Maybe Not the Sharpest Knife in the Drawer

Sir;... My father lost one of those toy knives before he died... He was pre-occupied with nearly terminal prostate cancer, was as weak as a kitten, forgot to pack it in his luggage, and could not put up much of a fight...And it hurt him, first that the bureaucracy of his government was too stupid to see he was no threat, but also when life itself was slipping away from him, to have a keepsake of many years ordered off his person, and trashed, no alternative, no offer to send it along home, nothing... Sans everything, said Shakespeare... No doubt...
Cancer left little for the worms to fight over... He ran the good race, and lived the good life with love and sympathy for suffering humanity... But he was one of them old time ironworkers when ironworkers were not roustabouts, or roughnecks, or gandydancers with their hats turned backwards... They were men certain of their courage, sure of their intelligence who knew they were a cut above and wanted to dress and act the part of gentlemen...
My dad was a cracker jack sailer, and a bridgman... He was a young old timer when I entered the trade... He had sailed on the Pittsburg, a heavy cruiser during the war with an ironworker drafted into service, and he was forever asking the man to tell him about Ironwork, and after the war, that Texan sent him an Ironworker magazine... He was made for it in the sense that I and many men never were... First of all, sailing is good training for anything requiring a neat mind and rigging skills... You can use the blue jacket manual to splice cable, or make chokers... The point is, that an old man, a veteran, a guy obviously suffering his ailments and weak does not pose much of a threat to anyone or any flight crew, and most people do not...
It is the job of leadership to lead, to determine where the greatest threat or opportunity lies, and to act upon reasonble estimates, and here are our elected officials and a few stewardesses who want to jamb up everyone over a handful of non threatening- non weapons... Why???
I have seen a plane crash and got there while the fires raged... A nail trimmer had nothing to do with it; but as usual, pilot error...There is a certain danger that the more they fly the sooner they will die, but not from toy knives, nailclippers or corkscrews... It is so rare to ever see a bureucracy make sense, and along comes congress to make sure no sense is possible; and for what??? A specious feeling of security???... Such people are dreaming...
If they want safety, then stay in bed... If they are going to have a life they will face some danger, and they need a back up plan rather than some nonsense pre-plan to avoid all hazzards... It is not possible to be safe in an unsafe world because life is dangerous and always will be; and they should give up the idea...
If they want a world where they can abuse people at will because they could afford no better than 2nd class for seating on a third rate airline, who will never have first class tickets to paradise, who are stuck on the tarmac with some one like me with the farts for days at a time; then want away... I will not help them...They should remember that life is a crap sandwich, and the more bread you have the less crap you have to face, and then face it on a dare...
Taking away nail trimming knives from old dying men is no feat of courage or strength... Obviously, the ability of a bureucracy to some times be absolutely correct is more a surprise to them than they can take... Tough... Because when they force government to prioratize, some one is going to feel the effects some where, and it cannot always be the other guy...
Thanks...Sweeney

Mark, you have lost it. I used to respect what you write, but all I can see from you lately is cashing in on the name brand you impressively created many long years ago.

Nobody needs to worry about little knives, Mark. You know that. The whole thing was a sham from the beginning.

Life is toxic, Mark, you could die.

We all live with risk. The issue is what is a rational amount of risk to live with. Do you drive a car? Do you always drive at the speed limit?

Got big news for you: each mile per hour you drive over the speed limit translates into lives lost. Do you want to do anything about that? Nope. Admit it.

What would you do to bring in more cash if you couldn't sell this crap any more?

Re: Masako;... Mr. Shields may be wrong here, but he is not the issue... We have the government we have because people squealed for it... As soon as you prioritize, organize, economize the sqeal begins all over again... Government cannot be at once essential and too expensive... If what it is doing is essential, then the cost, what ever it may be, is anavoidable...
Thanks...Sweeney

Mark,
I guess that I am not a passenger that you know. I do spend a fair amount of time flying. This issue is silly and it always has been. Imagine if, in the post-911 world, five guys stood up on a plane, opened their pen knives, and declared their intent to take control of the plane. 1. The pilot would not open the door. 2. the rest of the passengers would get up and pummel the idiots with their carry-on luggage. The stupidity about nail clippers and pen knives was never about flight safety. It was always about the appearance of security to calm passenger nerves - security theater. It is about time consideration of actual risk happened. Forget the pen knives, stay focused on the potential explosives.

