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Dated Stereotypes Behind Dateless Nights?
Dear Annie: I am a divorced male in my mid-50s. I cannot seem to find anyone to connect with. I am a fit, intelligent, successful businessman. I can prepare a gourmet meal, clean a bathroom and change the head gasket on a 1986 Pontiac.
Most of the women my age tend to be rather fuddy-duddy. They are only interested in their grandchildren, quilting or gardening. Younger women seem to be looking for a mate to start a family. I have no interest in that.
I keep myself active in social, theatrical and church activities. I live in a conservative community, and relocating is not an option. It would be easy to lower my standards, but after two divorces, I would like to find a life partner. — Alone in Casper, Wy.
Dear Casper: Seriously? Women in their 50s are only interested in quilting and grandchildren? Did you travel back in time to find them? Such stereotyping will not endear you to any female. Women of all ages are interested in many things, including social, theatrical and church activities, just like you. They are sharp, smart, funny and compassionate. If you cannot locate any of them, you are looking in the wrong places.
Casper is a decent-sized city, and you may need to cast your net a little wider than your local community. Since you have already been divorced twice, you might want to contemplate why you cannot seem to attract a compatible, appropriate partner. You sound like a nice catch.
Dear Annie: I've been friends with "Charlotte" for years. We used to be "phone friends" but have recently started doing things together (walking, shopping, eating out, etc.). However, every time I ask whether she's available, she always says, "I'll have to let you know." She never says "yes." Most of the time she is unable to meet me, although she does eventually let me know. It makes me feel like she'll spend time with me if nothing better comes along.
Charlotte is retired but has a family that takes a lot of her time. I work two jobs, so my time is limited. Two weeks ago, I asked her to come to a lecture with me. I gave her plenty of notice, saying if she was unable to attend, I would do something with my sister instead. Charlotte said she would be out of town that morning and wasn't sure when she'd return. Later, she left a message saying she was hoping to make it, but wasn't certain.
When I came home from work, I still hadn't heard from Charlotte, so when my sister asked whether I was available, I went. I left Charlotte a message, saying I wouldn't be back in time to go to the lecture. I haven't heard from her since. I called once, but she didn't have time to talk. Was I wrong to do something with my sister before Charlotte gave me a definite answer? — Ohio
Dear Ohio: Yes. Granted, Charlotte seems a little reluctant to make social commitments, but that doesn't mean you should behave the same way. Call her and apologize for running out on her. Then the next time she gives you a wishy-washy response, say, "I'll take that as a 'no' unless you get back to me." Or stop arranging to meet up with her altogether and you'll be less frustrated.
Dear Annie: I hope you have room for one more story about stolen food. In high school, my mother had a problem with someone taking lunches from her locker. One day, she packed a lard sandwich. Her lunch was never stolen again. — South Williamsport, Penn.
Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please e-mail your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 5777 W. Century Blvd., Ste. 700, Los Angeles, CA 90045. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.
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41 Comments | Post Comment
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"Dear Casper: Seriously? Women in their 50s are only interested in quilting and grandchildren? Did you travel back in time to find them? Such stereotyping will not endear you to any female."
Woo! Is it just me or does it sound like the Annie's are taking a lesson from Amy (AKA Advice Goddess)? They seem unusually lively in their answer to LW1, no doubt because they are in their mid-50s and were offended by the LW's stereotyping.
That was the most exciting response they've ever given and no trace of "get counselling."
Comment: #1
Posted by: zeus
Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:22 PM
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Ohio, you were NOT wrong. People refusing to commit to plans and yet expecting you to keep the date/event/ticket for them are disrepectful of you and your time. That said, I think Annie's advice would work. If don't get an outright yes, make it clear that you will make other plans.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Walkie
Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:38 PM
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I can't believe the Annies and Charlotte expect LW2 to sit around waiting for Charlotte to let LW2 know if they can get together, all the way until the moment the event is supposed to start. If all of LW2's friends were as inconsiderate and poor at planning as Charlotte, LW2 could have 10 "tentative" activities planned a day for a week and have to sit by the phone before each and every one of them and then possibly never get to do anything.
