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Dreams of "What If?"
Dear Margo: I'm a 20-something woman engaged to the best man I've ever known. I am beyond ecstatic to be getting married. My problem has nothing to do with him and everything to do with a guy who was one of my best friends in college. This guy and I …Read more.
Afraid of Little Girls
Dear Margo: Between the ages of 6 and 10, I was severely bullied, but I was given the impression by grownups that such behavior was perfectly normal for children and I shouldn't be so sensitive. (I now realize they probably did not pay attention to …Read more.
Every Problem Does Not Have a Solution
Dear Margo: Many years ago, I got a call informing me that my son was arrested and being held on $1 million bail. That was when I first learned that he is a pedophile.
He has just completed his 20-year prison sentence, and during that time I learned …Read more.
When You Live on a One-Way Street
Dear Margo: My patience has run out with the three living members of my family. My father, his mother and my brother have gone through periods of not talking to each other or to me. My brother wants nothing to do with my father or our grandmother, …Read more.
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The Bloodier the Better. Uh, No.
Dear Margo: I have a friend who's been in an abusive relationship since her marriage seven years ago. My friend claims she can't leave her husband because she's in love with him and because she believes marriage is forever. Her husband has caused the police to intervene, and he's put her in the hospital more than once. I fear for my friend's safety. When she's with him, she is a completely different person from who she is when it is just the two of us. What can I do to help her if she doesn't want to help herself? — Concerned Friend
Dear Con: Not much. Extricating oneself from an abusive relationship is a do-it-yourself project ... not unlike deciding it's time to get sober. Sad but true, some people have a misguided idea of what love is and how much a partner is supposed to tolerate. Your friend's notion that "marriage is forever," given what's going on in hers, is rationalization and extremely masochistic, at that.
After seven years, I'm sure she is totally brainwashed and feeling quite worthless. This terrible man, in her mind, is the last train out of the station. Such ideas often depend on how the person was raised and what they saw, filtered through their own sense of self. I would give it one last try. Sit her down and say she needn't be this man's pinata and emotional slave. Tell her marriage is not forever — any more than a broken arm is — that there is help, and that you hope she exits the relationship before he kills her. Then you will know you played your trump card, but do understand, in the end, you cannot control the situation. — Margo, forlornly
Sorry, Wrong Number
Dear Margo: I have been in an intimate relationship with a man for a year. We are plus and minus 60 years of age. He enjoys my company, as I do his. The issue is that he refuses to share his cell number with me. He has given me his home number. I have explained how having the cell number would be a convenience for me in communicating with him. He has my cell number, but doesn't call me using his cellphone. He said it was a work phone, but later admitted that prior girlfriends, family and other friends have this number. He isn't married, and I have been to his home many times.
I feel slighted and hurt that I am not included in the group of people to whom he gives this number. I have wondered whether I should end the relationship on this one matter. I am not looking for this to be a permanent relationship, but am just wondering about this one issue at the present time. I have tried dropping this matter several times, but it is bothering me again. Your opinion? — Hurting
Dear Hurt: As a rule, it is the cellphone number that is offered and the home number that is withheld — usually because there's a wife at the other end. You established that he is not married, so it's kind of quirky that he let you know other girlfriends (plus family and friends) have the number — but not you. It sounds like some version of nyah-nyah, I-know-something-you-don't-know.
If he's trying to annoy you — or even if he isn't — ask for an explanation. If none is forthcoming, tell him it's been swell, but his reticence about such a matter is a deal-breaker for you. It is especially convenient that you don't have designs on him as a permanent partner. — Margo, openly
Dear Margo is written by Margo Howard, Ann Landers' daughter. All letters must be sent via the online form at www.creators.com/dearmargo. Due to a high volume of e-mail, not all letters will be answered.
COPYRIGHT 2011 MARGO HOWARD
DISTRIBUTED BY CREATORS.COM
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Comments
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22 Comments | Post Comment
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LW1: I would buy the book How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved by Sandra L. Brown for your friend. Granted she's not only "involved" with a dangerous man, she's married to him. However, this book may open her eyes. Men, like her husband, are described in this book as are the types of women that get involved with these types of men. There are also numerous stories from the women themselves in the book. She should see herself in some of their stories and perhaps it will wake her up. This book also encourages women to take responsibility for their own safety, shows them how to choose men wisely, and teaches them how not to make the same mistake twice.
