Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

First, who is the one to help your mom in this case? Who helps get her bills paid, etc? You need to have someone with a legal signiture. If it is one of those at the house or the other sister, you have grounds for fraud and theft that way. As it is, you go to her bank and see what you can do. Go to the county attorney's office and also the sheriff department. Also call SOCIAL SECURITY and let them know of fraud with your mother's information, etc. Need to get your butt up and going. There are FEDERAL laws against this. The longer you wait the longer it takes to get done. The rehab place your mom is at will be using her SS and medicare check to cover things. So what money are they using at her house?
See a lawyer as well. AND then tell your mom what is going on. Screw your sister. She is part of the THREATS to your mother. You are the only one she has to report this and get it stopped. And don't let your sister tell you GOD is on her side. We all know HE IS NOT.
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LW3: The officers DO carry the BAC kits in their cars and have radios to call for help to get what they need. THIS is part of a federal grant that all states got and have gotten for many years. They can also make them go UNDER ARREST to the local hospital for a blood alcohol draw. And you hae the right to file a CIVIL SUIT against this person. Go do it. Only way for your mind to rest. See an attorney.
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LW2: Go read the other two letters and you will find yours is such trivial behavior. Throwing tantrums at your inlaws or your husband is not going to get your way at any point. First--just reading your letter, grow up. When you got 10 years on your age, sit back and read what you wrote and see how you sound. Wisdom does come with age. As well as tolerance. Make your tantrums count IF you are going to do them. Or else you look like a 3 year old doing it.

AMEN Joyce! Your advice for LW1 is the best. I read that letter and almost got physically ill. Why would anyone want to abuse an 86 year woman and then APS refuses to take action? What? These people are STEALING and then the sister brings in GOD?

I'm still upset, but Joyce, your post was a voice of reason on this one. Yikes! Poor mom. She probably took care of people her whole life and now she's being abused. It's so sad.

Tantrum? What?! Her ILs are cruel to her, inform her and her dh they are "children" and he continues to socialize with them. I'm sorry but anyone who talks to my spouse that way is not going to be welcome in my life, and that is what GROWING UP means, putting your spouse first.

LW1, Go get your mother. Go get your mother and bring her to live with you. Of course grandma won't cooperate with APS, she's being abused. How dumb are they. And your sister is an enabling bitch. Stop talking to her. She can foot the bill for her disgusting children.

Joyce, while every police car may have one now, but this was ten years ago, and not all small police departments had the resources or equipment they needed. Depending on just how small the town is, it's possible even today for them not to have all the proper equipment ready at hand. But the LW put well I though: Drunk drivers are selfish people who need help.

Jeez, I really needed to proof read. Tons of spelling and grammar errors in my post.

LW1, if you have proof of identity theft, and the theft and subsequent sale of drugs, call the cops. Your sister's kids are thieves and drug dealers, and your sister is an accessory. They all belong in jail. If that doesn't work, go to Omaha, change the locks, and physically throw these people out on the street. Take their money, take their stuff, and lock them out. Let them try to petition "the system" to get back in--which will never happen as long as there's a police report documenting identity theft and drug dealing. Of course, this will only work if your mother will at least let you do it (can you bring her to live with you for a few months while you deal with this?). If Mom wants to put up with it, and if you cannot convince her to give you POA or assign POA to a trusted professional who will handle your mother's finances in an above-board manner, then okay. You can't prevent someone from allowing people to steal from her and mistreat her. Maybe Mom will figure out that she needs to protect herself, and maybe she won't. It's frustrating as hell, but sometimes you have to let people decide how many punches in the nose is enough for them.

LW2: Tell your in-laws that you will under no circumstances tolerate their mistreatment, that it is completely unacceptable, and that they can either treat you with respect or they can go to hell. Then cut off your relationship with them. Don't talk to them, don't send them Christmas cards, don't send the kids over there to visit, just pretend they aren't even on the planet. If Hubby wants to talk to them, they can call his cell phone. If he wants to visit, he can do it by himself. If he can or can't stand up to them for you, then whatever--that's his journey. But YOU can stand up for you, and you are certainly justified in telling them to their faces that you are no child and that you will not put up with their bullshit for one second. You do not have to be nice to people who refuse to treat you with common decency.

