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Jumping the Relationship Gun

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Dear Annie: Last month, an old boyfriend contacted me. I hadn't seen "Bud" in 30 years. We had a wonderful conversation. I visited him at his home. He even sent me a large sum of money to help pay off a mortgage bill. We now talk at least twice a day and always say "I love you." Bud speaks of a future together, but I told him that I want a commitment before I will sell my place and move to his town 300 miles away.

Here's the problem: Bud has had a female companion for 20 years. He told me that there is no longer any physical intimacy with "Jane," but they have a deep friendship. Bud is now going through some health issues that may prove to be quite serious. He asked Jane to go with him to an upcoming appointment for tests. I was disappointed that he didn't first ask me, even though I live out of state. I explained that I want to be there in good times and bad. He says he needs to get through this difficult time and then he will end the relationship with Jane.

If Bud's health deteriorates, I fear he never will be able to leave her and I will lose this loving man. Worse, he and Jane had arranged a week's vacation before we reconnected, and he's still planning to go.

Bud tries to reassure me, but I feel frustrated, depressed and helpless. I don't want to nag him or push him away. Should I give him a deadline? — P.H.

Dear P.H.: You have been with Bud for a month. It's not enough time to know his true motivations. We'll assume he didn't break things off with Jane because he wanted to be certain you were interested first, and now he is reluctant to rock the boat because she will be a source of support. As much as you'd like that role, you live too far away to be helpful. You need to step back. Send cards to wish him well, but understand that you are not his girlfriend.

Jane is. Let him know that you might be amenable to rekindling your romance if he is ever a free man — but not before.

Dear Annie: I work in an office with five other women. Our customers are primarily men. The problem is, all the other assistants dress provocatively, flirt and laugh loudly at our customers' lewd jokes. I am not like that, but every time I greet a customer with a smile, the girls say, "You must be in a good mood today," giving the impression that I'm otherwise a real witch. Co-workers within earshot snort and laugh. This really rankles me, because I am always in a good mood. I just don't fawn over the guys like the other women do.

This is happening more and more, and I am tired of it. Is there something I can say that will shut them up for good? — Just About Had It

Dear Had It: The co-workers tease you because they are guaranteed a flustered reaction. The best way to put a stop to it would be to laugh off these comments. That would not only defuse your anger, but also minimize their enjoyment.

Dear Annie: I read the letter from "A," the caregiver for her paralyzed mother. My mother also could be verbally abusive. After her doctor recommended putting her in a nursing home, she became worse. One day, my daughter said she wasn't going to listen to Grandma talk to me that way and dragged me out of the room. After that, whenever mom became abusive, we left. It took three times, and she never did it again.

No one should feel guilty about placing a parent in a nursing home when caregiving becomes impossible. What children should feel guilty about is never going to visit. — Monticello, Ind.

Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please email your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 737 3rd Street, Hermosa Beach, CA 90254. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.

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Comments

31 Comments | Post Comment
LW1 -
You told him you "want a commitment before you will sell your place and move to his town 300 miles away"? Gee, how wise of you. How about that he disengages himself from his previous relationship first?

I don't care if he's not married to his "female companion". He's been sharing a life with her for 20 years, for all practical purposes, she's his wife. That he should claim that there is "no longer any physicalk intimacy" is the oldest hook in the book, and you fell for it all the way to the sinker. I guess there's a sucker born every minute.

You will not lose "this loving man" if you "push". You will lose this CHEATING man. And rightly you should push, as well as question your priorities. Because, right now, you're getting involved with the equivalent of a MARRIED MAN, and one who is not even separated yet.

LW2 -
If you ever get visibly riled by their catty little digs, you'll only prove their point. My advice is to put on your best Barbie smile and soft voice and purr, "Why, yes, I'm in a very good mood today!"



Comment: #1
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat May 26, 2012 9:49 PM
* * * * PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT * * * *

LW3 refers to the first letter on 17 April 2012.

Posted on behalf of Beguiling Miss Pasko
Comment: #2
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat May 26, 2012 9:57 PM
LW1: In many states, your friend would be considered to be in a common law marriage and would be held to similar standards under the law (i.e. community property).

