Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

Re: Not Frustrated Anymore in Virginia

Thank you for the advice! My niece and nephew are in a blended family and I cannot possibly hope to compete with multiple parents and grandparents. I only wish I could have seen this letter several years earlier. (Fortunately, their knitted hats, etc. will keep long past the time their toys are discarded.)

And thanks to the Annies for publishing this advice!

LW1 – Huh… you remind me of someone most people cannot stand to be around (…can't understand why :-p). I, I, I, I, etc… and the grand finale ME! What relevance did you believe your statement had “there was a lot of verbal abuse when my husband and his siblings were growing up” (what, two or three decades ago?), when we are talking about the present, and this poor man is showing some symptoms of dementia. You have been a part of this family for seven years, you probably haven't seen crap compared to your husband and his siblings. They have developed coping skills, abilities to maintain a civil gathering under such uncomfortable situations.

You, my dear, haven't done your duty as a parent, if you have not explained to your 17-year-old son that his step-grandfather is not ever going to be the same man he once was, and that he should not take any verbal outburst personally. Do you understand that your FIL is not fully competent any longer? Why would you be the one shedding the tears? Why would you be demanding an apology from the other family members – what did they do? Their eyes were downcast, not from embarrassment, but sorrow from what their father has become. Who was consoling them? Not you, I am certain, since you were having a drama queen moment of your own at the time.

You said that you no longer wish to attend family gatherings, and I agree – you shouldn't, if you are going to make every gathering a diss against you. You want a good compromise? Stay home, and let the family members try to enjoy themselves with their father or FIL or grandfather – he won't be around forever. Sheesh.

LW2 – I'm not in a crappy mood, but I guess this is going to sound like I am. Did cell phones just come into existence in the last year at your home? Another parenting problem that was completely avoidable, say 10 years ago? Even my 13-year-old son knows not to have the phone at the table, or when we are visiting (and people BTL know what I have had to deal with in regards to him ;-). You know you #%@#ed up, and now you ask how to set boundaries? Well, if time travel isn't an option in your fantasy world, I would admit to the “kids” that I was not a great parent in this particular aspect, and get a conversation going about how everyone can start from scratch (including you), and insert manners in the equation.

BTW: HAPPY NEW YEAR, EVERYONE!!

LW1:

Gramps has dementia, do you have any freaking clue how brutal that is on a family ??????? Seriously, your kid is 17, not 7, I'm sure he understands this better then you do. What did you want them to do ? Scream and yell at someone who doesn't know what they are doing ? And now you want an apology from the whole family that actually has to deal with this every day because your feelings were hurt ? Dear god, I feel bad for your husband.

LW3:

While I hope your nephew appreciates the $600 you give him, my honest guess is, your probably the aunt he likes the least,and your the family member that children could never stand near the holidays.....really, he got to many toys (in your opinion) so you got him clothes. Everyone has a relative who they thought gave crappy gifts, or gave clothes to when they were kids......YOU are that relative......lol

LW1 - I disagree with the assessment that Grandpa is not "himself". If he was verbally abusive to his young children, and that verbal abuse died down when the children were out of his house and out of his hair, then it sounds like Grandpa is very much being himself. This verbal abuse is probably not dementia related. Yes, dementia can cause those kinds of outbursts, but if there is a history of it already, it seems ludicrous to attribute it to dementia.

LW3 - Your nephew expressed a polite thank-you for a gift that you KNEW he wouldn't like or want, that you gave him because YOU decided that he had too many toys, and so you punish him for his politeness? Because that's clearly your intent with the savings deposit - it allows you to retain an illusion of moral high ground when you're really being an overly-controlling aunt who gives not for the recipient's joy, but for your own satisfaction. Blech.

LW1--"In the past couple of years, Grandpa has shown some symptoms of dementia." "My husband's family just sat there behaving as if nothing was happening, so I went in to rescue my child. " First of all, your 17 year old son doesn't need his mommy to come running to his rescue. The family didn't raise an eyebrow when the incident occurred because they understand that grandpa's dementia sometimes manifests itself in exactly this way and getting upset about it isn't helpful or productive. Not one of them said a thing or offered your son a word of comfort or sympathy because unlike you, they thought a 17 year old young man was mature enough to handle a misplaced, cross outburst of a demented old man without collapsing into a sobbing puddle of pathetic goo like you did! If this "incident" has changed how you view your husband's family then you seriously need to get a grip lady! Forget about the Annies ridiculous suggestion that you call a family "pow wow" so that everyone in your husband's family can learn to molly coddle you and discuss how they can better placate your delicate ego in the future. Don't you think they have enough to deal with? Grow up! The world doesn't revolve around you or your precious son. We're talking about a sick old man who couldn't help himself. If anyone should apologize for their behavior that day it should be YOU!

LW2--"We have young adult children who stayed at our home over the holidays and spent the majority of time engaged with their individual smart phones. They rarely interacted with other family members." Welcome to the twenty first century! Look around you; in case you hadn't noticed, everyone acts like this nowadays. People are so addicted to their virtual lives on-line that they hardly notice what's happening in front of their own faces; if they do, whatever drew their attention away from the phone is on YouTube within the hour! If you want to make a point to your children regarding their obviously rude behavior, next year on Christmas morning, text each of them a photograph of the gift you might have purchased for them and tell them since they spent so much time on their smart phones last year, you thought they'd enjoy having the gifts in cyberspace instead of reality.

My daughter had a dinner date who kept interrupting their conversation to check his text messages etc.
She finally left and texted him that in case he hadn't noticed, she had left and was now doing something more interesting than watching him play with his phone.

LW2 - well, I guess you showed that ungrateful little SOB. Now as a young adult, he has to deal with a healthy bank acoount waiting for his use! LOL.
I always give books to the kids in my family/friend circle. All ages can use books.
Last month, my 36 year old nephew texted me a thank-you for the first book I gave him as a baby. Included were pictures of his one year old son 'enjoying reading 'the very same book. Whtat a thrill to be thanked and to see that a whole new generation loves those books. BTW - they were Richard Scarry's classic books which are still favorites with children today.

Giving children clothes when they are little is an insult. It shows a complete failure to understand that they are full human beings with the same right to respect and dignity as an adult, while at the same time being childish. Imagine you have an adult friend who you know hates garden gnomes, and every birthday you give them a garden gnome. What would you expect that adult to do? Imagine that for a decade you tell your friends how you cannot understand collecting Hummel figures. That you believe they are sickeningly cute dust collectors. Telling them that you love collecting small kitchen gadgets. Then on your 30th birthday they throw a special party for you and every one of them gives you a Hummel? How would you feel? Why should a child not have this same right? You consistently gave your nephew a gift you knew he would not like, then when he showed a proper response, you cut him off. You are a small minded petty vindictive person, who is cruel to children, and does not even know it.

