Anybody remember the Sex and the City episode where Charlotte's MIL kept dropping in without knocking? (She had a key.) One day she walked into their bedroom in the morning....................and it was the last time she did that.

I think these reluctant minister's spouses (or potential spouses) need to understand that ministry isn't just a job, like construction worker or receptionist. It's a calling, a lifestyle. It's a motivation to lifelong service, teaching, and comfort of the afflicted. You can't expect a person like that to leave "work AT work" and not have it affect his or her entire life. It's a little like running for political office - it sort of "takes over" and works its way into all facets of your life. And that includes your marriage. Fairly or unfairly, the congregation (and to some extent, society at large) place certain expectations on the spouses of clergy. That's just how it is. Understand that if you want to marry a person of the cloth.

For LW1, How about showing some kindness? She said the FIL had just passed away and she knows Mom is is lonely. She is probably afraid of losing her son also. Maybe he was in her life a lot before this marriage. I had this problem and I just let them (both of them) come over when they wanted and made the time for coffee and a chat. I bet it will get less and less as Mom knows she is welcomed anytime. When I worked they came to just see their son. With my own son, I called first to see if they wanted company or to go out to lunch. I later learned my DIL felt this was intrusive. Well my X daughter in law. The new DIL is a GEM but I still call and when I do, I make it short. I am one of the luckiest Grandma's that live with my daughter and her family as the Nanny. My SIL is a GEM also! BUT I make sure I leave them alone as often as I can and they have their OWN family time. This LW is not a teenager. Just married or not, she can probably show some compassion to her MIL and at the same time, I bet her husband will fall more in love with her than ever!! Having Mom show up 4 times in one month isn't anything I would stress my husband over or my marriage.

LW1 Do you ever invite MIL? Set aside some times to just invite her over for dinner or coffee. Set aside some time to go over to see her. She is lonely. I bet with invitations, the univited dropping over either stops or lessens. And if it doesn't, if she is invited regularly, asking her then to call first won't seem so rejecting. She recently lost her husband, have a little compassion.
LW2 You had better discuss expectations within your future husband's denomination with him. It is all very well to say it is changing, not all minister's spouse's are expected to participate or work within the church. Some churches are changing, but some are not. Find out what is expected in his denomination and what he expects. In some denominations, the minister and his wife are looked at as partners who work together in ministry. In some, she is his helper who supports him, but is free to pursue her own gifts and interests. In some, they are happy if she just shows up at his church for services occasionally. Do not go into it with the idea you will be the exception or you will change the denomination. You will more likely hurt his future ministry instead of making changes in the denomination culture. Also, he may have some personal expectations. Find out ahead of time.

Well, great. Kathy/Marcy are right that it's rude to remark on the friend's changed bustline, but never answered Clueless Clem's question: Why would someone make such an evident physical change in their appearance and be reluctant to acknowledge it? Consider that she may be reluctant to acknowledge it WITH YOU because she didn't have the surgery FOR YOU. Your "compliments" are in fact the drawback to having such procedures -- having others comment on parts of your body is uncomfortable. It's entirely possible your friend had reconstruction surgery after having radical mastectomy; it's possible she had it in response to a husband who'd been philandering; it's possible that she'd always wanted the surgery to get clothing to fit better, but that she'd put it off until kids were through college or whatever. It's also possible that YOUR wife has told your friend that she's always been a little jealous of her, and worried that your jokes bordered on not-so-harmless flirtation.

I could understand being irritated if MiL were always at the house but four unexpected visits in three months? So really, she dropped in maybe once or twice a month and the LW1 is having a fit over it? And it sounds like hubbys headache is from listening to his wife tantrum because his mother showed up for a few hours. When you marry a man, his family comes with. I can never understand why a woman marries a man and then tries to sever his relationship with his family. Especially when it is a woman who just lost her husband. This is a great way to become an ex wife.

Great remark - "it does no one any favors for her to use the two of you as a substitute for a social life".
Intrusive people never change and they even get worse with time, talking and explaining doesn't help, smiling and hoping intruder will finally understand and start respecting your privacy doesn't work either, unfortunately the only option is moving.

Hedgehog- DITTO!!! You took the words right out of my mouth. Just because you see something doesn't mean you have to talk about it. Idiot.

The MIL is a PITA. They tell her ONE TIME that it's inconvenient and she left 6 messages complaining about being unwanted? Good grief woman! It's time for this woman's husband to grow a pair and remind his mom that he's married now. Calling 5 min. before you breeze thru the door does NOT count as calling ahead.

Re: Jennifer I almost agreed with the other person about 4 unannounced visits in 3 months isn't bad. But then you reminded us that MIL left 6 messages whining about being unwanted. THAT is extreme. I have empathy for her losing her husband but he did not just die and is not seeking support from son and DIL through a new, raw, painful time. She wants them to occupy her time and the writer is correct to stop it now. I doubt she felt any worry over this until MIL left 6 messages trying to guilt them into putting her before their other plans.

