'Tween 12 and 20 by Dr. Robert Wallace

LW1: Understand that "when time allows" is going to be in short supply for at least a few years, and in the meantime, you and your child are dependent on someone to provide. That is what your parents are concerned about; that he (and his family) hold all the cards. I know it seems distant now, but a new baby and lack of funds put a huge stress on any relationship, and it's impossible to know how he (or you) will react in the moment.

Please make that degree a priority, attending online classes if necessary.

LW2:

"He and I don't agree on anything, and I'm not happy being anywhere near him. I love my mom, but why she married this guy is a mystery to me. He is a despicable human being!"

So the two of you disagree on everything, it seems, and he's a "despicable" human being.

Well, what makes him "despicable"? Surely, it's not because you "don't agree on anything," because that doesn't make him despicable. It sounds like you're a Daffy Duck fan if that's all you believe.

The fact is, you don't list anything that makes your stepfather despicable – not even watching Daffy Duck cartoons all day. It just sounds as though the two of you don't get along, but that he doesn't do anything else that makes him despicable.

If the two of you can't get along, then maybe it is time to get out. After all, if I understand Dr. Wallace correctly, you are emancipated so you are considered an "adult" and not subject to the laws he cites.

That said, unless your stepfather *truly is* a despicable human being – i.e., he uses your mother as a punching bag, he abuses you, he's a dangerous alcoholic (and again, since you state none of this or any other examples that call him into question, I cannot say he's a bad person) – do try to reach out to him and see if there is some way you can get along.

Bobaloo, I'm taking LW2 at her word. I've seen enough letters to advice columnis through the years, and comments made in BTL, to know that evil stepparents certainly do exist. Especially those who have no parenting skills and regard their spouse's kids from the first marriage as an inconvenience. It is too bad more parents don't consider their kids when finding a new spouse, but for whatever reason, they often don't. Dr. Wallace had one within the last year or so from a teen who said her mother's boyfriend was attempting to grab her and warned her that if she told her mom, he would tell the mom that the daughter had come on to him.

I am not saying LW's stepfather did anything of the sort, but it IS a terrible thing when you feel unsafe in your own home... or even when you feel tense and on edge in your home because you are in conflict with someone whose standing in the household is above yours. Your home should be a refuge from the world, a place where you feel safe.

I'd say Dr. Wallace's answer was very good. In fact, once LW is out of the house, she may just find it makes enough difference in her emotional state that she no longer needs to disagree with him about everything, but can smile serenely and Let.It. Go. IOW,get along better with him, without feeling like she's sacrificing her principles and her soul.

So am I the only one who thinks that a girl who sees pregnancy as "the most surprising shock of her life" and makes no mention of how it could have happened (ie, something like "after all, we used birth control every single time and knew how to use it" or any indication that it was indeed a surprise, since they were taking all sorts of precautions...being so young, I would not have been surprised if they did not use contraceptives, or were not using them properly), may be too young to raise a child? Am I the only person who thinks that the choice to marry and raise this child is too rash and immature? The girl made no mention of loving this guy, mentioning how responsible he is, how committed is he to her. Unfortunately, unless we are talking of exceptional and extremely mature, with an extremely supportive network of friends and relatives, young couples who marry just because she is pregnant rarely last more than a couple of years. Since she is seeing it all through simplistic, idealistic terms and seems to have no idea of the difficulties and stresses of raising a child on one (smallish, very likely) income, she will likely have no idea how to cope with the difficulties that will arise. She will likely end up divorced and a single mother.
Abortion is a touchy subject, but your parents are absolutely right - you are too young and likely too immature to take on that responsibility. You are not making the right choice by any way, because you do not seem to have seriously explored other options that do not involve having the baby or keeping it, and you seem to have a completely unrealistic idea of the realities of raising a kid. It may sound like blasphemy to many, but abortion does not mean you cannot be a mother when you are older and more mature. There are way too many kids out there suffering because their mothers thought that marriage was the magical and only solution and only solution to a pregnancy

Yeah, two teens having a baby is just SO cool! I bet she's going to get a bunch of pretty clothes to dress her baby up in, right! Wow. It's so cool!

