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Dark Clouds On The Verizon
I work 9 to 5, and my girlfriend of two years is retired and pretty much free all day. I've asked that we treat dinner as our special time to reconnect and ignore incoming phone calls. Sadly, instead of embracing this request, she has resisted me with full force. Whenever the phone rings during dinner, she answers and stays on as long as the call takes. We don't get urgent calls. She counters that if the phone rings, you answer it, and that it could be some problem she can just address and be done with. She deems my request "controlling," yet I've never made a demand or thrown a tantrum. I've just explained that I'd appreciate it if we could carve out 30 minutes of together-time. I've also asked her to ignore the phone when we're in bed, but her tendency is to answer it — even if we're having sex. I've explained how unwanted this phone thing makes me feel, but she doesn't seem to get it. — Ignored
What will happen if one of these calls goes to voicemail? Kim Jong Un will unleash an electromagnetic pulse bomb on the U.S., and the power grid will be fried for 40 years — or the neighbor will have to call back to tell your girlfriend the ingenious thing she did to perk up her banana cake?
Two years into your relationship, the point when so many partners are just getting good at taking each other for granted, you're telling your girlfriend you want to carve out special time to focus on each other — just 30 minutes out of her unbusy, retired woman day. She, in turn, responds like you just demanded she cut off her three favorite fingers and feed them to the pigeons.
It's possible that she isn't entirely conscious of why she's treating you this way. She may fear getting closer and then getting dumped or think you'll value her more if she makes you feel like less and less. It's possible she is punishing you for something or is trying to abuse you into leaving. What is clear is who's the controlling one here — the self-appointed dowager countess of the relationship, making the unilateral decision that the phone will be answered no matter what. As for you, her significant serf, keep quiet and eat your gruel while milady has a nice chat with Rachel from Cardmember Services.
It must get hard to parse whether you're in a relationship or a call center. Perhaps you, like many people, assume that being in a relationship means having a partner who loves you and cares about your happiness. Your girlfriend does seem to — as long as it doesn't mean having to call somebody back after dinner. Even if she doesn't fully understand what's motivating her behavior, if she does love you, she can behave lovingly while she figures it out and stop answering the phone like she's one of the town's two sober volunteer firemen. Telling her how unwanted you feel obviously isn't enough; you also have to have standards for how you'll be treated and be willing to walk if they aren't met — ideally, into the arms of a woman whose screams of passion in bed don't include "Who's calling, please?"
SWAT About A Friday Night?
I met this very attractive woman who works at my local bank. She has twice called me regarding the bank's offerings, and I've gotten a vibe that her interest isn't wholly professional. Do I drop by on a pretext and blindside her with "Let's go out sometime"? Is there another way to get her attention? — Stuck
Many men have had success getting the attention of a woman who works in a bank by coming in wearing pantyhose over their head and handing her a note. Unfortunately, this approach also tends to draw the attention of the woman's co-workers (unimaginative sorts who, at the first sign of creative headgear, are quick to summon the SWAT team). Even if you forgo the pantyhat, asking her out in person is a problem, as nothing turns the workplace into a junior high school cafeteria faster than having your co-workers looking on as somebody hits on you. (Unless your "local bank" is Citibank's world headquarters, she probably sits at a desk in the middle of the place.) So, do go in on some pretext — so she can attach a face to your name — and then phone her to ask her out. If she turns you down, just act like you're cool with it and you shouldn't have a problem showing your face in the bank — tempting as it might be to go in wearing a Richard Nixon mask and try again: "No dye packs or marked money, and can I interest you in dinner and a slow-speed police chase?"
Got a problem? Write Amy Alkon, 171 Pier Ave., #280, Santa Monica, CA 90405, or email AdviceAmy@aol.com (www.advicegoddess.com). Alkon is the author of "I See Rude People: One Woman's Battle To Beat Some Manners Into Impolite Society."
COPYRIGHT 2013 AMY ALKON
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It's Amy Alkon's Advice Goddess Radio! "Nerd your way to a better life," with the best brains in science solving your love, dating, sex, and relationship problems. Listen live every Sunday — http://www.blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon — 7-8 p.m. PT, 10-11 p.m. ET, or download the podcast at the link. The call-in number during the show is 347-326-9761. This week, Dr. Loren Cordain on eating paleo for optimal health and workouts.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon/2013/04/08/dr-loren-cordain-paleo-diet-for-athletes
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Comments
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22 Comments | Post Comment
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LW2: I'll take this one straight, and leave off the implications of bank robbery as Amy suggests.
