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Mom Purloins the Diary Dear Margo: I found out last week that our 17-year-old high school junior is having sex with her boyfriend! First of all, I found out the wrong way: I snooped in her room and read her diary. Second, she would never admit to it, so my husband …Read more. The Bad Seed Dear Margo: I never thought I would write to an advice columnist, but here goes. I've been dating someone for about a year now, and we talk of marriage occasionally. He's ready for commitment and very gung-ho about us getting married, which is …Read more. Oh, and, Uh, By the Way... Dear Margo: I am soon to be 27 years old, and my only serious relationship ended a few years ago. In hopes of avoiding the standard meat market of dating, I'm considering registration with eHarmony.com. I've also had my share of casual relationships.…Read more. It Is in the Bible, but Not in the Stars Dear Margo: I have been dating a wonderful man for four months now. He is very kind and sweet in every way. We are much in love and happy together. There is only one problem: We are different religions. I am a Christian; he is agnostic. I have …Read more.
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This Fundamental Difference Bodes Ill for a Happy Marriage

Comment

Dear Margo: After two years of research and soul-searching, I have rejected my faith and become an atheist/humanist. I grew up in a Christian household, and all of my family and most of my friends are Christians. I was once devout, and I married a Christian man. I have been honest with "Kurt" since I started doubting my faith — telling him of my doubts and updating him on my thoughts and findings. He was patient and supportive. However, that all changed several days ago when I told him I realized I was an atheist.

Kurt completely shut down and ignored me for the rest of the evening and the following day. When he finally did talk to me, he told me he felt like a failure as a husband, that I'd betrayed him, that he's no longer proud to be married to me, and that my atheism is a "dirty secret" he has to keep. He proceeded to list all of the things that are wrong with our marriage and implied the fault was all mine. When I tried to interject my opinions, he told me to shut up because he didn't care what I had to say on the matter. Then he went to bed. We have not spoken of it since.

Needless to say, I am heartbroken. Since this incident, we have coexisted politely, like roommates. We obviously need counseling, but in the past when I brought it up, he said he wouldn't go since I'm the one with the problem. Do you have any advice about how to proceed? I don't know whether our marriage can survive this. — The Apostate

Dear Ap: I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe the marriage is a goner. Your husband is clearly very religious. He is embarrassed that you have arrived at this decision and is unwilling to hang on to the marriage through counseling.

I think your life will be happier when you two part, as this new barrier between you is such a basic issue. I salute you for taking two years to arrive at a decision, and I do not believe you have "a problem." Good luck. — Margo, thoughtfully

Any Rules About Showers (of the Baby Kind)?

Dear Margo: My boss and his wife are expecting their first child. My co-workers and I are thrilled for him because many of us know he's been waiting for this moment for a very long time. He and his wife opted not to have a baby shower, partly due to the fact that she's a doctor at a busy urban hospital and now is on mandatory bed rest. My co-workers and I want to honor this occasion, and we all decided to contribute money to buy a gift and throw him a small office shower.

My task is to create the greeting card, as I do this as a part-time gig, but I am at a loss. Because the shower will only be for him at our office, I was going to have the card say something along the lines of "For the soon-to-be daddy." But not including her doesn't feel right. (Personally, I intend to send them a gift addressed to both, as I know them both socially.) Any advice? — One of the Girls

Dear One: Since the boss is held in high regard, I think it's fine to have him be the single honoree at the shower. He knows his wife was involved, so don't give it a thought that there's no mention of the mom-to-be on the card. The interest of everyone in the office sounds quite sweet. I know the shower will be a great success. — Margo, festively

Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via the online form at www.creators.com/dearmargo. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.

