.

Someone (I think it may have been Lise) noted that it actually is NOT the ex's purview to determine who can be in the house when her kids are there -- that actually, if she has a problem with this, she should go to court to have the visitation agreement amended. When I read that, I wanted to stand up and clap. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do think that a mother should have a say in who her children are exposed to -- but there are unreasonable exes out there who pull these kinds of stunts not because they actually have legitimate concerns but merely want to control their exes. I think the real key here isn't what the ex wants -- it's that the BF either agrees with her that the LW's children are a problem, or that the BF doesn't care enough to stand his ground. And the way it sounds is that he actually DOES agree with the ex (at least to some degree) that the LW's children are the problem. That being the case, either the LW isn't being honest with herself or the Annies about her children having some issues that she isn't adequately addressing, or her BF is unfairly judging her kids (and, in turn, her parenting skills). Can't say which one it is, but either way, it doesn't bode well for this relationship.

As for taking some time off from the dating pool -- as someone else said, I don't think that divorced parents have to wait until the kids are grown and out of the house before dating. But they DO have to put their children's well-being first. That means that they DO have to be a whole lot more choosey and careful about whom they date, whom they bring home (and when), etc. And they do have more complicated issues to iron out both before they move in with someone and/or marry someone and AFTER they move in with someone and/or marry someone.

LW -- you need to sit down with your BF and figure out what is really going on here. Does he really think your kids are a problem, or does he just not have enough of a spine to stand up to his ex? Or does he really just want more "alone time" with his kids? If you two are able to get to a point where you are on the same page, then it's time for him (or him and you, depending on the dynamics) to sit down with his ex to try to work things out. If you two are NOT able to get on the same page, then it's definitely time for you to reconsider the wisdom of staying in this relationship. Even though you two are not married, you are basically parenting together, which requires both of you to be on the same page. And in the meantime, please, please, please be absolutely certain you are using birth control properly. You are currently in no position to bringing another child into the mix.

I would never consider breaking up with someone who has children because their 9 year old starting to sass me and I fear they would someday take it to a criminal level. Good grief!
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Well, I don't believe anyone is suggesting LW break up because a 9 YO is sassing her and she should fear that will someday progress to criminal level.

They're suggesting she break up with him because of the boyfriend's response, or rather, lack of response to her sassing and other misbehavior while at the same time being hypersensitive to any transgressions by her kids.

That's uneven treatment that's not good for her kids. (His either, for that matter.) She is responsible for ensuring a healthy, safe environment. If he can't or won't change, she needs to get the kids out of there because the kids won't stay 9 and 11 forever, and as they age, the potential for much more serious transgressions and accusations increases.

LW1: If you guys have been dating for four years and you still haven't been able to integrate your families then walk away because you have wasted enough time on this failing relationship. You two are not on the same page or heck even the same book. Put your kids first and walk away.

LW2: I would have killed her by now so you must have the patience and tolerance of a saint. Kudos.

LW3: Oh for the love of God! Just because you could handle it doesn't mean everyone should.