How long before HIS parents get tired of supporting you? How long before you both start to resent the baby for the loss of your fun times? How long before the kid gets dumped on the grandparents?

Re: hedgehog (#4)

So you're taking her at her "word," even when there's no evidence other than they "don't agree on anything" that they don't like each other, eh?

And you thought I jump to conclusions.

Look, I agree it could be true that he just simply doesn't think of her as a person (i.e., has poor people and/or parenting skills), but even that doesn't make him "despicable." The disagreeing on things big could be as mild as Archie Bunker-esque opinions (not necessarily bad ones, but "outdated" beliefs) that she strongly opposes.

I also don't doubt that some teens write in about "parents from hell," or situations such as you described in an actual letter (the mother's boyfriend intimidating her into silence by claiming the reverse of an attempted sexual situation occurred). There's just no evidence of that happening in THIS letter.

I think you and I agreed that the LW should move out. Me because it is apparent they can't get along, and you I'd think for much the same reasons. But even if the disagree on everything, I do think her stepfather has done what he could to make sure she's safe ... but it's apparent that was not enough to remove the "despicability" stigma from his head because they "don't agree on anything."

So enough about this latest "potato, po-tah-toe" thing ... I turn it to the LW. If you are reading this, I ask the obvious question: "What is it specifically that makes your father 'despicable'?" And depending on the answer (and I'd press for a real answer, not a vague one such as what she gave), I'd ask: "Can you tell me ONE (just one) good thing about your stepfather?"

Back to you hedgehog. Your comment, "I've seen enough letters to advice columnists through the years, and comments made in BTL, to know that evil stepparents certainly do exist." I don't disagree, but OK, now you know where I'm coming from with the past day's letter about the teen who snuck out, and my suggestion that she and her boyfriend were out to get drunk or have sex ... even if it was for another reason, I've seen enough of my suggestions to know that this DOES exist. (And having worked for a boss (from the past) who also believed that sneaking out "to party" goes on more often than we want to believe also has influenced my opinion.)

R, I am no fan of teen marriages, but she does indeed make mention of loving this young man, which you blew right by (probably because you don't think of it as anything "real" at this age).

There are some teen marriages that last. This young man apparently DOES have a family network that has rallied to support the young couple; he has a job -- and apparently had not planned on college after high school graduation. There are many people out there who never do go to college who are good, loving, responsible parents; my husband was raised by two of them.

I understand her parents' dismay, and I, too, am pro-choice. But forcing their daughter to have an abortion is wrong, too, and could result in lifelong estrangement.

While I hope her marriage lasts, the odds are that at some point there will be stress -- everyone has it. They're determined to have the child and marry, so the real problem, as I see it is that she's boxing herself in with no options and entirely dependent on her husband and his family. It's imperative that she be able to support herself and the child should he run off and leave her or even should he become ill or die.

It makes life much harder for her. But that is her right to make that choice.

But even if the disagree on everything, I do think her stepfather has done what he could to make sure she's safe
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And why, exactly, do you think that?

She's said nothing to support that AT ALL. In fact, what he's doing with the threats of arrest is power-tripping. Which pretty much supports her whole "despicable" label.

LW sounds pretty level-headed, intelligent and mature for her age to me -- she put in the extra effort to get her high school degree early, she's gainfully employed, and she has a legitimate offer from her friend's parents to move in with them. The last bit is important; it suggests to me that her friend's parents understand that she's a good kid and that the guy is not just some guy spouting unpopular opinions, but that there is some merit to her claims that he is "despicable".

There are LWs I do not take at their word; their immaturity and self-centeredness shines through enough to make them, for me, unreliable narrators.

This LW, though, is not one of them. She's obviously aware of how to get along with people, and it's pretty rude, IMO, to tell her to try to play nice with the guy when we have no evidence that she has NOT tried to do so. If she says he is despicable, I'm with her.

Back to you hedgehog. Your comment, "I've seen enough letters to advice columnists through the years, and comments made in BTL, to know that evil stepparents certainly do exist." I don't disagree, but OK, now you know where I'm coming from with the past day's letter about the teen who snuck out, and my suggestion that she and her boyfriend were out to get drunk or have sex ... even if it was for another reason, I've seen enough of my suggestions to know that this DOES exist.
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Sure it does.

