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I'm 27 and have not yet had children. Several of my friends are having their second or …Read more.
The Long Trip to Tenuous
Dear Annie: My father and I have never had the best relationship. He was domineering, controlling and verbally abusive to me as a teenager, and as a result, I rebelled and did things specifically to irritate him. Several times, he kicked me out of …Read more.
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The Danger of Indulging the Fantasies of the Underaged
Dear Annie: I am 18 and had been seeing casually a 15-year-old girl who lives down the street. We were mostly friends, although she hinted that she wanted something more out of the relationship.
When I turned 18, my father had a serious talk with me about the responsibilities associated with becoming a legal adult. One area of discussion included dating minors and some of the possible consequences. After listening to Dad, I decided it was better to break off my friendship with this girl, telling her that I was busy with high-school sports and a part-time job.
Should I have handled it differently? — Confused 18-Year-Old
Dear Confused: We are impressed with your willingness to gather advice, especially from your father. It's OK to be friends with anyone, as long as they understand the boundaries. Your 15-year-old neighbor doesn't quite get this. Your father cautioned you because he sees that this girl is infatuated, and it puts you in a vulnerable position. You may become convinced that indulging her romantic fantasies would make you a nice guy, but it doesn't, and worse, it can lead to a situation that is dangerous for you.
You don't have to avoid her completely, but you should keep a safe distance so she doesn't get the impression that there is any possibility for more. You sound like a thoughtful young man and undoubtedly recognize that intimacy should not be treated lightly.
Dear Annie: Please print this. I'm certain it applies to others.
An Open Letter to My Granddaughter:
I've spent the past 20 years dealing with your drama. Last night, you cried and told me how I'm making things harder for you. You also admitted that you are abusive and told me several things you want.
Now let me tell you what I want. I want a life free from abuse. I want serenity. I want fun. I want to live my life to the fullest without medication to help me deal with the stress and anxiety that have become a part of every day. I want to put my head on my pillow at night without fearing a distress call from you.
I want to use my income to enjoy the time I have left on this earth instead of putting it where I know it is needed, but not appreciated. I want to make plans with friends without worrying that you will call and I will have to put your needs before my own once again. I want to live without threats or attempts at intimidation. I want to make my own choices about who to speak to and what to say, without being accused of things I have not done. I want to trust those I allow into my home without fear that my things will be destroyed or stolen.
I want to be loved for who I am, not for what I can provide. I want someone who is there for me as I have always been there for you. I want you to have a full and productive life, living up to the potential I see in you. — Grandmother
Dear Grandmother: It is hard to say no to a grandchild, but sometimes you can become a crutch instead of a source of strength and support. You have written sensible words. We hope you can follow them.
Dear Annie: My jaw dropped when I read the letter from "Proud Vet," who was trying to find work to support his sons, who are jobless and living at home. Why aren't the sons mowing lawns, washing dishes, doing anything so that Mom isn't working 60 hours a week and Dad isn't trying to find another job to support them?
What a wacky world when children think they are somehow entitled to have their parents support them. Although, in all fairness, it seems parents sometimes subscribe to the same theory. — Tough Love Advocate in Manitoba
Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please e-mail your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 5777 W. Century Blvd., Ste. 700, Los Angeles, CA 90045. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
COPYRIGHT 2011 CREATORS.COM
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40 Comments | Post Comment
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LW1-
You do NOT want to be branded a sexual offender for the rest of your life because you had sex with a 15 year-old. When she's 18 and you're 21, it won't matter, in fact, it'll be perfect - if she'll wait for you, which is unlikely. Three years at her age is like three centuries.
I too am impressed - there aren't many 18 year-olds who are not convinced that everything coming out of their old man's mouth is passe, out of touch and uncool. I think you will grow up to be a remarkable man.
LW2-
Sounds like a plan to me. Time to implement it. Sometimes, tough love is what stands between entitlement and eternal dependence, and maturity. Not always, but she won't reach it with someone enabling her, that's for sure.
