Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW2, The Annies blew it. Trust that your husband knows his sister. This will cause a very large rift between you two. His sister will 99% likely act as he suspects, you'll have a miserable day, he'll be angry (rightfully) because he told you so, and you'll be angry it isn't working how you intended. Invite Sara to the wedding. She can choose to come or not. There is no reason she need be an attendant. Respect your soon to be husband's wishes when it comes to how to handle HIS family.

LW1 -
I would tend to tell you to MYOB and stay out of this, You have no idea if she's fudging it to shock you, or to cry for help, or believing her own lies, or even telling the truth. Since you have no way of knowing which is which, it is not up to you to sort this out.

Well, if her parents placed her in a private school, they are undoubtedly aware that public school does not provide enough supervision to control her, and they certainly will have shared their concerns with the school authorities.

LW2 -
I don't agree with the Annies. Not only you shouldn't start your marriage with your fiance by ignoring his warning, but he knows his sister, you don't, and chances are you would overrule his wishes to your regret. Invite her to the wedding of course. But you are in no way obligated to make her a bridesmaid. If you trust your fiance enough to marry and make him the father of your future children, I think you should trust him on his sister.

At the wedding, be cordial and friendly, but nothing more. If she is the troublemaker he says she is, a close friendship with her would be at the detriment of your marriage anyway. Not a good idea, and I don't recommend it unless, later, your husband himself has seen clear signs that she has reformed.

Your intended has agreed to abide by the advice? I hope the two of you read BTL.

LW1 - the Annie's advice was a little complicated. I'm curious why you feel like it's your problem to solve?
If Katie texts you something like that again, and it bothers you, you don't have to act like you approve. Text her back how you feel, maybe: "That sounds weird." Then let it go. Don't get drawn into her life and drama.


LW2 - maybe you could listen to your fiancee this once? Let go of all the "but's"? He feels one way. You feel another. You don't know his sister like he does. You've invited her to the wedding. That's enough. There's no reason to make her a bridesmaid. It's far easier to not invite someone to be a bridesmaid, then to dis-invite them after they cause trouble.


LW3 - If a spouse has a gut level feeling their husband or wife is having an affair... you could be right.... it may be true... or it may just be a gut level feeling. Your husband was lying to you. That doesn't mean everyone's is. Some people are paranoid, and ruin their marriages pursuing unfounded suspicions.

LW1 - the Annie's advice was a little complicated. I'm curious why you feel like it's your problem to solve?
If Katie texts you something like that again, and it bothers you, you don't have to act like you approve. Text her back how you feel, maybe: "That sounds weird." Then let it go. Don't get drawn into her life and drama.


LW2 - maybe you could listen to your fiancee this once? Let go of all the "but's"? He feels one way. You feel another. You don't know his sister like he does. You've invited her to the wedding. That's enough. There's no reason to make her a bridesmaid. It's far easier to not invite someone to be a bridesmaid, then to dis-invite them after they cause trouble.


LW3 - If a spouse has a gut level feeling their husband or wife is having an affair... you could be right.... it may be true... or it may just be a gut level feeling. Your husband was lying to you. That doesn't mean everyone's is. Some people are paranoid, and ruin their marriages pursuing unfounded suspicions.

LW2:

Listen to your fiancé. He knows his sister, he has known her his entire life, if he saying she is a drama queen, then she is a drama queen. You don't know her as well and he does, the Annies don't know her as well as he does, and really, should you and your husband be disagreeing about this now ?

Note: The Annies idea of dumping her from the wedding party is more likely the cause problems in the future then not asking her to be a bridesmaid, DON"T DO IT !!!!!

LW3:

Sometimes a spouse should trust their instincts and other times, its just paranoia. If a woman keeps accusing a guy or bickering with him over her own insecurities and trust issues (and vice versa), the relationship has been doomed, and unnecessarily. Sometimes you have to trust your instincts and sometimes you to see if you are just insecure.

I disagree with the Annies and agree with the other posters. Here BTL we have heard from numerous people who thought that their fiancée/spouse/SO should have better relationships with one or more family members because “they are family!” After pushing for the closer relationships, the BTL posters discovered that there were valid reasons for the estrangement and realised that insisting on closer interactions with the difficulty family members was a huge mistake. Do you really want to risk making a mistake like this with your wedding? Do not assume that your fiancée is wrong about his sister because you have a great relationship with your parents and siblings.

