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When Does a Vacation Home Become a Hotel?
Dear Annie: My 81-year-old mother passed away several months ago. One of her final wishes was that my older sister and I get along.
Sis inherited Mom's house, but she lives five hours away and didn't want it, so I purchased the house from the estate. I have a sentimental attachment to it, since my father built the place and that's where we grew up. I go there on my days off to do maintenance and upkeep.
My sister is welcome to stay there any time. She was there for Memorial Day and July 4th, and e-mailed that she plans to visit for Labor Day. I told her she is welcome, but the house costs me nearly $400 a month in utilities, taxes, etc., and she should chip in something. She replied that Mom would not want her to pay to stay at the family home. She refuses to give me anything for expenses.
It isn't the money. It's the principle. I think $15 a day is fair. If I happen to be at the house at the same time, I'm willing to split the cost in half. So, Annie, what do you say? — Sam in Pittsburgh
Dear Sam: This is the equivalent of your vacation home. Generally, when one invites a relative to stay, one doesn't charge them for the hospitality. However, if Sis is using the family home as a vacation destination, meaning she invites herself and goes when you are not there, it is similar to a hotel and she should pay accordingly. Her visits undoubtedly raise the water and electric bills, so it costs you money. We think $15 a day is a terrific deal for her, and she should not complain.
Dear Annie: My sister and her fiance have been planning their wedding for two years. One of their few requests is that the men in the wedding party wear tuxedos. Our father is the only one refusing to do so, although cost is not an issue. He also has made it clear he isn't interested in participating in a father-of-the-bride dance, and we're not even sure he'll walk her down the aisle.
My sister and my father have always had a wonderful relationship, and he approved of the wedding until he realized they were getting married "so soon." His behavior is embarrassing for our entire family. I don't think it's asking too much for him to wear a tux on such an important occasion. Should we just let him be his usual "easier not to" self and wear a suit? — Tuxless in Bettendorf, La.
Dear Tuxless: We'll grant that Dad sounds like a spoiled brat, but forcing him to behave like an adult will only create ill-will on the big day. He may have some unresolved issues that make him reluctant to participate in his daughter's wedding, so you may as well leave him alone. We hope your sister will ask a male relative or her new father-in-law to step in for a father-daughter dance and any other such charming obligations that her father cannot be bothered with.
Dear Annie: "Cautious Canadian" was worried that "Nick," a sex offender, had keys to all the apartments in her building. Society doesn't deal well with sex offenders. It's difficult to find a balance between protecting others and allowing ex-offenders to live normal lives after they have served their time. Because so many re-offend, it's hard to feel generous toward anyone who is in that category.
I don't think Nick should lose his job as the informal super, but he should not have keys to the apartments. Having such access will tempt him to re-offend. Also, if word gets out that Nick is on probation, he might be blamed for real or imagined thefts or damages for which he isn't responsible. I am, however, annoyed that "Canadian's" husband wasn't more protective. He's either naive or is disregarding her fears, possibly leaving her in danger. — Cambridge, Mass.
Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please e-mail your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 5777 W. Century Blvd., Ste. 700, Los Angeles, CA 90045. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
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45 Comments | Post Comment
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LW1: Obviously your sister is taking advantage of you. She didn't want the responsibility of caring for the house or the costs associated with it. It's absurd that she expects you to pick up the tab for her vacation stays. She can ony walk on you if you allow it. You will need to be polite but firm that the utilities must be paid during the time she is there. Any reasonable person would offer to make that arrangement. If it was your mother's wish that the two of you get along, that tells me you've been at odds with each other for quite some time. Doesn't look like things are going to change just because that was your mother's wish. Your sister is trying to guilt you into allowing her to stay for free by saying mom wouldn't want her to pay to stay in the family home. Be clear that it's no longer the family home, it's YOUR home.
Comment: #1
Posted by: JustMe
Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:17 PM
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I disagree with JustMe. I think the brother is being a little silly. Fifteen dollars a day is not going to help much toward the utilities, etc. It seems to me that the real intent is to "get" the sister. She, of course, is being a bit silly in return. They both need to grow up.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Connie Tyler
Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:24 PM
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LW2: Unfortunately the LW doesn't state the father's reasons for refusing to wear a tux or participate in a father-daughter dance. My husband hates dancing and he highly dislikes getting dressed up. He makes choking sounds when he puts on a tie!! (eventually that passes, but it take a few minutes) But, he sucked it all up for the sake of our daughter when she got married. Put on a tux, complete with cumberbun, walked her down the aisle in a beautiful outdoor wedding and during the reception, did ok by moving his feet mostly in time to the music for the F-D dance. It meant a lot to our daughter and he was happy to do it for her. I don't get WHY the LW's father is being such a jerk. If that's what he is, then accept it and take the Annie's suggestion and get an uncle, brother, grandfather or anyone else to step in. You can't control what your father does, but you CAN smile and have a wonderful day.