Your granddaughter sounds like a piece of work and YOU sound like you've had it. I can hardly blame you. Keep in mind that, with someone like that, it doesn't matter what you do and how much you give - it's not enough, it's never enough, NOTHING is ever enough. For you to sacrifice yourself doesn't even do any good, because her user-unfriendly dependence is like a black hole of need, and she'll suck you dry of everything you've got, only to then move on to a juicier target.
it's time to think of yourself, you've worked hard enough to earn it. Call screening was developed for a reason - use it. Enough already.
LW3-
LW2, did you read that? You don't want to be the one writing that kind of letter shortly.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:23 PM
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LW1 - I'm not sure what other answer you were expecting. Yes, it was right to curb her interest because she is a minor. Gold star.
Where are the Annies getting the idea that the girl is an obsessed, infatuated lunatic? All we know is that she hinted she might want something more. Whatever that means. LW1 doesn't even indicate she reacted badly.
LW2 - An open letter to LW2:
Get a backbone and learn how to say "no".
The end.
LW3 - Wacky world indeed. BFD. People can only take advantage of you if you let them.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Zoe
Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:24 PM
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Zoe, your response to LW2 was exacly what I was thinking.
LW1: OK, you got your validation from the Annies, yay for you. I would like to add one word of additional advice to you. When you are involved in a relationship with someone that you know has significantly stronger feelings for you than you do for them, it's not a good idea to string them along because of your own selfish needs. I'm not saying that you are doing this, nor that you have. But be careful moving forward and recognize that someone that you think you are "casually" dating may not view it the same find out way you do, especially if they are hinting "that she wanted something more out of the relationship". The fair, and ultimately smart thing to do when involved in this type of a relationship is to make sure that you are as honest as possible because people get a little ticked off if they find out that you are stringing them along.
Again, I'm not saying you are/were doing this, just be careful.
PS: Make sure you tell your Dad thanks for loving you enough to have what was no doubt a difficult conversation for him to have with him and while you're at it, you should probably tell him you love him too.
Comment: #3
Posted by: nanchan
Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:01 PM
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LW1 seems to be showing remarkable maturity for a teenager. This is essentially a sophomore in high school being friends with a senior, not at all uncommon, even including dating. It's funny that the day before his birthday, dating a girl two years younger was fine, then after that day, if his relationship was physical, it's illegal. But he is being smart and it's more than likely he is also self-aware enough to have done this in a way that wasn't deliberately hurtful.
It's impossible not to end up hurting somebody at some point in time, even if you do everything right. When dating and feelings and love (and even sex) get involved, especially when you are young, people get hurt. You can't avoid that. But you can avoid doing things to make the hurt worse, and it sounds like LW1 has done that.
LW2, how did you let this situation become so bad that it got to this point? Are/were you the primary caretaker of your granddaughter? Where are the parents in all this? And... if you did help raise her, what has been your role in creating this relationship?
Life is rarely black and white. At some point in the past, she was the child, and you were the adult. Some thing, or several things, must have gone off track, and you helped to set the pattern that exists today. But that's actually good news, because you have the power to change this as well. It's not enough to simply blame your granddaughter for everything and claim victim status. You need to recognize how you helped enable this behavior and make appropriate changes, stand up for yourself, change this dynamic. It won't just help you, it will help her also.
Re: LW3, if I remember it correctly, there was nothing in the original letter to suggest the sons weren't actively trying to find whatever work they could, just that they hadn't found anything permanent yet, and so the LW felt a natural responsibility to try to take care of his whole family. Frankly, that's a natural impulse that parents all across this nation are feeling, given the extended high unemployment rate and the weak economy. Some economists are suggesting the "real" unemployment figures are closer to 20% than what the official reports suggest... that's nearly one out of every 5 adults unemployed or underemployed. There's not enough new jobs created to put a dent in such a figure, so It's a bad idea to assume that unemployed = lazy.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Mike H
Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:56 AM
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L2. Your letter could have been written by me with the substitution of my former partners name. A 10year roller coaster ride with broken promises and shattered dreams. I finally found the backbone to say no more. It was the most difficult As well as best thing that I ever did. He tried to destroy my life and reputation when he found he could no longer get what he wanted from me. Back away now before your granddaughter destroys your life. Get into concealing and reclaim your life.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Bg
Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:20 AM
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LW1 - Yes, you (and your dad) did the right thing. Good for you!
