creators home
creators.com lifestyle web

Recently

I Get A Kickball Out Of You My boyfriend of three months is 22, and so am I. He tells me he loves me but is horrible about returning texts and calls and following through with dates. (He seems to ditch me if something better comes along.) He also doesn't treat me very well …Read more. Mused And Abused After my girlfriend and I split up, I wrote a creative nonfiction piece about our breakup (changing some identifying details). I published it on a popular blog and linked to it on Facebook. We're back together, and things are great; however, she …Read more. Baby Makes Flee When I married five years ago, I was on the fence about having kids. I thought some parental gene might kick in, but it never did. Now, at 40, I've accepted that a childless marriage is best for us, given my wife's fertility issues and my …Read more. Vulture Capital This woman and I have been friends for a year. She's a free spirit of sorts with zero boundaries. In the time I've known her, she's been married and divorced and then engaged, and now that has ended. She always has another man on the side. (She did …Read more.
more articles

Axing A Girl Out

Share Comment

You overlooked the danger when you replied to the woman who was invited on a hiking date by a man she'd had a crush on. You said that he probably got interested because he saw her with her new boyfriend. Well, he could also have wanted to murder her because of that. Every year, there's news of a female body being found in a remote area — or not found after a disappearance. — Prudent Woman

Recall that this guy spent seven years barely noticing this woman before noticing she had a boyfriend and asking her out. This is not exactly the behavior of a man obsessed, brimming with jealous rage. Chances are, he just thought, "Hmm, I could hit that." (And I very much doubt he meant "over the head with a shovel.")

How likely is it that a date could end in a shallow grave? Well, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, in 2005, 513 women in the U.S. were murdered by "boyfriends" (men they were dating but not married to) and 164 men were murdered by "girlfriends." (And yes, men, too, are victims of domestic violence, much of which goes unreported.) These intimate partner murder stats are a bit unreliable because the FBI doesn't always identify the perp/victim relationship, but even if you include the 2,363 uncategorized murders of women, a woman's chances of being a victim of "dinner and a murder" are seriously small. Divide the 513 number by the population of unmarried American women ages 15 to 64 — 45,752,000, per a 2009 Census Bureau sample — and a woman has an 11 in a million chance of getting offed by her date. (Statistically, she's far more likely to speak Cherokee.)

Of course, those odds of getting murdered really only apply if she's anywoman on anydate with anyman. Unfortunately, partly because people are reluctant to be seen as "blaming the victim," there's a politically correct popular notion that intimate partner violence happens at random, to random victims, kind of like an air conditioner falling out of a high window just as you're underneath walking the dog.

But, various authorities on violence, including personal security expert Gavin de Becker and domestic violence researcher Jacquelyn Campbell, have independently identified very similar coercive, autonomy-limiting behaviors in men who murder their female partners. These behaviors echo the four items from a 1993 Statistics Canada survey that researchers Martin Daly and Margo Wilson noted were strong predictors that a woman will experience serious violence from a male partner: "1. He is jealous and doesn't want you to talk to other men; 2. He tries to limit your contact with family or friends; 3.

He insists on knowing who you are with and where you are at all times; 4. He calls you names to put you down or make you feel bad."

Although government agencies and victim assistance organizations parrot the politically correct warning that intimate partner violence "can happen to anyone," the truth is, certain women are more likely to be victimized, and research shows a stew of contributing social, financial, and cultural factors. (Poverty and prior experience of family violence are two biggies.) Amazingly, there's almost no research showing the particular psychology that might make one more prone to get into (and stay in) a physically violent relationship. (In the scant findings there are, researchers are unable to tease out whether, say, low self-esteem precipitated victimization or was caused by it.) But, it seems likely that women who have low self-worth, who are "pleasers," and who have abandonment issues — women who are more likely to stay in emotionally abusive relationships — are more likely to stay in physically abusive ones. De Becker, in his vast experience with victims and victimizers, concurs, observing in "The Gift of Fear" that "men who cannot let go choose women who cannot say no."

