Dear Margo: Both my daughter and her boyfriend of four years are 23. My daughter works as a project manager for a health organization, and her boyfriend is a full-time Ph.D. student at a first-rate college in the Boston area. In August, they moved in together and became engaged in early October. The problem is that although he proposed to my daughter, he did so without speaking to my husband or me about his intentions. Now my daughter wants to break off the "engagement" since he still has not come forward to formally ask my husband. It seems to all of us that this young man is lacking integrity or is having "cold feet." He has moved half of his belongings out of the apartment to his family home and left the other half in her apartment. And he hasn't called to schedule a meeting with my husband. Should my daughter break up with this young man and move forward with her life? — Still Waiting in Boston
Dear Still: Might your name be Edith Wharton? I have no wish to offend you, but this business of formally asking for your daughter's hand went out with whalebone corsets. You and your husband seem to have brainwashed your daughter into thinking the young man has to formally "ask for her hand" in order for them to go forward with their plans to be married. You also may have put a monkey wrench into their future together. I can tell you his intentions: When he asked your daughter to marry him, his intentions were to get married and build a life together. If I were you, I would encourage your daughter to consider herself engaged and try to undo the stiff and formal (and I believe mistaken) demand that her beau come round to ask permission. (I am assuming that you already know him, after four years, and that he's not on the 10 Most Wanted list.) Single people these days make their own decision to be married, and then they tell everyone.
— Margo, contemporarily
When Friends Let You Down (at Crate & Barrel)
Dear Margo: Am I justified in being hurt or just throwing myself a pity party? I am 53 years old and never married before now. I had many dates over the years and a few serious relationships. Three years ago, I met a sweet and gentle man who loves me just for being me. We were married in April at a small lakeside ceremony with just him, the minister and me. We wanted it small and simple since we were older and preferred to concentrate on the marriage rather than the wedding.
With that said, only a few friends have so much as sent a card. Some co-workers and a couple of dear friends gave us thoughtful gifts. But the people I consider my closest friends have done nothing. It is now December. Please don't deem me greedy, as it's not the gifts that are at issue. I have thrown bridal showers and baby showers and have been a very thoughtful friend in good times and bad. I am simply hurt. I waited 53 difficult years for this sweetest of men, and I feel slighted. — Heartbroken Lizzie
Dear Heart: OK, you were waiting for him. Could it be that your friends were waiting for a wedding announcement? I agree that close friends, announcement or no, should mark your happiness with a gift or a dinner out, but some people, unless goosed by something written, do not think of sending something. I do not mean to make excuses for those people closest to you who haven't acknowledged your marriage. I am just explaining what I think may have happened. Your feelings are understandable and legitimate, and it's too bad more people aren't more thoughtful. — Margo, realistically
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Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via e-mail to dearmargo@creators.com. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.
COPYRIGHT 2010 MARGO HOWARD
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM
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LW1: Your complaint is absurd. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and add some meat, but it never came. You're bent out of shape because your daughter's fiancee didn't ask for your husband's permission? What were you planning to tell him if he DID come over and ask this? If it was "yes," then the whole exercise was nothing but a formality, and if it was "no," then clearly you expected to wield more power over your daughter's decisions that you ought to be having at her age. Either way, you're wrong. This is especially the case being that the couple is already living together. Frankly, I don't blame the guy for moving half his stuff out, and I also wouldn't blame him for ending the relationship entirely and moving on. Because the worst part is that your daughter apparently agrees with you, and he would have a right to be worried about what other meddling you plan to do in their marriage! She should have patiently explained to you that this "permission" business was indeed a holdover from a long-bygone era. I hope you and your husband kick yourselves good for running a decent guy out of your daughter's life with this nonsense. Geesh, is it still 1912? Did even our grandparents still do this?
Comment: #1
Posted by: Matt
Fri Jan 1, 2010 11:29 AM
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LW2: Your feelings are understandable, but I have a few questions. Did you send out wedding announcements before/after the wedding? Is there even a remote possibility that your friends simply do not know that you've gotten married? Second, if so, is there any possibility that they are miffed at not being invited to the wedding, to come share your happiness? At your age, you're all mature adults, and everyone would (should) understand that your announcement or invitation isn't a gift-grab. You just want your friends to come celebrate with you. Why couldn't you at least throw a small reception for yourselves after returning from the honeymoon?