Comment: #1
Posted by: corinne
Fri Dec 9, 2011 2:14 AM
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LW1: Yes, if there's any books or advice you can provide still, you should try, and do let her know that she deserves more and that not every marriage is forever. And that you'll be there for her when she decides she's had enough. Try to be as much of a lifeline to morality as you can, but ultimately it's her decision.
However, if you yourself witness anything violent, don't hesitate to call the police, either.
LW2: Try one more time to get him to explain what it is about his cell phone that he keeps it from you, but if he can't give you a good answer, then yes, back out of this arrangement. You can even tell him you're uncomfortable with the situation and you have to "go with your gut" if you have to tell him something. There MAY be a reasonable explanation for this behavior, but I'm hard pressed to think of it, so it does seem that either it's something shady he's hiding or else this is his signal to you that he also doesn't see this relationship going anywhere, and he doesn't want you to have his cell number when the two of you break up, which he thinks is coming sooner rather than later.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Mike H
Fri Dec 9, 2011 4:05 AM
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That "forever marriage" will be quite short as its likely that one day the husband will kill the wife, perhaps without meaning too.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Kelle
Fri Dec 9, 2011 6:48 AM
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LW1-
You can't. All you can do is be there for her when she finally grows a backbone - providing he doesn't kill her first. And he might. DON'T badmouth him to her - seh'll only fly to his defense and find yet more reasons to love him. DO give her Susan Forward's books, especially Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them. You never know, perhaps she'll have an epiphany. She'll certainly find herself and her hubby in there. Can't hurt. Concentrate on being good company so that she finds a refuge in you. Call the police yourself if you witness anything violent. There is nothing more you can do.
One of the most painful things for anyone is to watch someone you love self-destruct and refuse help. It makes you feel so heartbroken and helpless... You have all my sympathies.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Dec 9, 2011 6:51 AM
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LW1--"What can I do to help her if she doesn't want to help herself?" Sadly, nothing. My only advice is to continue to be a loving and supportive friend. Let your friend know that you're there for her no matter what. Also let her know that she always has a safe haven with you (though I strongly suggest you take steps to ensure your safety in case her deranged husband decides to get physical with you, too.) It also wouldn't be a bad idea, if you're financially able, to put aside some money every month for your friend in case she ever wises up and decides to leave the bastard. She'll appreciate it more than you'll ever know!
LW2--"I feel slighted and hurt that I am not included in the group of people to whom he gives this number." Why? From a man's perspective I'd bet my right arm that a prior girlfriend pestered the man non-stop. She probably called him at him, called him at work, called him while he ran errands, called him morning noon and night to prattle on about nothing. Once he dumped this chatterbox, he probably vowed never to go through that again. Your boyfriend has given you his home number and you've established he's not attached. Let this go before you find yourself let go.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Chris
Fri Dec 9, 2011 7:00 AM
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If they've only been dating a year, and not too seriously ("intimate relationship" doesn't necessarily mean "in it for the long haul"), perhaps the gentleman is still trying to retain some sense of independence. Maybe the LW calls too often for his taste already. Maybe he's on a pay-by-the-minute plan and wants to keep costs low. Maybe he just doesn't like using his cell phone much. There are a number of reasons why he could be reluctant to divulge his cell phone number. Warning bells just aren't going off for me here. She has several other ways of maintaining contact -- his work and home numbers apparently aren't a secret. If the fellow doesn't want to be on call 24 hours a day, that's his prerogative.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Cher
Fri Dec 9, 2011 7:03 AM
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@Chris -- you and me, buddy! Simpatico! And not for the first time either!
