Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW2 -
Tell them "I'm from Canada"? Why, you think all this rough living under the igloo makes our voices hoarse and gravelly? Gee, and here I was believing we have a few opera houses up here in the snowy wastes... I think you two mistakenly believe you are being funny. I'm not laughing.

@ Lise Brouillette
For some reason this reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live sketch with the Coneheads (Dan Aykroyd & Jane Curtin). I don't know if you ever saw it, but they were aliens with huge cone-shaped bald heads and were continually asked by random humans where they were from (the planet Remulak) to which they invariably replied "France".

Re: L1
When I was in the 5th grade an anti-smoking advocate brought a display to my school featuring two actual human lungs - a lung from a lifelong non-smoker and of course a heavy smoker's lung. The literally black shrunken smoker's lung made a huge impact on me. One look at it and I have never smoked. My best friend saw the same display and she's never smoked either. I will always be grateful to that volunteer and the families who donated their loved ones remains so that my classmates and I could have a chance for a healthier life.

LW2
I agree with the Annies. People are just curious and are trying to be friendly for the most part. Many people enjoy talking about where they are from and the attention they get when others try and identify their "accent" although clearly there a lot of folks who are annoyed by this type of questioning since they frequently write in for advice on how to stop it and similar rude inquiries from random strangers. You of course have no obligation to discuss the matter and no need to respond at all. You can just walk away, ignore them or give them one of the answers the Annies suggested. The other option is you could just tell them the truth, i.e., I have a speech issue that makes my voice sound this way. True it's none of their business, but what's the harm? It's nothing to be ashamed of so I don't see why it's such a big deal.

LW3
Not sure what to say here. Sorry you treated your wife and family like dirt and glad you saw the error of your ways in that regard. I don't know if you were really a sex/porn addict or not but you sound like you were brainwashed by the Christian right and indoctrinated with the standard repentance and salvation mumbo jumbo.

@Lise - Oversensitive much? You misunderstood the Annies - they said make up an UNLIKELY response - e.g. if someone has an "odd" accent, they can dumbfound the person asking by saying they are from somewhere where people sound pretty much the same as they do in the U.S. (yes I realize that parts of Canada speak French).

LW3/EstherGreenwood - wow thanks Esther! That's what I was a little afraid to say. I'm assuming a little bit here, but it sounds like LW3 turned his life around because he started to believe he had made "God" unhappy. Really? There's no other reason to stop hurting the people you love? Whatev.

LW2: You must develop a sense of humor and some at least neutral responses. Long time ago I had a friend from The Netherlands around for a year. She spoke perfect English but with a slight accent that always drew "where are you from" questions. She started replying "Delaware," because, she said, no one in America knew what Delawareans sound like. If I were you, I'd tell them I'm rehearsing for the role of the rabbit in Harvey. Or pick a remote place in another region -- like Supai, Arizona, Last Gasp, Wyoming, or Monson, Maine, and that will probably shut up the strangers. You can learn something about those places so if you want the conversation to continue, you'll have grateful things to say about the borrowed birthplace. Supai, for instance, located in the Grand Canyon, is the capital of the Havasupai Indian Reservation. Finally, you can simply ignore the question and follow the advice of actors whose fans throng: "Smile, always be a gentleman, and keep moving."

* * * * PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT * * * *

LW3 refers to the first letter on 15 October 2012.

LW1 - With the exception of 1 person, every smoker I have ever known said they wished they never started. Quite a few of them said they wished they could go back in time to the day they started and kick the crap out of their younger self before they reached for that first cig.

LW2 - Maybe it's just me but I don't find that question rude. It's not like you're asking someone their weight. I'm from New England and every now and then, people will ask me where I'm from because I'll say some words "funny." I don't mind...I just tell them. But if you're very annoyed by it, I would just tell them the truth and then change the subject, ie, "I'm from Jonestown. Did you see the Yankees last night?"

Re: EstherGreenwood
Coming from Brits, I would call that just typical animosity between the English and the French - it's only been ongoing since the Middle Ages... But coming from Americans, I find it particularly distateful (and ungrateful), considering France very much funded America's war of independence against Britain.

The USA is Canada's biggest trade partner. Whatever the US doesn,t buy from Canada would be twice the price because of transportation costs. And yet it would appear that many Americans have nothing but CONTEMPT for Canadians - like we're nothing but a bunch oh hillbillies, compared to the grrrrreat American civilisation. I would be curious to know how many of these xenophobic ingrates are the very same Americans who say "I seen" and who can't even point their own country on a map...

@Steve C
It's not whether or not the "response" is unlikely that is the problem, it's the fact that the Annies seem to think that pinning this on Canada is immensely funny. I don't think so - that was a slur, and one that's being spread over the entire planet at that. And if you think I'm being oversensitive, perhaps it is because it's not the first time (or the second or the third) that I hear such offensive yurunda. Let's put together some hilarious skit making it look like all Americans are members of the Flat Earth Society and Klu Klux Clan, and we'll see you funny YOU think it is.

Re: LWI – what I know about smokers is that they don't care – let God take them in due time!

Re: LW2 – I hate to say that I was right – The unfortunate bombing in Boston. Ruff!! I was “killed” for saying Bostonian's said “ruff” instead of “roof” but was unfortunately proved right after the Terrorist Attack. I heard it over and over… BUT we pray for justice!! Believe me, I am not being insensitive – I was as horrified as everyone else of the bombings.

Re: LW3 – “But there is light at the end of the tunnel” Hopefully the wives will figure this out long before any possibility of contracting an STD!

Re: Michelle
I don't find the question particularly rude either, and I get asked that all the time, especially outside of Quebec. I usually pronounce a word the way I learned it, which means whatever slight accent I have has traces of Irish, Yiddish, New York, possibly even Trinidadian, etc. Natives of Quebec just take for granted that I'm French. They're right, but I don't sport the typical "French" accent, either from Quebec or from France (they're different). Anyone from outside of the province will just be listening to me speak, wondering where the hell I come from, but taking for granted it's some anglophone place. Hee hee!

So no, it's not particularly offensive to be asked where I come from, not unless the question is preceded by some version of "My GAWD, but you speak funny." ;-D

LW2 - I think the LW is being a little overly sensitive, but I can also understand why constantly being asked the question can be annoying. Most people who ask are probably just trying to be friendly and make conversation, although the case of the stranger on the street asking was defintely rude and deserved the response the LW gave him. The Annies actually gave a pretty good answer - to pick a very unlikely place to have an odd accent, such as Canada or Washington, DC, and leave it at that. Or, of course, the LW could say "Mars" and walk away.

Re: LWI – what I know about smokers is that they don't care – let God take them in due time!

Re: LW2 – I hate to say that I was right – The unfortunate bombing in Boston. Ruff!! I was “killed” for saying Bostonian's said “ruff” instead of “roof” but was unfortunately proved right after the Terrorist Attack. I heard it over and over… BUT we pray for justice!! Believe me, I am not being insensitive – I was as horrified as everyone else of the bombings.

Re: LW3 – “But there is light at the end of the tunnel” Hopefully the wives will figure this out long before any possibility of contracting an STD!

Re: Kitty
I don't agree with including Canada in that. Enough Americans as it is already think "heh" is odd (it's bad enough with "ruff"... ;-D). I vote for Mars.

sorry for the double post! :)

Re: Lise Brouillette
OK - I'll leave out Canada :) It just that I've never thought of Canadians as having an accent (at least those that I know don't have one). No offense intended.

Re: Kitty
Actually we do have an accent, and even more than one... English Canadians speak differently whether they come from Vancouver, Toronto, the Maritimes or Montreal. In fact, Quebec English is actually recognised as a sub-variant like East Indian or Australian English, because of the French influence. Large American regions certainly all have their distictintive flavour, and people don't speak the same way in New England, California, Alabama or Texas... ;-D

Don't forget the Ottawa Valley Twang! For those that care, it's a combination of Scottish, Irish, French and hick accents (I'm allowed to say that because I'm from there). Think "Gidday" upon greeting someone, and yes, "eh" after basically every sentence. My own twang is quite mild- I grew up nearish the city, in an area that was boonies when I was a kid but is becoming increasingly suburban today- but even I've had people wonder about my accent. I've had people in Ottawa comment that I sound "American"- usually Wisconsin- and once in Toronto, someone asked if I was from South Carolina! When you meet people REALLY in the bush- like an hour or two out of Ottawa- the accent gets quite distinctive.

FWIW, I don't think the Annies are racist against Canada or anything (and I've met Americans that are). I took the comment more like poking fun at Americans themselves who might be confused to associate a distinct speaking pattern with an area, as mentioned above, that isn't "supposed" to have an accent. The idea seems to be to befuddle them long enough that you can get out of there and leave them to their "...Canada? Really?"

