Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

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LW3 refers to the first letter on 5 February 2013

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LW3 refers to the first letter on 5 February 2013

LW1: You are legally responsible for your daughter for another 2 weeks. If anything changes in that time, help her out; otherwise, once she's 18, the Annies are spot on NO MATTER how hard it may be for you. Your daughter is on a path that will almost certainly land her in jail and you aren't in any position to change that. Change your locks, don't keep falling into enabling behavior, and get yourself some counseling so you can focus on the young son that you still have a chance of helping develop and mature in a better fashion.

Whether her problems are all medical, psychiatric, or whether you and your ex made mistakes when raising her, you may feel guilt for how this turned out -- and none of us can absolve you from that, whether it's a deserved feeling or not. But continuing to enable her behavior, allowing her to continue to act this way to you and your home, isn't going to help at all.

The best you can hope for is that after a few years of life on her own, she gets enough reality slaps to want to turn her life around -- and maybe then she will re-connect with you, and you can slowly, cautiously rebuild your relationship then.

LW2, if this is a regular pattern, I would learn a way to simply state "it's clear that some topics of conversation are difficult, and become heated and disrespectful. Let's avoid doing that on such a nice occasion, simply agree to disagree, and talk about something else."

And then if these people can't help but continue the conversation, smile sadly, stay quiet, and leave the room (or the event). You'll only need to do this once or twice before they get the hint.

The trick is learning NOT to engage, which is the most difficult part of it.

LW3, it's too bad you didn't read the comments that day because we were all a lot harder on the original LW than the Annies were! I think most of us generally agreed with the point you are making today, that the original LW was ungrateful, selfish, and behaving in an entirely-too-entitled fashion.

LW1 - I really can't add anything to what the Annies and Mike H have already said. Mike H is spot on with this one. After Kylie turns 18 the LW will no longer be legally responsible for her, and hard as it may be she will have to distance herself from her for the sake of her younger child.
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LW2 - My best friend and I have totally different opinions politically and do not discuss politics at all. However, neither of us ever got into actual shouting matches over that before we stopped talking about it. If at all possible, simply ignore their comments and move the conversation to other topics. If they insist on continuing, then simply say that those are topics you don't want to discuss and leave. People who are that confrontational aren't going to change their beliefs, so there's no point in staying and listening to their rants.

LW1 -
Kyle will be 18 in two weeks. Once she has reached legal age, you can't compel her to do anything - not that you ever could even before that. Kyle seems to be incorrigible, and one who went over the deep end the minute hormones took over. There is nothing you can do.

The Annies are right that: while Kyle doesn't want you, your son needs you. The right thing right now is to concentrate on protecting him. She wants you to leave her alone? So leave her alone. Send the text message. Change the locks. Install an alarm system, possibly a silent one so they can get caught without being alerted. Press charges whenever you have case. If the problem persists, consider selling your house or renting it out and moving out.

You say he has psychiatric issues? Well, it sure looks like she has some of her own and that they deserve each other. I know you love your daughter, and always will. But the woman has no remorse, no heart, and she's dangerous. Considering there are two of them reinforcing each other here, all the chances are that the delinquent behaviour will escalate at one point. I would frankly worry a lot more about whoever she and her accomplice will run into - including yourself and your son.

This is not going to get better and you not only have to protect your son, but yourself as well. Both physically and emotionally. For that reason, I also recommend therapy for yourself and your son, because it sounds like you need help coping, as mosty people would in your shoes. Good luck!

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Working a flea market today. I'll read the rest of the letters and the comments when I get back! Hope there are no typos.

LW2, something about your story just doesn't ring true. "Flying into a rage" takes a lot of energy, both physically and emotionally, and has unpleasant consequences for the "rager" afterwards. That you have MULTIPLE relatives that fly into RAGES over certain topics on a REGULAR basis says one of three things to me. Either your family is rife with a mental illness and they live in isolation without any friends or means of supporting themselves (surely these same topics come up in other situations, and no friend or work environment would put up with someone raging more than once or twice); you are greatly exaggerating the frequency and severity of these "rages"; or you, in fact, are the catalyst who is passively aggressively provoking these rages only when you are around.
>
If you walk in the door and your relatives come flying at you, frothing at the mouth and the veins popping out on their foreheads screaming, "THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS GOD!!!" well, I guess you have a point, and you may want to call social services to have the lead levels in their paint checked.
>
But if you're walking in the door and your relatives say, "We just got back from a protest against big oil companies," and you reply (instead of "that's interesting"), "Well, a bunch of lamebrained ecoterrorists is just what we need to stall the economy and keep people unemployed," well then, your comment that you are "hurt" that they then "attack your beliefs and opinions" is a bunch of hooey. You know exactly what you're doing, and you find the drama and your own martyrdom addictive.