The Annies should have suggested what I finally started doing with people who are unable to commit to doing something until the moment that event or meeting is supposed to take place. I give people like that a deadline. I say "Please, let me know if you'd like to get together Friday night by Tuesday. If I don't hear from you by Tuesday, I'll feel free to make other plans."
Many people have to check with spouses or babysitters before they can go ahead and make plans. I totally understand that. But what is up with self-important people who think that the person who was so thoughtful as to invite them somewhere has absolutely nothing better to do but wait on pins and needles for the honor of their company? What if LW2 had two tickets to a concert and wanted Charlotte to go as the second person, but had many other friends who would be happy to go as well? LW2 needs to reprioritize and only invite Charlotte to events where LW2 is already meeting a larger group of friends, or plans to sit at home and do nothing in case Charlotte gets back to her with a "no" at the last minute. Otherwise, as what happened here, not only was LW2 waiting for a response, but poor LW2's sister had to wait, too.
Comment: #3
Posted by: FAW
Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:42 PM
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I had to laugh at LW#1. Fifty year old women quilting? Well there probably are some, but as a sixty-seven year old who loves to dance, ride her bicycle, and doesn't want to prepare a gourmet meal, I have to assure him that I haven't ever quilted (but why not? It's a legitimate and quite wonderful art form), and actually rarely have a needle in my hands. Sometimes there's a button...., but.... Of course, if I had grandchildren I'd be very interested in them. I'd take them dancing with me!
Comment: #4
Posted by: Connie Tyler
Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:18 PM
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Re: LW1, I'll confess that I have several female friends who are interested in quilting. Several belong to a quilting group. And the ones with grandchildren do dote on them. But that's not the extent of their interests. My oldest friend, who makes and sells quilts, also plays harps, hosts potlucks, works full time, and is politically active. My other friend who loves quilting, is also a wonderful painter, running a small studio selling her own creations.
I think the letter writer's problem may be the way he is meeting women. My advice to him would be to try to make friends of both sexes through the activities he enjoys and finds stimulating, rather than trying to "meet a woman" then find out whether or not she has shared interests. For example, if he loves the theater, put an ad on Craigs list looking for friends who love live theater.Some of them are sure to be female, and if they respond to his ad to go with him, they're probably single.
Re: LW2, Charlotte's behavior is strictly for the birds. I agree that the LW should give Charlotte (or those like her) a deadline, and let her know in a direct and friendly way that if she doesn't respond by the deadline you'll be making other plans.
Comment: #5
Posted by: sarah morrow
Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:08 PM
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LW1 - Join some intro Scottish dancing lessons! They are filled with women and always need more males. Good luck!
Comment: #6
Posted by: S
Wed Sep 1, 2010 12:08 AM
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LW1 - Join some intro Scottish dancing lessons! They are filled with women and always need more males. Good luck!
Comment: #7
Posted by: S
Wed Sep 1, 2010 12:08 AM
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I'm 50 and female. I like to go to baseball games where I drink beer and make noise. Not exactly *fuddy-duddy*. But my gut feeling about "Casper" is that a woman like me would embarrass him, and not meet his impossibly high standards. With some men, no matter what you do, they are NEVER satisfied.
We women want more than a guy who can clean a bathroom and all that. If he's a jerk, we'd rather clean our own bathrooms. And "Casper" sounds like a jerk; I wonder WHY he's been divorced twice.
I personally think that this guy is a conceited jerk who deserves to be alone. As for me, I am happily married to a man who loves me as I am.
