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Code Goo
I'm a 33-year-old nurse in a five-month "friends with benefits" thing with a doctor co-worker. I am only 18 months out of an abusive 10-year relationship and wanted something fun and light. We get along well, but he rarely asks me ahead of time about getting together. I know he has a busy schedule, but this bothers me. He will do anything I ask (give me a ride, buy me a coffee if I work late) but doesn't make kind gestures without being asked and doesn't talk about his feelings or inquire about mine. My biggest issue is that he doesn't compliment me. He once said his friend asked him how he got such a beautiful woman. But that's it. The crazy thing is, he doesn't even possess the qualities I want in a partner! Are my feelings here simply because he's here? Can I learn to separate my feelings from what we really have? — Help, STAT
I bet the doc doesn't have patients show up at whim: "Hi, I was in the neighborhood, and I thought I'd have a physical."
It's understandable that you'd like a little more formal scheduling to your casual sex, but remember that the guy reads X-rays and MRIs, not minds. When you need medical attention — or certain attention from a certain medical professional — you need to make that known, same as you would with a friend: Don't be so available on a moment's notice and also ask him to make advance plans. (Enough with this "Undress and put on a robe; the doctor will be with you shortly.")
Although the reasoning department of your brain keeps telling you that you should be friends with benefits, there you are jonesing for girlfriend benefits (flattery, little prezzies, and all). Anthropologist John Marshall Townsend explains that women evolved an emotional alarm system to read whether a man would be a good provider and to compel them to seek cues of commitment. Some women feel especially emotionally connected to their partner following orgasm, probably due to the release of the bonding hormone oxytocin, although the most conclusive research is on rats and prairie voles, and your ability to send email suggests you are neither. Regardless, Townsend's surveys on casual sex showed that even when women fully intended to use and lose some himbo, many would wake up the next morning and find themselves longing for more from a guy they knew they wanted nothing more from.
An apple a day ... mainly keeps the creditors away from the apple growers. To keep this doctor away, let on that you're longing to use him as a boyfriend instead of just for sex. The thing is, this seems like exactly the right time for you to have exactly the wrong man. Having your sex life staffed up can help you avoid any temptation to get into a relationship, and you can instead figure out and fix whatever led you to be in a 10-year emotionally abusive thing. You may ultimately find casual sex too upsetting, but understanding where your feelings are coming from might help you intellectualize your way out of letting them rule you. Regularly reviewing all the ways this guy's wrong for you is another way to put the meaningless back into meaningless sex. Remember, the only aisle you should be walking down with him is the one between your bed and your dresser. As that jewelry commercial (doesn't) go: "Every kiss begins with K-Y."
World Wide Web Of Lies
Why do men OFFER (as in, announce unasked) that they aren't dating anyone when that's a lie? I'm a busy 30-something woman, meeting men almost exclusively online. A guy will often tell me right away (on the first date) that he isn't seeing anyone. I stumble on the truth by accident on Facebook and what-have-you, lose trust for him, and stop seeing him. — Baffled
The male brain is quick to note that eHarmony could be the ticket to eHarem. Even if a man's looking for "that special somebody," he may be dreaming of a stable of somebodies and feeling a little guilty about it. Or, maybe he's dating a few somebodies but "there's nobody" means "nobody of consequence." Women evolved to seek commitment from men, and men co-evolved to understand that. Sometimes even an okay guy will engage in some duplicity to make the initial sale — waiting to see whether he's into you before he ditches Helga, Svetlana, and Amber. You likewise might consider going on a few more dates to see more of a man's character (or lack thereof) before making your final decision. Then again, maybe the best reason to ditch one of these liars is stupidity: a guy telling you he's all lonesome, he hasn't seen a women in years — just hours after his last date was streamed live on the Internet from some bar.
Got a problem? Write Amy Alkon, 171 Pier Ave, #280, Santa Monica, CA 90405, or email AdviceAmy@aol.com (www.advicegoddess.com). Alkon is the author of "I See Rude People: One Woman's Battle To Beat Some Manners Into Impolite Society."