You have to understand that he is like any other married man. If you look at it that way, you will be much more able to shut this down. If it were me, I'd pay him back the money he gave and move on.
Comment: #3
Posted by: nanchan
Sat May 26, 2012 9:59 PM
How about this for LW2: With a pleasant smile and demeanor, say "I'm in a good mood every day. I'm just not a shameless hussy like the rest of you." The quaint old-fashioned phrase "shameless hussy" will probably disconcert them a bit.
Comment: #4
Posted by: SusanW
Sat May 26, 2012 11:12 PM
Re: Carly O

and we have YOU to chastise lise no matter what she says.

say, that reminds me... where's that PROOF ("seriously, you can't make this stuff up" quoth you) that you were going to provide showing that lise stated she is an anti-semite? we're waiting.... would you like ME to quote that post you were referring to? i know RIGHT where it is... ah... you DON'T want me to quote it because it proves you are WRONG.

how about you just leave lise alone. many of us here will report YOUR posts attacking her, just as we report nanchan's when she posts derogatory remarks about lise. remember your friend bloom hilda? want to sit on the creators naughty chair right next to hers?

KNOCK. IT. OFF. we are TIRED OF IT.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Catherine E
Sun May 27, 2012 12:07 AM
Re LW1: Lise is right. "Jane" is, for all practical purposes, "Bud's" wife. You are the mistress. Bud has demonstrated that, in spite of any claimed lack of physical intimacy, he is not going to leave her for you. Despite his monetary contributions and proclamations of romantic feelings, you aren't his chosen partner. Accept this, or move on.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Bear
Sun May 27, 2012 1:13 AM
Re: Carly O
And what exactly did I say that was so extreme? Apart from posting at all, as far as you're concerned.

Comment: #7
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun May 27, 2012 3:14 AM
LW1 - I agree with all of what Lise said. You are the equivalent of a new mistress embarking on an affair with a married man. If the "poor health" is actually true and not a figment of his imagination to use as an excuse for not leaving Jane, maybe he wants a "back up" care giver in case Jane isn't up for it. If you believe the "no longer physical intimacy", you shouldn't. That's the oldest line in the book -- right up there with "my wife doesn't understand me". It's hard to tell exactly what Bud's game is, but whatever it is the outcome will not be a good one for you.



@ Carly O -- Please keep your snarky comments to yourself or this site will ultimately get shut down again. The comments section is to leave comments on the letter writers, not to make nasty remarks about the other posters. If you disagree with Lise or any of us, that's fine, but please keep personal attacks out of it.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Kitty
Sun May 27, 2012 3:36 AM
Re: Kitty
And then, there's the fact that she's all ready to sell her house and move 300 miles away after one month. And for a man who hasn't terminated his previous relationship, and who doesn't look like he's about to any time soon. If this was a friend of mine, I'd tell her, Woah, Nellie, take your foot off the gas pedal, you're gonna crash into a wall!

Comment: #9
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun May 27, 2012 3:56 AM
Re: Lise Brouillette

Yes. This is all happening WAY too fast. I'm wondering what was going on in the LW's life that caused her to decide to take these drastic steps that suddenly.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Kitty
Sun May 27, 2012 4:00 AM
Is LW1 for real? Sometimes I find it hard to believe that people can be so naive. I'll leave the matter of the live-in girlfriend of 20 years aside for a moment.
This woman is probably in her fifties, yet she reconnects with an old boyfriend of 30 years and within a month of talking on the phone and visiting once, they're saying I love you's and she's considering selling her home and moving to be with him.
Hasn't she thought that the guy may be playing her for her money? I know he was the one who gave her money but that's the oldest trick that con artists use. They give you money to gain your trust and then they need a much bigger sum of money, for an emergency, in this case it will probably be to deal with his 'health issues'.
I know that's just one possible scenario and the guy may be genuinely interested in her, but it doesn't hurt to be a little cautious and not to jump in head first. After all, how well does she actually know the guy?
In the matter of the girlfriend, I think the Annies' response was spot on. This woman needs to wake up and realize that 'Jane' is this man's partner and she is just someone he has been flirting with for a month. And don't get me started on how she bought his 'no physical intimacy excuse'. She must be very desperate and gullible to believe this, especially given the fact that this guy doesn't seem to have any intention of breaking up with his girlfriend.
Comment: #11
Posted by: SummerGal
Sun May 27, 2012 4:18 AM
Re: SummerGal
"She must be very desperate and gullible to believe this"
Yeah, well, like I said in my extreme way, there's a sucker born every minute, who'll fall for the oldest line in the book! ;-D

