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What's Behind Constant Accusations of Cheating?

Comment

Dear Annie: My husband and I have been together for five years. For the most part, we have a great relationship. The problem is, my husband is seven years older and had a few bad relationships before we got together. Because of this, he is always telling me I am a cheater and cannot be trusted.

Annie, I haven't done a single thing in my past or present to make him feel this way. It is a constant fight between us. I have suggested that maybe we should get counseling so we can work on this, but he hasn't been willing. Is there anything else I can do to make this annoying part of our relationship go away? — Irritated Wife

Dear Irritated: A person who constantly accuses the spouse of cheating when there is no cause is either cheating himself or too insecure to function in a healthy marriage. It is no way to live. First ask him to see his doctor and find out whether there is a medical reason for his behavior. Then stop "suggesting" and insist that your husband go with you for counseling. If he refuses, go on your own to decide whether this is something you can tolerate or alleviate.

Dear Annie: Why do stores think that having sales associates accost you in every aisle will make you enjoy shopping? A simple "Hello, how may I help you?" is all we need. Following us around and asking all sorts of questions is annoying. Knowing this will happen every time I enter the store makes me want to shop elsewhere.

People like to be acknowledged. They do not like to be hounded. If I want to wander around and look, I don't enjoy being bombarded by five salespeople asking me the same stuff over and over. A customer who wants help will ask for it. Otherwise, please leave us alone. Businesses should train their employees to treat people as valued customers, not idiots. — Toledo

Dear Toledo: You make a valid argument, but we have to say, for every person who doesn't want to be accosted, there are 10 who wish they could find a salesperson altogether.

If the store employees work on commission, it would explain why they try so hard to make a sale to every customer. It usually suffices to say, "No, thank you. I'm just looking." If not, feel free to register your complaint with the store manager and see whether it helps.

Dear Annie: Not long ago, you printed a letter from "Too Clean, Too Fearful," a woman with anxiety about highway travel. She did not want counseling. You suggested relaxation techniques but didn't specifically mention Tai Chi or Qigong classes, which are available at many community centers, fitness clubs, YMCAs and senior centers.

I teach both Tai Chi and Qigong and have been practicing for more than 24 years. It was part of my personal "quit smoking" program in 1988. Tai Chi is "relaxation in motion." It is a moving meditation that teaches one how to relax in action. It is the only exercise I know that does this. Qigong is a cousin of Tai Chi.

These exercises can be done in private or in a park, alone or with a friend. You can share the activity with your spouse to learn how to relax together. They can be learned while seated for those who have difficulty standing. They can be enjoyed for a lifetime and help develop the mind, along with better balance and coordination. Tai Chi and Qigong are dynamic, fun and relaxing, and yes, they relieve anxiety. — Caroline

Dear Caroline: Thanks for the additional suggestions. We hope our interested readers will check out these activities.

Dear Readers: Today is Flag Day and the 34th Annual Pause for the Pledge of Allegiance at 7 p.m. (Eastern time). For more information, log on to americanflagfoundation.org.

Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please email your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 737 3rd Street, Hermosa Beach, CA 90254. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.

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Comments

74 Comments | Post Comment
LW1 - Sorry, but the Annies are correct - if your spouse is accusing you of cheating over and over, it is HIM that is cheating. If it was me, the next time he brought it up I'd tell him to STFU about it, or talk to a divorce lawyer. Even better, you should hire a private investigator and get the goods on him. Why do people stay with such jerks? I'd rather be single for the rest of my life that put up with BS like this.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Barbara B.
Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:26 PM
LW1 There is an old saying: "A man who keeps looking under the bed has hid under a few himself" That said, a jealous husband NEVER gets over it! It has nothing to do with you. You could dress like a nun and never speak to anyone and it wouldn't be enough. Eventually it will kill any love you feel for him, but when you leave him he will be sure it is for another man.
LW 2 I was in a store where the clerks kept bugging me. Then I noticed the store manager snap his fingers at one of the clerks and point her to me. I walked up to the manager and told him that all these clerks bothering me were distracting me from shopping, and spending. That I needed to just look, unaided, and if one more clerk pestered me I would leave the store. Maybe you can seek out the manager too.
Comment: #2
Posted by: sarah stravinska
Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:35 PM
LW 1: It takes one to suspect one. This applies to cheating most assuredly. The accusations will only get worse. I was once in a situation where I was forbidden to occupy the same room as another man. Since I am in a man's profession it was very difficult to do. I was also forbidden to give my phone number to the rest of my work group. When I showed up for a meeting with the dictator in tow, I found out that it had been cancelled. If I could have given them my phone number I would have been notified ahead of time. I escaped soon after that.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Linda Dorfmont
Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:06 PM
LW1: Sorry to break it to you toots but he's probably cheating on you and just trying to deflect you and any questions you might have. Try marital counseling but also consult an attorney.

LW2: I worked in retail for many years and part if the reason sales associates are everywhere in certain stores is for loss prevention. People will be less likely to steal if there's someone down every aisle. Plus, there say too many times I've been shopping now that I might need help locating a size or to get a dressing room opened or maybe to get something on a high shelf and there's no employees to be found. I'd rather be asked every few minutes if I need help and am I finding everything ok than having to search high and low for help.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Notateacher
Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:15 PM
* * * * PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT * * * *

LW3 refers to the first letter on 17 September 2012, and was also discussed on 11 November 2012.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Miss Pasko
Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:22 PM
I don't know what stores the LW shops in, but I'm tired of having to walk up and down aisles trying to find somebody who can help me find something. I miss the old "may I help you?" days.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:34 PM
Re: the Annie's suggestion that a spouse who accuses his or her spouse of cheating, is very likely a cheat him or herself: It is one possible explanation of many. But the truth is that accusations like that can come from many sources, including: 1) having been cheated on; 2) being paranoid (a mental health condition); 3) having found misleading evidence; 4) being egged on an outside party who is trying to foment trouble; 5) basic insecurity and feelings of inferiority, 6) bullying behavior (accusing as a way of upsetting and controlling the other person), or 7) possibly, rarely, occasionally, the person making the accusation may have cheated herself in the past. But assuming that it's often or always the case is a bad habit of amateur/armchair psychologists. (A client of mine once told me angrily that he had learned that "all women are cheaters!" I asked him how he'd learned it; his answer was, "I found my wife cheating on me!") (i.e., he was engaging in lazy, associative thinking, like assuming that because one once saw someone in a green shirt kick a dog, that everyone wearing a green shirt is a dog-kicker).
Comment: #7
Posted by: sarah morrow
Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:40 PM
Re: sarah morrow
I agree that the popular assumption that because one spouse accuses the other of cheating means the accuser is cheating himself/herself isn't always the case. My ex constantly falsely accused me of cheating on him, and I know for a fact that neither one of us was cheating on the other -- we were together almost 24/7 and there was no time when either of us COULD be cheating. In my case, it was a control issue on his part and it escalated quickly to emotional abuse. I left before it turned physical. In any event, the LW's marriage is NOT a "great relationship", and she should not only get counseling, but see a divorce lawyer. Whatever the reason behind her husband's accusations, unless he works on getting over whatever his problem is, he will not change and it will only get worse.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Kitty
Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:53 AM
LW2 - That's one of the reasons that I've almost completely stopped "store shopping" and do almost all my shopping on line now. I've walked out of stores where I may have made a purchase when the sales person refused to leave me alone after I told them I didn't need any help. I don't like salespeople hovering over me as though they were afraid I was going to shoplift something, and rarely need help making a purchase. That said, I know that some people prefer to have a salesperson help them make decisions and the store managers should train their employees to recognize the difference in customers - leave the ones of us alone who wish to shop on our own and stay with the ones who need and want assistance.
Comment: #9
Posted by: Kitty
Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:38 AM
LW1: Obsessively dwelling on past bad relationships and past hurts. Cheating himself and going on the offensive with you to hide his own guilt. Some sort of psychological problem that needs professional help.

Those are pretty much the three main options as to what is causing your husband's behavior. If it is bothering you this much, you do need to put your foot down -- and show him you mean it. Insist on counseling or a trial separation, and see how he reacts. And if you aren't prepared to follow through on the threat, then frankly it doesn't bother you as much as you think, and you should resign yourself to getting used to it.

But for this to stop, you really need to make sure your husband crystal clear on the fact that this behavior is hurting you and your marriage. He won't have any incentive to change otherwise.


LW2: Indeed, sales people who work on commission or get bonuses for serving customers have incentive to be a little more determined in providing service. (You can often tell if a store does this kind of thing if when you check out, the cashier asks "did anyone help you today?" -- that's often the clue that they will take the salesperson's name and they'll get some kind of reward.)

I agree with the Annies, though -- usually "No thanks, just browsing" is sufficient. And there are plenty of times I've actually wanted a sales person and gotten frustrated by waiting around, too -- so sometimes there's no winning at the game.

But if you think the sales people are too aggressive, you could always contact the store manager and simply say that. "I understand they want to be helpful, but sometimes it makes me uncomfortable to be asked several times in just a few minutes."

LW3: Hopefully some people will find value in the suggestion.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Mike H
Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:43 AM
LW1 - The Annies are right. Either he's cheating or he has serious insecurity issues. My ex constantly accused me of cheating on him. It got to the point where I couldn't even like a new song because he would accuse me of liking that song because it reminded me of some guy. Really?? I don't know if he was physically cheating on me or not...but he definitly was cheating on me emotionally with his mother. Whole other story there. Anyway, if I were you, I'd tell him, "Counseling or divorce. Your choice." Believe me...if this doesn't get fixed...it will just escalate and get worse. If you have the money....you may want to hire a private investigator to see what he's up to.