Comment: #8
Posted by: Christine
Wed Sep 1, 2010 12:10 AM
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Since the last post was from a woman who enjoys baseball, I am compelled to say that the Annies' response to Ohio (LW 2) was WAY OUT in left field. Ohio was NOT wrong to go with her sister instead of the unreliable Charlotte. This so-called friend told Ohio that she was going out of town, then later left a message that she "wasn't sure" if she could make it. She then FAILED to call Ohio by the end of Ohio's work day. Ohio, you did the right thing. I'd say you should either write Charlotte off, she is NOT dependable. Or if you want to keep her as a friend, then invite her only to plans where she can join you, as in a free lecture at the local library, where you either attend alone or with other people. Waiting for Charlotte to commit in enough time is like waiting for the winter winds to stop blowing...it just ain't gonna happen. And one more suggestion for the lunch bandit cure: Why not make a peanut butter sandwich, with a few banana slices? First, simply smear some thick horseradish under the dark peanut butter!
Comment: #9
Posted by: Jean
Wed Sep 1, 2010 12:37 AM
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Most of the 50-something women I know still work full-time. Many are still raising teenage children. LW1 must have either gone back in time to find dates, or he's limited himself to rich widows and women whose ex-husbands pay enough in alimony for them to do nothing but quilt and dote on the children of children they had at a very young age...or maybe both.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Bear
Wed Sep 1, 2010 1:10 AM
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LW1's ideas of what a woman and life partner should be are antiquated and need to be updated. I suggest he invest in a computer and then take classes at his local college or community center to learn how to use it. Then, he'll be able to place an ad on one of the highly reputable e-dating services available today. My guess is that he'll meet someone fun and interesting before he gets to the point of posting the ad.
LW2 should apologize to her friend, but, she should also make it clear to her that her wishy washy attitude towards committing to plans is irritating and will no longer be tolerated. I like Annie's advice to tell the friend upon future invitations that she'll take anything less than a firm commitment one way or the other as a "no", but, I wouldn't give the woman a chance to "get back with me" first (she'll dawdle and take forever to do so.) Being late and non-committal are signs of passive aggressive. LW2's friend likes to be in control of the situation and keeping LW2 dangling all the time is her way of doing it.
I've said it already and I'll say it again. If you don't want people stealing your lunch, don't store it in a public refrigerator. Period! It costs a few dollars to invest in an insulated lunch bag and a re-freezable ice pack. Keep the lunch in your desk. Putting lard, garlic, pepper, laxatives, etc., in a lunch in the hopes of baiting a thief is asking for trouble! There will always be people in every situation who will take what isn't theres. It's not our responsibility to "teach them a lesson" (they won't learn anyway.)
Comment: #11
Posted by: Chris
Wed Sep 1, 2010 4:29 AM
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I was a bit insulted by Caspers comment that the women he met are interested in Quilting. There is absolutely nothing wrong with women, like myself, who quilt or do needlework. I have done it for years as it an amazingly inexpensive and wonderful stress release not to mention a time honored tradition. and it gives women something to do while he works on his 1986 Pontiac! Casper needs to stop judging people by thweir hobbies and accept them for who they are. He might also want to consider that dating a crafter has added benefits such as being the recipient of homemade quilts, and homemade swaters. Needlework also is a great way to meet new people. Maybe he should consider learning a new craft himself!
Comment: #12
Posted by: cj
Wed Sep 1, 2010 4:33 AM
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Ohio owes no apology. She can't be expected to dance attendance on her friend. If the friend won't make up her mind, Ohio has no commitment to her. Frankly, if I had a friend like this, I'd be just as happy to let her go. It's insulting to be treated like this.
Comment: #13
Posted by:
Wed Sep 1, 2010 5:28 AM
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Ohio, consider that Charlotte may not be waiting to see if something better comes along -- she may be looking to see which member of her extended family needs her that day -- elderly parents or grandkids, particularly if she's the go-to backup person for people who work erratic shifts. If she's retired, my guess is that other family members figure they can always call on her because their work is more important than her leisure. That's her call to go along with.
