Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1-
I would go back to each and every one of these f*ckers with the print-out of the results and I would shove it in their faces. And they call themselves doctors? It's no thanks to them that you're still alive!

LW2-
"How can I tactfully tell my family"
You can't, because you've tried already, many times, and you might as well be blowing in a fiddle. Sorry, but you'll have to stop being tactful and start being blunt.

If you suggest a one-person gift and are ignored, then tell them outright not to give you anything because you're in no position to reciprocate and are still ignored, then just accept the gift graciously. If there is ANY comment about you coming empty-handed, then give it back and tell them this is your gift to them. Talk about stubbornly hard-headed!

LW3-
"This once sweet man became so nasty that we dreaded all contact."
You mean, this man who once successfully pretended to be nice. He was never nice, he was just sufficiently motivated somehow to put a clamp on it. Evidently, he no longer is, and you're seeing the true him. Sad that some people insist on confusing being blunt with being mean-spirited and vicious.

LW3: Make sure you check into what medications are being used. Many can be held in question for behaviors. Even tho my m-i-l was always a bit to deal with, because of multiple myloma (she agreed to treatment without talking to us) she was started on steroid treatment. Eventually the doctors WE talked to said she would never die of it, but of the complications of the medication. Sure enf said--it created a diabetic condition, congestive heart failure, reinforced dementia that was a toe hold anyway, and it all made for agitation and combativeness, complicating memory.
We had to fight long a hard for months to get that med off. Oh, they had stuck her on psychotrophic meds FOR THE BEHAVIORS, which entangled the other things even more. At this point she was not capable of decisions but the dr she had seen would not take our POA as the right to stop medication. Lots of hoops, etc to jump through, put the nursing home in the middle of devoid in family request or doctors orders.
And medication just can't be stopped--the wean down. Well, in a healthy person, yes,many can. But she ended up monthly in the hospital for blood and to vacation the meds. Finally got a doctor who was not her regular and HE SAID enough was enough. And we entered her to hospice.
Our decision would not have been the myltiple myloma medication from 4 years prior. But m-i-l would ask if I was trying to kill her. The apparent answer is not always the best.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LW2: We jockey for dates not to complicate all the extended families. This year the HUGE family one is Dec 25. Our immediate family is 26th. It is your choice if you give gifts. My sister has her family at her place on the 23th for their gifting/supper. When many starting having job issues, etc. we knew the name drawing was coming to a halt. I buy for sister, nieces with family--this year it was a 30 pk of popcorn. For the great nephews, a family gift--pizza certificates or bowling. Baby boy G G nephews got onsies/TShirts. Found out got another new one yesterday, until they send an email announcing it--I will wait with the gift. Since I mostly have nephews, food works great. We have a radio station with gift auctions up to half price on, so I buy those and gift them. Anywhere from $5--10 values--depending on a single person family or multi might get 2 certificates. Also for adults a complete car wash/detail for $10 instead of $20 is good. But I work this into my budget weekly when the auction is held. Lots of old lonely friends who a meal or two at a cafe is welcome (instead of fast food places.) Our town has several little niche in the wall eateries.
I give gifts to those my heart says to. Doesn't have to be everyone.
My mom this year is getting a Co2 detector, new smoke alarms, a hard of hearing phone set, besides a few other things like shampoo, facial cream, etc she would not buy on her income but loves to open those gifts--useable stuff. All my kids got new CO2 detectors too. Since they 'expire in about 7 years of use', we can sure use the updates.
For grandchildren, mom said no toys. Fine. SO I buy material to sew outfits. Maybe new shirt to go with new jumper, etc. I listen to when my kids say BOY DO I NEED NEW SHOES/BOOTS, etc. and can get a certificate for the place that handles them. My kids feet are large--size 12/13, so prefer them to pick out style of a CAT boot for work. All need steel toe.
Gotta get to bed. Finished getting Christmas turkey cooked and into freezer in tupperware. Just need to dump broth and meat into crock pots on day of and ready. My son said NO LUTEFISK at his house, so those of us who eat that will do so later. Lefse is a given. And Sotsuppe. Got all made and ready in freezer.
LW1: YEP. Friend just lost he father to breast cancer. i have fibromyaliga which produces the sore spots all the time. So when suspecious mamograms are found, biopsy is what I get. Not fun to have someone drilling for oil on an empty oil range. So, don't forget, make your yearly appt. There are SAGE funds out there for those whose insurance does not cover any or all of it. Ask your clinic. Never let affording a mamogram the reason not to get one. Chemo is expensive too. Stop it before it starts.
See you in the am. Peace out.

