Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1 - I hope the Annies read this and noted that not every bully shapes up once the victim tells them how bad the bullying made them feel. Letters like this have their funny aspects. LW & hubby told his stepmother that she ruined his life and was a horrible abusive person, & dad & stepmom took offense & threw them out. Now LW wonders why dad & evil stepmom are punishing them for just 'saying how they felt'. Can anyone be that naive? What makes the LW think these people had any interest in how Andrew felt? or were waiting for the LW & Andrew to tell them how awful they are? As for what Andrew & LW should do next - I don't think that counseling helps people who aren't willing to acknowledge that they are at fault in any way. There seems to be a lot of denial to go around in this situation. Step mom blames a child for her bad actions. Dad is backing step mom. LW is playing her position as Andrew's wife. She isn't willing to say that telling the step mom off was a bad choice because it wasn't very diplomatic or very effective. As for Andrew, it might be true that the child Andrew did what he did out of fear, but the adult Andrew needs to acknowledge that whatever his reasons, he was responsible for his bad choices. Until at least 1 of these people is willing to take some blame, they might just as well go to their separate corners for awhile and not see the other couple.

LW1: Time to let all ties go. His father is being bullied and has no chance to change until is wife is either dead or divorced and moved on. Roll the dice on that one.
Get yourself some family counseling--your children, yourself and husband. Begin to make a new family unit that he grew up not knowing. Start with your church for recommendations if they do not have something already set up. Don't go after his relatives. They would have stepped in years ago if they wanted to. The same with his father. Time to find an alternative parent figure out there who is waiting for a family like yours to come into their lives. Your church can help with that as well. You can't keep asking to be beaten again and again by trying to stay connected.
Good luck.
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LW2: You don't say how long this has been going on but give it a deadline for packing him up and moving him out of the house--maybe the local nursing home--on the taxpayers time, check with social services.

You can bet they will find him some specialists and therapists to get him up an doing. You can't do this on your own and should not have to. Forget the embarrassment for him, as you are quickly dying a fast death. You cannot turn around someone's behavior unless they want to. Ask a judge why there are repeat offenders back in jail all the time. They have to want to move on, getting better, be remorseful. Pick your choice of words. You don't need a death sentence just cause your husband's mode of life is slow suicide.

LW1:
"It says in the Bible to "honor thy mother and father," but we are struggling with this."
*Sigh* Yet another case of quote mining the Bible to justify abuse. The full command was "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you." It was part of a covenant between God and Israel. One could have fun asking the father and step-mom if their son can expect to inherit any property from them! There is at least one Biblical override of this commandment, when Gideon was ordered to destroy the Baal idol and Asherah pole in his father's house and sacrifice one of his father's bulls to the Lord, using the Asherah pole as fuel. (Vandalism, theft, and religious insult)
In regards to New Testament law, a reciprocal relationship was established by the apostle Paul. Children were to obey their parents, and parents were not to provoke their children, as stated in Ephesians and Colossians. The step-mother's comments have certainly violated her responsibilities, and the father has abandoned his own duty as head of the household by not protecting his son and not controlling his wife.
"I believe in forgiveness, but does that mean we pretend like nothing happened?"
No. Forgiveness was commanded as a natural forwarding of God's forgiveness of man. It did not mean accepting evil behavior. Matthew 18:15-17 allowed the shunning of church members who hurt others and refused to mend their ways. In extreme cases, the early churches were ordered to expel members that repeatedly violated moral law.
"Why is Andrew being punished for expressing how he feels?"
Because shoot the messenger, that's why. (Too many Biblical references to count.)
If the LW remains concerned about Biblical obedience, I would encourage her to focus her energies on her husband and any children they have. She has risen to the occasion already, let her continue to do so.

