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ANNIE'S MAILBOX(R)
Dear Annie: I have two children who attend public school in California. We were relatively happy with our children's education until our oldest started fifth grade. We had heard rumors for many years that one particular fifth-grade teacher was absolutely awful, and of course, our son got her. This woman is mean and degrading and belittles the children on a daily basis. What's worse, she seems to get pleasure from her horrible treatment of these poor kids.
We have talked to the principal. We're not the first ones who have done so. We have been told on numerous occasions that we need to talk to the teacher to try to fix this problem, and short of this, there is nothing that can be done.
Our son is on a waiting list to be moved out of the class, but that doesn't solve the problem. It is very apparent that the teacher is protected against any ramifications of her terrible behavior. But who looks out for the kids?
I have searched for some type of advocacy group that would help support the children who are tormented each day and have come up empty. How do we take a stand against the public school system and the unions that protect the teachers? — Frustrated
Dear Frustrated: Did you take the principal's advice and speak to the teacher? You'd be surprised how many times these issues can be defused by respectfully asking the teacher how you can help your child do better in her class. It's wonderful that you are a forceful advocate for your child. Every parent should be. However, until your son can be transferred, we urge you to use this opportunity to explain that he will encounter difficult people in life, including teachers, and it will help to learn the coping skills necessary to deal with them.
Dear Annie: After 20 years of marriage, my wife and I separated, with the plan that I would undergo therapy to discover why I had become disconnected from her over the past few years. We agreed that after eight months or so, we would attend joint counseling sessions to see what had changed.
After six months, I discovered she had had sex with a man and then later with a woman. She stated, "We're separated, so I feel free to date and do not regret it." I consider this adultery. What do you think? — Husband of a Sudden Bisexual
Dear Husband: A married person who has sex outside the marriage has committed adultery. However, a legal separation, as opposed to an informal parting, often gives spouses tacit permission to date others. We assume this was not the case here. But you have a bigger problem. If your wife is bisexual, your marriage may not be reconcilable. If she isn't already in counseling, you should make it a condition of your continued efforts to save the relationship. Provided, of course, you still want to.
Dear Annie: I read the letter from "Bad Roomies," who offered to let a jobless couple move in with them and, after three months, the situation became untenable. The couple even started going through "Roomies'" personal things. Your answer to kick them out could subject the homeowners to a lawsuit.
In Illinois, even if there is no formal rental agreement, the owners cannot toss the couple into the street. They need to go to court and get an order of eviction and have the sheriff's office come and remove the couple. This protects "Roomies" from a lawsuit and also from any potential violence that may occur during the eviction. Please let them know. — Illinois Lawyer
Dear Lawyer: Thank you for clarifying this. Although it depends on the state in which they live, in most cases, getting this annoying couple out of their home requires a court order. It is unfortunate that in our litigious society, no good deed goes unpunished.
Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please e-mail your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, P.O. Box 118190, Chicago, IL 60611. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox, and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
COPYRIGHT 2009 CREATORS.COM
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21 Comments | Post Comment
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So, I don't understand why the woman being bisexual would keep them from getting the marriage together. If you decide to live monogamously together then you have chosen not to have sex with other people that you might be attracted to. A heterosexual woman (or man) may find themselves attracted to other people, but they don't pursue that attraction. If she is bisexual she is attracted to men and to women. He's a man. She's decide to marry him, ergo no sex with other men or women. If she was a lesbian then should wouldn't be attracted to him, so that is a problem, but not if she's bisexual.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Connie Tyler
Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:25 PM
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I agree that kids need to get used to difficult people, but a 5th grader shouldn't be left at the mercy of a teacher like this. Adults can leave, but a 5th grader can't. I'm a teacher myself and I remember having teachers who shouldn't have been in the classroom. I think I'd threaten to pull the kid out of school altogether if the principal doesn't do something, but he's probably afraid of her, too. Talking to her may not do any good, because she's going to be sure that she's right. I'd love to be able to go back to the 2nd grade teacher at my elementary school and tell her what a horrible person she was for being so mean to the kids. I was terrified of her and I didn't even have her. Pity, she's dead.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:51 PM
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Dear Annie,
My brother was a sweet little boy. He did not cause trouble as a little one and my parents would have responded to any request for help that any teacher made. In third grade he began having a difficult time and he began to not want to go to school. He told my mom that his teacher did not like him. When things did not improve over time mom went to see the teacher. I do not remember any of the details of the conflict but I remember that, in her frustration that the conversation did not seem to be going anywhere constructive, she sighed and blurted out, "Don't you like little boys Mrs. Libby?" The response, forever burned in my brain, was " No, not particularly." Mrs. Libby was old and tenured and stayed many more years to torture little boys she did not particularly like. I believe my brothers school challenges started there because first and second grade went well.