COPYRIGHT 2012 MARGO HOWARD

DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM



Comments

34 Comments | Post Comment
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Comment: #1
Posted by: Jenna
Thu May 10, 2012 11:03 PM
LW1 - it sounds like your husband was frightened by your decision to declare yourself an athiest, and was trying to shut you out when you tried to talk about it, as a way of keeping his own fears (and perhaps doubts) at arm's length. (People often use religion to cope with their deepest fears, for example about mortality, so knowing that you are no longer religious may have caused a personal crisis for him.) Margo may be right that your marriage is unlikely to survive. But I would advise having one more talk with him (if you can). Ask him gently if he can talk about his feelings about the matter, and why it's so upsetting to him. Stress that he doesn't have to agree with your feelings about religion, and you don't expect him to, or feel any need for him to change in that respect, but that you also need for him to respect your feelings even if he doesn't agree with them. You may at least be able to part friends, if you don't see a way to resolve things.
Comment: #2
Posted by: sarah morrow
Thu May 10, 2012 11:03 PM
One thought for LW1: my mom is an active atheist; I am not particularly religious but am not completely atheist. Regardless, when she speaks of her atheism, it's clear she looks down on religious people and thinks they're stupid, and she clearly doesn't respect them. Very religious people tend to look down on atheists in the same way and do not respect them. This fundamental lack of mutual respect is why people often can't overcome such differences and that seems to be the case here. Religion is a core belief for a lot of people and there is often little room for disagreement; different denominationas perhaps as you are both still religious but religious and atheist not so much. It would probably be best if you two went your separate ways but try to be careful, when speaking to your husband, that you don't project that you look down on religious people; my mom doesn't mean to do that but she does and it's obvious.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Kim
Fri May 11, 2012 5:55 AM
To LW1:
1. Based on your husband's reaction, I think your marriage is over. I think you'll both be happier in the long run if you move on.
2. I agree with Kim (Comment #3). I know quite a few athiests, and they all look down on religious people as if they are a bunch of morons. Being somewhat spiritual myself, I find this very insulting. However, most religious people I know do not look down on athiests. The ones I know don't understand athiesm, but they don't look down on it, either. Part of your husband's reaction could probably be that he may think that you now look down on him and his beliefs.

Just my humble opinion....

Comment: #4
Posted by: Pam
Fri May 11, 2012 6:30 AM
L1: What did you reaction did you expect from him? Belief and Faith are very subjective to people. Your husband must obviously be comfortable in his Christian belief and resents two years worth of research and updates on your findings. Do you expect him to what??? To see your light and lose his faith?
My husband hates it when I update him on my research regarding what the negative impact the Conservative Right has had on this country and social norms. I used to be one of those staunch Conservatives and like you my views have changed…but I stopped telling him about it…he still loves me and I love him…we have an unspoken agreement to “agree to disagree”. Also with my view changes I also don't believe in the Christian Doctrine as I used to, he's aware of it as is my family, but I don't force them to listen to me and I still participate with them as a family because I love them and they love me. I think you need to have a quiet heart to heart with yourself and seriously reflect what you want in the future. If you want to let this destroy you marriage than so be it but don't make him the sole problem.
Comment: #5
Posted by: commentator
Fri May 11, 2012 6:37 AM
L1: What did you reaction did you expect from him? Belief and Faith are very subjective to people. Your husband must obviously be comfortable in his Christian belief and resents two years worth of research and updates on your findings. Do you expect him to what??? To see your light and lose his faith?
My husband hates it when I update him on my research regarding what the negative impact the Conservative Right has had on this country and social norms. I used to be one of those staunch Conservatives and like you my views have changed…but I stopped telling him about it…he still loves me and I love him…we have an unspoken agreement to “agree to disagree”. Also with my view changes I also don't believe in the Christian Doctrine as I used to, he's aware of it as is my family, but I don't force them to listen to me and I still participate with them as a family because I love them and they love me. I think you need to have a quiet heart to heart with yourself and seriously reflect what you want in the future. If you want to let this destroy you marriage than so be it but don't make him the sole problem.
Comment: #6
Posted by: commentator
Fri May 11, 2012 6:38 AM
LW1: It's true that a lot of the more vocal atheists can be quite dismissive of religion, but I've encountered tons of religious people who treated atheists horribly. The condescending way religious people talk about atheists can be amazingly insensitive and insulting, too, so this definitely goes both ways.

