Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1 you should be extremely careful what you assume. We had something eerily similar happen in our family, and it turned out my uncle's sweet as a church mouse super quiet decent and kind wife had a major klepto problem. Worse, my uncle KNEW and let my cousin's boyfriend who was only a 15 year old child get thrown under a bus to protect his wife! The only reason my stepmom ever found out it was her brother's wife was because my cousin finally told her one day, fed up of all the covering.

In another similar instance, a good friend of mine had $800 stolen from a safe during a party. The only people who knew the safe password was she, her 17 year old son, and her business partner. Her business partner was all "you know, I don't mean to suggest, or imply, but..." and implicated her son. She only caught him because he screwed up and mentioned the amount missing and she had never told him how much was missing. So she said "Karl, how did you know X amount was missing?" and he choked and fessed up. This man had NO money problems at all; he was just greedy! and she trusted him as a stand up guy completely.

Re: I'm with wkh. Yes, the situation with the shopping spree seems to implicate her, and yes, that is extremely suspicious. All the evidence seems to point to the girlfriend, but it may not be her. Also depending on where she got the new clothes, $70 would not cover it! If she got it from Wal-Mart, then it would cover it, but most other places, no! The girl may be telling the truth. It may have been "necessities" for a job interview or something from her mother.

If you truly believe it is the girlfriend, then lock up your valuables in a safe when she comes to visit and keep the key on you. It's good to have valuables in a safe anyways in case of fire or something. The annies are right you should buy her an inexpensive gift. This is in the spirit of the holidays anyways. Not getting her something will only make yourself look bad and distance yourselves from your nephew.

I use to jump to conclusions when it came to incriminating evidence, but then I got blamed for a theft I never committed by my mother. Her wedding band came up misisng, and she swore up and down either my sister or I took it since we were washing the dishes and the ring was left by the sink. My sister was cursing me up and down to give the ring back. This ring stayed missing for a week and mother would not talk to us... until she found it misplaced in the house right where she left it.

LW1:
I actually find it interesting how quick the brother in law was to blame the kids girlfriend (meaning either she stole from him also, or something else is going on).
I'd be a little careful about throwing accusations with no proof, I had a close friend of mine get fired from a job for stealing. He worked as a bartender, and money in the register used to come up missing (1st warning sign, he replaced someone who had been fired for the same thing). He was the only bartender not related to the owner.
After he was fired, apparently the problem of money missing kept going on.......through both his replacement, and then the person who replaced his replacement. Eventually the owner found out it was both her husband and son taking money out of the register. She did try to give my friend his job back, but he had already moved on (he also forgave her, no grudges). The point being, you really should have proof before accusing someone of stealing, and you better be darn sure. Its always easy to point to the blame at the person who isn't kin, but you should also wonder just a wee bit if maybe the brother in laws wife isn't swiping it, or worse, hates this kids girlfriend, and is swiping it to cause problems.....

Call the girlfriend's parents and ask if her mother had indeed given her daughter her paycheck to go shopping. That would've been a better discussion to have when this occurred, but it doesn't hurt to ask now. Either Mom will say yes or no. And let's keep in mind that this is $170, not $70, since the LW also discovered $100 missing from another location. While some of the other PPs have good points about how somebody might be covering for an adult thief by blaming the teenage girl, the fact is that money went missing and she came home the same day with a bunch of new stuff. Most thieves don't steal cash with the intention of handing it over to OTHER people to go shopping--and if they had, the girlfriend would probably have said, "Oh, [Nephew's mother] gave it to me," because she wouldn't have known the money was stolen. (And who goes shopping when your boyfriend is in the hospital anyway?)

Frankly, I'd not invite the girlfriend and if anybody asks, shrug and tell the truth. "When the three of you were here this summer, we had $170 go missing. Did either of you take it? No? I didn't think so, since coincidentally enough, Nancy came home the same day with a whole new outfit. Sorry, but she's officially overstayed her welcome." And don't buy her a gift either. And if nephew complains, tell him the same thing. He's probably 17 or 18 himself and certainly old enough to be told he's dating a klepto who ripped off his family members.

If LW feels obligated to have the girl over, then pull her aside and say, quietly, "The last time you stayed with us, I found $170 missing from our petty cash in the house. I hope I'm not going to find anything missing this time or any other time in the future, because the next time I won't just call [nephew]'s father. I'll call the police. Have a nice Christmas." The girlfriend is old enough to graduate HS and go to college--she is WAY past the age where larceny should be excused as a childish mistake. Don't let her get away with it. Frankly, you'll be doing her a favor, because the older she gets without any consequences with her behavior, the higher the penalties will be when she does get caught (especially once she hits 18). And better a stern conversation and an awkward evening with you, than a night in jail, 3 months probation, and explaining to every potential employer for the next 15 years why she was arrested for shoplifting, or stealing from the cash drawer at work.

LW1-First off, why would you give your nephew's girlfriend a present? My folks never bother to do that. We give stuff to parents, siblings, children, sons/daughters in law, and that's it. If I had to give presents to my nieces and nephews, AND cousins, AND my nephew's girlfriend, I'd be broke.

