Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW3: I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I hope you'll consider working on getting rid of that weight as well!

Paul: you DO sound like jerk.

LW2 - The Annies gave great advice.

LW3 - I used to be big-busted and I used deodorant in my cleavage, for that same reason. (I've since had a breast-reduction. To lessen pain, not odor.)

I have to agree with Claire Beatty. I don't know why so many people have such an issue with overweight people. I can understand why some people might want them to pay for larger seats on airplanes because they hate being squished, but other than that, how's it your business? There are plenty of skinny people with heart problems and high cholesterol, so if it's rising health care costs, don't blame only heavy people. If people find them unattractive, that's a matter of opinion. There are plenty of unattractive skinny people. I defend anyone's right to be 900 lbs. It's not my business. Just like I would hope that an alcoholic or a gambling addict would have a happy life and not suffer (whether their happiness comes from giving up the addiction or not) but I wouldn't preach to them, I would never say to a heavy person "just quit eating." Not my #$&% business.

To FAW, I agree with your post tonight (comment #3). I want to thank for your supportive words regarding my personal experience which I shared on 12/3's column. I wrote some additional feedback to you and PS there, if you care to have a look. Incidentally, I also had breast reduction surgery when I was in my 20's, for a medical reason: at that time I was a 50DD, my back and shoulders were literally collapsing under the weight, I could never find a bra that fit well or gave me sufficient support; back then I had good insurance through Bell Telephone Company in CA, plus my doctor could truthfully report to my insurance that surgery was medically necessary. I have never regretted that decision, unless you want to count the fact that I can no longer enter Dolly Parton look-a-like contests, LOL! Have a good week.

To PS, I thank you very much for your supportive comment to me yesterday, and I posted another reply to you and FAW there if you'd like to read it.

To Lise B., many thanks for your kind comments and positive encouragement about the rapes I endured when I was 3 1/2. I didn't post to you yesterday after those because I know you'll be "on the air" tonight sometime. Thanks also for your good wishes regarding my chronic back pain. I posted to you, following the experience you shared the night we were all caught up in the pro-life, pro-choice discussion, that I once again find you to be a very courageous woman with a strong sense of self-preservation and healthy-minded convictions. Take care, gal.

To Paul, I will not say you "sound like a jerk" because I don't care for Claire's phrasing, yet I will suggest that when you want to convey a message about a personal issue like weight, try to be positive so you will sound much less "insulting", IMO.

To ANYONE who has lost a child or a loved one to be remembered during the holidays, please accept my consolation. I hope that you will also find comfort in your happy memories.

To LW2: You should mention this issue to your husband's doctor. His behavior could be an early symptom of dementia or other health problem which is impacting his cognitive functioning. Don't, like "Annie," be too quick to write it off as a character flaw which can be solved with a 12-step program. He may need serious medical attention.

Re: Paul

You may not want to sound like a jerk, but you sure succeeded. You have absolutely no idea whether this person is trying to lose weight. Not to mention that whether yes or no, what's it to YOU?

Dear Annie
Thanks for printing Remembering our Lost children--we lost our beautiful 43 yr old son Jim Flagg to suicide Nov. 15, 2010 -- we will light a candle Dec. 12. coincidentally, on my birthday.
Thanks so much!
Carol and Tom Flagg
Bradenton FL

Just a possibility, but if the husband with the gambling addiction is on the drug mirapex, that would cause the gambling addiction.

Re: carolflagg

My sympathies for your loss. Friends and relatives of suicide victims often feel guilty. Do not let feeling of guilt overwhelm you - grief is bad enough.

Regarding the husband who is gambling their retirement money: Moving the money will do no good. They are a married couple and he would be able to access it no matter what the wife did. The wife needs to see an attorney to find out what needs to be done to safeguard their retirement. Sometimes things like gambling that have never been a problem before are early signs of dementia but I doubt the husband will agree to see a doctor. As hard as it might be, the wife needs to steel herself for some very rough times and make some hard choices. She might even have to initiate a petition of guardianship on her husband (I wouldn't recommend that she be the guardian, though) in order to get him the medical treatment that he needs. She needs to understand, though, that she may end up with no money at all unless she draws a hard line. She needs to look at it as her husband has an illness because most likely he does and it will continue to get worse.

I think the Annies posted LW1 a week early...This Sunday is only the 5th...So is it this Sunday or next?

Jen, I think it may take people a few days to plan an event like that or to plan to be at an event. A week's notice is just the right amount of time.

LW2, I don't think moving the money will do much good. I'm not a lawyer but I think as a married couple, the spouse would have access to shared assets. Counseling and medical intervention are the best routes in addressing the gambling problem. Problem gambling has a terrible effect on family life and it is important to get gambling addiction help from either Gamcare or Gamblers Anonymous. Compulsive gambling is a type of impulse-control disorder. Compulsive gamblers can't control the impulse to gamble, even when they know their gambling is hurting themselves or their loved ones. A lot of people start playing the lottery, bingo, the slots, etc., on a whim and then it just escalates due to the "hidden" impulse-control disorder. And, I doubt it has anything to do with any medication the man is on. I saw that news story about Mirapex awhile back and that particular case sounded like yet another instance where someone refused to take personal responsibility for their own actions and blamed something else instead. Coupled with a good lawyer, of course the "victim" got off Scot free.