LW1: The stepmother is a self-centered person who probably resented Andrew from the beginning. She's not interested in how anyone else feels. You can respect and forgive her without condoning her behavior--forgiveness is your choice to give up your own resentment. I learned from dealing with difiicult in-laws to say what I thought (as objectively as possible) and shut up and back away. off .Praying for the person's deliverance from evil helps too--several relationships that had been pretty stressful were eventually improved and the people involved came around on their own. Worked much better than arguing. Took years, but worth it.

File for a separation, throw him out, sell the house and take half the money, move into an apartment or a smaller home, and let him pay child support. Without a job, he won't get custody of the kids. If he fails to pay child support, he goes to jail.
However, if the home belongs to him or kicking him out is not an option, let things stand as they are, but DON'T GIVE HIM ANY MONEY!!!!!! Put your paycheck into a bank account, spend the money feeding your kids, and cancel the cable TV. Without you paying for it, there won't be any. Let's see how he reacts to not having the TV! As for the booze, let him pay for that himself.

LW1-
This has nothing to do with him. It has to do with their own deficiencies as people - and parents. Andrew is being "punished for expressing how he feels" because they don't give a damn how he feels, they just demand that he be the resident scratching post.

Ill-fitting shoes make you bloodier the more you wear them. Similarly, abusive relationships hurt more and more the closer you get. Simple solution? Throw out the bad shoes and cut off the abusive people. Simple, but not necessarily easy, especially when you love.

Honour thy mother? This woman is not his mother. She would have been commended had she stepped up to the plate at being a substitute mother, but she didn't. Hello, male Cinderella. There is no honour due here.

"I believe in forgiveness, but does that mean we pretend like nothing happened?"
NO. It does NOT. What forgiveness means is that you let it go and accept that nothing will ever change, so that it doesn't eat you from the inside like a cancerous cell. If your husband gets something positive out of being in contact with these people and the contact is still possible, it's up to him to decide what he wants, needs, can tolerate. Which is not cast in concrete and may change as time goes by. What YOU do is shore him up, support and love him.

P.S.: Annies? You blew it - AGAIN. People like this woman are not interested in therapy because they're always right. And people like her don't respond well to diplomacy, for them it's only a way to gain time so they get more abuse in. They were "harsh" way before the "response", so what's this got to do with it? Blame the victim, why don't you. Puke, puke, puke, yrrrch.

LW2-
Since you seem quite ready to get out, contact your local women's shelter or women's centre. They will be able to direct you to resources that may allow you to "afford" to leave. You don't state how many children you have, whether you're working outside the home and what kind of money you are able to make. You may need training or retraining and a few other things. You need outside help to figure out these things.

P.S.: If you're a Roman Catholic, DON'T go to your clergyman. He will advise you to stay no matter what. Other denominations will be more helpful.

LW3-
But there isn't - unfortunately for the likes of you, for whom nothing works to rekindle the flame of desire. You only have two options - either you go along and possibly fake it to make him happy (not necessarily a bad thing), or you allow him to get his satisfaction elsewhere - possibly a very bad thing.

Unless he demands to swing from the rafters 10 times a week and you REALLY don't want a divorce, I suggest the former. If you value your marriage, try to negotiate a workable compromise.

Oh Annies! What is wrong with you?! LW1 should not go to counselling, except to get some self esteem and cut that witch and his father who enabled her to be so out of his life! People like that who can be cruel to a child are emotionally devoid and unable to change. Stop wasting time wishing they were normal. They will simply manipulate the counsellor, and often the counsellor won't see it because the abused starts playing along with it as they've been conditioned to do their whole lives.

I haven't spoken to MY stepmonster in 22 years now. It's AWESOME! My brother sadly is where Andrew is now and beginning the process of detanglement. I am certainly glad his very Christian wife recognizes this treatment by our mother (she adopted me *spit*) may deserve forgiveness but it does NOT deserve reconciliation and they are NOT the same thing!