You're hosting the dinner, isn't that enough? You're paying for the meal, aren't you? Isn't that going to set you back quite a bit of money?

And how did this girl locate the cash? I rarely keep cash around the house, and I don't leave valuables where people can see them.

You should talk to this girl's mother, because one thing is fishy. If she was staying at your home so she could be near her boyfriend, why would she go on a shopping trip during that time? It shows a lack of concern for the boy. If you mention that to her mother, and she says "are you crazy, I never give my daughter any money," then you know something is very wrong.

The way she behaved while she was at your home is another tipoff.

If you really want to find the truth, put the cash somewhere, and have a hidden camera nearby. If she's caught on camera, there you go. Don't make a big deal of it, just don't allow her in your home ever again.

Re: LW1 – “Due to the delicate nature of his son's illness, he asked that nothing be said about the theft. He even offered to pay us back, which we refused. The whole incident was then swept under the rug and not mentioned again.” I hope your nephew is now well, obviously when this incident transpired he was not, and the father attempted to make restitution for the girl. His priorities were to not upset his son, but you refused the compensation (taking the high road).

Now that Christmas is upon us you have chosen to neither forgive nor forget, which is illustrated by refusing the family (including the girlfriend) over for Christmas dinner. Of course, the nephew will have questions, and probably will never believe that his girlfriend was capable of such a crime. You must care for your nephew deeply, or else you wouldn't have put yourself out when he was hospitalized. Do you want to ruin the relationship over suspicions that you haven't be able to prove?

I say, for the sake of family peace, you should allow the girl over to your home for the dinner (hide any valuables that you might stress over for the evening); and on top of that at the gift opening, give the girl a book or something equally inexpensive to please your nephew. You don't know how long the girlfriend is going to be part of the picture, but you do know that your nephew will always be part of the family. Generating ill will is not worth it.

LW 1 - I have to agree with other posters as for pointing the finger at GF. Unless you have absolute proof, you just can't take a swipe at her. As other posters stated, keep your valuables/money in a safe place. It doesn't matter whether the GF is there or other people. If this should happen again, GF isn't there, then who are you going to accuse? It's your call, but I'd let this go and chalk it up as a bad experience. PROOF is the word in this situation. And, if you should go to BIL's house for the Christmas gift exchange, take an inexpenisve gift for the GF and to be on the safe side, don't your purse out of your sight.


LW 2 - I'll just agree with the Annies' on this one. I'd LOVE to add more but then, that would be TMI. I'll just say, hope I still have the great DESIRE when I reach my 80's.

I agree with a lot of the other posters that LW1 should not be so quick to accuse the girlfriend even though the circumstancial evidence DOES point to her. There could be other explanations. Also, originally the LW decided to put it behind him/her and not make an issue of it. It's too late to change now.

My main question though, is why does the LW keep what I would consider fairly large amounts of cash lying around in various locations throughout the home? If leaving money around is a normal thing to do in that household, then possibly someone else used the money and simply forgot about it. The obvious solution is to stop leaving money lying around where anyone visiting the home for any reason can pick it up (such as the $70 in the "kitchen container").

LW1: I don't think I've ever been as hurt in my whole life as I was when someone who didn't know me AT ALL accused me of stealing a watch. I would never accuse anybody of stealing, I would much rather assume that I had LOST the item/cash!

LW, I certainly hope you are reading the comments BTL because honestly, I think you should be ashamed of yourself. First you accuse a girl you barely know of stealing without any proof, then you talk about her like she's some horrible person for buying a new outfit (talk about judgemental! She bought an OUTFIT! Not the Hope Diamond!) and then, to add insult to injury, you decide to exclude her from holiday festivities. WOW! All of this over 170 bucks? Whatever happened to giving someone the benefit of the doubt?

You should also be ashamed of yourself for looping the rest of the family, all of whom will now, because of you, have a jaundiced view of this girl, and all with no proof. My suggestion to you: invite her into your home for the holiday,be nice, let this go. And start using a bank for your money!

LW2: Oh dear. The Libido Debate rages on. If you were my friend, and we were out having cocktails, I would ask you, has your husband always had a higher sex drive than you or is this a relatively new developement? You sound like a woman who has "shut down shop" and was glad to close that door. If you don't want sex, then fine. Be glad your man is into porno and not into cheating. The Annies advice to see a doctor is good. I don't know why anybody would want to stop having sex though.

LW3: I hate to break this to you, but grandmothers have been babysitting grandchildren so the parents can go to work since time began. In many cultures, there are no organized day care systems and extended family provide all the childcare that the mother and father can't. Truly loving grandparents don't look at time with their grandchildren as WORK. And truly loving children don't assume that grandparents don't have lives. Respect goes both ways, LW.

lW1: Nannycam. Those are pretty easy to set up, and inexpensive. Set up a bait money jar with some $5's in it, that you've photocopied, so she can't say 'oh, those were mine'. Or the money jar can be empty except for a note that says "Hi Tiffany--no money, we were expecting you!" And I don't think you're judgmental at all: if a cake disappeared while we had company, I'd assume that one of the guests ate the cake. You made a reasonable assumption, you didn't call her a thief without proof even though the money disappeared within hours of her being in the house; you'd have to be a dope not to have figured this one out. If you let her in again, get proof, or else everyone keeps their wallet on them at all times.