LW1: Chris, I don't know what you're going to say about this since (as I'm typing this) your comments haven't appeared, but please be sensitive on this one. (Particularly given that LW3's topic often riles you up.)

To me, it appears that the LW has done all she can do, taking extraordinary steps to rehabilitate her daughter but without success. You can't change someone that doesn't want to be changed, and it appears to be the case here. My heart goes out to the LW. All I can say is that I pray for a miracle and that she come back and be the daughter you loved and cherished.

LW2: Not much more that I can add, except that you seem to be doing the right thing by avoiding the topics. I guess if these topics bother them so much, they may need to see a counselor who, as being disinterested and third-party, can help them through their anger.

And I'll pass on LW3.

Re: Jane (#8)

I know I have been accused of wildly diverting on possible scenarios, but while it sure is possible that their anger might be rooted in listening to too much radio and/or television commentators and railing against the government ... I didn't have a topic exactly conceived at first ... and only thought of family and personal/work issues.

For instance, the work issues -- It could be as simple as the angered person working at a nursing home and is irritated by the Alzheimer's-afflicted resident cries out "Oh shit!" repeatedly. Or, if she works at an office, the co-worker with poor social graces and slobbering over his shirt having verbal tics that he doesn't seem to want to fix. And then, for some reason, they're just under a lot of stress and those workplace situations make it a lot worse.

Or it could be anything else setting them off. It isn't just issues in the news or the commentators, or (the other possibility you bring up) people continuing to insist that there is no God because they're annoyed that their town's religious life and culture is important to everyone else ... that can rile people up. Anything can set them off.

Which is probably why a counselor may be best and may cut off their desire to be driven by their anger.

LW1 - I am so sorry to hear about your story. You sound like you've done all you could for your daughter. I agree with Mike H wholeheartedly. Once Kylie turns 18, as hard as it's going to be, you need to stop focusing on her and focus on your son. Instead of changing the locks, though, I would move all together. I hope that Kylie gets the help that she needs.

LW2 - I refuse to discuss hot topic buttons with anyone. If I'm in a room with people and the topic of religion, politics, etc, comes up, I simply leave the room. I've heard people attack my religion and such so leaving the room usually ensures I won't hear it.

LW1 - I am so sorry to hear about your story. You sound like you've done all you could for your daughter. I agree with Mike H wholeheartedly. Once Kylie turns 18, as hard as it's going to be, you need to stop focusing on her and focus on your son. Instead of changing the locks, though, I would move all together. I hope that Kylie gets the help that she needs.

LW2 - I refuse to discuss hot topic buttons with anyone. If I'm in a room with people and the topic of religion, politics, etc, comes up, I simply leave the room. I've heard people attack my religion and such so leaving the room usually ensures I won't hear it.

LW1--"Kylie will be 18 in two weeks. She has no remorse for what she's done." I know you don't want to hear this, but in two weeks, your daughter will be an adult. It's time you let her act like one. Look hon, you've wasted a lot of tears, money and regret trying to get your daughter the help she needs to become a productive member of society. Guess what, you daughter thinks she knows better. She isn't interested in following rules, getting a job or finishing school. She isn't interested in help. Take the advice of your friends who say to let Kylie go. Your daughter will find out soon enough that the rest of the world doesn't give a damn about her little attitude. My guess is she'll soon wind up knocked up by her new boyfriend who will then pull a vanishing act. Just wait and your prodigal daughter will land right back on your doorstep with a grimy little grandbaby in tow who will be convenient leverage to emotionally blackmail you into taking her back in and putting up with her bullshit all over again. You'll be stuck babysitting while she's out running around for days at a time partying it up. Don't fall into that trap! Your daughter has made her choices in life now let her put on her big girl panties and deal with the consequences on her own.