Re: Jenna
The modern smart phone did not exist 10 years ago, and the addiction to them doesn't happen instantly for everone. So, yes, it's quite possible that LW2's problem did come into existence over the past year.

LW2: This is why I hate spending time with my brother. He is always playing with his iPhone or his iPad instead of focusing on his company, and more importantly, his young sons (5 and 3). Yeah, work is important, but IMO, he can afford to be out of touch for a couple of days in order to spend time with family (he's an engineer with a baby gadget/crap manufacturer).

Me, I had a Blackberry a few years back, and I just didn't see the point when I looked at how much money I was spending and how anti-social I became for the sake of my smart phone. I ditched it, and now have a bare-bones cell phone plan that doesn't even let me text. Sometimes it's possible to be TOO connected.

Re: Nicholas

I don't consider giving clothes an insult. I usually give my nephews T-shirts from various places that I traveled during the year (this year, I gave them panda T-shirts from the Memphis Zoo...the older one's glows in the dark, and the younger one's has a rock 'n roll theme). However, in the past, my brother and sister-in-law have asked that I give them clothes.

Each family is different when it comes to gift giving. There never should be a "one size fits all" to gift giving to children.

Furious in Florida, GROW UP. I can't stand it when people like you, after years of having a loving relationship with people, suddenly decide they have failed you on one occasion and now your whole percetpion of them is changed and you're going to "run away and never speak to them again!" It was not their job to "protect" your son, it was YOURS, and you sat at the table crying instead, waiting for them to act. But moreover, you already knew Grandpa was suffering from signs of dementia, yet you obviously did nothing to warn your son beforehand and tell him how to handle these instances, which will only become more frequent. Your son is practically an adult for heaven's sake. I think your last line about saving your dignity says it all. This is all about YOU, and you have no empathy for a family who has loved you and is sitting there sadly watching their father's mind slip away. Did you offer them sympathy for that? No. Maybe they should stop speaking to YOU.

LW1 - Please know the family has many emotional traumas from growing up this way. It is just their natural response. When outbursts like that happen, they revert to the age of when their first outburst happened. The only way for your husband to overcome this is to go through therapy. A specific therapy is EMDR. This type helps the person's brain get 'retrained' to respond they way they logically want to. Right now their emotional response (younger person) is responding. Their response is to freeze and do nothing. EMDR can help them respond the way they want and know they can. I have gone through this therapy and can tell you, I wish my entire family would go through it. My husband has seen a huge difference in me...all positive. I express my feeling more in a positive way. I no longer have huge outbursts (what I learned growing up). I am talk about my infertility experiences in a positive light...and no get too emotional about it. Please urge your husband to look into it. I know it sounds somewhat hocus pocus or brainwashing...but as an engineer, I can tell you it has been a miracle therapy for me. Good Luck!

@Rebecca - Great post! Thank you for sharing that information and your personal experience.

Re LW3 - How in the world is giving clothing to a child cruel? Why is no one BTL saying that a child should be taught by his parents to exhibit gratitude for ANY gift they receive, not just the ones they like? How is putting money in a savings account which will be turned over to the child with a good starter savings cruel or controlling? Good Lord, people need to get a grip. My children would prefer toys - but do you know how quickly a 7 y.o. boy can burn through clothing? While the gift is practical it is hardly cruel - in some cases that kind of thoughtfulness is a true blessing to the parents. Kid's don't need the latest toy or gadget. But they NEED clothing. And they will NEED money of their own as the enter adulthood and a starter savings account is a good way to help the child continue to save through out his life. LW3 is a TRULY awful person for seeing that her nephews gets what he actually needs instead of what he wants. With the attitude of bias against this LW, no wonder so many children are so entitled.

LW1 - Yep, I agree that you need to get over yourself. Jenna said it well.

@LW1: “I no longer wish to attend family gatherings, because I want to make it clear that their behavior was hurtful.”
That'll show ‘em! Not having the overreacting, overly emotional in-law come to family events will be a true punishment! I bet they come, crawling on their knees, begging for your forgiveness after you don't come to the next family function. They'll see the error of their ways. That they should have ran into the kitchen, screeching at Grandpa to “Leave him alone! Cant you see he's just a child??” They then should have coddled your son to the point that he's unable to lead a real life, because his family has made sure he never feels any pain or disappointment; to ensure that he lives in your basement for the next 30 years, because “college was too hard” or “I can't work. They want me to be there * every * day.”

Kidding aside, your protestation will most likely be a gift to them. Take cue from the LW yesterday and consider it their birthday * and * Christmas present. Also, make sure, on the holiday, to send a card, with your picture in it, and a note that says “Not having to put up with my crap this holiday season. You're welcome!” It'll be a reminder that you're giving them the greatest present of all: a drama free family celebration. Bawling at a family gathering, protesting future gatherings, and writing off the entire family, from one minor incident? This is the very definition of drama queen. Good luck when life hands you real problems, lady….

Ok, I'm now getting off my high horse, so I can get me a Sarsaparilla….

I can't believe people who give gifts and expect something in return. If you give gifts to people who don't show appreciation, just quit giving them gifts. I give gifts because I want to. Most of the people I give gifts to say thank you right away. I never HAVE to give a gift. If I did, I wouldn't. I don't want gifts from people who think they have to buy me something. I'd rather they did somethiing nice for me. Anyone can go to the store and buy something. Doing a kindness is very difficult.

Re: sharnee
My first post seems to have vanished, but I said something very similar. If LW was "punishing" anyone, it was the parents, who never taught their son to show any appreciation, and that could well have been her intention. Let them buy all their kid's clothes themselves. For Nicholas to call her childish, small-minded,petty, vindictive and cruel for finding an alternative was absolutely crazy. Now, she could have wrapped up a picture of the latest gee-whiz toy and said that's what I would have given if you knew how to thank me...THAT would have been childish, small-minded, etc., etc.
Personally, I don't give toys to my nieces and nephews anymore either. Not because they weren't appreciative, but because they just have so much crap that none of it really means anything. Instead, I give a year-long family membership to the zoo or a museum, or tickets to an event the whole family can enjoy. It is one big purchase a year, and I give it at Christmas, then give only a card on birthdays. They still get so much that one less gift isn't even noticed, and they enjoy the memberships throughout the whole year.