@Paul I don't think your suggestion to LW3 made you sound like a jerk. Your words were non-confrontational and matter-of-fact. Getting rid of the belly would get rid of the odor. Sounds sensible to me.

Re: Chris

"Getting rid of the belly would get rid of the odor. Sounds sensible to me."
Yeah, like the song goes, that's nice if you can do it.

I'm not big anywhere except in the middle. I'm not HUGE, but I'm too big for what I like and I would LOVE getting rid of it and having a waist again. I eat healthy food and in sensible quatities, I don't snack in-between meals, I stay away from cheese and pasta, what I do for a living is physical work, on top of that I walk 20 miles a week and I'm a dancer. There are plenty more like me, like my daughter who lost 40 pounds and yet can't get rid of her belly fat. What else are we supposed to do, stop eating until we starve to death?

That person - we don't know if it's a man or a woman - posted nicely to suggest a solution that can be of use to others and what she got for her trouble is an attack.

@ Lise Brouillette

I genuinely don't get where you feel Paul attacked LW3!?! Honestly. Take his sentence word by word and there's simply no ill intent there. "I hope you'll consider working on getting rid of that weight as well!" It's just a comment and a hopeful one at that. Maybe because a MAN made the comment is why YOU feel attacked? I'm sorry you took this personally but it's not personal. You typically give great advice; while it can be difficult at times, let's try not superimpose our own insecurities onto the letter (comment) writers.

As for those suggesting the husband could still access the money if the wife were to move it into another account, that is not true. My girlfriend's husband did this because she "spent too much" (at garage sales--I think not!) and moved most of their money into a bank account in his name only and he refuses to give her permission to access any of it. She wasn't working when he did this, but she is now--which was his ultimate goal towards working towards a $2 million dollar retirement fund he's insisting they are required to have when they are ready to retire in another 25 years. Anyway, if the letter writer can get ahold of the money on her own, she should be able to move it into an account that is only in her name without worrying what he says. Of course, that can lead to more trouble for her, so I might suggest she document the money loss on the lottery tickets and speak with a lawyer or financial planner who can help her safeguard "their" retirement, as he's not doing a good job of it at the moment.
A trip to the doctor is also definitely in order!

We have a loss of our son David $ 4 years ago still feel like yesterday. This will be our 4th year of hosting lighting candles for our beautiful precious children who we miss so much. People say doesnt it get easier no it does not it does get different. The hardest are the holidays his birthday, Mom's Day and my birthday. I love you very much David. Thank you Compassionate Friends for all the great hard work you do to keep this going thank you for being there for me when I have needed someone.
www.money-burge.com

Re: Chris

I have no reason to take this personally aas I'm not big enough to attract the hostility often directed at the obese. And I wouldn't care if a man or woman said it - I may not be obese myself, but I do know people who are and I know from having witnessed it that both men and women will show hostility. In fact, the women I've seen were a lot more vicious than the men so, no, it's not because he is a man.

I felt it was an attack because he took for granted that the poster isn't trying to get rid of the belly. I know from sorry experience that having one doesn't mean you haven't tried to get rid of it, which is why I used myself as an example, not because I was taking it personally.

Re: Carmela

The loss of a child always feels senseless even when it doesn't happen abruptly. When it happens abruptly, it not only feels senseless, it knocks you off you feet. The loss doesn't lessen with time, even if the actual grief gets less acute. Doing something in the child's name sometimes helps making sense of it.

I always find it interesting when others comment on Bigger people and say they must be unhealthy. I am bigger and recently went to the doctor to see if I recovered from a Miscarriage of twins back in July. I wanted to be sure I was healthy enough for a third child. Despite my weight my Doctor said I am perfectly healthy and Healthier then most women my Age (I am 27) who are the perfect weight. She said there are some people who are actually healthier when they are a bit bigger and I am one of them (When I was a child I was thin and had a ton of Health issues). She also said it isn't common but recent studies have confirmed it. BTW I exercise and eat right so that is not an issue

Personally if anyone comments on my weight I very politely tell then My medical tests show O am perfectly healthy and I intend to stay that way

A "vineragy odor" may be in indication of a systemic yeast infection. This is something else to discuss with a doctor.