LW2--The simple way to avoid these screaming matches with your distant relatives is to ensure they remain literally distant relatives. As in you never see them! Got it? Good.

LW3--That woman was a stupid moron who raised a couple of even stupider Hilton sisters. I personally would love to be a fly on the wall when her little princess daughters' marriages fail within two years.

Hi Bobaloo, I'm sorry, but I'm not able to follow your post to me. The LW didn't bring up any workplace issues or mention anyone having work-place related stress, and I didn't either...so I'm not sure what you're referring to or how it relates to my post. I did say that if a person was to "rage" on a regular basis about common topics of conversation, then they wouldn't likely be able to hold a job, since few employers would put up with that. Or friends.
My point being that I suspect these relatives are not like this "all the time" whenever these topics come up in any situation, as the LW implies, because they would not be able to function well in society if they were. Instead, I suspect that these "multiple" people having "rages" are more likely being triggered mainly in situations where the LW is around, and that he or she is not simply an abused, innocent bystander, but is taking an active role in provoking the anger. I've seen too many people who, when someone says something like, "The choir was beautiful at church this morning" replies with something like, "I can't believe so many sheeple are still so gullible and stupid as to believe in God. What a waste. Religion should be banned" Then they get all "hurt" because, after all, they were only expressing their beliefs and opinions...
And yeah, yeah, I do know there are some hotheads in the world who really do go off the deep end. But the red flag for me in this letter is the LW is talking not sure about one odd relative, but a number of them; not just about anger, but "rages", and not just once in a while, but "every time" certain topics are discussed; and that he/she is "hurt" that his/her opinions and BELIEFS are being "attacked." I would be interested to know exactly how the LW "presents" his or her beliefs. I have several beliefs on religion, politics, same-sex and multiple marriage, the afterlife, extraterrestrials, the color orange, etc etc that none of my closest family members even KNOW about. So if the LW is finding themselves in a situation where MULTIPLE people are flying into RAGES and attacking them EVERY TIME these topics come up...you have to ask yourself if you're not doing your own part to stir the pot and create these volatile situations.

Re: Mike H

Comment #3. Mike, I really think you need to consider that Annie's Mailbox is a syndicated column in both print and internet media. The folks that respond into the print media version of these columns never even see the BTL at this site. Creators.com is not the only website that carries this column. So there is a good chance that LW3 didn't even see the comments you are talking about.

Chris - Love you comments as always. Especially the one about the Hilton sisters. I actually think you were too generous thinking it would be two years for the divorces. I would bet more like 6 months. It is amazing the way folks raise their children like this - expect Mommy and Daddy to pay for everything. Then they write in here cause they can't live on their own, hold down a job, or show any responsibility. I

LW1 - I am very concerned that your 10 year old son is now unable to sleep alone. Is he now sleeping with you? If so, it may be a good idea for him to stay with his dad and other brother. This problem with your daughter is not likely to be resolved any time soon and your son deserves to feel safe and be able to sleep in his own bed.

LW1 - I am very concerned that your 10 year old son is now unable to sleep alone. Is he now sleeping with you? If so, it may be a good idea for him to stay with his dad and other brother. This problem with your daughter is not likely to be resolved any time soon and your son deserves to feel safe and be able to sleep in his own bed.

LW1

It's easy to take your account of the situation, paint it with a broad brush and assume that the situation is exactly like so many others we've unfortunately all seen unfold where the adult "children" are nothing but abusive wastrels and "tough love" on the parents part is truly the only hope to restore sanity to the situation.
I completely agree that you must let go - back off with the police unless robbery or assault takes place, change the locks or move, stop enabling your daughter in any way and get counseling for yourself and your son. I do not agree that you should necessarily cut off all communication via text or any other means. If and when your daughter reaches out to you in a non-abusive manner, you should consider allowing it and maintaining contact. It won't be easy but you can provide a sounding board and touchstone for her to potentially find her way back to a more orderly life. You should also reflect on whether you have been so focused on the person she "should" be that you have not made her feel validated for who she is.