Comment: #3
Posted by: JustMe
Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:25 PM
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LW3: I say allow "Dad" to wear a suit & tie to the wedding, give him the honor he is due as father-of-the-bride, and leave him alone. It doesn't matter what his problems is. He doesn't want to wear a tux; don't force it. Tuxedos are for the groom and his attendants anyway, not the fathers of the couple. At the wedding, the attention will be focused on the bridal couple and nobody is going to care that "Dad" isn't wearing a tux. At least he isn't wanting to attend the wedding in blue jeans, T-shirt and flipflops. If he refuses to perform his duties at the reception, find that out ahead-of-time and arrange a substitute...but don't hassle him about the clothes.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Matt
Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:46 PM
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I see LW1's point. It's the principle of the thing. I think he's trying to get along with Sis, and that's why he's letting her stay at the house (probably even gave her a key) and she's being ungrateful and just feeling entitled because it was once her home. I think Sis should show him her thanks in some way. Complying with paying would be nice. Or offering to help pay for a gardener or some of the upkeep on the house. I think LW1 is not going to get a penny from her though. Her attitude is probably "Well, it's just sitting there empty anyway. He's not making money if it's empty." And so if she leaves it in good condition when she's not there, he may ultimately choose to let it slide. But if he finds that she's staying, not paying, AND he's having to clean up after her messes in the kitchen, throw out her trash, and refill the toilet paper because she used it all, then he should just change the locks (if she has a key) and tell her that he's no longer letting anyone else stay there.
LW2's father sounds very selfish to me. I hope the bride doesn't keep waiting on pins and needles, getting nervous about how he might behave, and not knowing if she'll have a father-daughter dance from now until the wedding. She should take back control. She should decide what's important to her. Does she think her father would miss her wedding just so he wouldn't have to wear a tux? What kind of a point is he trying to make by that anyway? Is a tux more uncomfortable to wear than a suit? She can either let him wear what he wants (and hope it's a suit, not blue jeans) or call his bluff and say that if he respected her at all, and didn't want to humiliate her or himself in front of everyone else by blatantly being different, he'd show her that he cares about her feelings. If he's unsure about the father-daughter dance, she should find out why. Afraid of dancing in public? He can take some dance classes or she can bend on that issue and maybe veer from tradition and have him just make a longer speech. If he just doesn't like the groom, or doesn't want his little girl to get married and is afraid that he'll cry on the dance floor in front of everyone, she needs to work that out with him before the wedding by listening to why he dislikes the groom or can't handle that she's growing up. But I wouldn't wait till the wedding day to see if he'd walk me down the aisle or not. She'll be far too emotional. Who wants to find out as the music starts playing, whether or not she'll be walking alone? She should give him until X time before the wedding (like 6 months) to tell her whether or not he will, or just plan for him not to walk down with her and just choose someone else instead or plan to walk alone. From reading this, I feel like he's just jerking her around for some reason. Toying with her emotions. Based on LW2's words "My sister and my father have always had a wonderful relationship," I think the father is hoping that his daughter will cancel the wedding, and this is his passive-aggressive way of getting her to do it. Or maybe he's just very immature and is testing to see how much she'll bend over backwards to please him and beg him.
@Matt, based upon their previously "wonderful relationship" you might have a point with the "the honor he is due as father-of-the-bride." But just because a man has fathered a child does not necessarily mean his is due any honor. I've known many people whose fathers were lucky to even be invited to their children's weddings. They weren't even "due" that.
LW3 - I remember our discussion last time. After that, I did some research and found that where I live (Western US) sex offender registries only list felons - violent sex offenses. So they don't list frat boys who got drunk and peed in public or teenagers that mooned passing cars.
I agree that a violent sex offender (if Nick falls into that category) should not have keys to anyone's apartment but his own. And I agree with LW3 that Canadian's husband should have been more concerned for his wife and others and taken her fears more seriously.