One thing that has yet to be addressed in regard to the demented grandpa is this: Someone in the family...the best is usually an adult child...should have gotten up off his/her 'hiney', gone to Grandpa and (gently) told him that he shouldn't be talking to another person in such a manner. Folks, you MUST remember that dealing with a dementia patient is quite similar to dealing with a petulant 5-year-old! While this will be difficult for LW1's family, considering Grandpa's past behavior, the family still needs to do this for everybody's sake. I doubt if this was Grandpa's first outburst ~ and it won't be his last, either ~ so the "problem" needs to be dealt with, not ignored.

Re: Snarf/Not Frustrated Anymore in Virginia
I like your idea for gifts. Years ago I got frustrated with my younger cousins never responding, etc. When they got into their early teens I thought they were responsible enough to take the responsibility of sending a Thank you note. They didn't even bother to call. I put together a wicker basket for them one year; included a teenage etiquette book, address book, ink pens, stamps, stationary, thank you notes, etc. I would have loved to have received it myself. Sent it to them; no response. They never received another Christmas ot birthday gift from me again. I gave them the tools with a strong hint.

LW1-
My guess is that, the minute grandpa starts his spiel, all the ones who've been subjected to it all their lives automatically go back to the little children they were and fall back into the stance of the verbally abused victim. This is not going to change unless the entire family goes into therapy, which is unlikely.

Explain to your son that abusive people's behaviour has to do with their own personal demons and that he shouldn't take it personally. Don't stop going to family functions. Be polite and even cordial, but ostensibly keep yourself and your son away from Mister War Mouth. If he ever wonders why, tell him, politely but point blank, that you are not interested in being exposed to his angry viciousness. I don't care if he doesn't remember that specific incident. Everybody else does and, at his age, I'm sure he knows perfectly well how he's been all his life.

If your husband has a problem with this (I sure hope not for his sake, as it wouldn't be to his credit), you can tell him you didn't marry him to add yet another pair of scratching posts to the collection of an angry, abusive old coot.

@Jenna
"What relevance did you believe your statement had “there was a lot of verbal abuse when my husband and his siblings were growing up” (what, two or three decades ago)"
The relevance of what happened "two or three decades ago'" is that the man hasn't changed. People who are the same as they were 30 years ago behave the same way they did 30 years ago, and so the past becomes the present. THAT'S the relevance. The fact that he's becoming senile does NOT excuse the continuation of an abuse that was always there in the first place, it only makes it worse.

And no, they haven't developed coping skills at all, not if they allow a 17 year-old kid to be vicviously attacked without even having the courage to offer emotional support after the fact. They're still acting like little kids under attack, clutching the umbrella close to their heads and hoping the hail will stop falling soon. Sad.

You're right that the mother should have explained to her son not to take it personally, because he's been like that to everybody all his life. However, he IS the same man he has always been - dementia makes him lose whatever filters he had, that's all.

"I'm not in a crappy mood" - gee, you sure had me fooled. Happy new year to everyone, you said? I sure the rest of the year is happier than that for YOU, and that you insert a little compassion into the equation.

@Mookster
"What did you want them to do ?"
"Not one of them said a thing or offered my son a word of comfort or sympathy."
That's what she expected them to do, which seems reasonable enough. Especially from her husband. I don't see anything about picking a fight with grandpa in there.

@Chris
You obviously don't remember being 17 and we all know you don't have any children, so you have no idea how mature a 17 year-old is. He's not. He's a kid, not an adult. And, yes, he did need rescuing.

@Jane
She DID protect her son - she went to the kitchen and rescued him. She did not expect them to protect him, she expected them to show compassion and support after the fact. And yes, it would have been reasonable for her HUSBAND to go to the kitchen and rescue kiddo, since it was his father who was being an a$$, and at his family gathering. And for that matter, it WOULD have been appropriate that a member of the hosting household intervene, since the kid was the son of someone who is a relatively new addition to the family and a guest in their house. That would be called being a good host.

The husband apologised for "not handling it better", and well he should. Indeed he did not handle this very well. I see nothing wrong with what SHE did.

@All of you who have slammed hard into LW1
What's the matter with you all? You're siding with an abuser. His abusive behaviour does NOT become okay because he now has dementia. The dementia is recent. The abuse is not.

LW2-
You want them behaving appropriately without you having to put your foot down because your'e weak. It doesn't work that way. Stop being "feeble" and start being firm. Set up ground rules.

LW3-
You may see this as a perfect solution, but what I see is an ungrateful, entitled kid being rewarded for his brattiness.

However, your solution can be a wonderful idea in many instances, so thank you for sharing it.

@Lise - You are right, the 17 y.o. did need some emotional support after the fact. But it is hard to focus on that when the LW said that SHE was the one who was crying like a drama queen - she didn't mention her son's reaction one way or another. We have no idea whether or not he took his Step-grandfather's rant in stride or whether he was traumatized - because the LW only wrote about her feelings. She sounds like a piece of work.

And while you're right - apparently the LW's FIL was suppressing an abusive personality the entire time she had known him - at least he was making the effort to suppress that negative behavior. Many people with abusive personality would never even consider mellowing out to begin with. Unfortunately, dementia made it impossible for him to continue to hide his abusive nature. His illness has changed the rules and he should not be held accountable for something he cannot control at this point. If anyone should be holding the FIL accountable for his behavior, it should be his adult children. As the LW's only experience with him was as a kind man, she should have felt a modicum of compassion for him as well as his children who have to deal with him. Again, she really didn't even care for her son's feelings as far as I can tell - it was much more about the fact that he is HER son than it is about him.

@Shirley - What a great idea!!! Those memberships are great and they are also expensive. What a thoughtful gift. I too like to give useful gifts. As a parent of twins - I am well aware of the expense of diapers and formula for two infants. The cost is insane. When my best friend had twins, I bought her family a one year executive Costco membership so they could buy the baby items at the best price possible and get a 2% rebate at the end of the year on all of their purchases. When my sons were infants, our rebate from all the baby items we purchase amounted to more than the annual membership fee!

Also, there used to be a website where you could give gift certificates for diapers (I don't know if it still exists - it was in the dot com boom era) - when another close friend had a baby, I bought a certificate for one month supply. After that month was up, she and her husband thanked me profusely when they started having to buy them and found out how much of a dent those things can put in your wallet.

Likewise, when we had our twins - we got nice baby gifts but the things that we appreciated most was when I friend would just drop by with a case of diapers. We didn't have to buy any for the first two months of our sons' lives.