LW1: Oh for God's sake - call the police! She broke so many laws it's ridiculous. What is wrong with you?

LW2: You're an adult, right? Fight your own battles. Whenever they hurt your feelings speak up. Not to your husband. To them. Right there. Got it?

RE LW2:

The "We are the parents" and "You are the children" line sounds very familiar...I've heard it several times, and always from asian families. I'm wondering if there is a lot more here. I wish I knew what the "intentional cruelty" was, or how this confrontation went. Even the parents response about "not being lectured by the children" doesn't seem to match being accused of being cruel i.e. They didn't deny it, nor justify it, nor admit it or give a reason for it, or say she was wrong, they interpreted it as a lecture......How did this whole thing go down ?

I think there is a lot more to this story then was written, either way, cutting off contact with the inlaws could work, unless they are from a different culture, in which case, they will have no idea what happened or why or understand it at all.

LW1 needs to contact her mother's bank, the local police, and any other enforcement agency available in the area in which her mother lives. Of course he mother won't tell APS that anything is wrong -- the family she's living with have probably threatened her if she did!

If the LW has proof that the abuse exists, then she needs to supply it to the authorities, and if it's possible to remove her mother from that abusive situation by taking her to live with her, she should do it immediately!

LW1 - Call the police! Theft, selling drugs on the streets and credit card fraud. Report it! It's time to take action since your mother is obviously too scared to do so. Her health and well being depend on it. F your sister, she's just as guilty as her dead beat kids for having no problem with what they're doing. It's time to take the bull by the horns.

LW2 - I see you married my ex-husband! Oh, honey, I have been in your shoes. My ex-MIL used me as her punching bag, insulting me every six ways to Sunday and tried to control my life. She also used the "I am the mother, you are the child, you have to listen to me!" line. My ex-husband also never defended me. He was petrified of his mother. You are doing the right thing by refusing to be around those cruel people. They will never apologize and never change their ways so having nothing to do with them is really all you can do. As long as you don't try to stop your husband from having a relationship with them, you are doing nothing wrong.

LW3 - I am very sorry for your loss :(

LW1--"She claims the thievery is between Joanna, Mom and God." Don't make me puke! Your sister and her rotten bunch of no good devil's spawn are taking advantage of your mother. Of course they don't have jobs; their job is to suck grandma dry like a bunch of vampires. When grandma has nothing more to give, you can bet dollars to donuts that they'll suddenly find new homes and new lives to destroy. Stop kowtowing to your sister! She's every bit as guilty as her children for your mother's abuse if not more so considering she's the one who raised these monsters! Go to your mother and throw every one of your sister's parasitic brats and their kids out on their butts! Don't let yourself get caught up by guilt trips or concern for the nephew or niece's children. They're not your problem! Make a full accounting of what's been stolen, pawned and sold for drugs, including the medications. Then call the police and press charges. Take out a restraining order if you must, then get your mother the care she deserves.

LW2--Why don't you defend yourself? If your husband's parents say or do something that offends you, by all means speak up? Don't sit there seething in silence expecting your husband to rush to your defense. It's very difficult for adult children, sometimes, to break away from their role as the "child" which means the parents maintain emotional control long after a child has grown up and moved out. This is the case with your husband. He's working hard to make his parents show more respect, but you're free to do your part to ensure that they do too. If they don't like it, tough bananas!

LW1: Yes, do *something*. And not "forgiving your niece" and ignoring it! Get your mom. Talk to her *alone*. Stay with her while she files police reports, file them yourself if you can. Get her to give you power of attorney, kick the kids out of her house, and move in with her or move her in with you and sell the house out from under those freeloaders. And let your sister have it with both barrels -- both that she could allow her children to do this without any repercussions and that she would stand idly by and do nothing to help her own mother.

Also... what kind of parent was she, that as adult her kids think this is okay to do?!