Comment: #5
Posted by: FAW
Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:15 AM
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Two years and counting to plan a wedding? Tuxedos and dances are the least of their problems! If these two had any intention of being married, they'd have done it by now. Sounds like the bride's father is the only sensible one in the bunch.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Baldrz
Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:19 AM
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To Sam (LW 1) my feeling is that asking your sis to pay a mere "fifteen bucks a day" for using your home is more about control, not about the money. Most people agree that Sis should pay and even cover the use of utilities. Your Sis is not about to change, so either let this go or you will cause more problems "getting along" with Sis, thus not "abiding by" your mother's final wishes that you stop quarreling. Apparently your arguments have gone on for a long, long time if your mother was compelled to make that a final request. To Tuxless (LW 2) sounds as if your dad is creating a lot of stress for you on your important day. Either have a frank talk with him ahead of time, or let go of the tux and father-daughter dance with him. Please ask someone else to walk you down the aisle. Your dad sounds as if he might agree to do it, then "back out" at the precise, real moment and cause you further stress and unhappiness. DON'T give him that much power over you. To Cambridge, Mass (LW 3) I think you should report Nick to his parole officer. They probably know his job is "super" of a building but probably they don't know that he has keys to every apartment. Sex offenders have rules to follow, especially when there are children and/or single women living without roommates, where he will be even more tempted to offend again. Ask any district attorney and he/she will tell you that sexual offenders have 4 times the normal recidivism rate, higher than any other crime, including murder. As a survivor of kidnapping and rape when I was 3 1/2 years old, I've researched this issue, at least in my state, California. Report Nick immediately.
Comment: #7
Posted by: Jean
Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:40 AM
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LW1: You bought the house, after determining Sis wasn't interested, and are paying to maintain it. I do get Sis's feeling that she's being charged to stay in the home she grew up with, but I think you can avoid some of that with how you phrase things. Your parents didn't charge you because they were your parents, and living there. You would never charge her as a guest in your permanent home, and you wouldn't charge her when you invite her to stay with you at this home. BUT if she's visiting when you're not there, it would be most gracious of her to recognize that keeping up the family home costs YOU money, and that her presence in the home does incur some extra cost (electricity, AC, water) to you that you would otherwise not have. So it would be kind of her to pay a token amount to reimburse you for those costs.
LW2: Sounds to me like Dad is deathly afraid of being in the spotlight. If his job doesn't require that, and if he tends to not be the life of the party, but hang back on the fringes, being in special attire, walking the bride down the aisle as everyone turns to watch and having the dance floor clear except for him and his daughter is the stuff of nightmares. I've got a few in my family like that, and I try not to push them. He doesn't need to wear a tux if he doesn't want one, and it's not uncommon for brides to have both parents walk them down the aisle. See if Dad's comfortable with that, and if not, she can walk herself down --that's also not uncommon, given that the symbolism is pretty much outdated. The dance --if I were the bride, I'd prefer not to have a spotlight turn with a surrogate dad, but maybe she feels differently. Obviously, it would have been good if he'd addressed his fears 2 years ago so he could step up and then eventually enjoy the memory of his part in the wedding. But he didn't, so the alternative is to plan around and focus not on what's missing, but on enjoying on what's there.
Comment: #8
Posted by: hedgehog
Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:17 AM
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LW1's sister sounds like she wants her cake and to eat it too. She didn't want the trouble and expense of keeping up the family home so she allowed her brother to purchase it. Now that he bears the burden, she expects to come and go as she pleases, for free! Um, no; that's not how things work in the real world. To borrow one of Sarah Morrow's expressions, this brother needs to grow a pair and inform his sister that putting her up isn't cheap and that if she continues to use the family home then she'll be charged to stay there. Personally, $15.00 a day is a steal anyway and she'd be a fool to create family friction over such a paltry sum. Given the fact that the mother's dying wish was for her children to "get along" I suspect this sister delights in walking all over her brother and it has become a pattern. LW1 needs to put a stop to it once and for all if not for himself, for his mother's sake.
LW2 should realize that her father's behavior is his way of exerting control over the wedding. By refusing to wear a tux and cooperate with the traditional wedding activities, he's acting like a spoiled brat and focusing the attention that should be on the happy couple onto himself. What a drama queen! LW2's sister should simply inform their father that his wedding day services will not be required. In fact, she should tell him he need not bother to attend at all since he obviously doesn't approve of the marriage taking place so "soon" and weddings should only be attended by those who support the nuptials. A cherished family friend or favorite uncle or grandparent will be standing in for him. Once he hears this news, he may straighten up or not but at least the couple won't have the additional drama to deal with on their big day.
Comment: #9
Posted by: Chris
Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:19 AM
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lw2 was the bride's SIS, not the bride! she should have a talk with dad to see what the problem really is. and i agree that if dad wants to wear a suit instead of a tux, who cares. and if the bride wants to do a special dance, plan it with someone else.
Comment: #10
Posted by: used2Bhello
Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:22 AM
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LW1: Keep it simple. Rent out the house, then your sister can't just help herself to it any more.
Comment: #11
Posted by: also tired
Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:57 AM
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I have to wonder if TUxless's father is like mine? My dad is very old school, depression era baby, blue collar worker and not extremely intelligent (I'm not being mean, its just my dad). He is almost 80 years old and has worn a suit maybe twice in his life. I believe he gets embarrassed. Its just not him. He's uncomfortable and feels silly in a suit. He would NEVER wear a tux. Fish out of water and all that. Yeah, he's a little odd, my old dad, but we love him. You just sometimes have to give in to his idiosyncracies to have a peaceful day.