LW2 - You are doing the right thing and please stick to it.
LW3 - "Proud Vet" is not doing the right thing and is a fool.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Rick
Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:30 AM
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In LW!'s state it may be true that 18-year-old plus 15-year-old plus sex is illegal (it's not illegal to date anyone of any age, the restriction is only on sexual activity), but in many states, it's not. Whenever there is a question, check the laws in your own state- they are terribly inconsistent!
Comment: #7
Posted by: Jodie
Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:41 AM
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LW1--"I am 18 and had been seeing casually a 15-year-old girl who lives down the street." "When I turned 18, my father had a serious talk with me about the responsibilities associated with becoming a legal adult." You did exactly the right thing by cooling things with the neighbor girl and handled the situation exactly as a responsible adult should. In fact, you should call your father today and thank him for not only doing his job as a father, but also for raising a smart, responsible young man. Many young men in your position would have succumbed to their hormones and possibly sealed their fate forever as a teenage parent or worse, a lifetime as a registered sex offender. While many may not see the harm in two young people doing what comes naturally; some might even cite normalcy of teen brides in America's colorful past as proof positive that "it's no big deal" you and I know today's society is very different. You have your entire life ahead of you and ample opportunity to date. It seems as though your future is a bright one. Bravo! My compliments on your cool thinking and excellent parents!
LW2--My hat is off to you Grandma! You're very smart to see that fueling the insatiable black hole of neediness from a wayward child or grandchild has many implications that run the gamut from emotional to medical to financial. It seems as though you've reached the end of your rope with your granddaughter and it may be time to administer a little tough love, as hard as that might be for both of you to accept. Clip this letter and show it to your granddaughter today. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they're willing to see the light and start taking responsibility for their own actions and their own lives. Sleep well knowing you've done the best you can but knowing it's not your job or sworn duty to ensure your granddaughter keeps her life on track.
LW3--Amen!
Comment: #8
Posted by: Chris
Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:37 AM
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There is no suggestion that Lw1 was having sex with a 15 year-old. They were "casual friends" and she "hinted" she wanted something more. The Annies did not suggest that she was becoming a "maniac," only that the father could easily see how she would become infaturated. I don't see this as his writing in for validation. He says he told her that he was busy with sports and his job and asked if he did "right" - possibly as opposed to coming out and telling her the real reason he was breaking it off. The flip side is a 15 year old girl who writes in about the boy she likes who turned 18 and suddenly doesn't have time for her. And then BTL goes ape on him and says he was a jerk and a coward, and she's better off without him. I think there's room in there for him to explain to her that he's uneasy dating someone that age now that he's legally an adult.
LW2 is classic. Instead of telling her granddaughter straight up all the things that are driving her crazy, she writes an "open letter" which it's highly unlikely the granddaughter will see. LW2 does not "have to" put the granddaughter's needs before her own. She does not "have to" do any of the things she says. What she has to do is get a backbone and then brace herself for the fallout - which she helped create.
Comment: #9
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:45 AM
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Wow. I just invented a new word. "Infaturated" . Sure wish this pale grey type was easier to read.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:49 AM
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While I agree with all the answers to LW2... am I the only one to see there MAY BE danger involved? If her granddaughter has been threatening and intimidating her already - there is a very real chance that she may go off the "deep end" if suddenly told - no more. I suggest that LW2 needs to enlist some help.. be it from a church, police, senior-citizen advocate... but make sure someone knows whats been happening and there is always someone to call / someplace to go - just in case. There - at least I feel better about the situation...
Comment: #11
Posted by: Casey
Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:18 AM
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LW2
Your granddaughter has made your life nubiferous, but it seems you are starting to see more clearly. The silver lining is this letter to the Annies. Cut it out, laminate it and read it every morning and night. You deserve your freedom from this woman-child and you will need strength to break out of your former habits. Good luck.
```
Comment: #12
Posted by: Word A Day Mate
Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:56 AM
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Re: Maggie Lawrence
The Annies said: "Your father cautioned you because he sees that this girl is infatuated" - that's a pretty clear statement. For whatever reason (maybe something was edited out) the Annies believe the girl is obsessed. They go on to use words like: "vulnerable" and "romantic fantasies"... you'd think there should be another line from LW1 saying "and now she's obsessed with me and won't leave me alone!" but there isn't.
