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Smells Like Bean Spirit

Comment

My girlfriend of a year is 51 and lovely in most areas — except one: She often passes gas and recently started belching audibly. She is a psychotherapist, dresses nicely, and has great figure. However, she grew up in a male-dominated, military home. She thinks I'm "weird" and "overly sensitive" to be disturbed by these behaviors, but I, like most men, like the whole "feminine" thing. I now feel less attracted to her, and our sex life has diminished somewhat. I wonder whether I'm being tested in some way. — Bummed

"Audible" is an audiobook producer; it shouldn't describe your girlfriend's butt.

Okay, so she grew up in a military family — the lone sister trying to fit in with the "band of brothers." (Semper fffffffffft!) But that was then, and this is now. These days, if she spots some lady with 11 items in the "10 items or less" lane, I'm guessing she doesn't whip out the sat phone to order a drone strike on the woman's minivan. Likewise, you aren't unreasonable in asking her to respect the difference between free expression and too-free expression. (Your role in the relationship shouldn't be "Courage Under Fire.")

Some couples do view being gross in front of each other as an endurance test for love — a sort of "Survivor: El Bano" — as if they've got something so special that it transcends their seeing their beloved straining on the throne. And, sure, if you love someone and they get sick, you don't stop loving them because you're holding their hair back while they're puking their guts out. But the reality is, it's hard enough to keep the sexy alive over time when you really make an effort. As for your girlfriend's insistence on crop-dusting her way across the bedroom, way to clear a room, lady — of all sexual attraction.

Explain to your girlfriend that of course there'll be the occasional accidental toot in yoga class. (To air is human!) But love involves treating someone as if they matter. Even when you think their concerns are "weird." (Crazy that you don't find it the height of femininity when your girlfriend interrupts sexytime with "Come on, pull my finger!")

Tell her that you're hurt that your feelings don't seem to mean enough for her to curtail her behavior in the most minor way — the way that she surely does at cocktail parties and around her patients. (Please tell me that as some tearful guy tells her about his traumatic childhood, she isn't lifting a leg and letting one rip: "Wow, those nightshade vegetables really don't agree with me!")

If she keeps on keeping on, give some thought to whether she's loving enough for you to continue seeing. When you have a girlfriend who blows you away, it should probably be with her kindness, intelligence, and beauty — and not the chimichangas she had for lunch.

Meet Joe Blank

I'd really like the guy I'm dating to compliment me more.

I know he's super-attracted to me, but he's not very complimentary, and it makes me feel that he doesn't think I'm pretty. How do I get him to compliment me without the awkward "Don't you think I look hot?" — Insecure

Unfortunately, men tend to do poorly at hint-taking. So, no, you can't just stand next to the kitchen table in your cute new skirt after laying out Doritos in the shape of a question mark. But because male sexuality is visual, it's comforting to know that your boyfriend's looking across a party at you and thinking "I want you" and not "I want you to move over so I can see that hot woman behind you." And it turns out that complimenting you is actually good for him, too. Research on gratitude by psychologist Sara Algoe suggests that the stock-taking that goes into a person's expressing appreciation for their partner works as a sort of emotional Post-it note, reminding them of how good they have it. And the appreciation itself tends to leave both partners feeling more bonded and satisfied with the relationship.

Instead of fishing for a compliment in the moment — yicky and humiliating — take advantage of how men like to know they're making their woman happy and tell him (and remind him, if necessary) that you love hearing it when he thinks you look good. But you might also recognize that he's been complimenting you, just not in a chatty way. (As you noted, "I know he's super-attracted to me.") And sure, there are men out there who'd be far more naturally verbal about their feelings — men who haven't exactly walked a mile in your stilettos but have a pair that looks a lot like them in size 14 extra-extra-wide.

Got a problem? Write Amy Alkon, 171 Pier Ave., #280, Santa Monica, CA 90405, or email AdviceAmy@aol.com (www.advicegoddess.com). Her latest book is "Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck."