But in this case, you are hell-bent on showing that she may be labeling the stepfather "despicable" simply because they don't agree on anything. I don't think she is. She goes so far as to say she doesn't know why her mom married him -- which indicates the guy may not be treating her mom well, and that's an issue well beyond "we disagree on everything."

But really, we don't need to know whether this guy steals her spare change, kicks the dog, tries to grope her or calls her stupid. I don't think it's important that she be able to name one good thing about him.

What's important: She has not been able to make the situation livable: it's beyond her power. She has drive to achieve her goals and maturity enough to ignore the temptations to go for instant gratification. And she has some people skills, given that she 1) has friends 2) gets good tip money and 3) has an offer from the friend's PARENTS to live there. She's not making complaints that indicate he does have her best interests at heart, i.e., "he's so mean! he makes me do my homework and clean my room and do the dishes and I have to be home at midnight from my dates!"

I never said this stepfather is doing the molesting, BTW. I'm only saying that kids can find themselves living with people who don't have their best interests at heart, so it makes no sense to assume this stepfather DOES have her best interest at heart.

In the previous situation, if you read my initial response, I AGREED that some teens sneak out to drink and have sex. My issue with you is that you assumed those were the ONLY reasons, and there are kids who sneak out for OTHER reasons.Addressing the LW as if those two were the reasons when you don't know is insulting.

If I were to take a scrap of fact here in your writing, and build an entire scenario around it that assumed a whole bunch of things about your life, you would doubtless find it insulting... and very possibly wrong.

You're doing the same thing to these teens. You are telling this columjn's LW: "Oh, it can't possibly be that bad! I'm sure he's doing all he can to make sure you're safe! Have you tried being nicer?"

When it's quite possible that he IS stealing tips, kicking dog, etc, etc. You don't know what the guy's like. You shouldn't assume he's got her best interests at heart.

Re: hedgehog (#9)

Not to beat a dead horse, but she's just too vague for my tastes. I dunno.

Of course if he were to do any of those things that you suggest he possibly could be doing -- stealing tips, kicking the dog, verbally insulting the mother and treating her like dirt, and so forth -- then yes, I'd definitely suggest move out at the earliest opportunity. But if by what she's referring to in her comment, "I don't know why she married him" he's just an oaf and has poor social graces (i.e., he burps and farts at the table, cracks a George Carlin-esque joke now and then, even if he doesn't shave and has an unkempt appearance, smokes cigars and plays poker with "similar" friends, etc.), then that doesn't make him despicable.

But I thought I suggested that anyhow, just for their general inability to get along. Make no mistake -- we ARE on the same page there, the moving out part. And I will climb on board with you when it comes to her people skills, such as what you spell out.

Whatever she's learned from her poor relations with her stepfather, no matter how mundane, Archie Bunker-esque bad or REALLY BAD (that he's a complete asshole and abusive drunk) it may be, let's just hope it makes her stronger.

Re: hedgehog (#8)

"There are LWs I do not take at their word; their immaturity and self-centeredness shines through enough to make them, for me, unreliable narrators."

Well, the same for me -- and for just about everyone who comments BTL. The column the other day about the teen who snuck out to be with her boyfriend was one of those "immature" and self-centered teens, IMO, who did not understand (at least at the time she wrote the letter) why her parents grounded her. She just couldn't wait to be off her grounding and be back with her boyfriend. I saw that clearly.

To be fair, I don't think that's true with the teen-ager with the stepfather she detests for whatever reason. I think she's mature and honest about herself, but I do think she's a little vague.

Just like when you go into court unprepared: You may be right, but if you can't prove you've been wronged with evidence or specific examples, I have no choice but to not agree with you.

The column the other day about the teen who snuck out to be with her boyfriend was one of those "immature" and self-centered teens, IMO, who did not understand (at least at the time she wrote the letter) why her parents grounded her. She just couldn't wait to be off her grounding and be back with her boyfriend. I saw that clearly.
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Well, you think you saw that clearly, but you didn't give sufficient evidence to convince me.