But it doesn't sound like you are disrespectful of your husband, just wishing he could be respectful of you. Honestly, these kinds of differences can be insurmountable if people feel that those around them have to make the same choices, have the same beliefs.

You might try to offer a trial separation first, to see if you husband might realize he wants to put some effort into saving your marriage. It might push him into trying counseling. But you really should prepare yourself that your relationship was not as solid as you thought it was.

Comment: #7
Posted by: Mike H
Fri May 11, 2012 6:43 AM
Does anyone know why comments are no longer allowed in the Annies advice column? Did something go down in the comments section that I missed?
Comment: #8
Posted by: Chris McCoy
Fri May 11, 2012 6:46 AM
She probably told her husband about her doubts because if she hadn't, he would have accused her of being deceptive. Plus, it's a big thing and married people are supposed to discuss big things.

I disagree that with the above statement that all or most Atheists look down on religious people. Their are some loud ones that are disrespectful to other people, but they are small compared to the number of Atheists out there. The problem (and this is similar to vegetarians vs omnivores) is that with strong beliefs someone is going to be wrong. So, when you fall down on one side, in a way you are telling the other that they are wrong. And people don't like to hear that. Of course, both sides can be wrong, too.
Comment: #9
Posted by: Renee J
Fri May 11, 2012 7:06 AM
LW1:No one is mentioning what is, to me, an obvious dilemma. As a Christian, your husband feels like a failure because he is supposed to be the "head of household" and be an example and guide to his wife. He is also not supposed to marry outside his faith. In one fell swoop, you have not only made him a "failure" where you are concerned, as he mentioned, by your abandoning your faith, but also a fool because now he is "unequally yolked". Now, rather than share a deep spiritual intimacy in expected to have with the Christian woman he chose, he may feel limited to what to him is a superficial relationship. He's scared of how this affect him and no doubt, being Christian, divorce is not likely his first option. He is in crisis where you have found peace and now HE has to do some soul searching. Perhaps, be as supportive of him during this time as he was of you during your two year soul-search and show that you are still the same loving wife. You just turned his world upside down even though it may not seem that big a deal to you and he's going to need your patience while he sorts this out. I don't think he ever actually thought you would abandon your faith. He probably though this was just a thing you were going through and he was going to be the understanding spouse no matter where it ends up.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Lady M.
Fri May 11, 2012 7:37 AM
Just my observation - every atheist I have ever known (and known because they make a point of letting other people know it) appear to be reacting, or rebelling, against a strong religious upbringing. I think the Catholic church, for one, has created more atheists than it will ever know. When a few I have known complain about the illogic of this or that religion, or something in the bible as if to prove that it must all be wrong, I try to tell them "It's not God's fault that people are so dogmatic. God didn't invent religion or write the bible - so don't blame HIm." That said, everyone is entitled to their beliefs and should at least try to be somewhat open minded about others'. But it does appear to me that extreme atheists are just the flip side of the religious fundamentalist - they both want everyone to know what they believe and that they're the only ones who are right.
I also think that LW1 (who also grew up in a Christian household) can kiss it good-bye.
P.S. Yes, Chris, something did happen. Creators finally paid attention to the comments section when their in-box was inundated with "report this posts" and it was easier to shut it down than to moderate it.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Fri May 11, 2012 7:40 AM
@chris McCoy, a series of unrelenting personal attacks that violated the comments policy caused the shutdown at Annie's.

The moderators got sick of having to manually delete the offending posts, and the abusers refused to stop their personal vendetta, so this is the end result.

