Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

LW1-
Annies' advice was perfect - They sure can get it right when it doesn't have to do with sex and menopause.

LW2-
What are you doing still married to this man? Does he have you in such a bind somehow, that you're better off with him that without, regardless of what a philanderer he may be?

Well. Only you can answer that question but, if that be the case, you need to dissociate yourself from him emotionally and start leading a separate life. And get yourself tested regularly for STDs.

LW1, dad's eating addiction is his problem. The feelings of disgust you're carrying around with you and projecting onto him are yours. Next time you feel critical of him, remember it's just as hard for him to stop his addiction, as it is for you to stop your response to him. You're already doing what you can do (moving the food you don't want him to eat to a shelf where he can't bend down to get it).

Beyond that, I would recommend disengaging emotionally. Try to let go of your disgusted reaction. Try loving and appreciating whatever time you have left with him, since you can't fix the problems you described.

Re: the Annies' advice, it seems sound on the surface but is not really. As always they assume that the answer to depression lies in a prescription and a pill. Antidepressants don't cure depression. They increase the risk of violent behavior and suicide. They are bad for you. There is almost always a better choice. If you want to be involved in his life, a better way in this case would be to draw him out into activities that will remind him it's good to be alive, and that his life didn't end with the loss of his son.

LW2:

WTF ? Why are you with this jerk ? If he is cheating on you, you are at risk for an STD, and he clearly doesn't respect you, if he is not cheating, and enjoys screwing with your head because he thinks/knows you insecure, then he is intentionally emotionally torturing you.

Seriously, dump the guy, its pretty rare, but you found the one guy who is a jerk, regardless of if he is cheating or not.

FWIW: The guy is a grandfather, and still picking girls up ? Damn.

LW1-My grandfather neglected his health all his life, never exercized or ate properly. In the last few years of his life he coldn't walk much anyway because of his terrible health problems. He had congestive heart failure and the symptoms were super-gross. He finally went on a salt-free vegetarian diet at age 82 and lost 30 pounds in a week, but even that was too late. In the last 4 months of his life he was a living corpse. It was awful to see.
Part of the problem is that my grandmother served the most unhealthy foods at his request. If he cared about his wife, he would've taken his doctor's advice.
Your father is definitely depressed and angry. The best thing you and your mother can do is use the "tough love" approach and "cut him off." That means she must NOT keep unhealthy foods in the home, do not cooks him unhealthy meals, do not handle any of his hygiene needs for him just because he's too fat to reach it, etc.

LW1--Let's face facts honey, it's obvious from your letter that you have issues with your father that go way beyond his weight or eating habits. They're simply a big fat and convenient target at which to direct your pent up anger and resentment. First, recognize that your father isn't invincible and that he is well aware of his weight problem. While it's true that he may be depressed as a result of your brother's death, from your letter you claim your father is carrying around an excess of two hundred pounds; he didn't go from a trim Adonis to that since your brother's death. Instead of simmering in anger at what you perceive to be as your father's willful self-destruction, do your homework and show some compassion. Current findings suggest that there are numerous genes (i.e., possibly several hundred) that affect susceptibility to overweight. Moreover, the various genes interact with one another to further influence vulnerability. People with susceptible to being overweight must work incredibly hard, much harder than others, to maintain a healthy physique. Furthermore, it's possible that a lifetime of bad habits has made your father so out-of-shape that exercise and severe dietary restrictions could cause more harm than good at this point. My advice to you is to let go of your anger and offense at your father's weight. He is your father and you love him. Instead of throwing his faults in his face, do your part to make eating right and exercising easier for him when he visits. I highly suggest that you entreaty your mother to do the same. For example, skip the iHop next time and try sushi or a deli. Stock the fridge with only fresh fruits and vegetables (which your kids will enjoy too) and TAKE your father out for short but brisk walks around the yard or up the street rather than snidely "suggesting" he take a walk. It's not easy watching a parent seemingly self-destruct by their own hand but ultimately it's their own life to do with as they will.

LW2--A wayward child Annie? Seriously? LW2's husband is a cruel and selfish prick. She doesn't trust him because he willfully violated her trust. These two sound like they have a love / hate relationship and zero communication that over the years has rendered them little more than roommates. My guess is that LW2 is only still with this man after all these years because she's financially stable or can't / won't face having to start her life all over alone. Rather than simmering in silence over her husband's obvious philandering, she should either accept that he isn't going to change and let go of her anger and resentment over his trysts, or, reach around and locate her backbone and file for divorce.

LW1: Your father lost a child. Not a dog, but a child. No amount of prodding is going to make the pain go away. None. The only way he can he can comfort himself is with food. Stay close to him and keep the grandchildren near, and have some compassion. Tell him that you love him and want him to see his grandchildren graduate and get married. There is nothing else you can do. Poor fella.

Re: Nod: I don't know if I would go as far as "tough love" but I think it's important to start creating an environment where your Dad can make healthy choices instead of unhealthy ones. That may involve buying different foods, going out to different restaurants, doing some gardening together, etc. It is hard to avoid anger when you see someone willfully destroying themselves, but you need to try to keep keep your mind on the end goal of getting your father healthy.