Re: Paul & Lisa B's posts #6 & #18 -
Lisa, you are usually one of the posters with whom I agree the most, but not today. You implied in post #6, and then expressly stated in post#18, that Paul was assuming the LW was not trying to lose weight. That's not true. What Paul said was he HOPED the person was at least considering working on losing weight.
Recently someone said to me, "I hope you have a nice holiday." That didn't mean they thought I wasn't going to have a nice holiday and needed me to suggest it. It only meant they hoped that was what I was already planning to do. Same with Paul's post.
And I'm sorry to be picking on Lisa B, who as I said is one of my favorite posters. Lots of other people today jumped on Paul's case, and the same unfair reasoning may have been behind their attacks as behind Lisa B's.
If you need an example of a post that is REALLY not so generous toward overweight people (unlike Paul's which was very mild), here you go...
Being obese IS unhealthy. There IS a difference between:
- being a bit overweight yet still healthy, as LIsa B's post #14 describes (sounds like she looks fine and does not need to lose weight), and
- being so obese that fat hangs in folds that keep one's skin from breathing and allow odor-causing organisms to breed. If that very fact (skin can't breathe and odor-causing organisms breathing in the folds) doesn't strike you as unhealthy, then it's hard for me to give much credence to anything else you say about what is healthy.
I've been skinny and I've been fat. In fact, right now I am fat, but losing again. And yes, I am healthier than most people my age, because I have many healthy habits. But that doesn't mean losing the weight wouldn't make me even healthier and improve my quality of life. I know because I've lost the weight before and it's shocking how much better you feel than when you were fat, even though you thought you were a "healthy" fat person. And no, I didn't do any fad diets - I just cut back on eating crap and exercised more. The thing is, you have to cut back A LOT, and exercise A LOT. People act like that's so outrageous. I myself have fallen into the trap of thinking that once I lost the weight, I should be able to go back to the eating habits and exercise level that got me fat in the first place. Like our eating habits are some sort of *entitlement*. The problem is that we modern humans get ideas in our heads of how much is a normal amount of food, and how much is a reasonable amount of exercise. Restaurant portions are insane. Our lifestyles are set up to drive everywhere and work sedentary jobs, etc.
Instead of bemoaning how hard it is, what helps me is, to think how great it is that my body is apparently built for action. It's built for lots of exercise, so why don't I give it what it needs. Instead of bemoaning that I have to work out for hours to stay healthy, I take pride & enjoyment in those hours of exercise. The reason I'm fat now is I went through some stressful months when I could not get my precious exercise. My weight gain was just the most obvious sign of how unhealthy that stressful period was. If I'd denied that the weight gain was unhealthy, I might have taken longer to acknowledge the other unhealthy effects of that period, like my sleep habits, moods, etc. all suffering as well. Now that I am back on track with exercising, I am feeling happier already.
Here's another way to look at it: I also have lousy eyesight, just had to shell out hundreds of bucks for new glasses. Some other people don't have to wear glasses, but doesn't mean I am going to refuse to wear glasses and demand others agree my eyesight is just as good as theirs. Yeah, it seems unfair, but that's the health hand I was dealt. I have to expend more time/money to have healthy eyesight. And I have to work harder to reach a healthy weight. There are worse health problems I could have than just having to work hard to stay at a healthy weight.
I'm glad to hear folks out there are trying to assert some self-esteem about their big body types. But instead of basing that self-esteem on beieving that your weight actually is healthy/attractive, I recommend basing your self-esteem on the idea that, your body's tendency to store more fat than others is because your body type is designed for action. Maybe your ancestors were hardy pioneers that trekked miles into the wilderness on meager rations and built homesteads with brute force. Maybe they were tough soldiers who endured long campaigns and fierce battles.
So follow in their footsteps - stop eating unnatural amounts of unnatural food, and give your body the exercise it craves. Don't listen to those infomercials that brag about how few minutes a day you have to exercise to lose weight. That's still saying exercise is a chore. Instead, try viewing it as a treat -you are probably cut out for big physical accomplishments, if you gave your body the chance. Shift your lifestyle to something more active. I walk my dogs more (so they are happier too!), I have found ways to walk or bicycle for many errands I used to drive to. And when I try to think of something to do for fun, I try to think more of things that involve exercise instead of sitting and/or eating.
If you are fat like me, complaining about other people's attitudes toward fat is just hitting your head against the wall. The only attitude you can change is your own. Of course I realize that means everything I've said here may not change any of your attitudes. But hopefully I've given a glimpse of another outlook on the issue...

LW1 - I will be marking my calendar this year for sure. A friend lost an infant child last year due to an accident, and I still can't get the image of that tiny casket out of my mind. It's still hard for the family. Lighting a candle is just the tiniest bit least I can do to honor the baby.

LW2 - The Annies have good advice, as does Bear. Sometimes biochemical or neurological issues can impair judgment, as can some medications, to an extreme. Been there and done that, and it's both scary and embarrassing. So bringing this up to the family doctor is a good idea, if for nothing else than to rule that part out.

LW3 - Been there and done that too, LOL. I became rather busty while pregnant with my youngest - I never knew anyone could sweat under their boobs until then. No odor, but the perspiration was annoying.

Paul - I'm in the camp that says maybe you didn't mean to sound like a jerk but you still did. You made a lot of assumptions, including whether this person's obese at all. How do you know his or her belly isn't large because it's excess skin from weight loss? Even if it is from obesity, sometimes that occurs due to medical conditions or genetics (as was pointed out in a recent column), so either way it's not your business to comment or judge.

Jean - I am glad to be of support to you. We survivors have to stick together and help each other with our healing and thriving as much as we can, where we can. Have a great day!

