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Most Grandparents Are Wise
DR. WALLACE: I have been reading your column for a long time, and I have noticed that many teens resent their grandparents when they are old and come to live with their family. Some of the teens complain about how "nosey" their grandmother is and how their grandfather always wants to watch sports on TV, and some complain that their grandparents embarrass them in front of their friends.
Not long ago, my grandmother came to live at our house. She was in a wheelchair and always wanted to be in the family room where everybody else was because she didn't want to miss anything. This was OK with me, but when my friends or a date came over, she always wanted to talk to them and ask a lot of questions. She always wanted to know where I was going, and she was always telling me what I should do. After a while, I became annoyed and wished she would move into a retirement home.
Then one day she got sick and had to go to the hospital. I thought she would just be gone for a week or so and looked forward to a few days without her. However, when she suddenly had a heart attack and died, I was shocked and saddened. After a couple of weeks, I found I really missed her. I realized that I had not considered her feelings. She probably felt like an intruder, and she was trapped in her wheelchair in poor health, a lonely widow dependent on our family for everything.
So I'd like to tell teens that they should take the time to get to know their grandparents who come to live in their home when they are old. I know you will sometimes think that they just don't understand today's teenagers, but be patient and smile when you speak with them. Ask them about their early lives, and you will learn from their experiences.
I'm really sorry that I didn't do more for my own grandmother, but now it's too late to tell her I loved her. —Nameless, Seattle, Wash.
NAMELESS: Thanks for sharing your experience with our teen readers. Many grandmothers and grandfathers will get a big hug and an "I love you" today because of your letter.
Most grandparents are very observant and wise. Even though you and your grandmother had your disagreements, deep down she knew you loved her, and she loved you.
SOME RUMORS ARE NOT TRUE
DR. WALLACE: A girl recently moved into our neighborhood and started attending our school. She invited a few of us girls to a slumber party next week to get acquainted. My best friend and I were both invited, and I was looking forward to going and to have the new girl as a friend because she seemed to be very nice.
My friend Jan called me last night and told me she wasn't going to the party. When I asked her why, she said that she heard that the new girl was involved in sex and drugs at her old school and had a bad reputation. Do you think this could be true? My friend and this new girl and I are all only 13 years old.
I don't know what to do because I'm not that kind of girl, and I sure don't want to ruin my reputation by going to her party. What do you think I should do? —Nameless, Tulsa, Okla.
NAMELESS: Rumors have a way of being both vicious and unfair. Sometimes they are motivated by jealousy. I think you should plan on attending the party. It will be a good way for you to make up your own mind about the new girl. If for some reason you don't feel comfortable with what is going on at the party, you can simply call your parents and have them take you home. Be sure to tell your parents that you may need a ride earlier than the expected time so you will be assured of your ride home.
Dr. Robert Wallace welcomes questions from readers. Although he is unable to reply to all of them individually, he will answer as many as possible in this column. Email him at rwallace@galesburg.net. To find out more about Dr. Robert Wallace and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate website at www.creators.com.
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14 Comments | Post Comment
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LW1: Sometimes old school isn't too bad, and I'm glad you're realizing that now, in hindsight. Yes, I know it might have been annoying for your grandmother to be in the "center" of your activity, but what exactly were you hoping to do? Have sex or play pornographic games in the living room while Mom and Dad weren't home? Chat online with strangers that turn out to be adults? Watch smutty movies and get drunk?
OK, those are extreme, but you get the idea – your grandmother wants to keep you out of trouble and to make sure your friends are toeing the line. (Hence, her asking questions about the kids she doesn't know, screening dates by asking questions to boys she didn't know, etc.) BTW – my remarks assume the LW is a girl.
And she wanted to socialize and be with people. That was likely her very nature. I'm glad that you're cutting her some slack ... I just wish it weren't in hindsight.
LW2: I think that the arrangement of "calling for a ride, just in case you need to leave early" is sage advice even if this is a mundane party.
