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Dreams of "What If?"
Dear Margo: I'm a 20-something woman engaged to the best man I've ever known. I am beyond ecstatic to be getting married. My problem has nothing to do with him and everything to do with a guy who was one of my best friends in college. This guy and I …Read more.
Afraid of Little Girls
Dear Margo: Between the ages of 6 and 10, I was severely bullied, but I was given the impression by grownups that such behavior was perfectly normal for children and I shouldn't be so sensitive. (I now realize they probably did not pay attention to …Read more.
Every Problem Does Not Have a Solution
Dear Margo: Many years ago, I got a call informing me that my son was arrested and being held on $1 million bail. That was when I first learned that he is a pedophile.
He has just completed his 20-year prison sentence, and during that time I learned …Read more.
When You Live on a One-Way Street
Dear Margo: My patience has run out with the three living members of my family. My father, his mother and my brother have gone through periods of not talking to each other or to me. My brother wants nothing to do with my father or our grandmother, …Read more.
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More than a 13-Year-Old Can Handle
Dear Margo: I'm very worried about my friend. I'm 12, and she will be turning 13. She has casual sex, and unfortunately, she binge drinks and does drugs a lot. She makes very bad choices regarding boys, and I worry for her health and safety. I doubt she uses protection, and I wouldn't be surprised if she got pregnant or an STD sooner or later. I've tried to suggest nicely that she be more careful, but she is set in her ways and thinks she is much more mature than she is. It doesn't help that her closest friends are also like that.
I'm sure others have told her these things, too, but she just doesn't listen. I feel like if she keeps this up, she'll end up having many problems with substances and a low opinion of men. She's had some close calls, but she hasn't snapped out of it. I worry that the only way she'll see reason is if she hits rock bottom, but I obviously don't want her to be beyond repair when she realizes it. — Worried in Michigan
Dear Wor: It is hard for me to believe that these things go on with 12- and 13-year-old kids, but I know that they do. Such a young girl clearly has little parental supervision and many problems. If I were you, I would go to the school nurse or counselor and tell this person of your worries. That adult may open the subject with your friend. The response may not be positive. Because you have "suggested" she modify her behavior and that has not helped, I fear it will take a pregnancy or an STD to wake her up, but you will have tried your best to be a friend. Sometimes we can only get so far in trying to save a friend from herself. — Margo, historically
A Sticky Wicket
Dear Margo: There are two men in my life for whom I have very strong feelings. One, "Tom," I have known for years. We dated previously, and I was deeply in love with him. He broke my heart, though, and only in the past few months have we become close friends again. But recently, he's been trying to resurrect our romance. I am wary because of the past.
The other man, "Carl," is very sweet and has become one of my best friends. We hang out every day and are close. I have developed very strong feelings for him and have heard, from mutual friends, that he feels the same. The only problem is that he hasn't told me directly how he feels. To make things more complicated, these two men are best friends.
I want to do what is right, but I don't want to sacrifice my friendship with either of them. I love Tom and always will. He was my first love, but I don't know whether it's worth trying again. Meanwhile, I'm head over heels for Carl, and I could see us having a great relationship — if only one of us could get the courage to make a move. — Hopeless Romantic
Dear Hope: The best friends part is not so great. However, to get your bearings, I suggest you make the move and ask Carl if he envisions something more than being good buddies. It is hard to predict how this would play out, and there is the possibility that you might not be able to keep both men as friends. Or, worst-case scenario, they might be unable to maintain their closeness. In other words, it's a tossup. — Margo, providentially
Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via the online form at www.creators.com/dearmargo. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.
COPYRIGHT 2012 MARGO HOWARD
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM
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Comments
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20 Comments | Post Comment
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LW1: FAKE letter. No 12 year old writes like that.
LW2: You need to get out and meet other guys. Please do so.. I promise you there are many out there. This sounds like a power struggle between two men with you as the bone they are snarling over. Let it go. If things are meant to be with Carl, he'll be around while you get outside of this somewhat incestuous circle of friends. Tom? He's hurt you once, he'll hurt you again. Let it GO.
Comment: #1
Posted by: nanchan
Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:19 PM
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Re: nanchan
I agree, the first letter seems fake. I see letters all the time like that. "I'm 11 and I'm in middle school. I'm having a problem with my friend. . . . . " Maybe I'm mistaken, but I just don't think kids in that age group are that articulate, or that literate. That being said, don't discount the possibility that this 12-year-old has an older sibling or acquaintance who edited for her before she sent it.