Re the clothing comment. The words spewed by Nicholas sounds as if it came from a pubescent bratty boy, kicking all the things he got--and OMG esp the one who supplied him with any clothing. Where did your clothing come from Sir Nick? I am attest to the fact that many of us on this blog have been shoppers at garage sales and Goodwill for our own clothing. To have the poorest of manners to even bitch one word--should get the rotten orange in the sock.
My family makes sure they tell me the sizes of the kids, favorite colors, etc so if i am buying clothing or better yet, designing, creating, sewing/crafting/crocheting, etc. The greatest is when the parent contacts me back and asks where they could get more. I have a waiting list of people wanting my quilts. When strangers send extra on the fee just to BE ON THE LIST----
I don't go and buy just anything for clothing. But I am also on a small budget--so for Christmas I had taken my granddaughters to a fabric shop in Oct--they walked around pointing out what they loved, also picked out patterns. So when GREAT sales came around, I could make their one item stretch to 10 items.
My family of all males except the 2 granddaughters and 1 d-i-l have a basic set style you can choose from. Whether Pennys, Sears, Home/farm store---a Carhartt for example will never be returned. My extended family relatives children also got the needed items. Parents told me whether it was tights for the pretty dress, the special motif pair of pjs, right down to some reallly cool shoe laces hard to come by. I ebay shop and there are many parents who clean closets--esp wonderful when you find someone who outgrew the NEW stuff in the kids' wardrobe that is a perfect for the next kid. FYI NWT means just like at the store--new with tags. We shop from head to toe for clothing on Ebay.
In the last 10 years of all my swimming suits purchased (lap swimmer so I go through many per year) I have bought them NWT on Ebay. Instead of spending $100 at Pennys, I spend $15 on Ebay.
Giving the kid the latest junk trendy gimmick toy of the moment--he will discard it with bordom shortly. And into the charity box or heaven help him--garbage/landfill--just because of greed and being an inconsiderate person.
Remember--we reap what we sow. And there are plenty bad seeds out there.
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LW1: Well at this point of being in the family for this many years--age 10 to 17---the teen has had opportunity to see many versions of the step-grandfather. The running to protect him was a bad/embarrassing move. On your part at the time, standing up at the table and saying directly to the old man would have been "DO YOU REALIZE WHAT YOU JUST DID? WHY DO YOU BEHAVE IN THAT MANNER."
This would have directed the others in the room to react accordingly and with hope--stated their feelings at the same time. You state they sat their. Well, they need a conversation opening. It also would have given the old guy a chance to say he was sorry. By age 17, the teen has figured out in life who are the bullies to try to avoid. Whether school or in families, they are there. You should have called your son back into the room where everyone else was. Running away does not let anyone else have a change to change things.
This being said, LET IT GO, but also let your husband know that the behaviors of his father also puts things in another catagory. Mental health issues on his part. Aging process has begun. And safety concerns watched as well. Speak to some aging specialists. They are not all doctors and not all will cost you money.
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RE THE TECHIE ISSUE.
For issues I feel strongly about (if I am the host) I post it. There is no smoking in my house (has not been for years.) There is no smoking in my yard either--MN is the land of the NO SMOKING--SUCK IT UP. I also have REMOVE YOUR SHOES policy--as many homes have. Many of us have rules when the kitchen is off limits--meaning if I spent all that time cooking, HOW DARE YOU ASK for a grilled cheese sandwich. I abide by food allergies of people, but I won't be YOUR CHEF.
SO if you tell people to set those damn phones/toys aside for a certain time frame, they should honor it. Some people can't fathom how life was before the last 2 years of teckie toys. And I remember grandma's party line where you waited to use the connection to be able to MAKE 1 phone call. On a phone with a CORD no less! And we used to have the operator come on the phone and ask you for the phone number you wanted. I remember being on the phone with a neighbor girl--must have been winter or else we would have yelled out the door to each other---anywy, she and I were giggling about something AND the operator told us it was enough and that it was time to get off the phone. 1960's.
Being savey was to have a baseball card with a clothes pin on the spoke of your bike OR having your own personal SKATE KEY you did not have to share with siblings.
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The rise and fall of behaviors within the elderly as they enter dementia does not always follow their demeanor of better days. Many times it is of the opposite behaviors which had been the characteristics for years. That is usually a big clue for doctors.
In a younger person, you would consider drug use in seeing similar behaviors. How many medications can you think of in 30 seconds that advertize on TV that LIST side effects? Some of the pretty damn scary.
Even tho my cholesterol levels are challenging, I took myself off the medication when severe syptoms of congestive heart failure were bringing me back to the doctors repeatedly. Was not until I read a story in the READERS DIGEST and brought it with me that the pieces fit. Saw a cardiologist who told me reading that story maybe saved my life. More meds were being given, try this, try that. Even the simplest of blood pressure meds were having side effects--all thanks to STATINS. Which, by the way, are on MY ALLERGY list with LATEX. Just as deadly for me.

I have two young nephews who I also feel get waaaaaay to many toys. They are almost 3 and 5 and have been taught to be VERY grateful for all gifts. Once my brother even coached the older one to say "Auntie Walkie, you give too much!" after I gave cash. Anyway, I can relate to not wanting to add to the pile of toys under the tree. So this year, I gave them a small pack of stick on tattoos, an individual treat they like, and a bit of cash. They loved it, they get $ for their educational fund, and the parents don't have a stack of toys to clutter up the house that they will eventually have to donate.

@ Lise Brouillette

"You obviously don't remember being 17 and we all know you don't have any children, so you have no idea how mature a 17 year-old is. He's not. He's a kid, not an adult. And, yes, he did need rescuing."

You never miss an opportunity to get in a dig do you lady? II'm so glad you know me and my memories better than I do. You're ridiculous. The reason most of us BTL recognized LW1 for the drama queen she is is because we all recognize what's normal whereas clearly you cannot!

@Joyce/MN - "... if I spent all that time cooking,HOW DARE YOU ASK for a grilled cheese sandwich. I abide by food allergies of people, but I won't be YOUR CHEF. " LOL

After dinner and dessert and the last cup of milk or drink of water for the evening, I turn off the kitchen light turn to my children and say, "the kitchen is what?" and they all shout "CLOSED" in unison - even the baby! They know that means not to ask me for anything else to eat or drink until morning.

Re: sharnee

We have absolitely no indication of the tears being extreme enough to qualify as drama-queening - for all we now, it could have been tears of frustration.

As for grandpa, unless they've had extensive, competent and effective therapy, abusive people don't "mellow" and the reason she never saw that side of him before was not out of the goodness of his heart. It was a divide & conquer control tactic: not to show the same side of himself to everyone - you ought to know that.