Perhaps in your quest to help and improve her you have given her the impression that who she sees herself and feels herself to be to be is not good enough in your eyes. Clearly this girl is not remotely ready to go to college. Trying to force the issue a few months back sounds very counterproductive. She may be one of those individuals who is not even ready to complete high school at this point and needs an alternative - a GED or god forbid she may just need to be a drop out for now. Even if she continued treatment or counseling and held a part-time job that would be a huge improvement. My point is that maybe she has emotional and physical issues and is just not capable of doing what you think she should right now and if you accept her and love her as she is it may be more helpful to you both.

Re: Jane (#14)

I think what my point was is that indeed, we don't know what is setting off LW2's relatives.

Remember, though, the comments posted at your #8 were "If you walk in the door and your relatives come flying at you, frothing at the mouth and the veins popping out on their foreheads screaming, 'THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS GOD!!!'" ... and "We just got back from a protest against big oil companies."

I just suggested the possibility that the rage is driven by mundane everyday situations or matters at work – including co-workers from hell" and others that doesn't even concern the LW – and as such the frustrated relative just wants someone to help them vent. (FWIW, it could be that they're in a tizzy because of something as minor as the neighbor forgetting to put the lid on his garbage container.)

I will agree with the remark after the "protest against oil companies" comment that by engaging, it is (like it or not) only encouraging the drama that she is frustrated over.

As far as how often the relatives are like this, it's often enough that the LW has said, "enough" and written in. If it were just once or twice every once in a blue moon, even if they only rarely visit, I think the LW would have found a way to put up with it and excuse it, and then thank God that he/she doesn't have to see them more often once they leave.

Re: EstherGreenwood (#18)

"My point is that maybe she has emotional and physical issues and is just not capable of doing what you think she should right now and if you accept her and love her as she is it may be more helpful to you both."

Yeah, but the LW says she doesn't want help. Whether that's because "she's not ready" to deal with whatever issues she has or doesn't want to (i.e., she's perfectly content living the role of Bonnie Parker wild child) ... she doesn't want the help.

At least not right now.

Now after I had typed my original post, I did hear something on the radio – it was a playback of an "American Top 40" program from 1981 – which, as part of a Long Distance Dedication (anyone remember these?) related a similar situation as the LW's, only through the "wild child"'s eyes. The wild child – who had left home and probably did many of the same things Kylie in today's letter is doing – had grown tired of her party, drugs, etc. lifestyle and was changing, had gone back to school and was about to earn her GED, and was picking out a college. She had also found a good man. She also told how many people she had hurt and was thankful that her brother stood by her all this time.

The thing I got from this is, someday, Kylie may change and be ready to reform herself (just like with this woman who wrote to Casey Kasem 32 years ago with her Long Distance Dedication to her brother, and I hope things turned out well for that woman).

Someday.

Which is what I think you suggest, Esther. I hope that happens.

But for now, Kylie is a wild child and there's not much else the LW can do except pray that change comes about before the police knock on the door ... either to say she's in jail having committed a felony or that she needs to go to the morgue and identify her body. The way I read the letter, the LW was a mother who, despite her own limitations and stresses, made reasonable attempts to reach out to Kylie and made demands expected for most teen-agers, and it didn't work because of whatever reason, which is why I sympathize with her.

With that in mind, all I can say is ... Chris, Chris, Chris (#13, *tsk*, *tsk*, *tsk*)

"Just wait and your prodigal daughter will land right back on your doorstep with a grimy little grandbaby in tow who will be convenient leverage to emotionally blackmail you into taking her back in and putting up with her bullshit all over again."

So what you're saying is that Kylie will never change and that if she comes back a few years from now, an avowed born-again Christian and has shown ample evidence that she is indeed now walking the straight and narrow ... the mother should simply say, "F-OFF, BITCH!!!!!!!! I HAVE NO DAUGHTER!!!!!!!!!" and slam the door in her face, having a police officer lead her off if need be?

Wow – talking about calling the kettle black here. No wonder I think of your opinions sometimes the way I do.

There's a reason why the Prodigal Son story is in the Bible (Luke 15: 11-32, in case anyone thinks I'm cooking up a wild story). Granted, Jesus ends the story abruptly – we don't know what became of the Prodigal Son after he was accepted back, although I've always thought it was that the Prodigal Son's motives were pure and that he indeed was changed after his own "wild child" experiences and never wanted to go back to them once he had to deal with the consequences.