It's worth having him evaluated for depression but I don't know that drugs are the solution. Drugs on their own may make him happier or more balanced, but they won't change his eating habits.

Short of committing Dad to a mental institution for being suicidal, and the hospital would control his food intake, it is up to his wife to stock only healthy food in the house. Sure he can go out and get food, but at least he would have to walk to the car, and then walk from the car to the grocery or restaurant.

What does FWIW stand for, Mookster?

Re: Casey

For What It's Worth :)

LW1 - Your letter just reeked of resentment and anger. I would almost go so far as to suggest that you are angry about something (such as your brother's untimely death) and spewing that at the nearest, easiest target: your obese father.

I agree with the Annies in getting your family's help to treat his depression. Sit down with your mom and strategize: stop stocking the house with junk; serve his meals on smaller plates; substitute lower cal versions - I'm sure there are many ways to cut back many calories without him even noticing. And then try to tackle the depression - if this can be done, he may be motivated to get healthier. But if he doesn't, you are going to have to learn to accept your father for who he is, and accept him FAST, because he may not be around much longer.

LW2 - Wtf? Why are you even writing in? I think you need to shut up and accept your situation... or, you know, GET A DIVORCE.

Annies' response sounds like it's right out of the 40's. LOL. Ridiculous.

LW1: I agree with Chris that there are deeper issues here between the LW and her father than just the weight. The fact that the father lost a child in Afghanistan was almost added as an afterthought. The letter dripped with judgement and had not one bit of sympathy.

In addition to the excellent advice given by my fellow posters, I would suggest grief counseling and/or Overeaters Annonymous. I would also work on the situation with your MOTHER who you barely mention at all. Getting her into some kind of Alanon type thing might be the best way to help your father. I mean think about it for a minute: if you are disgusted by your dad, how hard has it got to be on her?

LW2: Make the decision now whether or not you want to stay in this marriage and continue to be emotionally abused. If you decide to stay, realize that you will get no sympathy. If you decide to leave, call a lawyer. If it was me, I'd be out but then I have a low pain threshhold.

LW3: I don't believe that two wrongs make a right so I don't agree with you. I sould just call the police and let THEM call the neighbor.

Re: sarah morrow
Please stop this "anti-depressants are bad" crap, because for a lot of people who live with mood disorders, you are doing them a disservice. Depression, anxiety disorders and bipolar disorder all result from chemical imbalances that can be helped with medication. However, a pill is not a magic bullet, and should be accompanied by psychotherapy.
Yes, there are side effects with psychotropic medications, just like there are for ANY medication, including your run-of-the-mill analgesics. However, each individual is going to have different reactions to any given medication, so what works for one person may not work for another, which is why there are so many different antidepressants on the market, because they work on different neurotransmitters in different ways.
So before you completely write off medication to handle mood disorders, such as depression, do some research. I know that when I needed it, antidepressants helped me immensely when accompanied by therapy to a better mindset. Fortunately, I don't have to take them anymore, but they're just another tool in treating these kinds of problems that should be considered in treatment.

Re: Chris

Skip the all-you-can-eat-sushi joint, though. I can pack away about 1500 calories in one sitting there and I normally do not eat much per meal. Hmm maybe I will go tonight...

@Sarah Morrow - I responded to your question from yesterday's column on that thread.

Re: nanchan

As a food addict who is FINALLY turning the corner and been able to better control my food intake, I'm not sure that OA is necessarily a wise idea...well, at least it didn't work for me. OA talks about addiction being a "disease" that we have no power over, and I don't believe that. For me, it was just something else to blame my bad behavior on and get me off the hook.

I believe in personal responsibility and that addiction is a symptom of an underlying problem or set of problems. In my case, I have handled a lot of what was eating me enough to the point where I was out of control with my eating habits, and now I'm working on adopting new eating habits and using tools I found that allow me to be accountable for my actions. I'm also working on an exercise plan, but it's difficult, since even doing brisk walking for a mile leaves me winded; doesn't matter, I still try to do at least 10 minutes a day, and try to build on that. It's going to be a really tough struggle, especially since I have about 135 pounds to lose (yep, you read that right. I have to lose an entire person), and it's going to take some time, but I want to be healthy for the first time in my life.

Oh gee whiz people, stop the blame game concerning LW1's disgust with her father and his destructive habits. Yes, he is most probably depressed, yes, he needs help, and yes, she needs to stop critising and start offering up some solutions to her mom. If he was a drunkl, or a drug addled addict you would all be telling the mom to kick him out and the duaghter not to let him near the kids. Killing yourself with food, breaking furniture and showing her kids it's okay to act in such an unhealthy fashion is no different than any other addict. Rather than focusing your vitriol on this woman , who clearly has had enough of watching her dad destroy himself with not with oixycontin or booze, but with food, come up with the names of some organizations who deal with this type of behavior.