Hopefully the boards will come back some day with better controls to keep commenters on-topic.
Comment: #12
Posted by: Mike H
Fri May 11, 2012 7:42 AM
@Chris- I got very tired of the same people constantly commenting about things that had nothing to do with the topics in the column at Annie's mailbox. I suspect I'm not alone.
Comment: #13
Posted by: Jennifer
Fri May 11, 2012 8:36 AM
@ Lady M. - you stated very well exactly what I was thinking to write. As you said, the Bible speaks strongly of the necessity of being equally yoked. It's not a small deal. Additionally, it's highly likely that one of the husband's must-have's in a spouse was a shared faith; now that is gone, and that really isn't a small deal.
My family is non-denominational, but my sis married a Catholic. Nearly 20 years later and just two things she's discovered about not having a shared faith is that there are certain topics pertaining to religion that they can't discuss, and that she has a strong desire to attend church as as family, but the Catholic church doesn't fulfill her. She's making the best of it, but it does throw a few bumps in the road to be navigated. This is why being equally yoked actually is an important consideration.
Lady M, you also made a fantastic suggestion that wife give her husband the same time consideration in letting him work out *his* issues with her decision.
Comment: #14
Posted by: kristen
Fri May 11, 2012 9:03 AM
Oh, thanks for the info Mike and Jen. Yeah, that Miss Pasko thing was getting ridiculous.
Comment: #15
Posted by: Chris McCoy
Fri May 11, 2012 9:10 AM
@Kim: you echoed my thoughts succintly and with clarity.

Without the drama of the LW, I went through the same with my partner;
me being spiritually inclined (note I did not say religious) and he scientific and logic based. I just knew it was a dealbreaker.

I have so appreciated seeing a sense of normalcy in the comments department. Let's all move forward..
Comment: #16
Posted by: aline
Fri May 11, 2012 10:26 AM
LW2
As you have such a good environment in your office, it is very kind to celebrate the boss's impending change of life. His wife can probably expect a similar event from her co-workers. If it were my husband, I'd completely understand his getting a Daddy-to-be card from colleagues. Go for it.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Miss Pasko
Fri May 11, 2012 11:08 AM
Re: Chris McCoy

For several weeks there were some quite nasty instances with bullying on the Annie's Mailbox forum related to Miss Pasko's "Public Service Announcements" There were some immature derogatory comments and finally the ladies that regularly posted there started to report all instances to the webmaster. Personally, I don't miss some of the regular posters who would discuss sexual acts and used curse words on a regular basis on what is supposed to be a family friendly website. But basically, the trolls were quite abusive in their mocking of Miss Pasko.

Comment: #18
Posted by: Paula
Fri May 11, 2012 2:11 PM
@kristen-I'm so glad you agree. That was my first comment although I've been reading this site for a while. I believe the Bible calls for us to be equally yolked because marriage is hard enough without throwing a wrench into it! Being non-practicing of any religion now is really no indication either. I don't think people realize how feelings can change on a subject, especially when you have kids. And raising kids in a multi-religious home is no easy task, especially because most religions are exclusive. I was raised Catholic-of sorts, more of a "Christmas and Easter" Catholic. I went to a Catholic elementary and middle school but a non-denominational Christian high school where I converted to a more "evengelical" Christianity and it is in that belief system that I raise my own kids. My sister did the same and now finds herself married to a die hard Catholic as well. He's more of a follow the routine, not really a deep seeded faith situation and she also finds the ritual empty. But she knows her husband would never leave the comfort of what he knows. It took her years to get him to move out of the neighborhood he was raised in! She is having a hard time with the in-laws giving her daughter statues of the Virgin Mary and asking her to kiss the statue or image of Jesus. She is not comfortable with it but she married into it and is now conflicted. She wasn't all that concerned with her faith until she had her daughter so the idea of marrying a Catholic did not bother her as much but she never imagined she would want her child to go to Sunday School or that she would miss the Christian church service. Patience is key in ANY marriage but more in one where you have to make frequent concessions, I think.
Comment: #19
Posted by: Lady M.
Fri May 11, 2012 2:35 PM
Regarding the comments on the Annies: You can also read their column at arcamax com. Comments are allowed there …… at least for now.
Comment: #20
Posted by: Bailey
Fri May 11, 2012 2:37 PM
LW, you are basically giving him a few days to process something that took you years. That's pretty self-centered of you. "Updating" him doesn't mean he was on-board with your changing. I doubt he ever expected you to become an atheist-no matter what updates you gave him. Do you have kids? I'm assuming not since it wasn't mentioned. But if you plan to, how are you going to raise them with one parent believing in God and the other thinking it's a fairytale? The kids are either going to grow up thinking mommy's in trouble spiritually or that daddy's stupid. There's not a lot of middle ground.