Re: Lise Brouillette - "So no, it's not particularly offensive to be asked where I come from, not unless the question is preceded by some version of "My GAWD, but you speak funny." ;-D"

Oh, I agree with you there, LOL! Where I used to live, some people would tell me that my words were "stupid" and that I talked "stupid." Well, I used to live in an area that had a horrible way of speaking. It was more bad grammer and smooshed words than an accent. They also had different words for things than the rest of the world uses. The trashy ones were the ones who spoke like that. I know it's bad to say, but it's the truth. The thicker the accent, the trashier they were, more than likely. This way of speaking was so absurd that someone published a comical book about it...kind of like a dictionary. Everyone in that area knows about this book. So if anyone from there told me I talked "stupid," I would say, "Well, my hometown doesn't have a book explaining what the heck I'm talking about. Your's does. So who's talking stupid?" Usually shut them right up.

LW2:
I wouldn't want to sound like Henry Kissinger - that's the part I'd be upset about!

This Canadian is not offended, nor did I read any of it as some inference that we live in igloos and don't have opera. In fact, to be offended by such an (imagined or real) inference is the real offence--suggests that he Inuit are somehow uncivilized. (Not that anyone LIVED in igloos, ever...i gather they were only ever constructed as temporary housing during a hunting expedition.)

(By the same token, I see nothing offensive in being asked from where one hails. Just say, "around the corner. I think you think you're hearing an accent. It's not, it's just a small speech impediment I have." If you want, tack on, "But I like it because it makes me sound tough and scary.")

Re: Lise Brouillette #17
I think the reason we don't notice accents that much in this area (Washington DC) is that almost NO ONE is actually FROM here. Natives are the exception, not the rule, and almost everyone has a different regional accent, so there really isn't a "Washington, DC" accent. It's a very common question to ask someone where they're from, not because of the way they speak, but because it's almost an assumption that they're from somewhere else. When someone asks me that question and I reply that I'm a "native", the response is usually, "REALLY??"

RE: LW3

Quelle surprise! Another letter to reinforce the man-hating agenda of Marcy Sugar and Kathy Mitchell. These two fat lards must have been dumped quite a few times to be so bitter towards the opposite sex.

Oh, and Gabe Glissmeyer (LW1) comes off like a pompous ass.

It's possible the LW does have an accent but doesn't hear it. Apparently, I've always had a heavy, mixed up accent that I cannot explain (I suppose I might be mentally retarded) but to this day, I still don't hear it. I usually ask people to imitate my "accent" and I always get different responses. Weird.

One of the reasons I moved to another country was because I got tired of being asked where I was from in my own country. Even after I told people that I was from the same place they were, they insisted I was from some place else. I ended up feeling like an outsider in my own home, so moving elsewhere wasn't very hard. Here, people have no real reference of my country so they never ask twice when I say I'm from so and so.

I hear the US are just obsessed with race, though. My sister, who has been living there since 2009, just might kill someone the next time some stranger asks her "Excuse me, what are you?" Her accent is the same as anyone in the US, however she stills gets stopped in the street all the time because she is "racially ambiguous". I bet the LW knows where these harmless little inquiries are coming from, and that must be the reason why he or she is so annoyed.

Lise:

I agree with just about everyone else here today – I do think you're a little sensitive when the Annies suggested the "I'm from Canada" (admittedly) out-of-left-field response. But it's at least safer than suggesting, "None of your goddamned business!"

Because unfortunately in this day and age, the buttinsky might then pull a golf club out of that trench coat of his and club you in the head. In other words, you don't know how the other guy will react – he may say, "Sorry" and move on ... or he'll be someone with a hair-trigger temprament and to continue to "make it my business" by doing something illegal.

Note that the Annies did say, "You can simply respond, 'Why do you need to know?' or 'I'm sorry, but I don't like to talk about it,' and keep moving." Would you have been happier if they had said just that? Keeping in mind this isn't the same question as a stranger asking, "When is that baby of yours coming?" "How much do you weigh?" "How 'come you have so much facial hair, woman?" and so forth.

LW1: I commend you for your work, but keep in mind that there may never be a 100-percent tobacco free society. There are always going to be kids who start smoking, because it's "cool," "mature," "adventurous" and "glamorous" (there's still plenty of persuasion out there to depict smoking as such) and then find out the hard way that it's anything but.

However, if you prevent one kid from lighting up, your work is successful.

LW3: I hope things have worked out for the better with you, and that you were able to get a few things (at least) back on track. Sometimes, when men look at, well, other women ... they end up hurting the women in their lives that matter the most: their wives. It's crazy that hindsight can sometimes make men see things that way ... that lots of damage resulted.

Never had a desire to smoke because at an early age I'd seen the damage that reckless smoking can cause. One of my dad's workers had the thumb and index finger only on one hand and the thumb, index and middle fingers on the other hand; he'd fallen asleep in a chair while smoking and watching TV - and he was still a fairly young an at the time (early 40s). His presence was a constant reminder of real dangers that I could see and understand even at age 6 or 7.

I'm constantly asked where I'm from - rather than what's my accent - because we moved a lot for government construction projects when I was a kid. I simply reply: born in the southeast, grew up in the southwest, lived in military impact areas and have a little of everyone's accent; when I'm in the north, I'm asked if I'm from the south; when I'm in the south, I'm asked if I'm from the north. You get the idea. No need to be pinning down exact locations, etc.

L1--I'm sorry but while your little anti-smoking campaign feels good and looks good it's also a lot like worrying about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. What about pollution? Any analytical analysis of common car exhaust not only reveals all of the same chemicals found in tobacco smoke, as well as dozens of other harmful chemicals, but at levels that are often hundreds if not thousands of times higher. Then let's talk about the vast quantities of hormones they're pumping into our beef and poultry. These have been linked to early puberty and feminization of boys. Finally, I'll throw in the fact that in the U.S. the current health care system is completely unsustainable and healthcare costs will soon inflate to a point where an entire generation is disenfranchised. The same can almost be said about the job market as more and more college graduates are finding themselves busing tables or living with their parents until they're thirty. But, at least they're not lighting up.

LW2--The next time some moron asks you where you're from, tell them a galaxy far far away. Then comment that you wish your mothership would beam you back up because obviously there's no intelligent life down here.

LW3--Oh yes, because porn is definitely to blame for your philandering and sleeping around. You're a pig who needs to take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming it on a disease.

RFE LW#1-----
OK, I'll go for noncontroversial today. YES, SMOKING IS BAD. IT CAN DO BAD THINGS TO YOU, AND IT IS EXPENSIVE. PEOPLE WHO DON'T SMOKE SHOULDN'T START, AND PEOPLE WHO DO SMOKE SHOULD TRY TO QUIT. I don't think there is a living person today that doesn't already know it's bad/harmful, unless they are people who are institutionalized because they are not capable of any rational thoughts.
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I'm trying to think if I know any teenager who didn't smoke because of something posted on a computer website. Maybe they are out there, I dunno.

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Re LW#2------
Or you could try the non-responsive answer thing--------someone says where are you from, you answer "Hi------isn't this a beautiful day?" Do it a couple times and they'll get the message.

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Re LW#3-------
I think whatever makes people do the right thing is great, but I sometimes wonder---------is it only possible to do the right thing because you are afraid some higher power will punish you after you die if you DON'T?
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I myself like the idea that you should be a good person just because that is what it takes if we are all to survive in this world that we are thrown together in. In fact, I guess I have greater respect for someone who does it because it's the right thing to do, and not because they are afraid they will go to hell if they don't. (Sort of a Golden Rule thing without the fear factor added.)
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That said, I do believe in a higher being, but I doubt my beliefs would pass any religious criteria. I don't think the world just threw itself together, because there are too many amazing, beautiful things in it. But it's based on what I believe, and probably what I WANT to believe, if I'm totally truthful.
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I doubt there is any 'one true' God who will punish those who believe in some other 'one true' God, or those who don't believe in ANY God but try to be the best person they can be anyway. The main thing is to be a decent human being, no matter how you come to that decision, I guess. (AND not to get smug and preachy. Can't believe 'God' wants that.)

PB, The young man obviously is very passionate about his campaign and a bit dramatic ," and ended up with an addiction that spiraled out of control, in many ways taking her childhood with it." I am not sure how it took her childhood but that is not his point. I think he should be given credit for finding a PC issue to advocate for. Please don't bash him - he is a man after all.
LW2; Thinking you are too thin skinned. Move 100 miles in any direction and you get a new accent (all over the world). Just ask Henry Higgins! When ask where you are from, tell them New York. Easy peasy and no ones feelings are hurt.

What's the big deal about saying you're from Canada? As everyone in the U.S. knows, Canada is a sparsely populated, backwater country with an inferior education system. The Annies nailed this one!