Whatever you do, STOP LISTENING TO YOUR SISTER. She's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

LW2: Let's assume the letter is true as edited, and this is the parent's fault. It's hard to cut off your parents, but your husband is trying. Maybe, if he does decide to see them on his own, he can make it clear that he won't hear one bad word about you or one more word about the situation -- other than them apologizing -- then he'll walk out the door. And he should stick to that. Even the most obtuse parents will figure it out quickly enough.

As for the "you'll always be the child" -- he should tell them he's an adult now, and if they won't treat him and his wife with respect, then they don't deserve any from him, either. And he should tell them he's ashamed of their poor behavior, it has embarrassed him in front of his wife and her family. (If it is a cultural issue, shaming them with their bad behavior compared to LW2's family's good behavior may be the "wake up call" that they need).

Heck, depending on the culture, he could disown them... "you are no longer my parents" can also be a very powerful message of disapproval that could be the "reality slap" they need to realize they're pushing him away.

in addition to what the other posters have suggested, if you can find out what pawn shop mom's jewelry was taken to, give that information to the police. perhaps you can recover it. also, no one mentioned cancelling all of the charge accounts. this could still be a source of income the the niece. plug those holes so it won't happen.

Regarding LW3, please accept condolances on the loss of your son to a drunk driver.
I had a neighbor who was falling down drunk by afternoon and who's school-aged son would wrestle the keys from her almost daily so she couldn't drive. I would help him when I was home more, times than I can count.
One day she did manage to drive off. I immediately called the police department near my house, gave explicit details of the car, make, model, her information, everything I could.
The policeman on the phone told me there was nothing he could do, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack, even though she had just left. I gave him her directions and because school had just let out, I knew there was most likely a police car right in the area that she probably passed.
I was furious and told him so. I gave him my name and told him to remember this call when he got a call to go out to a horrific accident involving that car, if it came to that. He apologized and told me he knew I was upset but there was nothing he could do.
Thankfully she never harmed anyone but eventually did go to jail because of her DUIs. Please check with your local police departments and don't assume drunk drivers will be dealt with with a 911 call.

We all read the same thing and come to different conclusions. My read on LW2 is quite different. She argued with her husband for several weeks before he decided that confronting his parents was worth some peace at home. Per-haps she is a 'young bride' and is not the most budget minded of individuals. Son could be working two jobs to try and keep the creditors at bay. Maybe Mom and Dad are helping with the bills and are getting tired of supporting this young couple and are offering her some (obviously unwanted) advice. Lots of perhaps, maybes and coulds. Nothing in the letter says what the in-laws said that was so cruel. That would be a big help in deciding what was really going on. His lack of defense could (once again) mean that he was in agreement with his parents. Just my take on it.
LW1 is curious too. How did the LW know all of this information? Certainly the drug dealing neice is not spreading this information herself. No matter how she found out it is a BAD situation. Best advice was to get POA. She can not clean up what has happened - so start from now, this minute, right away. Short of selling/renting the house I fear there is no way to get the free loaders out. Is she up to the time and effort this will take? It will NOT be an easy task. As for her sister, I believe that God has spoken - "Thou shall toss the bums out!"

LW1 - Instead of writing to the Annies you need to be making lots of phone calls. Elder Care, the police, Social Services, Social Security, the sherrif, an attorney, the bank, etc. However you do it you need get to your mother even though she's in another state (this is America. we get to cross state lines. it's okay.) and get some safeguards set up. Sometimes, I think it's a shame we can't shoot creepy people.


LW2 - Quit whining. You said your piece and you got your reaction. So, now he visits his parents and you stay away. Let it be over now.

LW2: I think the Annies advice is perfect here. Unfortunately, I have seen this type of behavior in all types of families regardless of culture or race.

I don't know why you were surprised at their defensive attitude though. Most people, when confronted, will get on the defensive. It also depends on other things like birth order (is your husband the youngest?), family dynamic (has your husband always needed help from them before now?), age (is your husband in his 20s or is he in his 40s?). For example, my oldest sister can say things to my mother that my youngest brother cannot, which is why we've all learned to get her on board with major issues before confronting Mom. My youngest brother will always be mom's baby, and he's needed help from time to time, so Mom still treats him like a teenager (which drives him nuts). So, it's not as simple as it seems.