Re: Mark;... I have never been subject to any rudeness, mental distress, or abuse as a passenger from airport or airline personel... They are good as gold in my book; and yet I have heard people talk of the nonsense they have had to suffer as a passenger from people who should be there to serve them... I think this little piddling outcry from the stewardesses et al, has more to do with the desire to at least have the power to abuse people with impunity...
Some abusive people are like that; forgetting the universal need for civility, but wanting humanity unarmed against it... I simply consider people armed, but I do not look for conflict, and as much as possible in social situations try to resolve conflict peacefully... Air travel is distressing to some people... All travel is distressing to me... I have my comfort zone... People have their comfort zones, and there ought to be reasonable limits to the abuse people must take before being brought back to the gate...
I guess that if I was a flight attendant I wouldn't want to tell everyone to stay put because a tire is flat, and another one is coming from China...Travel is lousy... It easy on an jet to imagine I'm on a bus in some third world hell with chickens in cages, feathers and flies in the air, everyone sweating like pigs and kids riding on a luggage rack on the roof... Lousy....
It is not good, it is not healthy, its claustraphic, and it stinks...I suppose if it was me, I would want everyone's teeth and finger nails pulled as well, but to some, reasonable is treasonable, and thank God the government can still make enough sense to prioritize dangers... How did the attendants survive before??? Did they- God Forbid- have to be nice to people???
Thanks...Sweeney

Re: James A, Sweeney. Can't argue with most of that.

But this security crap is mostly show, and it's costly, and it is not essential for anyone except the politicians, and spoiled, risk-averse, over-stuffed, delicate Americans need to stop worrying about dying, and stop pissing and moaning about the fact that they will some day, and start thinking about living.

Life is about risk. You might be in an airplane that gets taken over by terrorists, you might be gunned down in a school or an office or a parking lot by a crazy with an AK-47 or some other firearm, you might be mugged, and you might be in a car accident that MESSES YOU UP. I've listed those in order of increasing probability.

Do Americans care that they might die in an auto accident? Nope. That's why they drive like maniacs down the highway every day in droves, and you can see the evidence of that any time you drive on those highways.

We've let those bastards in the Middle East contort us into a ridiculous kabuki routine, and they are laughing at us and our protective-bubble-seeking, chicken-heartedness every single day. And Mark, the brave, heroic, former Marine, knows better.

James

I'm sorry for the loss of your father.

I could cut the carotid artery of a flight attendent with a Swiss Army knife. I don't forsee a need to do that but I could if I were inclined. You don't think like a terrorist but I do. I use my skills for good. But not everyone is going to.

Capiscan,
I don't get your point. Yes you could do real harm to an individual with a small knife. If you have the skills, you could do great harm to an individual or two with your bare hands. The question is security vs cost, both finical and social. We could make ourselves VERY safe if we all were required to change into hospital gowns, check our clothes with all of our luggage, and be locked into our bubble covered seats, etc. The point of airline security is not to create a zone of absolute safety. It is to prevent terror attacks on airlines. You have not placed yourself in the mind of the terrorist if you think that a Swiss Army knife is currently an effective tool for airline terror. From that twisted perspective, are you willing to spend the rest of your life in prison so you can cut a flight attendant or two with a knife? The terrorists who are willing to die for the cause do not plan to blow themselves up holding the other guy's flag in a vacant lot. They try to blow themselves up with as many of the other guys as they can. The time and effort wasted on Swiss Army knives and nail clippers should be directed toward real risks. We should welcome this rare moment of government sanity.
.
There are several dangers created by the security theater. One is that real risk can avoid detection while we are focused on trivia. Another is that we become a timid, fearful population who sees a Swiss Army knife in the hands of our fellow travelers as something to be automatically feared. Such a population is willing to accept the loss of their civil rights for relief from the danger all around them. Such a population would accept the USA PATRIOT act and the government's warrant-less wiretapping of their calls, for example.

The overwhelming vast majority of terrorists acts on planes since 911 have been taken care of my civilian passengers, not TSA. American travelers will never allow terrorists to win on an airplane as long as we remember the last words of Todd Beamer - Let's roll.

Mark, it takes one terrorist with a knife to a flight attendent's throat to ruin everyone's day.

capiscan,
It takes one terrorist with a knife to ruin any individual's day anywhere. Again, you have bought into the terrorist buggy man that security theater tries to conjure. "Only through the diligence of the brave TSA agents have we been spared attacks by nail clipper wielding terrorists willing to go to jail for life so they can scratch a flight attendant." Again. Put yourself in the mind of the terrorist. You have one chance to strike terror in the hearts of America. Then you are either dead or in jail for life. Do you throw away your life so you can cut a random flight attendant? An act that will be noticed for about five minutes of a news cycle? Or do you plot to do dastardly things to a softer target? (Major sporting event, religious gathering, etc.) There is a reason that edged devices are no longer used in attacks on planes and that reason is almost certainly not TSA. It is simply that, in order for small edged weapons to be effective, the passengers must consent to being victims. As David points out, passengers are fully aware of the new paradigm and the days of compliance are over. A terrorist holding a flight attendant at knife point will get zero compliance from anybody else on the plane. It might ruin the flight attendant's day, but most everybody else would be just fine. Terrorists know that.