The muzzle of political correctness — intended to protect the feelings of victims — actually makes women more likely to be victimized by stifling discussion about who becomes a victim and how they might prevent it. Interestingly, the bounds of political correctness don't extend to how we portray men. But, demonizing all men as deadly is like demonizing crossing the street because many people die each year at intersections (983 in 2009). A better idea is to look both ways. In relationships, this means assessing your individual risk for victimization and fixing feelings of low self-worth instead of trying to plaster over them with a partner — a partner you may feel compelled to cling to no matter what. In dating, this means engaging your judgment — not going off into the woods with some guy you barely know but also not seeing life as one giant "Law & Order" episode: "Hey, pretty lady...in the mood for a murder-suicide, or would you rather just see a movie?"

Got a problem? Write Amy Alkon, 171 Pier Ave, #280, Santa Monica, CA 90405, or email AdviceAmy@aol.com (www.advicegoddess.com). Alkon is the author of "I See Rude People: One Woman's Battle To Beat Some Manners Into Impolite Society."

COPYRIGHT 2011 AMY ALKON

DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM

It's Advice Goddess Radio! Amy Alkon answers your questions on love, dating, sex, relationships, and manners. Listen live every Sunday from 7-8 p.m. Pacific time, or download the podcast at the link. The call-in number during the show is 347-326-9761. This week, Amy Alkon talks with Dr. Sonja Lyubomirsky, author of “The How of Happiness” (and the least sappy authority on happiness ever), about small steps we can take to be happier and prevent relationship boredom.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/amyalkon/2011/12/26/advice-goddess-radio-amy-alkon


Comments

7 Comments | Post Comment
OK, murder may be a bit dramatic but rape certainly is not. I don't remember the first letter so I'm not sure how well these 2 knew each other but I'm guessing not well enough to go on a hike with him. First dates should *ALWAYS* be in a public place. This is not the time to impress with your unique and creative ideas by going canoeing or hiking or spelunking or any other activity that may put you in a position to rely on the other for your safety and well being. Because frankly you do not know if that person has your safety and well being in their best interest.
Comment: #1
Posted by: It's me
Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:53 AM
Oh great, Amy's description of the type of woman likely to stay in a physically abusive relationship sounds just like me.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Alexandra
Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:42 AM
@It's me -- I do remember the letter, but not word for word or anything like that. Today's letter writer is, IMHO, a bit of a kook. I do generally agree that going for a hike (which presumably is going to take HOURS and is basically out in the middle of nowhere) is an extremely bad first date idea when the two people getting together are basically strangers. But the two people in question have known each other for seven years. Because I don't remember the finer points of the letter, I am not sure how well they knew each other (some people can remain basic strangers for seven years, I suppose), but that was definitely not the crux of the matter. The woman who wrote in had had a crush on the guy for years, but he had never shown any real interest in her. Then, she gets into a relationship with another guy (I want to say they'd been together for maybe nine months or something like that), and she's perfectly happy with this other guy -- and THAT's when her long-time crush suddenly shows an interest in her and asks her if she wants to go on a hike with him. The LW then wrote in to Amy asking if it was OK for her to go for the hike -- since, ostensibly, two people who are just friends can go for a hike without it having to be a date. The bottom line (for me anyway) was that the mere fact that she wasn't sure she should go should be an indication that she shouldn't go. Clearly, the hike was a date, and if she's supposed to be in a monogamous relationship, she shouldn't be dating anyone else. If she wasn't at all concerned about their being an attraction there, she wouldn't have questioned it herself. I always go with the idea that if you aren't comfortable telling your significant other about a person or an outing with a person (be it drinks, lunch, hiking, whatever), then you probably shouldn't go (of course, this also assumes that you are in a happy, healthy relationship with someone who isn't jealous, controlling, etc.).