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It's Amy Alkon's Advice Goddess Radio! "Nerd your way to a better life," with the best brains in science solving your love, dating, sex, and relationship problems. Listen live every Sunday — http://www.blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon — 7-8 p.m. PT, 10-11 p.m. ET, or download the podcast at the link. The call-in number during the show is 347-326-9761. This week, Amy Alkon and Dr. Jennifer Verdolin on why heartbreak is adaptive and how science can help you heal.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon/2015/05/04/amy-alkon-dr-verdolin-how-heartbreak-is-adaptive-science-can-help-you-heal



Comments

25 Comments | Post Comment
LW1: You do realize that the average person passes gas 10-20 times/day, right? Even if you were previously unaware of it in other relationships, women are included in that statistic. Most of us pass enough milliliters to fill half of a 2-liter soda bottle, and only about 1 percent of it has an odor.

However, if she's RECENTLY started belching and if she's passing gas loudly more often, this might be diet-related. (Surprise! Not everything is about you!) As people hit 50 and get their first colonoscopy results, they become more aware of the need to include more fiber in their diet, and foods high in fiber (most veggies, all whole grains) tend to produce more... ummm... noticeable flatulence. Women looking to get/keep a "great" figure often choose high-fiber foods, too, to help them feel fuller longer. Avoiding those foods might reduce flatulence, but that has health consequences too -- you WANT the complex carbs to feed the bacteria living in the large intestine. It helps keep you healthy.

Soda, though, is also linked to belching (no surprise there). Cutting out soda might cut down on the belching.

Another possibility: lactose intolerance tends to become more pronounced as people age. Flatulence is among the symptoms. If she's experiencing other symptoms, she probably should discuss this with her doctor.

She's likely suggesting that you are weird and overly sensitive as a classic turn-around defense strategy, making it all about the complainer. It's possible she's feeling unable to control flatulence to the same degree that she used to (I think this comes with age, too), and this is how she overcomes her embarrassment. It's kind of like guys who laugh when the pass gas or make jokes -- the women they live with don't find it particularly attractive, either. But most of us know the guys aren't deliberately trying to be gross -- they're just dealing with a digestive system they can't control as well as we'd like them to.

If there are specific foods that she knows set her off, she can try some OTC products to help lessen bloating and gas, but those really shouldn't be taken routinely and frequently, or the effect will be the same as with a diet low in fiber.

And yeah, Amy's right about how people who value each other generally try to please each other. She should be wanting not to turn you off. It seems odd that she might be trying to test you this way, since society so frowns upon women passing gas. But I suppose it's possible. Any chance that you are excusing your own flatulence as something that's OK because you're a guy? Or she might be doing it to get back at you for what she feels is constant criticism. You might get the results you want (less noticeable passed gas from her) if you tone down your reaction to it.
Comment: #1
Posted by: hedgehog
Tue May 19, 2015 11:25 AM
Geez, hedgehog, does EVERYTHING have to be the product of rampant sexism? (since society so frowns upon women passing gas.) Uh, just so you know, polite society frowns on ANYone except babies passing gas in a way obvious enough to be noticed.

Even Miss Manners once pointed out that there is a category of noises which "socially do not exist." And since it doesn't exist, you don't need to acknowledge it. But no one should be deliberately trying to make it more obvious.

Comment: #2
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Tue May 19, 2015 12:57 PM
Sprout your beans for a day or so before cooking them.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Khlovia
Tue May 19, 2015 2:06 PM
Maggie Lawrence --no, not everything has to be the product of rampant sexism. But seriously, even LW admitted that "I, like most men, like the 'feminine' thing."

IOW, he's not upset because she's being RUDE. He's upset because she's not being "FEMININE". It's behavior he sees as belonging to the men's locker room, where the guys will belch the alphabet and make fart joke for laughs. It's also generally boys who love making rude noises with their armpit and buy whoopee cushions and say things like "who cut the cheese?"

Women don't do ANY of that because it's so taboo for women.