You sound just like the Prodigal Son's brother, who (like you seem to want to have happen to poor Kylie) thought that – referring to his reaction when the Son came back and the father saw fit to celebrate with a party – since he (Prodgal Son) buttered his own bed, he ought to lie in it, not be feted. One of the things the brother was basically told was to "lighten up" (in addition to all those things he was told about "everything that's mine is yours" and that a person's redemption should be celebrated) ... which is what I'd suggest here.

If Kylie comes back and there is solid evidence she has changed ... even if she has a baby in tow and needs her mother's assistance ... then I think the mother should accept her daughter's apology and welcome her back with open arms. Let her redeem herself, which is something I don't think you're willing to do, given your comments. (And yes, I have read them; it is EXACTLY what you say in not so many words.)

Sad to say, though, we don't know how this story is going to end. I just hope it ends well for Kylie and the LW.

LW – If you are reading this, please let us know how things turn out. Prayers to you and to Kylie and the rest of your family.

Re: Chris

What's a look hon?

LW1: I agree with Chris on everything, and will add that your Number One priority right now is to protect your ten year old son. He deserves a healthy environment where he will be safe and able to develop ito a productive citizen. Needless to say, your own safety and well being is paramount. If not for yourself, certainly for your son. HE NEEDS YOU!

LW2: I think it was Jane who had an interesting take here. I don't know if these relatives are really trying to change your opinions or you've gotten to the point that every disagreement feels like you're being raged at. Just tell them that these discussions are getting nowhere and tht to continue is a waste of their time and yours. Then just walk away.

Bobaloo, I don't think Chris was being that heard-hearted about Kylie. His concern, and mine, is that Mom will have her heart broken once again. We need to also factor in the welfare of the ten year old son. He was the reason that I agreed completely with Chris (#13).

Re: Bobaloo

You're right I am indeed saying that at age 17, almost 18 that there is still lots of hope for the future that the "wild child" daughter may yet indeed straighten up and fly right - I certainly hope so. It looks like we are in complete agreement on that and that neither one of us condones simply writing her off for life as some others seem to suggest. Good analogy with the Prodigal Son - very apt here.

I am not suggesting that LW1 offer any specific type of help since you're right in that the daughter has rejected help at this point. I am suggesting that she look closely at her own motivations and assumption regarding her relationship with and attitude toward her daughter and closely examine her expectations as to whether they are compassionate and realistic. I think she should also look at simply keeping the lines of communication open (without judgement or expectation) as a potential lifeline for her daughter and be open to offering her help in the future.

Re: JustWinBaby (#23)

You agree with Chris on everything? That's a scary thought.

Nobody is saying that the LW *shouldn't* be protective of the 10-year-old son, whom she must focus on now. I agree that much – of course she should. I know I didn't remark about the locks and such, but those are reasonable steps to take. I do think that a couple of suggestions made to move from the community (so it would be difficult for Kylie to track you down) is a bit extreme, however; there's no reason to be *this* afraid of her; I highly doubt, for instance, that Kylie is going to come in tomorrow toting an AK-47 and kill everyone.

Stealing is more likely, which is why the lock and/or alarm suggestions made – and, I might add, a cell phone to call 911 quickly – seems to make more sense.

That all said, I *do* think that the LW is intelligent enough to be able to tell whether – in the event Kylie one day decides to come home – she is genuine or just wants to break her mother's heart again.

Re: clemma (#21)

"What's a look hon?"

Uh, it's just his way of being friendly and getting a LW's attention. It's harmless.

@Paula, no worries, I'm under no illusions that the majority of LWs come down BTL (although it does occasionally happen).
Mainly it's that I often find it is a more coherent way of organizing my thoughts about each letter, and it often just feels more natural than trying to express the same thoughts more indirectly.

LW1: Please consider getting a burglar alarm for your home. They are not as pricey as you might imagine and the peace of mind is worth it.

LW1: I have friends with a "wild child" now in her early 30's. She has been in and out of rehab, in and out of jail, in and out of her parents' lives. She did come home pregnant about 10 years ago; her parents adopted the daughter(who at this point is a very nice child) and she (the wild child) disappeared. She is only welcome at home if she is clean, sober, and willing to abide by sensible house rules. She lasted at home for over a year recently but is currently back out and very close to another incarceration.
Definitely change locks, alarm system good idea. Moving is a bad idea; having new people in the house could be extremely dangerous for the tenants.