Doesn't mean it has to be yours, though, and it IS rude to repeatedly leave someone hanging. Your time is valuable, too. If it were me, I'd keep Charlotte as a phone friend and find someone else to go out & do things with -- unless Charlotte calls and invites YOU somewhere.
Comment: #14
Posted by: hedgehog
Wed Sep 1, 2010 5:51 AM
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Christine, how do you manage to get to baseball games with that twenty pound chip on your shoulder? What, besides your own projections and experience with men, made you think that LW1 was a "conceited jerk"? How do you know he wouldn't like to go to a baseball game with a woman? All he said was that he was looking for a life partner and having trouble finding women in his age bracket who were interested in anything besides quilting and their grandchildren. And that was his experience. Then a great hue and cry arose from all the ladies who like to quilt. Chris even made up something about the man's impossible standards, but I saw nothing in his letter that indicated his standards were so terribly unusual. Maybe he should give internet dating a chance - with his eyes wide open!
Comment: #15
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:05 AM
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My error on Chris's quote. He said LW1's ideas of what a woman should be are "antiquated" and my question is: where did he say what a woman should be? Chris, how did you arrive at that?
Comment: #16
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:09 AM
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LW1 - Did Casper confuse 50 with 80? Okay, I can see some women in their 50s being grandmas, but far from all. I, personally, know only a couple. Most women in their mid-50s I know have teenage kids or kids in their early 20s who are mostly thinking of college or grad school, finding good jobs, pursuing careers, and dating (not having babies!). And lots of people of all ages love gardening, myself included, and I have a ways to go until 50. Quilting? I know one quilter. She is in her 70s, been quilting for the past 40 years or so, and does beautiful work. She also loves music, goes to concerts all the time, travels around the world, and enjoys boating. Just sayin'.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Ariana
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:11 AM
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LW2 - I can't believe Annies told the LW to sit and wait until her friend condescends to inform her of her plans. I can see not being able to give an answer on the spot and needing to check your calendar first, but constantly making somebody wait on you is rude. From the letter, however, it sounds like Charlotte is really busy and not necessarily waiting for something better to come up. LW was NOT wrong to go and do things with her sister when Charlotte was not able to commit. In the future, giving Charlotte a response deadline might be helpful to both women.
Comment: #18
Posted by: Ariana
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:15 AM
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Maybe that 24 year old Pontiac isn't scoring Casper too many points, either (unless he was kidding about that). I'm not that superficial, but then, I'm already married.
Comment: #19
Posted by: Carla
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:20 AM
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No, Maggie Lawrence, that wasn't quite ALL that LW1 said. He said most women in their 50s tend to be "rather fuddy-duddy". I'm not quite sure what that means, or why cooking a gourmet meal apparently doesn't count as "fuddy-duddy" but quilting and gardening do?
I'm just amazed that the women that age in Casper don't seem to like movies, nature walks, travel, sporting events, reading, church socials, university lectures, concerts, their work, art galleries, fishing, antiquing, canning, politics, yoga, tai chi, volunteering, horseback riding or any of the other myriad activities that I know women in that age range regularly take part in here.
My guess is that LW1 is having a hard time because he's writing individual women off too soon, before finding out whether each one might enjoy getting involved in theater in ways she hadn't considered -- wardrobe? ushering? program design? ad sales? Or talking about various movies or books that have affected each of you deeply, and why. Or trying a new ethnic restaurant. Or the best trips you've ever taken.
Or going out at night to see a meteor shower.
Hobbies are only one aspect of ourselves, and sometimes reflect our desire to participate in something with our friends. . (You may love tandem bike riding, but it's sure hard to do alone. Similarly, if my best friend is a knitter, I may take it up so we can knit and watch a movie together.) She may not particularly want to quilt or garden with a guy, and be more open than you might expect to activities you suggest. But you won't ever know if you automatically dismiss her because you asked her "what do you like to do in your spare time?" and she replied, "I like to garden."