With regards to second chances, inviting your fiancée's sister to the wedding is her second chance. Depending how that goes, you may decide to get closer to his sister, or you may decide to pull away further. Being a bridesmaid is an honour that should be earned through a long-term supportive relationship towards one of the people getting married, not given to someone in hope of developing a closer future relationship. Listen to your fiancée, not the Annies.

I hope that the letter writer reads BTL instead of only reading the column in a newspaper, because the letter writer and her fiancée could get stuck with the drama queen in the wedding party. When it comes to question like this one, the advice from the Annies is beyond stupid. What a couple of dipshits!

Boy, did they blow it with LW2: "It is OK to tell her you think she might prefer to attend the wedding as a guest"? What's with the condescending, passive-aggressive BS? If YOU prefer that she attend as a guest, tell her that's what YOU prefer. It is NEVER okay to tell a grown woman what she prefers. Take responsibility for your decisions, and let her take responsibility for hers. Unbelievable!

As someone who ran many a scam in my teen years, I think LW1 is possibly having the opposite experience in private school. She could well be trying to get the older friend to trash the private school environment to her parents so she can go back to her pals at public school. It's exactly the kind of thing I would have done.

LW1--What makes you think you have to show 'Jessie's' message to anyone, much less her parents or her school? Did it occur to you that Jessie was being sarcastic or flippant in her statements? Frankly, her little FaceBook missive sounds about right for many of today's high school students who, as I imagine, are bored out of their minds in our dumbed down curriculum. Maybe her parents have recognized the problem already, hence their decision to transfer Jessie to a private school where she'll actually be expected to work during Spanish class. Your sister is absolutely right - stay out of this and MYOB. As a college sophomore, it's obvious you're at that stage of your life where you know everything and you think it's your responsibility to solve the world's ills. So if it makes you feel special and important to lob a salvo at your kid sister's friend by showing her FB postings to her parents, or worse, her school, then go right ahead. Just don't write back in three months complaining about being estranged from your once close sister, her friends and their families.

LW2--"The problem is, Steve doesn't want Sara to be a bridesmaid, because he thinks she will create drama, and he doesn't want our day to be about her." Surely you must understand that your fiance 'Steve' knows his sister much better than you do. I would think long and hard before inviting a known family troublemaker into your bridal party. She may play all sugar and spice to gain your confidence, only to sweep you aside and steal the show at your own wedding by creating all manner of drama. While your intentions are well-meaning, your wedding is not really a wise choice of forum for brokering a peace treaty between your fiancé and his estranged sister. But, you're the bride and it's your decision. As I mentioned to LW1 above, just don't come back in three months with horror stories about your wedding drama and asking for advice on how to lessen tensions between you and your new husband and the in-laws.

What are the Annies smoking these days?? LW2 should definitely not go against her fiance's wishes and ask his sister to be a bridesmaid. As the other posters have said, he knows his sister better than she does and she should abide by his wishes. As for asking her to be a bridesmaid and then rescinding the request if she acts out -- that is just RIDICULOUS! I can't think of a better way for the LW to start out her relationship with a new sister-in-law with bad feelings than that. She won't blame her brother for that - she'll blame her new SIL and probably it will ruin any good relationship the LW hopes to have with her. Invite her as a guest and make her feel welcome. SHEESH - I hope this LW reads BTL because the Annies really blew it on this one.

LW1: Boy, it's Narc On Your Friend Day at the advice columnists! (Margo has a similar type letter today on another site that will post tomorrow at creators).

Not knowing the sex of the LW, my opinion is that Jessie is trying to impress the LW (possibly romantically interested). First of all, most private high schools are fairly expensive for "wild" kids (they are not usually the ones with scholarships) and usually those kids are sent there because of problems with their public schools. As a result, the kids in the private schools are usually divided pretty dramatically between the kids who are there to study and the kids who are there to party. The schools are WELL aware of who is who, by the way. My godmother is a principal at a prestigious high school that many of my friends went to and I asked her recently if she knew that some of these kids were drinking in the parking lot, etc. She told me (and this makes sense) that at her school, the class size is so small (and most private schools are much smaller than public) that it's pretty easy for them to know who is doing what. So I'm pretty sure if it's an issue that Jessie is partying, the school most likely knows already. She probably wouldn't be there anyways if her parents weren't aware of her issues and they have likely told the school as well when she was enrolled. So, ratting out Jessie to either her parents or her school will only make you look like a jerk and could indeed do more harm than good.