My advice – Uh, this may be one of those "you can't have her" situations.
I'd just be inclined to ignore the woman's vibes, whatever they may be and keep up the search. If it were that you were from a small town and also happen to go to the same church, bar, social events, etc. and discover you might have chemistry (and more importantly, that she's single and looking), then I might try approaching her at one of those other events if you're lucky enough to see her.
BUT NOT AT WORK! NEVER AT WORK!
The workplace is not the way to ask a woman – a CSR in this case – out, particularly an employee who is trying to get work done, and also because you may have no idea if she's in a relationship or married. Even if she were unattached, it'd probably be embarrassing to her and it may make her feel uncomfortable, which I'm sure is not what you intend.
Also, it could be you're misinterpreting her completely. That is, she's being friendly so she can close a sale and add to her commission, that her style and delivery is this way because it works for her, and the fact that she's a totally hot babe doesn't hurt. If there were any hint that there was something unprofessional about her style or otherwise, her supervisor probably would have spoken to her.
The absurd bank robbery thing aside and wading through that muck, I'd suggest Amy's advice of being OK with it if she says no is absolutely a must.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Bobaloo
Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:07 AM
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LW1 -
The reason why your girlfriend views a normal request as "controlling" is because from her end, a power struggle is exactly what it is. There isn't a law that states that you HAVE to answer the door or the phone. As I'm sure she knows and practices herself when you're out of the house and she's in the shower. But she's going out of her way to answer the phone at suppertime or even during sex, and takes her own sweet time about it, because she's making a point, as in, "nobody tells *ME* what to do". And apparently, the transmission of her little editorial is more important to her than your relationship.
Nobody is born relating on a slave-master basis, this is always learned behaviour, generally related to the relationships with and between parents. I would suggest family therapy and deprogramming for her, and perhaps for you too, but nobody goes into that without first admitting there is a problem. I don't see that here, so I think your prospects are pretty bleak.
LW2 -
Studies have shown that both men and women are remarkably cross-wired when it comes to interpreting the signs of interest in the other gender. You don't specify what makes you think she's interested, and it may be that she is indeed, but it also may be that what you mistake for interest is just professional cordiality. So I would go v-e-r-y carefully if I were you.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:00 AM
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Re: Lise Brouillette (#2)
Exactly – "... (b)ut it also may be that what you mistake for interest is just professional cordiality."
I know sometimes I go back to a letter that was once published (about three years ago) in both the Advice Goddess and Annie's Mailbox about the middle-aged schmuck who repeatedly asked out the 20-year-old waitress even though he was repeatedly told no. I'm sure on the first couple of meetings between the young waitress and the creepy customer – well before things got hairy – she was being friendly with him because it was her job to be cordial and make the customer feel special. They might have shared a little small talk but so far, nothing to worry about. Then LW took things too far – "Hey, would you like to go out on a date with me?" – and persisted when he was told no ... and it didn't end well, if I remember right.
To append my earlier remarks, I'd caution today's LW to not go down that same path ... be VERY careful in how you handle the pretty banker, how you approach her, know where to draw the line and all that good stuff. Sure, if you want to talk about the weather (figuratively speaking), that's good ... but I'd be very squeamish about actually asking her out.
As I said earlier, it's one thing if you happen to meet her outside of work, but here, it isn't a good idea.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Bobaloo
Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:05 PM
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LW1 -- There are people out there who really just believe that if the phone rings you have to answer it, because "what if it's an emergency?" In fact, I used to be one of those people -- before the advent of answering machines and voicemail. Now, I answer when it's convenient for me to do so. But not everyone is able to make that transition. This could be your GF trying to "make a point" about you not being able to tell her what to do, as Lise B suggests, but I think it's just as likely that she's just one of those people who is compelled to mindlessly answer the phone every time it rings, like Pavlov's dogs. You don't get why she does this. She doesn't get why this bothers you so much. I would say you're going to have to figure out if this is a deal-breaker for you. Perhaps one of the first steps toward doing that is determining whether you really believe that her refusal to change her behavior really does say something about how she prioritizes you and your relationship.
