Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

What is with the annies and tolerance for bitchtastic MILs lately?!? These women are not delicate flowers in need of understanding and patience, they are bitches who are playing the family card and getting away with crimes worse than forgetting thank you notes! LW1 put your foot down with your husband and demand he accept his daughter as HIS real daughter because no man would allow his blood child to be treated that way! You do not have a MIL problem you have a husband problem! He has not heeded the counsellor's advice because he has not needed to. Why on earth would you permit such a man to raise your child? Yuck. Tell him he can go home to his wife and is welcome in your home when he's ready to protect his daughter and treat her like she is his daughter.

LW1:
Thats pretty disturbing, that she told a 3 year old child that she was only "a friend", and not a relative, but this kid is 12 years old now, its pretty clear that Granny isn't going to suddenly "grow" into caring (forget loving) this kid, she won't accept her, period.


Best thing, cut her out, this poor kid, might wind up being in for a rude, and hurtful and painful experience, when she sees more of this "grandmother" who won't accept her. I can't image the pain of suffering rejection from a family member over race, and then having your father, still accept that bigot, it would make the pain even worse......Best thing, cut her off, it should have been done years ago.

LW1 - Poor child. Your husband needs to stand up for his child and respect and protect her from his mother. Shame on him for choosing his mommy over his child! I wouldn't stay with a man who chose his adult mother's preferences and disrespected his child.

LW2 - I agree. These folks are adults now and should act like it. If they can't be thoughtful, I wouldn't keep indulging them.

LW3 - Perfect solution! Job well done!

After 12 years, your MIL has had more than enough time to join the human race. Your family is not responsible for teaching her how to behave like a civilized adult, and your husband needs to grow a spine and stand up for his daughter. If your MIL grows up on her own, you can consider whether to forgive her, but in the meantime you should not subject your daughter to another minute of her bigotry.

LW1: I do not know of any racist who has completely changed his or her attitude, barring some major epithany. It seems to be seated in childhood and doesn't age well. You should keep your child from the caustic influence of your M-I-L, and your husband should be backing you up on it. She may or may not accept your child after 12 years if she "gets to know her", but her racist attitude towards others not of her race will not change and your daughter will see it in her actions and words. She is NOT a good influence on your daughter and should be banned from contact with her. The LW should insist that her husband back her up on this decision.

LW1, Your husband needs to stop financially supporting this woman. She has the best of both worlds. She can collect money from you while lamenting now having a grandchild of her 'own blood.' Be glad she told your daughter she was a 'friend.' Friends come and go and it is time for this 'friend' to go. Change the phone number and the locks. Don't let her near your child. She is an abuser -- emotional abuser -- and no child deserves an emotionally abusing granny in her life.
If your husband does not stand with you, change the locks and let him live with the mommy he wants to support.

LW3 BRILLIANT. You go, girl. Have fun.

LW1: Ugh. I feel for you. On some level, it's hard for your husband to completely abandon his mother, but this has gone on for too long without any real improvement on MIL's part.

How is your daughter handling this? At 12, she's old enough to be able to express an opinion, so you're in the best position to judge just how badly grandma's actions have affected her.

Whatever is happening -- it's clear you need to put your foot down and get your husband more on board with the program, and make sure there are consequences for his non-compliance. He can't keep having it both ways; he either has to stand up for his daughter, or leave your home if he chooses his racist mother over his daughter and his wife.

LW2: It's often awkward for younger adults to try to understand how their relationship with grandparents, aunts, and uncles is changing now that they are no longer children. Maybe one or two gentle hints might help them understand, but after that, just stop sending gifts if the lack of thank you notes, or the lack of birthday wishes is so troubling to you.

I think folks have pretty much nailed it on LW1. I too suspect the husband "went along" with the adoption and thus isn't as invested in the child's well-being. He may not be racist like mama, but in terms of maturity and responsibility, the apple is not falling far from the tree.

On LW2: Enough! I'm tired of these whining letters about people not acknowledging gifts and important dates. Either accept that they are going to, or stop sending gifts and cards yourself. You aren't going to change this, but you can change letting it bug you so much. If you want to sit and whimper when Jr. or Betty Lou doesn't thank you for the sweater or the twenty bucks, then you don't understand what my Gram taught us about giving: you give and you don't look back. You don't do it with any expectations but because you want to, and you do it from your heart. The joy of giving is in the giving, not the feedback loop.

Are people rude and inconsiderate when they don't acknowledge a gift or thoughtful gesture? Sure. Is is your mission in life to educate everyone up to your standards of behavior, even people who are not your own children? Good luck with that.

LW1-
You are no longer welcome in her home? Then she shouldn't be welcome in yours either. She's "just a friend"? Sorry, she's not even that - with friends like that, you don't need enemies. She could never "accept a child not of your own blood"? In other words, it's not the child she would "love", but a reflection of her precious self. This woman has no love whatsoever.

It's all very nice to say that your husband should back you up, should stop supporting her, should grow a pair... Except that he isn't, after 12 years is evidently not interested in doing so, and you're the one writing, not him.