My advice to you would be to talk to Jessie privately. If you are female, you may want to take the opportunity to become real life friends with Jessie. You have a unique opportunity here to possibly mentor Jessie. You are in college, you are doing something right with your life and are a positive role model. Does Jessie have a troubled home life? You may be a port in the storm for her. One of my older brothers had a girlfriend who decided to befriend me when I was Jessie's age: our parents were going through a horrible divorce and my brother wisely thought I could use a non-family member who was normal to talk to about the dynamics. He was right: that girlfriend of his is still a friend of mine although my brother and her broke up after a few months of dating. She and I used to walk on the beach for hours and talk about school, my wacky parents, everything. She also showed, by example, that I could get to college and that college would provide a better environment. I used to go stay with her during some school holidays and just seeing the college experience and knowing I could get the heck out of my parent's situation was just the hope I needed at that time. You may be able to provide the same for Jessie.

LW2: I'm with Kitty... what ARE the Annie's smoking? First of all, you don't invite someone to be in the wedding party and then disinvite them. Especially if it's someone you don't KNOW and they are going to be in your family. You think that is going to make you closer to your future SIL? No no no. You don't invite someone to be in your wedding party, future in law or no, that you don't know. Simple. And if your future husband is telling you she's a walking powder keg, pay ATTENTION. He knows her, you do not.

If you want to get to know your SIL better, perhaps (I know this is radical!) you should plan a visit to meet her before the wedding? Or include her in some of the prewedding activities. One of my SILs had a party for her attendants and invited my sisters and I to attend although none of us were in the wedding party. She even gave us the same presents that she did for her attendants (I still have mine, a pretty pair of earrings). Another SIL invited my sisters and I (also not in the wedding party) to a special brunch the day of her wedding (they had a night wedding) for her attendants after which we all had spa treatments before the wedding (now that was a great wedding!). I had never met that SIL, and even though it was HER wedding day, she made a point to sit with me and my daughter (who was in the wedding as a flower giri) to try to get to know us. My point: you don't have to have her in the party in order to make her feel a part of things and if she's a drama queen, keep her OUT. Have friends as your attendants and find other ways to get to know your future SIL.

LW1: It's entirely possible that Jessie is making the whole "I'm such a wild girl" post up in order to impress her friend Katie's college-age sibling (the LW). At that age, the difference between high school and college seems amazing, and many high schoolers envy the "freedom" and "adulthood" that college represents. Unless you have corroborating evidence, then I'd let this go -- and if she says something like that again, express mild disapproval. "I find that wild parties get boring after a while, and the kids who drink too much are struggling with classes. I worked too hard to get to college to flunk out now."

Or, you know, something along those lines, only written in appropriate youth-speak, probably with lots of "LOL"s and other things the kids are saying nowadays that an old fogey like me isn't familiar with.

LW2: Oooooh, such a very bad idea to ignore your fiancé's insights about his sister. There are other ways for you to become close with her AFTER the wedding.

Let me ask you this, though: if you are marrying this man, why aren't you trusting his judgement about his own sister?

LW3: Gut feelings are also often wrong, and false accusations and paranoia can ruin a marriage just as easily as infidelity can.

LW1 - I knew plenty of teenagers who made up a bunch of stuff like that just to get shock and attention and it's possible that is what this girl is doing. I did it, too. I once told classmates I got arrested for vandalizing on Halloween. I was a freshman and just trying to "be cool." Not only did I never get arrested, I never vandalized a thing. A friend and I sat in her basement and watched movies. I also went to school with a girl who claimed to be pregnant every few months.

But let's say she is telling the truth. I'm sure her parents have some clue that she's got problems. I mean, they did transfer her to another school. But I don't feel it's your job to save her. If you want to write back, I would say something very generic like, "I hope everything works out for you."

LW2 - Do NOT listen to the Annies on this one. Listen to your future husband. He knows his sister...you don't. If he says that she will be a trouble causing drama queen, then BELIEVE him! You shouldn't be so worried about upsetting his sister. You should be concerned about your relationship with your fiance.