LW2 - I used to work in retail while I was in college and we were more or less told to badger people. I didn't do that because I hate to be badgered. It was a small store so I would smile and say, "Hello. If you need any help, just let me know." When our big wig manager would be in (she came once every 3 months or so), she was up all of the customer's butts all the time. Several of them got frustrated and left. I even witnessed a few walk in, see her there, cringe and high tail it out of there. It's funny how our sales went down on days she was there.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Michelle
Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:45 AM
LW1: Lots of people have already said what I was going to say - your hubby's probably projecting and he's the one doing the cheating. If not, he sounds quite paranoid and will eventually try to control every aspect of your life. Counseling was a good suggestion, and if he won't go, you can go for yourself. You might need the help to decide how much of his problem you can tolerate and whether you made a wise decision to marry him.
Comment: #12
Posted by: TeaTreee
Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:50 AM
the Annie's suggestion that a spouse who accuses his or her spouse of cheating, is very likely a cheat him or herself: It is one possible explanation of many.
*************
And the Annies acknowledged, in the very same sentence, that this was ONE possibility, the other being that he was too insecure to function in a healthy marriage. I think it's early responders on BTL who have concluded it is a foregone conclusion that LW's husband is cheating himself.

For those who say a jealous man never gets over it, I do agree that it's unlikely he'll be able to stop this behavior without professional help -- he is too entrenched in his own thought patterns to be able to consider that his response is inappropriate. The one thing that MIGHT cause him to rethink, on his own, would be LW leaving him permanently -- but that's no guarantee, and besides, she's looking to save her relationship.

BUT... with professional help he can indeed unlearn those thought patterns and his kneejerk responses to them, and that can lead to a more peaceful relationship -- at first as he learns to control his behavior (giving LW more peace) and over time, to control his thoughts (giving HIM more peace).

I do suspect it's massive insecurity at work here rather than him cheating -- but he needs to understand that his insecurity is cheating BOTH of them out of a happy marriage, and killing her love for him as certainly as his exes' cheating killed his love for them.
Comment: #13
Posted by: hedgehog
Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:21 AM
LW1, did you even read your own words? "We have a GREAT relationship...it is a CONSTANT FIGHT between us...he is ALWAYS telling me I am a cheater and can not be trusted." Unless you are living in two parallel dimensions, both those statements can't true at the same time. If you are CONSTANTLY fighting and he is ALWAYS calling you a cheat, then when exactly is that GREAT relationship taking place?
.
The fact is, it isn't...you only wish you had a great relationship because you feel stupid for having married such a jerk, and so you're denying you've made a terrible mistake. In reality, your husband is sadistic, manipulative and wants you to be submissive in this relationship. He chose to accuse you of cheating because, unlike a shopping addiction, gambling, alcoholism, physical abuse or being a lousy housekeeper or cook, cheating is something that it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to disprove. Therefore you will always be walking on eggshells, groveling after him, begging him to trust you...and that's exactly where he wants you.
.
You say he is like this because of his past relationships, but sweetheart, I bet you if you went and talked to those women you would hear a very different story. You would learn that he has always been like this, that he falsely accused them of cheating too, and he continues to do it to this day, because that's what works for him--that's what gives him power and control over the women in his life. He won't change--the two of you will break up, and he will move on to his next victim, and tell her that sorry, he just can't trust her, and it's all YOUR fault, because you cheated on him throughout your five-year marriage.
.
The only question you need to answer now is just when is that break-up going to occur? Right now, or after you've suffered some more?
Comment: #14
Posted by: Jane
Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:44 AM
LW2, I hear you, but don't blame the staff. That is what management has told them to do. All sales staff are instructed on how to interact with customers by their management, and they are often given a script of things to say, questions to ask, and how to overcome your objections. These stores also use mystery shoppers and if they're caught now using the script or saying the things they've been taught, they're disciplined or fired. By all means complain to the manager, but put the blame where it belongs, on store policies.
.
And while we're on the subject, Dear Online Business, yes, I do like to get emails on a number of topics, and if you have interesting blogs and offers then I will subscribe to you. Send me one or two good, informative emails a week and I will open them, read them, and will likely even buy from you. Send me an email every day and I will instead get annoyed and stick you in the trash unopened, and wonder why you think I have that much time on my hands. Send me a few emails a day and I will unsubscribe from you. Send me a few emails every day telling me you're an expert on the best online marketing techniques, and I will not only unsubscribe from you, but tell all my friends how inept and stupid you are.
Comment: #15
Posted by: Jane
Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:56 AM
LW1--Your husband is an insecure little baby who is also a control freak. Instead of begging and pleading with him to help himself grow the hell up, why don't you try being more direct. Inform your husband point blank that not only have you never cheated on him, but you're sick and tired of hearing his accusations that you are a cheater. Tell him if he doesn't get himself into counseling immediately, you're making an appointment with a divorce lawyer. Then do it.

LW2--I can't agree with you more. I personally HATE going into GNC. Their salespeople will hound you to death with supplement suggestions. Then they want your personal information at the register to sign you up for their stupid club card; then they want your e-mail address. It goes on and on. I will only go into GNC when I absolutely need something that I cannot purchase elsewhere or online. And, I make it crystal clear to the salesperson that I know what I want and am uninterested in anything else. If they persist, I get loud.

LW3--If you seriously think Tai Chi or Qigong will straighten out that nut ball, then i think you've been sniffing lotus flowers for too long.
Comment: #16
Posted by: Chris
Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:25 AM
LW1 - to make that irritating part of your relationship go away,get a divorce. I think Jane nailed it. This is a control issue, and your husband is using these accusations to bully you and control you. Stand up for yourself. If you want to go to counseling, go to counseling no matter what he says or whether he goes with you or not. You "suggest" "maybe" counseling - he's got you afraid to stand up for what you want. If he wanted to make your marriage better, he would go. He thinks things are fine the way they are, and he even has you bullied into thinking his control issues are just a little thing when they're everything "a constant fight". Get out while you can, before his need for control escalates even more.
LW2 - online shopping is truly great, but maybe it's your choice of brick & mortar stores? That never happens to me except at hardware stores where I frequently need the help.
Comment: #17
Posted by: kai archie
Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:39 AM
Chris, darling, you seem so tense and agitated today. Are you sure a little Tai Chi won't help? Perhaps a massage to realign your chakras? I know, you haven't spent enough time meditating on your healing crystals lately, have you?

Or perhaps you could do what I do, and simply have a martini! Life's so much better after that first drink. I drink I can, I drink I can, I drink I can...
Comment: #18
Posted by: Mike H
Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:21 AM
When I was in high school, very young and naive, (we rode dinosaurs to the drive-in movies) I had a boyfriend who was constantly watching, accusing me of "flirting", had me completely off balance. It's a power thing of course, and once it starts, unless the victim of it wakes up and takes control, it only gets worse. He ended up running off with someone else, thank God, but I learned a valuable lesson and that dynamic has never been repeated. And I think it's safe to say that suspicious bullies and their victims find each other. I was insecure and he sensed that he could control me. Not any more of course - I learned from the first time.

Now, if I found myself in that situation, I'd be far more likely to laugh and say "You know what? You're right! While you were in the shower, I was in the back seat of your truck doing the meter reader. And when you go to sleep tonight, I've got a date with the garbage collector. Better not shut your eyes, bub - no telling what I might do!"

Of course it's all too ridiculous for words and LW1 needs to find her spine and get out of that situation - yesterday.

Oh Bobaloo - I'm still waiting for that apology..I guess fact checking has no place in your business...tick, tick, tick.....
Comment: #19
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:34 AM
"If you seriously think Tai Chi or Qigong will straighten out that nut ball, then i think you've been sniffing lotus flowers for too long."
LOL, good one Chris.
Mike, maybe Chris is a little tense this morning, but you have to admit that statement was funny.
Comment: #20
Posted by: GSDluv
Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:37 AM
I think everyone else nailed it on LW1 and on why on LW2. Give Tai Chi or Oigong chance. Might be great. I think about one of St. Mary's nuns who walks in heels everyday (for about 10 miles at least) and is about 80 who says be yes person.

I'll chime in on LW1. I was in one really bad relationship and it is about control. I didn't see it coming cause they chip away here and there, make what should be one time request into something for five times week and make demands over time. It doesn't happen over night. She (yes it was in relationship with another woman) would use her bad health on me as an excuse and what she thought how relationships should be like cause of course she was "expert". I didn't feel right leaving cause I felt like I was using her health as an excuse to get away. Over time I came to realize that was her weapon. She'll send me out in the snow late at night to go get her some special food usually rice krispie bars cause she couldn't stomach anything else when I should have been heading home to get ready to go to work the next day. Or Chinese food or Burger King. Or that I would spend every other night with her on the week day but she'll demand Saturday too even if was once month get together with my friends and didn't like that. She even accuse me once of cheating with ALL Of them. There is tons more about what she did but my only regret is not leaving sooner.
Comment: #21
Posted by: Kath
Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:03 AM
LW1: I suppose you can insist on counseling but it really sounds like a control issue. I'd tell him to cool it or you're getting a divorce and then get a divorce if he keeps it up. Life is too short to put up with stuff like this.

Re: Maggie Bobaloo did apologize in comment no. 62 in yesterday's BTL.
Comment: #22
Posted by: Anna K.
Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:22 AM
LW1 -
If this is a "constant fight between you", then the relationship is not "great for the most part". It's miserable for the most part.