For a father to tolerate this kind of treatment towards his own child would indicate that he agrees with the perpetrator. Was this adoption more your idea than his? Was the choice of child more your idea than his? I have a sinking feeling the (rotten) apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Lady, this child you took into your home, you have a responsibility not only to love her, but to protect her from harm. She is being harmed by this woman's toxic prejudices, by her refusal to accept her in the family, AND from your husband's tacit approval. 12 years old? She's been left in harm's way for far too long. Time to woman up, lady. What YOU must do it inform your racist-in-the-closet husband that things will be expected to undergo radical changes if he wants to preserve his family, or this is a deal-breaker.

P.S.: You are no longer welcome in her home? What is she afraid of, that the traces of non-white in your daugher are gonna soil the carpet, that just her breathing is gonna contaminate the air? YRRRRCH.

P.P.S.: I cannot understand why you've put up with this yurunda for 12 years. Out of curiosity, what suddenly decided you to write in?

@wkh
Couldn't agree with you more. Maybe, deep down, they agree with the MIL and the husband too - who knows? Re-yrrrrch.

@Kitty
I had an aunt like that. People are like wine - rare vintages get better with age, cheap plonk turns to vinegar. And unless they're hit by a thunderbolt on the way to Damascus, no, they don't change, except for the worse.

LW2-
"Why is it that the same family members who send out announcements for weddings, births and graduations never bother to send birthday wishes to the same people from whom they expect gifts? "
Because they want the gift but they don't want YOU. Simple.

Just stop sending birthday greetings to people who don't remember you also exist and as for the gifts, one reminder that a Thank You is still lacking and then no nifts. Simple too.

LW3-
Atta girl! I would have l-o-o-o-oved to see the girlfriend's face when she got the delivery, AND Mister Romeo's when he realised he was out in the cold, all alone with the hard mid-life crisis in his pants!

You say ''Attitudes like hers are difficult, but not impossible, to change''. Sometimes they are impossible to change.
My mother died and never accepted her bi-racial grandchildren, and had she lived alot longer, she never would have. She said she did not want to be around the ''filthy things''. They were nasty because they had Black blood in them., as far as she was concerned. So, we had family affairs and never asked her, after so many put downs. She was furious with me for ''letting '' my children marry Blacks, and never forgave me. She is the one who lost out.

Good manners are a matter of TRAINING> A child is not born knowing to say "thank you". My grandma brought me a box of Thank You cards. Showed me how to address and stamp them. Taught me to mention the actual present in the body of the note (before I could write she had me dictate to her while she wrote). She also sent ME thank you notes when ever I did something for her or gave her a gift.I loved getting mail! I learned about "bread and butter" notes too, where you thank your hostess for a meal or an overnight. When I saw the delight these notes caused the recipients I was hooked.
To this day my stepdaughter writes me a thank you note for hosting her, so her dad and mom brought HER up right.

LW1--If your MIL considers herself merely a "friend" of the family when it comes to 'Amanda' then that's the way you and your husband should treat her from now on. That means no more financial support and no more going out of your way trying to get the woman to acknowledge her own granddaughter. You really need to issue an ultimatum to your pansy husband that he levels with his mother or the marriage is in jeopardy. It's clear from MIL's attitude that she's a straight up bigot; as such she never will truly ever acknowledge Amanda as flesh and blood even if she plasters a phony smile on her face and fakes it. Children aren't stupid and I'm sure at twelve years old Amanda knows what's up with her so called grandmother. If MIL intends to spend more time "getting to know" Amanda after moving to your area, supervise closely to ensure the hateful poison lying just beneath the surface doesn't bubble up and affect the child. Good luck!

LW2--"Now that they are all adults, does it not make sense that they would reciprocate?" Actually no. By that point they pretty much consider that annual card and check, which has arrived like clockwork their entire life a constant, like pi. Why would it suddenly occur to people to reciprocate if they never have before? Moreover, I don't know of many people who would appreciate having the fact that they're another year older plastered all over FaceBook. If I were you I would stop obsessing over this; either give gifts and send cards without any strings attached or don't do it all.

LW3--You go girl!

LW1: as the mother of a bi-racial child, I can tell you this situation makes me both mad and frustrated. You are starting this process too late in the game, but need to do some damage control NOW.

First of all, it starts from the moment you know you are having a biracial child (whether natuarally or through adoption). When I was pregnant with my daughter, I made it clear to everyone in my family that if ANYTHING even close to racist was said around my daughter, we would leave. simple. I didn't care if it was positive ("oh, biracial children are so cute!") or negative, it is still racist and demeans my daughter as a human being to be defined by the color of her skin. Having experienced racism MYSELF I was very senstitve to this and to how this would make her feel about herself and when a family member does this, it is extremely damaging to the child's self esteem.

If I was married to your husband, the first time any statement made about my child's ethnicity was made by his mother, I would have walked out the door. No explanation given, if asked just say, I don't like how you talk about my child and that's it. Racists don't usually know they are racist and they never think they are wrong. Expect people to call you name (She's so overly sensitive! What a b@tch!")s for taking this stance, but it never worried me, because my first obligation has always been to raise my daughter to be proud of herself. Racist comments (again, some are clouded in positive language, so you have to be careful) demean the child and should not be tolerated.