LW1>>>Back in September my mother had a lot of chest and back pain. One doctor told her to just take some Advil! It took awhile for her to get the right kind of help, and she even went to the ER. A couple weeks later she was diagnosed with small lung cancer, and she died exactly 3 weeks after being diagnosed!

LW1 - I'm glad you fought back and insisted on an examination. But don't assume that your current treatment is adequate. It may be, but given the incompetence of your doctor, I would stay on top of it. If you're being treated by the same doctor who scoffed at you the first time, I would recommend switching doctors immediately.

The reason so many people are vulnerable to horrific misdiagnoses and their consequences, is that we are socialized to blindly "trust" doctors. I would say rather than trusting them, it's better to regard them as your employees. You are hiring them to do a job (diagnose the condition of your health, and suggest a treatment). Some, perhaps most, of them are intelligent and well-meaning, but many are barely competent. I wouldn't recommend taking an arrogant or condescending attitude toward your doctor, but I would develop an attitude of skepticism toward literally everything they say, at all times. Misdiagnosis and medical malpractice are among the leading causes of deaths in this country.

When I was six years old, my mother was in a car accident. Afterwards she went to a clinic and complained to the doctor that she was in pain. He dismissed her complaint and tried to send her home. He told her she's be better in the morning, it was all her imagination.

Thankfully my father was there and stood up for her. He told the doctor forcefully that Mother had born three children and that she knew what pain was... and that if she said she was in pain, that they had damned well better take it seriously. There was no other clinic in the area, so my father rushed her to an airport and flew her to a clinic in a larger town two hours away. There, they discovered that her abdomen had been perforated by a part of the steering mechanism that had broken free in the crash, an extremely small puncture invisible from the outside, and that she was bleeding to death internally. If she had taken the first doctor's advice, she would have been dead within hours. As it was, they barely caught the bleeding in time. It was a lesson none of us have ever forgotten.

To add to yesterday's LW1 discussion, I just wanted to mention that today I bought each of my four young cousins a $25 gift card for Kiva.org. They can each pick out to whom they would like to lend their $25 and someday they can have that $25 back as money or re-lend it. It cost me less than $100 to do all my Christmas shopping (no adults in our family get gifts) because I had some credit in my kiva account from a previous loan. Not too bad for holiday shopping!

LW1-Talk to a lawyer who specializes in medical malpractice. You can collect the cost of your cancer treatment if you sue. The doctor overlooked a clear and present danger that ended up turning into cancer, and that indicates gross negligence. Even if you don't exactly break the bank from the lawsuit, you can still have the MD's license suspended for a while.
After what happened to Michael Jackson, we need to start holding physicians accountable when they screw up.

LW1: Please watch the movie Forks Over Knives, it's streaming on Netflix. And pick up a copy of the book The China Study, by T. Colin Campbell, PhD. Good for your for standing your ground and good luck going forward.

Lisa--Usually you are funny, entertaining, thought-provoking, and spot on. Today, however, you are vulgar, spiteful, and just downright evil. I suggest you reread your comments to LW3 and replace "he" with "Me/I", because you realize the chances that ANY letter writer has of seeing these comments are pretty small, right? I didn't know about this interface until about maybe a year ago, so all I ever saw was what I read in my local newspaper. I think this forum is truly just a minute fraction of all the readers of any of these columns.