It is NOT because he's had "a few bad relationships" before he met you that he is doing this. It's the other way around: all his other relationships went south because of his unfounded accusations, and the women got fed up and left when they realised nothing they could ever say or do made a difference. That's what he doesn't want you to find out in counselling, just as he doesn't want to stop what he's doing, because that's how he functions in a relationship: go on attack mode to keep the woman unbalanced. That's how his good relationships keep turning "bad".

What's behind constant accusations? A control trip (keeps the woman on her toes) or serial cheating of his own (God forbid you should do to him what he's doing to you) or both. I've seen both (my late ex and Mister Trinidad).

Ultimatum time - either he goes to counselling with you or you leave. But I'll warn you that this is basically only to assure yourself that you've done everything possible to save your marriage... because he won't go there in good faith. He'll go there with the intention of fixing YOU, because there isn't anything wrong with HIM, of course, everything in this is all your fault... Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.

Then you'll become the last "bad relationship" he can blame his unfounded accusations on for the next one.

P.S.: When a man has had nothing but "bad relationships" prior to you, that's a huge red flad, and the problem is usually with him.

P.P.S.: Do you have access to any of his priors? Talk to one or more of them if you can. You'll likely get confirmation that he was like that with all of them. I found out that my late ex was the exact same with his next as he had been with me when she talked to ME.

LW2 -
And I can think of a few places where I can't find sales help when I need it (and when I do find one of them, they know nothing of the product I'm looking for, don't even know it exists, and know nothing about what's on the shelves of the store they work for...).

Unfortunately, studies (and my personal experience) show that hard sell works. A lot of people do cave in. I've been dealing in sales for decades now. I tend to let people look around after acknowledging their presence and letting them know I'm there if they need me, in the official language of their choice. Ex LOML (whom I still work with) tends to push. He sells better.

There ought to be a happy middle. Complain to the store manager if you want, but keep in mind they salespeople wouldn't be allowed to do that in the first place if this wasn't accepted store policy. You MAY have to shop elsewhere - if they only get one complaint, they're not likely to change a policy that yields results.

P.S.: Worse yet are the ones who hound you because they're so afraid of being shoplifted. Again from sorry experience, I can tell you that the real shoplifters have enough practice that you don't see a thing and would never suspect them - real sleight of hands artists, they are, there's a lot of misused talent out there. The ones they hound are the innocent ones, which is a huge turn-off. There is a place where I only go when I have no choice because of that.

LW3 -
I can attest to the validity of Tai Chi. It'll settle you nicely, give you a sense of grounding and teach you to handle yourself in a physical attack situation all in one fell swoop. Served me in good stead in the Japanese-Bike-Girl-on-a-Sidewalk incident and I miss it a lot. Hm. When my season is at ebb tide and I have a little more time, I think I'll contact the best student of my (likely) late Master (now a Master on his own), and see if I can't work out a trade agreement with him.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Street sale weekend, guys. I'll read the comments when I get back tonight - if I have the energy.

Comment: #23
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:49 AM
Anna K, thanks for pointing it out to me. Bobaloo - I appreciate that. Let's hit "reset."
Comment: #24
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:08 AM
LW1 - I don't think he's cheating on the LW. I mean, it's possible he is, but if HE has been cheated on in the past, that's probably where his insecurities are coming from.

LW1, what your husband is saying when he's freaking out isn't that he thinks you're cheating. He wants reassurance that you're NOT cheating on him.

What you do next depends on how much you want to stay with him. Looking forward, if his behaviour doesn't improve or gets worse, do you see yourself being able to tolerate it considering that the rest of your relationship is "great"? Maintaining a relationship without trust is difficult. I would say that MANDATORY counseling is the first step toward trust. You have to just tell him: "Look, I have never done ANYTHING to cheat on you in any way, and being constantly accused is wearing on me, but I love you and want to make this work so you have to come to marriage counseling with me." Make the appointment, and go. If he refuses to go with you, well, he prefers to indulge in his own insecurities and paranoia than make steps to change himself, and the marriage probably will not work out.

My thoughts regarding this sort of thing is:
Is it sustainable? - For you, the answer is no. Constantly being accused and not trusts is NOT a sustainable relationship.
Is it malicious? - Probably not. I don't think your husband is cheating. He is paranoid and insecure because of past cheating.
Is it an otherwise good relationship? - By the sounds of it, yes, which means it's worth fighting for.

In this scenario, my advice is to give it one, good, solid "last try". If he makes some solid efforts, then that's a good sign. He may still have freakouts from time to time but no one is perfect and remember that he just wants reassurance. If these continue to decrease with time, I'd say your golden. If not, well, you tried and you'll at least know there's nothing more you could have done.

Do, however, be on the lookout for signs that his behaviour is much more deeply rooted - did his last girlfriends actually cheat on him, or did he imagine it? And COULD he indeed be cheating on you?
Comment: #25
Posted by: Zoe
Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:11 AM
I visit nude beaches and resorts frequently and people doing Tai Chi type exercises, yoga, or other similar personal routines is a very common sight. Might explain why many seem so much more relaxed.
Comment: #26
Posted by: Paul W
Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:31 AM
LW1- How sad for you to live with someone who is letting paranoia run his life. He doesn't believe you when you say you are not cheating, he doesn't respect you to be a faithful wife, and he doesn't love you, or he could not subject you to an interrogation every day. Why is it you stay? I think your 'good relationship' exists only in your imagination, because what you describe sounds like hell on earth. Every day, you come home, wondering what he will accuse you of today. This is no way to live. You deserve better. The only one that can make this better is YOU, because he clearly does not want to drop his delusions. He does not want to treat you better, because he likes to keep you off balance. If you stay, you are handing all of your power over to him, because he can suck the air out of the room, every day. He will not go to counseling, so that is proof that what he is doing is working for him. But it is NOT working for you, or you would not have written to the Annies. So, if you need help getting the resolve to divorce him, you go to counseling. When your spine is sufficiently strengthened, get your financial ducks in a row, then see a good lawyer. You do not want to spend the next 40 years of your life like this, do you?
Comment: #27
Posted by: Patty Bear
Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:44 AM
@GSDLuv, absolutely, Chris is often one of the wittier of us BTL, even if his comments are quite arch.

Still, though, one shouldn't knock lotus-sniffing until they've tried it!
Comment: #28
Posted by: Mike H
Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:55 AM
Re: @Jane #14
Bravo...excellent post! I completely agree with you regarding LW1's husband. She would be wise to take your advice.
Comment: #29
Posted by: EstherGreenwood
Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:35 AM
LW1: I agree with the spirit of most of what's been stated already. Except I caution people to suggest that, "If he's accusing me of cheating, he must be doing the same."

While that MAY be true, I agree with hedgehog – there could be many other scenarios at play here, including the Annie's suggestion of being too insecure to function in a healthy marriage. Or, as Lise says, the guy is a control freak who wants to keep his women in line, and if they don't, "pow, right in the kisser" – OK, not quite that far, but the accusations surely hit just as hard and brutally.

I just wonder, "if it's good for the most part" and all this is going on, why do you say, "It's good for the most part?" Be honest? Is it because the two of you have a comfortable standard of living? Is it because of his technique and how he touches you in bed? (As I've always said, sex can alter a person's perspective, turning a monster who should be told to get the hell out into a "cute widdle teddy bear comin' to pway wif me.") Is it something else?

BE HONEST and answer the question, and it should tell you whether you should maintain your relationship.
Comment: #30
Posted by: Bobaloo
Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:55 AM
The reason sales clerks rush to help customers in some stores, in an overly solicitous way, is because some of the "customers" who come into those stores are plants who are sent by the company to see how well clerks respond. If clerks don't immediately rush over to "help," the fake "customer" will report to the manager, who will fire them. So don't get mad at the clerk when he or she is oversolicitous. Get made at the company that sets those stupid policies.
Comment: #31
Posted by: Nowhereman
Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:40 AM
Re: Lise Brouillette

I agree with Lise. The LW should own herself as the next relationship he complains bitterly about and see a divorce attorney as soon as possible. The previous women in his life, if asked, would tell her they experienced the same ugly behavior and wonder how/why she has lasted so long. He doesn't really like or respect women. It isn't just the LW.

I'm impressed at the volume of letters where someone claims a great relationship with someone, followed by a "but" that includes abusive or dealbreaker behavior. How great can it be, really?
Comment: #32
Posted by: LouisaFinnell
Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:03 PM
LW2 - I've worked for several different retailers. While specific policies differ from store to store, they all train their employees to say hello, make direct eye contact, and stay visible to the shopper for one reason: loss prevention. Unfortunately, the honest consumers sometimes feel harassed or stalked, but usually all it takes is a "just looking" and the employees will give you your space. They don't want to upset you, they're just doing what they are trained to do.

