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Your neat phrasing only reveals how much they contribute to the total tax revenue. Not a surprise, billions and billions of $$ out there. Your neat phrasing doesn't answer the question of what percent of their incomes do they pay? After these magicians have hidden some of their assets in other countries to avoid paying taxes, after they've moved money from one account to another and then back again to avoid paying the tax, after they've used all the loopholes in the system, what percent are these magicians actually paying? A rhetorical queston, of course. Magician's never reveal their tricks. But trickery it is. You are just the diversion, the clone clown at a certain level of financial and professional success designed to get us to look this way while they move their money that way. The rest of us, we know what percent we pay. We also know the tax system is illegal and designed to protect and insulate the rich. How would it be if those who earn the money actually had a say in how it was spent. That indeed would be the American Dream. Watching the wealthy reap the rewards of our labor and handle our money has turned the American Dream into the American Nightmare.
Comment: #1
Posted by: liz
Thu Oct 9, 2008 8:13 AM
Larry,
Point on as always. Keep it comming!
Comment: #2
Posted by: bob
Thu Oct 9, 2008 6:31 PM
Considering how much money our rich have and they contribute ONLY 40% to the Federal budget is revealing in and of itself. The majority of "job creators' are small businesses, not the corporations, certainly not the rich. If you believe what you write, you're not well informed or you are, indeed, the magician's clown.
Comment: #3
Posted by: liz
Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:54 AM
What a ridiculous analysis. Liz, you are right on the mark. Not only do many of the "rich" manage to hide their wealth, they obtain their wealth through multiple sources. They are not simply taking home a paycheck at the end of the day, they have investments and pay a far less percentage of tax on many of those investments than they would on an annual, salaried income. It's all smoke and mirrors. It's funny how Conservative/Republicans will use any pathetic illusion to cover up their greed and selfishness. Oh, by the way...this is coming from someone who falls into that higher income bracket and whose taxes will go up under Barack Obama so, LARRY ELDER, please stop making it sound like the only people who favor the balance of wealth are those who would take advantage of it. Additionally, I would like to see data on the whole charitable contribution BS outlined...I doubt there is much to substantiate it. Lastly, why wouldn't George Bush and Dick Cheney give a large percentage of their salary to charity when they are making millions off investments in oil - they don't even need a salary! I hardly think Barack or Joe are so well invested all over world like these two are so please stop drawing shallow comparisons, Larry. In fact, I believe I recently heard that Dick Cheney doesn't even have his money invested in American markets...he's invested overseas in off-shore accounts, Euros, etc. Please stop misinforming the masses, Larry - it's unAmerican and irresponsible.

Comment: #4
Posted by: GMT
Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:26 PM
Sir;...It is easier to hide a billion dollars than a hole in your coat. The fact is that every society is a system and every system is closed. Your body is a system. What goes in comes out, and the life remains. If you expand the capitalist system to an international system, it is still a system. But our society is a system, that like a life must live within itself. You would not cut off your arm to feed your face. You wouldn't lose your head to save a minute. I love that one. ...In simple terms, the country has got to support everyone. If you open the borders to bring in cheap labor you don't have less people needing to live, but more. If you starve most people to make a handful rich, the whole place goes in  the toilet. But look at what we do as a country...We don't tax wealth, so the rich can get richer without really having to support the country. Yet, because they once did support the country, they have greater power, the power to influence government, property rights, freedom from search and seizure, and all the rights they have given themselves in support of those rights they already had, free and clear,... which they once deserved.... because property supported the country..... When the income tax was first made constitutional, it only affected a fraction, a small fraction of thepopulation. Since then, labor has carried more and more of the burden of government with no more control of the process, and less of rights. Government led by the rich who did not bear the cost, has done more and m ore of stupid nonsense without hope of profit. And property, as a bank of wealth, supporting little of services has had its speculative value pumped through the roof. The poor working  man has had to work harder, and longer to have a home, which is to say: Rights. He has to pay taxes, so he has to overcome that impediment. Then he must earn profit, and because he must compete with every other stiff  trying to get ahead, his wages are forced lower and lower, so he can't save, but as long as he can borrow he must work that much harder to keep ahead. But wait; after squeezingevery bi t of free capital out of  society, interest does to property what taxes on property should have done all along , and the value of property crashes.  