LW2: Having had a few argumentative inlaws, I learned to make a simple, calm statement and shut up. Often I would hear them quote that to someone else later. And of course, the classic answer to a provocative statement is "You may be right." The key is to not be drawn into any further discussion.

LW2 -
How do you get them to calm down? Once they're revved up, you just don't. Stop sharing your beliefs and your opinions. Keep their hot buttons strictly off-limits the repertory os possible conversation pieces and, if they insist on engaging and become offensive, get up and leave.

If this isn't enough, limit the time you spend with them. Whether or not you need to cut them off completely depends on how they respond to your refusal to engage. If they're on crusade mode 24/7 and are the kind who will have no rest until they've converted you to whatever opinions or beliefs they have, then yes, you may have to cut them off completely.

Re: Jane #8
Yeah, flying into a rage takes a lot of evergy, and many people have no problem at all spending it that way. If there are unpleasant afterwards effects, it certainly never deterred the ex LOML!

There are people who cannot touch certains subjects without turning into freaks, and who just can't agree to disagree because they can't abandon the battlefield until they've managed to bring you to the dark side. Since they cannot force you to change your mind, they go on loop mode and there is no end to it, because they won't let go. I have seen people like that. I have no problem at all believing her letter, it rings perfectly plausible to me!

P.S.: Come to Quebec during referendum time, raise the subject (at your peril) in any brasserie French of English, and I promise you you'll see PLENTY of them, and they're all perfectly sane on any other subject! ;-D

People can get unbeLIEvingly emotional about certain subjects. I actually have an ex-customer who has become a good friend, and this is one of the two subjects we canNOT talk about. Mention referendums and separation in front of her, and all of a sudden she turns into a rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth angryphone and I become the embodiment of everything she is mad about with the French - even though I understand her grievances perfectly, I'm not a separatist and my English is better than hers!

@Michelle #11
"Instead of changing the locks, though, I would move all together"
I suggested one after the other, but even is she was to move first, she should change the locks anyway, if only to protect the new people replacing her in that house. And they'll need an alarm system too.

@Paula #15
"Creators.com is not the only website that carries this column. So there is a good chance that LW3 didn't even see the comments you are talking about."
I do believe Mike was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek, although there IS the occasional time when a LW comments BTL, adding some salient details that were missing from the letter as published.

Apart from Arcamax, I don't know where else on the Net the Annies exist, but since the e-mail and snail mail addresses given in print newspapers both connect to Creators, it is to be expected that LWs who want to add their two cents will mostly come to Creators.

@Bobaloo #20
"So what you're saying is that Kylie will never change"
Actually, I think I agree with Chris on that one. What's tipping me off is that she shows no remorse.

If she was heavily addicted to some hard drug, it would be possible that whatever remorse she felt be deeply buried under the priority #1, to get her fix. I would then suggest that perhaps there can be some turn-around if she ever manages to get clean and then, she'd realise the horror of what she once did when he brain was addled by drugs and in the throes of addiction. Because, remove the addiction and the remorse can then resurface, clean on encumbrance.

But I hear no mention of any substance abuse here. She simply has no remorse, period. If the girl is a sociopath, then forget it, she will never change indeed.

#25
"You agree with Chris on everything? That's a scary thought."
Actually, I don't think Chris was off about what he said - on any LW today. I don't know if Kylie "thinks she knows better", my take on her having no remorse is that she very well may have no conscience - now THAT is a scary thought, because it's not fixable. I just hope for LW1's sake that Esther Greenwood is right.

@partsmom #28
"The key is to not be drawn into any further discussion."
Eminently true, as is Mike statement that it's the hardest part of it. But... with age I have learned to detach, not to waste my time on people who cannot be reasoned with, and to use the same line as you. It works - most of the time. ;-D

Re: Lise Brouillette (#30)

Regarding my response to JustWinBaby's post, where I said "You agree with Chris on everything? That's a scary thought."

FWIW – I meant that in general, not necessarily with today's letters. (And I also don't have an opinion on LW3. I'd need to re-read the original LW, see if I commented (please, nobody do that for me) and then give my thoughts.)

Um, I don't think any of us are that far apart with the fact that the LW needs to detach from her daughter and let her live her own battles for at least the time being. (If anyone thinks that, you're sadly mistaken.) Where we diverge is whether the girl will change or is incorrigible.