I agree that you should talk to her mom: I'll bet that she told her mom that YOU bought her all that stuff.

And I don't think you should be lectured for having cash in the house. We all have little piles of cash in our house, and no one touches each other's money.

LW1 - I agree with everyone here. Unless you have concrete proof that she stole it, you can't say that she did. I know that all signs point to her (I assume you've had your BIL and his wife over before and never discovered any missing money) but, for now, it's "circumstantial evidence." However, that doesn't mean you have to have her back in your home. I would simply not invite them over if you know she's going to be with them. And if they ask to stay with you again, I hope you say, "I'm sorry but that won't work for us."

As for Christmas, I would do what the Annie's said and get her something inexpensive.

Next time you have anybody over your house, don't leave money or valuables just lying around.

LW2 - Men lose their desire to have sex 6 months after they die (cheeky grin)! In all seriousness, there are several men who have the desire for the rest of their lives. Are you flat out just not interested or are you turned off by what he's saying to you? Either say, see if you can talk to your doctor about your lack of desire and see if you two can come to a compromise.

LW1--I think the Annie's have been drinking too much eggnog. Why do they insist on putting on a phony facade and molly coddling a thief for the sake of appearances? Forget their terrible advice! The money didn't walk away by itself. Sure, there's no actual proof that the nephew's girlfriend stole the money, however, there is plenty of smoke in the form of a new dress, purse and shoes. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. First, stand your ground. It's obvious this girl who flagrantly flaunted her theft of your money right in your face has been molly coddled enough. Inform your nephew point blank that he and he alone is invited to Christmas. If he has an ounce of common sense, he'll know exactly why. When it comes to the gift exchange, simply skip the girl without a second thought. Both she, your nephew, his parents and you will all know why and unless the girl is a total dolt she won't have the audacity to question why she was overlooked. She'll know why. If for some reason she is so emboldened to confront you on it, you can simply rebuff her by explaining that when it came time to buy her gift, you found that your gift fund had vanished. Must be the economy.

LW2--"My husband is 82, and I am 80, and the only thing on his mind is having sex two to three times a week." Ick! Unless you're Catherine Zeta Jones, no one wants to boink an old man! There are many forms of intimacy that don't involve actual intercourse. It's time to educate your old dog in the art of some new tricks since intimacy is key to a healthy relationship. Rebuffing his advances will likely lead him astray and he'll be humping the legs of every female in a ten mile radius.

Lise: Did you see my post, # 28, to you, yesterday? It's at the bottom. Viel Gluck !!

@nanchan - I agree with what you said about LW3. I could not have said it better. I would also like to add that in my opinion, in functional families, having a grandparent watch your child is much more desirable than a stranger. (I'm not talking about families that deal with abuse issues, in which someone out of the family is better - that is a completely different story).

Wow, Chris, do you think you could be any more ageist or sexist? Lol. I have news for you. Lots of people of both genders continue to enjoy "boinking" well into their senior years, and there is nothing gross about it. Of course, to a shallow person like you who thinks that only young, beautiful people should have intercourse, I guess your years of having sex yourself are numbered. Tell me, at what age exactly do you plan to give up having sex, and consider yourself to be an "old dog" who will need to learn new tricks to avoid trying to rut and annoy all those are are more entitled to sex?

You keep your cash in the kitchen? who in thier right mind does that? I keep my money in my wallet or the bank. Even if I kept cash at home, it would be hidden/ locked up in my bedroom. Only fools keep cash in a common area of the house, Especially when having guest over that you dont know that well.

Why did you have that much cash in a common area of the house with guest over? If you noticed $70 missing the first night, why did you leave the money out? did you want to get $100 more stolen? Now you want to punish someone that you think did it. if you are so suspicious and the money means that much to you, why allow that situation to happen? Your story doesnt make sense.

LW1 - Continue as you plan to for Christmas dinner and your brother's family won't be there and as far as the gift goes get them a "couples gift". Something presented to both of them for both of them. That way she's included in a nice way but it's not a not an exclusive gift. Tickets to an event, or look for like underwear or something......


LW2 - Your husband doesn't know how to masturbate? That's what porn is for. If you're not interested then you're not so he's going to have to find another way to deal with it.


LW3 - You go Grandma! I agree.

LW1 - When I was younger (9-10ish) I was accused of stealing $50 in change after spending a night at my godfather's house. He had a roommate who was out of town whose room I slept in, and he did indeed have piles of change on his desk. But I didn't take any. But I was the only other person there. My godfather accused me up and town a week or so later until I had to say "you're asking me too much if I took the money, I think you should tell me one more time, and if I say no, believe me." Last year I got in touch with him again and told him emphatically that I didn't steal that money. I don't know what happened. Likely the roommate miscounted what he had to what he spent.