Comment: #4
Posted by: hedgehog
Tue May 19, 2015 3:32 PM
Hedgehog, well maybe it SHOULD be taboo - and not just for women. But men's locker rooms are not the same as public places with mixed company of all ages and both sexes. And what's wrong with the LW's complaint? Farting loudly on purpose with a date not only isn't "feminine" it isn't polite. A man who would do the same around a woman on a date is just as crude. And what's so attractive about that? Feminism has nothing to do with it.

Comment: #5
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Wed May 20, 2015 8:45 AM
P.S. "Women don't do ANY of that because it's so taboo for women. " No. Maybe women "don't do ANY of that" (although I'll bet some do) because women tend to be more socially clued-in.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Wed May 20, 2015 8:49 AM
Re LW#1--
In a perfect world (well, my perfect world, anyway) there would be occasions where someone passed gas, in spite of trying not to until they could excuse themselves and get to a private place; and when that happened, they would say 'excuse 'me' and conversation would go on as if it hadn't happened.

But in my perfect world there would NOT be occasions where someone deliberately passed gas as loudly as possible, and then he/she, or the other people present, started laughing and making crude jokes.

It's a natural occurrence, like having to pee. But what you do is, if possible, you excuse yourself and go pass gas someplace where no one else has to listen. If not possible, you don't make a big deal of it, and neither does anyone else.

Little kids, and crude grown-ups, find it hilarious; most grown-ups do not. An adult person will not go ballistic if it happens, they will ignore it and go on with the conversation they were having. An immature person will call attention to it and come up with remarks that are more suited to a 5-year-old.

(Of course, this is just in my fantasy world, and I don't expect to see it ever actually change to be like that. For some reason, some people find it to be the funniest thing in the world, and that seems to be what humor consists of for them -- a gross thing someone does, either accidentally or intentionally, and which everyone else calls attention to and laughs at.) Somebody tell me, please, WHY is that something funny?
Comment: #7
Posted by: jennylee
Wed May 20, 2015 9:21 AM
Sorry, Maggie Lawrence. Men aren't regarded as "unmasculine" if they pass gas in front of women. They are regarded as socially clueless.

Women NOT ONLY are "socially clueless" if they pass gas or make rude noises, etc-- they are labeled as "unfeminine." Because one of the characteristics of femininity is daintiness. Look at the reasoning LW says this woman provides: she grew up in a masculine household. And yes, women ARE expected to be more clued in socially -- that's another aspect of femininity.

It is more taboo for women, under ANY circumstances -- even if they are alone in the sorority house or the women's locker room. There was a Dear Abby letter within the last month from a woman who was mortified that she tooted while laughing very hard with a group of male co-workers, to the point where she couldn't look them in the eye for days! That's not the first such letter I've read, either -- but interestingly enough, those letters were to a one from women, not men. I just read a 1980s era collection of dating tips for girls, which advised no belching, "because it's not feminine" and "guys don't want to see you as one of the guys".

Sorry, women are held to a higher standard when it comes to that than men are.

jennylee -- I don't think many people (beyond adolescents) ATTEMPT to pass gas noticeably, particularly women. I would bet money that LW has commented or made a face, rather than politely ignore the noises that Miss Manners says do not exist and should not be acknowledged. Shaming someone tends to get their dander up, and then just might result in her deliberately provoking. Kind of like the "I'll give you something to cry about!" parents use when their kids are crying.

I cannot believe I've wasted this much time on intestinal gas comments!
Comment: #8
Posted by: hedgehog
Wed May 20, 2015 11:55 AM
Actually, Hedgehog, neither can I. But as for "Sorry, women are held to a higher standard when it comes to that than men are." So What? Maybe women "are held to a higher standard" because they're considered more capable of reaching it. My whole issue with your first comment was trying to drag feminism into it as if it were somehow "unfair" that women couldn't act as crude as some men do and be dismissed as cavalierly as some men are. Crude behavior is still crude no matter who's doing it. Let's leave feminism out of it.