PS, right on, girl. We ARE survivors. We have endured severe trauma, yet we are alive, so we can feel lucky or even blessed for that reason alone. Sometimes our PTSD symptoms kick in and make our lives difficult and more frightening to handle, yet with our network of supportive friends, as I now consider you, FAW and Lise B. to be part of, we can move forward with strength and reach out to others since we have valuable information and guidance to share with them. Raise your next glass or soda can with me and say "Here's to sticking together!" Have a great day too.

Re: cassandr

Okay, okay, let's *hope* this comes out okay... perhaps I myself assumed. Ten lashes with the wet noodle. Actually, PS said it much better than me in the last paragraph of his post #23.

It is a fact that I do look fine - except for the belly. And it *is* hanging down in folds although it's not that big, precisely because of the problem PS pointed out, that is, overextended flesh due to pregnancy scars, added to the effects of my ripe old age. Some people suffer the same problem after a severe and rapid weight loss. In Canada, the surgical removal of such excess skin is covered by Medicare precisely because it is unygienic and a breeding ground for infections. I'm sure it's covered my most insurance plans in the US, problem is, a lot of people don't have insurance; so I expect there will be people stuck with folds of skin they can't get rid of through diet because they're flesh, not fat. Unsmelly Me at least offered a way to deal so that people with that problem don't stink on top of everything else - these folds are not just unsightly, they're uncomfortable, especially in the heat.

There isn't all that much actual fat in my midriff, so I don't much how much of it I would lose if I starved myself enough to really go down in weight. What I really need is a tummy-tuck, but since my problem is not due to severe weight loss it is therefore considered aestetic and not covered. We're talking several thousands even here in Canada where it's fraction of the cost in the US. I don't have that kind of money and it doesn't look like I'll have it any time soon.

In between my line of work, the walking and the dancing, I already exercice plenty and my eating is neither excessive nor unhealthy - I don't have much of a sweet tooth and no craving for junk food. At the restaurant, I have absolutely no problem asking for an uneaten portion to be bagged so I can eat it at home later - Two meals for the same price and you get to not pig out for nothing - it's an approach I strongly recommend.

Re: cassandr

You know, I'm also pretty down in the dumps at the moment - It's 20 days to Christmas and the man I care about is being an asshole. Perhaps it makes me overreact a bit...

@Lise Brouillette
Several here have noted how helpful your posts have been. You seem to have quite a following. Even if you are "down in the dumps" as you say, it would seem that you have a fan club of sorts. People read your posts. The power of words...keep the posts coming. Cheers!

re: Kitty O'Shea

Thanks, Kitty, I'll try... sigh.

Re: Lise Brouillette--Have you seen the "poo chi" sketch on youtube? I don't know if it will let me do a link, but go to youtube and put poo chi in. I've watched it several times and I still can't stop laughing.

I've never been able to get back to my pre-pregnancy size, even though I've been the weight a few times, because of a C-section. My doctor didn't ask, just did the vertical, so all my muscles were cut through. I remember thinking I was fat when I was in my 20s because I had a 25-inch (not 24) waist. <sigh> I'd be happy with 30 now.

My point was that Paul's comment wasn't helpful but was instead condescending. Paul may be a nice man. I'm not saying he's a jerk. I'm just saying that his comment is not helpful.

There's no one in any 1st world country who doesn't know that it's unhealthy to be overweight. Even very uneducated people have been told countless times that it's unhealthy and unattractive to be obese. Yet, the US has the heaviest people in the world, and the UK is second.

It shouldn't matter to the argument, but I'm not obese. I am overweight, but I also just had a baby and am still (successfully) working toward my pre-baby weight. But that shouldn't matter here. Whether I'm skinny and work hard at it or have a good metabolism or all that doesn't matter. My point is that heavy people know they're heavy. People in other unhealthy lifestyles may or may not believe that they are, let's say alcoholics, or wife beaters or, you name it. Many alcoholics say "I don't have a drinking problem." But obese people know they are obese. There are mirrors, scales, doctors, rude people who tell them they're not normal, and seats on amusement park rides or on the bus that are too small for them. They know it. They don't need some clever person to say "hey, maybe you should lose weight."

If an obese person has a great metabolism, but still hates exercise, wants to live on donuts and sit around and play video games, that's their business. Hopefully, they don't have kids or close family who they are cheating out of their presence because they will likely die young. But talking to them like they're stupid, saying "hey, consider losing weight" as if it's such a novel idea that they have never thought of before, is condescending, disrespectful to their intelligence, and mean.

For all we know, LW3 has already lost 100 pounds and is on a diet. It just reminds me of when I was in college and had to drive my parents' beater of a car to and from my summer internship. It would overheat and on 98F days, I had to run the heater on high to draw the heat out of the engine compartment in order to keep it from overheating. Very often, it would break down in the middle of a busy intersection. And someone in a car nearby with a open window would scream at me "Get a new car!" No #$&%. I never thought of that. I could buy a Ferrari because I have so much money in the bank, but I'd much rather drive this old Buick. Thanks for telling me!

It's something you know you can do, but it's not an overnight thing. You have to work hard at it. I have several cars now and they all run much better than that Buick. But I don't know anything now that I didn't know then with respect to how to get my hands on a car that runs well and doesn't break down in the middle of intersections. I didn't need a bunch of smart-a$$es telling me to get a new car. Or in this case "I hope you'll consider working on getting rid of that" overheating Buick.