And what does this come from?
"And then BTL goes ape on him and says he was a jerk and a coward, and she's better off without him."
Is that actually a thing that happened here or did you make up a scenario to get indignant about?
Your response to LW2 was spot on but it's like you read a different L1 than the rest of us did.
Comment: #13
Posted by: Zoe
Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:45 AM
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Re: Maggie Lawrence
No, there was no suggestion that the LW was having sex with the girl - that's the whole point. That's precisely why the father had "the talk" with him when he turned 18, so that it doesn't get to that - at least before the girl is of age. Wise father, to foresee what could lead to lifelong consequences, and wise boy, for listening.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:00 AM
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LW1 - You have an excellent head on your shoulders. You did what was best for you and you thought it out very sensibly. Nicely done!
I know it has to be hard because it sounds like you liked this girl, but you have to think about your future. You will have a very bright one ahead of you if you continue to keep your eye on your priorities like you are. Kudos to your father for having that talk with you, too.
LW2 - Wow. I could have written that letter except it would be to my daughter. You stated yourself very well. I hope you print out your own letter and give it to your granddaughter. You are actually doing a very loving thing by setting boundaries and not tolerating her abuse anymore. She needs to learn about accountability from someone and it sounds like you care enough to do that.
Zoe - What LW2 wrote IS her growing a backbone and saying no. Not sure how it could be interpreted any other way than her saying she's had it and she's not tolerating the drama anymore.
LW3 - Good points all around.
Comment: #15
Posted by: PS
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:18 AM
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Re: Casey
Good point: the line " I want to live without threats or attempts at intimidation." is pretty telling. We don't know what the threats are, or what she is intimidating her with ("I'll never speak to you again!") but then the line " I want to trust those I allow into my home without fear that my things will be destroyed or stolen." really amps up the fear factor.
If she is reading here, yes, LW, get a backbone. You HAVE allowed this to happen. I don't say this to be UNKIND, I say this because it's true. When someone threatens you, intimidates you, makes you live in fear.... well, my friend dear LW, it's time to protect yourself and yes, that means doing some hard things that do include standing up for yourself. I'm not sure by your letter just how bad it is, but if you have to, you may need to get a restraining order and cut all contact off with her. It may mean a move out of your home, possibly to another city or state, I don't know.
My advice to you, if you had asked, which you didn't, you only seemed to want to vent which is why noone ELSE has given you any advice, would be to contact social services. Depending on YOUR age, the way your granddaughter is treating you could be considered elder abuse. If you are in the US, every county has an agency on aging issues (they all seem to have different names, but the function is the same) that can gie you guidance. Social Services, 211, is the place to start.
But publishing an open letter to the annies, probably won't get anything done. Good call, Casey.
Comment: #16
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:22 AM
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LW1: Turning 18 has its OH YES!! and OH NOOOOO! attached to it. It is such a tramatic age. Old enough to get into legal trouble that your parents took care of when you were a few years younger, yet not mature enough to really understand what the full adulthood is about.
You did correctly. You have a good head on your shoulders, and if you continue through life thinking through consequences before acting on whims, you will be so successful, as well as happy with yourself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LW2: THIS IS CALLED TOUGH LOVE and until implemented, some kids think the world is theirs to do with as they wish.
Thanks for the letter. Our tough love started as children--knowing YOU were not first. Maybe cause we had a special needs brother who needs physically had to be come first, along with that the rest fell in line.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LW3: PLEASE REFER BACK TO LETTER ONE'S LETTER TO HER GRANDDAUGHTER. COPY AND HAND IT TO YOUR SONS.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Joyce/MN
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:48 AM
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Maggie, you make some good points. I think I'd advise that he could speak to her IF she's shown herself in other disappointing situations to act maturely. He's given us very little to go on to judge that.