I didn't see "just couldn't wait to be off her grounding." I saw someone who agreed that her grounding was fair and was prepared to serve it -- a mature and unself-centered reaction to her immature, selfish sneaking out, and an attitude that indicates some emotional and intellectual growth -- but who thought not being able to see her boyfriend after the grounding had been served was unfair.

THAT part is not necessarily immature or self-centered; the punishment may well have been an overreaction on her parents' part to forbid that they see each other, if the grounding served its purpose of teaching her the importance of not sneaking. There isn't enough evidence to suggest that this is an appropriate or just punishment, and it's not immature or self-centered to be upset in the case of unjust punishment. All the hypotheticals you provided were that only, not evidence and quite possibly irrelevant, and so it's inappropriate for us to argue that the punishment was just and that she should therefore "get over it."

Dr. Wallace suggested that she could make an attempt to change their minds, but to recognize that she may need to live with the not seeing the boyfriend, even if it this an unjust punishment.

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To be fair, I don't think that's true with the teen-ager with the stepfather she detests for whatever reason. I think she's mature and honest about herself, but I do think she's a little vague.
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This was not the only letter in this edition of the column. It's very, very possible that Dr. Wallace edited out details you would have liked, but kept in only the essence of what he thought a reader would need to judge his advice to her: the fact that she has a job, does well at it, graduated from high school early and thus has some intelligence, and is being threatened by a stepfather she doesn't get along with,

He's threatening her with arrest, Bobaloo -- not to "keep her safe" as you suggested, but to exert control, to prevent gossip among friends and family about why she left, and because his wife doesn't want her daughter to leave. He knows she's got a safe place to stay -- and his reaction to that is to tell her he will have them arrested, too!

Those threats, combined with the evidence establishing that she's responsible, mature and self-supporting, means I don't need to her to spell out more of what makes him despicable in her eyes, because I have enough evidence to advise that she get out of the house and live where she is more comfortable. Since you agreed with Dr. Wallace and me on the moving out, I'm not sure why it matters whether he kicked the dog or just quoted Bible verses all day long or stole her change. You agree it's best for her to get out. That's the bottom line.

Re: hedgehog (#12)

"He's threatening her with arrest, Bobaloo -- not to 'keep her safe' as you suggested, but to exert control, to prevent gossip among friends and family about why she left, and because his wife doesn't want her daughter to leave. He knows she's got a safe place to stay -- and his reaction to that is to tell her he will have them arrested, too!"

Well, let's say he does actually call the police and try to have her arrested. I think we agree that, unless he's buddies with the police chief, he'd likely be told why no arrest could take place. Even if she does leave, talk is going to take place. For all I know, he's misinformed about the law of emancipation and what rights she may have ... and not necessarily some power-hungry guy who's trying to keep his step-daughter under his thumb.

"Dr. Wallace suggested that she could make an attempt to change their minds, but to recognize that she may need to live with the not seeing the boyfriend, even if it this an unjust punishment. "

OK, if you were this girl's mother, would you recommend allowing her to see her boyfriend again, even though he's breached your trust? I don't think I would.

"This was not the only letter in this edition of the column. It's very, very possible that Dr. Wallace edited out details you would have liked, but kept in only the essence of what he thought a reader would need to judge his advice to her:"

Perhaps – but I'm not viewing those details (if any) as "details you would have liked." I thought I gave a very level-headed response, and you don't think so. OK, I can live with that, but it's the fact that you're ready to convict someone – deservedly so or not – without being fair.

Look, sorry if the two of us disagree so strongly on this and the other letter, but I think we're almost at a stalemate here.

BTW hedgehog – I just chose not to respond to this column's LW1. I just can't make sense of it and besides, you did give some advice better than I could. I do wish this couple luck, however.

For all I know, he's misinformed about the law of emancipation and what rights she may have ... and not necessarily some power-hungry guy who's trying to keep his step-daughter under his thumb.
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Make no mistake, this is not some benign misunderstanding. This is an active threat to keep her in line through fear, designed to prevent her from taking her friend's parents up on the offer.He may be misinformed yes... but why would he mention this to her unless he wants her to think that he won't hesitate to get her (and them) arrested? And that he would press charges? He's not telling her this in case the police happen to find out that she's living in violation of the law -- he is telling her HE will be the one who makes sure the police know that she is violating it.