That said, think for a second about why your new friend transferred to your school. Yes, it could be just because her mother/father got a new job and it's just someone trying to lie about someone they don't know. The rumors could be stories blown way out of proportion – Facebook and Twitter posts sometimes have a habit of doing this. Or, if indeed she had a dark past that gave her a bad reputation at her old school, her parents are moving her to give her a fresh start, away from the bad influences and that she is getting counseling and other assistance to repent and start anew.
Either way, I'd suggest exactly what Dr. Wallace says: Go to the party and get to know your new friend. If she is indeed a good person, you'll find out right away. If she's indeed someone to avoid, you'll find out in short order, too.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Bobaloo
Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:21 AM
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LW1: You were right to be annoyed. At her age she should have been more aware of herself and how others react to her. BUT apparently she wasted all those precious years not evolving or growing as a person. This old wise people tale is ridiculous. Most people don't grow wise they just grow old. I hope you make your life choices more intelligently. Also, stop choosing to let your guilt control you - pull your head out of your butt - life is brighter that way.
LW2: I think you should stop being an idiot and a pack animal. Humans shouldn't herd. Why don't you learn to make your own choices? Also, learn to treat people the way you want to be treated. Stop expecting better than you give. We have enough of those kind on this planet.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Diana
Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:40 PM
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Bobaloo -- I've been a teen and also the mother of 3 teens. Still have one at home.
So I'm pretty sure that LW didn't resent her grandma's presence because it prevented her, her date and her friends from getting drunk, watching porn or making out. Seriously. (Where you get this stuff I do not know, but it sounds like you watch too much teen drama on TV or in the movies.)
LW was simply embarrassed by Grandma, because teens are overly self-conscious about what their friends think.,.of them, their homes, their families.
Here's a much more likely look into LW's thoughts: "OMG, I can't BELIEVE Grandma's asking about Linda's parents -- Linda's so sensitive about her dad walking out on her mom last year..." "OMG, Grandma blows her nose so LOUDLY!" "OMG, Grandma, please stop talking about the election -- what do you know about it?" "OMG, Grandma, we're not babies -- we know if we need a jacket" "OMG, Grandma, PLEASE don't say 'jive' ever again." "OMG, my friends are never going to come over here again, the way she's grilling them." "Jeez, Grandma, ALL the boys wear their hair like that now -- it's called 'style'".
Most wise parents understand that their very existence is an embarrassment to their teen; they're not the "cool" parents the teen would have chosen for themselves. They also know their teens love them.
LW1, that's what Dr. Wallace meant when he talked about grandparents being wise. They remember the embarrassment their own parents brought them; they remember the way their teens were embarrassed, and they know that your current embarrassment is more a reflection of your stage of development than its your deepest feelings toward them.
And that's why you can ease up on yourself, LW. It's good that you've developed some empathy -- now use it going forward in your other relationships rather than beating yourself up about what you didn't do for your Grandma. That's learning and growing, and it would make your grandma proud.
Comment: #3
Posted by: hedgehog
Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:49 AM
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Re: hedgehog (#3)
Not saying you're wrong – that Grandma is just being "herself" and what you state – but it is apparent you missed the follow-up comment: "OK, THOSE ARE EXTREME, but you get the idea – your grandmother wants to keep you out of trouble and to make sure your friends are toeing the line." Meaning, just like her own parents, Grandma – right or wrong – thinks of herself as a parent who reinforces her son/daughter and S/DIL values and raisings when they're not home/at work/etc.
But since my grandma never lived with us when I was growing up – I was out of college when she finally got assisted living, and then went to a nursing home – I never endured the minor "embarrassment" of having her around, asking questions and all that. Yes, I know the remarks about "OMG, Grandma, we're not babies -- we know if we need a jacket" are irritating, but I hardly think she'd ask about a sensitive family situation unless she cared and knew that it wouldn't offend her. All that other stuff can be irritating (e.g., the "jive" remark), but it's minor and I'd have forgotten about it later. If the LW didn't, then she's too sensitive.