The second letter sounds fake to me too -- although I may just be naive Either way, you are right on the money.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Lynn
Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:11 AM
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LW1--"I'm 12, and she will be turning 13. She has casual sex, and unfortunately, she binge drinks and does drugs a lot." By the age of TWELVE??? God I'm getting old... Where the hell are this girl's parents?!? Her teachers?!? Her pastor?!? The POLICE?!? As a twelve year-old, you are wise beyond your years. Your friend isn't "set in her ways" she's damaged and her behavior puts her on a path of self-destruction that will eventually end with her death or imprisonment. And trust me, there are a lot worse things than death that can happen to her along the way. You've talked to your friend to no avail and now it's time for you to act. Go to a trusted parent, teacher, clergy person or even the police and show him or her your letter. Explain that you're worried sick about your friend. What you'll be doing is not narking, it's saving your friend's life. Please do it today.
LW2--"I'm head over heels for Carl, and I could see us having a great relationship — if only one of us could get the courage to make a move." For heaven's sake MAKE A MOVE! "He who...hesitates is lost." Sitting around on your duff pining away for 'Carl' while reminiscing for your lost love 'Tom' has obviously clouded your senses. Here's what you do: You get on your phone and invite Carl to an obviously romantic dinner (someplace quaint and nice, not 'Applebees') during which you explain to him exactly what you told Margo. If you misread the cards and discover that he doesn't feel the same way about you, then you're free to rekindle your failed romance with Tom. Personally, I would recommend you forget about Tom because he seems to be as wishy washy as you. In any case, good luck.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Chris
Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:40 AM
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LW 1: The letter could be very heavily edited. If I had to guess, I'd say it was very heavily edited and specific examples were truncated down to a few sentences.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Shannon
Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:58 AM
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I was going to echo Nanchan in so many words and tell LW2 (not that I believe the LWs always read BTL, but it's fun to pretend) that Tom just wants to get laid and do the alpha male thing on Carl. But I read her letter to my husband and then told him what I thought. He said "All men want to get laid. It's not going to work. She should go far, far away."
Comment: #5
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:54 AM
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Re: Shannon
The reason I suspect the first letter is a fake is the tone of the letter as well as the sentence "I feel like if she keeps this up, she'll end up having many problems with substances and a low opinion of men." I know many extremely articulate 12 year olds, but I don't know any 12 year old that says something like that.
RE: Chris's post on LW1 (assuming the letter is legit). I agree the LW should talk to an adult at this point. I woud steer clear of talking to the friend's parents though . At the very least they are guilty of child neglect. I suspect the friend has been a victim of sexual abuse, probably at home, as well. The LW should tell a teacher or her own parents and let them take it from there. She should also stop hanging out with this girl and the other "friends" at least for now.
Comment: #6
Posted by: nanchan
Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:05 AM
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LW1-
Happy, well-cared for kids don't generally behave like your friend. Something is going on here.
Your friend sounds self-destructive. Substance abuse often occurs when someone is trying to numb the pain of something unbearable. The fact that she is so carelessly active sexually at her young age would point out to her being molested.
That she should be so out of control indicates she is totally unmonitored and woefully neglected at best. And, given the behaviour you're describing, there is probably a lot more to the situation that mere neglect. Call CPS.
LW2-
Make the move. Nothing risked, nothing gained. Take a chance on #2 as he's the better bet. Mister First love likely feels romantic again just to see if he can stil get you - AND possibly because he knows how #2 feels about you and he's marking his territory. Don't let him break your heart again.
@nanchan
Perhaps, perhaps not, She may have had someone write the letter for her. Margo may have rewritten it herself. Think of some of the LWs who've written directly BTL asking for advice. Some of them sounded barely literate. THIS is what some of the letters look like before editing.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:23 AM
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Re: nanchan
"The reason I suspect the first letter is a fake is (...) the sentence "I feel like if she keeps this up, she'll end up having many problems with substances and a low opinion of men"
You have a point, but she may be repeating what her mother or another adult told her after she discussed it with him or her.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:26 AM
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As an adult felony probation officer, I can tell you without a doubt, that LW1's letter could be entirely true. The people I come across are lucky to still be alive.