Comment: #12
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun May 27, 2012 5:05 AM
my first thought was the story of the guy in the bar who asks a girl to go to bed for a ridiculous amount of money and she says yes. then he lowers the offer and she asks if he thinks shes a tramp. he replys // we've already established that now we're bartering.

taking the mortgage money put her in a position of guilt to some degree. he may have planned exactly that in the first place. it really looks like the oldest hook in the book as others have posted here.

my second question concerns his health. the writer doesn't say if they have been intimate. could he be claiming erectile issues with his present, and unintentional victim of this cad, girlfriend. then having a MIRACLE happening when he beds this woman.

there are lots of reasons for this woman to move very carefully. maybe , even consider returning the money to break free.
Comment: #13
Posted by: john mockus
Sun May 27, 2012 5:31 AM
LW1: I also find it hard to believe that anyone can be this naive. Seriously, she is ready to sell her house (which I assume took a long time to save up for and buy in the first place) and move if he would just commit? First, why would he commit when it's only been a month? And how dumb is she - helloooo, Jane IS the girlfriend. Talk about gullible! Of course Bud is still intimate with her! Bud is having his cake and eating it too - 2 girlfriends. He's got what he wants, but you do not. Forget him.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Salty
Sun May 27, 2012 6:22 AM
LW1--Honey you need to wake up from la la land. Here's what's going on. 'Bud' is in a 20 year relationship that's gone stagnate (at least according to him.) For a little thrill, he decides to look up an old flame from 30 years ago who happens to conveniently live out of state. You two hit it off and now you're feeling slighted because his actual girlfriend 'Jane' is the one who's there for him day to day. Let's get real. You've been with Bud for a month. You live out of state. And you're envisioning a future where you sell your house, pull up stakes and leave everything for "loving man?" Where can I get whatever drug you're on? Bud is a player. He's been playing Jane for 20 years and when he wrings every last drop out of her, he'll start playing you. Go take an ice cold shower then DTMFA!

LW2--The other office girls tease you because they view you as a stick in the mud. While they get their jobs done by plying the male clients with their feminine charms, you're actually a professional who gets the job done through hard work and aptitude. The next time one of your office mates pokes fun at you for greeting a customer with a smile, turn to her, smile sweetly and say "Barb, I really like you...You remind me of myself when I was young and stupid." Then continue going about your business.
Comment: #15
Posted by: Chris
Sun May 27, 2012 6:52 AM
Why pay back the money? If he is conning her - just deserts. If not it was certainly his decision to GIVE her the money and string her along. A simple email stating that when he is free she MAY be interested in continuing the relationship. Everything is in his court. I would not be waiting around. Of course we BTL don't realize what a catch he is ;0)! Sooooo, she needs to do what she wants and repent at her leisure.

Comment: #16
Posted by: Penny
Sun May 27, 2012 7:06 AM
Re: Penny

Why pay back the money? Have you ever heard of PRIDE?

LW needs to stand on her own two feet and it starts with paying the money back.

Catherine E/Lise: keeo reporting posts if you want to shut this site down. THATS what did it before. I have not said anything nasty, and I am entitled to my opinion. So is Carly O.
Comment: #17
Posted by: nanchan
Sun May 27, 2012 7:21 AM
Re: nanchan

a) I haven't reported anything at all ever since we got BTL back, so STOP PINNING THIS ON ME.
b) Yes, you, Carly O and anybody else are entitled to their opinions. However, if that opinion is off-topic, the others are entitled to their opinions too as to what to do about it. I cannot stop them, I do not control them, nor would *I* want to.