And no, I do not get this from watching teen dramas or anything. I don't have time to watch most of that crap on TV. It's just an active imagination and adds spice to an otherwise boring response. And we're NOT serious advice givers, although we do hope that our readers read our advice.
The fact was, Grandma wanted to get to know your friends and socialize with them and be their friends ... BECAUSE IT WAS HER NATURE!!! Perhaps she wanted to do her part and "screen" them too (which, BTW, if it wasn't her place to do so, the LW's parents would have called her on that long before; fortunately, there was no indication that she was asked to stop asking these questions, whatever they were).
Comment: #4
Posted by: Bobaloo
Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:39 PM
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but it is apparent you missed the follow-up comment: "OK, THOSE ARE EXTREME, but you get the idea – your grandmother wants to keep you out of trouble and to make sure your friends are toeing the line."
********
No, I didn't miss it.
I just think when you reach for the absurd/extreme, you run the risk of losing your reader, who assumes that you think this is true of all teens. You don't need to "add spice to an otherwise boring response" -- to the writer, and apparently those of us who are bothering to read, this is not boring at all. And any cook will tell you that you need to be careful with spice lest it overpower the dish and be the only memorable thing about it.
I certainly wasn't arguing that Grandma INTENDED to be irritating or embarrass the teen. Parents and grandparents, just by their existence, irritate/embarrass -- even something as innocuous as "how was your day, hon?" can set it off. (truly— been there) and of course in my example, Granny didn't know the parents had split or that Friend was sensitive. It was an ordinary question... but solely because of Teen's mindset, she saw it as intrusive and embarrassing and horrible for her friend.
***The fact was, Grandma wanted to get to know your friends and socialize with them and be their friends ******
Um, no. Grandma didn't want to befriiend LW's teens -- she was being FRIENDLY.
There is a difference. . I did not want to befriend and socialize with any of my kids' friends. These are not people I will call up and go to a movie with or suggest we try out a new restaurant.
But I am polite to them, and behave in a friendly manner -- as I would wish other adults to treat MY teens. When someone is in your home, even if it is not YOUR friend specifically, you treat them courteously, which means making conversation and not ignoring them (even if your teen prefers that you just pretend to be part of the furniture).
Granny may have been "screening" -- just as likely, she was looking for clues into LW's personality and behavior, insights like "what does LW like so much about this person?" or "This girl doesn't seem to care that she's flunking algebra -- that is odd, because grades have always been so important to LW."
Adults look for these kinds of markers/insights as another source of info about their teen because as kids go off to school and then through puberty, and learn to filter their thoughts, you know much less about them than you do a toddler or preschooler. It''s almost instinctive; most parents probably couldn't articulate that this is what they're doing. But it's another way of keeping tabs on who your teen is and is becoming.
Comment: #5
Posted by: hedgehog
Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:49 PM
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Re: hedgehog (#5)
"And any cook will tell you that you need to be careful with spice lest it overpower the dish and be the only memorable thing about it."
Except that you know by now, as you've seen on the other boards I comment on, that this is my commenting style. Nothing harmful about it – not intended to be taken seriously.
And these comment boards for advice columnists is different, as you may guess, than newspaper reporting. Different, in that if we add "too much spice," not only do we overpower the dish (to use your words), we also risk playing loose and free with the facts, telling things in a light that may not necessarily be true. In the very least, they're exaggerations, and in the very worse, blatant inaccuracies and (worse yet) lies. None of that's good in newspapering.
Here, on a comment board where everyone is anonymous, we each use our own perspective on things. Yes, we still base them on fact. My perspective is that sometimes (SOMETIMES, meaning not always), teens try to see what they can get away with, and then get annoyed and can't wait for the authority figures – e.g., in this case, Grandma – to leave the room so they can follow through with whatever mischief they've got planned. I know it sounds extreme, but sometimes, it's easy to see teenagers in that light, even if your teens grew up and didn't try to sneak around to see what they could do and get away with.
Your perspective, if I'm reading it right, is that teens are rarely like that, that they sneak around and try to flout the established rules, but are still annoyed by Grandma's mere presence because, by that mere presence, she's embarrassing and annoying and will ask questions that may seem logical to her but make you look like an idiot. Which is true, too.