Hope your day is better tomorrow!

Re: sarah morrow
I would suggest the Reagan approach to doctors - "Trust, but check". Interesting that the patients who are poo-pooed for their pains are often women. I notice that it's only once your father got stinkingly mad that something was done.

@chaz
You have no reason to attack me like you just did. While I admit I did not consider the possibility of medication side-effects, I was much reminded of "usually very nice" people who turn into freaks the minute they're a bit tipsy. Alcohol doesn't put the nasty into people, it just removes the veneer of inhibition for their true nature to shine. Unfortunately, there are some older people who go through exactly the same process, and decide that now that they're old, they no longer need to be decent. Many of us here personally know people like that, and we've seen several letters to this effect. Stating this fact doesn't make me evil - this was totally uncalled for.

Re: chaz

Chaz, I agree. Her comment about the elderly was mean-spirited, especially in view of the fact that mini-strokes, side effects of meds, heart failure, depression, etc. can have such an impact on anyone's personality. It's so painful to have to deal with the "new" personality, and to miss the real mom/dad that you feel "is in there somewhere".

LW1 - Definitely see an attorney who specializes in medical malpractice. The doctor(s) who refused to test you and/or treat you are legally liable to you financially for pain and suffering And medical expenses - at a minimum. They should have their licenses revoked or be required to attend "practice update" classes that remind them of what the "Standard of Care" is and their obligations to their patients. Any attorney worth his/her salt will take the case on a contingency basis and your costs would come out of (and be factored into) the settlement/award you receive.

Re: chaz

Just wanted to point out that Lisa is a diferent poster than Lise B.

I agree her post was very unkind, but we do have LWs that do read BTL (see yesterday's comment section). Which makes Lise's comments all the more sad. I hope the LW is NOT reading today, as angoradeb mentions, it's hard enough to watch your loved ones change so drastically because of meds or dementia, but then to have their character slammed by someone who doesn't know them at all, not even a letter to go on... well, that's just beyond inappropriate and borders on inhumane in my book.

Re: chaz

"Lisa--Usually you are funny, entertaining, thought-provoking, and spot on. Today, however, you are vulgar, spiteful, and just downright evil."

Thank you, chaz. You took the words right out of my mouth. I rarely find Lise's comments to be understanding or helpful, rather, her judgmental and agressive tone attempts to pass itself off as "matter of fact" but instead is usually mean-spirited and hostile toward any modicum of compassion for the human condition.

addendum to last post: "not even a letter to go on" should be "not even a diagnosis to go on".

Sorry for the confusion!

LW2- I have four brothers, a sister, four in-laws, 6 nieces and a nephew. Finally we decided to try to reign in the holiday present budget. Since we are so far-flung, we had our celebration on Thanksgiving weekend. All of the kids get a present of $15-$20 value. But this year the adults put in a gift for Dirty Santa. We had a $20 limit. Oh my gosh...it was so much fun! We had booze, lottery tickets, homemade cookies from Grandmother's secret recipe, cozy throws, handy gadgets, Tervis tumblers (I love those things...I had to steal mine to come home with it!), funny t-shirts, gift cards, etc. Anyway, you could buy things on sale, you didn't actually have to spend $20, it just needed to be an approximate value. Worth considering for next year! We will certainly do it again!

Lise reminds me of that Carly Simon song...anyone hear it playing in the back of your mind? You're so vain...You probably think this song is about you, don't you?

She can't seem to get through one post without vulgar words and jumping to conclusions. No worries, Lise, you are really amusing, and you do make some good points when you don't go completely off the rails.

Re: chiquitabanana

Well said!