If he had told you he'd decided he was no longer monogamous 2 days ago, would you be even-keeled now? Even if he had made comments about it before? I doubt you would be. You have changed a fundamental part of yourself, to the point that he would be valid in thinking you were no longer the person he married. You don't get to tell him how big a deal faith is to him. And you certainly don't get to give him a deadline to decide how he does feel.
Comment: #21
Posted by: farrar sanchez
Fri May 11, 2012 3:26 PM
LW1--"He proceeded to list all of the things that are wrong with our marriage..." I hate to break the news to you but your announcement of becoming an athiest is not the reason your husband "shut down" or proceeded to blame you for whatever ails your marriage. Your change of heart as it were is merely the excuse he's been looking for to initiate the end of days of your marriage. Margo is correct in that when two people often marry, they sometimes drift apart and become one (or two) totally different people than the ones who initially fell in love and married. This appears to be the case with your marriage. Instead of trying to mix oil and water, I suggest the two of you begin an amiable process of separation and see where that road leaves. It's unfortunate for his husband because his faith frowns upon divorce. Oh well, that's his problem now, not yours.

LW2--Wow, that's an easy one. You simply make the card read: ""For the soon-to-be daddy and his lovely wife." No need to make a big to-do about a non-issue. Any more impossible questions?
Comment: #22
Posted by: Chris
Fri May 11, 2012 4:17 PM
LW1: I'm going to take a different approach to this than most of you.

The Bible addresses the issue of marrying outside one's fath directly in several places, and it is strongly discouraged. The reasons for this are many, but the main one is that the faith is a major bond between the husband and wife. The Bible then becomes the Rule Book for the family. In many situations, the Book is consulted for inspiration and guidance. The life of the family is based around the Book and in faith in Jesus.

When one partner decides that the Rule Book is no longer the standard, it shakes the dynamic of the family to the core for those who are still living in the faith. The still believing are hurt and confused. All the sudden the Rules have changed for the whole family, and their Compass is lost. The believers wonder WHY this has happened. They wonder if THEY did something to turn the spouse away from the faith. They are at a loss as to how to communicate.

In short, they feel they were given the whole bait and switch: one partner represented themselves as something they are not (at least not anymore).

That said, there are lots of reasons why the LW decided to change her beliefs, none of which are important at this point. My advice to the LW would be to have her husband talk to his spiritual advisor for guidance. MOST (but not all) advisors will discourage divorce (which is seen as worse than being married to a non believer). In my church, we've had a few couples where one person is in the faith, and the other is not. It can work athough it can be uncomfortable for all concerned. The husband, in my opinion, is thinking that their lives will change drastically because of the LW's decision. No longer will she going to church and participating (as she should NOT) as if she believes. If the Church is a big part of their social life, it can really be a hit on the family and on the husband. When he goes to functions alone, he will be asked about the LW. And yes, it's embarrassing. It's not that the church treats atheists BADLY (at least no church I've ever seen), it's just that they don't share the same interests. And when you have been participating in the past, it's a shock to all concerned.

The LW writes "I have been honest with "Kurt" since I started doubting my faith — telling him of my doubts and updating him on my thoughts and findings. He was patient and supportive. "He was patient with her for TWO YEARS. Yet many of you on this board, and Margo herself, are ready to have the Lw file for divorce tomorrow because he is having issues for a few DAYS. Wow. the LW needs to chill out, encourage her husband to talk to his spiritual advisor and give her marriage some effort. And some forgiveness and understanding. She just pulled the rug out from under her husband and HE'S the bad guy? Not IMHO.