If i was in the situation with the MIL currently, I would refuse to have her in the house, refuse to give any financial help and refuse to see her (and not allow my child to either). If you don't accept my kid, you don't accept me. Case closed. In my family, ONE person ONE TIME made a comment about my daughter's ethnicity, and I was out the door. The offender was my father. He later called me to apologize, and I went back to see him again when she was about 2 years old (over a year and a half later, I was mad). At that point, Dad had been chewed out by so many people including one of his best friends, my brothers and sisters, his brothers and sisters, to the point where he knew NOONE would tolerate his racism. Once he knew that, he started to look at my daughter like a kid. He loved kids. He started to play games with her. She taught him Japanese, he taught her German. He ended up being closer to her than almost anyone in the family except my brother and when he died, she was there.
BUT, you have to take a hard stance from the beginning. You do this for your child. It's not always easy. I did have to cut some people out of my life, including my sister in law who is a real piecce of racist work and she's on the Japanese side, so trust me, Americans don't hold the monopoly on racism. When we were in Japan, we wouldn't even allow the word "hafu" (literally translates to half) around her even from birth. she's not HALF anything, she's got TWO citizenships, two (three really) cultures. To call any human half a human is unkind and cruel.

On the flip side, LW, if you are reading, what you need to do NOW, if you haven't already, is educate your daughter about her heritages. Make her PROUD of what and who she is. This helps them out in the Big Bad World where they are exposed to morons who are racist when you are not around. Kids can be cruel, what I taught my daughter to do was to be proud of her identity from day one in order to counteract it. Start with books, museums. If you can afford it, go back to where your daughter's family came from. One member of my business team has a bi-racial child from Korea that he and his wife adopted (both are caucasian) and this summer they took all the kids (they have 4, 3 natural and one adopted) to Korea to learn more about her heritage. They were able to meet with the birth grandmother (this varies per adoption of course), and have maintained correspondence with her through the years so it was a special trip. Another business partner has adopted another bi-racial child (we actually joke it's a requirement to be on the team!) and they have both birth parents stay at the home every six months (they have an open adoption).

SO, review: 1) don't tolerate racism at all, no matter who its from. and 2) educate your child about her unique heritage.

LW2. please Annies, stop with the gift stuff already. I know "tis the season" but give us the gift of giving this tired subject a rest.

LW3: I do not agree that this is a "You GO girl!" moment. If there are children involved, this can be particularly cruel. someone very close to me had his mother do this, she took it a step further and took the kids with her and left them at the mistress's door. this traumatized my friend for his whole life. The LW should have consulted an attorney, allowed the husband to come get his stuff on his own and then moved on with dignity. the problem with the marriage wasn't the girlfriend. it was the HUSBAND. Involving her in this looks good on paper, reads great on a Sunday morning over coffee, but in actuality is not the way to handle this.

Yeah, LW1's husband "needs" to tell his mom what's what, and yeah, his mom needs to learn to be more accepting. Problem is, neither of them have done it, and neither wrote in; LW did. She clearly understands what they "need" to do, or they wouldn't have discussed this with 2 marriage counselors and 2 pastors in 13 years.

I feel for her. It's easy to say "dump him to protect your child." But there are good reasons why she has not. Dumping him means she will have LESS say over how much opportunity MIL has to hurt Amanda and that the divorce may hurt Amanda far more than can a grandma who's never acknowledged that she is one, anyway. And a divorce would mean, in a way, that MIL's dire predictions of disaster from adoption of a biracial baby have won out.

I feel for Amanda's dad, who probably believes with time his mom will come around, and like the Annies, may believe that he's seen signs of thawing that will hasten with opportunity. And who feels a moral obligation to not allow the parent who raised him to adulthood go without medication, food, heat or a chance to say "I was wrong, Son."

I even feel, maybe most of all, for MIL, who boxed herself into a corner and has missed out on what may be her only chance at that delightful title of Grandma, and all that should go with it, all because she wasn't able to get past what she most assuredly was taught as a kid. It sounds to me as if the Annies are right -- that she HAS thawed -- but is having difficulty figuring out how to say that. Unfortunately, with every year that passes, it becomes more difficult. She would never have had to offer an active apology to an 18 month old toddler; she's at the point where she's going to need to say something to Amanda to explain any switch in her behavior.

At some point, I hope she finds the strength to say: "I grew up in a different time, and the wrong, hurtful things I was taught stayed with me far too long. Getting to know you has taught me that what I learned was wrong, and that by not admitting that sooner, I missed out on being your grandma while you were growing up. I am so sorry, Amanda, and if I had the chance to do it over, you bet that even if I lived too far away to go to school with you on Grandparents Day, I'd have invited you to visit for a week at a time, baked cookies with you, watched Disney movies with you, knit you sweaters, told you funny stories about what your dad used to do when he was your age, laughed when you told me the same "knock-knock" joke three times in a row... even nagged you to stand up straight or use your inside voice...and I would have hugged you every chance I got. You deserved a granny like that, Amanda, and you got stuck with me, instead. But I'm living proof that old dogs can learn new tricks -- and if you don't mind helping this old dog learn how to become a grandma, I have here the 12 birthday cards I should have sent you over the years, and I'd love to go bake some cookies with you right now and hear more about [making the basketball team/your trip to Yellowstone/the Twilight books]."