No child should be made to feel unworthy. They are all different and they all learn differently and they learn and comprehend on different schedules. No cookie cutter education will change that. That is one of the great challenges in education and always has been. Good creative teaching is an art form that is beautiful to behold a one of lifes greatest gifts to children. Teacher who do not like children have NO place in the lower grades for certain, but neither do they belong with the upper grades which are,also, ages that have fragilities requiring teachers with great mastery of their craft.
If I had this issue in this day and age, I would first gather all the parents with a school representative as an cbserving guest( superintendentent perhaps?). No behind closed doors, no he said she said. I would invite people to share their children's experiences and make sure this does not become slanderous on any level. Just gather the stories, which may be very different from your childs. Your goal should be to gain a happier classroom for all the children. If the experiences your child has had are the same as others, then set up a parent observation team or perhaps a classroom helper team of people available (capable grand parents). It is hard with double working families, but I suspect if enough stories are similar people who truly want change can find a way to be part of this. It might be as simple as the teacher is overwhelmed and needs an extra pair of hands for some of the time and their is no money in the budget for it. The politics and paper work of the educational classroom in today's world are horrendous and often leave little time for the work good teachers want to do. If you care about all of the children, then choose to care about the teacher at the outset and perhaps that caring can spark her future in the classroom.
Sincerely,
CADR
Comment: #3
Posted by: Cathy Raymond
Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:26 AM
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"If your wife is bisexual, your marriage may not be reconcilable." I'd like to echo Connie Tyler above. The two authors of this column are engaging in stereotyping. Bisexuals (both male and female) are capable of monogamy. While I do agree that therapy is necessary for this couple, I don't believe that the fact that one of the two people the wife slept with was a woman makes much, if any, difference in that need. I would feel the same whether she'd slept with two men or two women.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Lyssiej
Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:57 AM
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Re: Cathy Raymond
I had to respond to the mother whose child was in the class of a terrible teacher in the public school system in her community. It has been many years since I had to deal with this problem (nothing has changed in the schools in over 25 years. My son was hyperactive and on medication in 5th grade. He was placed in a classroom with a elderly teacher who often left the class unattended for long periods of time (not a good idea for a hyperactive child). My husband and I talked to the Superintendent and met with the principal of the school to request my son be removed from the classroom because of his hyperactivity that it was not good to leave the class unsupervised.
They denied our request by saying they had lots of requests to remove other children from the class and could not do so. So I called all the surrounding towns to find an opening for him in a fifth grade classroom in other communities. I found a wonderful school and teacher for him in another community and the teachers greeted me at the door to tell me that I did the right thing for my son. I had to pay a small tuition and I had to transport him every day but it was well worth the effort. He had a wonderful fifth grade experience and did exceptionally well with a great teacher. The following year the local school called me to request I return him to the local school and they would work with him and give him any help he needed. (they were embarrassed that I had removed him from the system. (they also retired the elderly teacher that was a problem to all the kids) We agreed and he finished school in his local school with his friends. It turned out well for my son. I encourage that mother to stand up and be counted and do what is best for her child. This is so important for the child and his self esteem.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Judy Stocks
Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:47 AM
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Regarding the parent whose son's fifth grade teacher is abusive: I agree with the other people who have commented, the Annie's response is _way_ off the mark. I, too, had a horrible fifth grade teacher who was still in the classroom despite a long history of complaints and a lot of parents yanking their kids out of the class. I suggest getting some of the other parents together to confront the principal and tell him to either step up or they will go over his head. Go to the school board and the newspapers if you have to. There is no excuse for allowing a teacher to abuse students, especially elementary students who have to spend all day with her.