And while you are busy trying to determine if she loves and respects you, you might take a hard look at just how much respect you have for her. It is clear you think her time is less valuable than yours because she is retired. Now, certainly, depending on how she spends her time, she likely has a lot more free time than you do. But is it possible that your attitude about how she spends her time has leaked into how you feel about her? Look, I get it, I do. My brother works full time, and my SIL does not (and they also have a cleaning service, so my SIL is not spending her days keeping house). As a result, when they are scheduling things, it is my brother's schedule that takes priority over hers because his schedule is much tighter than hers, and the fact is, the stuff on his schedule is what keeps them fed, clothed and sheltered, whereas the stuff on her schedule is not nearly as important to their "survival" as his. You're not doubt thinking that your GF has all day long to take as many unimportant phone calls as she wants and that you are not asking too much for her to ignore the phone for 30 precious minutes. I don't think your request is unreasonable, but I can't help wondering if there is a reason that what should have been a reasonable request has turned into a bizarre power struggle for you both. I'd say it's high time you take stock and figure out if this relationship is what you want, and if it isn't, is there something that can be done to improve it, and if not, perhaps it's time to get out.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Lisa
Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:11 PM
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LW2 -- That vibe you're getting? It's simply her trying to sell you a few extra products and/or services from the bank. Sex sells, buddy, and we all know it. She isn't trying to get you to ask her out -- she's trying to make a buck. She's calling you and being nice to you because that's her job. See what happens when you turn her down flat for any additional opportunities for the bank to sell you something -- she will disappear. Now, if she does NOT disappear, it's POSSIBLE she's interested in you. Unfortunately, it's far more likely that she's just being persistent because she hasn't made her quota for her commission, yet.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Lisa
Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:18 PM
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Maybe it's because I'm in a bad mood, maybe it's because Chris hasn't said anything snarky yet, but, LW1, Sweety, Honey, Sugar Pie: maybe it's because you're a bad conversationalist and you suck in the sack.
Comment: #6
Posted by: wyn667
Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:04 PM
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LW1: If your girlfriend can't set aside dinner for uninterrupted time with you, or even uninterrupted lovemaking, you need another girlfriend. Sorry. Don't think you can change someone. If it's wrong, it's wrong and it's just a matter of how much time you're going to spend on this.
LW2: You need to figure out if this woman is flirting with you to sell you something or just flirting with you for you. Men are often not good at this, so I say err in the direction that she's flirting with you to sell you something and decide that something unmistakable must happen before you make a fool of yourself. Coffee is a place to start, but I think it's likely that you are misreading her intentions. It's probably a sales pitch.
Comment: #7
Posted by: LouisaFinnell
Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:16 PM
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This could be your GF trying to "make a point" about you not being able to tell her what to do, as Lise B suggests, but I think it's just as likely that she's just one of those people who is compelled to mindlessly answer the phone every time it rings, like Pavlov's dogs.
**********
Agree, Lisa, and also with your point that followed, about LW1's likely attitude that because she is retired she SHOULD reschedule leading her to dig her heels in.
I think there's also the possibility that she's doing the Pavlovian response in part because she gets less human interaction during the day. Does she volunteer or see friends/neighbors daily? When I was a telecommuter with toddlers at home, I used to joke that I missed adult interaction enough that I'd talk for 20 minutes with telemarketers trying to sell me siding!
LW2: Don't blindside her. By all means, though, go to the bank during the day and take a moment to say hi. "Hey, I had a question about that ZZZZ service you told me about on the phone last Tuesday -- can you help me?". Check out the vibe you get in person; check out whether she's wearing a wedding ring.
If things are going smoothly, do NOT ask her out -- just yet. You need to drop by a few more times and engage in enough small talk to gauge her other interests so you can make a low-key, casual offer of something that would interest you both, whether it's a trip to the Saturday farmer's market, a Starbucks run to try out a new flavor, a jazz concert or a local park cleanup project. The gradual building of common interests increases the chance that she'll say yes, because you won't be some unknown entity that she flirted with on the phone to make quota, but someone who has a dog named Max, someone who's putting in a garden this year, someone who's volunteering his time to help make the world better -- all the kind of stuff that helps her feel comfortable.
Comment: #8
Posted by: hedgehog
Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:53 AM
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LW1: You “girlfriend” does NOT care about you. Period. Dump her and work with a good therapist to see why you are attracted to, and stay with, women who treat you like a second class citizen.