Comment: #18
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun May 27, 2012 8:16 AM
nanchan -- if you're truly concerned about not getting the place shut down, you need to chastise Carly O as well for engaging in behavior that violates TOS. You can't let her off simply because you agree with her opinion of Lise.

Yes, people can misuse the reporting button. But your characterization was unfair. The owners of the site do want users to alert them to personal attacks and other behavior that apparently violates TOS. They don't want their site associated with personal attacks.

The board was shut down because it became a swamp: vigilantes sought to dole out their idea of "justice" in the form of personal attacks that became increasingly vile and, when challenged by those who indicated that those attacks violated TOS, gleefully counter-reported THOSE people, even those merely suggested the report button as an option. IMO, that was indeed misuse of the report button.

If you feel Lise's post, or Catherine E's , or this one, for that matter, truly violates TOS, then by all means report it -- it's your duty as someone who wants to see this board continue.

Just be aware, however, that capricious reporting does have consequences -- it costs your credibility with the moderator(s). Catherine E is choosing to take that risk; you can, too.
Comment: #19
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun May 27, 2012 8:18 AM
LW1: Dial it way back, hon. I'm not going to call you "foolish" -- but I don't think you're thinking clearly either. It sounds as if you may have been in a pretty bad place 2 months ago. Perhaps a long-time love had walked out on you, or a job or health setback left you in dire financial straits and then, wham! - a guy you remember fondly calls you and makes you feel desirable and hopeful again. He's even generous enough to help you pay those bills.

But you are going WAY too fast, emotionally, for your own good. You've visited him once, you talk on the phone. You don't know Bill as well as you think you do. You know what he wants you to see.

I'm not persuaded that Jane is wife and you are mistress; I think it's possible that they are simply two people who work better as good friends than as lovers. Problem is, you can't know which it is based on less than 6 weeks of words from someone wooing you.

The Annies gave good advice. Be friendly, but not "girlfriendly". You would also do well to do as nanchan suggested and look at the money as loan and not gift. Start paying it back now, in regular if small amounts, and any romantic relationship that develops in the future will be the better for it. You'll both respect you more.

Comment: #20
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun May 27, 2012 8:34 AM
Re: Carly O (and anyone else that this applies to:)
Oh, for God's sake, please STOP!!!!!!!!! We know now that the monitors of this site, rather than ban those who are clearly using it to snipe at others they disagree with, will punish ALL of us. I'm hoping you really don't dislike Lise (or any other poster) to the extent that you want to see her shut down even if it means you, and everyone else, will be shut down too?
.
I often disagree with Lise. I often disagree with nanchan. I could say the same about most of the posters here. But SO WHAT? WHO CARES? AM I MORE RIGHT THAN THEY ARE, AND EVEN IF I AM, DO I NEED TO START SNIPING AND GET EVERYONE CUT OFF FROM POSTING?
Revolutionary thought: just state your opinion. If you want to, say "I disagree with (insert name here). I think (insert your own opinion here)."
And for those of you who think it was the REPORTING of the rude/nasty posts that got us shut down-------how about not posting them in the first place? I don't think the monitors do a very good jot of monitoring the BTL on their own, but they are forced to do so when numerous complaints are received. You don't want to be reported? Stop giving them the ammunition.
.
Re LW#1------I agree she is being very foolish to jump into anything. She has been in contact with this guy for all of 1 month, and has taken money from him. (Foolish.) He has been with his current woman (wife or not) 20 years, and is telling his new woman what every married guy says----------"We don't sleep together. I'm leaving her, just waiting for the right time." Yeah, sure.
---------------
Re W#2-------I have a bit of a different take on this. She works with 5 other women and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM flirts shamelessly? What are the odds? Is it possible she is just a holier-than-thou prude who occasionally shakes off that attitude when it's a client SHE is attracted to?
.
Her story is believeable if maybe a couple of the women are like this; but all five? Really?
----------------
Re LW#3------I totally agree that children should not feel guilty about having to place a parent in a nursing home if it becomes necessary. (
My mom does the guilt thing with us, and often makes little 'jokes' about which one of us SHE will choose to live with if the time comes that she can't be alone. If/when it does come, I think the joke will be on her, because none of could stand to live in the same house with her. I will visit lots, but give up my entire life to her abrasive demanding personality? I don't think so.
Comment: #21
Posted by: jennylee
Sun May 27, 2012 8:36 AM
Re: nanchan, Yes I have heard of 'pride' of which this woman apparently has none. Con artist need to be repaid in kind. That is how I viewed this man. I would not pay back the money - it has nothing to do with pride. There is no need to chastise people for their opinion. If you disagree post it as another opinion not as a fact that you, as an expert, are the only voice of expertise. I'm a pretty smart cookie too and have had many more year of experience in dealing with the world. Many of your post are well thought out albeit long and TMI in explaining why you are so knowledgeable. It may behoove you to look closely at how you respond to people. I have been on the end of your sharp stick before as have many on here. At this point you might want to rethink who is the problem BTL.
Comment: #22
Posted by: Penny
Sun May 27, 2012 9:06 AM
LW2: In just a few short sentences, you made it clear of very much you disapprove of your co-workers' dress and behavior. You don't have anything positive to say about them. My guess is that your disapproval of your coworkers comes through loud and clear over the course of the business day, and that because you don't like them you're assuming the worst of everything they say/do.