LW2 is offended by what should be a totally innocuous question because his "accent" isn't the result of where he grew up but rather the result of a speech impediment. While many people with speech impediments eventually learn to overcome them or learn to handle it with aplomb, many people with speech impediments are highly embarrassed about them and do not want anyone calling attention to them in any fashion. Clearly, LW2 is among this latter group, hence he is overly sensitive to questions about where he is from because those questions are being asked due to his speech impediment -- the very last thing for which he wants to be noticed and the very last thing he wants someone to point out or ask about. So, while I completely agree that the question "where are you from" shouldn't be offensive, this is someone who has probably struggled all his life to just "fit in" and not be noticed for his speech impediment.

@Kitty -- I lived in nation's capital. for several years, and you're right -- hardly anyone in D.C. is actually from D.C., so asking "where are you from" is just normal small talk there. Now I live in a different capital -- the retirement and vacation capital -- so hardly anyone here is "from here" either, so "where are you from" is also just normal small talk here, as well. LW2 signs himself as a Native New Yorker, and if he's referring to NYC, then that is another very transient place where many, many people are not originally from there -- but then again, if he's referring to NYC, the bigger surprise is that strangers are saying anything to him on the street at all! Regardless, as I noted above, the problem is that the LW is well aware of the fact that people aren't just randomly asking him where he's from (the way might legitimately happen in DC, regardless of accent, appearance, etc.) -- he knows they are asking because of his speech impediment, and it is something he is extremely sensitive about. Unfortunately, if he is an adult and he still hasn't learned to shrug this off, I'm betting he's never going to learn to shrug this off.

@Volpe -- You wrote "I hear the US are just obsessed with race, though." There is no question that the racial divide is still alive in America. We've made great strides, but we still have our share of racist idiots. One of the things that annoys me, however, is that many of the countries that look down their noses at the U.S. for its racial issues are countries that, by and large, have few or no issues with racism because those countries have so little diversity. If everyone in a given nation is one race, what are the odds that nation is going to have much in the way of racial upheaval? I do not blame you and your sister for being annoyed or even downright angry that people are/were always asking where you are from -- I'm sure it gets old. But please note that not everyone who asks this is a racist. Some of us are very proud of our nation's melting pot heritage and are fascinated to learn about someone else's heritage -- even if that heritage is from several generations back. I remember in 5th grade, we had a melting pot celebration, and the goal was to have as many countries from all around the world represented as possible. Each of us was assigned to bring an ethnic food from a country that one of our parents (or grandparents, great-grandparents, etc.) was from. To ensure as few duplicates and as much diversity as possible, we were asked to write down all the different nationalities we could claim through our family tree, then the teachers assigned us which of those nationalities we were to use when making our dish. I am Irish, Polish, Spanish, French, Austrian, Russian and German. I was assigned to bring something from Austria. I cannot now remember how many different nationalities were represented when we were done, but I know we spanned every continent (except Antarctica, I would guess), and it was a blast trying all the different foods. I am almost as likely to ask an obviously caucasian person with no discernible accent (to me -- we ALL have an accent, as it's all in the ear of the listener, is it not?) about their ethnic heritage as someone who appears (either through dress, custom, speech, what have you) to be from somewhere else simply because I am fascinated by that kind of thing. I'm not racist -- I just think it's fun to learn about this stuff.

But you are definitely right that the reason the LW is upset by these otherwise harmless inquiries is because he knows exactly what is prompting them -- his speech impediment, which is something he doesn't wish to be noticed. He takes it as an affront that people are pointing out something that makes him different.

But food for thought both for the LW and for you and your sister -- "different" doesn't automatically mean "bad" or "less than" or "second class." When I worked in a large office building, there was a woman who worked in one of the other offices whom I would occasionally see on the elevator. She didn't have an accent of any kind, but she was, as you put it, "racially ambiguous" -- I thought she was easily one of the most stunning women I have ever seen. I always wanted to ask her about her heritage, but I didn't because 1) I didn't even know her name -- just recognized her from seeing her around the building occasionally and 2) not even knowing her name also meant I didn't know how she would feel about me asking her about this, as I am well aware that for some people it is a touchy subject and consider it rude when others ask them about it. It's a shame, really, because had I asked her and she was NOT offended, not only might I have learned something fascinating about her heritage, but I might also have made a new friend. Instead, because I knew there was a distinct possibility that she would take the question the wrong way, I never asked.

Ah yes! To offend and be offended - that's the theme for today. Lise gets all bristly because the Annies used Canada as a place to say you're from (and the only way to be offended by that is to assume that you can read deep and nefarious meanings in their little brains) and Esther Greenwood insults every Christian on the planet by presuming to know their politics, i.e. "the Christian right."

Meanwhile, the Annies neglect the last thirty years of government directed tobacco policy by saying "The cigarette companies do an excellent job of recruiting new smokers" - and I'd like to know how they're doing that now that they can't advertise on television, radio, print, or billboard. Fifty years ago wa a different story. Smoking was portrayed in movies as seductive, cool, dangerous, etc. So LW1 is on a do-good campaign - that's better than a do-evil campaign, but since kids who start already know it's illegal - and that's part of the draw - I'm not sure how much it's going to help.

Oh - and I think a skit showing every American as a member of the Flat Earth Society AND the KKK would be hysterically funny.

With respect to Lise and the other Candians BTL -- I assumed that the whole point of saying "I'm from Canada" is because Canada is so close to home and (in some ways, anyway) so similar to home, that it would be tantamount to saying, "actually, I was born in that hospital right across the street." I don't think the Annies thought this would be hysterically funny, I think the Annies thought this would throw people for a loop while subtly telling them they're being rude.

Now, if you are offended because you hate the thought of Canada being considered as similar to the U.S., well, sorry about that. I'm afraid there are plenty of people around the world (not just in the U.S.) who think Canada is somewhat similar to the U.S. Some, no doubt, consider it a slur, others a compliment, and still others just something true that is neither positive nor negative.

As for the whole Conehead bit, where they said they're from France -- I think that was supposed to be more a play on the ignorance of Americans, than a jab at France. The point isn't that "gee, that makes sense, French people DO sort of have cone-like heads." The point is that only an idiot would ask an extraterrestrial where they are from and accept "France" as a truthful answer.

And yes, I'm well aware of who Lafayette was and where he was from. Ditto for L'Enfant. Pretty sure the U.S. has been known to come to France's aid every now and again, too. Sheesh.

Re: Lise Brouillette #9
I don't find those skits to be a slur toward the French in any way shape or form. If anything, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment on the U.S. tendency to see France as exotic and also the tendency to just accept a pat explanation no matter how absurd (all of us, not just those in the US).

LW1 - Not so much where I live. I almost never see anyone smoking nowadays.

LW2 - Best response I ever heard: "The moon."

@Jennylee regarding LW3 - Whatever a person needs to make themselves better. If they choose to rely on a higher power for that path, by all means they should.

I will take the earnestness and activism of a 19 year old campaigning to make people's lives better or to improve the world, no matter how clumsy or ineffective the attempt might seem, over the tired cynicism and anonymous sniping that so categorizes the internet age, any day of the week.

People like LW1 will absolutely find a way to make a positive impact on the lives of those around them, as long as they can learn to ignore the banal negativity of those who simply want to sit on the sidelines and insult anyone who has ideals. The very last thing we need is one more person that thinks they're somehow "cool" or "smart" by being a negative nancy, and to spend their time tearing down the people who want to do something other than just sitting on the sidelines and tossing around insults.

Lise might not be so sensitive to criticism on here if she had more to occupy her time -- you know, like, say, a job.

I thought the Annies were suggesting "I'm from Canada," was because he was from Canada (they knew from the postmark). Could be wrong, but it is possible.

Lots of people getting offended, but the game's on for trashing LW3 for having his religious convictions.

I suggest that the person who doesn't want to answer inquiries about his unique voice be honest, and say- "are you making fun of the way I speak?" to people who inquire where he is from. They probably think he comes from an interesting place where people have an interesting accent. But he thinks they are insulting him and making fun of him. So if he puts it out there, they can then assure him that no, they are not making fun of him, or they can slink away, properly put in their place.
I think perhaps he is seeing harm where none is intended, because some inquisitive people may have have bad intentions. So now he is assuming ALL who ask have bad intentions. I come from a large midwestern city, with interesting people from everywhere. When I was a school kid, we always asked everyone what their ethnic background was, and we were all proud of our own. Offence was never taken; it was our social convention. If the LW has moved to a place with the custom to inquire about background, then this may come up all the time, and I can see why he would be unhappy. Perhaps he could adopt a sense of humor and say something like-"Geez- the guy from witness protection said this wouldn't be an issue here!"
LW3- So, this guy has an epiphany about being a sex addict, gets help, and tries to make amends. Then he has the nerve to put information out there, so others know that help is available, and two posters pile on about him being a right wing phony Christian. Keep up the hate, you two. It's so attractive.