And FWIW, yes, I did feel that way sometimes with my mother. Still do, sometimes, I admit, but that's how mothers are ... they're supposed to ask you to wash your hands when you come into the house (a big pet peeve of mine) and if you're getting along at work and so forth.
It is, however, my bad for confusing friendship with being friendly, polite, etc. You've got me there ... although if she does make a friend, then I guess that's a fringe benefit of it all. I do also agree that Grandma was trying to see what kind of a kid that her precious granddaughter was becoming, which is about what you said.
Either way, I think you and I have both agreed that Grandma loved her granddaughter, and hopefully the reverse was also true. (I think it was all along, despite her feelings of, well, annoyment, for lack of a better term.) Again, to truly appreciate it ... it's still in hindsight, otherwise I don't think she would be writing to share her, "Take it from me, I wish I had ... " story.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Bobaloo
Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:51 PM
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Bobaloo, I understand about writing differently for different media; I was in newspapering for more than 25 years, I've been in magazine editing for 10, and I've been on USENET and other internet forums since about 1995.
A wise writing teacher once told me that good writers often learn as much or more about improving their writing from their critics as from their fans, and it is to that end that I'm pursuing this. Here's my problem with "spicing it up". Regardless of where a person writes, the goal is communication of some sort. You repeatedly choose to take things to the extreme, often when doing so is a distraction to your main point, and that costs you credibility -- credibility that you are someone who understands the problem at hand and are offering good advice. This isn't based on my own perception alone, but on other BTLers' who have taken you to task.
Now, I know that some teens plan mischief. Typically, these teens do not plan their mischief in a house where an authority figure is present, but use their newfound mobility to take them to places where they do not expect authority figures to be": the home where both parents are gone on a trip, the back row of the movies, a parked car in a rest stop, woods or a remote field
So it is HIGHLY unlikely that LW was bringing home dates and friends impatient to get into mischief the instant that Grandma rolled her wheelchair into another room, and much more likely that LWwas merely exasperated that Grandma's presence was embarrassing AND prevented their talking freely of important stuff like the skirt Jan wore to school today, the insane thing that happened in algebra and whether Edward or Jacob is cuter.
Your suggesting that LW couldn't wait for Grandma to leave the room so they could make out or smoke pot or whatever really says more about you than it does the teens, who are well aware that Grandma could come right back IN the room and so are unlikely to raid the liquor cabinet or start making out. It's pointless speculation.
There are times for taking things to the extremes. But doing so repeatedly, and in cases like this where it's purely prurient, serve only to detract from your arguments.
Comment: #7
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:03 AM
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Re: hedgehog (#7)
First, thank you for explaining your background. (I guess I had assumed you were a teacher or some other profession, don't know why.) I also understand the lesson about learning about improving writing from what the critics have to say.
Discarding this whole situation, my questions are these:
1. If I don't take things to extreme, would you say I have some credibility? Any credibility at all? Yes or no – and no, not do you necessarily agree or disagree with what I may say, but do you think what I have to say with my core advice (without adding extremes) has credibility?
Asked because I NEVER see you or several of the other posters BTL ever give me one ounce of credit when you do agree with me or my advice isn't full of extreme situations. NONE!
2. When are those times to "take things to extremes"? Obviously, you don't think this was one of those times.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:56 PM
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******1. If I don't take things to extreme, would you say I have some credibility? Any credibility at all? Yes or no – and no, not do you necessarily agree or disagree with what I may say, but do you think what I have to say with my core advice (without adding extremes) has credibility?***************
Yes. I think when you don't speculate and reach for the oddest possibilities,your reasoning is often fine.
****************
Asked because I NEVER see you or several of the other posters BTL ever give me one ounce of credit when you do agree with me or my advice isn't full of extreme situations. NONE!************
Well, I often don't call out someone I agree with, unless I want to expand on it or ask a question. I generally don't say, "Lisa's got this right" and leave it at that. The only exceptions I can think of are when there's almost an even split of opinion on an issue and I want to weigh in.