Comment: #33
Posted by: Ryno's Wife
Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:09 PM
LW1: Yes, you have an awesome relationship with a man who constantly applies that you are a treacherous slut. Wow. That sounds wonderful. Where do I sign up?
Usually, I don't like to be so harsh when replying to the letter writers, because I do believe they read these things. But if LW1 is reading this, I hope she goes back up and reads that first sentence over again. This is not a good relationship and what he is doing is not normal.
He had bad relationships in the past? Alright, show of hands here among the BTL. Who here has NEVER, EVER been cheated on, strung along or otherwise been in a bad relationship. In fact, I am willing to bet that You (LW1) have at one point in your life felt that sting of betrayal. Everyone has. It's part of life. So your boyfriend using the whole 'I've been in bad relationships in the past' is a complete cop out. For whatever reason he's doing it, he's using this as an excuse to be a jerk. Maybe a misogynistic jerk if he's decided that 'this is just how women are'. And as another commenter pointed out, I bet his exes would have a different story.
I don't know if he's doing this because he's cheating on you. To me, it sounds like this is about control and emotional abuse. Honestly? That is pretty damned scary. I would be worried that his insecurities might lead to violence in the future. What is it going to be like when you have kids and build a life with this guy? Is he going to start suggesting that the kids aren't his, as well? I think you should first see a lawyer, then see a counselor so that you can understand why this is not a great relationship.
PS: Story time. My husband and I were friends with a couple where the husband was like this. He was on wife #3 and claimed that the first two had cheated on him. So somewhere he decided that all women were like this. He and my husband are computer guys. One day, he told my husband that he should install a Trojan on my computer that would allow him to see who I was talking to during the day. After all, he had one on his wife's computer, since women couldn't be trusted. My husband laughed at him. I told hubby he made a wise choice. I'd have tossed him out on his ass if I got wind of him doing something like that. Incidentally, both hubby and I have been cheated on in past relationships. My high school sweetheart cheated on my with his best friend's pregnant wife. My husband's ex-wife cheated on him with a few people. But we are grown ups who are capable of living in the here and now. LW1s husband needs to grow up, too.
Comment: #34
Posted by: Datura
Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:19 PM
Bobaloo The way you talk about sex makes it sound like you have never had sex. I know you don't date. They way you talk about sex and relationships sounds like everything you know about it is from watching movies or reading paperback romance novels. Not trying to be critical, there's nothing wrong with being a virgin in your 40's, but you don't have a realistic view of sex and relationships at all.
Comment: #35
Posted by: locake
Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:24 PM
Zoe, you make a good point about him being cheated on before and in bad relationships before but I don't think it gives him the green flag. My boyfriend was cheated on by his wife (now ex-wife). He has never accused me of cheating. I have a guy friend who has been one of my best friends for many years and he has never questioned me when I talk or hang out with this guy. He's met him and considers him a friend, too. They get along well. The husband in the letter needs to learn that not everyone is the same. I believe I was cheated on too (never got proof, just lots of rumors) but I know that not all people are bad.
Comment: #36
Posted by: Little Cookie
Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:33 PM
Re: Little Cookie

Of course, I don't mean to say everything's AOK if he's like this because he was cheated on. But if that is indeed the case, it gives LW1 something to work on, and because it's not malicious (as it would be if he was cheating on her and that's why he was so paranoid), she has a good reason to at least give it a try before beginning the arduous journey of separating a shared life and losing the man she loves and chose to marry not long ago.

No, most people don't get like this (at least not long term) after being cheated. Thankfully! I was cheated on by an ex, but I didn't really care about him so I wasn't bothered at all - enjoyed making him squirm a bit by saying things like "Oh I'm in the neighbourhood maybe I'll stop by!" or "hey remember that event you didn't feel like going to? John posted a video of it online, wanna watch it?" when I knew he was with her. But - some people are weaker in this way, and have more difficulty convincing the emotional side of their brain to let go of that betrayal even if their rational side is SCREAMING "SHE'S NOT CHEATING ON YOU, YOU'RE CRAZY!" She should not put up with it indefinitely but it may give her the perspective to work through it with him, or at least give it a shot.

I certainly don't agree with the people who suggest she dump him because he's like this right now. And I don't agree that their relationship can't be otherwise described as "great" because of this. No one is perfect and no relationship is perfect - I am sure everyone could list XYZ thing that their partner has done that would prompt someone else to go "omg dump him/her" but you really have to consider that everyone has a past, everyone has their hangups and issues. It sucks to dump that crap on your partner, but they may be the perfect person to help you through that.

Really, everyone, think over the worst habits you have, the pettiest crap you've picked a fight over, the worst things you spouse has done to you, the things they've said in anger or stupidity that you're too embarrassed to tell other people about. The fights / silent treatments / sex as a weapon... whatever stupid crap imperfect people do when they are mad or sad or exhausted and frustrated. Now imagine saying that to a bunch of strangers - you don't think a good chunk of them would tell you to dump your partner? Like, I make DH go to another room if he eats chips and get mad if he eats stuff out of a crinkly bag rather than putting it on a plate. If he sneezes too loud I get mad. I have a thing with sounds, OK? If he gets too touchy-feely and I get claustrophobic and he doesn't move away fast enough I lash out with my arms. I know it's ridiculous and that I sound crazy. And I won't tell you the crap he's pulled because it's not my place to. But seriously 99% of the time everything is awesome. Anyway - I lost track of my point, but you get what I mean.

Re: Louisa Finnell

This is exactly what I mean (in my previous paragraph). She says that their relationship is, for the "most part", great. Well, obviously it is not perfect on the whole, in fact needs a lot of work, and I'm sure there are some days she questions everything. But I have to assume that the 99% of the day, the part he's NOT saying "I can't trust you, everyone cheats", things are good. Maybe they have insightful conversations while they do chores together, maybe they both love the same type of movie, maybe they are saving up for a romantic getaway that they've both always wanted to go on, maybe they each love their in-laws and spend time as a large family together. Whatever, I don't know - but I think it's a bit shortsighted and frankly self-centered and self-aggrandizing to suggest to she should just dump him because we see a short letter detailing her biggest complaint.

I am not minimizing the issue and I do not think she should tolerate this (at least not without some demonstration that he's working on it). But who are we to tell an evidently mostly happy woman to divorce her husband of only a few years because a) he's a cheater or b) he's done all this to all his girlfriends or c) his neuroses go so deep they'll never get better or d) he's doing this on purpose as abuse. If any of those things is true then yes she should probably end the relationship but how can we presume to know that when there are alternative and equally plausible scenarios, and additionally different interpretations of how bad the problem truly is.

Re: locake

"Bobaloo The way you talk about sex makes it sound like you have never had sex."

Not going to lie, I contemplated asking Bobaloo if he still had his v-card after reading his last comment, too.
Comment: #37
Posted by: Zoe
Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:24 PM
Re: locake and Zoe

First, none of your business if I am still a virgin. That IS nobody's business, so don't ask again.

That's out of the way – the thing I will say about sex is, from all the news stories I've read – and many of these are real-life accounts of abusive relationships – sex can be a powerful tool. A couple's sex life can be awesome, almost nirvanic experience ... but then the rest of the relationship is sh****, to say the least. "Oh, we have a GREAT relationship," they might say ... but then the police is always called for domestic disturbances and so forth.

Back about 20 years ago, my native community had several very high-profile cases of children who were mercilessly beaten, often to DEATH, by raging men while the child's mother – and she was NEVER married to the son-of-a-bitch who killed the kid – stood by and did nothing to help her child. I've no proof, obviously, on why the woman stayed in the relationship, but back then, I wondered to myself if S-E-X had a major part of it. "Oh, I love his sex" and they don't even think of the child. How sad.

But since then, since hearing about those sadistic child killers who beat their girlfriends kids like nothing ... it's always had me wondering why the woman stayed. It's more than just the, "Oh, he's a great guy" bit, I've thought.

Have these cases from 20 years ago jaded my thinking? Perhaps. Even though I've never had proof that sex was the main – if only – reason these moms stayed with men who clearly had zero business around any child for even a few minutes, it's always had me wondering.

If – and THAT'S A VERY BIG IF, let me stress – sex is the thing that trumps all else in the LW's relationship, she needs some serious counseling to help her evaluate whether this guy is worth staying with. I agree there may be other factors that make her believe "this relationship is good except for (whatever)," like the good times with common friends, similar social groups and so forth, but I just can't help thinking sex is one of the key reasons why she wants this relationship to continue.

This is just my suspicions, and nothing more.
Comment: #38
Posted by: Bobaloo
Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:08 PM
One last point on LW1 – and this one is giving her husband the benefit of the doubt – yes, it could very well be he's had one or two bad experiences and wants to be absolutely sure she's not going to cheat on him. IF that's the case, then it is he who probably needed counseling before even meeting his current wife.

That said, the LW might want to contact ex-girlfriends (possible ex-spouses, if applicable) of her husband to see why they broke it off before.
Comment: #39
Posted by: Bobaloo
Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:13 PM
Bobaloo I NEVER asked you if you were a virgin, there is no need for you to respond at all. I simply stated my observations. I'm surprised you can't understand the written word any better since you are in the newspaper business.

Relationship based mainly on sex will never be healthy. There needs to be respect, caring, communication and other qualities. Without a solid foundation between 2 people even the best sex will fade in a couple years.
Comment: #40
Posted by: locake
Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:14 PM
Bobaloo
Zoe didn't ask you if you were a virgin either, no one did.
Comment: #41
Posted by: locake
Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:18 PM
LW1: The men, they are very bad, yes. All the time. You must break the marriage and go on the welfare. It is like free money! C'est magnifique.

I regret I am not here very much today. I sell macaroni necklaces at the market. I earn two dollar. Oo lala!
Comment: #42
Posted by: Lise Cassoulette
Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:27 PM
Re: locake (#40)

I understood what you and Zoe were asking -- either that or something you said led me to taking your statements that way.

It's like with everything you say: watch how you say it because even though you intended it one way it can be taken another way -- sometimes completely different than you intended it -- by someone else.

FWIW, I do agree with the comment about relationships based only on sex. Don't know if that's the case here in this "great relationship" -- "we have a great relationship 'cause we have great, hot sex every night" -- but it's sure possible. Indeed, if it is the LW is fooling herself.
Comment: #43
Posted by: Bobaloo
Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:48 PM
Re: Zoe

If I were to describe to you my husband's worst, most annoying behavior over the last 20+ years, you'd say "You call THAT a problem?" I know because I have gone to my friends in the past, after a fight with my darling husband that we both found traumatizing, and told them what happened and how upset we both are and that's what they say. You call THAT a fight? I guess we're doing okay. Or perhaps I just have extraordinarily wise friends.
Comment: #44
Posted by: LouisaFinnell
Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:58 PM
Re: louisafinnell

That's awesome :) but even couples with BIG fights and blowouts may be fine and/or have hope.