LW2--"The holidays have become a royal pain, but we love going to the Christmas plays, family events and attending church." Then by all means enjoy the Christmas plays, family events and your church! The only power your family has over you is the power YOU give them. Why do you let yourself be guilted into buy gifts you can't afford or putting up with in-fighting or drama you cannot stand? If the holiday dinner is hijacked by a drama queen who feels the need to dictate gifts or other nonsense, you simply send your regrets and go elsewhere. Or, you simply but firmly say something along the lines of "Wow Stella, it's nice that you're going all out and buying everyone a gift. I'm bringing homemade baked goods in lieu of gifts this year." The holidays are supposed to be a time of fun and frivolity, warm and lighthearted. If they're not then you're doing something wrong.

re Lise- Lets not have a pile on Lise, please. Her first post regarding LW3 was less than sensitive and she has acknowledged that she overlooked some very important aspects of aging that can alter the personality of an elderly person. I can understand why anyone who is dealing with an aged parent or who has in the past would be offended by the initial comment but since we are all so keen on compassion for the human condition, let's show the same regard on this forum.

I have been reading and posting on Annies for a long time now and I have seen and been a part of some nasty pile ons. I have never once come away from one feeling good about such exchanges and I don't think most people would. Everyone gets dirty in such events - not just the "target". I hope we will all just go back to the letters and move on from this off-topic discussion.

Re: Chris

OK: get out the banners because I agree with Chris twice in one week!

My thought with LW2 was just about the same as yours. We ALLOW people to manipulate us into doing things at Chrisfmas (and other times), but that doesn't mean someone is holding a gun to your head and making you do it. we are all free agents and can stop the insanity at any time.

In my family, I pretty much have stopped doing things with the family at large because we are scattered about, and only go to "required" functions (milestone birthdays, weddings, funerals) because my daughter and i have our own traditions that we enjoy very much. If your family traditions are stressing you out, then cut the traditions out you don't like! So simple.

PS: Don't expect the family to go along with you if you do this. they will talk about you behind your back, but in the long run I guarantee you if you stick to your guns they will respect you and probably other people will follow suit.

Re: Roger
How on earth can you compare Michael Jackson's situation with the LW??? A wealthy drug addict with a concierge physician on payroll (and whose addictions essentially killed him with the help of many enablers) is not the same as a patient who told their physician about a serious medical symptom and was ignored.

@ nanchan

Wow! I think we should play the lottery today!! :-)

Re: sharnee
While it is true that I did not take into consideration the possible effects of medication or stroke, dementia, etc (and I apologise for the misunderstanding to the people for whom this is a factor), there have been people writing in in the past about some elderlies who had suddenly decided to remove all filters, with many more examples being supplied BTL. One of them I specifically remember stating the woman had been tested and there was no early dementia or medication possibly causing this. And we all know people who turn into "different" people under the influence of alcohol. This is the kind of people I was referring to.

@Chaz, angorabed, nanchan, chiquitabanana, Carly O
Ove vey, some of the names I'm being called here... And I'm the one who's all that? Hi, kettles!

You will notice I am NOT replying in (un)kind.

Any excuse to pile on Lise, right?

I didn't see anything hateful or spiteful about her post regarding LW3's father. She merely stated that perhaps he was always unpleasant and mean, and simply wasn't hiding it anymore. The LW herself seems to be saying this is the case:

"...we noticed that as relatives aged, some of them lost their emotional filters. They became contrary, mean-spirited and downright rude. Cruel words that used to be said behind our backs were now being voiced to our faces."

She states that her FIL used to be sweet, but maybe he was just acting that way. Of course, there could be other causes for his sudden change in behavior: side effects from meds, the onset of dementia, etc. But the loss of his 'emotional filter', as the LW states, is also a very real possibility.

Re: sarah morrow

That happened to my grandmother many times. She had a stomach disorder for 30 years that caused her to vomit after almost every single meal. She went to doctor after doctor and was called anorexic, told she was lying, it was all in her head, etc. One doctor even took the liberty of calling my grandfather and saying that he should keep better control of his wife!