Explaining that the age difference puts HIM at risk opens up a whole new area that also makes certain assumptions about her behavior that she could find insulting: -that she would push for sex that he had declared out of bounds, that they both might "get carried away" in a situation even if they both had agreed there would be no sex, or that she (or her parents) might falsely accuse him of having sex with her at some point in the future (which is a potential consequence of dating a minor even if the young man never touches her). A more general "you're too young for me" opens the door for her to decide she will prove that she's NOT a little girl anymore.
I think he treated her kindly and with respect in that he didn't just disappear without explanation, leaving her wondering what she'd done wrong. He gave her an honest, if incomplete, explanation -- that his other activities left him no time to date her, and I think that's all he owes someone with whom he had a casual, "mostly friends" relationship but who wanted more.
(Zoe, the Annies didn't say the girl was infatuated -- they said that Dad had the talk with LW because DAD sees the girl as infatuated and his son's position as vulnerable. And it sounds like Dad knows how to talk so teen-agers will listen -- SO much better than trying to "forbid" the kid to see this girl...)
Comment: #18
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:53 AM
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Re: PS
If LW2 were "manning up" so to speak, she'd be telling all that to her granddaughter, NOT writing an "open letter" to her that she will never see to an advice columnist.
Re: hedgehog
But we have no indication his dad thinks that way, let alone that he's right. For all we know he just doesn't want his son to wind up in jail and this nothing at all to do with the girl.
Comment: #19
Posted by: Zoe
Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:15 AM
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Zoe, your first post indicated that you interpreted the Annie's response as thinking that the girl had turned into some kind of "maniac." I'm saying there's nothing beyond what the father sees as 15 year-old infatuation - which could be troublesome enough. I re-read their response and it sounds pretty reasonable to me. 15 year old girls DO indulge in romantic fantasies and it could put him in a vulnerable position if he isn't careful. And that's all they said.
Yes, there have been many letters on this forum written by women who got dumped by men, they don't know why, and BTL (many of them) tell her she's lucky to be rid of him. I'm not spending my afternoon hunting down chapter and verse, but I would think you'd remember reading them as well.
Lise, saying "You do NOT want to be branded a sexual offender for the rest of your life because you had sex with a 15 year-old" sounds like you assumed he's contemplating sex with a 15 year old. Sounds just the opposite to me. He wants to know if telling her he's too busy with sports and work to continue the friendship is the right response. I'm only adding that he could probably tell her more of the truth than he's done and live to tell about it.
Comment: #20
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:19 AM
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My misquote - Zoe said "Where are the Annies getting the idea that the girl is an obsessed, infatuated lunatic? " I'm saying there's nothing in their response that even remotely suggests this idea.
Comment: #21
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:23 AM
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Re: Maggie Lawrence
Yeah, "lunatic" probably wasn't the right word. Sorry.
But I still believe that the Annies portrayed this girl as infatuated (their word this time ;)) without any evidence or without anyone even suggesting it. All we know if she hinted that she wanted a bit more out of the relationship (that could mean she hinted that he should go with her to a dance just as easily as it could mean she wanted something physical).
Comment: #22
Posted by: Zoe
Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:55 AM
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Cannot seem to get this to post in yesterday's section, so I'm trying on today's section. Apologies to all for dragging this on to today, but I wanted to give Lise my reply:
Lise--Since I don't have idle hours on my hands to lurk around waiting for your response, of which I was positive wouldn't take too long since I recognize you as one of the ubberly regular posters, I'm just now getting back to see the several responses my posting initiated.
First, my apologies, for spelling your name incorrectly, as I also have issues with the proper spelling of my name (thanks Mom!). I also give thanks to nanchan who clarified that I likely was confusing you and another regular poster, Lisa B (my apologies to Lisa B as well). While I recognize that many people post regularly, I do not have the space in my memory to keep mental tabs on who each person is. This appears to be a social gathering place for some people, kind of like a support group, and I think that is great for those who need/enjoy it.
However, I still stand behind my opinion of your comments being vulgar (calling the doctors "f*ckers"); spiteful (give it back and tell them this is your gift to them); and downright evil (He was never nice, he was just sufficiently motivated somehow to put a clamp on it. Evidently, he no longer is, and you're seeing the true him). None of your comments were helpful to any of the writers, but in fact, to use your own words: you perceive yourself as blunt but were actually being mean-spirited and vicious. Do you really think a doctor wants to miss a potentially terminal diagnosis? Or that a woman who is trying to curtail the gift-giving wants to shove a gift back into someone's face? Or that EVERY person who has developed a significant change in personality has always had this underlying, simmering pot of hate in their body just waiting for the right time to spew onto anyone within reach?