Re: Bobaloo

Mentally healthy women do not watch men beat their children to death because the sex is so amazing. And if they are, well, where can I find one of these guys???
Comment: #45
Posted by: Zoe
Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:09 PM
Re: Zoe (#45)

Hey, whoever said these women were "mentally healthy"?

While I agree, that is an insult if what you meant by it is that I didn't know that. OF COURSE THEY'RE NOT MENTALLY HEALTHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frankly, I sure *hope* you're being sarcastic whenyou say, "And if they are, well, where can I find one of these guys???" I really do.

Because make no mistake, Zoe -- THEIR "SEX" AIN'T WORTH IT AT ALL!!!! Not for the poor girlfriend's ruined self-esteem, not for the beatings and injuries to the woman (which also invariably happen), and certainly and fully not to all the dead children of the world who suffered because their mothers didn't give a f*****' rat's ass about their child screaming for help from "that bad man (who tried to ingrain my head into the glass of the coffee table!")
Comment: #46
Posted by: Bobaloo
Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:30 PM
People with violent marriages or marriages that are full of anger and fighting are definitely full of hope, because otherwise why would anyone stay in such a marriage? They may have hope that one of them will drop dead or stop being who they are, but it's probably false hope. I don't know why that would ever be enough. I suppose that angry people are as likely to marry as anyone else. Sounds like a tough haul though.
Comment: #47
Posted by: LouisaFinnell
Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:43 PM
Re: Barbara B. #1
"Why do people stay with such jerks?"
Because when you're young and inexperienced you believe the yurunda about his previous "bad relationships".

"I'd rather be single for the rest of my life that put up with BS like this."
Same here. I know better NOW! ;-D

@Sarah Stravinska #2
"You could dress like a nun and never speak to anyone and it wouldn't be enough."
My late ex.

"Eventually it will kill any love you feel for him, but when you leave him he will be sure it is for another man."
Mister Trinidad.

@Bobaloo #30
"It's good for the most part?"
Even if he was Mister Hot Shot in the sack, I can assure you that this "annoying part of the relationship will be like an apple blemish on the good part of it - eventually the entire apple is rotten. Eventually fast.

@Dature #34
"I don't know if he's doing this because he's cheating on you. To me, it sounds like this is about control and emotional abuse. "
It could be one or the other, and it could be both.

"Is he going to start suggesting that the kids aren't his, as well?"
Well, yes. Of course. They CAN'T be his, she's cheating all the time! :-D

@Zoe #25 & #37
You know, all the LW has in terms of evidence that the guy was cheated on is him saying it. And he's also saying the same about the LW, who is NOT cheating on him, so methinks this sure looks like the cheating in the previous "bad" relationships may, just may have been all in his head too...

Normal men who get cheated on in a normal way by normal women do what normal men do - they get over it and don't put all women in the same bag. This is not a case of skittiness after a bad experience, it's a case of an accusation being all in the man's head. It doesn't matter what any of them do, in his view, they're all on the make and nothing will make him change his mind.

"I certainly don't agree with the people who suggest she dump him because he's like this right now."
That's because you have never dealt with that kind of stuff day in and day out. You have no idea what it's like, because you imagine it remains within the confines of normal behaviour. None of the the posters who reported first-hand experience with this (including me) gave any gory details as to what kind of crap we had to go through on a day-to-day basis, but trust me, it's not normal behaviour. Nobody get this obsessed and irrational just because they were cheated on. I mean, hey - weren't we all.

Yes, "everyone has a past, everyone has their hangups and issues"... But there are some issues that are more bearable than others. This isn't one of them. This one is like a malignant tumour, taking over all the healthy cells, and turning them into more malignancy.

"I am not minimizing the issue"
No, I don't think you are but... Because you are very bright and articulate, I have to keep reminding myself how young you are, and how little I understood of people's motives at your age. From your post #25, it sure sounds like you would buy that "I've been cheated on" drivel too, just like she is.

She is not "mostly happy". Trust me and the rest of us who've been through this, nobody is happy being constantly hounded with accusations, which really do break down to being called a slut with no underwear. Every day. The reason she says they have a great relationship is because this is what she's trying to convince herself of, and she's groping at straws. Because she's still in love with him. But NOT happy. Been there, done that too!

Comment: #48
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:18 PM
NEVER married to the son-of-a-bitch who killed the kid – stood by and did nothing to help her child. I've no proof, obviously, on why the woman stayed in the relationship, but back then, I wondered to myself if S-E-X had a major part of it. "Oh, I love his sex" and they don't even think of the child.
**************

Bobaloo, as someone who's done a fair bit of research into domestic violence, and who interviewed a number of them, I would bet my life that sex certainly does NOT have a major part of it.

These are generally women who believe they have no other options than to stay. They have learned to keep their head down to try not to invoke his anger; they have generally been told they are worthless garbage long enough that they believe no one else will ever want them and that they certainly are too stupid to provide for their kids. Or he has threatened to kill her parents, her siblings, all her kids and her too if she tries to run. (And there ARE such cases in the news of people who have tried to take in abuse victims being shot or burned to death in their home along with the victim. She may have no faith in a court order that forbids contact, and with good reason.) And she may be self-medicating with alcohol or drugs, or he may be keeping her stoned to keep her compliant.

This is not to say she plays no part in the dynamic -- she may well have been the product of a violent home and abused there herself and gone from one abuser to another. They don't tend to start out abusive, but as "sweep you off your feet" romantics, moving very fast, and gradually isolate their victim from her family, and then play havoc with her ability to trust her own judgment, as they bounce between violence and extreme remorse. He may have knocked out her teeth and then cried real tears, swearing he hates himself and will never do it again.

Expecting a woman who's got no sense of self-worth, no sense that she has any kind of power whatsoever, to control an abuser in a rage -- or even to have had the ability to take her kid(s) and flee before he got home -- is unrealistic.

There are such cases, true, but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

I can guarantee you that during the attack on her child, sex with this guy is NOWHERE in her mind. She may be in shock, she may be too afraid to move, she may be in denial, she is probably hoping and praying desperately that if she just doesn't provoke him and stays still, his rage will burn out and he will stop before he inflicts serious damage on the kid.
Comment: #49
Posted by: hedgehog
Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:19 PM
@Bobaloo
Maybe you should do some research on domestic violence since apparently you are beyond ignorant on the subject. Your posts today border on absurd. I guarantee you that women (and men for that matter) do not stay in relationships where their children (and probably they themselves) are abused because the abusers are such adept lovers that they just can't bring themselves to give up all that hot sex! Apparently you think the personal qualities that enable the abuser mojo, sadism, narcissism and selfishness, rage and fear are the exact qualities that would make someone an attentive, skillful and attractive sex partner. I find it very hard to believe that a grown man would even hold these opinions and attitudes. Are you sure you're not really a 12-year-old boy?
Comment: #50
Posted by: EstherGreenwood
Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:35 PM
Re: EstherGreenwood
While I agree with you in principle, I remember a letter sent to one of the advice columnists many, years ago (probably Ann Landers), who stared listing all the appaling things her husband did to her, but ended by saying, "but the sex is great". I remember thinking, how can it possibly be with the crappy way he treats you? When it comes to intimacy, la... people can be r-e-a-l-l-y weird. But I agree that would be the exception.

Comment: #51
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:45 PM
Re: Bobaloo

If the women in question are mentally ill (abused etc), THAT is what is causing them to stick around while men beat their children. It's not the sex. Don't be ridiculous.

"Frankly, I sure *hope* you're being sarcastic whenyou say, "And if they are, well, where can I find one of these guys???" I really do."

Me? Sarcastic?? No, of course not. I really, seriously want to find a child murderer who is really good at sex. It is my life's ultimate goal.

Re: Lise B

"That's because you have never dealt with that kind of stuff day in and day out."

No. And you don't know that she is, either. Her own word she used is "irritated". I mean, it is obviously an issue for her, but she's not at breaking point. If it can be salvaged and can evolve into a trusting, happy relationship, then she should give it a try now. If it doesn't get better, she should break it off and be secure that she did all she could.

Look, a big part of this "give it one last try" is for HER sake, too, not just for his sake or even for their sake as a couple. Without resolving to make a final push, she may keep putting off making a decision till the next day,,, the day after that... etc. Morever, if she chooses to break it off, she will have no regrets. It will keep her resolve strong during the long, arduous period that is a divorce. She sounds young, is it not worth giving it a try - an ultimatum for counselling - before going through a divorce? It is a matter of months.

If she is in denial as you suggest, she has to go through the motions anyway. I stand by my comments today.

Buy the "I've been cheated on" drivel? Well, who knows. If I loved someone and saw they were having difficulty getting over past betrayals, I would hope I would not bail immediately.

You are correct that I have not encountered it, however I would also suggest that someone who HAS encountered it (and worse variations of that behaviour) may also be skewed advice. As the husband sees the spectre of betrayal in every shadow, so do you see the spectre of abusive men unworthy of love and support in every shadow. Of course, I am exaggerating here, but you see this sort of thing often where no one else BTL does, not necessarily because you have insight that we don't, but because you are looking for signs and therefore finding.