Comment: #20
Posted by: hedgehog
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:40 AM
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LW1 - I also wonder just why he's divorced twice. Is it because he's difficult or because he picks difficult women? Either way I'd put the brakes on the social life if I were him until I gained insight on that, if he hasn't already...
It's my understanding that the older you are, the harder it is to find a spouse, let alone a date. Given the dating pool is going to be a lot smaller when you're in your 50s than if you're in your 20s or 30s, if I were him, after figuring out just why I ended up spouseless twice, I'd work on my expectations on the kind of person with whom I'd like to spend my life and whether I'm really taking enough time to get to know prospective dates/future spouses. Perhaps he'd find that some of these women have a lot more interests than their quilting or grandchildren after all.
LW2 - I don't think Ohio did anything wrong either. Charlotte's behavior is flaky and rude. It's one thing if she wasn't sure about a commitment from time to time, but to be like this every time is too much. It's beyond me as to why the Annies implied that somehow Ohio should have to wait around until the last minute for such an unreliable friend, especially when it's clear this is a pattern.
Isn't there some sort of guideline that says if someone keeps turning you down after several invitations to just stop inviting that person on outings or events? If Ohio doesn't want to consider that then I'd also go for the suggestion of giving a deadline and then do a variation of what the Annies' said by adding "If you don't respond by the date I gave then I'll assume that's a no."
Comment: #21
Posted by: PS
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:43 AM
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Lard sandwich! Ha! I can't get that image out of my mind. Lard sandwich. That's brilliant. :)
Comment: #22
Posted by: mommish
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:49 AM
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LW1: Who knows, maybe in a small town, 55-year old women are already grandmothers three times over, and have stopped working and started quilting. Seems unlikely though. The writer, who thinks women are old-fashioned, should try to be a little up-to-date himself, and sign up to an online dating service, possibly one that has more older members.
LW2: About stolen food, just put a bunch of chili poweder in it one day! Or, put a bunch of thick rubber bands around the box of food. Seems like common sense that a thief would take what is easiest to open. A few rubber bands might do the trick.
LW3: To Charlotte, just say "Can you let me know by Tuesday if you can go to the museum?" A deadline might help her, and gets you off the hook if you ask someone else afterward. You could add "If not, that'll give me enough time to see if someone else can go, because I don't want to go alone."
Comment: #23
Posted by: Salty
Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:52 AM
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I'm not reading the Annies as implying that Ohio should wait around for Charlotte. To the contrary, they encouraged Ohio to take back control of the situation by saying "I'll take that as a no" and advising that it would be even less frustrating to stop inviting her.
But it's Ohio's decision on whether she wants to continue seeing Charlotte.
If Ohio wants to keep the friendship, she should apologize. Flaking out like that did NOT teach Charlotte a lesson, it merely irked her (and consider Charlotte may not have been driving, and had to leave when the driver wanted). Yes, Charlotte should have said from the get-go, "Don't count on me -- I'm not sure when I'll be back, but if I happen to get back in time, I'll call and see if you're still up for it." But two wrongs don't make a right.
Comment: #24
Posted by: hedgehog
Wed Sep 1, 2010 7:22 AM
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@ Maggie Lawrence. I didn't make anything up about LW1. I simply assumed from his statements that women in their 50s "tend to be rather fuddy-duddy. They are only interested in their grandchildren, quilting or gardening. Younger women seem to be looking for a mate to start a family..." that his ideas of what women, of any age, are really quite dated. Those are some powerful umbrella statements, don't you think? I think my assumption based on that is a fair one. That's all.
Comment: #25
Posted by: Chris
Wed Sep 1, 2010 7:32 AM
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Casper, WY has a population of approximately 53K (not tiny place) and this guy is fit, intelligent, a successful bathroom cleaning, gourmet cooking businessman who is active in social, theatrical and church activities and can't find a compatible woman to date. And, he's looking for his 3rd ideal woman. I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting that there may be a major flaw that he fails to recognize. I think the tone of his letter and his general impression of women in there mid 50's kind of supports that.