Comment: #7
Posted by: Cher
Fri Dec 9, 2011 7:13 AM
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LW1 -- you've gotten excellent advice already. I will simply chime in and agree that the best thing you can do is just be there for her. And Chris' suggestion of putting money aside for her should she ever wise up is excellent -- as is taking steps to protect yourself should the husband eventually turn his wrath on you (which is likely if he sees you as one of the reasons the wife left him). I'd also suggest you learn as much about the local resources that exist -- shelters, local domestic violence laws, etc. If she ever does want to get out, you want to be ready to help her.
LW2 -- There are any number of reasons -- not all of them nefarious -- this guy is withholding his phone number from you. Here's my guess: even if he offers you a completely harmless (and true) reason that he hasn't given you his phone number, this is never going to be enough for you. And, at this point, now that's it become such a "thing" for you, I suspect that even if he finally gives you the number, you are not going to be satisfied even with that, because you will continue to wonder why it took him so long to give it to you, and you'll perseverate over the idea that he only gave it to you because you forced his hand, etc. So, unless you can really just let this go (and by your own account, you have tried this already a number of times), you're going to have let this guy go.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Lisa
Fri Dec 9, 2011 7:35 AM
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LW1: Here's how you help your friend. Go find someone in the seedy part of town, give them the work address , name, and description of her husband (don't want them to know where she lives), and give them $100 to beat the shit out of him. Think I'm kidding? I saw this happen in the army; several guys from the unit hired a bum to beat the shit out of the unit trouble maker. He never caused any more trouble after that. Bullys don't like it when someone tougher gets in their face, they usually cry like little girls.
Comment: #9
Posted by: Kim
Fri Dec 9, 2011 7:46 AM
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@Kim, maybe that has worked for some situations, but I'd also bet it's illegal! And could easily backfire.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Mike H
Fri Dec 9, 2011 8:16 AM
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Ditto what Chris and Cher said - and one thing more. LW2 gave the game away when she said " I have explained how having the cell number would be a convenience for me in communicating with him" Here's a news flash: His telephone is for HIS convenience, not yours. And if, as he said, he uses it for business, the last thing he needs is another girlfriend calling him up to yammer at him when he's trying to work.
I once went through the ordeal of trying to help an abused friend get away from her live-in boyfriend. Where on the one hand she would talk privately about the things he had done to her and she was secretly planning to get away from him and go back to Australia, at the last minute she kept trying to sabotage our efforts to help her. Was even going to let him drive her to the airport (as if she really believed he would!) The night before, he pulled the phone out of the wall while we were talking, and I called the police. They stood in the house and watched as she loaded her stuff into my car - the main reason they got involved was because she had a 3 year old child. But even though we physically got her to the airport and on the plane, after that, she was the same old girl who believed that she "loved" him and he "loved" her and all the other BS women tell themselves about abusers. There's a point where you can't do anything but hope they wake up.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Fri Dec 9, 2011 8:25 AM
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LW1: Why are you friends with this woman? Do you really think she is a victim? Abusees find abusers and vice versa. She's never going to leave him. The sick part is she gets something out of it. I suggest you leave.
Comment: #12
Posted by: Diana
Fri Dec 9, 2011 9:34 AM
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LW2: How are you going to "end the relationship" when you can live without his cellphone number?
Comment: #13
Posted by: Myra
Fri Dec 9, 2011 11:06 AM
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@Maggie, those are good points, but how do you account for the fact that the guy gives out the cell number to just about everybody else in his life, including former girlfriends? There's something else going on, and it could be that a previous girlfriend burned him or hounded him, or that there's something about *this* LW that makes the guy gunshy.
But she has the home phone, so it seems weird that the cellphone is off limits, too.
In any case, given that the LW is being singled out here -- others have the cell, she's the only one who doesn't seem to -- it really doesn't sound promising for this relationship to have much of a future. Regardless of whether she's being needy or he's being shady (or both!).
Comment: #14
Posted by: Mike H
Fri Dec 9, 2011 11:30 AM
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Mike, when I read that she said "prior girlfriends" had been given the number, it sounded to me as though he had learned his lesson with them. What we don't know - but can only guess - is that the LW is one of those chatterboxes who will call or text (or twitter!) over anything and expect people (in this case 'him') to take notice and want a response. In any case, his phone isn't for her convenience, as I think you'd agree. And if my guess is right about why he doesn't want her to have it, it's not exactly the kind of thing you tell a girlfriend. ("Hey, you're good in the sack, but would you shut up already?")