Um, guys? LW3 said "a spiritual path to God"...no mention of being a Christian until Esther brought it up.
I'm thinking he was probably just a horndog who repented (after he was caught), and figures it's easier to get forgiveness by calling it an addiction.
@Esther: Wow, hostile much?

Bloom Hilda (I mean Prince Pride) - WTF is your problem? I realize that you are a troll and I should not feed you but to make fun of someone who was hit by a car and disabled is disgusting. I certainly don't always see eye to eye with Lise but you try getting hit by a car and see how much you work after that.

@Patty Bear -- agree with you that LW2 is being offended where no offense is likely to be intended. I also grew up just outside a large midwestern city, and as I posted earlier, I have just always been interested in where people came from, even if we're taking about many generations back -- maybe it's a Midwestern thing! :) The only problem with "are you making fun of the way I speak?" is that it is potentially as confrontational/rude as "none of your business," which the LW has already tried and, apparently, didn't like. Honestly, I think the LW is highly sensitive and/or embarrassed about his speech impediment and just hates it when anyone says anything that points out that speech impediment, regardless of whether the person really is making fun of him or whether the person is just trying to be friendly and make conversation. It is very easy to tell this guy, "look, they're just trying to be friendly and make conversation," but I suspect that the LW has been sensitive about his speech impediment for a very long time, and it's going to take a lot more than just hearing "they don't mean anything by it" for him to get over this. He has likely spent a lifetime being embarrassed by this -- it's hard to shed a lifelong hurt.

Repentance is often misunderstood. It is not simply being sorry, but involves "turning from" the activity. A total 180. If Christianity (if that is what he was referring to) led him to repentance, why are so many people hostile to that idea? Why would it matter to you? He is happy, his wife is happy. Why would it matter to you????

This page would light up with hostile acrimony if someone would voice unacceptance of the gay lifestyle, but it is now popular to bash Christians.

There is a whole lot of hurt out there.

Hey Lisa, thanks for taking the time to respond to my comment. Just to be clear I never said I believe people who ask about one's race are racists, just obsessed with race, which, in all respect, is a bit of a waste of time, unless you're working on your human studies thesis. My country has influences from many places and everyone looks different, yet we only consider ourselves from there and nothing else. I guess it must be quite nice and interesting to know that you have distant relatives from all sorts of places, yet, personally, I don't think there's any merit in obsessing over this. To me, being from a certain country has a lot more to do with genes. I think it's quite curious that many US people, "proud" as they might be for being born or raised in the US (as if being born a certain place ever took any effort from anyone), feel the need to bring up where their ancestors are from. Sometimes I get on US celebrities' Wikipedia pages and amuse myself by learning that so and so has ancestors form 11 different countries by his or her father's side. What difference does it make having genes from one country yet being raised in a completely different culture? I know might come off as rude, but I'm asking an honest question here. My physiognomy could resemble that of an Arab's, and if I get asked on the street on a day when I'm not feeling particularly introverted, I could tell you that my nose looks Arab, but what would it matter, seeing that I know little to nothing of the Arab culture? I think certain people might benefit from easing up on the identity crisis once in a while and try not to complicate things. Not trying to be rude, just giving an outsider's view on the subject.

JustBecause wrote:

"Bloom Hilda (I mean Prince Pride) - WTF is your problem? I realize that you are a troll and I should not feed you but to make fun of someone who was hit by a car and disabled is disgusting. I certainly don't always see eye to eye with Lise but you try getting hit by a car and see how much you work after that."

1. I'm not Bloom Hilda.

2. I'm not making fun of her for being in a car accident. Is she LEGALLY disabled? Because she has claimed to work 50+ hours per week on here on her jewelry (?) business. So she CAN work.

As for my sister, who shares my parents and looks nothing like me, I have no idea why her eyes look the way they do or her skin is the color it is. So far, I haven't felt the need to ask her what race is she.

Re: Michelle

You know two now... who don't wish they had never started smoking. It's like booze or McDonalds or whatever - just don't have it all the time. I alternate between a love affair with real cigarettes and my e-cigarette. Oral fixation they call it :P

Re: Lise B

I wasn't offended by the Annies, either. I thought it was to poke fun at "ignorant Americans who may not know better". Even if it wasn't - making fun of an accent is relatively painless anyway (not like comparing the US to the KKK at all!)

Re: Jers

I didn't know you were from Ottawa! Howdy neighbour!

Re: Jpp

The Inuit ARE uncivilized. Why would any civilized person want to live there. I am joking - I think we are all morons for living here when it's snowy and cold during the winter. Honestly! Who settled here and decided: "yes, this is perfect".

I do like your idea of saying that it's a small speech impediment. A) it's the truth (and not a big deal) and b) it might encourage people to think twice before asking that kind of question (which is not necessarily rude but anyway).

Re: Bobaloo

Honestly I've always found that "why do you need to know" respond/question to be SUPER odd. Does anyone say that in real life? In can only serve to embarrass the asker. Which is fine they are being really ignorant or purposefully rude, but they aren't so why do that to someone.

LW3 -

Sorry, pal, but you aren't a helpless sex addict. You are a dirty cheater entirely capable of making your own choices.

Re: Danielle

Because it's a cop out. I'm glad it worked for him, but that's the laziest, most dishonest-to-yourself way to fix your problems. Christians have caused a lot more harm than gays ever have. So yeah. I'm not too worried about hurting their feelings.

Please don't feed the trolls. All these "issues" have already been addressed anyway, and they know it -- it's only petty muck-raking to bring them up again.

Moreover, there's absolutely no need for any of us to be insulting any other poster in such a personal way - it's just the nasty, vicious tactic of a sad, small mind with no more useful way to occupy their time. Even in a forum for entertainment, there's no room for this, and similar comments have been deleted and gotten the forum shut down in the past.

Since these people actual enjoy stirring up trouble for whatever nonsensical reason they try to justify themselves with, the only conclusion is to starve them of the attention they so desperately seem to need and crave.

Most of us have been enjoying the more adult back-and-forth of recent weeks; it's only one or two pathetic souls who want to go back to the personal vendettas and fights -- for their own amusement.

Don't let them hijack the discussions. They're not worth one more second of our time.

Writing a 4 paragraph block of text on why we shouldn't feed the trolls, IS feeding the trolls. Just sayin'.

Mike H is right.

Don't let the trolls hijack the discussion.

Let's all focus instead on Lise B and her outrage on the Annies mentioning the word "Canada".

Let's keep it all about her.

Re: Volpe #24
Gets stopped in the street? By PERFECT STRANGERS demanding a DNA report? Good flamin' grief. Tell your sister to move to Montreal, and you follow right behind her. As many that there are things that are wrong with this place, this ain't one of them. Plenty of Latinos here, and nobody calls them Chicanos. Lots and lots of interracial unions too, and nobody even bats an eye.

Mind you, I did have the very occasional enquiry about my ethnicity when I was dyeing my hair black (at least at the end of summer when my skin has turned copper), but people usually waited until they were talking to me for some reason before they asked. They would wonder if I was a Spaniard, Arab, South-American (;-D) or some kind of exotic Asian, but they never figured out I was Native! Hee hee.

The ex-LOML keeps being mistaken for a Latino, but only when he wears a hat. With the leather hat, he looks like a Columbian drug lord, without the hat he looks like a terrorist. :-D But that's because of the long hair and the olive skin - keeps being stopped by the cops even though he's doing nothing wrong! (The cops here are just as racist and profiling-to-the-hilt as they are anywhere else - a little less brutal though.)

@Bobaloo #25
"But it's at least safer than suggesting, "None of your goddamned business!"
But at least that is accurate. It IS none of their damn business. How nosy can people get, and entitled too, to think that they're owed an answer? I'm speechless. Well, not quite. I would recomment a chilly "I don't have to answer to that" and not "I don't like to talk about it", as if there was something shameful or traumatic about the whole thing...

"Would you have been happier if they had said just that?"
As a matter of fact, yes!

@Chris #27 & Paul W #35
The next time some moron asks you where you're from, tell them a galaxy far far away. Then comment that you wish your mothership would beam you back up because obviously there's no intelligent life down here."
"Best response I ever heard: "The moon.""
LOL!

About LW1, Chris, I agree with you that it's an uphill battle, but he seems passionate enough about it that it might just save a few kids from picking up that destructive addiction and developing cancer or emphysema later on. He could spend his time on something worse IMHO.

@Red #30
I hope you're being extremely ironic, although I don't see a smiley face... If you're not and you really do mean it, then you are the embodiment of what I'm complaining about, and there is a word missing from your user-name.