Regardless, at some point you have to draw the line and you have. Stand firm that you will not be abused, but as the Annies suggest, make it clear to your husband he can see his parents if he wants to without you. It would be interesting to know if your husband has siblings and if you get along with other members of the family.

PS: How are his parents controlling? Does he work for them? Do you accept financial assistance from them? If so, then you will have to realize that you may need to think of other arrangements financially.

LW1
contact the banks. if they gave out her funds with fraudulent signatures, they are resposible for the funds and must return them. this happend to me for 1500.00 dollars. and in a week i had all my funds restored. also the bank fraud department went after the theif with no charges to me.
if the credit cards were issued without your moms signature. she is not responsible for the charges. in mass she could only be held for a maximum of 50.00 dollars for the card.
get legal smart and go after these dirt bags.

Re: Su

I'm from that area originally. Klamath Falls is a pretty small town, and there are of even smaller towns around it. Depending on where it happened, 45 minutes round trip to get the proper equipment is not unheard of.

Re: Penny
"How did the LW know all of this information?" You ask? Maybe sis isn't as bad as we think. She probably told her out of state sister and WANTS her to do something to protect their mother. If they are threatening their grandmother, it's likely they have their mother scared too. The sister being out of state can do something because she isn't living near the offenders and hasn't been/doesn't feel threatened by them. Saying that she shouldn't tell authorities is her way of distancing herself from her children getting in trouble.

I think the best thing for the LW to do would be to talk her mom into moving either near her or with her in the other state. Or find a way to move nearer to mom and have a POA in place so you can act on this.

I'm whiter than Wonderbread, and I've heard the "I am the parent, you are the child," line many, many times in my adulthood, until I cut my mother out of my life for essentially that reason (it's a really long story). Control issues know no racial boundaries.

When you marry, you agree to put your spouse before all others. On the other hand, it wouldn't kill you to allow your husband to visit his parents. As long as his visits with his parents don't interfere with your relationship with him, let him go and enjoy the alone time.

Re: Su
Hi Su, I AM from a small town, also grew up in another small town. I am also a citizen police volunteer (academy graduate), before that worked with the EMS system. At least 20 years of federal grants to the smaller communities to make sure they got their drunk drivers tested and off the road. Many time they were brought into the ER for labs to be done. And if any came in by ambulance, that was always the given. As hospital staff, it covered your butt legally before you began any treatment that might be administered--subject to change blood content outcome. Simple draw means specific swabs to cleanse the arm, certain gloves to be worn so the 'breakdown possibility' did not happen.
Could it have been the story given to this family when a step of the accident/DUI apprehension was not followed? Was it in a state where GOOD OL' JOE was not a licensed law enforcement officer but a sworn in peace officer? BIG DIFFERENCE. Working in the related fields since the 1970s, things were there, just a matter of states implementing them.

Re LW1 - While the LW may need her mother's cooperation to press charges against the niece for identity theft, I sincerely doubt that she needs her cooperation for Elder Abuse/Protection. She spoke to a lazy representative who didn't feel like doing his/her job. Elder abuse is a hot topic these days and no one is going to just sit while an almost 90 year old is being bled dry.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you report this to her bank they have a legal obligation to conduct an investigation. In the financial industry the standards are so stringent that we make copious notes on all client conversations and if we even begin to suspect elder abuse we are required to report. Period.
The letter writer can also provide proof that her mother was incapacitated. I doubt that the niece has 3rd party authorization for accessing the account or Power of Attorney.
Don't allow your mother to be abused in this way - go be a pitbull on her behalf and don't take no for an answer, and don't let your niece, nephew, or sister intimidate you.

Re: Joyce/MN
Whoa, Joyce! Your response to LW2 was quite heavy-handed, don't you think? Sure, it might not loom as large as 1 and 2, but that does not mean that it is not a real problem, nor does it mean that the LW is throwing a tantrum by looking for help in addressing/resolving it! She can't help that the Annies chose to put her letter in with two others that have bigger impact. Geez!
Personally, I think that LW2 has a real problem on her hands, one that can really take a toll on her day to day life, not to mention her marriage. I partially agree with the Annies in that she should stay away (with her husband's blessings), and he should continue to visit them on his own if he wishes - again, with the wife's blessing.
What I also think is that (1) the son/husband should decrease his visits to them. They *should* feel a repercussion for their bad behavior. (2) If the parents badmouth the wife in her absence the husband needs to make it very clear that he will not tolerate that and will discontinue visiting if they will not stop.