And the story is not over yet... the government could never be supported on the driven down wages of the working class, and the rich have refused to pay their share, and have even borrowed from the government to finance their loans supported by the productive class. And rather than pay taxes for nothing more than they have without paying taxes, they loan to the government at interest the very money spent on their behalf, or loaned to them to make profit. The short side of the story is that the society, which is a common wealth, is run for the privilage and benefit of a fraction who will not lift a finger to support the society which gives them rights and defends their wealth unless compelled to do so at the point of a gun... This society is a system, but some of us cannot figure that fact out...Can you hear the howling already beginning against socialism? Capitalism has had its way. It has proved to be a system of pirates, thieves, war mongers, and rapists. Will they manage to blame the reds when they have had the whole world just as they desired it, over a barrel and paying interest, and the whole house of card fell. Watch them blame the people just as hitler did for his failures... Watch them feed more and more our lives to their beast trying to bring it back to life..Sooner or later they will realize they are not giving it mouth to mouth, but only kissing a corpse....Thanks...Sweeney
Comment: #5
Posted by: James A, Sweeney
Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:48 PM
What TRIPE!!
Here sits Larry Elder, a self proclaimed well educated man, promulgating nonsense numbers that mean nothing....shame on him. He has the Republican liars ability to take some truth and inject it to leaven his position--epitomizing the oxymoron--"figures don't lie but liars figure".
The Truth:
1. Negative Tax Payments
73% of Corporations pay 0 Federal Income Tax--they use artful deductions and off-shoring of funds to get a free ride....
Of that group--24% pay "negative taxes"--meaning that they get in grants, subsidies and credits that manifest as income refunds to their corporate accounts while NOT PAYING ANY TAXES.
Of the two ends of negative income tax---the 32% at the bottom who get cash stipends for the Earned Income Credit or due to Disability Rebates or for being below the owed tax minimums but have significant withholding--vs the 24% of corporate negative tax receivers--the low end received 28 Billion in total benefit--the wealthy Corporations 560 billion in 2007--and that ratio has been consistent since 1998 at about 18 to 1.
2. Burden Sharing
Of all the un-truths by Mr Elder, this is the most egregious.
His 60%+ figure for total share of the tax burden by the wealthiest 5% and above would be true IF the only tax burden in this country was Federal Income Tax. The dirty little secret Mr. Elder doesn't want you to know is that because a large number of those "high income" citizens have no earned income they pay NO TAXES. Think of his proposition this way--and you get closer to the actual truth:
If you take the TOTAL Federal Tax Burden by actual dollars paid, including FICA, their share becomes 49% of the total taxes paid. In terms of creature comforts, education, safety and other social benefits I would submit to you that they gain much more than 49% additional value from our government in benefit by comparison with the average income earner.
But, more importantly, if you look at this as what percentage of "burden" are they carrying; i.e.; what percent of their income does their tax bill impact? --- That number paints a very different picture.
The big shift happens because the "% of tax burden" argument by Mr. Elder and his buddies misses an important factor--it counts only "earned income" ---which accounts for less than 40% of the income for the average person in the "upper 5% category" --most of their income comes from dividends and in capital gains as income --and on that portion of their income they pay virtually no taxes and absolutely no FICA --in effect getting to retain huge sums tax free. To get a measure of the burden sharing you should analyze what's the impact to a person's life of his tax payments.
For the average American, their tax bill is 34% of their total income--a real drag on their ability to purchase and a substantial impact on their well being.
For the upper 5%? When you factor in ALL their income--the average impact is 4%---meaning virtually NO IMPACT to their purchasing power or their well being.
Here's another way to look at it. If the average American paid at the same % level as the rich do, that 45K per year average family would pay only 2500.00 in Federal Income Tax and FICA payments.
Conversely, if Bill Gates paid at the same level as the average American, He would owe 9.8 Billion every year to the treasury.
The richest among us are NOT PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE....That's the truth--And all of Mr. Elders lies can't hide it.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Bruce Stone
Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:29 AM
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