That's why Amy didn't bring up the potential danger of going on a hike as a first date. And if I'm remembering correctly no on in the BTL brought it up, either -- because obviously that just wasn't the issue. And that's also why Amy made a point of noting how infrequently these scenarios happen. They DO happen, and people should be aware of them and take good common-sense precautions. But that just wasn't the case, here.

And, for as important as I do think it is that people exercise a healthy dose of caution, I do think we've become an increasingly fear-driven and fearful society. We're too busy worrying about stuff that is highly unlikely -- like winding up on a date with an axe murderer -- and not worried enough about stuff that is far more likely to happen to us. Like texting while driving. I'm not saying that winding up on a date with an axe murderer doesn't ever happen, but let's face it, most people are far more likely to get hit by a car.

The original LW's greatest risk was losing her boyfriend because she just had to get the ego boost of going out with her former crush, not finding out that her former crush was an axe murderer who'd been waiting seven long years to ask her out for a hike so he could kill her.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Lisa
Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:22 PM
Thanks for the recap, Lisa -- that was basically how I remembered that letter, too. Those first-date precautions became established for situations like dating services/blind dates/"the gentleman at the next table sent over these drinks with his card". Not for longtime friends, co-workers, "my mother's best friend's son," or "my best friend's brother" situations -- those in which there's some context that offers some protection to each against bad behavior on the part of the other.

I am glad that Amy addressed this mindset. There's a difference between reasonable precautions (not getting in the car with the handsome stranger who bought you six margaritas at the club) and over-the-top hysteria like Prudent Woman's. Exactly what did she think that the original LW would have learned about this man over dinner in a public place that she had not already learned in SEVEN YEARS that would bestow upon him the assurance that he wasn't about to murder her?
Comment: #4
Posted by: hedgehog
Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:06 PM
@hedgehog -- exactly. In addition to this being a problem on the dating scene, I also see it in parenting. There's a lot of understandable fear about predators who target children. But we've gotten so paranoid about it that now we've got the crazy Helicopter Parents who can't let their children do ANYTHING for themselves, even after they're grown up! As a new mom myself, I know this is something I will struggle with: balancing my desire to keep him safe from every danger with the realization that if I go too far and shelter him too much, I will be creating a totally different danger -- that he won't ever be able to fend for himself! I've met college kids whose mothers still call them to wake them up every morning for class. When I asked why they didn't simply get an alarm clock, the moms tell me they just want to make "extra sure" that junior makes it to class. Egad!
Comment: #5
Posted by: Lisa
Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:41 AM
Re: Alexandra
On top of "more likely" not being synonym with 100% sure, that doesn't mean it IS you - all daffodils are flowers, but not all flowers are daffodils.

About the LW, although I will agree that getting murdered on a first date is possible albeit unlikely, that was not what the original letter was about. Lisa and Hedgehog recapped it perfectly so I'll not add anything to it.


Comment: #6
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:31 AM
Dear LW,

You are in bad need of therapy. There is prudent, and there is paranoid. You seem to lean towards the latter. While first dates with people you don't know and have no common acquaintances with should be in public places, where you transport yourself and come with money to pay your expenses if necessary, this does not necessarily apply to first dates with people you and others in your life have known for a long time.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Ariana
Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:44 AM
Already have an account? Log in.
New Account  
Your Name:
Your E-mail:
Your Password:
Confirm Your Password:

Please allow a few minutes for your comment to be posted.

Enter the numbers to the right:  
Creators.com comments policy
Other similar columns
Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar
Annie's Mailbox®
by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar
Ann Landers
Classic Ann Landers
by Ann Landers
Margo Howard
Dear Margo®
by Margo Howard
More
Amy Alkon
May. `12
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
29 30 1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31 1 2
About the author About the author
Write the author Write the author
Printer friendly format Printer friendly format
Email to friend Email to friend
View by Month