I'm going to continue on the softer one of those two stances. I just hope it's the right one.

Indeed, I didn't write why the LW's daughter is behaving this way. Not because there wasn't anything said by the LW on what was going on – I admit I had a few ideas in mind, one of which was drugs (also, the possibility she was raped) – but I didn't write it because either I didn't think of it or didn't think it was important, I don't know.

Anything could be going on. I don't know ... I'm not a psychologist and don't know whether a complete psycho – which is close to what Kylie is becoming – is changeable or not.

I went back and looked, and it was as I suspected – I did not comment on the original letter that LW3 is referring to, and have no desire to comment now. No offense.

Re: Bobaloo #31
"FWIW – I meant that in general, not necessarily with today's letters."
Well, that wouldn't be fair, as JustWinBaby was evidently agreeing on Chris' stance about today's letters, not with every post he ever produced. *I* certainly don't agree with every post he ever produced (God knows I've had my differences with him) , but today I largely do.

"Where we diverge is whether the girl will change or is incorrigible."
Not one of us has the answer to that. Only time will tell. Until then, we can only speculate, and each have our own gut feelings.

"(also, the possibility she was raped)"
If she was raped or otherwised traumatised, then she should address it instead of making her mother pay for it. Some of us here went through worse than that, and don't feel that the world is our personal scratching post to get even.

"I'm not a psychologist and don't know whether a complete psycho – which is close to what Kylie is becoming – is changeable or not."
Neither am I. And even if we both were, nobody knows everything and erring is human. Whether she is changeable or not depends on what the problem with her is exactly. I honestly do hope for the LW's sake that Esther Greenwood is right.

Re: Lise Brouillette (#33)

"If she was raped or otherwised traumatised, then she should address it instead of making her mother pay for it. Some of us here went through worse than that, and don't feel that the world is our personal scratching post to get even." and "Whether she is changeable or not depends on what the problem with her is exactly."

Therein lies the mystery ... and to that lies a solution. The ball, it sounds like now, is in Kylie's court.

So with that thought in mind, I ask Kylie ... "If you are reading this ... is there something we should know?"

"I honestly do hope for the LW's sake that Esther Greenwood is right."

And to be honest, so do I.

Re: Bobaloo #20
"There's a reason why the Prodigal Son story is in the Bible (Luke 15: 11-32, in case anyone thinks I'm cooking up a wild story). Granted, Jesus ends the story abruptly – we don't know what became of the Prodigal Son after he was accepted back"

If only Jesus had given us more details we could discuss this properly! Or did Luke edit it out, like the Annies do?
;-D

Re: Paula & Mike H

Although we can't be sure which, if any, LWs read our BTL, we do know it happens, as some of them choose to post here. And I would like to remind everyone of SW in California, who wrote and was published twice in Annie's Mailbox. His second letter, on 4 February said:

"After the letter appeared [2 October], I got a call from my son-in-law, who referred me to some online comments about your column. I was surprised by the negative response."

Also (off the top of my head) Vincent Scoggin, Free in VT, a Bride, and LW2 on 4 April - just last week! (I won't mention by name an other memorable person, suffice it to say - a dog's mouth ...)

Re: Miss Pasko (#35)

Not to start an argument, and I don't remember where I heard it, but there are some biblical and other religious scholars who suggest exactly that – that many details about the stories and events in various translations of the Bible were heavily edited from Scripture ... not necessarily by Luke (or anyone else), either.

But I'm not one to second-guess Jesus, either, so ... .

@Bobaloo, it's actually fairly well-established historical fact that many sects of 1st- and 2nd-century Christians followed teachings and gospels that "didn't make the cut" into the Bible that modern Christians use, which was "solidified" sometime in the 3rd century AD, if I remember correctly.

Miss Pasko (#35)

Please note the winky face. I'm fairly certain the parables are meant to be concise.

Re: MIke H (#38) and Miss Pasko (#39)

So noted – just wanted to cover my bases.

Mike, I think you've heard about the same thing I did regarding the teachings that "didn't make it" into the modern Bible. Thanks for putting it better and more accurately than I could.

Incidentally, about leaving things out – and this could start a whole 'nother argument, I suppose – just read John 21:25 – from the NIV: "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."