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Dreams of "What If?"
Dear Margo: I'm a 20-something woman engaged to the best man I've ever known. I am beyond ecstatic to be getting married. My problem has nothing to do with him and everything to do with a guy who was one of my best friends in college. This guy and I …Read more.
Afraid of Little Girls
Dear Margo: Between the ages of 6 and 10, I was severely bullied, but I was given the impression by grownups that such behavior was perfectly normal for children and I shouldn't be so sensitive. (I now realize they probably did not pay attention to …Read more.
Every Problem Does Not Have a Solution
Dear Margo: Many years ago, I got a call informing me that my son was arrested and being held on $1 million bail. That was when I first learned that he is a pedophile.
He has just completed his 20-year prison sentence, and during that time I learned …Read more.
When You Live on a One-Way Street
Dear Margo: My patience has run out with the three living members of my family. My father, his mother and my brother have gone through periods of not talking to each other or to me. My brother wants nothing to do with my father or our grandmother, …Read more.
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When Things Are Way Beyond Messy
Dear Margo: I've been with "Joe" for 18 mostly happy years. He has wonderful, loving qualities, but he also has some learning disabilities, little self-confidence and difficulty connecting with people. He was physically and emotionally abused throughout childhood. He's also had several losses. I have compassion for his emptiness and loneliness, but I'm frustrated because rather than feeling the emotions, he holds on to objects.
Joe is a hoarder and a clutterer. Our basement is filled to the ceiling; he pays for a huge storage unit; and he's filled two of our three small bedrooms with "stuff." I insist on keeping the kitchen, living room, bedroom and my office relatively livable. When we entertain, he scrambles to put his things "away" (into the hoarding rooms — sometimes in boxes and sometimes just thrown in). I've made several attempts to help him get rid of old unread newspapers, VHS tapes of shows he's recorded and broken electronic equipment. On a couple of occasions, he became enraged and got all the stuff back from inside a dumpster — in the rain.
We went to a psychiatrist for a while (at my insistence) and made a little progress, but Joe refused medication. He tried Clutterers Anonymous but didn't like it. Now he willingly goes to a hoarders support group and has collected every book ever written about cluttering and hoarding! I know going through junk is a lonely process unless someone helps, so I hired two different professional organizers, but they or he lost motivation. Is there anyone who can help? Joe has health insurance for psychotherapy. Or am I the one who needs help accepting this? — Bogged Down
Dear Bog: Being a neatnik myself, I feel for you living with a hoarder and all that useless junk. I think psychiatric help is really the only answer. "Collecting" beyond reason is a sickness, and a professional would deal with the underlying causes that make Joe think "stuff" is the solution to his problems. Old newspapers are no remedy for abuse; talking is. If meds are indicated, you should ask him why he is resistant to something that would make his life easier — and healthier.
As for your accepting the situation, only you know your tolerance. I don't know whether you've ever tried this, but you might say "it's me or the junk." And you also might suggest that he start reading all those books he's collected on hoarding. — Margo, correctively
Questions of What Is "Owed"
Dear Margo: I guess my question is, in broad terms: Am I my brother's keeper? How much does the sensible, hardworking child owe ne'er-do-well sibs or parents? I was the "good" one in our family: well-behaved, helpful, studious. My two sibs, for different reasons, did not grow up to be happy or productive people. One of them got into drugs and never got out; the other has had a great many health problems and just seemed to suck up all my parents' time and energy. — Ambivalent
Dear Am: Your situation is more common than you think. I'm betting you found your parents behaving neutrally — i.e., not rewarding you for your good behavior and insufficiently dealing with the "bad" sibs. In the case of a serious illness, it is instinctive (and unfortunate), but parents tend to concentrate on the sick child to the detriment of the siblings. Resentment is the result — which is what you're feeling.
My suggestion is that you develop (or nurture) your sense of self based on reality rather than on your parents' behavior toward you. You may find a therapist helpful for this. As for your obligations to anyone else in the family, I believe they are what you want them to be. By my lights, DNA is only meaningful in crime investigations. And not everyone agrees with me. — Margo, attitudinally
Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via the online form at www.creators.com/dearmargo. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.
COPYRIGHT 2011 MARGO HOWARD
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM
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Comments
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11 Comments | Post Comment
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My aunt is a hoarder. Taped to her fridge are newspaper clippings from when Bill Clinton was in office, along with party invitetions from 7 years ago. Her kids pictures are still taped to the wall after 20 years.
Her basement has been crammed with cardboard tubes from paper towel rolls, old margarine tubs, cottege cheese containers, cereal boxes, old magazines, old newspapers, etc. She used to hoard these because she thought her kids would need them for school projects, but now that all of her kids are married with kids of their own, she figures her grandchildren will need them.
For the past 20 years, my father and my uncle have had an arrangement. Every 6 months, they load it all into a car and bring it to a paper recycling depot a few miles away. My aunt barely notices it's gone.
I also worked with a teacher who was a compulsive hoarder. I got so fed up with all her junk jamming the closet, that I boxed it up, put her name on it, and put it in the back of the schoolbook storeroom. It wasn't found until 2 years later.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Rose
Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:53 AM
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LW1--"Joe is a hoarder and a clutterer." "Now he willingly goes to a hoarders support group and has collected every book ever written about cluttering and hoarding!" Well, at least 'Joe' is consistent! Hoarding and other related obsessive compulsive disorders are serious and very difficult for those of us without the compulsion to understand. While you simply want to go through your house and rid yourself of the useless junk, doing so would severely injure Joe who, as you understand, "rather than feeling the emotions, he holds on to objects." It's clear from your letter that you're at your breaking point. Something has to give or the marriage will be in serious trouble. Sit Joe down and explain to him that while you love him dearly, you cannot continue to live surrounded by the talismans of his broken childhood and family losses. Inform him that unless he resumes treatment in the care of a trained psychiatrist specializing in hoarding disorders, you will be seeking the services of a divorce lawyer. Good luck!