Re: Penny - That sure is a lot of maybe's you are injecting there. It's a bit like writing someone's story in your head.

Re: kristen

I agree with you that LW1 has to act "like a pitbull" but it IS highly likely that the niece has been able to get POA or third party authorization from the elderly grandmother.

I wrote about a situation earlier this week that my best friend is going through right now. In a nutshell: her brother (unable to work because of extensive medical issues as a result of excessive drug abuse) is living with her father and there are a ton of financial issues. Recently, we have reason to believe that the adult son has forced the father to sign over the deed to the house because "I take care of Dad". His idea of taking care of Dad is a house that is fast becoming a neighborhood eyesore (several dead cars in the driveway, trash piled up). My theory, knowing the people involved well, is that Dad is 1)convinced he will never die and 2)afraid that the son will leave him and he will be alone so he has deeded the house over. This is extremely hard on my best friend and has her wondering what else the son has had signed over to him through the threat of leaving his dad alone.

I have seen this with SO many older people, this fear of being alone. They will do almost anything to keep the peace and NOT go to what they think Elder Care is. They have memories of their parents in "old folk's homes" and are terrified to go. I remember my mom telling me when one of my great aunts went to the local "old folk's homes" that it was like getting a three month sentence to die. Well, the REALITY is that many many changes have happened with Elder Care in the last 20 years. One of my friend's mothers opted to go to the local Elder Care facility rather than stay with her children because she had way more FUN there! She was almost completely independant, could come and go as she wanted, but had a lot of help when she needed it. She stayed there 10 years until she passed away this past year (we all still miss her: she was over 100 and a kick till the end).

The problem here with the LW's Mom is that the distance doesn't allow her to have a real grasp of the situation. My first trip is a trip to see the situation first hand. Then to make suggestions based on what the reality is. Right now, she's hearing a lot of stuff, has no exact proof. Get there and figure it out. And while you are organizing everything, do your RESEARCH! Look at the financial realities of the situation and see if there is a reputable and comfortable elder care facility in the area within the budget. Find an elder care attorney in the area and also call 2-1-1 to see if there are other social services available other than APS to help you with this. Then get there (preferably with a male relative with REALLY big muscles) and figure it out. You can't do this remotely. And yes, be prepared to throw the book at the deadbeats.... that's why you go with a male relative with REALLY big muscles.

PS: Karma will get those kids back.

Re: nanchan - Dear God, you are right that she could have the POA. Our client base is really a good, honest one and so I don't generally see the nasty side of humans taking advantage of their elderly.
Yea, she definitely needs to get down there and see the situation for herself.
With the issue of a potential POA in place, I will add to my original comments and say that though a POA has legal standing, there are many institutions that have their own version of a POA that they require (for us it is 3rd party authorization) to show the levels of access. Therefore, if the niece doesn't have *that* institutions financial documents she has a good chance of getting them to act in the best interests of the elderly mother.

LW1-
I assume you know all these details because your mother told you - out of earshot of the freeloading bums. Still, there are important details missing here. that make a huge difference in the possible course to take.

Is the house she lives in hers? If yes, well, next time you get her out of earshot, you have to impress on her that there is very little YOU can do unless she gives you power of attorney, especially if she herself won't press charges or file a report to Adult Protective Services. If the house is hers and she does give you POA, then sell the house and move your mother out - either with you, in a condo too small to accomodate anyone but herself or to a senior residence - whichever she prefers, is feasible and/or is best. It's the only way you'll be able to evict these leeches. Even that will not be easy, as the real estate market right now is not at the seller's advantage, not to mention that the bunch of no-goods will likely do everything they can to sabotage the sale. This may mean you'll have to take some time off the job to attend to this.