Comment: #2
Posted by: Matt
Fri Jan 1, 2010 11:33 AM
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When I became engaged at 18, my intended went to my dad and asked for my hand. Of course he didn't need to do this, but it was a sweet gesture. I hadn't even considered it. After all, he was removing me from my family home while still getting a college degree (age 26). My second husband asked, too, but he checked with me. I thought it was a chance for them to look in each other's eyes and talk man-to-man. This time I was 25. It gave my dad the opportunity to offer the ritual "how about going into business with me?," which, fortunately, both declined.
Comment: #3
Posted by: BB
Fri Jan 1, 2010 2:52 PM
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No, it's not "sweet". It's demeaning to women as it implies we are property who need "permission" from men for every facet of our lives.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Pam
Fri Jan 1, 2010 4:30 PM
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Amen Pam!
And if I were this man, I would run away from this "girl" and her foolish parents as quickly as possible. Of she would allow her parents to come between her and her future husband, it is a sign of what his future will hold.
Comment: #5
Posted by: janet
Sun Jan 3, 2010 1:21 PM
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I agree. What will the couple need permission to do next?
Comment: #6
Posted by: Fitness Woman
Wed Jan 6, 2010 7:22 PM
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I see there are some angry women reading this column... This is an old-fashioned respect thing AND CERTAINLY NOTHING TO BE OFFENDED BY. This girl knew what her parents expected. SHE should have told her fiance that this was expected or seemingly mandatory in her family. People who expect their partner to be mindreaders usually end up disappointed...
Comment: #7
Posted by: RyanOnCue
Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:56 AM
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I also did not take offense by it. Some people are very traditional. I want my boyfriend to ask my parents' permission. But it's not really about permission, it's about showing respect for your new in-laws and their traditions (even if they're not yours) and asking their blessing over your families being joined. Would it be better if we dubbed it "asking for the parents' blessing" rather than "permission"? Seems like a silly semantic issue. I will ultimately make my own decisions and my parents respect that, but it also means a lot to me that they adore and respect my husband-to-be. I have a very hard time envisioning marrying a man that my parents disapprove of, though my parents also realize their rightful position as trusted advisors and not dictators of my life. It seems like the couple at issue here have to a have a real heart-to-heart about values and families, and likely communication styles (they're probably not that far apart in reality). Likely most of the perceived hurt could be ameliorated and future misunderstandings can be avoided. After all, if he's not even willing to attempt to understand why your traditions and values are important to you (and those include certain things in relation to your parents), do you really want to marry such an incosiderate, self-centered fellow? I think it goes both ways here.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Lindsey
Tue Mar 9, 2010 6:05 PM
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Did he ask her parents' permission before he moved in with her? If they've been living together a couple months before the engagement, seems a little late to ask for her "hand." It seems as if he's had a lot more than her hand for quite some time. The whole dilemma seems downright silly.....
Comment: #9
Posted by: SunshineStater
Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:18 AM
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LW1: These parents are nuts thinking their daughter should dump someone she'd otherwise gladly marry over this ridiculous "tradition." If the daughter is just as wack in her thinking, she's too immature to get married. The guy has mostly moved out, and they are still expecting him to beg for permission to marry her? He should run. Far. And come for the rest of his stuff.
LW2: People don't feel like they need to send a wedding gift unless they receive an invitation. Even then, gifts aren't really expected unless you RSVP and go to the wedding. She should have predicted that such a private ceremony would have an effect on her wedding gift haul. Now is a good time to concentrate on the marriage and not on the wedding, as she intended to do when she didn't invite anyone to the wedding. If she'd invited them, her friends would probably have come through with gifts. She didn't. They didn't. It's past time to get over this.
Comment: #10
Posted by: LouisaFinnell
Fri Jun 3, 2011 11:05 PM
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