Re: FAW

Yeah, isn't that infuriating? I have found that I can't about my money problems to family member, because they'll start piping in, "Why don't you sell your stuff?" Buying, renovating period jewellery and selling it is what I do, so of course I'm always "selling my stuff". What they really mean is for me to sell my personal stuff, mind you, God forbid I should own anything, but I'll not start ranting on that again!

Re: Joannakathryn

Thanks, I just watched it, heh heh heh HEE HEE HEE HAW HAW HAW all I had to do was Google Poo-chi and voila, there is was. THAT was funny, thanks, it helps a bit...

@FAW - well stated. I think that quite often people focus on what they perceive as flaws in others because they don't want to focus on their own flaws. Paul, I have no idea how you look, but let's say that you are thin but you have a big nose. How would you like it if someone walked up to you and said, "you know, Paul you could look really handsome of you got a nose job". That is not an unrealistic solution since plastic surgery is very accessible these days and a lot of people are doing it. In fact, assuming that you can afford it- getting a nose job would be a lot easier for you than losing a lot of weight would be for an obese person.
In addition, the person that you think should lose weight may be very satisfied with his or her own appearance. So what is it to you? If you don't like the way that person looks than re-direct your attention to your own big nose or whatever it is that you could improve on your person or in your character and let that person focus on his or her own thing.

Lise and sharnee, thank you, exactly! Lise, in my family, it's fashion. My mom's side of the family is obsessed with stiletto heels and whatever is the most expensive brand of clothing and purses. They define themselves by how they dress, even to go to the grocery store. Unless it's a fancy occasion, if I'm just going to the store, or hanging out with friends, I prefer to wear regular old blue jeans and comfortable shoes. And I don't carry a purse because my ID and money fit just fine in one of my pockets. Nearly every family member on that side of the family says something to me each time they see me. The latest was my cousin freaking out because I was buying Converse high tops. She couldn't believe they made those anymore and went off on me about how I should buy some stilettos. It's not that I don't have some nice, fancy shoes for special outings. But I am fully aware that I can wear clothes that require ironing and carry $2000 labels when I'm just taking the kids to the grocery store. I know that. I've been told that countless times. I just don't want to!! Not everyone in the world needs to conform or have the same priorities.

Lise, I can relate. Years ago, I was invited to a wedding by a friend across the country. I was in grad school at the time and didn't have much money. I told her that I didn't think I could afford to go. She told me to sell my CD collection in order to fund the trip! For a wedding, of one friend, to whom I wasn't even that close, I was supposed to sell all of my CDs that I'd been collecting and listening to for over a decade. I'd skipped many meals in order to be able to afford many of them (yes, I understand, the priorities weren't necessarily in order, but it did keep me thin, bringing us back to our original discussion). I chose to keep the CDs and skip the wedding.

Re: FAW

I have a 5000 vynil record collection and, even if there was a place where to sell them - some of them are pretty scratched up, I listen to the music, not the scratches - a lot of them are totally wortless except to me. You wouldn't believe the number of people who have a problem with my collection, even though they have no problem when the same quantity is in a man's living-room... Anyway. I believe that SOME people have a problem with women occupying space on their own.

People who keep trying to convert everyone else to their way of life are basically insecure - when you're comfortable in your own skin, the difference in others is an enrichment and a wonder. But when people are not comfortable with themselves, then they perceive anybody different as an attack on what they are.

How many wars have been started that way...

Lise, I wonder if people assume that it's common for a man to collect cars, tools, records and toys like that. And they excuse it if they do. And common for a woman to collect shoes, jewelry, etc. If one deviates from that, then they try to tell that person that they seriously must not be that into the things they have. One Christmas season (I know, I'm not religious, but we still celebrate with the sparkly lights, tree and gifts) my husband asked me what I wanted and he got it for me: a subwoofer and new speakers for my sportscar. My coworkers were shocked that I wasn't disappointed that I didn't get jewelry. And, no, those things weren't for him, because he's afraid to drive my car because if he parks it somewhere and someone breathes on it wrong, I'd have a coronary, ha.

My one cousin, the one who was putting me down for buying new high tops instead of stilettos does it because she's unbelievably insecure. She thinks that if she's rude to people first, then she gets them first, puts them in their place, and they will have to kiss up to her. She's always put me down, ever since we were kids. But I generally ignore her. I could list the many things I have (degrees, good husband, children, better looks, friends) that she doesn't, and rub them in her face, but then I wouldn't think highly of myself for doing so. I just keep conversations superficial with her and avoid her.

I don't have anything against overweight individuals, however, one reason I quit volunteering as an EMT in my small town years ago was because I was afraid of permanently injuring my back trying to rescue someone who was too heavy for me to lift. I'm not trying to sound selfish here. My point is that most people seem to think that if someone is heavy they're not hurting anyone but themselves. They never stop to think about the person that may one day have to hoist them into an ambulance if they're involved in an accident. Whether that's a vehicle accident or an accident in their workplace or home if they are incapacitated someone else is going to be responsible for getting them to the hospital.