The really sad thing is that this teacher might have the potential to be a decent teacher if someone would help her address her issues. The principal, by not confronting her, is not only hurting her students, he's hurting the teacher as well and the school.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Amy Pemberton
Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:19 AM
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I read the letter by Frustrated about her child's 5th grade teacher. The principal hands are tied and that is why he sent the family to the teacher. That teacher is protected by the union and tenure. The only recourse that these parents have is to file an educational neglect case and emotional distress case. They will get no help from the school officials who fear what the union will do to them. Because the teacher probably has tenure, she will not be removed from the classroom and will be able to continue this bad behavior.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Leikela
Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:31 AM
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Oh,Oh,Oh
I have to comment about the 5th grade student. I also worked at a school up until 5 yrs. ago with a teacher like this student has. I went to the principle, who also told parents to talk to the teachers(that's a cop out) just to have them distort the truth to the principle. WAITING list!!!! what does that tell you? I had a parent tell me she talked to the principle and was told they were not aware of any problems. Go to the Superintendant. This parent needs to write to his local paper and see how many other parents come forward, then see if there is nothing that can be done. This just sickens me. The anxiety this student is going through everyday. I am all for coping skills, but what message is this student getting. Please, Please, tell this parent to be an advocate for his/her child.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Sueman
Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:19 AM
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I don't think talking to the teacher is a total no go but I do think that it is overrated. Moving schools, if at all possible, does.
Some teachers really don't like some kids. My sister had to be pulled from our local school when the teacher's only acceptable response for a child who finished their work early was to sit WITH HANDS FOLDED ON THEIR DESK.
Not as a signal that they were done, but until everyone else finished. Imagine how well most children did with that rule, especially active ones. Was it a wonder my sister hated school before the end of the 1st semester. Thankfully we had family willing to help with the cost of private schools and she didn't return for the 2nd semester and stayed away until 6th grade, and you can bet that she got the BEST teacher in the school at that point.
Dare O say this, but is your child old enough to conceal something like a digital voice recorder. It may not be permissible in court, but if you brought a recording of a screaming, belittling, out of control teacher along with the demand to move classes that day, it might carry more weight. Especially knowing, where those tapes can end up these days...
Comment: #9
Posted by: Mich
Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:00 AM
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This is in response to Frustrated about the teacher that was a monster. We had the same situation from a teacher that had been moved around from school to school in our system and I'd heard about her poor teaching and people skills. My son got her for 1st and 3rd grade, never finishing either grade with her. She wrote "yuck" on something he colored in 1st grade, didn't teach the class and was degrading. I managed to get him moved to another class.
In 3rd grade I tried to have the mindset that we have to deal with difficult people in life and he was older and in a class with several boys he played baseball with. Safety in numbers, right? This woman was a nightmare. She was partial to the girls, letting them grade papers, sit up at her desk with her and have them rub her neck. She mimmicked a boy that stuttered and he stayed in trouble with his parents over her. Thankfully, she was not there alot, so they had wonderful substitutes. Tolerable.
The line was drawn in the sand, for me, when she wouldn't let my son go to the nurse to come home sick. He apparently had come down with a fever and his nose had become raw from rubbing it so hard. He was out sick the next day and I did have a meeting with her and the principal over the matter. She lied through her teeth, made light of it and pretended to act like she cared. On Monday, my son asked for his make-up work for the day he missed. I feel she retaliated by sending him home with every book they had. He fell in the door with tears in his eyes from riding his bike home with 27 pounds of books in his backpack. There were four hours worth of make-up work assigned, that I helped him with, because it was so unreasonable. And I know, that's not what was assigned the day he missed because she didn't LIKE grading papers. By the way, my son NEVER struggled in school, straight A's, spelling bees, honor roll, everything. Our children's education was as much our responsibility as it was the school system's.