COPYRIGHT 2012 AMY ALKON
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM
It's Advice Goddess Radio! Amy Alkon answers your questions on love, dating, sex, relationships, and manners. Listen live every Sunday from 7-8 p.m. Pacific time, or download the podcast at the link. The call-in number during the show is 347-326-9761. This week, low-carb pioneers Dr. Michael Eades and Dr. Mary Dan Eades debunk dietary “science” (no such thing as “healthy whole grains”) and tell you how to drop pounds like they’re stones falling off a truck.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon/2012/01/16/advice-goddess-radio-amy-alkon
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Comments
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14 Comments | Post Comment
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First thing LW1 said is she has a FWB, then said she wants kind gestures and to talk about feelings. Maybe men and women have different meanings of the "B" part of that equation. To a guy it means I come over, I bang you, I leave. Crude, I know, but thats what FWB is. Anything more and its not just FWB. What LW1 is describing is sounds more like what she wants out of a boyfriend and a relationship. That isnt what you have, you have a FWB.
For LW2, I've encountered many women who do the same thing, its not just men. Amy nailed it with "there's nobody" means "nobody of consequence." It seems "Im not dating anyone" means "Im casually dating 5 people, any of whom may become my significant other at any time."
Comment: #1
Posted by: TJ
Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:00 AM
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LW1 -- TJ and Amy both have the way of it. What you have is friends with benefits, but apparently what you want is a relationship, no matter how much you pretend to want FWB.
But on the flipside, are you sure you really were friends first? I only ask because a friend -- even a friend who is a co-worker -- will occasionally compliment you, ask how you are doing, occasionally buy you a cup of coffee without asking, etc. It occurs to me that, as far as the doctor is concerned, this isn't even as deep as FWB -- this is, "hey, there's this hot nurse, and she's up for some meaningless sex -- woohoo!" I don't mean to slap at you, I really don't. I just want to point out that if this guy wasn't already complimenting you, asking how you were doing and buying you the occasional cup of coffee without asking BEFORE you two started having sex, then expecting all of that to happen AFTER you have sex in an FWB scenario doesn't make sense. After all, the holly grail of FWB is where two friends have sex without any real change to their friendship.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Lisa
Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:42 AM
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LW1- I agree with TJ and Lisa. You want more from the doctor,but he 's not even willing to say anything good about you. It's time for you to leave the dead end path you're on with the doctor. Look for a man who can see your good qualities and who isn't allergic to compliments.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Michael
Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:28 PM
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Um, you're firends with benefits. What exactly did you expect? You're not dating. You're having casual sex in exchange for the odd cup of coffee and a ride home. He doesn't give you compliments or "make a date" ahead of time because, just as you feel towards him, you do not have the qualities he wants or admires in someone he would actually take out on a real deate. He doesn't express his feelings for you because he has none, and doesn't care what your feelings are towards him, because he has no future plans for you--other than simply getting together for his next booty call with pleasant conversation. It's not so much that you're with the wrong man, but that you're with the wrong relationship. If you want compliments, consideration and feelings, go out and find someone who actually wants to date you, not simply bed you.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Jane
Wed Feb 1, 2012 4:23 AM
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If LW2 "stumbles on the truth by accident on Facebook", to me this means that both LW2 and the other woman are on the guy's FB friends list. Meaning, things are already pretty serious between him and both women. I don't know any guy that would add women to his FB after just one Internet date. Besides, for LW2 to "stumble upon the truth", the guy or the other woman have to post something on his wall that's indicative enough of the truth. I've had something similar happen once, except in my case, I was told that the guy and the woman "used to date a long time ago, but decided to remain friends". Well judging from the posts and photos that this woman kept plastering all over the guy's FB wall, it was pretty clear she had no idea that they were "just friends"! So, my verdict is, seeing multiple people is fine, as long as by seeing the guy means he's had a few online dates with each. But when things have progressed to the point where the woman leaves lovey-dovey posts on his FB wall, and he still claims he isn't seeing anyone -- that's pretty bad.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Goldie
Wed Feb 1, 2012 8:00 AM
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LW2 -- I think part of it is also because the word "dating" has evolved to mean so many different things to different people, especially different generations. When my mother was "dating" it meant that one Friday night she might be out for dinner and a movie with one guy and then could just as easily go to the sock hop with another guy. She wasn't "easy," and she wasn't "whoring around" and she wasn't lying to anyone. Everyone knew that if you were dating, you were probably seeing multiple people on a very casual basis. If you were committed, you were "going steady" and you were boyfriend and girlfriend, and all of your "dates" were with that same person. Today, dating can mean anything from going out with lots of people casually to seeing someone exclusively. So, a guy telling you that he's "not dating anyone" could mean anything from "I'm going out on dates with lots of different people unless/until I find someone worth committing to," to "I'm taking a break from going on dates, period." They aren't necessarily lying to you. Of course, some of them are.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Lisa
Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:28 AM
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LW1-
I don't know what your problem is, but you seem to want to have it both ways - a fun, light relationship that places no demands on you, and a man at your feet at the same time.