The point to all this is that false accusations are hurtful. Unless she was the only person in the house when the money went missing, it may not have been her. Buying an outfit doesn't mean anything. I bought outfits when I was 17, doesn't mean I stole any money to do so. Now, that doesn't mean you open up your home and all your possession to her. You can try to get proof by setting up a nanny cam, or you can lock up your valuables when she comes over. Send her a Christmas card, don't get her a gift or get her something small. She's your nephews practically-adult girlfriend and does not need a gift from you.

Shame on everyone who is lecturing LW1 for keeping cash in the house! Blaming the victim much? Keeping a couple hundred dollars cash in the house isn't weird, it's WISE. In the event of an emergency, extended power outage, or budding zombie apocalypse, having some spare cash around is vital.

LW2 - You guys have a bigger problem than who wants sex and how much of it. You resent him and he resents you, and each of you blames the other. No one is in the right here and no one is truly in the wrong. DO go see your doctor about your own libido. There may be something you can do to enjoy sex again. Maybe not 3x/week, but enough to share some intimacy with your husband. If not, let him have his porn and don't berate him about it. Let him get his jollies. He's 82 after all, not 12 (although I think porn is suitable for just about anyone). Try watching it with him, who knows. And lastly, there are a lot of books out there nowadays geared toward intimacy and sex in senior couples. Pick up a couple and read them together. You may both learn something.

Re: Nanchan, I know it wasn't your intention but I think that your "I don't know why anyone would want to stop having sex" could be hurtful, implying that something must be wrong with her. Everyone's different and hormones do crazy things, and since there is no biological reason for an 80 year old woman to have sex, it's not surprising that her libido is shot.

LW3 - Since forever, and more so now that many households have two working parents, and that grandparents are living healthier, longer lives. They should not be taken advantage of, and nothing should be assumed, but it is NOT unusual for grandparents to take over some childrearing to permit the parents to work to support the household. Sometimes it's not about making life "more enjoyable" for your kids, it's about making an enjoyable life possible for them and their family.

LW1: I have nothing that hasn't already been said.
LW2: Boy, the Annies fell off the boat on this one. It is NOT natural for women to lose desire after menopause. Many do, but it's something that can be treated. Granted, I'm not 80 yet but I'm well past menopause and am happily sexual with a wonderful man--and no, I don't take hormones. My mother lived to be 84 and remained sexually active till the end. My father's and his girlfriend remained contentedly active until ill health rendered it impossible for them. He was 90 and she was 86 at the time. Age is not a barrier unless you want it to be.
It's been proven that a healthy sex life prolongs and improves most of the rest of your life. It keeps joints moving, promotes better sleep and a happier outlook. Regular orgasms stimulate more areas of the brain than just the pleasure centers. They've even been linked to keeping memory centers working better.
However, if you no longer want to be sexual, if you equate the idea that sex is somehow inappropriate for the eldery--or if sex has become painful--that's another matter entirely. In that case, you and your husband need to not only visit your doctor together but also a counselor to better improve your communication skills and work out compromises you both can live with.
And by the way, this is for "Chris"--my "old man" is WELL worth boinking!

Re: DannyJane (post 20)

AMEN! Love it! I think people like the LW just has no desire for sex, and probably never has. Women look at menopause in many ways: some women look at it as an opportunity, some look at it as the end of their attractiveness (there is a great episode of Golden Girls where Blanche goes through menopause), some women look at it with relief (no need to do that nasty sex thing anymore! yay!), some look at it as a part of life.

For me, I can honestly say that menopause for ME has meant many things but It has not and never WILL mean the end of my sex life. Even if my libido were NIL, I would not ACCEPT that, I would want to change it. My boyfriend and I (he's close to 60) joke that we'll get kicked out the old folk's home for waking up the nurses. it IS important to me to want to _ _ _ _ for the rest of my life, because it feels good, it is good for me, and it's a ton of fun to connect with the man I love.

BUT, there are women out there (some men, not as many as women) who just don't like sex. That's why I asked in my post if this is a new development. If she's generally liked sex as a rule, and now she doesn't want it, then she needs to determine if her lack of feeling for sex is greater than her desire to be there for her husband. If HE has had a recent spike in sexual desire, than that is a concern that should be taken to a doctor. We've seen it here a million times, men with health issues (even onset of Alzheimer's) suddenly start acting out sexually. But if he's always been like this, the LW has some decisions to make. Personally, if the marriage is good in other ways, as she says it is, unless there is a health reason for the LW not to put out (sorry, can't think of another word for it!), then I think she should be the one to have herself checked out and to make an effort to at least meet the poor man halfway.

Zoe, note the sentence I wrote AGAIN "I don't know why anybody would want to stop having sex though." I really don't know why anybody would WANT to stop having sex. I've always had a strong drive to connect, as it were, so I don't get the LW WANTING to let this very joyous part of life go. And it is my opinion. I don't think anybody would be hurt by that, do you really?

Re: Nanchan,

I think so, yes. The way you said it didn't come off as "personally I wouldn't want to stop having sex" it was more like "I don't get how anyone could want" - sort of the same way I might say "I don't know why anyone would want to get a stereotypical barbed wire tattoo" or something, like saying that your POV is so normal and the other so abnormal that you can't even fathom or understand why anyone could possibly "want" that (and I don't think that LW actually WANTS to not have sex with her husband; I suspect on some level she feels very bad about that and that's why she's blaming him, saying he's oversexed).