If the house is not hers, then it's a little simpler: just get your mother out of there and see if you can break the lease - in that order. You can report the drug-dealing and other illegal activities to the police, the bank and whatever relevant authorities but, failing a complaint from her, there are chances they will do nothing - unless you have POA. Get her to cancel her accounts, or change her bank account number of bank altogether.

About the crazy bitch of a sister:
Lemme get this straight. Her children cleaned out their grandmother's bank acccount, indulged in credit card fraud and identity theft, stole her jewellery and pawned it for drugs, are terrorizing their grandmother, which is called elder abuse, and she says to "forgive Joanna and let it go"?
How do you do that? You don't. This is equivalent to just letting her get away with anything, anything, anything, and never saying a word. WTF?

"insists that I am not permitted to say one negative word to my mother about them."
Otherwise, what? She'll call her goons and get your legs broken? What the hell is this?

Frankly, I'm not sure if you're not just as wimpy towards your sister as your mother is towards her children. "Not permitted" indeed, I'd like to see her try that with ME!

I don't know what exactly to tell you. Even if your mother won't give you POA, won't leave with you whern you come to get her and relocate her, won't do anything... Keep calling everywhere - perhaps someone will listen. Try to get her declared mentally incompetent if nothing else works.

Unless you and especially your mother both find your backbones, there will be no one putting a stop to this.

@Alien
Even if she finds the jewellery in the window of a pawnshop, there is little she can do except pawn it out or buy it back. For openers, the mother didn't file a report to the police, so it doesn't even count as stolen. Second, the pawnshopper who took it in will plead that he did so in good faith, and there is sh*t-all anyone can do to prove otherwise. It's worth a try anyway, but the woman HAS to file a police report.

ANNIES? Again with the mamby-pamby, siding-with-the-abuser trip? The sister is "trying to protect her children"? The kids are stealing, committing fraud and abusing an elder. The sister is a FULL ACCOMPLICE, and you're going, oh poo-poo, ba-a-a-ad girl! I'm gonna be sick.

LW2-
Staying away from these people is the only way you can propect yourself, but it won't do anything to protect your marriage. Every time your husband spends time with them, they will undermine you, and it seems he is more than willing to listen. Of course you cannot come between him and his family, but it would appear that he is still tied with the apron strings to the choking point, and that he never really understood the full meaning of "I do". Unless he finds the courage to finally find his balls under the remnants of the umbilical cord, I don't see much hope for your marriage. As I'm sure Michelle can attest.

I have caught my huband of over 33 years cheating twice now with the same woman. It sickens me that he wants to have sex with her and me. Financially, I'm in no sshape to do anythimg but to stay with him as I'm unemployed and going to nursin school. I can't forgive the fact that he has cheated and cannot afford to leave him . Are there any support groups out there that would be helpful in this situation. I want to leave him but don't want to loose my house and everything we have worked for for 33+ years. In limbo in Kansas

Re: donna

I Googled "cheated on support groups kansas" and got pages of it worth, the first one was:
http: / / www. experienceproject. com / groups / Have-Been-Cheated-On / 37562 (take out the spaces)

First - he is repentant, or is this something that will keep happening again and again?

If no, marriages can survive the odd one-night stand when it is not representative of the rest of the marriage. If yes, than what *I* would tell you is to bide your time. Finish school, get a job and then go see a lawyer to see if you can kick HIM out - after all, he's the one in the wrong.

@ donna

Well, you have to ask yourself what you're willing to live with. If your husband's having sex with another woman takes some pressure off of you and he still treats you like royalty, then perhaps you're willing to look the other way, at least for the time being. But, if as you contend, the thought of him having sex with another woman and you sickens you, then you already know what you need to do. Staying with a man for financial reasons isn't fair to you or him. After 33 years of marriage, you've contributed significantly to this man's life and happiness and any divorce court worth its salt will reward you accordingly. That your husband cheated on you means he needs to pay for his discretions. My advice to you is to simply confront your husband head on with what you know and ask him point blank what he wants out of your marriage. If he tells you that he loves you and wants to stay with you, then the two of you need marriage counseling to figure out why he's inclined to stray to the other woman. If he tells you he loves you but enjoys sex with this other woman for whatever reason, then you need to reflect on why that is. Communication is the key here. Whatever you decide, the old Anne Landers question of are you better off with or without him applies. My guess is that you're better off without him since you're already on your way to independence. Maybe the two of you have grown apart and are simply living together out of convenience. Now it's up to you to figure out how to execute your exit while maintaining your current quality of life and retaining your dignity and self-respect too. My money is on you seeing a counselor on your own to sort out the implications of your husband's infidelity and then a lawyer to help you figure out how to extricate yourself from the marriage with minimal damage to all that you've worked hard for. I mentioned this the other day and I'll mention it again. Don't get mad...get everything! Good luck!