Oh Arizona... I feel for you. Putting on a sexy nighty doesn't make WOMEN feel like having sex, it makes men think women feel like having sex :-/. Personally I am all up for sex even in jogging pants! :-D But there was a time I was not, and that was because I was not being satisfied in that way. I suspect you aren't either. Nature doesn't pull a plug, that is an absolute lie. If you had a caring attentive partner (let's be blunt: who was getting you off) you'd be interested. Don't blame it on nature.

Forgiveness does not mean setting yourself up to get run over again by the same truck. It is about freeing oneself from the past, not about repeating it. It does not put a stamp of approval upon the bad behavior being forgiven. When a creditor waives a debt, it does not mean that history has been changed and the debtor never did borrow from, and then stiff, the creditor; it means that the creditor is no longer willing to invest resources in the attempt to collect.

That you MOVED closer to this source of toxicity in order to "patch things up" without having first obtained the slightest indication that this would work tells me that your husband is still obsessed with getting his childhood "right". I'm sorry: He CAN'T HAVE THAT. He does not own a time machine, and therefore he cannot travel into the past and knock on the door of his childhood home and pretend to be Child Protective Services.

Please help him to see that by continuing to invest in getting something out of this woman, and out of his feckless father, he is only continuing to hand her power over him. He needs pro help to get the toxins washed out of his system; please encourage him to get that help. He needs to be devoting his energies to the hopeful future, in the form of his children, rather than to the irreparable past, in the form of his narcissistic parents.

lw1- To honor someone means to show the person great respect. You can show someone respect without being a door mat for abuse. You can draw a thick line and tell the person (respectfully) how you feel while still honoring the individual. Giving respect does not mean following every order the person spews from the mouth. Giving honor means showing kindness, being respectful, and giving forgiveness/ mercy. You can also be forgiving, merciful, and kind while drawing boundaries. It is all in how you present the boundaries.

They kicked you out the family, not the other way around. If the thought of breaking the Commandment makes your stomach churn, then practice distancing yourself and drawing boundaries. Telling them how much they hurt the both of you is a good start. They reacted with vile, not you. Now keep the boundary of demanding to be treated with kindness. If you are ever (for whatever reason) at the inlaws house and they start treating you badly, then politely excuse yourself and leave, while telling them in a polite manner why you are leaving. This is not dishonoring them, it is drawing boundaries. You can practice the same routine on the phone with them. Limit your contact with them to what you can handle.

While you are presently disowned from the family, you can honor your inlaws by sending them holiday cards and you can enclose a gift if you wish. This also puts the ball in their court to contact you by phone or in person if they so wish. You do not have to contact them beyond holiday cards if you do not want to because this displays your honor to them, as well as not speaking ill of them/ to them.

To answer your question, no, it does not mean you pretend nothing happened. Forgiveness does not mean allowing someone to repeatedly abuse you. It means to not resent someone for wronging you, but you can draw boundaries and still forgive someone. This being said, keep your boundaries drawn!

lw2- Is he being treated for his illnesses? If not, then perhaps an intervention will help convince him to get treated. If he is threatening to hurt himself or others (from his depression and alcoholism), then you can have him committed to a mental institution for treatment where he can get help for his problems. If none of these work or help, then you will need to put your foot down and have a talk with your husband. Make receiving treatment for his illnesses and getting a job a condition of you staying in the marriage. If you decide to leave, then go to a woman's shelter. Best wishes to you cause it sounds like you will need it.

lw3- I know I'll be flamed for this, but this woman came of as a bit selfish to me. "Why should it be me?" Flip it around as well. Why should it be your husband? You are both suffering in this. You feel forced into doing something you do not want to, while your husband feels deprived of love and intimacy. Physical deprivation of intimacy can leave a person feeling cold and empty. Don't resent your husband for wanting something which is so natural to want in a marriage- physical intimacy. I am not saying the lw should submit to her husband and have sex, just saying she came off as sounding selfish by saying her husband should be deprived instead of herself.

There are other kinky things people can do besides sex. If it is uncomfortable for her now, then maybe her husband would be willing to forgo sex if she can climax him by some other means. This may very well be more fulfilling for both of them than the husband having sex with someone who is clearly not into it (kind of like making love to a doll in this scenario).