As for her son, even if HE didn't break down in tears publicly doesn't mean he wasn't a turmoil of emotions inside. I wouldn't have waited long before plucking MY son out that kitchen either, even if he looked impassible and inscrutable as a marble statue.

She didn't care for her son's feelings as far as you can tell? Well, I can tell. She waited for her husband and/or the host to do something appropriate and nothing was forthcoming because they were all too busy cowering against the storm, and so she acted herself. If she had cared about her precious self only, she would have just rounded in on her husband and/or in-laws and demand that THEY handle it while her son kept on being verbally assaulted.

We don't know if this first outburst is the result of dementia having removed whatever filters he once had, or if it's that he's startting to get real with her too - abusive people rarely show their ugly side right at the outset and the abuse escalates gradually. As a lot of people here know that firsthand.

But it's not even a question of holding the old coot accountable - at his age, he's not gonna change except for the worse, whether he has dementia or not, so the dementia aspect of the equation is not even all that relevant since he was already a schmuck way before this started being a factor. It IS, however, a question of keeping herself and her son out of firing range while preserving the family peace. And yes, it wouldn't have been too much to expect an apologetic word of kindness instead of facing a bunch of wimpy, perpetual victims with their noses in their plates.

I see plenty of failings from both the husband and his family in this incident. I see none from HER.

Re: Chris

And you never miss an opportunity to blame the vitcim, do you? The majority is not always right, Chris, otherwise a lot of things would not need to be corrected over the years and societies would always remain the same.

Re: giving clothing as gifts to children. Depends on the clothing. You can give my 2yo ANY piece of clothing with Bob the Builder on it, and he'll be THRILLED. Heck, I have to have two sets of Bob the Builder pjs because otherwise I wouldn't be able to wash them. When I was a young teenager, and my family were not very well off, but not exactly poor, I would have been absolutely overjoyed if I got a pair of Levis for Christmas - my mom usually bought me clothes from Sears, and I didn't earn enough money through odd teenage jobs to buy myself a pair of Levis until I was about 16. On the other hand, giving clothing as gifts to kids can be quite insulting. A 6-pack of Hanes socks or briefs, I bet, would not elicit genuine gratitude unless the receiver was quite deprived of clothes. In that case, the receiver should still say thank you in the most gracious way possible, but expecting a kid to be truly excited about a gift like this is beyond naive.

Geeze Chris...how dare you criticize someone with such amazing stage presence??? You weren't there when LW had this incident with her family, so you have no way of knowing what happened. That would be acceptable if you were omniscient and knew that the way you perceive it is the ONLY possible way it all could have played out, but you are not. There is only one such holder-of-all-the-wisdom here, and that's just the way it is...no matter how far to the back of the stage you put her. ;-)
My dad was an abusive violent drunk for all the years of my childhood. Even when he wasn't drinking, he was verbally, although not physically, abusive with our mom and all of us kids. But when the last of us graduated from high school and left home, he stopped drinking and became a totally different person. There was no intensive therapy involved...I believe he was just relieved to no longer be responsible for us (I'm sure Lise will tell us what my dad was really thinking, so I won't waste time guessing...it's not like I knew him or anything) and he just stopped. He lived another 20+ years, as a happy loving man who gave and gave and gave. None of his grandchildren ever saw the ugliness that we grew up with, and we are all grateful for that. Fortunately, he had no issues with dementia and we were lucky enough to have the man he had become stay with us right to the end.
LW could show a little compassion for her in-laws, and remember that with her FIL's increased dementia, they are losing the father they love, and regaining the ogre they thought they had seen the last of. But she won't, I'm sure. Instead, she will continue to make this all about her, the apology that SHE deserves, and HER dignity. What a PITA.

Re: sharnee
Thank you! I have shared it with many friends, and I know that at least some have used the idea. Feel free! Here's another...my favorite housewarming gift for someone moving out on their own for the very first time...a garbage can or storage tub full of kitchen basics. I put in things like basic seasonings, condiments, a couple cans of soup, peanut butter and jelly, a couple cans of tuna, and so on and so on. I usually add some cleaning supplies, pot holders and things like a bottle opener, sandwich bags and chip clips...all that random stuff that you just take for granted will be there when you need it. No one thing is over a few dollars, and it doesn't make a dent when you replace one or two things at a time. But having to buy it all at once, along with deposits and the rest of the costs of moving, can really put a bite into a budget. It may not get the same enthusiastic response as some other gifts, but you know it will be used more than nearly any other.

And yes, you can still buy diaper gift cards online, for either disposable or cloth diapers. Again, it doesn't have the "awwww" factor of a 3-foot teddy bear, but I lean more toward the practical, so that is fine with me!

Re: Lise B / LW1

LW1 isn't exactly wrong in feeling upset at her family for basically ignoring the situation, but she IS being a drama queen, and unreasonable.

She says: "My father-in-law has always been nice to me" and it sounds like she are fairly close. If FIL was abusive and you assume he is, she would have witnessed something over the past 10 years.

She says: "but I've been told there was a lot of verbal abuse when my husband and his siblings were growing up." What does that even mean? People use throw around the word "verbal abuse" but what people call verbally abusive was considered normal 40 years ago. That does not make it OK, but it doesn't mean that FIL is abusIVE. He could simply have yelled at his kids when they were bad.

"My husband's family just sat there behaving as if nothing was happening, so I went in to rescue my child." honestly, what were they supposed to do? It would have been nice if the family matriarch had gotten up and said something to placate, but that didn't happen. Too bad, so sad. She did the right thing in going to get her son, at which time she should have taken him aside, told him "your grandpa is showing signs of dementia and so he may not act the way he normally would. I'm sorry he yelled at you, but don't take it personally. I know he loves you; he just had a momentary slip" and then gotten on with her life. And notice how she says "my CHILD?" a 17 year old is NOT a child.

Instead, she says she "stood there crying as the whole family sat at the table with eyes downcast."
How is this supposed to help anything? Normally people do not burst into tears because an old coot had an outburst at a 17 year old. If they do, they probably cry about everything, and that's probably why their eyes were downcast!

"I feel everyone at that table owes my son and me an apology."
Why? For not reacting the way she wanted them to? What a horrible sense of entitlement. They didn't act perfectly, okay, BIG DEAL. If everyone demanded an apology from anyone anytime they didn't react perfectly in a stressful situation...

"I want my husband to be as angry as I am."
How is this NOT being a drama queen? She WANTS her husband to be ANGRY? Come on.