PITA? What's that?

Hope that the DIL never loses her husband! What an insensitive person...four visits in three months sounds like a nice neighbor or acquaintance. I would guess that MIL feels terribly unwelcome...hence the tantrum. Why not, she IS unwelcome. Notice that the DIL says they go OUT to dinner once a month, not that she has her over. Mom feels she's lost home contact with her son. She just wants a place to hang out. Sounds like the DIL is a more formal person than Mom, which is ok, but she married into his family...should go half-way. One thing about drop-ins, just go on with whatever you were doing beforehand. Just keep painting or cooking and chat over your shoulder. It wouldn't hurt DIL to include Mom in some activity at her house, a small project or craft. DIL is way overreacting. I've had two MIL's and there was always some strain to start with, but both proved wonderful after the ice was broken. DIL is missing a real opportunity to get close....

Re: Rick -- Pain in the a**.

Re: Cathy - palm to forehead...Duh! Thanks!

Re: Ann- Four SURPRISE visits in 3 months. People who "drop in" without calling then have the nerve to whine about being "unwanted" are self-centered and show zero respect for other people's time. So, she's lonely. Got it. Does she expect her son and DIL to take over her entertainment from here on out? For pity's sake, join a club, get a hobby, find some friends, but don't suck the life out of your child and his fledgling family. The LW states she's been married for a year, and for ONE-THIRD of that year this woman has been pulling her little drop in visits. They need to nip this before it gets even more out of control- they don't need to do it rudely, but it should be made clear that our of sheer consideration for respective schedules, a few days notice is not that much to ask. Too many of these MILs treat their sons like surrogate spouses, especially when they become widows. If the son's marriage is to have any hope of thriving, they need to remind the MIL that a marriage is between two people and she's not one of them. Clearly, she can get around on her own so she's not a shut-in. She can just as easily look into activities suited for people her age.

My Father passed away 2 years ago. It has taken probably year and a half for my mother to settle in to this new life without a companion (51yars of marriage) How can Family not help a parent transition into that new life. Don' these people realize that's what family is about, being there especially in times of pain and loneliness. If shown this love and support she will see that life goes on and it can be good. Shame on you 40 year old selfish children, you think her visiting every 2 weeks is way to much. Maybe helping her find new friends through groups and clubs is the answer.I hope you rethink what family is. Someday you might be in the same shoes and just need that hug and presence of another soul, I hope your family does better for you, than you have for your new family.

I can't believe the mother-in-law wants to waste her time with such negative, controlling people as the son and DIL appear to be. She doesn't sound like she is using them as a substitute for a social life - not when she was out and about driving when she tried to stop by. What were they doing that was so important that they couldn't see the woman who raised and loved the husband? How many times growing up did she make time for him? I wish my in-laws or parents were alive so I could see them just one more time.

I find miserable in Missouri a pretty selfish person. I agree that dropping in unanounced isn't great but good God have some compassion. When my FIL died I took my MIL out 4-5 times a week and my husband saw his Mother every day for at least a year. I will never regret it, It cemented a bond between us and made us more like Mother and daughter. We still do shopping and lunch together all the time after 8 yrs and my hubby still sees her almost every day. She has friends and they go places as well. Miserable should try to include her MIL in grocery shopping, mall hopping, going out to dinner even arts & crafts projects . I would bet that her MIL would be so delighted that when DIL requested kindly that MIL call instead of just dropping in, that she would be whole lot more cooperative and considerate. I have a very happy and greatful husband. So pull your head out of your own little world before you end up alone. By the way, I was also taking care of my Mother who had leukemia at this time as well.

I am a divorced woman in my 50s, and have been dating a man for several months with whom I feel very close; he gives many signs that we are headed for a long-term relationship. “Darrel” and I have started socializing with a couple (“Diane” and “George”) who are long-time friends of his. I enjoy our time with George and Diane.

Darrel has told me on more than one occasion that he likes Diane better than George, and that Diane calls him practically every day. Darrel told me that one of their main topics of conversation is George, and the sometimes derogatory way he treats Diane. Although I do have some jealousy and readily admit that, I believe Darrel when he tells me that this is purely friendship, and that Diane needs someone with whom to vent her feelings about George.

Am I wrong in thinking that this topic should be avoided between the two of them? My feeling is that the topic of George would be better discussed in a therapy or counseling situation for Diane; she puts Darrel in the middle of their relationship when she brings up George in their private conversations, forcing Darrel to be two-faced with George in social settings.

Your advice on this is most appreciated.

--Getting Beyond Jealousy