Comment: #9
Posted by: happymom
Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:28 AM
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Re: happymom
I don't doubt that the situation is real, just that the letter itself is.
Even when I was young, this type of thing existed. When I was in sixth grade (about the LW's age) there was a girl who drank like a fish at school (at her locker) and was well known by all to "service" the boys. It turned out she had learned what to do at home (her father was prostituting her out to his friends). All I knew at the time was that she was a hard person, extremely angry. I stayed away from her, she scared me. When the authorities busted her father, the situation was all over the news (he was prominent in our community) and she had to leave the state to finish school. This is nothing new, just the way it is presented here is not ringing true to me.
I have a hard time with advice columnists who pose an obviously fake letter in order to make a very important social statement. Had the LW been an adult concerned about the situation, I could have understood the verbage of the letter itself. Editing down is different than rewording a letter: we saw an instance of that out on Annies site yesterday. If Margo is guilty of rewording a letter to get the most rise out of the public, it's a plagiorism and should actually be held to the same journalistic standard as any other writer is held to.
Comment: #10
Posted by: nanchan
Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:45 AM
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Re: nanchan
I don't usually respond to other posters but I had to say good catch on lw1. You were dead on.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Diana
Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:04 PM
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LW1: Why does everyone think 12-year-olds are idiots who don't know how to form a sentence? Perhaps those people themselves were dumb when they were 12. I was quite articulate at that age, and English was my strongest subject in school. I wrote quite well and could have written a letter just like this Plus, when you submit a letter such as this, you'd look up words in a thesaurus to be as articulate as possible. That, combined with the editors of this website who fine-tune the article, can make it sound better. Sure, it could be fake. What if it isn't?
A 12-year-old can have poor parents who don't supervise. Plenty of them become pregnant these days, and do drugs. The advice is good - tell the school nurse. Once the school is informed, it is their obligation to try and do something about it. She can also write an anonymous letter to the parents of the girl. The parents need to be informed.
Comment: #12
Posted by: Salty
Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:22 PM
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Re: Salty
Salty,
I had the same thought as you did about the ability of 12-year olds to write. Having had a mother who read to me from before I could remember, I was reading novels from the age of seven. Well-read people have the additional blessing of being able to write well because of their exposure to books. I think it is kind of insulting to assume the first letter is a fake, just because it is well-written. I agree that the comment about the friend developing "a low opinion of men" seems kind of odd for anyone to write. I think the problem is that this girl already has a low opinion of herself due to some issues, probably parental. And if there are boys and/or men who would take advantage of a girl with such serious issues, they deserve for people to have a low opinion of them.
Comment: #13
Posted by: Carly O
Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:53 PM
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Re: LW1, it's entirely possible the letter is true and was written by a precocious 12-year-old. I think there's certainly an understandable desire to hope that the letter is a fake, given the situation described, and certainly the *average* 12-year-old is unlikely to formulate a letter like this one; on the other hand, though, there are sadly 12 and 13 year olds who have experienced this, and some that are certainly articulate enough to write such a letter, or to mimic the wording they've heard from adults around them describing the situation.
Still and all, I do *hope* the letter is a fake.
LW2, make a first move on Carl, even if its somewhat indirect. It doesn't sound like you want to resurrect anything other than friendship with Tom, so just nicely make that clear to him; that you two have gone down that route before, it didn't work out, and you really like the friendship you have now, and want to keep it as is.
If he's truly your friend and truly Carl's friend, he'll be understanding when/if something does start to develop between you and Carl.
My recommendation is to immediately make it clear to Tom that he's in "the friend zone", and then slowly start to develop the possibility with Carl. If you immediately start to date Carl seriously right after the talk with Tom, he may be more stung and more likely to react badly; if he has some time to adjust to being just friends, though, he might react better to his two friends dating each other.
Ultimately, though, be honest about your feelings for both of them, and be patient and kind, and it should work out okay.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Mike H
Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:22 AM
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Umm, in regards to LW1, yes, there are articulate kids out there.
In first grade, I read the entire little reader the teacher was passing around before she finished passing them out. I was separated and tested and they determined I was reading up to a middle school level.
But then again, my father was illiterate...I credit him for reading so well because as soon as we were walking and knew what "indoor voice" meant, we were at the public library several times a week.