I guess that's because I think if someone's already said something I agree with, and it hasn't been disputed, there's really nothing more to say. But if someone says something I very much disagree with, I will say why.
***2. When are those times to "take things to extremes"? Obviously, you don't think this was one of those times.***
I think it's most effective when used sparingly and when it makes sense. In this column, it didn't make sense because it's pretty well known that teens are really, really embarrassed by family members, so ridiculing the LW by suggesting she wanted to do something unsavory seemed unfair to me.
It didn't make sense in the Annies column a few days ago to suggest that the husband with zillions of cars was carrying on with a "hottie" -- does it matter if he's cheating with someone who's hot as opposed to homely?
When it does make sense is when you're using reductio ad absurdum (I think that's the name) to point out how illogical the LW's reasoning is, by taking the same argument to an extreme. (and I probably should've checked this before replying, but I late as it is...) So you're using their own reasoning against them by exaggerating the exact same claim they're making, so they can't help but see how illogical they are being.
Comment: #9
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:12 PM
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Re: hedgehog (#9)
I went back and checked the responses I made to the letter about the man with the old cars (readers, I think hedgehog is referring to "Hoard Your Own Cars," Annie's Mailbox, March 11), and did not see anything in my comments about him carrying on with a "hottie" == or having any affair, for that matter. I did suggest that he had some disorder (such as OCD or ADD) or delusion of grandeur that he was going to restore all these cars, that he is probably one that would notice if the wife (the LW in this instance) attempted to or did sell the car and that there may be other issues of control present in the marriage.
Readers -- yes, I have mentioned in a number of other BTL discussions about cheating husbands and dating "hotties" (i.e., good looking young women). I use this example for very good reasons -- and before I go any further, no, hedgehog, it doesn't matter how desirable the mistress is, the fact is he cheated -- and here are those reasons:
* 1. The girlfriend always seems to be someone more attractive (no matter what the age, whether she is in college and behaves in a promiscuous manner, or middle-aged, or older) than his current wife, with whom he perceives something is missing. This includes (but not always or limited to) sexual desirability that is no longer there in the current wife.
* 2. In the case of men hooking up with the "old flame" (who is often his age or very close to it), he's trying to see what he missed. And instead of putting her out of his mind all these years, he now -- perhaps by a chance meeting, or a high school reunion or through social media, among other ways to connect -- has re-connected with the former girlfriend.
Either way, he -- the straying man who no longer remembers his vows or sees his current wife as worthy of being loyal to -- makes the decision to cheat. Not only is he going to try to hide it ... but course he's not going to tell her outright he no longer thinks of her as worthy of his time because the lust died. Why -- because at least he remembers where his bread is buttered, and that saying as such will mean he gets kicked out on his keester and having to do "everything" (the cooking, cleaning/laundry ... all those things the women did ... for himself.
Look, I know it sounds cruel and mean and crude and sexist, and it might even be putting it mildly, and I'm sorry if it is ... but that's my insight into the male cheater. A cold, calculating man who ERRONEOUSLY believes he's "owed" something and always should have his needs satisfied, and that he finds it by going to the younger, more attractive woman. I'll let you figure out what those needs are, but I'll just say they're selfish, hedonistic ones. (Like one of the regulars sometimes says on the Annie's BTL, it's the "Me Tarsan. You Jane. Grunt-grunt. Jane do what Tarsan say" caveman mentality.) And yes, I know that the movie character's name is incorrectly spelled; on the computer I'm using, the key corresponding to the last letter of the alphabet is not working.)
Comment: #10
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:12 PM
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Also hedgehog, on the comment:
"Well, I often don't call out someone I agree with, unless I want to expand on it or ask a question. I generally don't say, "Lisa's got this right" and leave it at that. The only exceptions I can think of are when there's almost an even split of opinion on an issue and I want to weigh in."
Well, I wouldn't expect it all the time. But there are times where a good backup of my opinion would be helpful, particularly if you think it would strengthen my argument. (And I think you stated that in your argument.)