And that's what's reprehensible.

I'm not "convicting" anyone, Bobaloo. I'm saying he's chosen a poor tactic -- intimidation -- to try to keep her where she doesn't wish to be. It's a stupid technique when dealing with anyone, let alone a bright, mature and hardworking teen who is months away from becoming an adult. It's a last-ditch, desperate ploy; it doesn't speak well of his conflict resolution or parenting skills.

I rarely believe anyone is all good or all bad, and I'm sure the stepdad has SOME redeeming qualities, if that means anything to you.

However, LW is not in a place to appreciate any redeeming qualities he may have. His despicable may well outweigh the good: we don't know, and since there are no names or identifying details provided, it's not as if I am libeling or convicting the guy to say that I think she needs to get out of that situation now. And it may well have been the columnist, not the LW, being "vague".

Since the guy's anonymous, and since my saying that he MIGHT be despicable doesn't send him off to jail, I don't see the harm in not arguing with the LW on her word choice, though. I think it's a distraction to the important advice in the situation -- which is that what he told her was wrong, and she should go. Arguing with her about her word choice, when she's in this mindset, isn't likely to sway her to say, "oh, well, he's just socially embarrassing is all. I guess I can stay!"

It's a pick-your-battle situation; sometimes you let the lesser ones go to save your ammo for the more important ones.

And thank you for the kind words on LW1.

Re: hedgehog (#15)

"I rarely believe anyone is all good or all bad, and I'm sure the stepdad has SOME redeeming qualities, if that means anything to you."

And I hope that, perhaps with some time apart, she can see that, if he does have some. But if there is just a poor relationship between the two, whatever the reason ... I don't know.

OK, if you were this girl's mother, would you recommend allowing her to see her boyfriend again, even though he's breached your trust? I don't think I would.
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Hard to say, Bobaloo. This IS a case where I'd need more info (!) and here's why:

You suggested earlier on that thread that the parents might disapprove of him for corrupting their daughter. But as the mom of teen sons, I know that sometimes it's the young women who are out there pushing the boundaries, and yes, corrupting nice young men. I recognize that there are some times when kids get caught up in the moment (like the rest of us) and make decisions they regret, and learn from those mistakes.

I wouldn't want to judge him on this one mistake, anymore than I''d judge my entire daughter this way (or want HIS parents to judge her that way) and I know myself well enough to understand that sometimes I can overreact in the heat of the moment. I attempt to moderate that when I've had a chance to reflect and absorb new info that I might not have had originally.

Maybe even more important: Forbidding contact backfires. It makes the young lovers determined to triumph and it encourages MORE sneaking around to outwit the evil forces that keep them apart (in layman's terms, that's the parents!)

So I'd probably be receptive to listening if they wanted to persuade me that they'd learned their lessons. It certainly would not be the same amount of freedom she'd enjoyed to see him previously, at least not until I was sure he understood the magnitude of my worry and fears, and regretted the behavior that caused them.

As Dr. Wallace mentioned, it would be slow. I would require that they see each other at our home initially to help rebuild my trust in them -- having dinner with us, watching TV, playing games -- and encourage him to see me as a person rather than an abstract concept. We'd have some talks, for sure, about my hopes for my daughter's future, his plans for his own future, and how he could accomplish his goals.

He might have ZERO interest in that, and dump my daughter, in which case, good riddance; it's then on him (not me) that they broke up.

But if he DOES value my daughter's company, he will strive to prove himself worthy of it.

Here's the thing, Bobaloo: at 17, she's a minor but she's very close to adulthood.In a few short months, she will be able to marry this young man if she choose.

She may even go so far as to urge him to get her pregnant, just to prove that her parents don't have the upper hand they think they do.

You can't parent a 17 YO the same way you parent a 13 YO, and you can't parent a 13 YO the same way you do a 3 YO. At least, not if you're hoping to teach them to think for themselves rather than act out of pure emotion, and if you want them to remain as part of your life even after they're adults.