Comment: #12
Posted by: Judie
Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:19 AM
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You're kiddin' me, Annies! The obvious reply to LW1's sister's excuse, "Mom wouldn't want me to pay to stay here" can only be, "Well, I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted me to have to buy it from the estate either, but I did." It is NO LONGER the family home, it is the writer's home. Sis rejected her opportunity to keep a stake in it -- and therefore all claims to free access.
Lay off the Dad, guys; we don't know his circumstances. My dad can be a real jerk in social situations, including at my sister's wedding. He has combat-related PTSD, making him extremely nervous around crowds; he becomes anxious and irritable far in advance of events, which he avoids like the plague. My son has social anxiety, making him hypersensitive to anything that draws attention to himself (like wearing a tux or dancing in front of a crowd - yikes!). Maybe LW2's dad really is a spoiled baby. But it sounds alot like something else is going on here, and maybe the kids are the ones being a little selfish. Besides, how can any day be made happier by making another person miserable? Don't support Bridezillas and their minions.
Comment: #13
Posted by: Honor Girl
Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:31 AM
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LW1 doesn't indicate if he paid outright for the home or if there is a mortgage, but the house costs him nearly $400 a month in upkeep for utilities, taxes, etc... doing the math, that's $13.33/day- so, rounding up to $15 sounds reasonable.
Sis didn't want the house. When Sam bought it, he paid the estate. Does that mean that sis inherited the amount of money that was paid for the house OR was the purchase price added to the monetary assets of the estate and split between the sibs?? (If money was split then Sis may be feeling entitled...)
Upon selling the home, Sis gave up all rights. If John Doe had bought the home would she still be showing up saying "this is my family home- I want to spend the weekend"?
I don't think it is unreasonable for Sam to charge Sis (or anybody else) a nominal fee to use a vacation home to vacation...
Comment: #14
Posted by: MMB
Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:35 AM
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If it was an issue for mom that you two "got along" after she passed, there obviously were things in your relationship that were sensitive. Because you purchased the home from the estate, it is now your property. Would you allow her to borrow your car or boat at any time without compensation or chipping in for gas? Probably not. The way I see it is that your sister still believes it is the "family home" and treats it accordingly. Kick her out.
Comment: #15
Posted by: corin
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:06 AM
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In LW1's view, clearly his sister is being unreasonable. But I wonder if he has provided all the relevant information?
If the sister inherited the house, did he inherit cash? And when the sister gave up the house, how were the proceeds divided? It wouldn't surprise me to learn that the sister has some unresolved grudge from the settlement of the estate. If the sister felt the settlement was not fair, she may be acting out her feelings by refusing to pay for staying at the house. Is that justified? I would have to hear her side of the story.
There's also the chance that though the settlement was 50/50, the sister may be very needy, with a much lower income than her brother's. She may have been unable to afford upkeep on the house, and perhaps believed that her mother intended that her brother subsidize her enjoyment of the house. I'm not saying it's a correct feeling....but if that is how she feels, then the arguments about reasonableness, utilities cost, etc. will not go far. The brother and sister need to get all their feelings on the table.
Anyway, I would say look for the reasons that the sister feels entitled. Is there any justification, or is she always acting entitled. If there is any justification then I would strive to address that rather than quibble about $15 a day.
Comment: #16
Posted by: alina
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:17 AM
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MMB, I'm sure the money was split. LW1 essential bought his sister's half of the house.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Zoe
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:27 AM
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I dont understand why this column can't post a link to the past column's that are referenced so that their readers can easily go back and read that column helping them understand what's going on.
Comment: #18
Posted by: brunner
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:36 AM
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How about if LW1 invested in gas-powered tools for yard maintenance - weedwacker, lawn mower, hedge trimmer - and had the utilities turned off? There's a valve inside the home where he could keep the water shut off during preiods when he's not around; if he has a cell phone, there's no need for phone service; and with gas-powered tools, he wouldn't need electricity. If sis showed up a few times and found she had no electricity, gas or water, she'd have a hissy fit and then stop showing up. After the initial shock on her part - and she's confirmed that the power isn't merely turned off at the circuit breaker board, he can have the power restored and merely throw the switch at the breaker box to kill the power to the house. Naturally, during colder months the heat, along with whatever powers it, should be turned on. Once sis has seen that she'll have to pay to have the utilities turned on when she's there, she'll stop showing up.
Comment: #19
Posted by: graham072442
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:40 AM
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I'm wondering if after two years of planning Dad is just sick of it and does not want to discuss any of it anymore. Leave him alone already. Two years and the wedding is still in planning stage? Really? After two years of planning and no wedding yet I'd be real over hearing about any of it.