I really don't want that guy next to me to carry a knife. I don't know him or his intentions.

Mike,
Do you ever ride public transit, including buses, commuter trains, light rail etc? Lots of small pocket knives in those passenger pockets and purses, and yet, incidents of Swiss Army knife wielding bad guys are pretty much unknown. While I respect your discomfort, I think careful risk analysis is the way to go on such public safety issues. I don't want the next underwear bomber missed because agents were too busy looking for small pointy things. (I once had to check a bag because it contained a 6 inch digital caliper measuring device. TSA just didn't like the somewhat pointy ends on the measuring jaws.) I welcome a shift in focus from the trivial to the real risk - suicide bombings. Explosives are now pretty much it for taking down an airliner from within. I want the TSA to look again at those shampoo bottles. The risk from explosives is very real and significant while the risk from Swiss Army knives just isn't.
.
A simple video demonstration of the principal can be found at: youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo Take the test and think about the TSA's job.

Re: capiscan;... And I must agree with Masako about risk averse people... I think if you gave the people a choice of all the security or a little speed to the process they would take the speed... Why are they flying Jets for chriisake anyway??? So they have an excuse to be x-rayed, sniffed, undressed and probed in public???
People are scared to fly, and they express that fear not in some fashion they can confront directly, but against external causes for concern, or inconvenience...
I actually saw a plane crash while working on Metro Airport in Detroit (Romulus)... If people did not get out in the first seconds after crashing they did not get out at all...That was just a little communter plane with a hotdog pilot who did something stupid once too often... With all that, I cannot imagine the sort of disordered grief of a large scale crash... I will tell you this: I have not once run from a fire since, and I never will... And, the smell of burnt and rotting human flesh mingled with the smell of burned seat cushions, insulation off of wires, and burnt aluminum is a sick and terrible smell unique unto itself...
There is a danger in flying... There is a danger in climbing a tree... Life is danger, and it demands courage until we are free of it...We say we are the land of the free and the home of the brave with little proof, but it is our reason for being... We would not exist as a country without courage being a common quality... I am not saying anyone should trust in the kindness of strangers... Strangers are not particularly kind...But we are not entirely strangers to ourselves or to anyone in this world...We have to learn to trust each other if we will ever achieve democracy, or the unity of nation... Since we are little different, even in the areas of self interest, or needs, trust should be possible... But if you find some one who has already doubted their own decision to fly a thousand time between the parking lot and the concourse, they will likely distrust everyone one else, and for that, there is no cure...
The means of dealing death are manifold; and are certainly too numerous to count...Take a marshal arts course and see how vulnerable we are... There is no proper prescription for prevention, and there is only the antidote of preparedness... Anyone who lets their arteries be cut without making an issue of it is already finished... Our bodies are weapons, and defense and offense are everywhere....

Re: Mike Ohr;... I want the man beside me to be carrying a knife... I have carried a knife of good size most of my life, and one in fact that I invariably leave in the car if I must go into a public building, and too large to fly with; but no bear skinner... Some one once asked one of our local legends in Ironwork if he had a knife, and the man asked him back if he had his pants on, because if he had pants on his knife was in the pocket... It was essential for the job... I would always have three things in my pockets guaranteed: Soap stone, which we use to mark iron for oxy-acytal cutting, tip cleaners for a good sharp cut (with little slag) and a pocket knife, which was necessary for rope which we used a lot, but also would open a can of welding rod, or scribe steel... I am Catholic, so naturally, I would make the sign of the cross before leaving the house... It wasn't about religion, really...It was to make sure I had everything: Spectacle (safety glasses), testicle (you know what they are good for), Watch, and wallet... Without them you may as well go back home...
Seriously; perfection is beyond us, but civility is not... We cannot ever have perfect justice, or perfect cause for trust...Yet; enough of justice and enough of reason for trust is enough to keep society functioning... The danger of terrorism is slight, and so in fact is the danger from random assaults in public facilites...We have to fear inlaws more than outlaws because they are so emotionally invested...And if it seems that I am saying people are rational, I am not... Still, what is wanting in most people is not the means to attack us, but the cause... They may have no reason to care for us; but no reason to do anything against us short of a good cause...
On the other hand; when we let our natural fear of strangers motivate us into disarming another socially, we are sending him a message that is far from polite... We are saying; that while I may see you for twenty minutes a day is a controlled situation, I want you unarmed, and undefended through your whole day which may be mostly uncontrolled...
Having been attacked with knife, and having a pretty three inch scar on the back of my arm to prove it, and having also been in a situation or two where it was prudent to draw a knife for show without attacking anyone, I can tell you that there are few situations you can actually cut yourself out of... People have to learn to avoid dangerous situations rather than try to make all possible situations undangerous...
One of my neighbors who owned about two city lots complained to me about one of our neighbors who had erected a fence with a gate opening onto his land...I said he wanted that as much as the man who had it, because it opened both ways, and that each person was the defense of the others rights and property...What if some burning brush blew onto his land??? Would he rather that he lost all his timber because his neighbor had to climb a fence with a bucket of water??? What if others were trespassing??? Would it not be better to make their aquaintance, and find their intention??? You see that in the matter of property as in all rights; we either support them- and have them mutually, or we attack them until no one can be certain of their own... The trend for a long time in America has been to attack rights, and not to assert them universally...