LW2: This person is NOT interested in you. Her job is to sell you a product or service. Move on and find some else.
--Captain Wastey
Comment: #9
Posted by: Captain Wastey
Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:08 PM
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LW1: You “girlfriend” does NOT care about you. Period. Dump her and work with a good therapist to see why you are attracted to, and stay with, women who treat you like a second class citizen.
LW2: This person is NOT interested in you. Her job is to sell you a product or service. Move on and find some else.
--Captain Wastey
Comment: #10
Posted by: Captain Wastey
Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:12 PM
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LW1--In today's world where people are constantly interconnected one way or another and addicted to their smart phones, it's not a wonder that you can't pin your girlfriend down for a measly 30 minutes to enjoy a meal together without interruption. While your girlfriend likes to deflect her rudeness by claiming that you're controlling, she apparently missed the memo from the late 70s about a little invention created then called "voicemail". Look, you've made your wishes regarding dinner time crystal clear to your girlfriend. If she chooses to blow you off, then that says something about your relationship. The next time this clod takes a telephone call during dinner, simply mouth to her that she's clearly busy, then get up, get your keys and then go out to eat. Feel free to stay out as long as you like; heck, flirt and meet new women. Maybe when you find a woman who actually respects you and your feelings your current girlfriend will get the message that some things can wait.
LW2--Are you daft? A woman whom you find attractive has twice called you personally with "official bank business" and you're wondering about asking her out?!? If you're this clueless, maybe you should stick to Internet porn and dates with Miss Michigan if you catch my drift.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Chris
Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:15 PM
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Ok, Picture this scenario. You go in for a job interview for your dream job. You are all prepped and excited to meet your interviewer. You are 2 minutes into the interview when then his phone rings.
It's his wife asking him to make sure he picks up a DVD for tonight. The wife also proceeds to tell him about what little jonnie did that were so cute. The interviewer says can he call he back, and the wife says sure.
Five minutes later, one of his buds call asking to meet up after work for drinks. They talk for about 5 minutes; he hangs up and proceeds with the interview.
Five minute later, his mom calls asking what dessert to bring for the big dinner Friday night (Today is Tuesday). After another 5 minute conversation, he hangs up and asks ok where we were?
Five minutes later, a co-worker calls and want to know what he wants for lunch. After they both go over the menu and finally decide on a turkey sandwich, the interview is finished. The interviewer remarks, “I going have to be honest, I'm not really seeing anything impressive. Maybe after we talk to a few more candidates, we will see”
LW1, maybe you can relate this story to your GF. If she has absolutely no empathy for you regarding this, maybe she's not the person for you.
Comment: #12
Posted by: EB
Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:52 AM
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A few thoughts on LW1...Unless I overlooked it, we're not told whether he is living with the girl friend, although it would appear that is the case; and we're not told whether she's on a cell phone or a land line. If it's a land line and she doesn't actually use a cell phone (there ARE still some dinosaurs out there), this Could be her passive-aggressive way of protesting that he's not taking her out to dinner regularly or even occasionally. As to during sex, perhaps a change of venue occasionally might improve that situation as well.
The ONLY time my best friend EVER interrupted sex to answer the phone was during the last 2 weeks of his 99-year-old mother's life - when he had reason to expect a call that she had taken a turn for the worse.
The only time he took calls during a meal together was when he warned in advance that it might be necessary; it was take the call and deal with it or cancel the date - a furnace for an apartment building he managed had "gone out" in sub-zero weather during the days preceding Christmas and he had to ensure that people didn't freeze by keeping on the repairmen to ensure that they performed their job.
I'd say in both cases he had his priorities straight AND the advance apology for the interruption, should it occur - in addition to the circumstances, made it forgivable.
Comment: #13
Posted by: graham072442
Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:19 AM
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@EB: Did you actually experience this? If so, I'd say you got off lucky, doesn't sound like a person you'd want to work for.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Paul W
Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:18 AM
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LW2 here.
@Chris, Angry Much?
Thanks to Amy and all the commenters. I chose to do nothing.
Comment: #15
Posted by: DaveG
Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:34 PM
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Re: DaveG
Thanks for chiming in. I do wish for your sake that she had truly been interested in you, just not in closing a sale. But hey - people gotta make a living.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:37 PM
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DaveG (#15)
Hey, thanks for checking in, too. From my perspective, I sense you made a wise move.