At NO TIME does she mention how her son felt, but she DID say "me"/"I" over 30 times in a 282 word letter.

And you know what, if MY mother spewed drunked vitriol at a 17 year old whose mother was there so soothe his hurt feelings, I wouldn't apologize either. I'm not my mother and I'm not responsible for her behaviour.

You say Chris is blaming the victim. LW1 is not a victim. Her son is, I guess, but what constitutes a victim, anyway? Someone who was yelled at once by an old man. We're just about ALL victims at some point of that! Let's all get our moms to demand everyone who stood by, give us an apology! Because obviously they aren't the loving people we thought they were so let's boycott everything and then write letters to advice columnists about it to garner sympathy.

LW1 needs to get over it and stop trying to suck everyone else into her dramatic black hole of negativity.

Shirley... OMG... LOL!

That's all I have to say ;)

Re: LW3
Some BTLers are harsh today. We see letters ad nauseum about kids who don't thank gift-givers, but today, we get something different. Nephew didn't thank Auntie Dearest ADEQUATELY! Nothing bratty about that. Should he have done a Snoopy happy dance with a harmonica riff? She made the decision to continuously give him clothing for both his birthday and Christmas, knowing full well that her gifts wouldn't be a big hit. Okay. A gift is a gift and she chose to give him something – what she wanted to give, not what he was thrilled to receive. His parents obviously taught him to be grateful for any gift, since he did thank her. He might have 2 closets full of clothes. She might have the worst taste in clothing since my Aunt Carol, who gifted me with the most hideous pair of red plaid flannel pajamas on the planet (and she received a warm hug, a smile, and a sincere thank you, because I feared my mom's icy blue eyes of death if I didn't treat something given to me with the utmost respect). Yes, toys can be one-and-done, but they can also be heirlooms and much loved. We siblings are in our 50s and 60s and still have every board game we ever owned, and each one of us, as well as some of our kids, learned to play chess with the same set. Clothes can be great and used until they're worn to a nub; they can be outgrown in a month if the kid hits a growth spurt, or ugly beyond belief – and my brother wore that brown and yellow hand-knitted horse head sweater to our Granny's house without fail. The LW wrote in with her solution, which is a great one. Evidently she wanted to continue to gift her nephew, so she found a way that made them both happy. Good for her. And from the sound of it, he was 9 or 10 the last time she gave him clothing. I'm giving that kid a permanent beat up, wrinkled and Zwieback crusted Get Out of Jail Free card.

And for people who could use terrific gift suggestions - BTLers have given you fabulous ideas!

Re: Zoe
"I've been told there was a lot of verbal abuse when my husband and his siblings were growing up."
I'm not assuming anything. This is what the LW says herself. I don't care if it was considered normal 40 years ago, a lot of things that are not okay at all were considered normal 40 years ago. The very reaction they had - freezing and totally passive - indicates they're still stuck in a time warp every time he blows up. Otherwise SOMEONE would have gotten up and said, "Hey-hey-hey, grandpa, STOP THAT!"

"honestly, what were they supposed to do?"
What I just said. Or at least offer apologetic words of comfort.

"a 17 year old is NOT a child."
Legally, he is... And Zoe, you are still too young to have children that age. You will find out in time that your offspring is ALWAYS your child, especially when s/he's under attack.

And the years anywhere between grade school and early twenties can be funny - I remember when my daughter was a young teen - the minute she was bedridden with the flu, she was a sick toddler all over again. And that's par for the course.

I wouldn't demand an apology from these people - but the entire incident was a disgrace and her own husband admits his own response was lacking. In which case HE doesn't seem to think she's such a drama queen. And frankly, I fail to see how it is being a drama queen to have to rescue your own son from a totally undeserved verbal attack while nobody, including her own husband, was lifting a finger to put an end to it! Was she supposed to just sit there like everybody else while her CHILD was being shredded? I think not.

I also fail to see how being an abusive prick becomes okay the minute dementia enters the picture. I could understand being more forgiving if an extremely nice, polite, kindhearted person suddenly turned into a raging lunatic because of dementia, but this is not the case here. This is not new behaviour.

P.S.: You went and COUNTED the words? O-kay....

Re: JeannieA
"my Aunt Carol, who gifted me with the most hideous pair of red plaid flannel pajamas on the planet."
LOL! I hope they didn't give you nightmares!

LW2-This letter could have been written by my mother and I'm a not-so young adult. My mother complained the entire time that we visited for the holiday because both my husband and I spent a couple of hours per day on our laptops. The computer time didn't really detract form family time as we scheduled our work time to co-incide with her tv show schedule. I also made sure to help with all the cooking and clean-up to make sure that we were not a burden on her. Despite explaining that our computers are how we earn our living and that time away is a luxury, she refuses to understand. I own my own business and my husband is a vice-president in a Fortune 500 company. There is no down time for us--travel/time away from the office is made possible only because we have portable offices to keep us connected. It was not like we spent all our waking hours on our computers-just an hour or so per day. Just because the US celebrates holidays, doesn't mean the rest of the world shuts down-this is a global economy after all. We have to be available to deal with business at least a few minutes per day because of our positions-not all decisions can be delegated. You would have thought that we were the worst people in the world for making time to visit her and giving up an hour or two per day to manage our lives. Of course, all this complaining came from a woman who was a health care professional during my youth-and missed many holidays and birthdays because she was "on-call". Can you spot the hypocrite in this scenario? Next year, I think we'll stay home!!

Re: Lise B.

"This is what the LW says herself" - Actually, LW1 didn't say that herself. She said "she's been told." She's getting decades-old information second hand, and we're getting it third hand. We truly have no idea if he was the most awful abuser who happened to be perfectly lovely for the past seven years, or if he just yelled sometimes when he kids were brats.

"I don't care if it was considered normal 40 years ago, a lot of things that are not okay at all were considered normal 40 years ago."
I didn't say it was OK... My point was that it does not take an abuser to be abusive. Sometimes people do jerky things for other reasons.

"The very reaction they had - freezing and totally passive - indicates they're still stuck in a time warp every time he blows up. Otherwise SOMEONE would have gotten up and said, "Hey-hey-hey, grandpa, STOP THAT!""
Or they just shut down when the old guy gets mad because he has dementia and it's easier to ignore it than to deal with the fact that he's losing his mind. Neither of us knows.

"What I just said. Or at least offer apologetic words of comfort."
Why? It's not their fault; they didn't yell at the kid. It would have been nice if they had, of course, but they didn't. That's what mommies are for anyway. It's not healthy for LW1 to fixate on this.