Also, back in my day when I was 12 years old, I knew girls who were acting out the same way as described in the letter. Unfortunately, this stuff does happen.
Comment: #15
Posted by: Miss Sashay
Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:00 PM
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So the average girl of 12 doesn't have what it takes to write this well. "Average" is not 100%, and there are plenty of kids who are not average. I don't know if I could have written this at 12, but at 14, definitely.
Anne Frank was 13 when she started her famous diary.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:21 AM
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In response to Distressed in Denver which appeared in the BOSTON GLOBE on 1/17/12, perhaps she, like faculty members, should post her office hours for student consultations. I know as an administrator this cannot always be true with meetings, etc., but this may solve the fact that she has a reputation for being inaccessible. Iwas an admoinistrative assistant (department secretary) in a college before retirement. Now I'm a student there.
Jane Mulsman
Salem State University
Salem, MA
Please don't use my name or college if you print this response
Comment: #17
Posted by: Jane Mulsman
Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:39 AM
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Yes, there are 12 year olds out there having sex, drinking and doing drugs. And yes, there are 12 year olds out there who are capable of writing well. As a professional writer and editor myself, I was reading 200-page books by the time I was in second grade -- like a lot of writers, I got my start from reading. I definitely could have written this letter when I was 12.
Having said that, however, I still question whether the letter is real. When I was 12, if I'd had a friend like this, I suspect my concerns would have been different. I doubt I'd have been worried that she would develop a low opinion of men -- I think I'd have been worried that boys were developing (or already had) a low opinion of HER. And, even as articulate as I was, I probably would have referred to this as her developing a bad reputation. Moreover, I'd have been more worried about her own self esteem (and I would have referred to it in just that way), not her "opinion of men." Being concerned about her "developing a low opinion of men" suggests a concern for how she will interact with men in the future and how she will (or won't) have good relationships with men in the future -- an idea that most 12-year-olds just aren't forward-thinking enough to worry about. They're much more typically concerned about what's going on RIGHT NOW.
So, yes, it's possible there's a 12-year-old girl out there with a friend her age who is having sex, doing drugs and drinking. And it's possible that 12-year-old girl is well above average in her reading and writing skills. And it's possible that 12-year-old girl is also already into pop psychology. And it's possible she got an older friend to help her with the letter (though if that's the case, one hopes the older friend, who would almost certainly have to be an adult, would instead be contacting parents and/or teachers, etc.).
As for the letter being edited by Margo... I know that when I wrote a letter to Larry Meeks a couple of years ago, he used my letter -- and it was definitely reworded quite a bit (he actually dumbed it down a lot). So, whether it's the writer or the writer's editor, that definitely happens. But it's not plagiarism, as one poster suggested, since plagiarism has to do with stealing someone else's writing and claiming it as your own. This would actually sort of be the opposite -- using one's own words but saying they are someone else's.
Honestly, I doubt Margo made substantive changes to get people riled up. If changes were made at Margo's end, I suspect they were made in order to condense the letter and/or to make it more clear.
In any event, I think the advice that's been given, both by Margo and BTL has been good.
Comment: #18
Posted by: Lisa
Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:32 AM
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@Jane Mulsman -- um, I hope you were kidding about not using your name or college, since you wrote to the public posting section, rather than privately to Margo. Your name and the name of your college has been posted on the web now for quite some time!
Comment: #19
Posted by: Lisa
Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:33 AM
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Re: nanchan - 4 of my 5 children were quite articulate and well versed when speaking and writing at that age. One was speaking with a full vocabulary by the time he was 6-months old. While I do not believe that every child (or adult for that matter) has the capability, I did not think twice that a 12-year old would write this letter. In fact, I remember when my youngest related to me the very same concerns involving a friend of hers when she was that age and using similar verbiage.
I knew kids were experimenting at an earlier age and wanted to prepare my children with knowledge. My kids did understand the ramifications of dangerous behavior, but only because I did not wait to have these discussions. By the time they are 11 or 12 years of age, they are having these discussions with their friends. I made sure my children understood the facts, even explaining the myths I was sure they would hear from a friend. The young lady in question has been lost in the cracks and most likely has a parent that is not very involved in her life. On another note, most children displaying sexual inclinations may have or is experiencing abuse. Either way, an adult needs to be involved, and now.
Comment: #20
Posted by: jajjaaj
Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:01 AM
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