I know it's really tough to tell yourself no when you see the hottest girl around ... but this is how it worked out, and I think it's best that it did this way.
Let's just say I've heard of a few situations where guys who were weighing what to do in the same situation (they see an attractive sales clerk try to make a sales pitch and she's very friendly with them) ... they thought with their privates (i.e., tried to ask them out) and it got them in a world of trouble. (Up to being banned from the business ... never went any further, fortunately, although it easily could have meant at least a trip to the hospital and a nose brace, or worse, jail.)
So if you see this -- what led to your decision? Was it just you weren't interested in her, or her products ... what? Sorry it didn't go past the formative stage, though ... really am.
As for Chris ... he's harmless. Sometimes, he uses snark in his remarks (as he did today), but his bark is worse than his bite. He's OK.
Anyway, good luck with your future, and I do hope you find your dream girl someday.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Bobaloo
Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:16 PM
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@paul W. Not a job interview, but it did happen during a performance review with a boss several years ago. It was a nightmare. What should have only taken 15 minutes turned into an hour because of interruptions.
I personally have a very stern rule about not answering the phone when I'm with people or when I have company over.
If it's important, leave a voisemail. Send a text to me saying it's an emergency.
Comment: #18
Posted by: EB
Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:28 AM
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Re: EB (#18)
What a breach of etiquette by the hiring manager/interviewer! I realize that it is a no-no to complain to human resources about the interview, but this one might be one to write to his boss about. The interviewer may have been guilty of this before.
The ONLY time a job interview or job-related conference should EVER be interrupted is if it truly IS an emergency (e.g., "You're father had a massive heart attack," "Your daughter's been in a bad accident and isn't expected to live," etc.)
THOSE ARE EMERGENCIES!!!!! Not, "Hey honey, could you pick up DVDs at the Redbox on the way home?"
I've had this happen a couple of times when I've been on scheduled interviews ... someone takes a call they've been "expecting" and it's little more than personal chatter. HOW RUDE!
Comment: #19
Posted by: Bobaloo
Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:56 AM
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Re: Bobaloo #17
The woman set up new accounts for me during my visit to her branch. I had the sense that she'd be interesting to date and that she was vibing me. I've always felt that people deserve, at the least, to know whether their message was received.
At the same time, I have a waning interest in someone I thought might be perfect for me but who's not in a dating head space (or at least not with me) and I'm NOT going to push the envelope and end up in the friend zone. I imagined if Ms. Waning gave me the green light I'd clear my dance card, so for that reason, plus all the accurate observations here, I decided to do nothing. So my intent was to ask her out just to acknowledge what I perceived as her interest, and I didn't do that.
Comment: #20
Posted by: DaveG
Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:33 PM
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@DaveG -- I appreciate that you took the time to come BTL and tell us you took the advice to assume that this woman's interest in you is solely professional. But your more recent post to Bobaloo strikes me as a bit odd, to be honest. You feel that "people deserve, at the least, to know whether their message was received." So, if someone who was completely uninteresting/unappealing to you seemed interested in you, would you ask her out "just to acknowledge what [perceived] as her interest?" Of course not, because if you asked her out, she would (correctly) assume that you WERE interested in you, and she'd agree to go out with you, and then you're stuck going on a date with a woman you're not even interested in. You do understand that sounds a bit bizarre, right? Here's what I think you would actually do: you would ignore that the unattractive woman was "vibing" you so as not to encourage it and lead her on about you reciprocating those "vibes." Similarly, I find it hard to imagine that your intent was to "ask her out just to acknowledge what I perceived as her interest." Please stop trying to kid yourself or anyone else -- your intent was to ask her out in hope that she would say yes and maybe the two of you would start dating. There's nothing wrong with admitting that. All this malarkey about people deserving to know that someone else gets that their interested in them...please put that away.
Comment: #21
Posted by: Lisa
Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:35 PM
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WHOA -- holy errors, Batman! Let me try this again. A couple of lines in my above post made zero sense. Please substitute this for the fourth and fifth sentences:
So, if someone who was completely uninteresting/unappealing to you seemed interested in you, would you ask her out "just to acknowledge what [you] perceived as her interest?" Of course not, because if you asked her out, she would (correctly_ that you WERE interested in her, and she'd agree to go out with you, and then you're stuck going on a date with a woman you're not even interested in.
Comment: #22
Posted by: Lisa
Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:40 PM
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