Comment: #20
Posted by: Rick
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:41 AM
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I think the conflicts in both LW1 and LW2 are the usual messy power struggles people go through when they're pretending it's something else. LW1 and his sister have a history of not getting along. She inherited the house, didn't want it, he bought it, now she wants to act as though it's still hers. For $15 a day, this isn't about money - it's about her being able to mark territory as hers when it really belongs to him. He doesn't have to put up with it, and Mom doesn't have to get her "dying wish."
LW2 said the father gets along well with the daughter and was fine with a wedding - until it started getting closer ("so soon.") I think he doesn't want her getting married at all and is doing a childish "you can't go because I'll sit here on the ground with my arms folded" routine. The bride should tell him to wear what he wants and someone else will walk her down the aisle. She can do this nicely, saying she's decided to take the pressure off of him.
Comment: #21
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:43 AM
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How about if LW1 invested in gas-powered tools for yard maintenance - weedwacker, lawn mower, hedge trimmer - and had the utilities turned off? There's a valve inside the home where he could keep the water shut off during preiods when he's not around; if he has a cell phone, there's no need for phone service; and with gas-powered tools, he wouldn't need electricity. If sis showed up a few times and found she had no electricity, gas or water, she'd have a hissy fit and then stop showing up. After the initial shock on her part - and she's confirmed that the power isn't merely turned off at the circuit breaker board, he can have the power restored and merely throw the switch at the breaker box to kill the power to the house. Naturally, during colder months the heat, along with whatever powers it, should be turned on. Once sis has seen that she'll have to pay to have the utilities turned on when she's there, she'll stop showing up.
Comment: #22
Posted by: graham072442
Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:44 AM
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"Mom would not want her to pay to stay at the family home???"
Tell Selfish Sis that YOU are paying to UPKEEP the family home. Tell Selfish Sis that Mom would not want You to pay for Her to stay at the family home, which is essentially what you are doing. Give her one week a year where she can stay for free. Other dates, tell her you are renting out to others, because you need the money or something. You don't need this stress.
Comment: #23
Posted by: Salty
Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:03 AM
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LW1-I agree with the sentiment that LW1's sister gave up her rights when she sold her half of the family home to her brother. If this home is near a popular vacation spot, then $15 a day is a definite steal. I would gladly pay it if it were me.
LW2-Assuming that there are no underlying psychological reasons LW2's father is refusing to wear the tux and dance with his daughter, I think he needs to suck it up for his daughter's sake. For example, I do not particularly like football, basketball or baseball. If either of my children actively pursues one of these sports, I will gladly show up at their events and cheer loudly for them for their sakes. I have known many parents who refused to attend their children's events because “they didn't like that sort of thing or they just didn't feel like it.” Needless to say, it made their children feel very unimportant. Sometimes you do things for people just to show you care.
LW3-I also agree with many of the posters here; LW3 needs to check on the laws in her state and contact this man's parole officer if necessary. Her husband sounds like he might be the kind of person who wants to give everyone a chance (then again, he could just be that blind). While this is an admirable quality, I have seen this come back to bite many people. I think second chances need to be given on a case-by-case basis.
Comment: #24
Posted by: LibraryKat
Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:26 AM
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I own Peach Brandy Cottage, a Wedding & Special Event venue, and would suggest to the bride that she omit the father-daughter dance uynder these circumstances. Let the bride & groom be introduced, have their first dance, then let things move on. If her father isn't comfortable with walking her down the aisle, she should consider (1) Walking herself down the aisle. Brides don't have to be "given away" these days, or (2) having the groom walk her down the aisle. The groom would already be at the altar, the wedding party would enter, then the door would open for everyone to see the bride. The groom would walk to her and escort her down the aisle. Dad could sit with mom on the front row and be a guest, which seems to be what he wants anyway.
Comment: #25
Posted by: Caroline
Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:50 AM
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I agree with Baldrz, the couple has been planning a wedding that should have already occoured. Weather or not her father wears a tux or shorts and flip-flops, she will be just as married. Personally, I think they should just get married anywhere, wearing anything. The wedding is not the main event, the marriage is what counts!