Comment: #26
Posted by: Rick
Wed Sep 1, 2010 7:57 AM
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I have an odd suggestion, why doesn't Casper go to a local quilting group meeting? I was five months pregnant when I went to one of my mother's quilting group meetings. My mother had to go out of town and had to present her block called a "friendship ring" and she committed to having it ready on a day my father had arranged for them to be out of town. So I went for her and had enormous fun. Out of sixty women, I was the youngest one there, and there were a few grandmotherly types, but the majority of the women were fit, attractive and so funny. One woman made her "block presentation" and told everyone where she bought the material and that she was sleeping with the owner (he was her husband) and another woman said during her presentation, "we're not married, we're just shacking up" when describing the help she got from her mate. I got clucked over during the meeting because of my pregnancy and because I look so much like my mother, but no one really talked about their grandchildren. They talked about restaurants, recipes, traveling was a huge topic as were nude beaches, tummy tucks and other procedures. They loved their age, their freedom, and their hobbies. Not all of them were married, and there were two lesbian couples, and a single gay man, but think of the single women they were bound to know. I was surprised by the racy comments and the energy these people had, and their genuine interest in the people around them. You never know until you try it. Of course, he could show up and let them know he was trawling for women, and he could get his eyes pecked out if he mentions anything about "fuddy duddy women in their 50's".
Comment: #27
Posted by: Chelle
Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:12 AM
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LW1-I have to agree with Christine: LW1 is a self-absorbed jerk. I don't know of very many women who never say at least something about their children/grandchildren. I love my children and I will talk about them but that is usually with friends who have kids of their own. However, I have plenty of interests outside of my children and I know I will continue to have interests independent of my kids as I age. As another poster pointed out, LW1 says he is twice-divorced...gee, I wonder why? And seriously, what's wrong with quilting? I don't do quilting myself but I love handmade crafts. So if these "fuddy-duddies" as LW1 calls them are engaging in something other than doting their grandkids, then they do have other interests. It sounds as though he isn't really bothering to get to know these ladies very well at all. I don't think LW1 needs a wife, he needs an escort (and I mean that with all due sarcasm).
LW2-I don't think Ohio owes her friend an apology, either. I have been stood up by wishy-washy "friends" far too often myself. If her friend is truly limited in time due to her family, then she just needs to say so. However, I don't think that is the case. I've noticed this kind of flaky behavior is all too common among my generation (I'm in my 30s), especially. My husband and I were always invited and nearly always attended our friends' cook-outs at their houses. However, when my husband and I would try to have our own, many of these same people would flake out on us. Most of them never bothered to call. Eventually, we just gave up and only invited one or two couples whom we knew would show up. I think LW2 needs to find some new friends.
@Chelle-I got a big laugh out of your comment. Thanks for sharing that.
Comment: #28
Posted by: LibraryKat
Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:37 AM
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Give the guy a break. It's Wyoming. Tiny population. I met a woman who met the governor there once at a large gathering...and he remembered her name a year later.
Assuming this guy isn't too conservative to leave the country, he could get a passport and join some Road Scholar/Elderhostel theatre tips to London. This is a bright crowd, with lots of women. If he wants to hook up with someone who also has conservative values he can pick topics that might attract retired military or diplomats. He could do a theatre workshop in an area with both summer theatre and retired military: San Diego, Camden, ME, or the Williamsburg VA area. I'd mention Hawaii, but no one is going to move from Hawaii to Wyoming to get married :-)He needs to put himself out there. He could even, gulp, go on a cruise.
This is all based on him being a stand-up guy who will be a loving and caring partner, of course.