I once knew a woman whose fiance didn't speak to his mother. He said she was a trouble causing drama queen, too. But she couldn't let it go and begged and begged him to reconcile with his mother and have a relationship with her. Her fiance finally did at her pushing. Well...be careful what you wish for because you just might get it! She learned very quickly why he had cut her off. She was rude, obnoxious, controlling, bossy, etc, and started ripping apart my friend behind her son's back. So my friend went to her fiance about being done with her again and he said no! He said he realized how much he missed her (via guilt trip, I'm sure) and that he couldln't cut her off again. I don't know if she ever married him (she left the company we both worked for) but she said a million times that she wished she had listened to him.

LW3: I'm not in total agreement with you on this. Gut feelings have gotten many people in trouble if that's all the evidence they have that someone is cheating. And I believe that in the original letter (there have been so many of these types, I can't remember this exact one) the husband was emailing a former coworker. This is a totally different thing than some neighborhood floozy. The husband and the woman in question had a working relationship. I believe the original LW didn't understand office dynamics and how close friendships are built when you work together closely. If you have the gut feeling, you need to have something to back it up or you just look paranoid when you confront the "guilty".

Kitty, I agree with you 100%. I think the Annies are actually the high school sophomore in LW1 and they are going to crazy parites and writing their column while hammered. First they advise a newlywed to move her raging alcoholic mother and two sons in with her husband and herself, not to mention somehow finding an employer who wants to hire a raging, deathly ill alcoholic to help run their business, and now they're suggesting having a SIL in a wedding party against her finance's will. Of all people, the Annies should know that probably nothing brings out the drama and bad behaviour of a person than being in a wedding party. Great start to a marriage. But hey, since everyone deserves a second change, why doesn't the groom choose the bride's ex-boyfriend to be his best man? Or her best frenemy? I agree "sometimes" people deserve a second chance (not everyone does!) but it doesn't have to be at the wedding. They will have their whole lives to give her a second chance.

Jesse sounds like a train wreck and will destruct at at any time. My biggest concern wouldn't be for Jesse, but for Katie. I would first approach Katie and ask her how she is doing with school and her social life, and then show her the facebook of Jesse's partying. Is Katie partying right along with her? If Jesse wants to wage war on herself, Keep Katie close. You are a wonderful sister, I wish more people were like you.

Re: Jane

HILARIOUS! I'll just bet the Annies are washing down that hormone replacement therapy with a fifth of scotch. great post!!

LW2: The Annies may be correct that " it is OK to tell her you think she might prefer to attend the wedding as a guest", at least based on your right to do so, but I think it would cause the sister to get very angry and bitter, and cause a rift much much worse than if you never asked her at all. I think that the thing to do is to try to contact the sister and try to become her friend, asking for her opinion about various aspects of the wedding. Her reaction to your offer of friendship should tell you whether to ask her or not.

LW2- Give your future S-I-L a wedding job, but don't make her a bridesmaid. Tell her that because of the distance you realize it would be hard on her to get fitted for a dress, you want a small bridal party, whatever would allow her to save face. But say you would like to get to know her and want her to be a part of the wedding party. Ask her to man the guest register, make sure the wedding party flowers get delivered to the attendants, do the flower girl's hair...or some other little job. Invite her to the rehearsal dinner, etc. She will presumably be your relative for a long time, so be kind and polite to her. You don't have to make her a bridesmaid to make her feel included, but icing her out would be rude.

LW1 - MYOB. Her parents and the school already have her number. Butt out.
LW2 - Listen to your finacee. He knows Sara better than you. And, there is a real possibility that Sara doesn't want to be a bridesmaid even though she'll get a really lovely dress in the deal.
LW3 - Maybe you coulda/shoulda met up with him in some of those places. With the nice bed liners and stuff now the back of a pick-up truck can be fun.

For yesterday:

Michael and Bitey, sure is good to have you back again. Don't stay away so long next time, ok?