Chris and cassandr, you two seemed to truly understand what I meant by my original post. I think some of the other people on here might have read into it a little too deeply. I understand that it's easy to do that sometimes, and I know that all of us have done it at one point or another.

All I meant is that I considered LW3's solution to be a TEMPORARY one until he/she can lose the weight. I think it's a great idea for now, but he/she needs to work on the weight issue as part of the long-term plan. The deodorant is a short-term goal; weight loss is a long-term goal. Hiding the smell for the rest of his/her life doesn't sound like the best thing to do.

Anyway, I hope this clears things up!

Paul - I did not miss the spirit of your original post. I completely understood that your intent was a helpful suggestion. HOWEVER - it was unnecessary. Sometimes it is important to state your thoughts, some times they do more harm than good no matter what your intentions were. If and when you can discern which opinions are not helpful, then it would behoove you to keep it to yourself and focus on the things that you can do to improve yourself.

A few things I have learned in my time on the planet:

Don't comment about a woman being pregnant unless I can see a baby being born right at that moment.
Don't ask about spouses or significant others if I have not seen someone for more than a week.
Don't make any comments about appearance - hair, weight - regardless of whether I think a change for the better has occurred.

It just works out better for me this way, lol.

Sharnee, it was necessary because there are some people out there who avoid the long-term goals.

Re: FAW

It will be expected that a woman "collects" jewellery and shoes more than anything else - up to a point. When I was married, my husband had a huge problem with my shoes. I think I had 15-20 pairs - whoopie-doo, I'm gonna pass Imelda Marcos and Mila Mulroney in a minute, I'm sure - in spite of the fact that I had bought all of them on sale at places which were already dirt cheap, or used at Salvation Army. He went crying to my father - the two of them were kindred spirits - and I was treated to an "intervention". At the price I'm paying for them, what difference does it make, I asked.

That neatly shut them up, but they were unhappy. And that's because the reason it shut them up is not because there was nothing that they could have said, it was because what they would have wanted to say was not something they could admit. The gist of it was that a woman is not supposed to own anything and take any space - she's not quite human, you see, and, as such, she doesn't really exist on her own, only through others. She's not allowed to be, do, or own anything in her own name.

But even back then, it would have been highly politically incorrect to say that in so many words, so they didn't - much better to just lean heavily in the direction they want "the silly twat" to go. Oh, they have to make SOME allowance, because they can't expect the woman to go naked, but what they begrudgingly would have found "reasonable" was 3-4 pairs of shoes, you know - one pair of flats, one pair of heels, one pair of track shoes and one pair of sandals. The end. Nothing but the STRICT MINIMUM. Anything more and the woman is being greedy and neurotic, and she's unreasonably cluttering the house with her junk.

Oh, I know there will be SOME out there who think I'm being paranoid. After all, things have changed so much in the past 50 years. Women are bankers now, and truck drivers and astronauts, they can easily earn a living, there are shelters to serve as a half-way solution for women escaping violent households, there is the Pill and abortion rights... A woman no longer HAS to remain in an abusive situation, nor is she a slave to pregnancy anymore. Indeed that has changed drastically. But the mentalities have not...

One indication of this - among others - is how middle age is perceived. How come a woman past 40 is viewed as "over the hill" while a man the same age is considered "in his prime"? The only difference between the two of them is the reproduction equipment. The woman's baby machine is getting a bit stale at that age. And, while a man of 40 may need Viagra to get the machinery lever up and running, the sperm factory is still going full pelt.

So the social context has altered, to the point where Earth is not the same planet I was born in - but the thinking, the reasoning, the mentalities... are still in the forties and the fifties - if not the 19th century about some things. And the proof that the mentalitiers have not changed is that nothing is secure - still in 2010, we have to keep fighting for the right to choose, for equal pay and opportunities, against sexual harassment, for the right for a woman's past to not be used as a proof of guilt in a rape case - because there are those still, both men AND women, who keep charging back to try and take away these rights and bring women back to 'their place".

Things change slowly - very, VERY slowly. This is what I define as the new feminism, you know - now that we have changed the laws, we have the change the thinking, and not just the men's. Not just the men's... But, do we ever have our work cut out for us.


About your one cousin, I would hazard to say that the reason she keeps putting you down is not just because of severe insecurity, but also because she's green with envy. Precisely because of all the things you could have rubbed in her face, and didn't. And that's another thing, you know : if you had rubbed it in her face, she could have run to family members crying, and they would have had to agree that she had a legitimate complaint. But you didn't and thus robbed her of the opportunity to find you in the wrong, and so she hates you for that too!

"if you had rubbed it in her face, she could have run to family members crying, and they would have had to agree that she had a legitimate complaint. But you didn't and thus robbed her of the opportunity to find you in the wrong, and so she hates you for that too!"

Ooooh, I hadn't thought of that! But she is just crazy enough to think that way! Thanks for enlightening me to that!

Sadly, I agree with you about how the attitude (in the US and Canada anyway) is still rather sexist. But I *hope* we're at least moving in the right direction. Perhaps, more slowly than preferable.

Re: FAW

I have come to believe that sexism is basically an atavistic attitude that has to be overcome as part of mankind's evolution.