I managed to get him out of her class by going to the superintendent and requesting to change schools because the principal said there wasn't any room in any of the other classes. Then magically there was an opening.
My son was in her class until February. It's not like we didn't give her a chance, but for his safety, he had to be moved from this evil, sorry excuse for a human being.
Baseball practice started about that time and alot of us parents started talking about this teacher and all of the nightmares she was putting on these children. Without forming a lynch mob, we tried to get something done about her by following all the right procedures, to avail. Totally fruitless. She came back the next year to make other children's lives a living hell. She got moved to another school the next. I'm sure she retired, eventually. Afterall, this was almost twenty years ago and it still makes me mad. So, hang in there Frustrated, because in the end all you can do is try to take care of your own child in this kind of situation.
Muskogee, OK
Comment: #10
Posted by: janise carter
Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:59 AM
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Dear frustrated, Your letter about your son's teacher brought back bad memories of the 7th grade teacher who taught both my sons in Texas. the main problem was that several teachers ran the school instead of the principal. When the principal was replaced, the teacher was taken out of the regular classrooms and reassigned to work elsewhere in the school. Since then, there have been no other problems and the school has gone from having the worst reputation in the area to being one of the best
Comment: #11
Posted by: BEEN THERE, DONE THAT
Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:42 AM
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Oh, please. I had the same problem when my oldest was in 1st grade. The principal told me the same thing and then ended the conversation with two comments: was my son by any chance blue eyed and blond that this teacher had a problem with that and she's due to retire in two years so we're just letting her finish. I told him great, but if my son wasn't transferred the next day, along with the boy across the street who was having the same difficulty with the teacher, that he would be hearing from my lawyer. Both were in a new classroom the next day. Most teachers are great. However, when there is a pattern of behavior why even bother.
Comment: #12
Posted by: s briggs
Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:48 PM
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That was a sad response from Annie. No child should be subjected to this kind of abuse. Which is why I am an advocate for putting monitored cameras into the classrooms. It protects the children and the teachers against any violence, but moreover, it ensures the teachers actually do their job properly. The only way a teacher is evaluated is when a supervisor sits in the class for a few minutes once a year. That was the only day one of my teachers ever taught anything. That kind of evaluating is absolutely pointless and useless. The system allows non-teachers to stay and we wonder why so many kids aren't learning what they should. It's time to take our schools back and demand accountability. Teachers should be paid very well, but on the same token, should be worth that pay.
Comment: #13
Posted by: cathy mccoy
Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:58 PM
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Annie, you missed the mark on the student with the bad teacher. I live in the Old West in a little town where good teachers are hard to find. They have low pay and the good ones don't come here. Yes there are some good, even excellent teachers here but I am talking about the bad ones. We have to settle for bad teachers. My daughter encountered some bad ones. One teacher wouldn't let the kids go to the restroom and of course they peed their pants. Another wouldn't let a young girl to the restroom and she needed to because of menstration and consequently she had blood all over her skirt. If it were me, I would go to the teacher, to the principal, to the superintendent, and then to the school board. No child should have to be subjected to this. The advice that he will have bad people in his life is not good advice. No wonder there are so many dropouts, the schools are not good and don't inspire kids to learn and to enjoy learning.
Comment: #14
Posted by:
Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:49 PM
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About the student and the bad teacher: I would find out if I could visit the classroom and then I would do so, maybe on a daily basis. If I couldn't visit the classroom, I would find out why I couldn't and find a way that I could. I would advocate for my child. Makes homeschooling seem attractive.