About 7 years ago she went into the hospital for chest pain. Turns out it was displaced pain from her abdomen and her disorder is not only very real but easy to diagnose, and is easily treatable with surgery. Now, she can eat whatever she wants. Definitely advocate for yourself! It makes me SO angry to think she was treated this way. Ugh.

Re: AgLee16

Doctors have a tendency to say it's all in the head the minute they don't know what it is. They used to say the same thing about asthma. And I have heard from many women in my entourage that they get poo-pood when they complain about something that is statistically more of a male problem, such as a heart conditions, or something that is age-related, like stress incontinence... I have a friend who had to do the rounds of half a dozen doctors before she found one who didn't have the "what do you expect, you're getting old" attitude. Women doctors were no better.

I'm glad that your grandmother finally got the help she needed, but the idea that she suffered for 30 YEARS because of this couldn't-care-less, la-de-da attitude makes me want to spit nails. She and your grandfather should go back to each and every one of these asinine assholes and spit in the faces.

I am frankly shocked and appalled that more people aren't up in arms about the completely un-American attitude displayed by LW2, by the complete disinterest in following age-old Christmas traditions.

When the 3 wise men came to the manger, did they bring hugs, more special time with loved ones, or the "gift" of volunteering? Heck no! They brought precious metals and scented oils and perfumes!

Christmas has always been about the bling, people!

Sheesh. Why celebrate the holiday at all if you aren't willing to put a 3rd mortgage on the house in order to finance extravagant gift-giving? Otherwise Christmas just becomes a day about peace and goodwill towards mankind or some crap like that.

@ Lise
I still luv ya.

Everyone has their own opinion, Lise has hers, everyone get off her tail.

Christmas is coming soon and it doesn't mean that we have to put on our good behavior, we should be doing that year round. Let there be PEACE on Earth and Goodwill towards men, all the time !!

LW1 - Thank you for your message today. I've seen more than one life made better or outright saved because of persistence like yours. If someone pursues a concern and it turns out to be nothing, there's no reason to be embarrassed. It's part of self-care, IMHO.

More than one doctor has reassured me they are more than happy to check out a lump, a pain, a symptom, etc. To them, if it is nothing, the peace of mind they can offer in return is still worth the time they took to look it over... and if it is something that means they can make it better and perhaps save a life. Paying attention to red flags and listening to your body is the best thing you can do for yourself.

LW2 - My ILs had a materialistic bent to Christmas that was outrageous. Their throwing in Chia pets and Barney Miller shirt/tie ensembles to meet some gift quota they seemed to have for everyone cheapened it all the more. It didn't help when one or more of them would throw some hissy fit Christmas Eve - the last drama-fest we tolerated, it took us following through on the profanity-laced directive not to come to even get an apology.

This will be our second Christmas without them... aaaaand we're not missing it. No, wait... ummm, nope, don't miss it.

LW3 - I'm sorry your FIL became mean and vicious. We all have to do what's right for ourselves - some people can't have any contact at all because the situation is just too dangerous, for others, what you're doing is great, and for yet others, some other alternative can present itself.

From the way you worded your letter it sounds like your FIL has passed away? If so please accept my condolences. I'm glad you were able to come away from your experience with some fond memories nonetheless.

@Gwen
Danke schon, und Ich mag dich!

Hold on a minute. I am truly surprised at the attacking of Lise. I can't believe the lack of response to the portion of the letter that reads "Cruel words that used to be said behind our backs were now being voiced to our faces." That doesn't sound like completely sweet, innocent people suffering from age, that sounds like people acting like the jerks they are. Lise said it better than I, but I'll call a spade a spade. There is nothing I detest more than a two-faced person

LW1 - I'm glad you wouldn't give up until you found a doctor to take you seriously. I, too, would go back to the other doctors and show them your results. Perhaps next time they'll listen to patients more carefully.