Comment: #9
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Wed May 20, 2015 12:37 PM
LW1: She has habits that you find unattractive. Find someone else. Problem solved.
LW2: It's not his job to validate you - that's your job.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Diana
Wed May 20, 2015 2:53 PM
I appreciate hedgehog's explanation of why people have gas, and how to possibly tame it. I once had a student who was gassy after lunch. I told him to stop stuffing his mouth so full, and talking with his mouth open, because he was swallowing so much air. The air had to come out somehow, and his loud, disruptive belches and farts were the result. He took the advice, and, no more loud noises! If it had not worked, I would have gotten into hedge's points, but since he was young, I knew it might simply be swallowing air, and not an aging digestive system.
.
I also agree with her idea that men expect women to act feminine. I think Maggie took strong exception to it because Maggie wishes it were not so, and the idea should go away. That may be true, but it still is a thing. Men are not attracted to us if they think we are not feminine generally, and it is not a conscious decision on their part. And demanding that they change their opinion about that will not work. There is a huge range of what is feminine, and there is nothing wrong with admitting that there is a difference between men and women, and we label those differences as feminine or masculine traits. It isn't sexist to call it what it is.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Patty Bear
Thu May 21, 2015 6:08 AM
Patty Bear, oddly enough, I agree with your comments - all except the part where I "wish it weren't so" that men expect women to be feminine. Of course they do. And I like men of all kinds, but I'm only attracted to men who are "masculine" as I define masculinity.

That isn't my complaint. My objection came from this line: "she might be trying to test you this way, since society so frowns upon women passing gas." My point being, why SHOULDN'T society frown upon women passing gas? Society, if we're talking about the standard mores in a mixed group in public, frowns upon ANYONE passing gas loudly and deliberately. Women who do it are just as gross as men who do it - deliberately. Women have been, rightly or not, since time immemorial arbiters of acceptable or polite behavior. So to say that "society frowns upon women passing gas" it's as much women who disapprove as it is men.

Comment: #12
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Thu May 21, 2015 8:05 AM
LW1 -
Oh, so you "like the whole "feminine" thing", heh? And, according to your dictum, women don't burp of pass gas, right? Are they also not allowed the right to be angry or to have separate needs of their own?

Granted that everybody, inccluding men, should refrain from going BARRRRRUP with their mouth open, and try to get out of the room when they can feel the mother of all barrum-pooms coming, but it is not always possible and passing gas is not something anyone can control. They're called body functions, and an "I'm sorry" suffices to be absolved with most people.

Is this a recent occurence? In which case you should suggest to her that she consult medically, as she may be developing some digestion or food intolerance issues. Or are medical problems part of the things you don't find "feminine"?

Look. If your sexuality is so fragile that you can't get used to the fact that women are human, then get yourself an inflated doll and leave real women alone.

P.S.: Your girlfriend is 51? How old are YOU? And you've never noticed that women have body functions too? Good flamin' grief, man, is this the first time you're dating?

Comment: #13
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Thu May 21, 2015 9:15 AM
Re: Maggie Lawrence
"My point being, why SHOULDN'T society frown upon women passing gas? Society, if we're talking about the standard mores in a mixed group in public, frowns upon ANYONE passing gas loudly and deliberately. Women who do it are just as gross as men who do it - deliberately."
Well, society frowns a lot more on women than it does on men. And "deliberately"? Belching can be done on purpose especially when you drink a lot of soda, but farting? I can't do it, and I don't know anyone who can.

Comment: #14
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Thu May 21, 2015 9:18 AM
Lise, I don't see anything in LW's letter that suggests that he can't handle the fact that she's human. His complaint is exactly what mine would be if I were dating someone who farts and belches "audibly" - her lack of manners - which Hedgehog jumped on turning "lack of femininity" into a woman's issue, as if being as gross as some guys is our right. And it's not a woman's issue - it's a politeness issue.