Re: Mark Havent heard of any trains or busses taking out buildings and killing thousands. False argument.

Re: James A, Sweeney Whew! I don't want your life. I guess your argument is: the only thing that stops a bad man with a knife is a good man with a knife. Hmmm I know I've heard something similar to that somewhere.

Re: Mike Ohr
The argument presented goes to your expressed discomfort at having the guy in close personal proximity to you ("next to me") carrying a small knife. If your argument is for him using to take over the plane, 911 style, then the problem is with him being anywhere on the plane, not "next to" you. My argument is that your personal risk from close proximity to a person of unknown intent, and potentially possessing a pen knife, would be quite similar to your risk in many other public places. If by "next to me" you meant "on the same plane with me", then the argument is back to the actual risk posed by a guy, or or a few guys, with nail clippers, swiss army knives, or the like, to cause an air disaster. In a post 911 world, that risk is essentially zero, and the bad guys know it. I know of no post 911 terror attempt made with knives, certainly no successful one. I do know of several bombing attempts, including the shoe and underpants bomber guys. It is not that I think knives on the planes will add to security, it's just that the TSA should ignore the trivia and focus on real risk - explosives.
.
(Sorry Mr. Shields, that includes the potential hiding place represented by your shampoo bottle. Also, Mr. Shields, please note that a "switchblade" is a locking blade and still banned, no matter what the length.)

Re: Mike Ohr;... A knife is pitiful offense or defense... We have worse things to worry about... The fear of flying which is the fear of crashing is behind this fear of knives... I will grant that no one wants to get cut... How many people realistically want to cut anyone??? There is a real chance of dying because of flight; and the more you fly the greater is your chance... Honestly; fear denied, misplaced fear, fear out of all proportion to the risk, fear as fear is to some, an overwhelming terror without relief cannot be allowed to dominate all of our lives because it obviously dominates a few...
I saw in ironwork this trend to make it a risk free occupation... I believed in tying off; but 100% tie off is a joke that runs up the costs for a whole society and makes getting the job done complete with impedimentia...It will not help those who wish to lower the price by flooding the market with labor... It is still dangerous, and building frustration into does not make it safer, but only more expensive... Most people do not have the mechanical skill even with the courage...You could stap a rocket belt on them and a parachute, and they would still not get off the ground...
I think, if people are afraid to fly it is with just cause, but adding to the hassel of it for everyone else is simply not the answer... Deal with your primary fear... I do not think it takes all that much courage to live, and I say that knowing extraordinary courage has been my curse and my bread and butter... I ask: What is the true fear behind this curtain of fear I associate with one event or activity... If it is death, then life is the greater fear; but that is rationalizing...
We almost all have that essential courage, so that when faced with death we can say: Okay, I am going to die now, and say your pater nostre, and get to work... To face death day after day with periods between to really consider it, and consider as well running away is truly existential... What are we about??? What are we doing with our lives??? What is the meaning of it??? How can I rationalize it so when I see myself in my mirror I do not think I have caught sight of a madman??? It concentrates the mind... We need to rationalize... Reason makes us bigger than death, for the moment, even though we know death will win...
It is not too much to ask our fellow citizens to not become the prisoners of their fears altogether, to rationalize, to consider the odds, measure the risk, and say their prayers, and know ultimately that they did not surrender their souls or their rational minds to their fears...Look at the way some of these journalist manipulate and play upon people's fear... Look at the way government has played upon people's fear to endanger us all with a greater threat of tyranny... Look at the immorality we have allowed our government in our names out of our own insane fears, when the fear for the condition of our eternal souls would have been better considered...

There will always be children and weaklings among us who will shiver at the thought of monsters... We cannot for this very reason let those who are the weakest of mind and the least courageous among us- rule us...If people think they need a cop on every corner, and a prison on every block, they have found a prison in their own homes... They do not need a cop, but a shrink... This is true of many who own guns with the expressed purpose of self defense... If you so fear your fellow human beings then the world needs to fear you... It is the scared dog that bites...

Re: Mike Ohr... You know; some times I don't want my life either; but it is the only one I've got....
Thanks...Sweeney