Comment: #15
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Fri Dec 9, 2011 12:23 PM
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LW2: I've been reading comment on this one for the last two days on various sites, and my advice to the LW is to rethink the relationship.
Many issues can be at play here, but the bottom line is that these two people cannot communicate. She wants his cell phone number and is offended because he won't give it to her. He won't give it to her for whatever reason. The fact that neither one can respect the other in order to find some kind of compromise and to effectively communicate WHY means they don't have much of a relationship at all.
It depends on what the LW wants from a relationship. If you want someone for a roll in the hay, dinner sometimes, a chat (from home) a couple of times a week and leave it at that, then cool. if you want a relationship built on communication and trust, then leave this relationship, because this aint what you are looking for.
(PS: I think the LW already knows that and is just wanting validation. this is what my boss used to call "the little voice screaming at you")
Comment: #16
Posted by: nanchan
Fri Dec 9, 2011 12:41 PM
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@nanchan -- I totally agree with you. That's why in my previous comment I said it actually doesn't even really matter what his reason is, whether it's a "good" reason or not. At this point, she's unlikely to ever get over his refusal (or initial reluctance, if he finally does break down and give her the number), and so this relationship is doomed. And yes, I think she already knows this, too.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Lisa
Fri Dec 9, 2011 1:29 PM
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LW1 - What does it matter if you have his number or not? Even if you had it, he wouldn't answer if he didn't want to talk to you that way anyway (and going to voicemail charges him for a minute of time). I'd just let this one go.
Comment: #18
Posted by: Paul W
Fri Dec 9, 2011 2:44 PM
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@Maggie, I love it! ("You're good in the sack but shut up already!")
The trouble here is that she herself says she tried to drop the matter but can't. But since she's also not looking for this to be permanent, maybe this really is the signal that this has run its course.
Comment: #19
Posted by: Mike H
Fri Dec 9, 2011 7:25 PM
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@ Diana: SERIOUSLY? Blame the victim?? You must be very fortunate in never having been in an abusive relationship or known anyone who has. Your lack of information on the subject certainly has skewed your outlook.
Comment: #20
Posted by: Kitty
Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:34 AM
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Sorry, I have to agree with Diana. Yes, there are plenty of women (and men, and children) who are trapped in abusive relationships and feel powerless to leave for one reason or another, whether it's fear of being killed, feelings that they deserve it, or fear of losing their children to the abusive parent in a custody battle. But there are also abused spouses, and I have known a few, both male and female, who do get something out of such relationships. One because they liked to be abusive themselves, and being hit gave them the excuse that they could hit too, without guilt. And another because, like Manchuusen's Symdrome, they truly seemed to get a buzz off of the attention and sympathy that living with an abusive spouse or partner garnered them, not to mention playing the role of a martyr. So while it's fair and right to say that "most" victims of spousal abuse are truly trapped, saying that no victims carry on an addictive/enabling pattern of behaviour with abusive people puts too simplistic a spin on a complex social problem that has many contradictory facets.
Comment: #21
Posted by: Jane
Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:01 AM
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Re: Jane & Diana
You both are partially right, in the sense that there definitely ARE some people who get their jollies out of being victims - both men and women, BTW.
If I look at my ex-(late) husband... The way he treated me, and the woman who followed me... was the exact same way his last partner treated HIM. And that is because, people who function in an abusive relationship because this is what they do, WILL CHOOSE ONE ROLE OR THE OTHER. They are either the abused or the abusee. Pick one. They change part, but not play.
How do you figure you're dealing with someone like that? My own recipe is the number of years. The genuinely trapped people don't put up with this yurunda for decades. But... when the person (male or female) has been complaining for years and years and years... De-fi-ni-te-ly, they're getting something out of it. As well as getting people feeling sorry for their poor selves.
And you know what? What I have seen is that THOSE are exactly the kind who turn into an abuser the first chance they get - because they change part, but not play.
Comment: #22
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:43 PM
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