Comment: #26
Posted by: Cheryl
Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:08 AM
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I say leave Dad alone to do his own thing. If he doesn't want to dance, there should NOT be a father-daughter dance. To have another man take Dad's place would be not only insulting to Dad, it would be ludicrous. There is no set pattern that every wedding must follow exactly. Each wedding is different in ways to reflect not only the bride and groom but the family members. One of the most memorable weddings (memorable in a nice way) was one I attended about 50 years ago. It was my cousin's wedding and it was probably one of the most "formal" wedding I've attended in my life. She was wearing her fiance's grandmother's beautiful wedding gown that was made of Spanish lace. It had a long train that flowed out down the aisle behind her. The wedding took place in a large, elaborate Catholic church with the longest aisle I've ever seen a bride walk down with the exception of Princess Diana. My uncle was a really down to earth type of guy who had been a farmer and was a factory worker at the time of this wedding. But he caved and wore a tux. But on his feet were a brand new pair of - not wingtips but - brown canvas shoes of the type he usually wore. He had absolutely refused to go whole hog and no one was going to get him to wear formal dress shoes. His brown canvas shoes were his trademark you could say. Halfway down the very long aisle he put his hand in his pocket and brought something out and held it in front of his daughter's face. "Want a pretzel?" he asked. When she just looked at him, he started to eat it himself while continuing to walk down the aisle. She later told me she'd been a nervous wreck and practically shaking as she walked down the aisle. Her father's pretzel incident made her laugh and she relaxed. She said everything was so much better after that. The incident with the pretzel and my uncle's brown canvas shoes did not ruin the wedding. Those things added to the wedding and made it unique and memorable. Weddings are about families most of all since a new family is being created and two families are being joined. So each wedding should represent those famililes as well. So the lw should allow her dad to participate in the wedding in his own unique way and look at this as being something unique and wonderful rather than irksome.
Comment: #27
Posted by: Pat-tricia
Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:48 AM
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Re: Caroline
I agree with you completely. It sounds like everyone is making way too much of this. Let dad attend the wedding but walk yourself down the aisle. And just omit a dance. Whether dad is trying to protest the wedding or he's just uncomfortable in a tux, this has somehow become an unnecessary power struggle. And by the way, the pictures of Peach Cottage are beautiful.
LW1: Talk about power struggles. I think both of them are being silly. Something tells me that this brother and sister made their mothers life a living hell by bickering about every little thing when she was alive. Sister is silly for thinking she can still crash at the family home for free while her brother fits the bill. And brother should not allow himself to be walked on, but he needs to either let this money go entirely or put his foot down instead of dragging this out. If the house is truly in his name, it is either the $45 a weekend or she can make other arrangements for her vacations. Something tells me there will be no love lost here either way.
Comment: #28
Posted by: Datura
Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:46 AM
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LOL L.A.Graham, with your solution for LW 1 being to turn off the utilities - though if Sis has notified her brother ahead of time that she's coming, he should first give her the opportunity to contribute something for her stay. If she balks, then advise her you're turning things off - which I think is a good thing to do anyway, with an unoccupied house. I also liked the idea (Matt?) about changing the locks. Of course Sis will be annoyed, but it sounds like there will eventually be a rift between them anyway.
It's possible that LW 2's father has paralyzing stage fright - I've had phases of this in my life, and remember being terrified to walk down the aisle as a bridesmaid in my brother's wedding. But I managed somehow. I think the wisest idea is to lovingly let Dad know you hope he can handle it, but if not, you promise to have someone to stand in for him at the last minute if necessary. Then have an uncle, brother, or other relative or friend standing by in the back of the church, prepared to step up and take Dad's place. The same goes for the dance at the reception. And do not reproach Dad if he can't manage it - just hug him and tell him you're glad he was there to see you married!
Comment: #29
Posted by: Linda
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:05 AM
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LW3: Why should anyone be concerned with "balancing" the needs of the public with allowing offenders to live "normal" lives after they have "served their time"? What, exactly, entitles a violent offender or a sex offender to a normal life when his or her victim has no such opportunity? Admittedly, locking a person up indefinitely is a little bit extreme, but criminals need to know that there are often LIFELONG consequences for that one-time screw-up. Too many people believe in cafeteria justice, where after an offender has paid for what he or she has done by serving some time or paying a fine, he or she is entitled to go do the same thing to somebody else.
It's gotten so bad that when a prospective victim objects to being lined up for slaughter, the prospective victim is the one scolded by society and also by the offender for not being understanding enough or flexible enough. Somehow it's become OK for people to rape, but it's not OK for prospective rape victims to want a chance to choose whether or not they're being lined up for an attack by a system that's so fixated on giving offenders a second chance at a normal life that they're willing to deprive a completely innocent victim of a FIRST chance at a normal life.
Comment: #30
Posted by: R.A.
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:30 AM
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LW2- I don't understand why so many people seem to care about dad's feelings instead of the bride's. Supposedly, he's already been married. He's already had his day. LW2 says "Should we just let him be his usual 'easier not to' self." So, it sounds like things are always his way or the highway. And people are always bending to his will. I can respect if he doesn't want to walk her down the aisle or do a dance. She may not want someone else to fill those shoes since the reason you would have your dad do those things is because of your relationship with him, not because you have to dance with someone or walk with someone. But I imagine she wants wedding pictures. She may not want a photo on the wall of the entire wedding party, all wearing formal attire and them him in a brown suit. Hanging on her wall on her stairway for her to pass every day on her way to work and remember "My dad couldn't accommodate my wishes for ONE day." Someone who wants to stand out by wearing something different on the wedding day is not someone who is scared of being noticed. He's telling his daughter that his feelings are more important than hers, not only every other day of the year, but even on her wedding day.