LW2--"How much does the sensible, hardworking child owe ne'er-do-well sibs or parents?" You owe them absolutely nothing. You made your choices as they made theirs. As you climb back up Mt. Olympus, remember these words from an unknown author: "Being good is commendable, but only when it is combined with doing good is it useful."
Comment: #2
Posted by: Chris
Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:19 AM
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LW1-
I agree with both the Margo ('only you know your tolerance") and Chris ("It's clear from your letter that you're at your breaking point. Something has to give or the marriage will be in serious trouble"). This is a case of the LW asking heself, "am I better off with or without him", taking into consideration that the "him" includes the junk at this point. Yes, I think she needs to sit him down and explain the facts of life, but if he pulls a "love me, love my junk", I think an ultimatum is in order.
LW2-
Are you your brothers' keeper? No, you're not, especially since they don't seem to be lacking keepers. You're you own keeper, especially since you seem to be the only one you have. What Margo said.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:07 AM
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Re: Lise Brouillette
True. And, for what it's worth, I think it would be helpful if we stopped giving the term 'ultimatum' such a bum rap. Ultimatums are actually things we give ourself. It sounds like the LW is getting ready to issue herSELF an ultimatum, which she is hoping to communicate as effectively and compassionately as possible, to her husband. I feel for her -- good luck.
Comment: #4
Posted by: deb
Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:11 AM
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Re: deb
"Ultimatums are actually things we give ourself."
Come to think of it, you're quite right. Hm.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:14 PM
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LW1: 18 years and its just now bothering you? LOL - Maybe you've finally reached your threshhold and its time to move on.
LW2: You owe them no more than they've given you. If they expect more from you than stop taking their calls.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Diana
Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:16 PM
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I don't know if anyone noticed this, but one of LW#2's siblings was described as someone with "a great many health problems" since childhood. People don't choose to have disabling health problems, particularly as children; someone like that isn't a "ne'er do well", they're disabled. If the mention of the drug-addicted sibling is cut out, the letter tells a very different tale:
"Am I my brother's keeper? How much does the sensible, hardworking child owe ne'er-do-well sib or parents? I was the "good" one in our family: well-behaved, helpful, studious. My sib did not grow up to be a happy or productive person; he has had a great many health problems and just seemed to suck up all my parents' time and energy."
That he was only shortchanged in parental attention (i.e. not of food, clothing, toys, etc.) means that his parents were probably trying very hard to be good to all three kids -- and it's rare for an adult that grew up with a physically ill sibling to not realize that. One of his brothers may be disabled, and the other one likely mentally ill (statistical reason for drug abuse), but at least they probably don't have whatever the heck is wrong with *him*...
Comment: #7
Posted by: Xyzzy
Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:12 PM
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"Ultimatums are things we give ourselves." I think that's genius. I'm gonna pass that along if that's okay.
Comment: #8
Posted by: limniade
Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:17 PM
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I have to say I think Margo's answer to the Hoarder's wife, like many of her responses to people with mental health issues is seriously lacking. I deal with hoarders a lot in my work; it can be a very intractible problem and is very difficult for families to understand and live with.Here are a few concrete suggestions. Hoarding is considered by most in the field a form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder ( although that is still being studied). This woman's husband needs someone who specializes in this problem, not your garden variety psychiatrist. The website www.ocfoundation.org has a Compulsive Hoarding section and should have lists of practitioners who may even do home visiting, which is the best way to help these people. It is a slow process. Maybe the wife wants to consider a separation of some type while he works on this If they are over 60, she could try her local Area Agency on Aging ( Call the Eldercare Locator 1-800--677-1116 to find the agency that covers her town) which also may have resources. Good luck and as for Margo, I wish you would get yourself some consultants when these type of letters come in. This is not the first letter of yours I have read where I felt your answer was a variation of "there's not much you can do".
Comment: #9
Posted by: Marcia Perna
Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:37 AM
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Re: Marcia Perna
Your suggestions are all very relevant and you are right that there is plenty that can be done - if the hoarder is willing to help himself. As you suggested, a trial separation might shake him awake, but if he prefers his stuff to his wife, there indeed isn't much she can do.
As for today's DIY project on today's Annies, the "There isn't much you can't do" applies to the ones with a problem, who yet refuse to do anything about it. If you have suggestions about people like that, I'M ALL EARS, I sure could use a novel approach.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:21 AM
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OCD ruined my marriage, and that is what LW1 is dealing with. People with OCD can't control themselves, so they try to control their environment and those around them. My ex drove me insane. It was not the junk, however, that did me in. It was his weird rules I had to follow or risk a good yelling or hours of silence. I could stack papers and clothes to the ceiling in a chair, but I could not leave socks on the floor. Our dinner was "rotting on the counter" if I didn't go immediately after dinner and put the leftovers away.
The day I kicked him out was an amazingly freeing day. Is it mental illness? Sure. But I'm not going to spend the rest of my life being verbally abused and living in filth. I begged him to get help and was told I had the problem. We went to a therapist twice and he lied to her. That was it for me.
I am with an amazing man now, and he would never ever treat me this way. My ex will be forever alone, because no woman will ever put up with what I did.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Nakita747
Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:58 AM
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