Everybody passes gas - but there's a difference between holding it till you can get somewhere private, letting it out silently, (SBD?) or forcing it in a triumphant blast. It sounds like the last is what this woman is doing; in public, as a member of "society" I would frown on it as well.

Comment: #15
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Thu May 21, 2015 11:55 AM
Re: Maggie Lawrence
Fine, so his complaint is the same as yours would be, but not quite: would you say that he is being "unmascuiline" for belching and farting? Like hedgehog said, "he's not upset because she's being RUDE. He's upset because she's not being "FEMININE"."

P.S.: "Holdding it"? "Letting it out silently"? Man, if you can manage to do that every time, you have a LOT more control than I ever did. Thank God it doesn't happen to me often.

Comment: #16
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Thu May 21, 2015 5:30 PM
I'm with Maggie on this one: It's impolite to belch and fart in public.

Most women know that. So do most men.

I knew a woman once who insisted on doing both in public as a "feminist statement." This was thirty years ago. No one, male or female, wanted to be around her for very long.

Yes, there is a double standard, but defending the "right" of a woman to pass gas loudly and obnoxiously whenever she feels like it, reminds me of the old Weird Al Yankovich song, "Dare to Be Stupid." As Mr. Yankovich so eloquently puts it:

Talk with your mouth full
Bite the hand that feeds you
What can you do
Dare to be stupid

The LW's GF sounds like an adherent of these values. If she does it in the name of being "liberated," so much the worse.

Re: the LW saying he likes the feminine virtue of not filling the room with noxious gases as noisily as you can, I have to say, as a 62 year old woman - so do I. I'll count it as a masculine virtue too, 99 percent of the time.
Comment: #17
Posted by: sarah morrow
Thu May 21, 2015 5:48 PM
I'm with Maggie on this one: It's impolite to belch and fart in public.

Most women know that. So do most men.

I knew a woman once who insisted on doing both in public as a "feminist statement." This was thirty years ago. No one, male or female, wanted to be around her for very long.

Yes, there is a double standard, but defending the "right" of a woman to pass gas loudly and obnoxiously whenever she feels like it, reminds me of the old Weird Al Yankovich song, "Dare to Be Stupid." As Mr. Yankovich so eloquently puts it:

Talk with your mouth full
Bite the hand that feeds you
What can you do
Dare to be stupid

The LW's GF sounds like an adherent of these values. If she does it in the name of being "liberated," so much the worse.

Re: the LW saying he likes the feminine virtue of not filling the room with noxious gases as noisily as you can, I have to say, as a 62 year old woman - so do I. I'll count it as a masculine virtue too, 99 percent of the time.
Comment: #18
Posted by: sarah morrow
Thu May 21, 2015 5:49 PM
Thank you Sarah M. - you said it better than I did.

Lise, re: "he's not upset because she's being RUDE. He's upset because she's not being "FEMININE"." And I say again - SO WHAT? But he obviously IS upset that she's being rude - and what is wrong with characterizing passing loud gas (deliberately) as unfeminine? IT IS! AND it's rude. If a man did that with me on a date, I wouldn't call him "un-masculine" - I'd call him "history."
Comment: #19
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Thu May 21, 2015 8:32 PM
Re: sarah morrow
Oh, I certainly won't belch or fart in public if I can avoid it, as it IS impolite - AND noxious. And I certainly wouldn't react to sexist double standards by demanding the right to be noisy and stinky - that would be OBnoxious.

But I'm with hedgehog about him minding it only because he finds it "unfeminine". In other words, his male buddies can go BRRRRRAAAAP and baroom-poom as much as they want, and he'll find that normal because they're men? Sorry, but no.

@Maggie
So what? Because it's sexist and all double standards create an imbalance, that's why. Not only it indicates that it's not the trivial noise and stench that he minds but the fact that it comes from a woman, but if he's going to be double-standarded, what else does he allow men to do and not women?