"You must be in a good mood today" doesn't imply you're a real witch on other days -- that is you inferring that meaning behind their words. There is a difference.

What you could say or do to shut them up is to lower the volume on your disapproval of them. Then you could probably pull off a "And why wouldn't I be in a good mood, being here with you all on this fine day?" Now, I don't think you could do that believably.

Comment: #23
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun May 27, 2012 10:10 AM
I am reporting ALL of the posts here today that are attacking me.

Penny/ise/Catherine..... whydo you insist on abusing me? I am not being rude, I am stating my opinion.

LEAVE ME ALONE!!!
Comment: #24
Posted by: nanchan
Sun May 27, 2012 10:39 AM
Re: nanchan, I was not attacking you. I was simply stating that you might want to look at the WAY you respond. Instead of "Have you ever heard of pride?" Of course I've heard of pride, I didn't feel it was pertinant in this case. Perhaps if you had worded it differently it wouldn't sound so bossy or accusatory. (This is all said in a nice tone.) Since we have no way of knowing how you mean these things maybe you could reread you responses before you post to see if they might read a bit too strong to the one you are responding to. Again, this is said to hopefully make you aware of why people take offense at your replies. How about, " I think this is a matter of pride." That way you would be stating your opinion and not 'shaking your finger' and 'rolling your eyes' at me. It 'appears' that you come out swinging if you disagree with people. Lise would be the first to agree with the fact that I have addressed her in the past about her language. She has tried to clean it up and has done a nice job (for the most part ;0) ). Thanks again Lise.
Comment: #25
Posted by: Penny
Sun May 27, 2012 11:19 AM
Re: nanchan
.
WE abuse YOU? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. NOBODY would "attack you" if you commented on the LW's letters and left your opinions on the other posters out of it.
.
re everybody else.... SCROLL UP, PLEASE.... carly o's post
,
"Comment: #4
Posted by: Carly O
Sat May 26, 2012 10:29 PM"
.
IS GONE.
.
she's had at least two other posts removed in the last two days. nanchan, you listening? have you noticed that bloom hilda has NOT POSTED since BTL was brought back? and you think it was OUR fault for reporting bloom hilda's attacks? we'll stop "attacking" you when you leave lise (and everyone else) alone and comment on the letters only.
Comment: #26
Posted by: Catherine E
Sun May 27, 2012 11:55 AM
LW2: That she is not dressing provocatively at work and not flirting with clients does not mean she is a prude or a stick in the mud. She is just being professional! Women who try to get ahead at work by flirting and dressing inapproprietly have always been used as examples to discredit all professional women and give an excuse to jerks who respond to every woman's advancement with comments of sleeping her way to the top.
The workplace is not supposed to be a place for flirting or even for a lot of socialiazing. That's what after-office hours are for. There's nothing wrong with keeping a polite and professional attitude at work.
The fact that such practices are even tolerated there leads me to believe that these women may be working on commission in an environment that promotes this type of behaviour to boost sales. A friend of mine used to work in sales in a field where almost all customers were men and most of her income was from commission. She said that all the women there flirted with the customers to make more sales and that there was a lot of competition between them. She couldn't afford to remain jobless or lose the commission income, but she looked frantically for a different job until she found one where her income wasn't based on how much cleavage she showed.
Comment: #27
Posted by: SummerGal
Sun May 27, 2012 12:07 PM
SummerGal, I'd agree that in most offices, the way to dress professionally is not to flaunt your sexuality, nor to flirt or encourage off-color jokes. I'd also agree that perhaps the women in LW's office are on commission...or perhaps that this is the vibe LW's boss has promoted by hiring these women, to make his office the one clients choose to do business with.