Comment: #29
Posted by: Another View
Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:44 AM
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Hmm,. Alone in Casper's letter we had to read twice...& the Annies reply more than that...WOW their response was very un-Annie like. That being said...Alone sounds like the fuddy-duddy...not to mention a little full of himself....he doesn't just cook, he cooks GOURMET meals...his activites are confined, if we believe his letter, to social, theatrical and church circles. We're not going to line up to beat up on him about two divorces 'cause others have taken care of that and, quite frankly, we have 4 divorces between us & 2 deaths of spouses so......yes, to answer an earlier reader's comment, in small towns men & women in their 40's are likely to be grandparents. We wonder if Alone has ANY kids given that he seems put off by any woman who may want to have a child or who is connected with her kids or grandkids. Granted,we now nothing of Casper & the kind of women who reside there but we find it hard to believe his description fits all the women in their 50's he describes as inhabiting Casper. Hasn't alone realized he may have to kiss a few frogs to find a princess? He seems to write women off very quickly as he is searching for a life partner, interesting choice of words, he didn't say wife.....so is he actually going to ante up and marry the ideal woman? He needs to be more open in our opinion.....When Bob and Kat were re-qcquainted , Bob who is 17 years older than Kat had grown children & grandchildren. Kat had children later in life than Bob & she still had teen-agers. Bob & Kat had a lot of common interests and the time they spend doing activities they don't like to share doesn't hurt the relationship. The point is BobKat was an unlikey pairing but Kat said "yes" (okay "why not?") when Bob asked her out and they took the time to realize how good together they were!
Bottom line: Alone will probably be Still Alone if he doesn't adjust to the reality of the world he's living in!
Comment: #30
Posted by: BobKat
Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:59 AM
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I agree with LibraryKat re: "Ohio"..."I think LW2 needs to find some new friends." I think "Charlotte" is trying to end the friendship by not showing up or commiting herself. "Ohio" did say that they started out at "phone friends"; maybe it should have stayed that way.
Comment: #31
Posted by: Mary Ann
Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:59 AM
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LW1--the same three words I tell any man who says he can't find date. Learn to dance. Somebody mentioned Scottish dancing above, and that would be great, but just about any kind of dancing will find you surrounded by women. Latin, square, swing, ballroom--there are lots of choices. One of my aunts dropped out of square dancing because there was too much competition for the few men who were there.
That said, LW1 may look good on paper, but then, so did my ex-husband. Ick. He could clean a bathroom and cook a gourmet meal, but he also thought he was funny in doing Gomer Pyle imitations. <shudder>
LW2 shouldn't have to apologize, but why does she keep putting herself out there for this woman? Stop asking her and find somebody else to do things with. You hurt me once, etc.
Comment: #32
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Wed Sep 1, 2010 10:06 AM
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I'm only 40 and I quilt and garden (and sew, crochet, cross stitch and embroider) because it's too darn cold in Minnesota to do a whole lot outside in the winter! Being in your 50s doesnt mean you are read to sit at home by the fire and rock in your chair, and being interested in quilting and gardening doesnt mean you're old. A lot of women out there in their 50s are single, vital and interesting. LW1 needs to look at himself to see why he has 2 divorces and can't seem to find an exciting, vital woman. Maybe he cant keep up with them?
Comment: #33
Posted by: Kelle
Wed Sep 1, 2010 10:28 AM
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Ohio and other men like him need to familiarize themselves with the "The Ladder Theory". It's an explanation on how single women keep men on a sort of rating system or to coin the phrase 'The rungs of the ladder". See website here:
http://www.laddertheory.com/
It's an evolutionary/survival thing when the female waits on the mate who she feels will provide her with the most success of survival and/or propagating her genes. If the males who approach her "don't fit the bill" they are placed on the bottom rungs of the ladder or kept hanging on. Males unable to recognize the basic foundations of ‘The Ladder Theory' are doomed to spend an inordinate amount of time and resources courting these women. See Charlotte example above.