Look. This is a FWB thingie. You wanted something light and fun, and something light and fun is exactly what you got - and with a man who is decent and gallant enough to do anything you ask out of him. There is not supposed to be any NEED for him to be courting you with compliments, spontaneous kind gestures and concerns about feelings. There aren't SUPPOSED to be any deep feelings, get it?
People get into abusive relationships and especially stay in them for 10 years for a reason. I think you should release this man and sort yourself out. You are clearly quite confused about a number of essential, basic things. You need to work on yourself before you get yourself involved with a man on any level, as it would appear that even a FWB light relationship is more than you can handle.
P.S.: Be aware that the release by a woman's brain of oxytocin, vasopressin and endorphin (the "love" hormones) during orgasm may lead some women to grow attached over time to a man they're having good sex with. Because of this, many women do not handle FWB well - they fall in love. Perhaps this is what's happening to you. In which case you should run as fast as you can, as he is clearly not going through the same, and you're only setting yourself up for a hearbreak if you stay.
LW2-
That behaviour was always there. Men were liars about not having others for as long as men have existed - way before the Internet made it easier to pretend to be something you're not.
I understand that, for some people, it's possible to develop a completely fictitious alter ego behind the easily anonymous handle of an Internet user. But you would think that, once the people start meeting in person, most people would realise that the charade becomes more difficult to uphold and that you have to start being honest...
Comment: #7
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:32 AM
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LW2 - T J & Lisa
I hadn't thought of that. You're both right.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:39 AM
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Isn't it strange how, when going on first/second dates people will say things they simply do not mean? What is up with that!?
I've been dating off and on for about 5 years, the internet/dating websites almost exclusively (due to not being in places to meet people) and I can't even begin to tell you how many guys I've had the first/second date with who said to me, "I would love to see you again!". "Do you want to go out next weekend?". "Let's go bowling, to a movie, to dinner, to a play, etc. etc," But the minute they drive off, I never hear another word from them again! Poof! They just disappear.
I never ask them, "So! What do you think? Want tp go out again?". I don't want to put them in a position of feeling they they need to comfort me with a lie, instead of disappointing me with the truth.
I'm attractive, "hot" according to most, yet, I only attract the attention of people who don't own a comb, forgot to shave, have more pics of their "boy toys" that of them, or much older men!
And the rare few I do get to speak on a phone with, who ask to meet me, say "Hell Yeh! Let's go out again!" but they never call, text, etc. ever again. I call them only once to inquire about any arrangements or to tell them I had an awesome time, but they never call back.
I can understand exactly what LW2 is talking about. I keep hoping to find a smidgen of integrity and honesty in people on the dating websites, but so far, those qualities don't exist in these people.
Any suggestions?
Comment: #9
Posted by: learninfast
Wed Feb 1, 2012 11:25 AM
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@Lise B -- and one thing to add (on LW1) -- as you said, she says she wanted something light and fun. Well, that was fine for as long as that's what she still wanted, and/or for as long as it continued to be fun. Clearly, it's no longer what she still wants, and it's no longer fun, or she wouldn't be writing to Amy. But you also pointed out something neither TJ nor I commented on, and it's a biggie -- here's a woman who just got out of an abusive relationship that lasted a decade. She doesn't need some ill-fated FWB, she needs to get herself together and figure out why she stayed in that abusive relationship for so long. Seems to me that not only does she deserve better than an abusive relationship, but she also deserves better than FWB (since, clearly, that's not what she really wants if she's honest with herself).