Instead, you should have encouraged LW1 to go back to the doctor and SHOW them the test results that they should have ordered so they don't take the same risk with someone else's life; suggested to LW2 to decline the gift or just graciously accept the one that is being given anyway; and commended LW3 for finding a way to manage a very difficult situation with grace and peace. Should any of the LWs actually read your response, it would serve only to encourage them to be as vindictive and bitter and resentful as you appear to be yourself.
I have no anti-Lise bandwagon to jump on--my fingers just flew into what I would only describe as my Mother's Evil Eye Glare that I would have given to my own children had they made these same comments. Because glaring at my computer screen wasn't getting the point across, my fingers and words had to.
Many thanks, too, for those who had my back, and my MEE Glare!
Comment: #23
Posted by: chaz
Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:21 PM
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LW1: re - previous posters who are validating that the LW did the right thing by breaking it off:
I don't think that was his question - he definitely decided to break it off - he was just asking if he should have handled the break up differently. To answer that, I think yes, becoming "too busy" was the right the way to go. Wait until she starts bothering him about dating, and at that point you should be honest and say that she's too young for you (maybe add "maybe when you're 18", if you actually feel that way).
Comment: #24
Posted by: Steve C
Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:16 PM
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oe -- I just don't think it's an unreasonable or harmful assumption. "She hinted she wanted something more out of the relationship" does not sound to me like someone who just wanted a date to a school dance -- it sounds like someone who wants a romantic relationship. And "infatuated" is not a character flaw -- it's something most of us are prone to, and it's pretty much the universal condition of 15 year olds.
I think the Annies gave pretty good advice; they even suggested he could have remained friends with her. I admit the line about boundaries that she "doesn't quite get" threw me for a moment, but on reflection, I didn't see it as reference to stalking or obsession, but to her being unaware that LW puts himself at risk if he dates her solely because of her age. Most teen girls are unaware that they are legally incapable of consenting to sex with an 18 YO; they just don't tend to think of themselves as "jailbait" except perhaps in terms of much older guys. Or that nothing even has to happen for him to be suspected of taking advantage of her.
I do suspect there was more to this letter, based on the final line of their answer about intimacy not being taken lightly and the emphasis on romantic fantasies in the headline.
Comment: #25
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:16 PM
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All you other girls out there--remember back when you were 15 and an older, attractive guy came into your orbit. I'd bet that 99% of us would have fantasies and a crush. If the girl is a reasonably intelligent, responsible person, she should be aware of being jailbait; a headstrong and irresponsible drama queen could play this into real trouble. If more people were like LW1, there would be a whole lot less dysfunctional families out there.
Comment: #26
Posted by: partsmom
Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:27 PM
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All you other girls out there--remember back when you were 15 and an older, attractive guy came into your orbit. I'd bet that 99% of us would have fantasies and a crush. If the girl is a reasonably intelligent, responsible person, she should be aware of being jailbait; a headstrong and irresponsible drama queen could play this into real trouble. If more people were like LW1, there would be a whole lot less dysfunctional families out there.
Comment: #27
Posted by: partsmom
Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:27 PM
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chaz - It's interesting that you feel the need to offer a parental sign of disapproval to someone you don't know. It sounds as if your mother reserved it for her children, and you reserved it for yours -- because parents are responsible for teaching their children proper behavior; they believe a child's misbehavior reflects poorly on their parenting skill. Do you use this evil eye glare when a coworker of your ranking refers to all doctors or lawyers as money-grubbing [vulgarity of your choice]? Your boss? Your neighbors? My guess is no -- it's inappropriate.
And it doesn't translate through a computer screen for good reason. The beauty of the evil eye glare is that it registers the disapproval of someone important to the child immediately and SILENTLY, so that others aren't even aware of the correction. The child (adult or minor) is made aware: Stop what you're doing right now -- you know what it is -- or we will be discussing this in PRIVATE.