RE LW3: I recently read this and it's helped me tremendously. I hope it helps anyone else who's ever lived through this: "Cheaters aren't happy — at least not for long. Cheaters are chasing happiness, and they never find it for long." Cheaters will never figure out that happiness is not "just around the corner" with someone new; you have to be happy in yourself first. If only I had read this years ago, I could have saved myself a lot of money in lawyers fees and therapy. :)

Re: Ms. Rowena
"You don't do it with any expectations but because you want to, and you do it from your heart. The joy of giving is in the giving, not the feedback loop."
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Yes, but it sure is nice to know your grandchild or other relative has good manners.

LW3 - Way to go!!

LW2. please Annies, stop with the gift stuff already. I know "tis the season" but give us the gift of giving this tired subject a rest.
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Which they might do if people would start showing some class by acknowledging and even (horrors!) thanking those who give them gifts.

LW2: According to Miss Manners, wedding, graduation and birth announcements are just that...announcements. You are under no obligation to provide a gift if all you receive is an announcement. For that matter, you are never under any obligation to provide a gift, even ifyou receive an invitation to a wedding, shower, graduation party, etc. but it is customary to do so. If all you receive is an announcement, it would be nice to send a congratulatory card or note, but that is all you need to do. To equate major events like those to a birthday, which will happen every year as long as you manage to keep breathing, is really not a reasonable comparison. Time to grow up now dear. I realize all families are different, but I am happily surprised when even one of my own siblings remembers to call or send a card on my birthday. I try to do the same for them. But to expect their children to remember all the aunt's and uncle's birthdays is really kind of strange to me. Now Annies.....give us all a holiday gift and declare a moratorium on the whiny.....I didn't get a happy birthday wish/thank you note...at least until the holiday season is over. That issue is so done.

@ nanchan

"I do not agree that this is a "You GO girl!" moment. If there are children involved, this can be particularly cruel."

Considering the LW's husband was 55, and that he was involved with a much younger woman, I think we can safely assume that the LW was around her husband's age and that any children they might have had were most likely already grown and out of the house by the time the LW kicked her husband to the curb. But, you're right, she didn't consult a lawyer so I'll say instead: "You go on with your bad self!"

LSW1 - You've seen marriage counselors and two pastors who all told you the same thing and you didn't do it so now you're here. Did they finally give you the mealy mouthed advice you were hoping for? Keep this bitch away from your daughter and you should have established that on day one. As it is now, make sure Amanda has good communication with you and a decent support system when GrandWizard.....I meand Grandma...treats her like crap.

LW2 - You think you got problems? Check out the letter above and below you.


LW3 - Sweet. I like that. Come sit by me and lets chat.

Re: nanchan
Your friend's mother may have gone one step further by dumping the children as well, and in my opinion, it was one step far too many. Children are not luggage, and I hope she was charged with child abandonment.

As for LW3, no children are mentioned so this is not the same situation. Keep in mind that the girlfriend is not exactly pure as the driven snow here. She knew perfectly well she was dating a married man. That she should be targetted by the wronged wife is part of the package, and I don't see the LW as being out of line here.

Kudos for the way you handle life with your bi-racial child, by the way... I had a friend who was Japanese (she went back to Japan after her divorce) and who was married to an African man. The tales she told me about the racism she encountered from her own people were... well, I start breathing fire just to think of it. No, definitely, Americans do not have a monopoly on racism.

RE: my response to LW3

I still don't think packing someone's bags and throwing them at the mistress, regardless if children were involved or not, is the ADULT way of handling this.

A friend of mine whose WIFE recently left him for another man, threw all of her clothes out of the house and into the front yard of the new boyfriend. their children are in college, and traumatized by this, because now, my friend is being charged with theft. trespassing, and property damage by the wife's and her new boyfriend. This is also affecting his divorce settlement, because the wife has said that he is unstable and is using this instance as an example. She is asking for spousal support and his lawyers have told him that had he bided his time, let her come get her stuff and move on, there would be no way that he could have been held for spousal support. Now HE looks like the freak, although his wife is involved with a drug addict, has been sleeping with this guy for over two years, etc. etc. all because he had to play the self righteous indignant spouse.

It's never the right answer to take the law into your own hands and packing his bags up and shoving them into a mistress's hands SOUNDS funny, but she very well have ended up like my friend did.

No "You get on with your bad self!" from me. I'd say "watch that anger trigger honey because next time it could backfire on YOU."

and Lise, I've met canadians who have said "You Americans are so racist" which is racist (and in the same breath, they will trash the natives up there and talk about how entitled they are) so please understand that I'm not singling out ANY cultural group as being more or less racist than the next. EVERY COUNTRY has racists. The Japanese are no better or worse than any other country.

Re: nanchan
There is a fine line to cross, apparently, which can lead to theft and trespassing charges... which apparently your friend crossed.