From your previous posts, nanchan, I think you have a head on your shoulders and I'm sure you have the wherewithal to understand someone else's situation even if it differs from yours. I'm sure you DO get how an 82 year-old-woman could come to not desire sex, and that's why I think it is wrong to act like she is a freak of nature because of it. She's not. Doesn't mean she can't get help and it doesn't mean she's "right", but making her feel abnormal isn't going to help.

To LW2, it least your hubby wants to be with you two or three times a week instead of with someone else.

LW1-
No proof? This didn't happen at a party where there were 20 people. There were only the parents there, whom I assume have been at the house before without incident, and the girfriend, who hadn't. And the minute the girl is at the house, BAM, incident! "After much discussion", who else could it be? She was talking to the BIL, certainly he didn't suspect his own wife who, I assume, had never done anything like that before. And then there was the timely shopping trip with the lame explanation. Looks like pretty good circumstancial evidence to me!

The fact that the BIL immediately offered to pay the money back as well as asked that the incident not be publicised further indicates to me that this is not the first time he's had such a complaint. I would guess that the nephew knows, but... if he doen't, he should know what's he's getting into and what kind of light-fingered, morally bankrupt floozy he's involved with.

Yes, get a token gift with a nice card, but as far as having that girl in my home again... NO way, Jose, forget it, no can do. Who wants to host someone she'll have to watch like a hawk, wondering what she'll steal this time?

Talk to your brother in law. Ask him if his son knows. Then tell him he had better inform him why she's not welcome, or that you will. There was no fallout. She thinks she got away with it, and that people are too stupid to put two and two together. She will DO IT AGAIN. And, when the shit hits the fan, the next victim will be very mad at YOU for not beging forwarned. Not to mention that it's just a matter of time before Nephew and his Klepto-Girl are barred everywhere except perhaps his own father.

Normal people don't do things like that. I would be curious to see what else he'll find out about her down the road... I hate to think of what the divorce will be like.

@wkh & Mookster
You've got me thinking now... But if the DIL did it to frame the girlfriend, why offer to pay the money back and especially, why insist on silence? Then it can only possibly be the wife, so wkh has a point. But this brings us back to my first sentence... Was the wife there before with no incident?

I'm with Roger and angoradeb on this one. Given what examples of false accusations have been supplied BTL, I suggest the LW set up a trap and see what happens. I'm all for trying the nannycam, inserted between paragraphs 3 and 4.

@Maria
Since there was another 100$ later found to be missing from another part of the house, it's actually 170$. You can definitely buy a dress, shoes and a purse for that. Even for 70$ you could, if the things are on sale.

And, for those who are quick to slam down the LW for money "lying around"... There is no indication that it was. Money in a container in the kitchen is not "lying around" and there is no indication the container was transparent. Looks like whoever did this went on the hunt and rummaged.

And at any rate, it would be no excuse. Invite me to your home, and it won't matter if whatever money you have in the house is hidden or lying around, I'll not touch a cent. And I'm not a saint, this is what decent people with decent values do.

LW2-
Perhaps it comes "naturally" with the ageing process, but so do failing vision and diminished hearing, and that doesn't mean nothing can be done. Unfortunately, for a lot of people (both men and women), from the moment they've lost the urge, they don't miss it at all and see no point in getting it back. Too bad, because sex can be enjoyed to one's dying breath and it's very good for the health - both mental and physical.

But, to tell you quite frankly, hubby does seem quite obsessed. Sex three times a week, porn, sex magazines, sex, sex, sex, sex... Sex three times a week is quite normal for a younger man, but a lot for a man his age, ESPECIALLY if it's the be it and all of his entire existence and he thinks of nothing else. In which case, I don't blame her for feeling hunted down.

I had a husband like that. I like sex as much as the next girl, but having to lock the door to the bathroom because hubby would get all worked up at the idea of me pulling my pants down to take a shit... To have a man follow you around like a puppy dog with his tongue panting out of his mouth all the way down to the floor almost 24/7 is NOT sexually arousing, it makes you feel like a hole in the wall. There is such a thing as too much is not enough, and it's a complete turn-off.

Is he oversexed or is she "abnormal"? I would say both. Seems to me that, while she could use a tune-up, HE could use a dial-DOWN.

@Zoe & DannyJane
Very good posts!

@Gwen
Just did, Danke schon for the good wishes, I'm happy you had a nice birthday. And I really get what you said about not feeling any different... I've told younger kids many times, I don't understand those who seem to think I'm not from the same planet because I'm so "old"... I feel the exact same person as I used to be 20, 30 or 40 years ago. I just know more things, that's all.

P.S.: I know "schon" needs a umlaut, but accents translate as a ton of gibberish in this box.

@Joyce/mn I hope you had a nice birthday too!