Re: wkh,

This actually works for me. Lingerie makes me feel sexy and gets me in the mood. I like modeling it for my husband and stuff. When I am not really in the mood and my husband wants to, telling him to let me put something on first and then putting on something kinky usually gets me in the mood. I guess everyone is different in that respect, cause I didn't realize others could wear lingerie and not feel sexy.

P.S., Wkh is right: Nevernevernever go into counseling WITH a narcissist you're having issues with; unless you have a guarantee that the therapist is telepathic. Wearing masks and fooling people is what narcissists DO.

LW3, I suggest you divorce your husband and find yourself a eunich. No sex organs, no sex drive... think how happy you'll be. You can live in contentment and be happily deprived of the nuisance or slightest expectation of physical intimacy and closeness.
Okay, I'm being a wee bit sarcastic. But not about this: I hope you will divorce your husband. It's clear that you're different types, and are incompatible. He likes sex. You don't. You're sick of the situation and don't want to change. I'm sure he's equally sick of it. Why keep up a pretense? Sometimes it's better NOT to keep a marriage, or the pretense of one, alive. Tell him what you told the Annies, file for divorce, and let him go look for someone compatible. And you can too.

LW3: Perhaps you've already read them, but may I recommend the books of Dr. Christiane Northrup?

LW1/Michelle -
I second the "sigh". Of course you don't have to honor your mother and father if they're abusive. Or are criminals. Or ask you to do something against the law, etc.
Oy, again with trying to live by the bible, yet do what is actually morally right. I hope you also have never had any images of your God (commandment 2) or have ever done a lick of work on Sunday (commandment 4). Then make sure you follow the non-10-commandment laws as well, like Deut. 22:5, Num. 28:3, Lev. 25:46 etc. etc. Or scour the bible to find loopholes, like Michelle. Just live an actual moral life.

LW1 - Are you serious, Annies?? Andrew was completly justified for telling his step-mother off. How come it wasn't "right" for Andrew to tell his step-mother "unpleasent truths" about herself but it was okay for her to emotionally abuse him for much of his life and even tell him that his father wasn't really his father? If he goes to his parents and tells them that he loves them, he might as well put a big stamp on his forehead that says, "Doormat." His step-mother will only step up the abuse after that! Andrew should go to counseling ALONE to work through issues of his past but he should NOT apologize to his step-monster and should completly write her off.

LW2 - Amen, Roger!

~Michelle (Not the same as in #3)

LW1--"Last year, we decided to move closer to the family to help patch things up, but things did not go as planned." No duh! Anyone who tells a misbehaving step-child that they couldn't possibly be the offspring of their biological parent because "they look nothing alike" is cruel, heartless and has more than a few screws loose. Why would you think after all these years you could patch things up with this toxic nut job? And why would the Annies think counseling or 'Andrew' telling MIL that "he loves them and wants to repair the rift" would help? They really blew it. Here's my advice. Consider being kicked out of the family a huge favor. Put away your Bible sweetie; your MIL doesn't deserve your honor or respect. She deserves to be cut out like the all consuming cancer that she is. Feel free to forgive her if you must but do so in absentia. I recommend you and your husband celebrate his exile from the family and move on with your lives.

LW2--I hate to break the news to you but your husband is a lazy bum. He's also a blow-hard and a class A jerk. He won't look for work because he waltzes into job interviews and acts like a know-it-all. When he fails to land the job or is soundly put in his place, it bruises his fragile ego. Moreover, your husband is using his myriad health issues as an excuse to continue leeching off you while playing the poor victim. Trust me, I'm well acquainted with the type. At home, he's the King of his own little world and treats you and the children like his subjects. No amount of counseling will help because I'll go out on a limb and suggest that your husband doesn't believe he has a problem; he's far too superior for that. He'll turn things around so as to make you and the children believe you're the ones with the problem. My advice to you is to get out ASAP. Go talk to a divorce lawyer (you can get low cost or free counseling from legal aid) about your options and then make plans to kick your husband to the curb with the rest of the garbage. You'll feel the weight of the world lifted off your shoulders the minute you're rid of this tick.