Comment: #20
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri May 22, 2015 6:00 AM
And frankly, I find it odd that only hedgehog and I have picked on a possible medical problem. If she belches and farts loudly and stinkily 20 times a day, something is wrong witn her digestive tract, especially if this is recent development. But nobody gives a damn because her symptoms are rude and "unfeminine".

Comment: #21
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri May 22, 2015 6:07 AM
Feminism had some good points, but one of its weaknesses was putting blanket ideas into simple minds to the point where any difference noted between men and women - and there are plenty! - becomes "sexism." As in "Because it's sexist and all double standards create an imbalance, that's why"

It is NOT "sexist" for a man to "like the whole feminine thing" just as it isn't sexist for a woman to "like the whole masculine thing." It's human and VERY natural. And part of "the whole feminine thing" is a consciousness of behavior, often a sensitivity to public behavior that many men aren't as tuned into.

Women will frequently notice things that men don't. Is it "sexist" to point that out? If so, then good for sexism! I would have hoped that with the feminist movement a little more intelligent discrimination between what matters and what doesn't would have emerged - but alas. Now we're arguing over whether it's "sexist" to expect women to not fart loudly on purpose around other people - or that a man who objects to his girlfriend doing it is being "sexist" rather than disgusted.

Lise, you've apparently made up your mind that LW1 doesn't object to farting loudly - he only objects to HER doing it because it "isn't feminine." So what is he supposed to object to? If some female pig walks past him in public and farts loudly, he can shake his head and keep walking. But he's talking about the woman he cares about and spends days and nights with. Why shouldn't he object to her gross behavior?
Even further, she continues her behaviors in spite of knowing how it bothers him - not a sign of a considerate or loving partner. That is the key to the whole thing.

You and Hedgehog have really gone out on a limb to try to see sexism and some insidious double standard where it doesn't exist. NO ONE gets approval for farting loudly and deliberately around others, unless of course they live in an Animal House and those are the rules of the game. What men do in a locker room is beside the point - presumably he doesn't have a romantic relationship with any of them.



Comment: #22
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Fri May 22, 2015 7:16 AM
LW1--Let me guess, you're of the opinion that women don't sweat, they "glow". I'm sorry to break it to (not wind mind you) but human bodies do all sorts of things that aren't pretty, including passing gas from one end or the other. While you seem to prefer a dainty little flower who wears full hair and makeup to bed at night so that you awaken to a vision of beauty, your girlfriend begs to differ. It's one thing if your girlfriend were farting and belching loudly during dinner parties and quite another to do so in the privacy of her own home in the company of someone she loves and trusts enough to be herself. If perfectly normal bodily functions are affecting your sex life then I'm afraid you're headed for trouble in the long-term. I can't imagine what would happen should you happen upon your lady love using the latrine. My advice is to get yourself into counseling to figure out why you have such a distorted view of what it means to be feminine.

LW2--Oh for god's sake! Learn to validate yourself nit wit!
Comment: #23
Posted by: Chris
Fri May 22, 2015 12:32 PM
Chris, why can't we just insult the LWs based on what they actually said instead of what BTL likes to extrapolate? As in "you seem to prefer a dainty little flower who wears full hair and makeup to bed at night so that you awaken to a vision of beauty". No, he "doesn't seem to prefer" anything except a woman who is a little more conscious about not making gross noises and smells. If she does it around him freely, at home, he has said it bothers him. She still does it. If the reverse were true, we'd be saying "get rid of the clod!"

I had a husband who thought farting was the funniest thing in the world and would do it - at home - as loudly as he could. Guess how long that marriage lasted. Not directly because of that, but because of his ongoing crudity, immaturity, and lack of any perspective on how his behavior appeared. It played out in many other ways.

Bottom line, if her deliberate audible farting and belching bothers him, is affecting their sex life, and she won't see it and doesn't want to make any changes, the relationship looks doomed to me.

Comment: #24
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Fri May 22, 2015 12:54 PM
That scraping sound you're hearing is the bottom of the barrel. Obviously, we've run out of things to discuss.
Comment: #25
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Sat May 23, 2015 1:18 PM
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