And the bride and groom might have been planning their wedding for two years because they were very young when they got engaged and didn't see a need to get married before college graduation, for example.
Comment: #31
Posted by: FAW
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:56 AM
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People never cease to amaze me with these rigid rules about weddings. I've been married twice (first ended in an amicable divorce and we're still friends) and had beautiful, small, unconventional weddings both times. Years later, people still talk about how nice my last one was. Furthermore, planning a wedding for TWO YEARS doesn't pass the sniff test. Maybe Dad is trying to tell this couple something. In any case, leave him alone and think outside the box. Your wedding will be all the more memorable for it. And besides, as many others have pointed out, it's the marriage that counts, not the wedding. I suspect this bride (and maybe the groom) are fixated on the former and forgetting about the latter. It's just one day and it's not a Broadway production! Just get on with it, or elope, or forget about it.
Comment: #32
Posted by: Claire Beatty
Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:15 PM
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Re: Claire Beatty - "It's just one day and it's not a Broadway production! Just get on with it, or elope, or forget about it". I love this. Perfect!
Comment: #33
Posted by: Rick
Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:48 PM
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Regarding LW2, I think some of you are off in your advice. First, not all fathers (bride or groom) wear a tux. Often, tuxedos are only for the bridal party, not others. The father COULD wear a tux, but he doesn't have to. A suit looks great. If he had any physical limitations, this may be his reason for not wanting to wear more restrictive clothing (and that could include him simply being a large man). These same limitations may be reasons for why he isn't interested in other events. None of this is stated in the letter. Hence, the bride (and sister) should work with what's given and not force anything.
As for the bride taking "2 years to plan" her wedding, this may be misleading. They may have become engaged 2 years ago, and therefore have been "planning" since then. But really, it may have been only recently that they felt they were ready to move forward with the wedding. Some couples are engaged for a while for a variety of reasons (school, finances, jobs, family issues, age, etc.). None of this is indicated in the letter.
Comment: #34
Posted by: JJH
Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:52 PM
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Re: Zoe
Sis inherited the house... the house wasn't part of Sam's inheritance, which is why he bought it...
Comment: #35
Posted by: MMB
Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:30 PM
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God I am sick of people whining about their vacation homes. How many letters can be printed about someone's vacation home and all the 'problems' that go with it. You know what? If you have a vacation home or cottage SHUT UP!! You have no problems! Eff off!
Comment: #36
Posted by: Jess
Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:10 PM
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Re: FAW
The point of getting engaged is to start planning your wedding. If they weren't ready to do that, they weren't really engaged. Sounds like they're more interested in throwing a party than in being married. Either way, two years to plan a wedding is ridiculous. I doubt they'll be married that long.
Comment: #37
Posted by: Baldrz
Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:35 PM
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I'm really surprised about the vitriol here for long engagements! Especially given that the economy was so bad for the last couple of years--it's even possible that the parents asked them to delay the wedding to allow the parents time to save their contribution to the party!
I really don't think the point of getting engaged is to start planning your wedding, but to prepare yourself mentally for the change from being single to married -- to see how your intended handles commitment, to signal future in-laws that you will soon be part of their family and allow them to act accordingly (you don't want to get too close to someone who's not going to last), and to see how the two of you react to problems larger than "Do you want Chinese or pizza?"
FAW, if I saw a picture of my dad in a brown suit hanging on my wall amid all the tuxes, it would honestly make me laugh out loud, and I'd look forward to showing it to my kids. My dad stepped up to the plate and wore the tux graciously -- but I'd told him the choice was his, if he preferred to wear his suit, then that was perfectly appropriate attire. And I meant it -- his presence at the wedding meant the world to me. This is family -- not Barbie and Ken dolls that you get to dress and pose, even on "YOUR day" (a phrase I really hate).
Comment: #38
Posted by: hedgehog
Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:26 AM
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Re: Connie Tyler
Connie Tyler,
If you do the math, you'll see that $15 x 14 days = $210.00. The letter writer said the utilities run $400 a month. If someone paid 1/2 of my utilities, I'd be ecstatic!
His freeloading sister should definitely pay something for staying at her brother's vacation house.
Comment: #39
Posted by: Interested Reader
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:19 AM
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I'm with hedgehog about some of the posters here jumping on LW2's sister concerning her long engagement. How long do you consider long enough? LW2 doesn't state her sister's reasons and there may be more to the story about the situation. Like hedgehog said, it could be financial; perhaps LW2's sister and her fiancee are paying for the wedding themselves?