But it's a hard, long, winding road and the evolution process is extremely slow. We have to put in our effort, but we won't see the end result.

Re: FAW

"Ooooh, I hadn't thought of that! But she is just crazy enough to think that way! Thanks for enlightening me to that!"
You're very welcome. As Sarrah Morrow will agree to if she thinks about it for a minute, I have found that, once you have determine the motivation driving people, their behaviour becomes so predictable it's boring.

Paul - and that is your concern because.... oh, right, it isn't. Mind your business unless you are directly asked for advise - which this letter writer did not ask. If LW wrote, "I am over-weight, do you think I should make the effort to lose it?" Then your statement was valid. Otherwise it is nothing more than self-righteous harping.

Paul - The song by Sarah Bareilles, "King of Anything" reminds me of this discussion, note the following lyrics:

You sound so innocent, all full of good intent
Swear you know best
But you expect me to jump up on board with you
And ride off into your delusional sunset

I'm not the one who's lost with no direction
And who cares if you disagree?
You are not me
Who made you king of anything?
So you dare tell me who to be?
Who died and made you king of anything?

Sharnee, you're criticizing me for giving advice that wasn't asked for, yet now you're giving me advice that I didn't ask for as well? Also, I don't believe in minding one's own business; too many problems in this world still exist because people are too cowardly to speak up!

Re: Lise Brouillette: Whenever anyone scowls at your record collection, just imagine Nick Hornby smiling at you instead.

Re: Van Wickle

Yeah, except that I'm neither compulsive nor neurotic...

In fact, I'm not so much a "record collector" as a trained musician who happens to do flea markets, bazaaars and garage sales because what I do for a living takes be there for my source of materials. It's pretty hard to resist buying something that is dirt cheap and a darn good piece of music, especially when I know it's a rarity and that I don't have it. I also have a lot of clothing because of that, although I'm not a "collector".

As for Nick Hornby smiling, we have a character here called Edgar Fruitier, who started out as a comedian, very talented I must say, mainly lnown on local TV shows. He is also very much a great amateur of music and has amassed such a collection (ten times what I have) and quite extensively self-taught on musicology, that he has actually made a niche for himself on TV because of it - now he has music shows, like "Edgar Fruitier and his ghosts", which is right now on stage, and was a TV series a while ago, involving imaginary conversations he has with high-profile big names such as Mozart and Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

If it comes to that, I once made mention of an ex-boyfriend (now good friend) who had the same amount of books and records as me - back then. For those who did'nt read that post, allow me to repeat mysel - he was also a photographer who owned a collection of antique cameras strewed about the house and the walls were full of his work. People visiting were FASCINATED - "Oooooh, it's like being in a museum and an art gallery at the same time, lookit all the wonderful jazz records, it must have taken you years to assemble such a collection, there must be stuff that's worth money in the-e-e-ere!" The exact same people who would show up at my place would shriek - "MY GOD, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF SHIT HERE, DO YOU REALLY NEED ALL THIS JUNK?" Huh-huh. Interesting that in HIS house, the same amount of "shit" is an essss-TRAordinary collection, but in MY place, it becomes junk.

This is what I've been arguing: only a man is allowed to occupy space on his own. The social landscape has changed but the mentalities have not - I've ranted about this at length before, as you'll know unless you're very new here!

It bothers me a lot that I have to either live like a hermit or suffer the rude, sexist comments of clods.

Re: Paul

Ah-Ha, but from the moment you express yourself in a post, you open yourself to responses of people also expressing thmselves... comes with the territory. if you don't want people to have an opinion on your opinion, then don't post one!

Paul - There is a huge difference between minding your own business instead of calling the police when you witness a robbery in progress and minding your own business when it comes to what you perceive as someone elses flaws. I hope you can take as good as you give because I can't imagine that you are a very popular person if you think yourself to be saving the world by bringing attention to someone's double-wide fanny. I think the recipients of your "bravado" are more likely to compare you to Snidely Whiplash than to Dudley Do-Right.

Lise, I never said I wanted anyone to have an opinion on my opinions.

Sharnee, I don't get why you're all bent out of shape over my comment. I explained the whole situation about short-term and long-term goals very clearly!

Correction:

Lise, I never said that I didn't want anyone to have an opinion on my opini

WTF??? I did type out the word "opinion" at the end of that, but the last few letters got deleted! I even proofread my comment that time!

Re: Paul

No, you didn't say it, but you ALMOST told her to mind her own business...It would appear you don't believe in minding your own business when it comes to YOU delivering advice, but when the tables are turned, it's a different matter! In other words, you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

One last time: If you post a comment, you can expect others to have an opinion about it and to give it to you uncensored - comes with the territory and some of them won't be polite. If you don't want, correction if you don't LIKE people having an opinion about your comments unless they agree with you, then don't post. I myself have been contradicted, disputed, argued with and even blasted many times. And my head is neither bloodied nor bowed!

Lise, I guess you just don't get it. My point was that she was being a hypocrite. I mean, she criticized me for giving advice that wasn't asked for, yet she went and did the same thing to me. I never "almost" told her to mind her own business or anything like that.