LW2 - Listening to your husband on this is your first chance as a married couple to not only trust his judgment, but to show him that you value his judgment and experience. Ignoring this is basically telling him that his experience counts for nothing.
Quite honestly, it sounds to me as if you heard him and don't value his judgment because you not only want to include the sister despite his clearly stated feelings (and experience), but you want to build a strong, close relationship with her. How's he feel about that last bit? Sounds to me like you think you know better and are going to do exactly what you want to do regardless of how he feels.
Speaking from experience, nothing destroys a marriage faster than one spouse ignoring/invalidating the other's experience and judgment calls. It's called "accepting his influence" and indicates a level of trust and willingness to rely on and believe in your partner. If you don't have that trust and willingness you have no business getting married.

LW 2: Trust your fiance. He knows his sister. I understand that you want everything to be smooth with your in-laws, which is a very respectable goal. However, the dynamics of his relationship with his sister may make this impossible. For your fiance to place you above his own sister's needs says a lot and speaks wonderfully about your fiance. Trust him. He sounds like a good guy with your best interests at heart.

@Jane

GREAT post! You made my day :)

LW2: How well do you even know your future SIL at this point? If your fiance doesn't have the best relationship with her at the moment, I'm guessing you don't know her very well at all. Over the course of planning a wedding is not a great way to get to know someone. Surely you have enough friends & family members of your own to fill up your bridesmaids spots? Even best friends you've known forever can turn ugly once you've thrown a wedding into the mix, so why would you take your chances with someone you barely know?

And, you don't need to include her in your day at all if the goal is to simply get to know her better. I wasn't a bridesmaid at my brother's wedding (my SIL did ask, but I turned it down) and we get along great!

LW1: First, you said she sent you a message but then later you mentioned it as a conversation. A conversation would entail a response. Did you respond to her? I would think that anyone would've asked her why she was self-destructing and what was going on in her life that she was avoiding. Your sister sounds like a moron. She wants you to forward the message to the girl's school? What? You should bring it to the attention of her parents. The girl is in desperate need of an intervention.

LW2: Steve should run screaming from you. Instead of just respecting his wishes you want strangers to decide for you what the right thing to do is. You're not even married yet and you're already telling him that what he wants isn't important. He would be a moron to marry you.

LW3: Most people ignore their intuition because the truth is unwelcome.

This is utterly random, but I enjoy reading old Annie's Mailbox's columns. If you go back to June 9, 2011, the Annies had a VERY different take on why women lose interest in sex as they get older. The M word isn't used once. I just found it very interesting....

Diana:

This may be stupid to ask, but why do you call everyone a moron?

June 9, 2007* Sorry :)

Re: Casey
My God, but that takes us back a bit. They must have gone through menopause since then, hence their change of "mind".

Lise:

I think the Annies died and some aliens took their place.

-------------------

On the subject of women and sex, the point has been made here before that women are affected by how the whole relationship goes throughout the days and weeks. I saw a book title once, Sex Begins in the Kitchen. Very true.

You guys that complain about women being cold: you have a real relationship with your woman all day long and your sex life will be fabulous. How much clearer can we get?

Galino wrote, "The Annies may be correct that " it is OK to tell her you think she might prefer to attend the wedding as a guest."" How is it ever okay to tell someone else what she wants?

Re: jar8818
Yeah, isn't it? It seems to me they used to be better than that. When they first took over Ann Lander's column, I remember thinking they were (not quite but) just about as good as Ann Landers and that it was fitting that they should carry on. But their advice has been getting really bad of late - once in a while, they nail it, but it's getting fewer and farther between. I don't know what happened. Perhaps menopause?

Re: jar8818 Thank you!

Re: Casey

I was curious as to the change in topic so went back over to the article you mentioned.

It seems like the Annies gave a more traditional "read on" type approach to the the issue, but that they didn't really have much to say themselves that day. With an issue like sexual lack of interest, I think, honestly, that's the best approach. Why people lose interest in sex is so varied and individual: sure, it's good to hear what has worked for other people (marital counseling, medical advances, etc) but ultimately what works with one couple won't always work for everyone.

The issue I have with the Annies (although in the last month or so we haven't seen too much of it) is that EVERY time a woman's lack of interest in sex is brought up, it's always linked back to menopause and never back to the dynamic in the marriage itself. The Annies also tend to bring menopause into almost conversation where a woman is acting in a manner that is not agreeable to the LW. To me, that's sexist and takes women back 50 years.

Re: jar8818-'I think the Annies died and some aliens took their place.'

i have not! i limit myself to btl.

alien07110:

Oops. :>D

Re: alien07110
LOL!