My husband and I got engaged in April of one year and set our wedding date for October of the following year. Our engagement lasted one year and seven months. The reason? We were both still in college when he proposed. His graduation date was set for May of the year we married and mine was set for August of that same year. We thought it best to wait until we finished our bachelor degrees. He was considering graduate school and was accepted to UT-Knoxville before he finished his B.S.
As for the length of the engagement predicting the length of the marriage, my husband and I will be celebrating our 12th anniversary this year (a milestone considering the current divorce rate). Therefore, one has no bearing on the other. If anything, I would think the opposite is more likely true but I don't think that is necessarily the case, either. What really matters is how committed the partners are to their marriage.
Comment: #40
Posted by: LibraryKat
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:24 AM
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I agree with hedgehog and librarykat, a long engagement is not a bad thing. They could easily be very young and waiting to graduate OR it could be the father holding up the wedding, since he doesn't seem to really want it to happen. Apparently the closer it gets the more upset he is at the thought of "losing" his daughter. I think that's the biggest problem and the main reason for him not wanting to wear a tux or walk her down the aisle. There's no reason to think that it's an anxiety problem. Sounds like dad isn't ready for his darling daughter to get married and he is trying to find ways to avoid being a part of it or possibly make it not happen. That's a big problem that the couple needs to work out with him. The brother or sister who wrote in about it can help be a part of the discussion but this is really about the daughter and her dad working things out and figuring out why he isn't interested in being a part of her wedding day, despite their close relationship.
Also,to the person who mentioned bridezilla - I didn't get anything from the letter that suggested the sister was acting like a bridezilla. In fact the writer says wearing tuxes was one of her "few" requests. I can never understand why people reading these letters read all sorts of things into them that aren't there. If wanting your dad to walk you down the aisle makes you one then I guess I will be one too, I definitely want my dad to be with me at that special moment.
Comment: #41
Posted by: michelle
Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:16 PM
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Michelle-- I agree with you. Dad already stated it's too soon, so why people are saying what's taking so long is ridiculous. I can see him being uncomfortable walking her down the aisle or the father /daughter dance. He may be VERY uncomfortable being the center of attention. But being the man who loves his daughter refusing to wear a tux makes him a #1 jerk. He's simply looking at ways to postpone the inevitable. Wating 2 years IS NOT too long. Maybe they are saving for the down payment to move into their very own house. Maybe they are waiting to finish college. Maybe they are waiting til they have the certain savings that ALL financlal experts suggest engaged people have before marrying. Whatever the reason. Dad is a jerk for not at least wearing a tux.
Comment: #42
Posted by: Cathy
Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:58 PM
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LW1 I think we all know why the mother's dying wish was for Sam and Sis to get along. Sounds like Sis has probably been bossing him around all their lives. Sam will only have peace with Sis if he either capitulates to her every wish. He needs to say no nicely but firmly and change the locks and have either himself or a friend staying in the house when Sis wants to use it until she agrees to his terms. And make it clear it is chipping in on taxes, utilities, and upkeep, not "paying to stay there."
LW2 Plan the first dance with the groom or grandpa. Then offer Dad a choice of tux or a suit provided you pick the color of suit and tie. That way if he is in a suit, he will at least match in color with the wedding party, and if he is just one of these people who balk at being told anything, he will feel he has a choice. (Works for toddlers.) As to walking her down the aisle, someone needs to have a very firm talk with Dad that if he values his relationship with his daughter, he needs to at least do this for her. And an engagement is announce to all concerned that you intend to marry, not just to start planning the wedding. Many people who have circumstances that prevent marrying soon (school, military, etc.) get engaged to show their commitment. And an engagement ring is not necessary either; many people got engaged, and sometimes even married without rings just a few generations ago.
Comment: #43
Posted by: Elizabeth
Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:48 PM
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So many people are zeroing in on the 2 year engagement. I doubt its meaningful and am surprised it wasn't edited out. By me there are a few reception places that are in very high demand. Its not at all uncommon to have to go out 2 years for you to get availability around the time you want your wedding. Pair that with whether or not the church, band, florist, and whatever else is available, and I would think that 2 years is closer to the norm especially if the ceremony and reception are in separate locations. And on top of that all the other good suggestions about finishing school, thats when student loans will be paid off, postponing due to a relatives wedding, or whatever else. I just don't see a connection between not wearing a tux and a 2 year engagement.
Comment: #44
Posted by: TJ
Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:25 AM
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I would stay in a Florida vacation rental over a hotel any day of the week. http://www.vacationrentalhotspots.com does a good job listing available rentals.
Comment: #45
Posted by: greyp
Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:24 PM
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