As I see it, it's a little arrogant and condescending to assume the parental role with a stranger who is your age or possibly older -- do you even know? And even more so to single her out publicly.
Comment: #28
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:42 PM
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Re: Maggie Lawrence
You could be right. Mind you, considering how teenagers generally are... yeah, he was probably contemplating sex with her, and more than likely she was also. We don't know what exactly was included in that father-son conversation, but very likely it was about what could happen to him if he got a 15 year-old girl pregnant, if he got charged with statutory rape and the dangers of "casual relationships" with someone who might fall in love witgh him.
@Chaz
Frankly, I thought the Annies answers was fine, but giving them back the gift might be appropriate in some instances, and so my post offered the alternative idea. It doesn't cancel out the suggestion of giving to charity in their name, but there will be some relatives for whom this is the needed response, because being nice is never enough for them to get the point. The LW is best suited to know what is best.
I really don't see myself as mean-spirited and vicious and neither do the people who apreciate me - except in very rare occasion, I don't indulge in name-calling, nor do I ridicule people for disagreeing with me. I'm the first one to state that everyone has a right to post, including the hate-Lise fan club - that's being very fair, hardly vicious.
Nobody WANTS to shove the gift back, nut it may in some cases be needed. Nobody WANTS to miss a potential terminal diagnosis - but SOME doctors have gotten complacent and would need a wake-up call, because if the LW hadn't pursued the matter much more dilligently than some doctors, she would have died. I think they need to be told.
I am not vindictive - how did THAT come about? That would be about vengeance, just about the opposite of what I am. What I also am NOT is politically correct, and it is true that I don't suffer fools gladly. That doesn't make me bitter, resentful, vindictive, vicious, hateful (insert whatever else)...
I have absolutely no problem with people who are exactly like me, that is, blunt and sometimes even crude, but not vicious. I much prefer someone who uses four-letter words but is frank, to someone uber-polite to the point of hypocrisy. But that's me. I don't expect everybody to like me. You probably much prefer posters like Sharnee and Micheal (for instance), whom I both like a lot - they're very, very nice. I'm not. I can be kind and even gentle and I'm compassionate, but I'm NOT "nice". That doesn't make me vicious. There is a difference. A lot of people don't make it. Don't be one of them.
P.S.: I don't have that much time, BTW... especially now that I have a job on top of the selling. But I was gifted with the ability to write fast and reasonably well and I type 50 words a minute. I also know all the shortcuts!
Comment: #29
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:43 PM
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LW1: Yes, you did the right thing. Maybe nothing would have gone wrong, but you could have been on the way to disaster. It may sound hyped up, but people's lives have been drastically changed due to a vengeful accusation.
LW2: Just Say No. And it may get ugly. But most people don't get better until they hit bottom, and you're currently standing between her and "bottom." Easier said than done, I know, but it's the right thing to do for her as well as you.
LW3: These people drive me nuts. I went on a rant recently under Dr. Wallace's BTL for this very reason. Does no one realize how high the youth unemployment rate is?! I don't know the people involved. Maybe it IS laziness and a sense of entitlement. Or, they're doing the best they can and simply can't find work (rather like the older man who wrote the letter in the first place).
Comment: #30
Posted by: Jers
Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:16 PM
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I agree with everyone on here with the response to LW1. I do think he over-reacted by breaking off the friendship (from what I interpret) totally with the girl. He can be friends with her, certainly, and can still do so by playing it safe. From what I gather from the letter, his father has raised a good young man, and has also taught him about controlling himself.
Then again, you never know. For some teen-aged boys in LW1's shoes, they might have repressed feelings for their underaged girlfriend -- they're playing it safe while the girl is longing for a "physical" relationship -- and, given the wrong set of circumstances things happen (which they most certainly can, and have) ... trouble.
I agree with Mike H: It is funny that when a boy (or girl) is 17, they can do whatever they want with their underaged girlfriend (assuming they're close in age, like 15 or 16), but when they turn 18 and have sex ... they're a pedophile. I'd much rather spend my time going after actual pedophiles (e.g., Jerry Sandusky) rather than worry about an 18 year old having consensual sex with his 16-year-old girlfriend, if you ask me. But then again, I'm not the ones making the laws.