LW3 says she packed all his clothing and then had it delivered, we can assume professionally. This doesn't include littering the front yard and the wronged spouse does not show up personally. The ex and her new beau cannot press charges for theft for something that is being delivered, and they cannot accuse the delivery man of trespassing for ringing the doorbell with a manifest in his hand. If your friend had done it that way, it would have been a very different story, I think. He let his self-righteous anger get the best of him and now he's paying for it - too dearly, IMO.

And no, it is not the most, shall we say, level-headed and calm way to handle the situation. But if if doesn't cross that "line", it can be immensely satisfying emotionally and constitute the biggest step in turning the page and moving on.

@nanchan post #23

I never said you did, and I never said they were.

I know I'm late to the party here, but I actually wanted to comment about yesterday's letter, which I only just saw (and I fear if I comment there, no one will see it).

There is a writer named John Cheese on a comedy website called Cracked.com (yes, after the magazine). While he is a "comedy" writer, he has many poignant pieces about his abusive childhood and struggles with alcoholism and poverty through most of his adult life. In fact, it is his writing job for Cracked that finally put him in the middle class.

Anyways, in a piece he wrote about Thanksgiving, he commented that he had not been planning to attend Thanksgiving one year because he had just quit drinking (he is still sober), and he knew there would be alcohol there. His family offered to hold a "dry" Thanksigiving for his benefit, which he accepted. However, he said that once he was there, he could just about FEEL the resentment from most of his relatives because they couldn't drink. As he put it, it seemed like several relatives were practically waiting for him to leave so the "real" party could start. From what he found out later, after he had left (early), the booze was busted out and the "real" party DID start.

My point being, it is often easier said than done to ban alcohol from family events that previously allowed it. Now John Cheese has written in other articles that his family isn't exactly the Cleavers and aren't the most functional people, but I could see it being an issue with many families. Even while wanting to support a person in not drinking, or whatever the case may be, you will find yourself resentful that you cannot partake in certain holiday traditions. Yes, there will be those with secret drinking problems pissed off that they can't get hammered, but there will be plenty of perfectly functional drinkers, who will understand quite rationally why it is better to not have booze at the party, but, as Lise put it yesterday, will be miffed that they can't even have a glass of wine with a holiday meal. Cheese's family wanted to help and support him- but that didn't stop them from being really irked and restless over having a "dry" holiday.

Re: Jers

Good post.

LW1: Contrary to the Annies, I see no silver lining in Racist Granny moving closer. If she sees granddaughter more often, then so be it. But in the meantime, emphasize to your daughter that racist people are not to be tolerated, and they are scum. Say it doesn't matter if they are strangers or relatives - that those attitudes are not acceptable in this day and age. You don't need to point out that Granny is racist, but someday, as she matures, she might come to that conclusion.

Meanwhile, and I feel this is of utmost importance, write your will and designate someone to be godparents to your daughter, someone BESIDES Granny. Should something happen to you and your husband, your daughter will go to one of your parents, and you don't want it to be Granny - she would almost certainly neglect or even abuse your daughter if she were made her primary caretaker. Make sure your own mom, or someone else, is willing to raise her, and get it notarized, signed, lawyered and you will have done your job as good parents.

LW2: A lot of people, myself included at age 39, send birthday wishes ONLY through Facebook. It sends you a reminder so you don't forget. Please remember, that these days, no one has a phone book they write numbers and birthdays in, and not everyone has a wall calendar anymore. Everything is done thru your phone or computer. A Facebook wish is perfectly acceptable as a birthday wish. Get yourselves an account, and put your birthday in there (you don't have to specify the year) and you will see, everyone will wish you a wonderful birthday! They will also wish you Merry Xmas, Happy new Year, and more - it's really nice.

Also, keep in mind that no one knows their aunts and uncles' birthdays. It's almost always the older folks who remember the younger ones' birthdays. Do you know all your older in-laws and aunts and uncles and great-aunts birthdays? Probably not. However, you should be thanked for any gifts you give, and often, that is also done through Facebook.

LW3: You've got guts!

I actually agree with nanchan's take on how to handle the philandering husband. Sure, he left the wife without any dignity -- 'member all my posts about the husband who wants "more desirable women" and his wife no longer fits the bill? That's what's happened in LW3's case apparently, but there is such a thing as "turn the other cheek." LW3, you are more dignified than to leave your husband's dirty clothes at his girlfriend's house. Read Matthew 5:38-42, part of the Sermon on the Mount.

LW1: Don't know what to say, except that apparently, as Lise points out, the 12-year-old girl is not a reflection of her precious self. I don't know, however, if I'd call the husband a closet racist; he's probably trying to maintain a relationship with his mother and overlook this glaring fault. He can maintain a relationship and love her, but he MUST grow a backbone and stand up to his mother.

Re: nanchan
How terrible for your friend as a child to be left on the doorstep of the mistress! Shame on that mother! I, too, at first was thinking, "Woohoo-payback" but after reading your comment agree. Not that I agree it is solely the husband's fault, it is also the girlfriend's. Unless she was totally duped and had no clue (which is unlikely) that this man was married, she could be an innocent victim. But if she was well aware this man was married and was taking up with him, shame on her also!!!