Donna, I can't answer whether you should stay or go -- that's something you need to answer for yourself.

But DON'T tip your hand just yet by "confronting" your husband with what you know or by forcing him to choose between you . Not before you've sorted this through in your mind, perhaps with the help of that support group, and gotten some advice on what lawyer to see and had an initial consult (which I believe are usually free).

Tipping your hand know could allow him time to clean out your joint accounts and hide the cash, leaving you with half of zilch. Too many wives are too trusting in this instance, and too often husbands are tempted to hide assets, leading to a less-than-equitable division of them, because "I earned it" -- regardless of what a court might say.

I'd suggest that you might want to make a list of savings accounts, any investments (including retirement funds), properties and equity and the amounts in each. You might want to keep an eye on those balances, as well, while you figure out your next step.

Getting this info certainly doesn't require you to follow through with a divorce, but it does help protect you financially should that be the choice you ultimately make.

LW2: The worst thing to tell insenstive people is "you hurt my feelings!" like a five-year-old. Grownups deal with reality: what did they actualluy say? Is is true? Then what can you learn from it. If it isn't true, act in a way that shows its untruth. You can never win an argument about feelings-yours are yours and theirs are theirs, a reasonable person chooses their battles with facts. You may just have to say "I'm sorry you feel that way, but there is nothing I can do about it." and walk away. In dealing with my unreasonable inlaws, I learnd to stay what I had to say calmly and reasonably, and shut up. Often I'd hear them quoting me weeks later to someone else!

Donna:

I don't particularly like the way Chris put what he had to say, but agree that you are entitled to financial assistance from your husband if you should decide to leave him.

I realize that you feel financially stressed right now. You are doing something incredibly admirable in getting your nursing degree and that's WONDERFUL. You ask for help with support groups: well, you have one here if you want one, but I would also strongly urge you to call Social Services (2-1-1 in most states is a good place to start, if not in Kansas, call social services listed in your phone book) and ask for low or no cost legal assistance so you can explore your options. If you are unemployed and still collecting benefits, you can also contact the people at UE (they won't be able to help you directly, but should be able to point you in the right direction). When you talk to them, talk to them as if you are already leaving.

if you are a member of a church, now is the time to loop a trusted clergy into your confidence. Notice I said TRUSTED. In my church, there is a strong marriage ministry for these types of situations: once it is determined that the marriage is beyond repair, the church has been known to assist with legal assistance and relocation costs. True story from my church: one member's wife was messing around on him and finally left him for another man (also known to do drugs). The church intervened at the husband's request and through counseling they reconciled. Two months later, she moved back out of the house (they have 3 children under 7 as well) and in with the boyfriend Again, the church intervened, she "repented" and moved back into the home AGAIN. Third time it happened, the church stepped back in, moved the entire family to a new home, and paid for the husband's legal fees to divorce his wife and to limit her access to the children (she now had supervised visits). My point: your church could be a resource for you as well.

Finally, and I mean this from the bottom of my soul, please be good to yourself right now. Having your man cheat on you is an ugly ugly thing and affects a woman's self esteem and shatters her trust. As for him wanting to have sex with both you and his latest chickiepoo? Well, of COURSE he does, honey! He's a DOG. And I can tell you want out, you just need someone to turn the light on in the next room so you can walk out of the darkness. Come back here and let us know how you are doing. Sometimes (SOMETIMES) online "friends" can be just as supportive as real life ones. We have all answered you because we want to help. Bless you sweetie. Be good to yourself.