Paul - I am not "bent out of shape", I do love a good debate but I don't lose sleep over this comment board. I understand your long vs. short term goals..... but quite frankly, who cares? It looks to me like you are just being arrogant and self-righteous no matter what your stated reasons are for the comment. I am merely calling you out in the same way that you felt it necessary to call out the LW. You seem to be squirming on the hot seat.

Sharnee, if you want to live your life without goals, that's fine, but don't look down on those of us who believe in self-improvement through short-term and long-term goals.

No, Paul. I live my life with goals - but you don't get to dictate them to me or anyone else. Please, get over yourself

Re: Paul

Paul, you keep confusing different cases of propriety here. You "ask" for the advice and opinion of the other posters the minute you post. But for you to suggest that LW3, who is not a poster, needs to go on a diet to lose weight was uncalled for. Like others have pointed out, there are many reasons why a person might have a bellyful of skin folds and that person is not necessarily overweight. You assumed. Those who addressed you did not. Their posts were justified. Yours was not.

I don't want to address this again. It seems that you would argue until the cows come home rather than admit that you jumped the gun.

Sharnee, NO, you get over yourself! I didn't DICTATE goals to anyone! I just gave my opinion on what that person's goals should be, just like you gave your opinion on the issue as well!
Lise, I did not jump the gun. I gave my opinion on the basis of the information that was given. I never said that LW3 was morbidly obese. I just thought that she should work on her belly rather than spread deodorant on it for the rest of her life. Maybe surgery is an option, although that doesn't work for everyone and isn't always covered by health insurance.
Also, no one needs to "ask" for advice in order for a person to comment on these boards. Otherwise, these boards would not exist. If you don't like my comments, then don't read them. (Take your own advice).

Re: sharnee

Sharnee, forget it, you're pumping your blood pressure for nothing. This guy has to have the last word at any cost, has-to. has-to. has-to. has-to. It's like a compulsion. This game of ping-pong will last for as long as the planet is circling the sun if he has his way.

@ Lise - of course you are right. It was kind of fun at first but it is getting old. I think Paul must be an obnoxious pimple-faced 18 y.o., with no life. Either that or heaven forbid- he really believes the asinine opinions he posts.

Re: sharnee

Perhaps. He could also be middle-aged and divorced for the fourth time because he has to be right all the time, all the time, all the time. And, frankly, who cares...

@Lise - agreed. :)

Lise, no wonder your man has been so bitchy towards you! After being with you, I can see why he'd be that way! Also, Sharnee, it sounds like you need a tampon!

I wasn't going to resort to personal attacks, but when two women who are pushing 60 and are old enough to be my mother can't be mature, then why should I?

Re: Paul

My man has not been bitchy to me. You're assuming again.

I could call you the names you deserve, but I will not stoop to your level.

Re: Paul

And besides, let me get this straight - you will use my age as a way to insult me, as if I was the one who should respect YOU?

hee hee hee ho ho ho ho HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW

And you "were not going to resort to personal attack"? hee hee hee hee, an uncalled-for personal attack is what got you in this fix in the first place, Mister Troll.

I have bad news for you, Mister Troll: when you're down to resorting to personal attacks, it's because you've run out of valid arguments - if you had any in the first place...

Lise, you had already resorted to personal attacks against me before I said anything. Remember these:

"Sharnee, forget it, you're pumping your blood pressure for nothing. This guy has to have the last word at any cost, has-to. has-to. has-to. has-to. It's like a compulsion. This game of ping-pong will last for as long as the planet is circling the sun if he has his way."

"Perhaps. He could also be middle-aged and divorced for the fourth time because he has to be right all the time, all the time, all the time. And, frankly, who cares..."


Also, you did say you were having problems with your man:

"You know, I'm also pretty down in the dumps at the moment - It's 20 days to Christmas and the man I care about is being an asshole. Perhaps it makes me overreact a bit..."

Obviously, you think you're better than everyone else on these message boards. You're just another man-hater who will find any reason to throw insults at any male who might disagree with your point of view. Get a life, b*tch!

Chris and cassandr explained the reasoning behind my comments perfectly; you should have listened to them!

Wow, Paul. You are losing it. Get over it already, this is an internet board and you are talking strangers? Why so much anger. BTW... you are making assumptions... I am no where near 60 and certainly not old enough to be your mom. I have stated in previous boards that I am mid-thirties and I have small children. Assume much? Let me tell you tell you my short and long term goals for my sons: Short Term - get through kindergarten. Long Term - Learn to tolerate and respect each other's difference without presuming to set short and long term goals for others.

P.S. - If you reply you will be proving that Lise B. was right after all... you are a troll who has to have the last word. :)

Sharnee, you made assumptions about me. Also, I've found that most women on here consider any man who disagrees with them to be a troll.

Actually, another un-truth. I did call you a troll just now, but in fact most of your posts are not of a "troll-ish" nature. Also, if you have ever read my posts of often agree with Chris and sometimes even Matt. My issue with you is not a male vs. female issue. It is simply your self-righteous position regarding someone else's weight.

Sharnee, all I did was make a suggestion, and you took it as an insult even after I explained that I wasn't insulting LW3.