That all said, I think what makes the BTL great is not just it being a place where I can make exaggerated claims (and admittedly do so using an anonymous screen name), but we all have our own, well, quirks that make us unique. The only thing I'll add is that hopefully our good qualities make up for those oddities, whatever they are.
Which, going back to the original LW ... however you see the girl's initial thoughts about her grandmother, the LW hopefully saw that Grandma's good qualities were way more than enough to make up for whatever annoyment (again, for lack of a better term) existed.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:26 PM
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Bobaloo -- here's the thing. I've been reading advice columns long enough to know that sometimes the mistress is NOT younger or more attractive -- that if you put the two women side by side to a vote on their "hotness", the wife would win. Sometimes, she's older, fatter, less well groomed, less fit, less everything the world says an attractive woman should be.
That's why the term "hottie" sounds adolescent. If I was wrong about the specific Annies discussion where you used it gratuitously within the last two weeks, I do apologize. I know that there was a column where the wife was writing about a financial control problem, not a sexual one, and the suggestion was made that he was carrying on with a "hottie".
Also: I'm not meaning to offend you by not backing you up. Please realize I often don't have a chance to read throughout the day, or even every day, and so I am often catching up on 30-40 posts at a time on a popular column. So unless it's a day where I'm able to keep my eye on the conversation as it develops, I tend to say only what I think hasn't been said or could be said more clearly. I don't back up most commenters there. But I will keep an eye out, because yes, it is unfair to regularly criticize without noting that person's well made arguments.
Comment: #12
Posted by: hedgehog
Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:52 AM
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"the LW hopefully saw that Grandma's good qualities were way more to make up for whatever annoyment"....
Well, of course she did. That's what prompted the letter. She was upset that she had treated Grandma as if Grandma were a permanent fixture, who would always be there, and that she therefore had felt free to be annoyed. "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got 'til it's gone..."
She loved Grandma, and Grandma knew that petty adolescent annoyance, while frustrating, is not the sum of the kid's feelings, it's just the one closest to the surface at the moment because the kid is so self-conscious and afraid of looking "wrong" in the eyes of the friends. Parents live for the sweet moments with their teens, however few & far between they are, as they ride out their teen's adolescence; grandparents are even more aware of that then parents
Comment: #13
Posted by: hedgehog
Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:59 AM
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Re: hedgehog
As far as the specific column where it was suggested that the man was having an affair when it was actually about financial control, frankly I've forgotten too. See how things go sometimes with these columns. Maybe it just wasn't that important enough to me to remember ... I just remembered the one about the old junked cars when you mentioned something about the LW's husband owning several.
"Sometimes, she's older, fatter, less well groomed, less fit, less everything the world says an attractive woman should be. That's why the term "hottie" sounds adolescent."
Well, if it's to find other qualities that – real or perceived, or not at all – the husband says/claims are absent in his wife, then why would he want to turn to someone with those "older, fatter," etc. qualities you speak of? Surely, it's not just to "test" his wife or see what he can get away with, at least as I see it. If he's not happy with his current wife for whatever reason, he should just chalk it up, admit that he is unhappy and wants a divorce ... and then accept whatever consequences come his way.
"Parents live for the sweet moments with their teens, however few & far between they are, as they ride out their teen's adolescence; grandparents are even more aware of that then parents."
And that's sweet. That's why – and this has also sometimes been an issue with me on various BTL's – I always, always want to see families get along, 100 percent of the time. Sad to say, it's not always true. Such as the grandmother the other day on Annie's who was sick and was unable to understand why she was not able to visit her grandchild ... it goes beyond the amount of time spent, but the fact that there was a strained relationship that was threatening to destroy whatever was there.
This much is for certain ... ill-will was surely not present with the LW of this column. Regardless of what the LW was thinking whenever she brought friends over and saw grandma there to greet them, this much is clear ... whatever ill feelings or annoyment there may have been were likely short-lived and forgotten about.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Bobaloo
Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:02 PM
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