If LW likes her job and wants to continue in it -- or even if she just wants to avoid the "rankle" of the teasing, she's gotta realize that these women aren't being chastised for their attire and demeanor. She is the one out of place, and probably for a reason. (Heck, she could have been hired to prevent a lawsuit claiming "XYZ only hires C-cup blonde, former cheerleaders" -- or maybe to be the one who actually accomplishes real work. We don't know.)

So she'd do well to be friendly toward her co-workers, who outnumber her. This ain't bullying or intimidation -- it's minor workplace annoyance, and there's a good chance that a change in her attitude toward them will result in her being left alone. I'd say it's a better approach than some trying to shut them up with a snappy comeback.

Comment: #28
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun May 27, 2012 12:32 PM
Re: SummerGal

i agree completely. i used to work for a national chain drugstore as a store asst manager. the woman who ran the cosmetics department liked to show LOTS of cleavage. she was supposed to wear a cosmetics smock which was part of the uniform, but didn't because it would hide her "assets". the store manager (a male) allowed her to get away with breaking dress code, apparently because he liked the view. one day, in an assistant's meeting, he told us that dress code was getting very lax and that we needed to enforce it better. when i brought up the cosmetics manager, he told me "that's different, she's trying to boost sales in her department". i politely explained that if you are going to enforce the dress code for the entire store, that includes EVERYONE, including dept heads. he begrudgingly agreed and told her to cover up. within two weeks, she was back to showing just about everything but nipples. i gave up and found a job with another drugstore chain, albeit not just because of that incident. i heard later from a co-worker with whom i had kept in touch that the cosmetics manager had been made the corporate district cosmetics manager. i guess it pays to "advertise".
Comment: #29
Posted by: Catherine E
Sun May 27, 2012 12:33 PM
Re: nanchan
"I am reporting ALL of the posts here today that are attacking me."
.
you go right ahead. and be sure to quote the entire post so that the mods can see for themselves that what we say are actually legitimate complaints. it will help OUR case, not yours.
.
BTW, i just checked my sent file and i have not reported any of your posts... only carly o's. if you keep up your attitude and attacks, i will start reporting you, too.
.
LW1,
interesting that bud contacted YOU... and sang his sad song. and, apparently, played his violin as accompaniment. and, you FELL for it. and he must have sung and played well because after ONE MONTH, you're ready to sell your house and move 300 miles away to be with him... except for that pesky "jane" person who keeps getting in the way. and he's still going on that vacation with her, after proclaiming his love for YOU?
.
yup, give him a deadline.... NOW. not another month. NOW. "her or me" and see what he says. if he "loves" you, he'll dump her immediately. if he's playing you, he'll continue the sweet talk... and the "deep friendship" with jane.

Comment: #30
Posted by: Catherine E
Sun May 27, 2012 1:13 PM
@ You know who you are...

Girls, please take your cat fight elsewhere. Why any of you would care one whit about what some Internet stranger says about you boggles the mind! Grow up; all of you! Try getting off the computer for awhile and going outside into the real world where you'll find the problems there far outweigh some crybaby nonsense you might be experiencing in an advice column comments section.
Comment: #31
Posted by: Chris
Sun May 27, 2012 1:23 PM
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