And Jers is right -- an angry father will have much far weight in court than his daughter's boyfriend, even if he is squeaky clean and comes from a home where the Bible is read.
Comment: #31
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:40 PM
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Re: Maggie Lawrence
It might be a reasonable assumption based on her age and gender but it is nonetheless an assumption. We have NO indication that she was infatuated in any way. It would be just as unfair to lecture LW1 about being sex obsessed because he's an 18 year old male - as in, he probably does think about it a lot, but we don't know if he does, or if he acts on or wants to act on any of those thoughts.
Comment: #32
Posted by: Zoe
Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:06 PM
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Hey Lise, it's getting late where I am and maybe if I whisper this, no one else will see. Did you know that the expression "suffer fools gladly" comes from Paul's letters to the Corinthians in the New Testament? Someone a long time ago picked it up and started announcing that they "don't suffer fools gladly" and now, (insert frustrated oath here) you're doing it too. For at least the fourth time. Probably the fifth. And I'll bet everybody knows you'll be 60 in January. Happy Birthday early. Really - it's not necessary to repeat things all the time. (Remember how Jean used to tell everybody what happened to her when she was three EVERY time an issue of sexual abuse arose? Gee. Wonder what happened to ole' Jean anyway.) Have another glass of wine. On me.
Comment: #33
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:38 PM
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Re: Maggie Lawrence
So it came fome Paul's letters to the Corinthians. Thanks for the interesting info. So I've said it three or four times in the some 15 months plus I've been posting here. That's once every four or five months. And yeah, I'll be 60 in January. So?
Comment: #34
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:00 PM
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You know what's fun to do? Press ctrl+f to do a search. Type in "I " (capital i and then a space), click "highlight all". It will highlight all the Is on the page. If you scroll through the comments regularly and notice that your posts light up like Christmas trees, it might mean you should be talking more about the relevant topics at hand and less about yourself. Just sayin'.
Comment: #35
Posted by: Zoe
Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:10 PM
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Zoe: I read your last comment while watching a segment of 60 Minutes on foreclosures with my daughter. I laughed out loud and she looked at me and said "Mom! How can you laugh at foreclosures!?"
Note to self: do not read Zoe's comments while pretending to be serious watching news shows with daughter.
thanks for the laugh!
Comment: #36
Posted by: nanchan
Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:19 PM
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@Maggie L
Actually, if a 15 YO girl came whining to me that the 18 YO kid she likes suddenly doesn't have time for her, I'd be the one to tell her he dodged a bullet.
On the other hand, and this is purely for information purposes, whether or not an 18 YO can be prosecuted for statutory rape depends on state laws for age of consent. For example, until a few years ago, the age of consent where I live was 14 (I know, EW!). It was changed to the ripe old age of 16. There are few states where the age of consent is actually 18.
That being said, I agree that LW1 is very mature and was right to listen to his dad. Good for you.
Comment: #37
Posted by: LibraryKat
Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:36 PM
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Re: Zoe
Now what is this?
Comment: #38
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:12 PM
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Personally, I think 15 year old girls have way too much power on their hands. There are plenty of girls that age whose behavior I've seen, and what's been told to me by adult women who acted that way at 15, that know exactly what they want sexually and know exactly how to be seductive to older men and making themselves really hard to resist, no matter what the age of consent laws are.
The problem, of course, is that most relationships don't work out for long-term (whether adult or teen), and such a girl can use the threat of crying statutory rape to keep a man with her if he gives in to her devilish temptations. And worse, that threat doesn't go away when she turns 18...she can still bring those charges against him later.
It's really this drama and mess that an 18 year old guy doesn't want any part of, and he did absolutely right by listening to his dad and choosing to keep his distance.
I hope they can reconnect in 3 more years when she finally becomes legal.
Comment: #39
Posted by: Paul W
Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:10 AM
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This in response to "Grandmother". This could have been written by me except instead of the Granddaughter it would be my 22 year old daughter. I have confronted my daughter many times and written letters to her. It has gone nowhere. I have choosen to not have contact with her. I hope in time she will see the light.
Comment: #40
Posted by: Tammy Walsh
Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:23 AM
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