Kind of like when someone has a disease - if they see someone with mild symptoms in common with their disease, they might be very quick to suggest that this person has X disease and to take X medication. A person who had never encountered the disease in person might say "it's probably just a cold, but maybe see the doctor if it doesn't get better soon". The former is good advice if the person turns out to have the disease in question, but the latter is better universally applied when we don't have all the details.
Comment: #52
Posted by: Zoe
Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:57 PM
@Lise
You're right...there are some (a minority) who actually are turned on by this type of personality and abuse. Really haven't heard of many people who are still super attracted to someone after that person has physically abused their children though unless they are abusers and sociopaths themselves. I agree with hedgehog's account of why victims stay in these relationships.
Comment: #53
Posted by: EstherGreenwood
Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:02 PM
Re: Zoe
"Her own word she used is "irritated". I mean, it is obviously an issue for her, but she's not at breaking point. If it can be salvaged and can evolve into a trusting, happy relationship, then she should give it a try now."
She says "irritated" because that's all she's willing to acknowledge, because she knows damn well what it means if she faces the situation the way it is. Been there, done that.

She's not at breaking point yet because she doesn't see what's going on. It may need a couple of children in the picture and her motherly instinct to kick in for her to wake up, which is really sad. Been there, done that too.

And there is no way it can evolve into a trusting and happy relationship unless he's willing to give up either his philandering or his control trip or both. For him to do that would mean addressing the root cause, which is highly unlikely. You should refer yourself to the other posters who've been through this and read between the lines.

Yeah, sure, she should try, but if he refuses to go into counselling, nothing will change, and he if only goes in bad faith, lying to the counsellor and/or with the idea of fixing *her* (my late ex), nothing will change either. Been there, seen that.

Comment: #54
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:22 AM
Re: Zoe
"it not worth giving it a try - an ultimatum for counselling - before going through a divorce?"
And isn't that exactly what I suggested she do?

"I would also suggest that someone who HAS encountered it (and worse variations of that behaviour) may also be skewed advice. As the husband sees the spectre of betrayal in every shadow, so do you see the spectre of abusive men unworthy of love and support in every shadow."
If this is the way you would react yourself, speak for yourself. The next boyfiend I had after him was NOT like that, nor did I ever expect him to be.

"Of course, I am exaggerating here, but you see this sort of thing often where no one else BTL does, not necessarily because you have insight that we don't, but because you are looking for signs and therefore finding."
If I find the signs, it is because they are there, or are you accusing me of making them up?

And I'm sorry Zoe, but this case is so blatant that was hardly the "only one" to "see the signs".

"when we don't have all the details."
In this case, BTL should be closed and we should move on to other things, because we NEVER have "all" the details. Unless he moves in with the couple to see for himself, even the counsellor will never have ALL the details!

Look. These are the details we do have:
1. He's had a string of failed relationships.
2. He's accusing her of cheating all the time.
3. She'e not cheating, nor doing anything that might lead him to believe that she is.
4. They're fighting about this all the time.
5. He refuses to go to counselling.
6. She's getting fed up but still downplaying it.

How many more facts do you need? I stand by my post, especially since I did suggest she DEMAND he goes for counselling or else. Nothing will change without that, and even then.

Comment: #55
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:36 AM
Re: hedgehog (#49)

Believe me, I have heard many of those same things you outline, too. The "you're worthless" and "if you leave me, I'll kill you, the kids, your family," and so forth.

But sex is a major, major part of it. Trust me. It's part of his control of her, and as you say Esther -- his vices (sadism, narcissism and so forth) are what he manipulates to his advantage and make this loser creep "an attentive, skillful and attractive sex partner." (Particularly since some of them seem to be very attractive.) It's a sick and twisted game, but it's exactly those that the abuser cleverly is able to use to his advantage and take control of some poor sap. And also trust me when the law makes ZERO distinction between the killer of a child and the one who stood idly by and did nothing.

One last thing, Esther: Do not call me ignorant on this. I may never have done stories on the social effects of domestic abuse as hedgehog has done -- I'm more a hard-news and sports freak than the news-feature stories on topics such as domestic abuse that hedgehog has sometimes done -- but I have seen the police reports, so can only comment from that end. Additionally, I do remember the stories from years ago and how it formed my opinions.

FWIW -- The one murder case I did on a defendant accused of killing his wife involved his paranoia and schitzophrenia, and his belief there was a conspiracy by his family to take ownership of his farm; there were children involved but none of them were abused. Where I work now, the second week I was there I did do a sentencing hearing on a woman accused of killing a boyfriend she claimed was abusive (she was the last of three defendants tried and found guilty in said case), her trial was several weeks before I began, and her co-defendants were convicted in separate trials some time earlier. All other murder cases I've done have involved robbery.
Going back to the original letter, however, I think we're all in agreement that something's not right in the relationship and that her view of the marriage is clearly through rose-colored glasses. Whether it's the sex or the lifestyle or the friends or the other "good times" ... she needs to give herself a way out, before things go too far.
Comment: #56
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:37 AM
Re: Lise Brouillette

"Look. These are the details we do have:
1. He's had a string of failed relationships.
2. He's accusing her of cheating all the time.
3. She'e not cheating, nor doing anything that might lead him to believe that she is.
4. They're fighting about this all the time.
5. He refuses to go to counselling.
6. She's getting fed up but still downplaying it."

That, plus an addendum to No. 6 -- there is SOME REASON why she is downplaying it. Repeating myself from #55: "Whether it's the sex or the lifestyle or the friends or the other 'good times' ... " there IS some reason why she's seeing things the way she is. It's just GOT to go beyond psychology, his insults and his breaking her down her psyche and resolve to make her somehow believe that their relationship is "normal." Anyone who says it's only the latter (his using his meanness and ability to break down women into submission) is just not going far enough.
Comment: #57
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:42 AM
LW1: There is no way he didn't pull this crap prior to the wedding so the question has to be - what is wrong with you? Why would you marry such a damaged boy? Why are you still trying to save him? You need therapy to fix yourself - you are not his mother - fix yourself and move on.

Comment: #58
Posted by: Diana
Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:46 PM
@Bobaloo
It's finally dawned on me that what you must be thinking of are pedophiles, not batterers. Pedophiles DO often groom the mother and convince her that they are really into her so they can gain access to the children. I have often heard victims of pedophiles state that their mother chose not to believe they were being abused so she could maintain her relationship with the pedophile. Most of the moms who ignored the abuse and chose the abuser over their children will continue to deny the abuse ever happened until their dying day, but some, when later asked why they chose a child abuser over their child do say they felt they were in a great relationship (that they feel wanted, etc. - so indicates they did enjoy the sexual aspect of the relationship). They almost always say something like "I finally has a chance to be happy and "Susan" (child's name - fill in the blank) just wanted to ruin it for me." I think these women are the type that have VERY low self esteem and feel they need a man to validate them.
Comment: #59
Posted by: EstherGreenwood
Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:16 PM
Re: EstherGreenwood (#59)

"It's finally dawned on me that what you must be thinking of are pedophiles, not batterers. Pedophiles DO often groom the mother and convince her that they are really into her so they can gain access to the children. I have often heard victims of pedophiles state that their mother chose not to believe they were being abused so she could maintain her relationship with the pedophile. "

On the pedophile point, not exactly. None of the cases I was referring to -- where the man beat a child to death -- involved sex, just brutal, brutal violence. The man, beating a defenseless 3-year-old as though he were some thug, and the woman unable (or more likely, unwilling) to stop past beatings. Although what you do say is correct: The child's mother invariably believes that the man -- the very "person" who beat her own flesh and blood to death as though he were nothing -- is her ticket to eternal happiness. Perhaps she's been in bad relationships before, some of them abusive, and maybe she grew up that way (mom bouncing around from one thug to another drunken loser of a pedophile or physical beater), believing it to be normal.

Applying it to today -- nobody knows for sure, as she's not said as much. But the chances are good ... perhaps very good ... that the LW did come from a background where men haven't treated her right, that her childhood was full of mom trying to find the right boyfriend but always "going to the wrong bar" (there's that analogy again, where I'm referring to seeming to always find men that are drunks or abusers of some kind).

in both the child beater case and LW1's case, it could be the man in the given situation presented himself as Prince Charming. Then, once he got their woman into their respective webs, they become the jerk. The good times do continue -- the steady income, the friends, the going out a couple times a week, the community involvement, etc. -- but behind closed doors, it's always a struggle, such as what LW1 describes.

So I don't know how else I can put this ... I've stated my views on what specifically the LW should do and ask herself if everything that comes with the marriage is worth it. Same goes for the child-beating boyfriend - is it worth the safety of your own child ... or yours?
Comment: #60
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:44 PM
Re: EstherGreenwood #59
No, I don't think this is what Bobaloo is referring to, although his scenario, though possible and occasionally happening, is still very minoritarian imho. But there ARE men who become virtuosos in the bedroom, just so they can hook the woman that way. For some women, it can be a powerful hook, although I don't believe (imho) it can ever be the only only factor in anything.

I'm talking in general now, and not referring to any other argument in Bobaloo's posts for today - too sick and too tired to remember them.



Comment: #61
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:13 PM
Re: Lise Brouillette (#61)

I saw this for the first time last night and also wanted to respond, but by the time I did it was late, too.

I guess going back to my #57 post, where I added the "there must be some reason why she thinks the marriage is great even though it's not" comment, and I had suggested that she may be placing the benefits of staying with her husband (not just "great sex," but family/friends/activities/his job and the money it brings in/etc.) ahead of why the marriage is apparently not as good as she claims it is.

Without putting words into your mouth, I wonder if what you're (and several others) thinking is this – and please correct me if I'm wrong:

* There are none of those benefits (sex life sucks, she doesn't have that many friends (or mutual ones with her husband, anyway) or go out with him, his job only brings in an average income, etc.