Re: LW1: Listen, this could be a case where LW's *spouse* secretly took the money to cover a gambling debt or to buy drugs and saw the nephew's girlfriend's visit as a perfect cover-up. Heck, the $100 could have been stolen *after* the girlfriend bragged about her purchases by someone else seeing an opportunity to scapegoat her.

Without any real evidence, it's just asking for trouble to make any kind of big deal about this. The girlfriend will deny it, the nephew will take the girlfriend's side, there'll be anger and recriminations that may spill over into other family members and it could last for months or more -- all for something that you may not even be right about because there will never be any proof.

LW1 said they would let it go but they haven't. Maybe they should abide by their original agreement, or take the in-laws offer to repay, if they find they are still dwelling on this months later.

Otherwise, take this as a lesson learned: don't leave cash lying around your house, it's not safe.

Let's remember that the girlfriend and the nephew's parents were at the LW's house for a couple of days and nights. Assuming people took shifts to stay with the nephew in the hospital, even leaving the gf alone for a couple hours would give her time to snoop through the house. I too have a few hundred bucks in cash in the house (because it *is* recommended by most financial gurus) and it's NOT in plain sight--and I doubt the LW had her cash in plain sight either. But that doesn't matter when someone's going through all your drawers and cabinets to find the cash in the sugar bowl or in a sock in your nightstand.

As one final (yes, snarky) suggestion to the LW, I have a great idea for a Christmas present for LW to give to her husband: a small personal-sized safe.

I can understand why the 80 yr old wants the husband to cool off; don't you think people that age are just getting tired? Also, if they had had a good marriage and all for all these years, then I doubt she would feel as she does. Some wives are put upon by their husbands so much that they feel like a workhorse instead of a wife.

I would bet money that he's not been a real partner to her, just looking at her for what she can do for him. And yes, that does kill your sexual feelings, just ask some of us here.

actually BIL offering to pay for it struck me as him being guilty. I doubt a young woman brazen enough to steal from virtual strangers would come home with her booty. As for what she was doing shopping, this might not have been a wring your hands and pray kind of thing.

nanchan, I'm a big fan of sex too but there was a time in my life I was asexual and thought I was maybe a lesbian, and would have happily died rather than have sex one more time. I thought I hated sex, but no, I just hated it with my former husband. If this woman is married to a man who sucks in bed (frankly, IME, most do, and I don't mean that as a slam on men I just don't think most are very skilled and I don't think women do a lot to help that either) or is pressuring her often and pouting like a spoiled brat when she says no, I can totally see why she'd want to stop.

I find it amazing how often men say "my wife hates sex" and women think/say "I hate sex" and yet it never occurs to them maybe she just hates it with HIM. I'd hate sex too if I had a lover who wasn't considerate and didn't take time to give me orgasms. In fact I did hate it. I even got the lesian soccer mom haircut. Oh it was a sad, sad time, and I was only in my mid 20s!!! :-O

Whereas many people have their stories of false accusations of thievery, we had the opposite. We let the girl down the street live with us as she was having problems with her family (and she was a friend.) My mom was raising 3 children on her own and struggling to pay rent each month. Friend found my mom's rent stash, stole it, bought a pony that was too small for her to ride, then moved it to our property to be housed and fed.
We all *knew* it was friend. But she let suspicion be cast on me and my siblings. There was never any proof, but friend eventually chose to repay my mom though denied she ever took it.
To make things worse, she then broke into her parent's home, stole her mother's ring, stole my mom's truck, and hawked the ring at the mall. Her own parents were fed up with her and had her arrested.
So, while it's best to have proof, sometimes you do just know.

LW1: She did it and the boyfriend needs to be told. The girl has serious issues. I bet her mother never took care of that girl at all, hence the claim her mother gave up her entire paycheck so the girl could buy clothes. It's sad but it's nobody's problem but hers and she has no right to take it out on others. The fact that she is so willing to do so means she has serious character issues. If you love your nephew don't let him get deeper involved with this whackjob. Speak up.

LW2: Wow, you're both in your 80s and you still haven't learned to communicate properly. So sad. What a waste of 80 years.

Re: kristen

Oh, the girl probably did do it, but without proof? She could just as easily NOT have done it. Since LW1 can't get over it, she needs to get real proof. If she doesn't want to do that, she should get over it (for her own sanity) and protect her belongings while not cutting the gf and therefore her nephew out completely. No one wins there.

Re: Diana

I don't think they got married when they were babies... ;)

Re: Heath Garrett
Really, Heath? Your money is safe because you keep it in your wallet? Sorry, but that's kind of funny because you are far more likely to have your wallet stolen (remember, it is going many more places than that canister at home) than you are the cash you stash at home. And generally, you actually know the people in your home and therefore can, hopefully trust them better than you can those hundreds of strangers you encounter everyday, some of whom hold a job called pick-pocketing.
Kitchen, bedroom, bathroom...I don't think it is at all uncommon to have a stash of cash at home. In fact, it is even prudent to have it. It is suggested by Dave Ramsey, financial guru, that you have a minimum of $1000 that is easily and immediately accessible in the event of an emergency.
Some, like me, choose to keep a stash in the home - not a $1000, but it could send a young girl on a nice shopping trip. And I'm not stupid or naive in any way.