Comment: #10
Posted by: Lisa
Wed Feb 1, 2012 12:57 PM
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Re: learninfast
Since you asked I'll share my opinion. First, many of these may simply be a case of "he's not that into you." It seems most people, male and female, these days communicate that they're not interested by no longer communicating at all. Never hearing from them again is the new "thanks but no thanks." I tried to be honest with someone I dated for a month when she asked where this was going. I said I know she wanted a LTR leading to marriage and while I liked dating her I didn't see that in our future. That led to her crying on my couch for 2 hours. That's probably what guys are trying to avoid.
The second part is that this is something exacerbated by internet dating. As you know, these sites are about $30/month if you do month-to-month. I did it once for a month. I contacted 1 person, emailed for a week, talked for a week, went out next week. Week later, she said she was going to go with 1 guy exclusively. I realized that while gentlemanly this was not a cost or time efficient way of doing internet dating. I then started chatting with about 10 people at once. If this is what your dates are doing, you have to be a bit of the squeaky wheel. If he is chatting with 10+ people, he will gage their interest by who contacts him the most. Look at it this way, he writes to 10-20 people in a week. He doesnt know who the best prospect is. One way to gage that is to see who expresses the most interest in response. He may think if he doesnt hear from you after 1 date that HE is getting the blow off, not the doing doing the blow off. If youre interested, keep writing, ask him out. I know you dont want to appear desperate but dont let a little pride or getting lost in the shuffle of the next 10 people he contacted/contacted him prevent you from getting "the one." Or at least dont stop at 1 phone call or message. Good luck in your search and hope that helps!
Comment: #11
Posted by: TJ
Thu Feb 2, 2012 9:51 AM
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LW1: You obviously have no idea what FWB means. He is behaving in perfect FWB form - the problem is you. You want a relationship. But what you need is therapy. You were in an abusive relationship for a really long time. You obviously have low self esteem and self worth issues. Fix yourself first before dragging a man kicking and screaming into your mess.
LW2: Everyone lies. Big deal. I don't get your question. You've obviously figured out a big tell so why aren't you using it?
Comment: #12
Posted by: Diana
Thu Feb 2, 2012 1:06 PM
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LW1--"I'm a 33-year-old nurse in a five-month "friends with benefits" thing with a doctor co-worker. He will do anything I ask (give me a ride, buy me a coffee if I work late) but doesn't make kind gestures without being asked and doesn't talk about his feelings or inquire about mine." It's obvious that you have no idea what "friends with benefits" actually means. What it means is that you and your doctor co-worker are friends who get together for coffee but also have sex. He doesn't have to ask you about your feelings or shower you with compliments because he's not your boyfriend. Got it? Good! As for him not giving you a heads up before showing up unexpectedly or expecting you to drop everything to service him, you simply need to lay down some ground rules and set some boundaries in that regard. Practice saying "sorry doc, this isn't a good time." Rinse and repeat. As for the rest, if you can't handle the emotional implications (or rather lack thereof) of FWB then I suggest you stop sleeping with your coworker and find yourself an actual boyfriend.
LW2--Welcome to the twenty-first century. Many men, especially those trolling on-line dating sites, will often date multiple partners but they don't necessarily want their partners to know about each other. Ignorance is bliss after all. You can either accept that fact or you can preemptively speak up on the first date and make it clear that you're looking for something exclusive. This may seem off-putting or possessive so don't be surprised if the man gets up to use the restroom and never comes back.
Comment: #13
Posted by: Chris
Sat Feb 4, 2012 11:10 AM
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Re: learninfast
Apart from what T J said, I would hazard to say that perhaps what you project of yourself is not what you should. Even the most balanced and together people are not always aware of how their entourage preceives them. It would be an idea that you perhaps explore this with a professional, and see if there isn't sometihng in your make-up that seems to attract one type more than another. I'm sure this is fixable.
Comment: #14
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sun Feb 5, 2012 1:04 PM
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