Comment: #23
Posted by: nanchan
Fri May 11, 2012 5:51 PM
(Sorry all, didn't read through all the posts before my comments, and I see some of you agree with me as well)

Re: comment section. I WISH the Web Ubbermensch at Creators would post a message where you would normally log in saying "The comment section for Dear Anny is temporarily shut down due to _________." You should not need to log in to see that message.

As for Arcamax, the whole clusterdealybob has already started over there. Some people need the drama in their lives, I am trying to stay out of it. But it would be nice to have a few days where the feud is tabled so we can concentrate on the LWs. (sigh)

Happy weekend, All!!!
Comment: #24
Posted by: nanchan
Fri May 11, 2012 6:05 PM
LW1 -
For someone who is so very religious, your husband seems to not be very christianly tolerant and loving.

It would appear that he has a vindictive, vicious streak, that he is quite bigoted, and that you are therefore now the enemy.

No, your marriage cannot survive this. Obviously, you were never a full person to the man you married, but a construct of what he expected you to be. Sorry.

P.S.: Sarah Morrow may be on to something.

@Chris McCoy
You can always read the comments that are still up there for everyone to see for the last few weeks before the shutdown, and you can form your own opinion as to what happened.

Comment: #25
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri May 11, 2012 7:52 PM
LW1 - I'm concerned that everyone pins down the religious factor but ignores the fact that he outright told her to shut up and that her opinions didn't matter. No matter the situation that's not something anyone who has respect for someone should EVER say, let alone a spouse who once stated that s/he loved you. It smacks of an individual who could very well have a personality leaning towards abusive. It sounds like his love was much more fickle than hers. If he loves her than he'd truly love her for who she is. Obviously he doesn't. Love isn't conditional (and this is stated as much in many wedding vows). I hope she moves on and finds a man who loves her for who she really is and who she will be.
Comment: #26
Posted by: Hierophantria
Fri May 11, 2012 11:14 PM
I guess you missed, " He was patient and supportive".....for two years. WTF was he suppose to do? Say "Thank you for crapping all over my faith, beliefs and me."?????? That poor man just had his world turned upside. I would forgive him for (finally) expressing his upset. I would hope that the letter writter will be patient and supportive with him in return. To throw in this mans' face that he is not being very Christian or loving is BS. And to call him a bigot is crazy (how is he bigoted?) She hurt and insulted his man to his core and he's not allowed to react? Give me a break!
Comment: #27
Posted by: Claudia
Sat May 12, 2012 12:24 AM
She has unilaterally made a huge change in the dynamic of the marriage. The is akin to someone coming out and expecting nothing to change. Its time to leave and let you husband find a new partner who is on the same religious page.Hopefully there are no children involved. She is unlikely to go back to pretending to behave as a Christian. This is a core belief and if she suddenly changed he is entitled to a get out of jail free card.
Comment: #28
Posted by: retired
Sat May 12, 2012 8:05 AM
LW1: There are guidelines in one of St Paul's letters for this situation: basically, if the unbeliever wants to leave, let him/her go; if they're willing to stay, let them stay--and try to behave in a way that will soften their heart.
One of M.Scott Peck's books deals with stages of spiritual growth, and this looks like a Stage 2 husband and Stage 3 wife. If they can get through it to Stage 4, it will be better than ever.

