Time to Call the Tea Party's Bluff

I purchased new tires, last weekend for about $450.00. I saved $48,000.oo by not purchasing a new pick-up truck to get new tires. I don't have the $47, 550 that I "saved", but I'm going to spend it, anyway. That is the leftist math underlying Obamacare and all other political "savings.

MS HARROP SURELY YOU DON'T REALLY THINK THAT OBOMACARE IS GOING TO TURN OUT WELL. I DON'T. MY EXAMPLES- SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDACARE, MEDICADE, FREDDY, FANNY, OIL LEAK, STIMULUS, EVERY TIME THEY FOOL AROUND WITH PRIVATE BUSINESSES; THE LIST GOES ON. THE ONLY THING THE FEDERAL GOVERMENT GETS RIGHT IS THE MILITARY WHEN THEY ALLOW THE WAR FIGHTERS TO DO THEIR JOBS.

I read your column with interest. It is amazing that you are so clueless to what is really happening. Main steam America doesn't want the government to control its health care, banks, car industry, etc. We all know what a good job the feds do. I am a baby boomer who has worked for over 40 years and I don't want to share my wealth with people I don't know and who are waiting for some sort of "entitlement." Look beyond your liberalism and begin thinking about what will be good for our children and grandchildren. Socialism is not the answer!
PS - Everything is not George Bush's fault!

Froma, (From oblivion to utter nonsense!?) Here is the best example of you complete inanity and Democrat math: You stated the following in your article, "It happens that Medicare payroll taxes provide 40 percent of the program's funding and premiums another 12 percent. The remaining 39 percent comes from general revenues..."
Well, that totals up to 91%, so your fuzzy math shows your lack of discernable thinking.

No one could ever accuse you of doing an honest evaluation of the Tea Party movement. I would bet that you agree with Pelosi that it's an 'Astroturf" group. You accuse the movement of being a "...thicket of self-contradiction, self-delusion and self-serving positions." You insult and denigrate those with whom you disagree. Yet, it's NOT self-serving to support 'controls on Rush Limbaugh and Fox News!?

I reviewed your article from February 26, 2009. Either you are so completely stupid as to believe that tax cuts equals less revenue, (Hence you call John F. Kennedy a liar) or you are despicably dishonest and you DO hope that our finanicial system does indeed collapse (like Greece's) so that the Marxist-in-Chief can institute a complete "comand and control" economic system that will create the utopian system that you so desperately crave!

You exemplify why so many Marxists are NOT economists, ignorant of basic human nature and market principles, yet full of romantic notions of egalitarian societies where no one works that much but we all blissfully live in peace and harmony like those at Woodstock so many wonderful summers ago! You can certainly write reasonably well. It's just the logical and intelligent thinking that causes you so much difficulty!

Ms Froma Harrop,
I read your op ed in the Telegraph (Alton, IL) today and decided to email you how WONDERFUL I think your well organized and thought provoking article was. THEN, I see you are a (dare I say it) Liberal op ed. I have always considered myself a conservative Republican but, after reading your article and agreeing with it 100%, perhaps I really am a closet Liberal. At age 69 this will take some getting used to. I always thought my party had just gone NUTS the last 15 years or so and would eventually come back to their financially conservative views. Who'd thunk it!? Well, congratulations anyway regardless of your label and keep writing the clear-headed prose. Sincerely, Lloyd Kirchner