@Lisa #31
"Many of the countries that look down their noses at the U.S. for its racial issues are countries that, by and large, have few or no issues with racism because those countries have so little diversity."
I have known enough people from enough countries and ethnicities to know that, while racism exists in America, the rest of the world is generally much worse. I won't identify any groups, but there are some out there who are extremely and openly racist, and have absolutely nothing against the idea of discrimination - as long as it's not done against THEM, which would be a heresy of course, because THEY are the superior race. (Oye)

And... from what I have largely been able to see, the main reason why many countries are annoyed with the US is not so much because the US has its own share of racial issues, but rather because the US govenments (plural) have a history of being so holier-than-thou and self-righteous about human rights and equality, and arrogant about telling people how to live, all the while not being such saints themselves. When you throw the first stone, you had better make sure you are sinless yourself. You lose a lot of moral high ground when you suffer from a case of pot & kettle yourself!

"He takes it as an affront that people are pointing out something that makes him different."
Not to mention the entitled assumption that he owes them a medical report on his condition. What is he, public property, with no right to privacy? My God, but this is so very RUDE, and self-absorbed, like everything is owed to them, solely because they *want to know*!!

#33
"Now, if you are offended because you hate the thought of Canada being considered as similar to the U.S., well, sorry about that. I'm afraid there are plenty of people around the world (not just in the U.S.) who think Canada is somewhat similar to the U.S. "
And they're right, Canada IS very similar to the US. Same lifestyle, slightly different type of democracy, same separation of church and state, pretty much the same values, but no second Amendment. Pretty much the same climactic variations, except for a few extremes - we have arctic conditions, you don't, you have deserts, tornadoes alleys and hurricanes, we don't. And no Yellowstone super-volcano to feed the doomsayers!

A lot of Canadians (especially in Quebec of course) are of the opinion that the main difference between Canada and the US is Quebec, although I can think of a few Prairie Canadians who would take strong exception to THAT... ;-D

As to whether or not the comparison between the US and Canada is insulting, well, I guess it would depend on what the speaker thinks of either - The insult could go both ways, you know. ;-D

@Maggie Lawrence #32
"Lise gets all bristly because the Annies used Canada as a place to say you're from"
Yes, because sometihng in the speech the listener doesn't like means it comes from Canada? It would be just as offensive if they had suggested the Ozark mountains - for both the Ozark mountains and the LW.

As to their "little brains", people who utter such arrant stupidities are not known for thinking much, so you're right about that!

"Oh - and I think a skit showing every American as a member of the Flat Earth Society AND the KKK would be hysterically funny."
Only if Americans were the ones saying it! Any country in the world showing that, and most Americans would be so highly insulted that it would reach diplomatic incident proportions. ;-D (Now that I think of it, seems to me it has happened before...)

As a matter of fact, there HAVE been skits on Canadian telly showing us saying "heh" every three seconds, wearing a flannel plaid shirt and living in an igloo. But that's called laughing at yourself, and especially at the way idiots are perceiving you. In the category of "we can say it, you can't". The minute someone ELSE says it, then it's not funny anymore because it becomes stereotyping.

@Mike H #36
CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP, bravo, bravissimo!

So let me get this straight...
It is NOT ok to bash:
homosexuals
Canadians
people who think dog spit is clean and sanitary
But it is ALWAYS ok to bash:
people who belong to an organized religion, or have faith in general
Why is it that everyone must walk on eggshells around certain controversial topics lest they offend someone, yet finds it acceptable to bash people of organized religion? Why the double standard?

Re: Stacey

Because overall, religion sucks, and has done some very evil stuff. And still is. And people who get carried away with it are CRAZY and have 10 kids and aren't willing to accept any responsibility for themselves (see LW3). And the idea that you can't be nice unless you fear punishment if you aren't? It's terrible.

That doesn't mean that everyone who is religious is bad. Most of them are normal, reasonable people who are religious to a certain extent, because they were brought up that way. That said, it's always weird to me when someone religious says they are religious, but they don't agree with this, that or the other (whatever crazy thing their religion is supporting or banning - birth control, gay marriage, covering up sexual abuse, etc etc). But anyway, I digress.

Stacey, don't forget MEN.

It's encouraged to bash MEN around here.

It's hard to be a white Christian man these days. Especially if you're straight. Poor, poor straight Christian white men. I kid, I kid. It's not "really" ok to make fun of them but I can't get too upset about it.

Zoe is right.

Racism is wrong, unless the victim is white.

Sexism is wrong, unless the victim is male.

Religious discrimination is wrong, unless the victim is Christian.


Makes complete sense.

Volpe: "...obsessed with race, which, in all respect, is a bit of a waste of time, unless you're working on your human studies thesis. My country has influences from many places and everyone looks different, yet we only consider ourselves from there and nothing else. I guess it must be quite nice and interesting to know that you have distant relatives from all sorts of places, yet, personally, I don't think there's any merit in obsessing over this."
*****
To be fair, Volpe, I don't believe that as a country we're "obsessed" with this, but I'd guess it's more a factor in a relatively young country than it is in an older culture, and perhaps more of a factor of when and how we were settled. People who left on their own, seeking a better life, often't speak English, and so they clustered together with others they could communicate with, which led to development of places like "Little Italy" and "Chinatown" and "Germantown". They joined churches that offered worship in their native tongue, started newspapers in that language, and formed organizations to help newcomers from their homeland acclimate more easily.

Is Spanish the dominant language where you are? If so, you may have people from many different places who at least share the basics of a language...and today, if people are being transferred to jobs abroad by their company, there's a good chance that either they speak the language because they studied it in school.

Our kids studied German in school in part because my great-great grandparents came from Germany in the 1800s; the three German students we hosted were all delighted to find that our ancestors came from that same region of Germany that they lived in, and that we might have been related, however tenuously. They also enjoyed the Native American festival we took them to (our city has numerous ethnic festivals -- we look for any excuse to throw a party in summertime!) and were sorry to have missed the International Folk Fair.

It's mostly a chance to learn more about how other people live, what they eat, how they build, how they farm or otherwise support themselves. I think a reminder that my story goes back beyond the United States is a helpful thing to bear in mind.

Mike H: "I will take the earnestness and activism of a 19 year old campaigning to make people's lives better or to improve the world, no matter how clumsy or ineffective the attempt might seem, over the tired cynicism and anonymous sniping that so categorizes the internet age, any day of the week."
******
Yes! There are plenty of good, solid choices out there when it comes to how to make the world a better place. I want people to fight pollution AND smoking. To crusade against child abuse AND against irresponsible pet ownership. To raise money for research to cure breast cancer and ALS and Alzheimer's. To upgrade the local park to accommodate kids with disabilities, and to make the downtown area more walkable for senior citizens. To grant wishes to kids who are terminally ill, and to help feed and shelter the homeless and help teach illiterate adults to read.

And of course, choosing to become an advocate for one cause doesn't keep anyone from doing what you can to help the others: i.e., it's possible to be working against teen smoking while at the same time choosing to do what you can to reduce, reuse, recycle. recycle,

Mike H: "I will take the earnestness and activism of a 19 year old campaigning to make people's lives better or to improve the world, no matter how clumsy or ineffective the attempt might seem, over the tired cynicism and anonymous sniping that so categorizes the internet age, any day of the week."
******
Yes! There are plenty of good, solid choices out there when it comes to how to make the world a better place. I want people to fight pollution AND smoking. To crusade against child abuse AND against irresponsible pet ownership. To raise money for research to cure breast cancer and ALS and Alzheimer's. To upgrade the local park to accommodate kids with disabilities, and to make the downtown area more walkable for senior citizens. To grant wishes to kids who are terminally ill, and to help feed and shelter the homeless and help teach illiterate adults to read.

And of course, choosing to become an advocate for one cause doesn't keep anyone from doing what you can to help the others: i.e., it's possible to be working against teen smoking while at the same time choosing to do what you can to reduce, reuse, recycle. recycle,

Zoe, I'll have to debate you a bit on the "religion sucks" statement. I know you're just tossing that out without a lot of thought, but I'm quite sure it comes from a larger belief (or maybe I should say "nonbelief") Without debating the difference between a cult and a religion, I'm going to say that the things which have given any religion with a bad name - a bad name - are the human failings behind it: love of power, greed, status-seeking, etc. (Cults, of course, are ALL about power but I don't see that they have much really to do with God).

But those weaknesses are not the tenets of the religion - those are the negatives that people who want power bring to the table under the guise of the religion. Religion is not the reason people do (fill in the blank) or act like (fill in the blank). Religion is often the excuse that people use - and many of those people hold high office in the religion itself for that very reason. In other words, it's not God's fault what people do in His name.

It's an endlessly debatable topic, of course, but my own personal view is that a belief that strengthens people spiritually and makes their lives a positive force on earth is a good one. A belief that causes pain and opens the paths to evil is not. Actually, pretty simple.