* Perhaps he's mentally and verbally abused her to the point where he's convinced her that, "Hey, we've got a GREAT marriage ... and you'd better tell everyone that or it won't be good."

• When they *do* go out in public, they're the picture of a perfect marriage. At home, the illusion wears off ... fast.

• Now, she writes in, trying to hold her bravado but then admitting – trying not to make it readily obvious – that it's not as good as she claims it is and is crying out for help to get out of what she knows, deep down, is a bad marriage that is only getting worse.

Just wanted to see if that is what you and maybe others are thinking. Thanks!
Comment: #62
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:27 PM
Bobaloo, I'm a woman. I've got friends who are social workers; I've interviewed a number of domestic violence victims, including mothers of kids who've been abused.

The sex isn't a part of it. He's not controlling her through sex. He's controlling her through FEAR, either of violence or that she will be unable to provide (braces, clothing, education) for her kids. The guy who batters the kids tends to batter the wife as well, often for inconsequential stuff like overcooking a roast. You think that's much of a turn-on for women?

Maybe for a masochist.

I've yet to meet a woman who's stayed in a long-term relationship and overcome revulsion for her partner, much less one who beats her kid, because the sex was so good she looks the other way. I think that's kind of the nympho mindset popularized by women who star in porn, the whole "I'd do ANYTHING". It's a fairy tale that adult men like to believe, but it's not based in reality.
Comment: #63
Posted by: hedgehog
Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:29 PM
Re: hedgehog (#63)

You were probably typing your response as I was posting my own.

So then that begs the question, which I spell out for Lise at #62. I'll go ahead and post it to you, then, which is in essence, "Is it possible the LW's husband is controlling her through fear – fear that if she says anything but, 'Hey, we've got a GREAT relationship,' you're gonna get it"? And then, by her saying – essentially – "we've got a great relationship, except for (fill in the blank)," she's trying to hint that all is not well at all and is crying, looking for, begging for a way out?

Yes or no, nothing more. Thanks!

And yes, I'd bet many of these women are masochists. Either that or they're sick themselves.

(And no, I did not get my attitude about women staying in abusive relationships because of the sex through watching pornography or the movies, before anyone asks.)
Comment: #64
Posted by: Bobaloo
Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:19 PM
I know many women stay in dysfunctional situations because they are mentally beaten down by their abuser. However, I also know that some women allow their spouse to beat up their kid because they are thinking 'better that he beat the kid than me', and usually, the kid that gets beaten is the family 'goat'. Everyone gets to blame the family 'goat' for everything, because it is the sick dynamic of their family life. The sad truth is, some women do not bond with one child, and they take their anger and frustration out on that child. They allow others to be abusive to that child. The reasons why children get abused are many, and varied. I don't think we can fully discount Babaloos theory that some women stay with an abuser because his sex technique is great. I think it is more common that women are intimidated by their abuser, as many pointed out. But I also know that there is not a 'one size fits all' reason for abuse. And we simply never get enough information from a letter, so we are all just speculating. Also, since humans are infinitely varied, several reasons may apply to a situation.
Comment: #65
Posted by: Patty Bear
Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:45 AM
Re: Bobaloo
She definitely is trying to convince herself that they have a great relationship... maybe because of what you said, or because she's still in love with him and the thought of leaving is unbearable for now, or a combination of the two.

The women are not staying because they are masochists. Masochists enjoy being hurt. People who enjoy being hurt don't write in to an advice columnist about the inevitable "but" following the "we have a great relationship" statement.
Comment: #66
Posted by: Lise Brouillette
Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:59 PM
My husband had been gone for about 13 months, I contacted ophan spell and within a few minutes of speaking with him, I realized that ophan spell was the one person whom I could completely trust. I didn't expect the spell would work so fast. Within 48 hours, My husband was back in my life. After been paid thousands of dollars to other spell caster and got no results at all.. I want to express my warmest gratitude, ophan spell I'll never ever forget all the happiness you gave me. I will still use ophan spell again for further work in the future. You can contact him via his private mail ophanprayertemple@yahoo.com
Comment: #67
Posted by: sherill
Thu Aug 8, 2013 1:46 AM
I never believed in love spells or magic until I met this spell caster once when i went to see my friend in Indian this year on a business summit. I meant a man who's name is Dr ATILA he is really powerful and could help cast spells to bring back one's gone, lost, misbehaving lover and magic money spell or spell for a good job or luck spell .I'm now happy & a living testimony cos the man i had wanted to marry left me 5 weeks before our wedding and my life was upside down cos our relationship has been on for 3years. I really loved him, but his mother was against us and he had no good paying job. So when i met this spell caster, i told him what happened and explained the situation of things to him. At first i was undecided,skeptical and doubtful, but i just gave it a try. And in 7 days when i returned to Canada, my boyfriend (now husband) called me by himself and came to me apologizing that everything had been settled with his mom and family and he got a new job interview so we should get married. I didn't believe it cos the spell caster only asked for my name and my boyfriends name and all i wanted him to do. Well we are happily married now and we are expecting our little kid, and my husband also got the new job and our lives became much better. His email is atilahealinghome@yahoo.com
Comment: #68
Posted by: Stacey Bruno452
Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:16 AM
I saw a testimony of Nadezhda Vyacheslav on how she got that guy to love her as she did him.Though i don't know her, i believed her cos she said Mutton Osun a spell caster help her seen it happen. I didn't believe her cos she used a spell i believed her cos she made mention of a mutual spell caster i know of that is mutton Osun. I have also see a lot of testimony about his work on the the internet on blog pages and so on. I literally took a lip of faith to contact him and it turn out that it paid off. In my own case i didn't ask that him to make anyone fall in love with me or ask that my cheating wife comes back. This time i was at fault i messed up.Will really like to say it was an honest mistake or a few hours or days of weakness but then i will be insulting my wife and the love i feel for her. I was in full control of what i was doing i had the choice not to cheat but i still did. She didn't find out by herself i told hoping if i told her how sorry i am and how much i still love and want to be with her despite my betray she will forgive completely. It was the biggest mistake of my life maybe i should not have told her, i guess she would have still found out if she didn't catch me then i bet the other lady would have told her what was going on to destroy what me and my wife had. It was obvious my betray really hurt her i could she it in her eye and i was really sorry. That is why i wasn't so surprise when she asked that we go our separate ways. There and then i realized that i was following the part that ruined my life and my family. I literally lead four month of my life in misery. I have never felt like i needed her like i had felt begging was not an option nothing was an option cos she was gone. It was right about that time Mutton Osun came into the picture or when i asked that he help me get my wife to love as she did before. I was able to provide the items he asked that i get for the spell and send then down to him. Like Nadezhda Vyacheslav said "the spell does become effective at once that " she was right also cos just after i did what Mutton Osun asked me to do with what he sent me, it took 7 days before anything happened i even thought for a minute that i had met a fake spell caster but in the end i am happy with my wife again. We going to be renewing our vows on the 20th of September. I was on the edge of become a walking dead a woman with nothing to live for thank my star Mutton Osun helped. I will also leave his contact for those who thing he can help them { godsofosunx @ rocketmail. com }
Comment: #69
Posted by: Emma Russell
Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:55 PM