Comment: #15
Posted by:
Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:42 PM
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Sounds to me like an open-and-shut case for local control of schools, merit pay, accountability to parents, a streamlined process for getting rid of weak or incompetent administrators, and the passage of laws which force the breakup of teachers' unions.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Matt
Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:48 AM
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I had teachers I didn't care for, but even when I was a child I could tell the difference between one who was simply strict or not my type and the ones who were in the job so they could bully with impunity. I'm remembering 5th grade Mrs. T who was very rigid and particular, but NEVER EVER belittled or demeaned a kid that I remember. Another, 3rd/4th grade teacher, (I cannot or will not remember her name) who seemed to delight in causing kids to squirm or cry. Especially the girls. No little thing could be simply corrected, the child must be held up as a bad example and have a few choice remarks made.
I once had an accident in the class and she couldn't let me escape to the office to wait for a change of clothes without several remarks about it loudly in front of the class.
Comment: #17
Posted by: moon
Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:54 AM
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Dear Annie,
I usually enjoy your column, but you missed the mark in your 11/18 column in two very significant ways.
First, your advice to "Frustrated" urged a parent to talk first to the teacher. I agree. The problem comes with your next piece of advice, which was that this was an opportunity for the son to learn how to deal with difficult people. Annie, the letter said the teacher "is mean and degrading and belittles the children on a daily basis." She also said, the children "are tormented each day." While this may be hyperbole, it's possible it's true. And if it is true, it is absolutely unacceptable, and she needs to remove her child from that atmosphere immediately. Too often we let things that are outrageous pass because they are done by authority figures. Being in a position of authority does not make tormenting children acceptable. No child should be subjected to this treatment.
Secondly, your advice to "Husband of a Sudden Bisexual" included this statement: "If your wife is bisexual, your marriage may not be reconcilable." While it is probable that this marriage is not reconcilable, the problem isn't bisexuality, per se, and your answer reinforces a false stereotype that says bisexuals are inherently promiscuous and can't be monogamous just because they're attracted to people of both sexes. To the contrary, bisexuals absolutely can be in faithful, committed monogamous relationships. Please be more careful about spreading these stereotypes about bisexuals! The Husband of a Sudden Bisexual's problem that may make the marriage irreconcilable is his wife's desire, which is she is acting on, to have sex with other people. The sex of the people she is having it with is immaterial.
Sincerely,
Rev. Dr. Cynthia L. Landrum
Comment: #18
Posted by: Cynthia Landrum
Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:58 AM
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I suggest to go to the school board about this teacher.I had been in the same situtation with my sons 1st grade teacher.I talked to the princable,as well as the teacher.The only response I got from the teacher was yelling with negative comments.Then did I have to go straight to school board about,not only the teacher but the princable,as well.The teacher got removed from the school.Unforunately,the princable got her hand slapped.
Comment: #19
Posted by: Lori
Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:03 AM
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Dear Frustrated, please ignore the Annies advice - it is incredibly stupid. This teacher is a miserable piece of crap and the principle is a coward. I once had a teacher in 6th grade who liked to pull the students hair and ears plus heap verbal abuse. One day she pulled my hair and I went home and told my parents. The next day my father took the day off of work and went down to have a little chat with her. She never touched me again and never spoke out of turn to me. I would highly suggest you have a little chat with her and let her know what you plan on doing to her the next time she abuses your child. I would also suggest embarrassing her in front of the class and her peers. The fact that she is picking on children tells you that she is a coward. Take her down. You may want to consider involving the police if she is terrorizing the children. Maybe getting questioned by the police in front of everyone will force her to change her ways.
Comment: #20
Posted by: Diana
Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:19 PM
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The fact that there's a waiting list for children to get out of this teacher's class speaks volumes. I had a situation like this, had my son removed and when I demanded a document of the events be placed in her file, the principal actually told me she had never had a written complaint filed against her and she was retiring the next year. I told him to put me down as number one. I would talk to the other mothers and fathers and keep your kids out of school until they get rid of her. They get money for each child who attends so it shouldn't take long. Call the local paper, whatever, just don't stop trying. Children can be horribly abused by teachers and they are powerless without parents who speak up. Good for you for trying.
Comment: #21
Posted by: Jayn Cameron
Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:11 PM
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