My question for LW1 is, if the MIL is incapable of revising her attitude toward "blood" or racism, would it be enough for her to learn to love her grandchild as as exception? Not an easy question to answer, but it matters. If yes, has that already happened? If not, why not?

LW3
That is certainly a compendious way to get your point across to your spouse. No long drawn-out counselling for you; no forgiveness or clemency. Not even a goodbye note! I guess he was no prize to begin with.
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@LW1: What are the Annies smoking??? This isn't a newborn the grandma is having trouble accepting. She's treated her this way for 12 YEARS!! If she couldn't accept her during the cute baby/toddler stages, it certainly won't happen during her awkward teen years. I'm all for sacrificing in the name of family harmony, but this b*tch doesn't deserve any second chances (or more like 10 or 12 chances). It will only be damaging to the poor young girl. At 12, she's old enough to understand what grandma is saying. What an awful, awful woman.

@LW3: AWESOME

Re: lw3: i don't think this has anything to do w/children....kids aren't even mentioned. I think it was a very strong and confident way to treat a cheating partner. The fact that she easily moved on and is happy is an example to "all". Only we can decide how others can treat us!

Dear Annie,
As has been the case, many times, lately, your advice is spot OFF. Colorado's monster in law isn't going to change because she's moving closer, she's going to use this opportunity to make that poor little girl even more miserable. Bigots don't change as they older, they get worse. What Colorado really needs to do, is inform her mother in law that she is no longer welcome in her house, and if her spineless excuse for a husband refuses to abide by her decision, she needs to move him out, as well.
How do I fugure? Voice of experience. My ex-father in law continuously made racists comments around me, my children, and now, my grandchildren. Every time I stood up to him, I had to listen to a litany of excuses from my ex, which effectively condoned his behavior, in her eyes. I am a Native American. He also did the same thing to a former brother in law, who happened to be Latin American, who got so fed up with his comments that he refused to accompany on visits, and finally divorced father in law's daughter.
The world, and life may be wonderful, but it can be even better when racist jerks like Colorado's mother in law are cut out of the real family picture.

Re: Outcast

"monster in law", hee hee hee ha ha ha LOL I'm borrowing this

@ nanchan

"It's never the right answer to take the law into your own hands..."

And at last, we agree! *angels rejoice*

LW1: people can get over prejudice, but it demands character. I have a friend who married into a multiracial family against her father's wishes--and I noticed that some years later he and the co-grandfather became friends and he doted on the grandchildren. But the father was essentially a good person, and willing to learn.

LW2: Many younger people are not sure if older relatives want to be reminded of birthdays, and may not even think of their elders even having birthdays. Facebook and Geni are a great way around this--

Sorry Salty, but you're wrong. I have an address book that has phone numbers and addresses, and a calendar that has birthdays. I actually have a well trained cell phone that I keep turned off in my purse because I rarely use it, and I would never think to put people's birthdays on it. And as you may have guessed, I don't do facebook. It seems to me that someone seeing your date on facebook and typing in "Hey, have a great birthday" is fine for people you barely know, because that's all it is - a ten second gesture. If I make a point of recording someone's birthday, they're at least important enough to get an actual card with a hand written note. Which one do you think gets thrown out faster?

Re: Maggie Lawrence

Interesting you should say that. Right now, I'm writing my Christmas cards out, every three years or so, I redo my address book at the same time so that I have everything current and neat.

One year, I made a geburtstag calendar (birthday calendar) for my family, including all the family birthdays and anniversaries. I keep mine updated as needed (Facebook actually helps, because I didn't have all my family member's birthdays). My geburtstag calendar I did in Word, printed out onto hard stock paper (very thick), attached photos to and gave to my immediate family as gifts. Mine hangs on the wall in my kitchen and we check it every week, my family members all still have those. When we have new dates (weddings. births) we add those by hand.

Just a gift idea for those of you out there: my brothers and sisters (LARGE family!) and my uncles and aunts have said this was one of the best gifts they got. Ten years on and everybody still has them in their homes. (very cost effective to, if you need help with the printing/binding, go to a local Fedex-Kinkos or a specialized print shop, I got 15 done for a little under 50 bucks.)

Re: partsmom
Yes, people can get over prejudice, but it depends on the reason why they have them. There are two kinds of racists: the virulent ones and the ones by habit.

The ones by habit are the ones who don't really have anything against Blacks (Natives, Latinos, Asians, Catholics, Muslims, gays, women, men, insert hated group), but carry on the stereotypes and prejudices that were passed on by previous generations without questioning. THOSE are the ones who can change their mind with exposure, because they then realise that hey, Blacks (etc etc etc) are people, same as the rest of the world.

The virulent ones are insecure people for whom the difference is an attack on what they are, because they are not sure they are comfortable with what they are, or even that they know what are. The more insecure, the more virulent. And exposure makes it worse, because it exacerbates their acute allergy a little more every time.

Thankfully, the racists-by-habit are far more numerous than the ones carrying burning crosses and wearing pointy hats.

I would say Racist Granny is a virulent one, about 3-4 on a scale of ten - not enough to get the hanging rope out, but enough to be a #$$%?& bitch. Her moving into the neighborhood ain't gonna make her better none. Keep kiddo away from the Racist Witch of the South.