"Legally, he is... And Zoe, you are still too young to have children that age. You will find out in time that your offspring is ALWAYS your child, especially when s/he's under attack."
Yes, but notice how she called him her "son" in every other instance? Only when she has to dash to his rescue does he become a "child".

"But the entire incident was a disgrace and her own husband admits his own response was lacking. In which case HE doesn't seem to think she's such a drama queen."
One does not negate the other. Dad can be sorry he didn't react, and Mom can still be a drama queen about the whole thing.

"And frankly, I fail to see how it is being a drama queen to have to rescue your own son from a totally undeserved verbal attack while nobody, including her own husband, was lifting a finger to put an end to it!"
The drama queen part wasn't her "rescuing" her son, it was everything else. The crying, the boycotting, the demanding her husband be as angry as she is, the total disregard for her son's feelings in the letter, the apology demand from EVERYONE else there that night...

"I also fail to see how being an abusive prick becomes okay the minute dementia enters the picture."
It's not okay, but what else do you want them to do? You acknowledge she shouldn't demand an apology. Her husband has apologized for his lack of action. Presumably her son has recovered (not that we know from the letter). LW1's tears have dried. What else do you want, here? It sucks that it happened. Life lesson for the kid and then everyone can move on.

"P.S.: You went and COUNTED the words? O-kay...."
My spending 20 seconds in Microsoft Word doesn't negate that fact that over 10% of her letter was "me"s and "I"s, does it?

Re: beth

More likely than that, is that LW2 is describing people playing angybirds on their smartphones, being on facebook, texting friends, etc. I doubt that these "young adults" were managing their home businesses and running fortune 500 companies...

Re: Zoe
"Only when she has to dash to his rescue does he become a "child"."
Yes! When he needs rescueing, then he's a child again to her, that's it exactly! I know exactly how she feels. Anything that would threaten my daughter in front of me, I'd fly to the rescue of MY BABY, and she's turning 39 this spring. Motherly instinct 101. You'll see!

"What else do you want, here?"
Nothing more than what I said in my original post. Second paragraph.

@ Zoe

You are fabulous!! I think I'm in love with you!!! :-)

Lise: RE your daughter sick. Yes, my boys--33, 30, 27 all ended up with the bug around the same time. Phone rings. MAAAAAAAAOOOOOMMMMM! What am I supposed to take for this. So they listen and you tell them. Will they take what you said? Gargle? Do the Netti Pot? Hardly, not likely, no way.
BUT they still call MOM to tell me how they feel. Son last night had barely any voice. I said take a pot of water and heat it up. YEP did that. OK now drop that big onion sliced up into it? WHAT? Waste the onion? OK, rub some peppermint oil on your templles---NO THAT STINGS! Do you have a temp? Not sure, can't find the thermometer YOU sent home with them.
No matter what your cupboard is filled with in the line of get well (naturpathic style) would not get it done unless they were on your couch.
Son 3 3 seldom got sick BUT his first flu he missed school for during HS---was so funny. He would throw up. Then walk to the kitchen to eat. DUH. Then throw up. And walk back into the kitchen. He finally asked HOW DO YOU STOP THIS?
I said QUIT EATING.
But these are the same guys I go to when I hear A U-Joint clunk issue or question if the water pump is correctly working, or if the altenator is acting up.

Which brings it to GUESS WHAT THEY GOT ME FOR CHRISTMAS. An air compressor combined with a battery charger-jump unit. Now, I should not have to call road service either if I get a flat, need a jump, etc.
We had 63 degrees yesterday. In the throws of the dead of winter in MN, where get below zero.

Re: beth #38
Beth, you are an exception at what is being discussed. Simply doing your job is different than locking yourself out of the world around you 'just cause you could'.

I am a multi tasker as well, but love it when my cell phone disappears into the bottom of my purse or gym bag, house phone sits in the cradle and all is right with my world with no one else keeping an electronic leash on me.

One thing, with my husband's 50+ years with his same company, he had times to be at a moments notice. This was before cell phones and even affordable cordless phones. Back when the only cell phones were carried around in a big leather bag--I remember our vets having them for farm calls. Do leave the state and head to my parents in SD for a few days meant a list of phone numbers with his secretary. And since my mom functioned on the IF THE PHONE RINGS, ANSWER IT as there was no answering machine. If in the barn, out on a horse riding the range, all calls waited. Emergencies meant someone driving the pastures with the pickup to find you.


Even now, his recent boss retired--and then found out my husband had his cell phone and never gave out the number to the company. Again, the one who was the secretary of yester-year is now in a top position of her own--so I gave her MY cell phone number. Still a form of is it really something that can't wait until Monday 5 am. And if it can't they call the house or my cell.

LW3 - And somehow he's going to suddenly be gracious when he sees you measley $600.00 check? Hardly. Continue to not give him gifts forever......

LW1, you gush about how this loving, accepting family welcomed you and accepted your son as their own.
Then you throw a hissy fit because they didn't fall to their knees and apologize when a member of their family who had dementia had a tantrum around your almost-adult son. It sounds like they were shellshocked, embarrassed and didn't know what to do. Instead of forgiving them for being human, you're fuming about it weeks or months later.
The others who have pointed out that your son is 17, not 7, are right. Try growing up, and being loving and accepting yourself. And forgiving. Ever heard of forgiveness? They have to live with grandpa. How about a little compassion for what they have to go through every day they're around him?
You say you "want your husband to be as angry as you are." This suggests to me that you have serious boundary and developmental problems. Your husband has his feelings, and you have yours. Congratulations -- you've added your feelings to the ones he now has to handle. Stop making this all about you, and stop trying to micromanage your husband's feelings.
Your son may be "your child" but you need to grow up and realize that he is not "a" child. He's one year short of being a legal adult by most definitions. He's not going to wilt and die when an adult has a senile moment.
I can picture a lot of things you might be, including embarrassed for making such a big deal about this, but "furious"? You really need a reality check. The world is not about you, and your precious son is no longer an infant who needs protecting on the level you seem to feel he does.
In short, get over it and get over yourself hon.

In response to nobody in particular, as a mother of a well-loved and raised 29 year-old-son, I do not consider him a baby any longer. Yes, he will always be my son, but to me, he is an independent man. It does not good to cripple our children with feelings that are not realistic to the current situation. There is not much I would not do for him, but I know he is happy that his mother respects him as the man he is.
And loving your posts, Shirley!!