Stacey, exactly. I am never offended personally. There will always be hypocrites in every facet of life to include Christianity, but I know so many genuine and faithful people who are walking the walk. They light up a room with their generosity and kindness. It pains me to think there are people who haven't experienced this. Peace to each and every one of you.

@Zoe:

Your argument is 'religion sucks, and has done lots of evil things'. A lot of evil things go on in this world every day...not sure religion is solely responsible for that.

Way to paint with a broad brush--oh and I know people who are crazy AND have 10 kids they don't take responsibility for, AND they are not religious. What explains that scenario?
Princess Bride has it right on post #55.

Re: Maggie

Actually, I thought about it before I said it, thinking "do I really want to make such a broad statement?" and then I decided that yes, I do. Religion (as we most commonly know it) is responsible subjugation of and discrimination against gays, women, children. Many, many people have been tortured, killed or denied their own beliefs and even their names in its name. A lot of these crimes were committed by people who were just jerks to begin with, but religion gave them a reason, a name and an excuse for it all and many normal people committed atrocities as part of this "hive mentality". And not that long ago!

On a more personal note I think that the whole institution does suck because the idea of a textbook God is ridiculous to me, but that's not what prompted that comment.

I did purposely make the distinction that most religious people are more or less normal. However, those people (like my grandparents) take religious doctrine with a grain of salt. They pull the good things they want and ignore the crazy things that the church teaches (anti-gay marriage, anti-birth control not that long ago) which doesn't make sense to me. You can't half believe in a religious! Well, evidently you can, but the religion itself is still sucky. Decent people make it decent.

It's kind of like if I said that Walmart sucks. Most of the people who work there are normal, fine people who just need somewhere to go to every day. But the institution does bad things in the name of good.

Re: Stacey

"A lot of evil things go on in this world every day...not sure religion is solely responsible for that."
Correct, which is why I did NOT say "religion is responsible for ALL the evil things, ever, in the whole world." Do you deny that many atrocities were committed in the name of religion?

"oh and I know people who are crazy AND have 10 kids they don't take responsibility for, AND they are not religious."
Again, that is why I didn't say "ONLY religious people have 10 kids". Do you deny that many fiercely Christian families in the US/Canada have large families?

Regarding post #55, I didn't read past the first line, so thanks! ;)

@Maggie Lawrence post #59...this is what I am trying to convey.

@JustBecause #40
Thank you. Actually, I could work some salaried job, but unfortunately it would appear that all the ones I could do well enough to earn my paychecik are closed to me for one reason or another.

My most markettable work experience is for office work. I did have a job when I was hit by that car. Unfortunately, by the time I had healed, I had been unemployed for three years and I was over 50. A double-whammy when it comes to employers - anyone not employed for years is like coming out of jail as far as they're concerned, and they don't want to hire people over 50 who, in their eyes, are going to be riddled with health problems, too "set in their ways" to learn anything new and close to retirement. Lots of prejudices out there.

I am competent to work in a store. I know plenty about fashion, fabric and fit (I used to work in the garment trade) I'm perfectly bilingual and then some, I have plenty of experience selling retail. But stores only hire young people, preferably slim and attractive, because it improves business. You're only allowed to be older when you're the owner of the place. Sad, but true. I would love to try opening a store of my own and I know what I'm doing, but I don't have the money for the openings costs.

And, although I am as healed as I'll ever be, I do have sequels. I cannot work a job where I'll be standing on my feet all day long. So Dollarama is out, Greeter at Walmart is out, most cashier jobs are out (not to mention that I have no training and no experience)... as are most jobs in a store.

I could technically work as a translator, but to do it from home, I would have to be able to prove my competence to potential customers, and I have no diploma. I acquired my proficiency through practice, studying on my own and a natural gift for languages. If I go by some translations I've seen, I'm more competent than many accredited translators but, as it stands now, my qualifications are only good enough to get me hired as a translating secretary, where the employer gets a translator for the price of a secretary... and we've back to office jobs and my chances there.

Hence having to fall back on what used to be a side-line, after being a self-sufficent hobby. I consider myself lucky I have at least that, even if it's a very hard life, plus living in a country where the social net exists, even if no one can live solely on what the government gives you.

Re: Danielle #42
I think what a lot of people are reacting to is the widespread hypocrisy that so many have witnessed,with some people professing to be so Christian on the one hand, and committing very evil deeds on the other, not to mention being guilty of the most despicable intolerance in the name of Christ, all the while thinking it's perfectly okay to be more vicious than a demon because they can always ask for forgiveness and pennance. I've certainly seen plenty of that with the nuns when I was in boarding school. Charitable they were not.

There are Christians who are genuine Christians, in the sense that they sincerely try to live by the Golden Rule, and I have seen some. But in my personal experience, they have been the exception rather than the rule.

Yes, there IS a lot of suffering out there. But also a lot of false repentance. I do not know which category the LW belongs to, which is why I didn't comment on him.

@Volpe #43
You're perfectly right that being racist and obsessed with race are two different things, although there will be cases where they overlap... ;-D And you're not being rude at all.

#45
ROTFLMAO!

@Toad Prince #44
And because I'm not "legally" disabled means I'm perfectly hale? I'm doing what I can what what I have, and perfectly legally too, which is more than a lot of people can claim.

So as far as you're concerned, it doesn't count as real work if I'm not paid by someone else, and it doesn't count as real sequels and limits, unless it falls within the governmental standards. Whether it be an official paper acknowledging my disability or an official pay-check from an employer, I think you grant far too much importance to PAPER. As if no amount of suffering or work counts for anything outside a written perimetre.

You never say anything about yourself, never offer and personal anecdotes, you only post to attack the Annies and me. I would be curious to know if you're not another Bloom Hilda, who hated me so much, not because of anything I say or do, but because she saw herself. I suggest you get a life. At least *I'm* trying to.

@Zoe #46
I wasn't comparing it to associating Americans with the KKK per se, I was giving an example of a generalisation that would be highly offensive to most Americans. In my usual opera-dramatic way, of course. ;-D

"Honestly I've always found that "why do you need to know" respond/question to be SUPER odd. Does anyone say that in real life? In can only serve to embarrass the asker. "
I've used it. With a soft voice and a smile, it works very well. And if that makes them embarassed, that's what they get for asking questions that are none of their business to start with.

And besides, there is always a matter of context. As part of a light, getting-acquainted-with, chit-chatting conversation, and asked with a soft voice and a smile, with a tone, facial expression and body language that express interest in the person, it's not so bad. But point-blank confronting a perfect stranger you've stopped on the street with the only purpose of shooting that question? Oye vey. Clods like that don't deserve to be spared, and the only reason I don't advocate "None of your goddamned business" is because it could be dangerous.

@Zoe, looks like enough of us fed the troll today where a reminder seemed pertinent, that's all. But rest assured, I'll go back to my usual avoidance of the topic, because it really is obvious that it's a waste of time to give certain posters the attention, you're correct about that.

Lise,

I am sorry that you are disabled and unemployed.

Many people are without jobs right now. My FIL was laid off from his job. He had worked there for 24 years. I guess they knew that they could pay the younger boys less. My FIL has basically been unemployed for nearly three years. He has a lot of experience but he feels his "age" factors in.

To anyone who feels inclined to make stabs at Lise or anyone else who is down on their luck: Hard times do NOT discriminate.

@hedgehog, #57, amen, and agree completely that focusing on one cause doesn't necessarily mean you don't care about other causes, or that you can't also help out with another cause from time to time. Every little bit helps.

Re: Volpe - "As for my sister, who shares my parents and looks nothing like me, I have no idea why her eyes look the way they do or her skin is the color it is."

LOL! I can relate! My brother and I look NOTHING alike. We are the complete opposite of each other - physically. He looks like our Dad's mother (light hair, eyes and skin) and I look like our Mom's side (Italian). I cannot tell you how many people have looked at me all shocked and said, "YOU'RE his sister???" Many people have asked if we're half brother and sister. Every now and then, I'll joke to the shocked person and say, "My parents visited two very different cabbage patches."