Re: wkh

I think BIL offering to pay LW1 the money was a bribe to keep her quiet around the sick/injured nephew. That said I had the same thought that you did when I first read that.

LW!: I agree with those that think it's too quick to blame the GF. Yes, the situation is suspicious, but who is really stupid enough to steal that much cash then go shopping with it right away and then flaunt the purchases? In my eyes, the nephew's family are just as suspicious. They must've been under a lot of stress if their son was in hospital with a serious illness or injury, and possibly facing quite steep medical bills at the other end. LW1 at least sounds to be in decent financial shape if they can afford to 1. leave $170 (at least) lying around the house; 2. not need it to be repaid; and 3. afford to gift girlfriends/boyfriends of family members as a matter of course. Like someone else upthread said, I also take the BIL's offer to repay the money as an 'oops I've been caught' gesture, especially coupled with the 'don't mention it to my son' conversation.

This should've all been dealt with and cleared up when the problem first occurred, and not swept under the rug for however many months.

Re: Zoe

You make a good point, Zoe. Girl probably did do it. And to respond to the post that didn't believe the girl would be so brazen as to flaunt her newly purchased items if she'd stolen the money - oh, yes, she just might be that brazen. Case in point the girl living with us. You don't get more brazen than that. I neglected to add that the ring was stolen to pay back my mom, by the way. Nice, eh?

Back to you Zoe - LW needs to get over it, but first she should actually speak up. People stay silent about the stupidest things. Silence is a form of consent, so if she isn't willing to at least ask the girl then she needs to accept the theft and assume the girl is innocent and treat her as such. It's absolute crap to treat a person poorly, or even differently, if you aren't willing to address your issues. Still think the girl did it :)

LW 1 - By the time I finished reading all the posts today for LW 1, I just couldn't help but to come up with this idea. So, LW and hubby are going to BIL's house for Christmas to exchange gifts. Well, I think she should give BIL and wife the game of "Whodunnit" and a joint gift for nephew and GF, "Clue". And, of course, there's always a backup game "CSI" when they get tired of playing with the other ones.

for those of you who think it's ok for a woman/wife to stop having sex with her husband after a certain time... I have one thing to ask you.....

What are your husbands supposed to do for sex? If you want to shut down the shop, don't expect your men not to go out to the mall.

You guys are missing sooooooooooo much. but then again,maybe you never have figured out what you were missing, or you settled for a marriage that didn't give you what you needed sexually for other reasons. Either way, you really have noone else to blame but yourselves for being unhappy and cold.

I'm glad I"m not YOU!

Re: nanchan

Whom are you even talking about? I haven't gone back over the comments but I don't remember anyone saying anything like that in response to LW2. Show me where anyone said anything like that.

If LW1 *wants* the nephew to marry this girlfriend, I can think of no faster way to cement that relationship more tightly than trying to drive a wedge between them by accusing her of theft without proof. The hormone-laden teenage boy is *not* going to take his aunt's side over his girlfriend's in this.

One of my favorite lines from “Law Abiding Citizen”: It's not what you KNOW, it's what you can PROVE.

I figured the BIL offered to pay the LW back the cash that GF stole, because he was the one who brought GF into LW's home and therefore felt responsible for the damage she did. Not because he was really the thief.

Personally, I'm glad I'm not Nanchan or anyone else driven by their hormones. I've never felt like I was missing out because sex didn't rule my life, just like I've never felt like I was missing out for not trying drugs or getting wasted every weekend in my 20s. Sex is just sex, it's not that big a deal and even the best orgasm in the world lasts about 5 seconds and then you actually have to have a life and personality outside of that. Who the hell are you, Nanchan, to judge anyone's character based on how often they want to have sex? There's a lot more to people than that. It's too bad people like you don't realize that. There are too many people who spend a ton of their time looking for sex, asking for sex, hooking up with ill-advised partners for sex, lying and cheating, spreading disease, walking away from children they conceived and didn't want to bother with, and throwing away relationships with perfectly decent people ALL because of sex. I think people who let sex rule their lives like that are pathetic and you couldn't pay me to be one of them.

I would agree with you, Jenna. She cannot prove the girl did it, only her suspicions.

LW doesn't have to welcome the girl to her home or get her even a token gift or even smile at her during the celebration. She does need, however, to consider whether she's willing to lose her relationship with her brother in law, his wife and the nephew over this, because if she is being invited to someone else's home, she's being expected to act civilly to the other guests. I think she's already on thin ice by refusing to host. And while a gift to girlfriends/boyfriends isn't necessary, it's a gracious gesture that she's established as precedent. Going against it now will not make the girlfriend look bad; it will make LW look bad in the eyes of her relatives and particularly her nephew. But that's entirely LW's call.

@limniade, you do realize that there's a happy medium between what you describe for yourself (which hardly seems like a particularly positive view of sex), and the rather grim picture you paint of people making babies they abandon while spreading disease?

And that happy medium is where most people live, frankly.