Perhaps if you bothered to study history and understand the basic premise on which Social Security and Medicare were established you would not write opinion colunms that so blatantly exhibit your ignorance.
When Social Security was first established in the 1930's it was essentially a Tontine. All eligible employees put in a set percentage of their wages (at that time 1%) and those who survived to the age of 65 would collect a monthly benefit. Those who lived the longest collected the most. Since average longevity then was 67 years and there were 16 workers to every 1 retiree the system worked quite well. In 1966, under Pres. Lyndon Johnson, Medicare coverage was added and split off from Social Security. Today 6.2% of a worker's wages go to Social Security and 1.45% go to Medicare and, don't forget, the employers match these amounts for a grand total of 15.30% (something you didn't mention in your editorial.
The amount being paid by each worker was never intended to equal the amount received by each worker, either for Social Security or Medicare. In fact, it was very well understood that many would indeed die before they ever received any benefits thereby ensuring that money would be available for those who did survive. It was also well understood that each current generation was supporting the previous one. The problem now is that there are only 3.3 workers for every retiree and the average life expectancy has risen dramatically because of the advances in medical technology that are often very expensive thereby increasing heath care costs.
Additionally, the raiding of the Social Security trust fund (also began under Lyndon B. Johnson) has left nothing but IOUs as far as the eye can see. Maybe we should be suing the trustees (Congress) who egregiously abdicated their fiduciary duties and in effect stole from us, the beneficiaries.
No Froma, we seniors are not putting our own interests above all others. We simply expect the government to abide by its contract with us. For all of our working lives we paid into this system (key word here is paid) and were told if we did we could expect certain benefits. Realize also, we were not allowed to opt out, and the government who determined the payments and the payouts should not be allowed to unilaterally take any money from these programs to help create a different, additional entitlement program that will in the long run create the need for more and greater tax increases to pay for it.
In case you haven't noticed, our country is drowning in debt due to the fact that our elected government officials apparently did not and do not have good economic or common sense. This is also true of liberals in general.
Simply put, Social Security and Medicare benefits were to be funded by those who paid into the system. Other programs such as the new health care legislation, welfare, etc. are entitlement programs that take money from one group of people and transfer it to another. The recipients have not financially participated in funding these programs. That's a really big difference.
Phoniness of this movement? Sorry Froma, it is you who are the phony. We seniors paid into Social Securiity to provide for the generation preceding us while also trying to save money for our retirement. We had to maintain our health insurance while paying into Medicare to benefit those of the prior generation. For those of us who have survived to benefit, we now expect the same from the next generation. We did our share, do yours!
The fact that Social Security and Medicare are failing, along with almost every other program run by the government is not our fault but that of our government. Most of those in my generation were prudent and demonstrated self discipline financially and behaviorally. We are not the hippy generation, nor the following generations that lived beyond their means and had to have all the latest gadgets and toys. We were the generations born during the depression and WWII . We were raised to respect others, and be self-reliant. We understood the need to study, work, and save. We were not the spendthrifts, that "honor" belongs to your generation and the ones who have followed.
My generation and the ones that preceded it built the greatest country on earth economically and militarily. We revered this countrys founders and the principles established in our Constitution. It is the "hippy" generation and those that followed who have destroyed our greatness and our Constitution because they could not and would not accept personal responsibility. In my eyes you are all the "lost" generations and the phonies that don't accept your responsibility but always look to find others to blame. I pity you.
I can't begin to tell you how offended and angry I am at your editorial. My parents' generation fought and died for this country in WWII, they lived through the Great Depression, and they deserve nothing but praise not your derision. In case you're too stupid to realize it, these are the people who are currently receiving the Social Security and Medicare benefits we are talking about. Haven't they sacrificed enough? Now you want them to give up what they've earned so you don't have to pay. My, my.
My generation learned from them about the need to save and yes, sacrifice. so our children would hopefully be safe and secure and not have to endure the financial and emotional hardships experienced during the depression and WWII. These comprise the generations you speak of so distainfully when you write "tea party patriots are not clamoring to lift the taxpayers' yoke of subsidizing their retirements. The phoniness of this movement is hard to calculate."
It is your twisted logic and corruption of the motivation of this movement that are hard to calculate.

Great job!
The column hits right at the heart of Tea Party hypocrisy. In Az., we have been blessed(?) with our very own version of Tea Party hypocrisy. That most members are immigrants to AZ. is irony encased in hypocrisy, but I thought i'd share a sample of the "patriotism" these folks display:
QUOTE. ' Comment by Hap Cole 7 minutes ago @ Catherine
I agree with your last statement. Bush is still being accused of most issues by Obama instead of taking responsibility. Obama is an egomaciac who will only wants reverence, never any criticism. At least Bush let the words roll of his back while Obama gets his curely hair into knots. He can't take any heat at all. Just anger. That is the reaction of most imature males who haven't been taught to be polite. When he begins to take action on important issues and accepts criticism without rebuttle, then he is maturing. I don't think we will see it anytime soon. Sorry, Patrick, you are barking up the wrong tree with us. Your imaturity is evident also. You are just as angry as your "messiah." It shows in your rethoric as well. I wish all of you in Phoenix a great day!!!! END QUOTE.
This was in response to my asking why the level of personal atack on the president, while claiming the mantle of "patriotism" for themselves.
God help us in AZ., and nationwide.
Patrick Harris
Tempe, AZ.

Froma Harrop:

I am not in the Tea Party, but I agree with them 100%. You forgot to mention SSI, people coming into
our country and never having worked a day in their lives here , but getting a monthly retirement check
which I hear is bigger than mine. Also the anchor baby mothers who use birthing as an income in the US.

You left wing Idealogs are clueless and destructive. you are a waste of space in my paper.

fed up taxpayer

Froma Harrop:

I am not in the Tea Party, but I agree with them 100%. You forgot to mention SSI, people coming into
our country and never having worked a day in their lives here , but getting a monthly retirement check
which I hear is bigger than mine. Also the anchor baby mothers who use birthing as an income in the US.

You left wing Idealogs are clueless and destructive. you are a waste of space in my paper.

fed up taxpayer

Hmmmm.... I can't say whether I agree with the tea partiers as I'm still trying to figure out what they stand for. From my point of view, it's just a bunch of grammatically (and typo) challenged people looking for a place to "vent". This means that they get no support from someone who both has and values using the grey matter between the ears...namely ME.

Off to vote NO on Prop 16 ("Taxpayer's Right to Vote Act") here in California. Unfortunately, I think it will pass and the idiots who pass it will get exactly what they deserve... (continued) higher utility rates and lousy service.

Cheers,

-Brendan