@Volpe -- and thanks for your equally thoughtful response. I appreciate that we are capable of discussing this without getting personal, offended, etc. I think, as someone pointed out, that perhaps part of the issue here is the use of the word "obsessed" and there IS a pretty negative connotation in the use of that word. Of course, some folks ARE obsessed -- pick any supremacist group as an example, and not only are they obsessed, they are dangerous. But I don't think being interested in one's own or other people's ethnic backgrounds has to be a pointless obsession. I listed off the various ethnicities in my background, and there's a goodly number of them. Because they are from a number of generations back, I certainly do NOT claim to have personal experience/knowledge of these various cultures. I don't speak a lick of Polish, Russian, German or French, although I was briefly quasi-fluent in Spanish (and quickly lost it when I graduated from high school and hardly ever used it). I hardly feel I'm obsessed with this -- if I were, I'd be finding a way to mention my ethnic background every time I post something here. If I were obsessed with this, I'd be spending a whole lot more time on sites about these various ethnicities and sites like Ancestry.com than here at the BTL. If I were obsessed with this, I'd be asking everyone I meet where they're from. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe you were disparaging me or singling me out as being "obsessed," but it sounds like you may be taking a somewhat common (in the U.S., anyway), usually harmless, passing interest in ethnic backgrounds for "obsession." And "obsession" can be negative -- and even dangerous in many cases.

And I do understand why you might find it laughable. I know a guy who is very proud of his ethnic roots. I am not going to say which country, because that is beside the point. But he STRONGLY identifies with this country -- has a flag at his desk from this country, often wears clothing that indicates this as his country of origin, donates money to charities/foundations for that country (and for the record I don't think there's anything wrong with that and don't mean that to be a tirade about "charity should start at home, or at least closer to it than a continent away"), has a stated preference for dating women who are also "from" this country (I use the quote marks there because they don't have to be "fresh off the boat" -- even a few generations back would be OK with him) etc., etc., etc. If you didn't know him well, you'd think he moved here from that country or, at the very least, that his parents moved here from that country. Turns out, his family has been in the U.S. longer than most of mine has, he doesn't speak the language that is unique to that country (though, to be fair, neither do a lot of people living in that country, as I understand it), and he's never been to that country. I do, actually, find his "obsession" with his "native country" to be somewhat laughable. But again, there's a difference between this guy and the average American who just has a passing interest in this stuff. There are a whole lot more "average Americans who just have a passing interest in this stuff" than there people like this guy. And, while I find this guy's "hobby" laughable, it's harmless, and who am I to judge? He's not hurting anyone, who cares?

As for your not feeling a need to ask your sister what race she is, I realize you were saying that tongue-in-cheek, but, presumably you are confident that she IS your blood relative, which means you know her background as well as you know your own. My brother and I look nothing alike. I'm 5'2, he's 6'2. When I'm not coloring it, I have brown hair; he's a strawberry blonde. I tan easily; he gets a sun burn just by thinking about being in the sun. We do not look like we are related in any way, shape or form. But even though I'm interested in people's ethnic backgrounds, I've never felt a need to ask him about his ethnic background -- he's my brother, I already KNOW his ethnic background. Again, I know (or at least am assuming) you were basically just kidding, but I just had to comment, because I can't help myself! ;)

@Lise -- honestly, whenever I've asked someone "where are you from," I've never been "demanding a DNA report." Look, some people are offended by this question, I get it. And sometimes they are offended with good cause, particularly when it IS clear that the person asking the question IS being intentionally rude, derogatory and/or racist. But sometimes, they're just being prickly, often because it's a question they get asked a lot, and they've just run out of patience for it, and again, I get it. Other people LOVE to be asked "where are you from" because they still have close ties to their country of origin (often still have family there) and are very proud of it. I have met both types. As a result, I don't just ask random strangers on the street this question. When I do ask it, it's usually someone I've just recently met and am in the process of getting to know -- but it's certainly not the FIRST question I ask, because I like to get a sense of the person and what his/her reaction might be to that question before I ask it.

Re: hedgehog #56
"We look for any excuse to throw a party in summertime!"
Sounds like Montreal. Tam Tam is basically a weekly pagan celebration to the effect that it is NOT winter. I love the ethnic diversity here - one of the reason I'm presently so pissed off at our asinine (and narrow-minded, short-sighted, ethnocentric, anglo-phobic etc) provincial government.

"To be fair, Volpe, I don't believe that as a country we're "obsessed" with this"
Do keep in mind that Volpe is in a better position to know about this than you and I are. Yes, the fight against intolerance has made great strides, but it still exists. If I look at the people I know who are firmly convinced that racism has ceased to exist, none of them has ever been on the receiving end of it. It's so easy to not know how bad a situation is when you're not in the middle of it!

@Stacey, Zoe, Maggie
Very often people confuse spirituality with religion. Spiritual people will try to follow the Golden Rule regardless of what religion they originally were brought up in (if any), are trying to connect with a higher entity regardless of what name they may call It (if any), and will do good for its own sake, because they want to respect themselves and have chosen the Light over the Darkness, not because they're afraid of burning in hell - if any. Just like truly honest people do not need police breathing down their necks to prevent them from stealing.

There are religious people who are actually spiritual, but there are too many pseudo-religious people who fall back on religion to convince themselves that as long as they go to church, eat Kosher or pray with their head towards Mecca five times a day, they'll be saved, all the while thinking, saying and doing all the wrong things.

This reminds me of the argument about guns, stating that it's not guns who kill, but people. Yes, that is technically correct, but people kill much more efficiently using guns and their bare hands. By the same token, using religion to influence the behaviour of simple folks who are only seeking comfort for their suffering, often leads to yet more suffering. We here who are eastern Canadians of French extraction know first-hand what price the French of the defeated New-France colony eventually had to pay for the Church comforting them after the Plains of Abrahams. The Great Darkness lasted until the sixties.

Stacey, you say, "A lot of evil things go on in this world every day...not sure religion is solely responsible for that." In fact, religion is responsible for none of it, it is (in)human nature which is to blame. Problem is, just like guns kill people better than hands, religion can used to inflict suffering, on a wholesale basis this time.

Definitely, there have been and there still are, countless horrors perpetrated in the name of God. Some by people genuinely convinced (if misguided and fanatical), others knowingly using the cover of religion to perpetrate their evil deeds. It is always one of the greatest victories of Satan to clothe himself as a messenger of God, to confuse and mislead blind humanity...

Re: Lise B

Thanks for your input and for making the distinction between spirituality and religion. While I would not consider myself a spiritual person (I think we're just here, we live, then die & rot - nothing else - but that doing good makes our time here more pleasant), I have nothing against spirituality itself. It is the institution of religion I have a problem with. Then there are wonderful, generous people like my grandparents who say they are Christian, yet don't go to church most of the time - but they do for Christmas. They don't say grace, but they believe in God more or less as taught by the bible. They don't agree with a lot of the Catholic fodder yet ensured I was baptized as a child. It is strange to me.

Re guns / bare hands. I read an insightful comment recently about that. It was around the time when there was a mass shooting in the US and some school stabbings in China. Someone (pro-gun) commented that mass attacks still happened even in countries with strict gun regulations like China. I can't remember the exact numbers, but many people died in the shooting and few (or none) died in the knife attack. And it is shown that suicides go down when items that make it easier to commit suicide are removed (either gun control, or phasing out gas stoves, or putting up netting around a bridge). It really is true that reducing objects of violence (and for some people, religion is one), violence is reduced.

Another comparison (better than my Walmart one earlier) would be PETA. I feel very strongly about humane animal treatment but the organization of PETA is insane and hypocritical. Many people who support it don't know that, or they do but they themselves are normal and just want to attach themselves to an organization that helps animals. And although PETA is nuts there are surely a few good things they have done, including raising awareness. But despite all that I can't support such an organization, and would freely say it sucks. There are better ways to achieve the same goal without supporting an organization that supports violence in any way.

Re: Anji
I don't call myself disabled, but I do have sequels and an age factor, which both put severe limitations on the kind of employment I can have.

As hard as it is, I'm lucky I have self-employment to fall back on, many others don't and become dependent on their families or live in squalor. I would have much less to complain about if business wasn't so rotten. We all keep hoping that it'll finally pick up and the media keeps telling us the economy is growing, but still we see no difference except for the worse.

@Michelle #68
"My brother and I look NOTHING alike. We are the complete opposite of each other - physically."
When I was in grade school, one of my best friends was in a situation like that. She and her brother looked nothing like each other, one light, the other dark, and she was taller than him. The real joke was that they weren't just brother and sister, they were fraternal twins!

@Lisa #69
As I said before, I am not offended either unless it comes preceded with a version of "My GAWD, but you talk funny". What ruffled my feathers was the Annies' comment.

The reason why so many people are sensitive about any speech impediment they may have is because, to most people, it makes them sound (at least originally) like their impediment is mental rather than vocal. For the Annies to suggest that something likes this could possibly sound Canadian IS offensive.

And BTW, English teachers out there - is it "the media keeps telling us", or "the media keep telling us?

Re: Zoe #71
"It really is true that reducing objects of violence (and for some people, religion is one), violence is reduced."
Yes, because the instrument of violence lends opportunity to the violent urge. Remove the object, and the only ones who will go through the trouble and hard work of devising a way to kill themselves nevertheless are the ones who are *really* intent on it. For the others, the urge will pass with no harm done, for lack of availability of a facilitator.