My name is Gina Sneed from Canada the husband i used to love with all my heart divorced me i feel like crying to tell anyone this. i tried everything but nothing came alright, luckily enough i was browsing on internet and i saw testimony of clients who talked about prof, i thought may be its also one of the scamming spell caster,but my heart insisted on it until i contacted him via email maduraitemple@yahoo.com i used his spell and it worked so nice, his spell stopped my husband from divorcing me Dr madurai has not only made my man to stop the divorce but also his spell made Sneed to love me the more:if you need help, call him at +2348132642680 his email maduraitemple@yahoo.com
Comment: #70
Posted by: Gina Sneed
Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:46 PM
I was IN A relationship with an arrogant self centered man for 4 year and had no idea of the kind of man i was living with. What am about to write now, is not a mistake its something am proud of cos i will never stand to see some irresponsible man rise my child. Until now i use to say i am the strongest woman on earth i mean no matter what a man throws at my face in a relationship i will always not let it affect me. Well i was wrong when you have a child with that man every thing he does that is not in your interest hurt you so bad that it feels like your heart is bleeding not cos of you something but mostly because of your child. The name i'm using here is a fictional name cos i don't want anybody talking about me. Mike and i,were together for four years and we had a child a son together but we weren't married. Our relationship was just as fun as it usually is in the dating stage i mean we went dates we text all night he call me on the phone just to tell me i love you. It was the best moment of my life aside from the birth of my son and he was right there with me in the labor room when i put to birth he never left my side i mean my life was a fairy tale with the happily ever after theme. When i look back now i ask myself why?Why did he go through all that trouble when really he didn't love me as he use to say. It was hard for me cos he went from being perfect to being ruthless he made sure i knew he was cheating on me with another b**ch and went i was tried to go away with my son, he threatening to take him away for me that i came with nothing and and also leaving with nothing . I wish i can put this in film to make it more clear for you guy i mean he made me pass through hell. And he was really going to take my son from me cos he was wealthy and the law was on his side cos i had nothing to offer my son i mean i work three job and hardly had time for myself he used that against and i was losing cos i could not even afford a lawyer. Everything was spinning out of hand. All i had with me was the hate and pain in my heart i would stay up all night crying my eyes out cos i had nothing to do. But like they say a desperate woman is a dangerous one. In my quest for help on how to make the scum bag stay away form me and my son i contacted a spell casted i found online i have seen a couple of good remark about him and some most highly recommended him as the best in spell casting. Like i say am proud of what i did if wanting to be with your son by all mean necessary is crazy then i am crazy to have contacted Mutton Osun the spell caster. It made me calm when mutton osun told me he can help me and that he was not going to charge me but how ever he asked me to get the materials we use for the spell and i also paid for the delivery of the parcel he sent me with instruction of how to make the spell effective. Just weeks after i did what he asked me Mike dropped all the case and left the country with his new b**ch i didn't really care cos i had my baby that is alright for me though i love him i don't want a monster as a husband or a father of my child so i let him go. I highly recommend you contact Mutton Osun for help if you need any on his email godsofosunx @ rocketmail. com
Comment: #71
Posted by: alexendria
Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:45 PM
Being attracted to the same sex in countries like USA,UK Canada is really easily as i have heard.There are still people there who don't like people like us but it not as bad as that of Russia cos here we are beaten jailed and sometimes even killed.You can't hold the hand of the one you care about in the public so as to avoid been harassed we can even set a place to me cos if we are caught we face jail time.Here in Russia we gay are prisoner in our own country.I am currently in a relation with my fiance and we had to leave Russia to be together.Before now his parent were against our relationship cos they had no idea he was gay we sneaked around knowing the risks if we were to be caught.When he finally got heart to tell him family the rejected him and asked he stops seeing me or they were going to turn him in and that scared him a lot his father is a very powerful man in Russia and he made it possible for him not to be able to live the country i mean as long as you have money in Russia anything goes.I was lucky they never got to meet me cos if they did i would have not been here right now writing this article that you are all reading.Probably i would have been in jail.Months passed and there was no way we could see each other cos they had him watched to make sure he is never get to meet me and also to know the person the was he was practicing this profane act with as they called it.They stripped him of all his right to the family assets and made him an outcast i could see he was suffering form the text he was sending me they made his life miserable and made him end our relationship.I knew he was confused and did know what to do to get his life back to make his family see him the way they use to.And i knew that his family were never going to accept his life style cos they are so anti gay.If they were to be a fund riser to fight gay practice in Russia his family will be the first to ask that they host it.I love him so much but he was scared of him family and they also had a grip on him.I know most person don't believe in what about to say but still if it wasn't for Mutton Osun a spell caster that i found on the internet i would not have been writing this.It happened maybe by a slim chance or fate that i was a blog were it happened that i read three distinct comment about how he help them with similar problem.I contacted him with an email address that was in the comment.I asked Mutton Osun to cast a spell to make my then boyfriend to make up his mind to run away from Russia with me to be together and also his family as in his father to make it possible for him to leave Russia with me and set a very comfortable life for us were we were going.And i know doing spells with someone you can't even see is outrageous but i promise you he makes you feel more at else when he calls and he really goes through with his promise cos he did with mine he was really helpful to him and kind.And like other people said he doesn't even charge you for what he is doing for you.I had to provide some list of materials that he asked that i get for my spell casting.I preferred that i sent the money down to him cos they were not easy to find and even when i found them it was so expensive but he could get them cheaply.He instructed me on how to make the spell work with great effect.It took 7 seven day and night to see it result.On the seventh night my boyfriend call me to tell me we could finally be together cos his father did agreed to do all i asked mutton osun to make him do i just knew at once it was Mutton Osun spell cos it what i asked for and now me and fiance are the happiest right now we can hold hand now without fear of being harassed or sent to jail for we are in love and we are very comfortable here.His father made sure everything was set before we even got here just like i asked it should be.Am going to also leave Mutton Osun email here just like others have done for contact purpose godsofosunx @ rocketmail. com
Comment: #72
Posted by: lyev Mahrk
Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:03 AM
Probably all this testimony you read about spell casting online are spam right?And yeah some are spam some think all of them are spam which is totally not bad and i also know some believe spell casting really works but have not been able to find the right one. Well i think i found the right spell caster Metodo. I know he is real not cos he helped me but because i was there in his temple i Have seen him and his temple and i tell you it can't get more really that what am writing now. I know you may want to know why and what lead me to contact a spell caster i am a south African woman here in south African as a matter of fact in Africa having a male child is like the most important thing in a marriage and it turned out that i am married to a very traditional man as in a he believes the male child carry the family name on and on but the females get married and change there name which is true. I were married for six years and i had no male child for him .Maybe friends and family filled his head with a lot of things like i don't have a male child for him and as a result he need to get a divorce and get another wife that can bear him a male child. I always thought the people that filled his head with this ideas where is family and friends the people that i smile and dine with. The very people who ought to have advice him rightly. I never found out if they where involved in wanting to ruin life and my marriage. Not because i could not find out but cost i didn't want to develop hatred for them cos i will always get to see them and it is not really healthy seeing the faces of people you hate. At that time, i mean before i knew my husband got himself a lover i was paranoid about him having a lover cos our lives changed a lot he starting coming home late he wouldn't touch me any more and even he started avoiding me in our home making up excuses to stay all day in his study room doing nothing and telling me his need something off to clear his head. We had fights all the time i brought up the matter if he was see someone else. Maybe he got tired of lying i don't know he finally asked for a divorce. A divorce my family saw him through his university and got him a got job i told myself and now he's asking me for a divorce cos i don't a male child yet for him. He was ready to let go of his three beautiful daughters he asked that i take them along. Maybe he was a real f**l and didn't know what he had and maybe he didn't deserve someone like me but one thing was crystal clear to me i was still in love with him and i wanted a complete family for my kid that and the fact that i raised him from the gutter i didn't care about any of his problem when i married him and i forgot to say my father never approved our marriage but still i jumped into it thinking we are going to have each other forever. Though we are still together now but its cos of the spell i had metodo cast on him to make him see how much he needs me in this life. When i contacted metodo he asked that i get the materials for the spell which i did and delivered the materials to him in person that is to say i came in contact with him. I was to return in to his temple in 7 seven day and within those seven day he gave me a blessed a red candle asking that i command and say whatever i wanted every night within those seven days which i did on the seventh day when i returned to metodo temple he gave a harmless powerful substance with instruction on how to use it. This might seem like fiction or lie or what ever you lucky reads may think but deep down you know it true you just looking for a way not to get involved. I ve got my husband back and my family life couldn't be better thanks to the spell though i don't have a male child for him at least his them lover bore him one. contact him with his email if you want his help metodoacamufortress@yahoo.com
Comment: #73
Posted by: BRUNELDANATO
Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:26 PM
My advice to any one who might be thinking of contacting a spell caster,is to contact Metodo i know he the only real spell caster i think still leaves his methods will speak and make you believe. I am not really that kind of person that disclose much about myself experience especially on the internet but today i am going to make an to exception I really never intended to say to anybody that i used a spell to get what i wanted in life not cos i am ashamed of it but cos some may never believe cos its seem like something that can never happen. All it take is to find the real and right spell caster. Am that kind of person that have always thought that marrying a rich man will set me free in financially as a matter of fact i have been married to to four different men all for money i guess after every divorce with every one of them i didn't as much as i expected even when there was no prenuptial agreement signed. But When i met my firth to be husband,i never expected i will fall for him so much i mean he was so charming cute and for the first time he made me feel safe like he will always be here for me not matter what happens. For the first time i was in love. Maybe i don't know what love is cos i never felt it for any one my ex husband the only detail i can give is that my heart literally beats fast when he was around me, anytime he ran his finger through my hair. I always knew my past will come to hurt me no matter what i do but i never gave it to much thought cos i never thought i will meet this kind of man. At the time i meant him ,it was not a while before the relationship became serious cos i bet he loved me also. We moved in together and our relationship just blosoomed. He was gentle with me always i mean my life was a fairy tale for a moment. But then again my past life that was to be left in the closet got out. I was so much in love to not tell him about my pasted life i just wanted to left him know like this was the person i use to be but cos of him i changed .He brought me to the light. I guess that was not the case he grew mad at me and thought i was going to do the same thing to him just like my exes. I don't know if it was that in the last 4 years i have been married four time to four different men cos of their bank statement that made him mad of was that i didn't tell him all this while. All the same after a while of not speaking with me he moved out. I thought he was going to call i just wanted to give him space i mean my friends suggested i did that but time few by with no call no text the only time he came back to our house was to pick his remaining things. The first man i have ever loved was walking out of my life just like a mist that comes and go i wanted him back to show him that he changed me to show him with him am a different person,He kept saying he would not want the same thing to happen to him just like my exes i believed he still loved he though he never said but that thought made me contact Metodo the spell caster for help. I saw positive comments about him and someone said she has actually seen, that is come in contact with him during the time he helped her. Was not really sure what to believe i just thought i was desperate i need help right away or i was going to lose my dream man for life. Like honestly i was not going to travel for over thirteen hours or so to look for metodo in were he leaves cos one i din't know anybody there and two my run my private spa so i had little all not time and it will be an expensive thing to do. I could not also get the materials he needed to cast the spell so i had to ask him to get them for me so i can give him the money to pay for them. Within the first seven week he sent me a some candle with some hand written don't really know what to call it but will say words to recite at night at the right hour. At that time within the seven days, Stephen started coming around all the time i mean i don't think it was coincidental cos really it wasn't. I believed what Metodo was doing was working. Just after those seven day i received a parcel with something he gave me instruction on how to use. This is no lie in anyway Stephen and i are back together now he is no slave to anything cos of the spell he is just the way he was before the spell only made him love me more and never talk or think about my past life. Not everybody will believe this more over its just something on the internet but my heart knows every of this word that formed this entire comment is true. Living Metodo contact for those who believes me and needs help metodoacamufortress @ yahoo. com
Comment: #74
Posted by: Nate Maclean
Sat Sep 6, 2014 8:04 PM
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Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar
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