Actually nanchan, that IS a great idea - I was thinking of making one of those for everybody - all siblings and grandchildren and greats this year, but just didn't get started in time. My daughter made one for immediate family last year with birthdays and anniversaries added, also pictures for each month of the people who had occasions on that month. Maybe next year I'll actually get to it.
And it's nice to know I'm not the last homo sapien to actually hand write real Christmas cards and send them through the mail. It was starting to feel like it.

Re: Maggie Lawrence

Thanks! It did take some time. I had to loop in several relatives because the family is so large, and it took about 4 months (!!) to get all the dates together.

Also, I did NOT use personal photos for the months. This is because our family is so big, every month has at least two birthdays/anniversaries and I didn't want anyone to think I was playing favorites. So I used nature photos from a relative who is a professional photographer. I've also seen it done with different cities, animals, even pictures of quilts (that one I just love)... be creative and take your time pulling it together.

Whatever works for your family and is in YOUR personality. As for Christmas cards? Yes, I handwrite about 80 a year. But, I also use FB to send birthday and Christmas wishes... some people I don't have addresses for, and some I wouldn't feel comfortable asking for their addresses from. FB is just another tool, should not replace handwritten cards for some of us. But I don't hold it against anyone who doesn't send a handwritten card. Just their way I figure and any way I can get the message is cool with me :)

Dear annie.
hi. i have a wonderfull sister and a wonderfull cousin. we were all micgreated from micronesia to guam in order to fine a good leaving for our childrens and ourself. They always help me outin one way or another. iam the youngest among us and i also have four kids. Bothe of them are married and have kids too. The problem is when ever i need their help to picked up my children from school because i'am running late from my work they will always asked me why. i always have a good reason for them. i can sometimes feel that they don't want because they will always say ok but i can sense that they don't want or they will said i'am sorry but i don't have enough gas to go pick them up .Annie when they need my help i always help them out. even when they ask me to barrow money i lend it to them but they never return it. I'am not complaining about the mony or what iam just need their help. sometimes they didnt pick up my kids from school so i have to get off work to pick them up. when i ask they say that they forget and another thing is i ask them $50.00 dollers to help me pay for my childrens after school program they said they don't have money but the next day my cousine call me and told me that last evening her and her family went out to eat dinner. i was so hurt about it. sometimes they will go to the beach or out but they always exclute out me and my children but my sister will be calling her sister in law if she and her family want to go to the beach with them. what you thinnk because now i'am considering to stay away from them. ami making a good choice of bad choice. pls i need you'r answer.

Re: seniorynnnayor
The bad news is that you are in the commentary here, which the Annies don't read (as far as we know) and don't answer, so you'll jhave to make do with OUR advice. The good news is that our advice is often better than the Annies, mainly because there are many of us with many different perspectives, and 20 heads certainly are better than two. Also, you get the advice for sure and right away.

For your problem, it would appear that the help is often a one-way street and that they don't particularly appreciate you, for whatever reason, good or bad. Perhaps they are just insensitive users and indifferent to you, perhaps you do something that really annoys them and they want your services and your money, but not you. Whatever the case, I suggest a three-pronged approach:

1. Stop counting on them for anything. Find someone you can pay to pick up your children if there is need (try to be a little more organised and punctual if possible, so that you need as rarely as possible)

2. Don't break your back being of service to them, only do it when it's no hair off your back and you REALLY don't mind never getting anything in return. Don't lend money anymore. Every time they ask, give them an excuse and put the money you would have lent them in a special account, so that YOU have something to fall back on when you're short. Stop trying to borrow.

3. Stop counting on them for your social life. Whatever reason good or bad they're excluding you for, you can't force them to love you and to want your company. Make other friends, develop a hobby or sign up at the gym to meet people, and have activities with your famiily.

If you still want the Annies' advice, click on "Write the Authors" under the archives calendar at the right of the screen, next to the top of the column.

Annies, you are SO way off the mark you should be ashamed of yourselves. The LW should enlist the assistance of the counselor(s)/clergy that she and her husband have been speaking to, and insist to her husband that he can continue to have a relationship with his mother, SEPARATE from you and your daughter. That means she is NO LONGER to be in your house. If he wants to visit her, that's his decision, and if she needs financial assistance, you might still be amenable to it if you think it's reasonable, but this b.s. ends NOW. And personally, if your daughter has any questions, she's 12 now, and can handle some difficult truths about mean spirited people.

Totally agree with Deb. Granny didn't become a racist 12 years ago. LW bears some blame here for her & hubby not figuring out ahead of time how they were going to handle that relationship after bringing a biracial child into the family. Granny isn't going to change now, no matter where she lives. Further, she isn't the only racist in the world who is going to be mean to your daughter so as a parent, you need to help your child deal with the situation and realize racism is other people's problem, not hers. As for granny, I would never let this woman near my daughter if she wasn't going to behave, but that doesn't mean hubby can't have a relationship with his mom.Hubby owes daughter an explanation of why he continues a relationship with someone who doesn't accept her. Note that most parents tell their kids that they will always love them, no matter what they do, and that's a pretty hard sell after dad dumps his own mom out of the family for something she did.