----NOTE: Alzheimer's has been definitively linked
to excessive television watching ---Aluminum/Cadmium
and Barium oxides (i.e. CHEM-trails). This is by design.
BTW --the REAL 'innies' of Glbalism and EUGENICS have
collator therapies unavailable to the general pubic.

FURTHER, news comes out that estrogen loaded Bisphenol A,
definitively linked to sterility, cancer etc. ---is now now
only in virtually ALLLLL plastics, packaging, bottles, can,
beer, processed food ----BUT! has now been revealed
to have been put in ink, printer paper, papers of all
kind ------most effectively, ---TOILET PAPER.

SO, DO monitor your estrogen levels
and lay into the capstone corporations
who are doing this ---for EUGENICS!

Oh Chris, you make me blush!

Okay, so LW1 is overreacting. But how much trouble would it have been for somebody in the family to say to the 17-year-old, "Sorry about that, buddy. Grandpa doesn't know what he's saying. Try not to feel bad, because you didn't do anything wrong."

Re: Van Wickle

Why couldn't LW1 say just that? She's his mother, she's part of the family, she's the one who "rescued" him. Seems like the most logical choice.

my sympathies to the first letter writer. since the old man had always been nice to her, she was likely not prepared for the abusive side of him to surface when the dementia started. i'm guessing his family automatically crawled into their shells, sort of like an unprepared student, thinking 'please don't notice me.' that would have been my reaction, too. not an admirable one, but one designed for self-preservation. i can understand that she is angry with the family for not coming to her son's rescue. instead of getting angry with everyone, she might want to consider teaching her son how to react when grandpa acts this way. explain to him that it is an illness and he is not responsible. it's too bad that the family didn't respond, but not everyone knows how to respond helpfully. let's hope the husband will grow a pair and tell dad his comments are inappropriate.
in my husband's family, we have an aunt who has dementia. she is convinced her eldest granddaughter is a prostitute rather than her granddaughter, who visits the family with the intend of seducing aunt's husband. the granddaughter remembers her grandmother as a kind and loving family member and pays no attention to the outbursts.

Re: alien07110

Alien, your responses are always so kind and well-considered. I mean this as a total compliment...you seem like an old soul.

Re: Lise Brouillette

Lise, if you raise your children to be independent adults, you do not have to continue to baby them. In my opinion, the goal in raising children should be to make them independent, self-sufficient adults who wll make the world better, and be as willing to sacrifice for you as you would be to sacrifice for them. If you want to continue to coddle your middle-aged daughter, that is your choice. I am proud of the man I raised who would and has taken care of me when my husband is off travelling and I needed some help around the house. You need to understand that there are many views of the world, and your way is not the only way.

Re: Shirley

First of all....loving your comments in a general way. Fed up with the know-it-all myself also, so I just do not read the know-it-all's comments any longer.

What touched me about your post is about my father as well. He drank way too much when we were kids, and the drinking had an impact on our lives but he was never abusive to us kids directly. However, around the time I got married, he stopped drinking completely, and his grandchildren never saw that side of him. He was a loving grandfather and he is missed.

Re: Carly O

And where did you get the idea that I'm coddling my middle-aged daughter? Not from anything *I* said.

"You need to understand that there are many views of the world, and your way is not the only way."
I never said my view was the only one, on the contrary. You're projecting, I think.

Re: Carly O
For the most part, I don't engage because there is simply no point. The words may be aggravating, but I have found that people who need to force their perception of the world onto everyone else are more to be pitied than anything. It takes a high level of insecurity to to never be able to accept any other view, and frankly I don't think it's worth the energy to argue. But...once in awhile, I just have to vent. My thanks to everyone for their kind responses.
I wouldn't wish my childhood on anyone. But I have to say that growing up with my dad, and then seeing how he was in his later years has been a valuable lesson. Sometimes when I am dealing with a particularly difficult coworker, and thinking that it's always going to be this way because he will NEVER change, I remember Dad and it gives me hope, which helps me be a little more patient, when what I really want to do is drop-kick some goofball all over the building. And I am glad that my bad memories of him will die with me, and his grandchildren can pass on stories of their wonderful Papa. We've never lied to any of them, or hidden the past. They know that he did some really rotten things, but I think they have all gotten the message as well, that people can change, if they really want to, and the rest of us let them.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the idea that kids should be allowed to treat a gift or a giver with disdain because the gift isn't a toy, or it isn't exactly the one they wanted, or it isn't the right colour. I'm sick and tired of hearing that an ungrateful kid should be pandered to, in order to garner their approval. I come from a big family and we have lots of children between us. I have a niece who was excited about a gift, no matter what it was. Even at 3 years old, this child would run to the gift-giver with a big hug and boisterous thank you for any gift at all. Mittens, hats, slippers, pyjamas, it didn't matter: she knew how to accept a gift and it was a pleasure to give her one. Her brother was the same. I admired my sister for teaching that to her children and I taught mine the same way. If you gave my daughter a bag of dirt for her birthday, she would exclaim "oh, that's great, now I can plant those seeds I got!" Giving them clothes is not rude, insulting, or a punishment. Children, like their parents, need to appreciate the thought behind a gift and learn to accept it graciously and at least pretend to like it. 35 years later, I still give gifts to that niece and nephew but I haven't given gifts to the "oh, big deal, another sweatshirt" nieces and nephews for more than 20 years. I don't know and, quite frankly, don't care, if they even know why.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the idea that kids should be allowed to treat a gift or a giver with disdain because the gift isn't a toy, or it isn't exactly the one they wanted, or it isn't the right colour. I'm sick and tired of hearing that an ungrateful kid should be pandered to, in order to garner their approval. I come from a big family and we have lots of children between us. I have a niece who was excited about a gift, no matter what it was. Even at 3 years old, this child would run to the gift-giver with a big hug and boisterous thank you for any gift at all. Mittens, hats, slippers, pyjamas, it didn't matter: she knew how to accept a gift and it was a pleasure to give her one. Her brother was the same. I admired my sister for teaching that to her children and I taught mine the same way. If you gave my daughter a bag of dirt for her birthday, she would exclaim "oh, that's great, now I can plant those seeds I got!" Giving them clothes is not rude, insulting, or a punishment. Children, like their parents, need to appreciate the thought behind a gift and learn to accept it graciously and at least pretend to like it. 35 years later, I still give gifts to that niece and nephew but I haven't given gifts to the "oh, big deal, another sweatshirt" nieces and nephews for more than 20 years. I don't know and, quite frankly, don't care, if they even know why.

LW3
Thank you for your informative gasconade on teaching the young'uns a lesson. I imagine your epithet has changed from Auntie Undies to Auntie Savings & Loan.
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