These men are also often described as 'intellectual tools' if you don't mind the expression and are used for other purposes besides mating. Frequently for intellectualizing or just for rainy day friendships. I suspect this is not the first time Ohio and many other men like him have been placed on the bottom rungs of the ' ladder.' Poor them. They should keep trying. I'm sure there are potential mates out there whose evolutionary survival kit contain criteria that aren't so finally tuned.
Regards..
Bantamcc
Comment: #34
Posted by: Bantamcc
Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:28 AM
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I live in Casper ,Wy and I know alot of fistey 50 year old woman who do more then quilt and talk of grand kids maybe he just needs to open his eyes a little and get out and try harder. The city isn't huge but come on where not Mayberry either.
Comment: #35
Posted by: MaryJane
Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:33 AM
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Calling LW1 a creep or a self-absorbed jerk is a bit much. If a woman commented that men in their 50s tend to be fuddy-duddies, would you jump on her and call her a horrible sexist and self-absorbed?
I do agree that he was over-generalizing. He does need to realize that when we try dating, we'll usually meet a large number of incompatible people before meeting compatible ones. We're playing the odds. When you roll dice they'll rarely come up double sixes the first time. But calling him a creep, jerk, etc. is a stretch.
Regardless of how he expressed himself, in the end he was asking how he could meet women with similar interests (such as theater); that's the part of his letter that should be addressed. Several helpful comments did address it. I hope he read those and didn't feel bowled over by all the hostility of the others.
Comment: #36
Posted by: sarah morrow
Wed Sep 1, 2010 3:43 PM
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About LW1: Any person, male or female, who brags about what a great person they are, is sending up a huge red flag. Maybe that's why he can't find a date. He didn't say outright that he couldn't find a date, he implied that he was the particular one, but perhaps that may not be entirely true. : )
Comment: #37
Posted by: pinetree
Thu Sep 2, 2010 5:53 AM
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I could be offended by the stereotyping of women over 40 or so. I don't match the stereotype either. But then, I see a lot of women who do. A woman and published author in my city helped start a child-free group, and left her book club, because all the women in the book club talked about was their grandchildren. (I suppose older biddies have to talk about their grandchildren, and younger biddies still have to talk about their children, until their spawn breeds more spawn.)
Anyway, married and divorced women, single mommies, grannies and breeders still are the most common, and therefore match the stereotype. Stereotypes are generated, at least partially, by traits that are common, not rare. Duh. And single and childfree people - single by choice and not divorced because they grew a brain instead of jumping into a bad marriage - are still more rare. They are getting more common, which is a wonderful thing!
Therefore, the gentleman could be (1) prejudiced and sexist, or (2) accurate.
Comment: #38
Posted by: OccamShave
Thu Sep 2, 2010 7:54 AM
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Breeders? Pray tell, OccamShave, what in the wide, wide world of sports is a BREEDER? Are you referring to a woman of childbearing age?
Growing a brain? Are you suggesting women do not come equipped with a brain, and don't have one unless they choose to "grow a brain"?! So a woman who meets a man that sets her heart aflutter with happiness, marries him and he turns out to be a wife-beater (or a breeder-beater) is "brainless" because she ends up having to leave him?
What do you have, a magic ball that stops you from being human and making mistakes? And just so you know, I am not divorced and have never been beaten.
Spawn breeds more spawn? How do you think you got here?
I am not offended by your comments and opinions, just a little surprised at the harshness of your views, but you are entitled to your opinions. But really now, BREEDERS?!
Comment: #39
Posted by: Chelle
Thu Sep 2, 2010 8:59 AM
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Re: Chelle
Thank you for saying what I was thinking, and for saying it better than I could have.
Comment: #40
Posted by: Lynn
Thu Sep 2, 2010 9:40 AM
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dear annie,
i want to add an advise on gasper letter ,some womans look the status of a man and your divorce and u had two and thats bit scary but seriously maybe start looking for a friend not immediate patner and maybe you can fine partner in life,godluck
Comment: #41
Posted by: maria
Thu Sep 2, 2010 2:15 PM
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