There's nothing wrong with having a strong, healthy desire for sex. It's not just the reason we're all here, after all, but that drive has inspired great operas, plays, paintings, movies... and it is an important part of a primary relationship. Part of marriage, especially if the spouses demand monogamy, is that they will be the only sexual partner for life. That's part of the joy and part of the responsibility of marriage.

If both partners mutually agree that sex is no longer important, that's one thing. But if the partners have a disparate point of view, it's not fair for the partner who doesn't want sex to be the one who "wins" the argument by default. Especially if there is a medical reason for the reduction in sex drive.

Re: Chris Ithink the problem with the 82 year old husband isn't he wants sex so often, as much as he should stop watching porn and reading sex magazines. That's what is making him want sex more.

Re: Alice

I think you're right. Years ago, before porn existed, men NEVER wanted to sex. They were grossed out by boobs (cooties, you know) and no one had raging hormones. It's amazing our species survived until now! And then some guy was like "let's make a gross-out movie of a couple kissing and touching - ewwww" and ever since men have been obsessed with sex. Porn is wrong and the Victorian era was so right to make nudity and sexuality a dirty, evil thing. Sex should be three minutes long with your socks on followed by a three hour apology to God.

Re: Alice
Then why does he want to watch porn flicks and flick through girlie mags in the first place? Because he's thinking of SEX in the first place!

Re: Zoe

Hee hee hee ho ho ho haw haw haw haw!

Self righteous and snarky bunch here today.

If you disagree with someone, the wrong way to win them over to your point of view is with heavy sarcasm and sentences that all start with an implied, "yeah, right, moron...".

Little by little this forum is being taken over by bullies as the larger populace exits after being shouted down for having a *gasp* contrary opinion.

LW1
You really should have confronted the young woman at the time, albeit politely, given there is only circumstantial evidence. It is churlish now to avoid inviting family to your Christmas celebrations as normal, and your idea of pointedly not giving any gift to her will make you look odd. Speak to her or truly forget this.
```

HA HA~!!!!!! What a gas!

I just told my boyfriend that some person called me "driven by my hormones" and he said "Thank goodness!"

Glad to know the old girld still has it in her!

Driven by hormomes... holy mackeral! what a COMPLIMENT!

Re: limniade

i dunno, limniade, I'm past menopausal, so I'm not "ruled by hormones", and yet I miss sex. I've been celibate for some months now, and what I miss most is actually the part that goes beyond sex, so no, sex is not "just sex" - at least not for me... Personally, if I was one of those people who let sex rule my life, I would have no problem taking this man up on his offer, who is 16 years younger than me and not bad looking... He's made it plain that he finds me attractive.

But precisely because I'm not ruled by hormones or by the crutch, I need more than (relative) youth and a pretty face. And I found that most women I know are pretty much the same. So you can like sex enough to miss it, and not necessarily be an animal in a rut. There is a happy middle between a woman who closes her eyes and thinks of England and the whore of Babylon.

There are still too many people subscribing to the sexist expectation that only men are allowed to like, want, need and demand sex, and that "good girls" don't. Is that the way you feel, limniade? For your sake, I hope not.

LW1-
What do you need to do? You need to find yourself a new boss and a new boyfriend and leave the two of them to each other. Birds of a feather f*** together. And you need to stop playing shadkhen at your office. As I hope you've learned from this little incident, office and private lives always don't match well.

P.S.: Please don't fall for the "I was drunk" excuse in the future. Swallowing that yurunda means putting up with all kinds of unacceptable behaviours, allegedly because he was "drunk".

P.P.S.: Get yourself tested. Who knows who else he boinked while he was "drunk"? A few months' iatus can mean quite a few binges.

@wkh
As woman, she should have known better than to jump in the sack with someone close to her the minute he was "available", particularly someone she spends 8 hours a day with. That was unwise and unprofessional to say the least. He was fair game indeed to a perfect stranger - but not to her.

And that is about the overnight stay - before that, she accepted his all-night texting, knowing he was still with her. Yes, she DID betray her as well, although not as much as the boyfriend - technically.

It's not like the two of them fell in love across a crowded room and "it just happened". She just wanted to get laid. She should have waited to make sure the breakup was final - and it wasn't. And even then, it would have been... highly unsavory. And she knows it, the proof of which, she couldn't look her in the eye when confronted.

LW2-
Yes, a lot of people these days are mannerless and entitled, but what are sterile supplies doing in a place that is highly accessible to UNWASHED hands, free to be contaminated by every bacteria and virus these sick people are coming to the doctor about? Put them away, for Christ's sake, and kwityerbeefin', the first fault was yours.

And the second as well: you'll supply waiting adults with 2 year old magazines, well guess what, the kids need something too. Get yourself to the local thrift shop and buy some used toys and books.

Scheisse. How did post #54 end up on THIS thfead? Sorry about that, gang.

Bad Aunt should not jump to conclusions. When I was dating my husband, money and items kept disappearing from his home. He later told me that his parents suspected me, since I was in college and had no money -- but I had never taken so much as a dime. Lo and behold, the sister-in-law who lived next door and had a key to the house would enter when no one was home and take things. Bad Aunt should take a closer look at her brother- and sister-in-law.