Re: the Annies' BTL situation: You'd think that the webmaster at Creaters' could simply cancel the passwords for the most determined OT posters. Unfortunately, there were a few people who could not let go of their unproductive attitudes (not just about Miss Pasco, which was way overblown). I miss the discussion, too.
Comment: #29
Posted by: partsmom
Sat May 12, 2012 10:47 AM
LW1: Regardless of whether he was (past tense) patient, he lashed out in an unacceptable manner once she told him what *her* personal beliefs have become -- there's really no excuse for turning to verbal & emotional abuse like that unless she had verbally/physically attacked first (which she didn't).
I don't think that him being patient with her confiding her most intimate beliefs in him while continuing to be a loving wife is even remotely equivalent to living in a loveless marriage with someone that feels her beliefs are a "problem" (as if she's an addict!) and refuses to get marriage counseling to heal the rift. One is listening to uncomfortable confessions, the other is putting up with emotional abuse that (as many people can say from experience) can cause severe depression. *That* is why divorce was recommended -- not because he got upset and withdrew, but because he's being emotionally abusive and doesn't show any sign of wanting to reconcile.
To answer comments on atheists... I'm on the atheist side of agnostic; I was raised by lapsed cafeteria Catholics that sent me to a wonderful Presbyterian preschool & kindergarten that emphasized love from God & for our fellow humans. I lost faith because I had experienced & seen so many horrible things during my frequent hospitalizations as a kid that I had to conclude that either there's no deity, or there's one that I wouldn't want to worship as it would have to be allowing/causing all of that suffering. I don't look down on people for being religious, though I'll find specific attitudes or behaviors offensive or disturbing. I haven't really gotten any nastiness from religious people beyond the stereotypical random Internet troll, either.
Regarding LW1, unless she's changing how she interacts with him, refusing to go to services they used to attend all the time, etc. any shifts in the marriage paradigm are from his reactions rather than her beliefs. She has thought her beliefs over very carefully, wishes to get counseling to help their marriage thrive; it is now up to him to calmly do some soul-searching to find what he is willing and able to do for their marriage. If he lacks the "Christian" traits needed (love, tolerance/forgiveness, charity, etc.) to save the marriage, the decent thing to do is end it -- it wouldn't be right to expect her to live in the spirit-crushing state of a loveless relationship because of *his* religion.
Comment: #30
Posted by: Xyzzy
Sat May 12, 2012 7:14 PM
LW1: When my parents got married, they were both practicing Methodists, and in fact, it was one of the conditions of my mom marrying my dad that he go to church with her on Sundays. However, at around the time of my baptism (at this point, my parents were going to a Presbyterian church), my dad stopped going and became an atheist.

Fortunately, religion ended up not being a dealbreaker for them, and they're still happily married for 44 years. Yeah, my dad may get the occasional jab in on my mom about her work at the church, but for the most part, they leave well enough alone. My dad has his life, my mom has hers, and they have their lives together; they are able to have some aspects of their independent lives be mutually exclusive from the one they share together, which is how they are able to make it work.

It doesn't sound like your husband is as willing to compromise on this subject. It sounds like maybe a separation may be in order for the two of you to figure out if the marriage is truly worth saving.
Comment: #31
Posted by: Janie
Mon May 14, 2012 6:49 AM
Re: Jennifer, comment #13

Based on this comment and a previous one on Annies where you noted that the IP addresses for several usernames were all the same, I assume that you are the site administrator. If this is the case, why didn't you simply block that IP address or send an email message to the troll as a warning? That makes a heck of a lot more sense than shutting down the entire site because a few people made you feel tired of doing your job.
Comment: #32
Posted by: sharnee
Mon May 14, 2012 7:47 AM
LW1: You have to understand that most of the religious feel attacked by non-believers because they're not true believers themselves - they're fakers and atheists are projections of their own fears and doubts. A true believer doesn't feel threatened by atheists or people of other religion because they have the strength of their own convictions. A faker always gives themselves away with their anger and hate. Your husband is a faker. You were a faker too until you had your awakening and realized you weren't a believer - you were just a coward who wanted to be part of a herd - any herd. Now that you have learned something important about yourself you should continue your journey of enlightenment. And yes, that journey does involve leaving the dullard behind.

LW2: This is a shower for your boss - not his wife - and I think it's a brilliant idea and the card should be about him. Fathers are never celebrated during the pregnancy and this will be a nice experience for him so don't rob him of it due to your conditioned thinking.
Comment: #33
Posted by: Diana
Sat May 19, 2012 3:46 PM
Re: Diana
You're quite right. Good insight and post - when you're right, you're right...

Comment: #34
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat May 19, 2012 4:21 PM
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Margo Howard
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