Wow, LW3 is just so sad. I thought she was going to say, "why can't they make a pill to make women more interested?" and instead she says, "why can't they make a pill to make men less interested?" And the Annies response is even sadder. Why would you want your husband to take a pill to make him less interested in YOU? If 20 minutes twice a week is really too much effort for you to give someone you love, honor and cherish, why not cut the guy loose and get yourself a cat? (Neutered, of course.) Maybe they should also make a pill to stop women from wanting to hear they words "I love you" and to want affection. It's the same thing.

Best comments ever.

The only thing that could make today's column better would be if Matt would return and post a few comments.

LW3:
There are a lot of things you can do to reduce his sex drive and many women know this:
-Gain 100 pounds.
-Nag constantly so he just wants to get away from you.
-Start hobbies that can only be done at night (or whenever he has time for sex).
-Spend all his money so he had to work two jobs to pay for your spending.
-Talk about how great your past boyfriends/husbands were in bed.
-Explain that sex is over and if he doesn't like it, then he will see the kids once a month, lose the house, and send you cheques for the rest of his life. (This is the most common method.)

@ Ben

Brilliant!!! Have you considered starting your own column?

Re LW1 - My mother abused me for years (she never should have had children, she was a narcissist and everything was always about her) and my dad stood by and watched her do it. Eventually, at the age of 40, I wised up, moved out of state and told my mother I didn't want to be a part of the family anymore, she could have her perfect son, his perfect wife, and their perfect kids and forget I was even born. I tried to make things right with her twice, but the only way that would have happened was if I had gotten down on my knees and told her I was sorry for saying she abused me, that I was a worthless piece of shit who deserved everything she ever did to me. So NOT happening, it took me ten years of therapy and antidepressants to even begin to get over the damage she did to me. She died 2 years ago and my first thought when my niece called to tell me? "Ding dong the wicked bitch is dead." So in 16 years, I talked to her twice, and both times were not good, which just reinforced for me that my decision to leave the family was a good one. I went back for her memorial service (she was cremated) to support my dad, and my sister-in-law and niece said they were happy to see me and supposedly welcomed me back into the family. Yeah, right, so not happening. The first time I said something they didn't like, I was persona non grata again. So I've decided that DNA/blood doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to family and I can live without them and their drama.
Family is what you make it, and if your birth family isn't supportive and loving, then when you get out on your own and marry, you make your own family. I have my husband, his family, my son and his family, and that works for me. These are the people that love and support me and accept me for who I am. That's what matters in the long run.

First of all, the Ten Commandments, etc., was between God and the nation of Israel only, not all mankind. (Although knowing this part of the Bible shows us how God thinks and feels about things.)

Second, Jesus' death fulfilled all those laws so they're not in force anyway. But the laws and guidelines in Jesus' teachings are very similar, and go farther. So it is still honor your parents, but don't exasperate your children, as someone pointed out, and let not a rotten or vile thing proceed out of your mouth. As well as moral guidelines.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to live by the Bible, so it would be nice if those certain ones of you that spoke ill of it would just let others use their free will just like you use yours.

And if you want to criticize the Bible, at least really read it and understand it, which takes more than reading a few verses here and there and just getting mad at it. The way the Bible is written really distinguishes those who just want to criticize and those who really want to know.

@Jar8818 - to borrow from Lise: Clap, clap, clap, clap!

YAAAH! Khlovia is back! Loved the metaphors, btw - everyone is pretty much batting a thousand today. But LW1's question floored me: "WHy is Andrew being punished for expressing how he feels?" Where to begin. Okay, try this. Bang your head real hard against a concrete floor a few times. You know it's concrete. You know it's not going to give. You know if anything gets hurt it's going to be you. But you do it anyway. See how easy? But really - that question is like saying "Why can't I honestly tell people exactly what I think of them without them getting all mad?" Welcome to the real world.