I remember the gun/hands comparison after the last school shoot-out. Something similar happened in China, but the madman had no weapon except a knife. All the victims survived, as opposed to how many dead this time around?

Do keep in mind that Volpe is in a better position to know about this than you and I are. Yes, the fight against intolerance has made great strides, but it still exists. If I look at the people I know who are firmly convinced that racism has ceased to exist, none of them has ever been on the receiving end of it. It's so easy to not know how bad a situation is when you're not in the middle of it!
**********
Lise, Volpe said she was not talking about racism or intolerance. She was specifically talking about Americans choosing to know their own ancestry: "I'm Irish-American" "My mother came from Japan; my father from Jamaica" "You're from Italy? My great-grandma was born in Italy!"

She didn't understand why we tend to do that, or what purpose it serves, and contrasted it with her country, which has many people from other places but that it's not a topic of conversation.

I'm saying that the greater interest in it here is a natural development considering the way people came and still come to the United States, not speaking English at all or very well. I've said before that in my small, local elementary school district, the English as a Second Language director told me there are something like 28 other primary languages being spoken in the students' homes. Not 28 students, mind you -- 28 primary languages.)

I think that... and the fact that America has always identified itself as a melting pot nation of immigrants... have made it as natural for Americans to make it a topic of casual conversation as it is for people on vacation to say, "and where are you visiting from?"

Volpe may have "heard" that it's something Americans are obsessed with -- I can tell you it doesn't come up daily in my casual conversation or in my first meeting with most people (how I would define "obsessed"). As evidence: How often do we talk about it here?

But it does usually come up at some point with co-workers or friends: "I'm going to Festa Italiana this weekend" "Oh -- are you Italian?" "Nope:Spanish/Scottish/Cherokee. But my boyfriend's band is playing, and I can't wait to get a canolli!"

Obsessed? Hardly.

Re: Lise Brouillette
Not an English teacher, but I was an English major in college. "Media" is plural, so technally it would be keep, not keeps. But (as we discussed the other day), usage has changed the word so that it's used most often as a singular noun and because of that, it's now become "correct" by some experts to say "the media keeps". Confusing? YES!

Re: Lise B

It depends in whether you are in the UK or here :). In England they tend to use group words as plural (family, media, etc) whereas here we use the word singular because it is one entity.

My experience of Americans talking about their ancestry is quite similar to Hedgehog's. It's something that most people know about, and if you are becoming good friends with someone, it's likely to come up as a topic of conversation at some point.

So, not obsessed per se, but certainly not an uncommon topic of conversation either.

Just yesterday my daughter and I were walking through the mall and she saw a store that had water pipes, also called "hookah's" and she asked me what they were.

I told her they were a way of smoking tobacco and other substances but that I hoped she would not ever use tobacco or drugs. I also took a moment to tell her that I hoped she would wait until it legal for her to drink alcohol and that she would never overindulge. She is eight and I'm planting seeds in her mind.

She does see me taking my prescription medications and she asks me about them. I explain the different reasons why I take them and talk to her about the doctors and how I handle my prescriptions.

I told her she could tell me anything and that I was there to help and guide her to a wonderful life. She said, "you'll always see me because I'm never going to leave you". At this point, I just can't see thirteen with this child as being that bad. But pray for me, because God sometimes has an incredible sense of humor!!

Re: Chelle--See if you can find the article "Why babies are like puppies, and teens are like cats," to prepare yourself.

I went from having a sweet, cuddly little boy who'd run up to me in his school library, (I was volunteering) jump on a stool and give me a big kiss right in front of everyone, to a teen who grudgingly let me follow behind him with my checkbook as he registered for classes in high school--just not too close. I also embarrassed him when we were in the car and I sang along with the radio, even though it was just the two of us.

Now, I've got a young man who calls me a couple of times a week, just to talk and make sure everything is okay, while he's driving, even though he knows that drives me crazy and I wish he wouldn't talk on his cell and drive.

I'm proud of him, but what I wouldn't give to have that sweet little boy back, just for a day.

The problem with saying "the media keeps reporting...." is that plenty of people (I'm one of them) will assume that you're ignorant of the fact that "media" is the plural of "medium." There's television, radio, print, internet. etc. Together they make up the "media." They are plural. Go and sin no more.

The problem with saying "the media keeps reporting...." is that plenty of people (I'm one of them) will assume that you're ignorant of the fact that "media" is the plural of "medium." There's television, radio, print, internet. etc. Together they make up the "media." They are plural. Go and sin no more.

The problem with saying "the media keeps reporting...." is that plenty of people (I'm one of them) will assume that you're ignorant of the fact that "media" is the plural of "medium." There's television, radio, print, internet. etc. Together they make up the "media." They are plural. Go and sin no more.

Re: Maggie

I'm typically a stickler for correct grammar, but I think that media as a singular noun is one of those things that is coming (or has come) with language evolution. It is a collective noun that IMO can be used plural or single depending on the speaker/author and audience - like "agenda", which is/was the plural of "agendum".

Y'know, I kinda get why LW2 is so irritated with people asking him about his voice. I am a tall woman - I stand 6' tall in my bare feet, and I wish I had a nickel for every time someone has come up to me and said, "Wow, hyuk hyuk, are you ever tall!" It REALLY used to annoy me, mainly because it happened so often. Eventually, I developed a few funny lines, and learned to laugh it off. My favorite is probably "I ate my veggies when I was young", in my best "awe shucks" Western Canadian drawl. And don't think I didn't notice that reference to prickly Westerners, Lise ;-)
When I was 19, I visited and lived in the States for about 9 months or so, most of it in Denver. I worked under the table, and my accent was commented on fairly regularly. I told them I was from Montana ;-)

Re: Joannakathryn

Joanna, your post reminded me of so many of my experiences with my own son. How can they be embarassed, even in a car, when it is just you and him? One time when I was driving him, listening to a radio station that he hated, a song I liked came on. He went to change the station, and I said to him, "Don't change that...that song is by Bread."

He punched the button, and said, "Now, they are toast."

I could not stop laughing. You raise a good point that sometimes a car ride is a good time to have a discussion with a teenager because it is kind of neutral territory and you don't have to have eye contact. We had beginnings of very helpful discussions in the car.

@Kitty, Zoe. Maggie Lawrence
I KNEW I had seen both "the media keep reporting" and the "the media keeps reporting"... And I knew media is the plural of medium (I've done Latin), hence my confusion. Thanks for the clarification.

Since I live in a country that spells "colour" and "realise" rather than "color" and "realize", I'll choose the British way (plural), which is more logical anyway. I was going to write "anyways" just to push some buttons, but I chose to be a good girl. :-D

Agree, Maggie Lawrence. When someone says "the media always reports" it puts into the same bucket the Wall Street Journal, Huffington Post, Fox News, ESPN, the Playboy Channel, Guideposts and alternative weekly newspapers! Those are very different voices and philosophies.

Using "media" as a singular noun reinforces the concept that they are all reporting to one owner.

Re: Lise B

Just to complicate matters, I will point out that here in Canada we use the "American" spelling for some words such as program (vs programme), pediatric (paediatric), airplane (aeroplane), aluminum (aluminium), etc :)

Re: Zoe
And then there is Quebec English with all its gallicisms... Ain't English a wonderful medium? ;-D

Lise/ post #8: If the Annie's were saying that a "weird" accent is likely to come from Canada, I'd agree, but what they said was that a "weird" accent is NOT likely to come from Canada. So it's like you're saying "we do SO speak funny! How DARE you say we don't, Annies!".

@Lise- I knew fraternal twins, one was short and blond, the other tall and brunette. They had a tall, brunette brother, and everyone always thought the two brunettes were twins! And my own kids look unrelated. The boy is 6 ft. 1 in., and the girl is 5 ft. 2 in. He is light, like me, and she is darker, like their dad. Since my hubs and I are not tall, our son's appearance drew nasty remarks from some people, but he has physical characteristics that are certain proof that he is his dad's son. Plus, you know, the fact that I was never with anyone else. Best to ignore jerks who make rude remarks. They are usually trying to find evidence that everyone is as corrupt and soulless as they are.

Re: Steve C
This is one way of reading what they wrote, but not the only one. Read post #29.

@Patty Bear
Yep. That's called projecting.

LW #2 Perhaps you were talking so loud on your cell phone is why you got the question about your accent. Either way, don't be so sensitive about a question since most of us in the US are from somewhere else and it is just a conversation subject. Keep your voice down when on the cell phone and you will probably never get this question again while on the phone. I love Canadians and have never met one I didn't like. Canada is one of our best allied friends as far as countries goes. Always has been and I hope it continues.

Re: Mandy
It's not likely to change unless the geography undertakes a major transformation... ;-D