A friend of mine was having female problems at 19 years old. Her symptoms were the same as cervical cancer so she went to her doctor. He told her she was too young to have cervical cancer and to go home. Luckily she went to another doctor and sure enough, she had cervical cancer. She went back to her original doctor to show him the results and he was very apologetic to her. She told him, "Just don't do it to another woman. If I believed you, I would've gone undiagnosed until it was too late!"

LW2 - Just because they want to buy tons of gifts doesn't mean you have to, as well. Buy what you want and what you can afford and that's it. If they get mad, too bad. They'll get over it. And if they don't, oh well! And if you can't stand having to deal with the dinner fight, then I say stay home with your family (husband and kids if you have them) and have a nice, peaceful Christmas dinner.

I see a nurse practitioner myself; some years ago I had a few attacks and instinctively I thought it was a gall bladder problem. I finally went to see him and he poked around and stuff and thought it was acid reflux.

BUT, he went ahead and ordered an ultrasound without me having to ask and whaddayaknow, it was gallstones. Actually, the tiny ones that are most dangerous cause they can move along to a duct that comes or goes from your pancreas and can kill you.

So he handled that just right and I never did a "I told you so" on him cause I saw no reason to. But if your dr is pigheaded, ABSOLUTELY go back and show him/her they were wrong! We put our health and lives in their hands, they need to know when they are mistaken!

A local doctor was sued by a former patient for just this very reason, she thought she had breast cancer and he didn't and she found out later from another doctor that she did.

@ackgirl, yikes, I'll fully admit I missed that part of the letter as well.

Lise, looks like you got it right and your detractors didn't read the letter as closely as you or ackgirl did.

@ackgirl and Mike H. - I read that part of the letter, but as it was in the paragraph before LW3 mentioned her FIL, it appeared to me that the comment regarding saying things behind their backs was in reference to other people, not the FIL. That does not negate Lise's point, which was valid - but phrased a little harshly. Also, while entirely possible - the detractors also have a point that Lise's comment could be perceived as hurtful by someone who loves someone who is in the same predicament as the FIL. I guess I am saying that I see both sides of this coin; but the attacks on Lise were uncalled for and frankly it is getting to be a bit tiresome. I think that many readers and posters who would like to remain neutral are more likely to be swayed to sympathize with Lise just because people keep launching misiles at her.

Re: ackgirl
THANK you!

@MikeH
It seems my "detractors" can't afford to miss one single opportunity to launch a stink bomb at me, I am not allowed to forget a-ny-thing, otherwise, it's POUNCE, she made a mistake let's GET her, yee-haw!!!

@Sharnee
Yes, I was harsh. And the kind of people I was aiming at deserve it! Although I am turning 60 next month (EEEEK! alREADY?), I don't behave like the kind of elderlies LW3 describes do with friends, business contacts, family, ANYONE. However, I WILL be harsh towards the people who do plenty to to deserve it - such as folk who think being elderly gives them the right to become nasty and vicious towards people who never did them any harm, just because they're mad at the world, don't like the life they've had, and feel they've earned the "right" to get even.

1. Being vicious is not a right anyone ever earns.
2. You never get even when you strike at the wrong target, because the right target remains unaddressed.
3. And the only way to fix a life you don't like is trying to get it in the direction you do like - at any age.

I wish there would be no more personal attacks on ANYBODY at this site! I'm tired of all the name calling and fighting here. I'm probably not the only one who feels this way.

LW2
You have been trying to foment sensible ideas for new, less materialistic, family traditions. Carry on with your intentions and lead by example. They will either see the point and join you, or not. But you should hold your head high and wish them peace, regardless.
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@ Michael post #37

Amen to that. And, all the very best to you for a Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday, Season's Greetings or whatever greetings you would prefer. And, you're one of the few gentlemen BTL, who send out positive posts. What a nice guy !!

Gwen, thank you! You're a very nice person. I hope you're doing well and that you have a great Christmas.

@Mike H. - You gave me the best laugh of the day!!! I so needed that stress-buster - THANKS!