So let me get this straight: LW2 is in debt because her husband is umemployed but she can't afford to leave? Sounds like a martyr to me. Sweetheart, he's already not working so how can you not afford to leave? If you bolt and he doesn't pay child support he'll end up in jail. You are making excuses and need to ask yourself why. True you dislike living as you do but some people are afraid of change and would rather be miserable and live as they do then face the unknown. Go talk to someone about why you can't face change, then talk to an attorney.

Re: Jane,

I also thought she was going to say, "Why can't they make a pill to make women more interested?" It was surprising how little she seemed to care about her husband.

Re: Maria

Bitey Fish should go nip her toes, perhaps thenm she won't be such a cold fish!

LW1 - This is gonna be a long one so anyone BTL, feel free to skip over it... I just feel it's worth the extra thought on it because there are so many misleading beliefs about honoring parents and the subject of forgiveness.

A couple things I've learned in researching the "Honor thy mother and father" commandment (BTW, I learned a lot from others today on this as well, so thank you!):

- The *parents* break the child's obligation to follow this commandment the second they expect the child to do something immoral or illegal. Being abusive and expecting a child to tolerate abuse definitely qualifies.

- From what I understand, according to Jewish tradition, honoring one's parents means to live in a way that does not bring them shame within a healthy and loving context - I think many of us know how an abusive parent will find *any* reason to be "ashamed" of their child as a way to guilt. So if you're not out there doing heinous things, then you're technically honoring your parents.

Andrew's step-mother and father's behaviors are appalling. Okay, so Andrew *might* have been bratty as a kid... but how on earth does what he did as a minor excuse his stepmother's abuse in a former position of authority and caretaking over him?! She's an adult, she knows right from wrong apparently, therefore she's accountable for her behavior!

As for forgiveness, Lise put it best. It's accepting that nothing will change. My pastor calls it a process of letting go. It's using healing as a tool, and recognizing that healing must come first sometimes before you can forgive. It is not, however, the same as reconciling. You can forgive someone and have nothing to do with them again, in fact sometimes it's necessary.

Also, you do not have to forgive if someone is unrepentant (see Luke 17:3-4 for starters). Repentance isn't saying "I'm sorry" and then continuing the same bad behavior - anyone can say "sorry." Repentance means to change one's mind, which leads to changing one's behaviors. Repentance is meaning it and making amends... if someone doesn't follow through, then they haven't earned forgiveness.

There are a lot of Scripture passages that make it clear don't have to and shouldn't associate with someone who is toxic, because to do so wears you down spiritually. The Bible calls us to forgive as God forgives... God doesn't forgive someone who remains evil and unrepentant. Can you really see God going oh, that's okay, and then continue to put up with someone still being harmful?

BTW, if you can't forgive, you can always turn it over to God and let Him take it off your hands so you and Andrew can focus on healing together from this mess. You can't force something that isn't there and that doesn't make you a bad person.

A friend of mine has a website, luke173ministries.org, where she lists verses that reinforce all of this. Her articles may also help you feel more supported and validated about having stood up for your husband against his stepmother and father. I say brava to you on that!

Oh and for the love of all that is good, please ignore the Annies' advice to go to counseling with Andrew's father and stepmother. Abusers like your stepmother know how to turn on the crocodile tears and pull for a therapist's sympathy, which leads to wasted time and money in a counselor's office - been there and done that one too many times. IMHO you'd be better off allowing the estrangement to remain and just move on with your husband to create new traditions and happiness in your own home unless and until your in-laws decide to grow up.

LW2 - One of the Van Buren sisters used to ask writers in your situation to consider whether you'd be better off with or without him. I wonder if you feel stuck because you're scared of the alternatives to staying.