Can we just start out by agreeing that yes, racism is bad?

That said, I don't see where the little girl is "suffering" or that the husband's mom is being actively "mean" to her or making her miserable. If the worst that LW can say about her MIL is "she told Amanda she was a friend, not a relative" and "no birthday card or acknowledgment" -- well, Amanda can't miss what she hasn't known, anymore than I missed my paternal grandfather as anything more than an idea (seeing as he died when my dad was a kid).

It sounds to me as if LW and her husband have done a good job of protecting Amanda. and it sounds to me like MIL is at least keeping a civil tongue in her head and not causing a scene. (It would have been best, of course, if Amanda's father had said, out of Amanda's hearing, "Mother, this is my daughter. Llike it or not, you ARE legally her grandmother...unless you are saying that I am no longer your son?" Maybe he did?)

I'd be curious to know what LW and husband have said about his mother to Amanda -- did they play along with the fiction that this is a family friend, and not Daddy's mother? Did they say, "Amanda, it's nothing you did. Feel sorry for your dad's mom; she's chosen to be an unhappy person, and it makes her life so much more unpleasant than it has to be. This is what happens when people choose to close their minds to new ideas -- remember that, honey."

It's painful when your parent, or your spouse's, isn't the grandparent you want for your kids, especially if you have fond
memories of your own grandparents. You want that relationship for your kid, too. But just because you have a living parent doesn't mean they're capable of playing the role you want them to.

I realize some grandparents never get past this, but I still think there are factors here that favor this particular grandmother's turnaround: it looks to me like she's widowed or divorced, since there's no mention of FIL; this may be her only shot at grandparenting, since LW and husband have helped support her and there's no mention of husband's siblings OR Amanda's siblings; and with Grandma in the same area code as LW, there's every likelihood that peer pressure will shame her: "But it would be so much fun for us to take our granddaughters into Chicago for the day and have lunch at the American Girl store!" "I just saw that Amanda won the essay contest! You must be so proud! Did you know she was writing about the importance of family?""Hon, I cannot THINK what to get Susie for Christmas this year -- 13 year old girls can be so difficult to buy for. Do me a favor, and tell me what you got Amanda, maybe I'll get an idea."

Hedgehog:

I applaud your generosity of spirit, but I stand by my position that people like this should not be allowed in this child's life.

If she was my MIL, I would't allow my daughter to be around her because, frankly, she doesn't DESERVE to be around her! She treated this person as a baby, a BABY, who was not only adopted but adopted, like a "friend"" and not as she actually was, a member of the family. She's made racist statements that are directly related to this young person's identity. And then she's decided, oh ok, it's all water and under the bridge and now I want to have contact?

NO WAY. How I have handled it, is to say to my daughter, you can have contact with them if you want, when you are out of my house. My daughter's opinion? "If he shows up at my house (meaning her uncle on her father's side), I will put him in jail for harrassment"

You are a lovely person, hedge, and you don't have a mean bone in your body. Unfortunately, many of us have people in our lives that DO have racist tendencies. We know we can't protect our kids all the time, but we don't want family around them when they are still developing because we want them to grow up with strong self esteem and morals.

Until they are grown, we have to protect them. And "granny" made her bed. Now she gets to lie in it.

nanchan, all I can say is that I have seen people change long-held, deeply cherished prejudices, given the chance, and this situation has some things in common with those scenarios. My advice would be considerably different if the husband's father or other family members were reflecting back her beliefs and reinforcing them, or even if she had enough money to live on her own.

But I actually don't see where (non) Granny particularly wants contact with Amanda now -- only that she's moving to the same area as LW. That could be, as the Annies speculated, because she is coming around, or could be to be near other family, for the climate, or employment. I'm certainly not advocating that they include her in family celebrations (after all, she's declared herself NOT family); but there's no need to snub her in the grocery store or prematurely rule out any overtures (non)Granny might eventually make.

@deb & kai archie

Right ON!

@Hedgehog
Yes, they can, but... check my post #41. But.. what you say in post #50 is perfectly reasonable.

Re: hedgehog
I agree that you have a very generous spirit, and I applaud you for it!
But, I don't agree that mil will come around. Having endured this same kind of verbal abuse, both to me, my children, and grand children, I finally said enough is enough. Sometimes, you have to draw a line, that you WILL NOT allow to be crossed. Sometimes, it means that you lock mean-spirited people out of your life, for not only the sake of your children, but for your own sake, as well. None of my children have anything to do with their grandfather because of his attitude. They are adults, and came to this conclusion well before they reached adulthood. His showing up on my property will result in jail time, for the mean old goat. As for my ex, she condoned his words and actions all those years, so she and her siblings get to deal with him, in their own way. My tolerance for him is gone, and it sounds like this mother has reached that point as well.
I applaud her for that!

LW1: Why are you married to this mama's boy? Don't you have a problem with the fact that he chooses his mother over his daughter every time? You should drop kick both of them out of your life and limit their contact with your daughter. I would also get your daughter a good therapist to work through any daddy issues she may have developed over the years due to his issues.

As for the Annies, please stop smoking crack. I mean, really? A silver lining with a racist? Wow.