Please take a look at how this is affecting your kids - they need a Dad who's functioning and able to provide for them. Your husband needs a swift kick and to hit rock bottom before he recognizes that he's screwing up to the point of no return. I'm sad to say that it looks like your brooming him to the curb may be the most beneficial option for everyone involved.

LW3 - What Jane said.

BTW, what do you call crotchless sweatpants? Rocky Mountain lingerie :-)

LW3 - divorce your husband so he can go and meet someone who wants to have sex. Then you can go on the internet and go to one of those dating sites for asexual people...men and women who want relationships but not sex. Yes, believe it or not, these actually do exist.

Today I am very impressed by what many have to say to LW1, and there isn't a whole lot to add. Still, have to say something because I get this situation - hits way too close to home.
My sister and I have had this "honor your mother and father" argument many times because my father has essentially left our lives (he reappears just often enough to pull the scab off the wound and has done this since we were young teenagers. Funny how it continues to hurt) in order to placate his witch of a wife. She's one good Christian woman, she is!
My sister feels that she/we have to extend ourselves, send birthday cards, etc because we are to honor our parents. I say hell no. You want to honor him? Then honor his wishes and leave him alone! Honor him by treating him cordially and respectfully when you run into him at the local Costco, while his witch pretends you don't exist. The Bible doesn't say LOVE your parents, but honor. What is honor? Treating someone with respect, in my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
And forgiveness? You give that for yourself, but it does not mean forgetting how you have been treated; it does not mean not taking care of yourself so you can be hurt in exactly the same way again and again.
Foolish LW - get yourself and your husband out of their way. The stepmother made clear her position years ago, and the father has chosen this woman over his son. It hurts, oh I know it does. But you can't change that. But you can stop bludgeoning yourselves by trying to change a situation that is completely out of your control. As someone else said previously, you are doing nothing but beating your head against concrete...and then you wonder why you are still in pain.
and note that this is coming from someone who regularly states that you do not cut off family except in extreme cases. Well, here you don't have to make that choice - YOU have been cut off. Just accept that was their choice and allow it to stick so your husband can start healing.

LW1 - The Bible says a lot of things that don't make sense. Don't put up with this crap just because of 5 words taken out of context. Get away and don't look back. Forgive them for being the tiny people they are and move on.


LW2 - You can't afford to leave him? Honey, you can't afford to keep him. Leave. Yesterday. Then get him for child support. He'll end up employed or in jail.


LW3 - Rather than spending your money on a pill to put you husband on even footing get him some porn or buy him a hooker. Sorry if nature pulled your plug but that doesn't mean you get to pull everyone else's.

LW3: I'm sorry if you are reading BTL, mostly by commenters that did not read your entire letter. You state that making love with your husband was once exciting, but now uncomfortable (aka – painful) and unwanted (pain is never an enjoyable experience). You have tried various cures and *submitted* in the name of keeping a happy marriage.

You do not state how your husband has reacted to this situation. I surmise (since you don't mention a threat of divorce), your husband is understanding and loving, and doesn't want to cause you pain for his enjoyment. I get the feeling you wish life could be different, but after so much of the *trying harder*, acceptance is all that is left to the both of you.

I want you to hear this, and hear it well: I have been married for over two decades to a wonderful man. I have MS, and unfortunately these last few months an exacerbation occurred mostly affecting my legs. The pain has been unbearable. Sex (which I love) became so painful I would bite my lips to keep from screaming out, silent tears cascaded down my cheeks. My husband, when he looked at my face, abruptly stopped and held me while we both cried. We haven't tried since, although I have mentioned we could try another position. He said that “Love shouldn't hurt”. We are soul-mates, when one person has a problem, we both share that problem.

You state “One of us is going to be *deprived*; why should it be me?” Indeed, life hands us these challenges in life. But, it is not just you, life handed both of you this unfortunate situation. In marriage you have been joined together, and let no man (or thoughtless BTL commenters) tear it apart.

Jenna:

I very much appreciate your perspective on LW3, very understanding and insightful.

Rick:

The Bible makes a lot of sense if one takes the time to understand it, and the thinking and customs of the time. I do that and it works.

Bitey:

From yesterday: oops! Sorry about the fish oil comment! No pirahna oil in sight around here!

Sharnee:

Glad your son is so much better.

Re: Jenna

I'm sorry you're going through that. Thank you for sharing your story and for teaching all of us that painful sex is not necessarily because of a lack of lubrication. Indeed there are other kinds of pain that can make that kind of exercise unbearable, and those of us who enjoy a relatively painfree life have no idea. I learned something today.

And, if the LW is similarly afflicted, I am sorry if whatever I may have said could have been construed as insensitive .

Re: jar8818 ~~ Bitey Fish is happy that Sharnee is not feeding piranha oil to her children. (If she did, they would develop aggressive behavior and be sent home from school for trying to eat the other children.)

I'm in a bit if a snarky mood today so my advice to LW#2 might be a bit harsh, but here goes.

1) Have him buy a good amount of life insurance, enough to ensure that you and the kids are well provided for (and you have to make sure he is the one to set it up, without your involvement)
2) wait about six to nine months
3)buy him a case of bear every day and make sure you add about 1/2 a cup of sugar to each one.
4) claim the life insurance after the diabetic coma finishes him off.

If thats to extreme for your taste then make an appointment with a divorce attorney and find out just what your options are.

Wow...BTL was spot-on today. Bravo folks!

For lw3, I used to feel the same way. I asked my GYN what could I do. She put me on a regimen of Premarin vaginal cream. If you use it exactly as they tell you to, you will soon feel better when having sex. It helps to make you more moist and its less painful! My husband was very supportive during this whole process. Maybe if your husband is a rational person, and you explain to him that when you are thru with the initial regimen, that sex will get better for both of you! Hope this helps.

LW1: Live well, don't speak badly of his parents and spend as little time with them as possible. Honoring someone doesn't mean putting yourself in positions where you will be m istreated.

Andrew's father decided a long time ago that he was going to appease his wife at the expense of his son's emotional well-being. Sadly, a great many parents do this when they remarry and it affects their relationship with their children permanently.

Andrew has done his best but his stepmother is not going to accept him and his father is not going to stand up for him. Any honoring you feel you need to do must be done from a distance.

LW2
It doesn't sound as if your husband is willing to make an effort to improve either himself or your marriage. Lay down the duckboards, and make your way out of this mire. Start with counseling AND a visit to a divorce specialist so that you know the best way to protect your children.
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I believe people who are guilty parent themselves always go soft when it comes to emotionally abusive parents. Annies are you one of them, that's why you ask "He should say that he loves them and wants to repair this rift."? It hit you right in the bulls-eyes didn't it? That's why you are unable to offer solid victim-protective strategy as many (thank God) commentators have?
I have a Jezebel "mum" who is not only emotionally abusive but spiritually abusive as well...and it almost coz me to enter into Satanism (becoz i was so let down with God i want to rebel) + suicide , becoz of half-baked idiots like you. Offering detrimental advise. I have now totally sever my ties with her and of course she would not have it!! She still holds grudges, tantrums, praying in tongues in anger and resentment , asking God for judgment, playing victim, etc. I basically just tell her . I did not say it in word for word, but basically in essence I told her 'she is on her way to hell for causing the little ones (i was a young christian at that time) to believe in all her Joyce Meyer + co teaching...which she still does though in a less pronounce way), unrepentant , arrogant ( becoz i kept forgiving her without her doing any of her part and try to reconcile by biting my teeth, disillusioning myself, lying to myself about honor my mother..and end up a spiritual mess (that's where I was mulling the thought of a hypocrite god and want to be a Satanist to get back at Him). So idiots like you should shut your pie hole..else you never know some emotionally + spiritually truth seeker which is still baby in faith might just stumble away becoz of your imbecile advice.