Re: Janie

You are awesome!! I have NO DOUBT that you will reach your goal. You've probably heard it all in your quest for a healthier lifestyle but I feel compelled to make this suggestion anyway since you mentioned that exercise was difficult - find a class for an activity you like (such as boxing, or yoga, or spinning) and just dive right in. Go at your own pace, and you will find motivation in your classmates. You will find yourself much stronger, much more quickly, than building up to it so slowly by walking.

Not that there is anything wrong with walking, and if that's what works for you, do it up! It's really good for you. "My" way is just a fast track. It also forces you into active recovery which is really good for you.

Re: Blenie

Oh, if only it were that easy.

1) No one is "blaming" LW1. However, if she can come to realize that her anger is misplaced, she may be able to appreciate and love her father while he's still around, rather than focus on his weight.
2) While food addiction is indeed an addiction, it is not the same, in all ways, as alcohol or drug addiction. Children do not need to be kept away from fat people!! Children are kept away from violent drunks to protect them, not because we're afraid they'll start boozing as well (this happens, I know, but it would not be my primary concern at that moment).
3) I see you qualified your own post with names of some organizations. Oh, wait... The problem with just spouting out some names of places for fat people is that LW1 is not the one battling a food addiction. She needs advice on how to deal with HER issues. If she can help "fix" her father that would be great. But first she needs peace in her heart because coming at it from an angry place will not result in success.

I have to say when I read this all I could do is think wow..did someone in my family send this is? I know they didn't but our circumstamnces are very similar. I am now over 400 lbs and NO ONE is more disgusted about that me believe me. but what you fail to talk about in this..is the gieving. Our society doesn't realize the amount of pain that goes along with grieving a child's death. We lost our son 3 yrs ago to leukemia, and even though we have 2 children and grandchildren that "inspire" us to handle and cope daily..I can't begin to tell you the emotional torment that goes along with the loss of your child. How can you explain the fact that part of your heart is dead, too..or that every beautiful new memory is so bittersweet because that other child of yours isn't physically there to join in the memory, all the what if's that will forever go unanswered. I thank God for the 20 beautiful yrs we got with our son, and I thank God for every day we get with our kids and grandkids, but I mostly thank God my child isn't like this obviously insensitive daughter! Be extremely happy and blessed that you don't know the excrutiating heartbreak that goes along with child loss. BTW...we know we need to lose the weight..but you also have to remember "our world" doesn't help obese people..if you look at treadmills, and exercise equipment..almost all have a weight limit of 250 max..or you have to pay an additional $1,000. crazy...the only people who benefit from work out gear and etc are those who don't have a obese weight issue...so if you really want to fight that fight..rally for companies to make exercise equipment for larger people, and a better price! I still can't help but think...why would this child say this after she knows what her family has went through..some people just don't care!

Well... re: LW1, let's not assume her anger is *necessarily* misplaced. If you watch a beloved relative self-destruct, it's actually a perfectly natural response to get angry at that person... for not caring about themselves the way you care about them, for not caring about the fact that they are shortening their lives and will therefore leave you sooner, for the fact that they are decreasing the quality of their life which affects the life you live with them.

There may not be any other reason *at all* for the LW's vitriol other than the fact that she's *angry* her father is not only doing this to himself, but doing this to her, to her mother, to her children. She has a right to those feelings. It may not be the most constructive reaction, but it also doesn't have to be indicative of some other deeper or older problem, either.

They're all grieving for the lost brother, but only her father is grieving in a way that is destructive -- to himself and to others in the family. That is -- regardless of how much sympathy we may have for him -- an inherently selfish act, at a time when perhaps the rest of the family really needed him to grieve with them in a more supportive way. Now, not only are they grieving for a lost brother, but they are anxious about a father who seems to be killing himself slowly via food.

Best thing is for her to find some way of redirecting and transforming her anger (talking to a friend, a pastor, a counselor), so she can get to a space emotionally where she wants to try some of the suggestions being offered to her. Otherwise, she's unlikely to do anything other than continue to resent the damage that her father is doing to himself and, by extension, to the rest of her family.

Um, LW2, have you ever thought you might be just a wee bit paranoid? With "grown children and grandchildren" you must have been married at least 30 years, yet you say you have not trusted your husband since a family member told you had cheated on you with a "girl" (girl!) he knew before you were married. So you have not trusted your husband, possibly for decades, based on the hearsay and gossip of "one" person? That's it? You have not one shred of evidence that he has ever cheated, other than what sounds like a bad joke when he was drunk and a statement made in retaliation after you accused him of cheating. By the way, exactly how often do you accuse him of cheating? Every time he goes out? Because you would think after all these years of him cheating, you would have at least one single, solitary SHRED of EVIDENCE that he actually was. So why don't you either pee or get off the pot? Hire someone to follow him and see (or do it yourself, for Pete's sake) and either get the proof you need, or stop accusing him of cheating. To be accused of cheating for 30 years when you're not is abusive. And if he is cheating, well you can stop guessing about it and do something about it.

Re: Janie
YAY!!!! way to go, Janie taking ownership of your health. I have faith you will do what you set out to do. Keep us posted on your progress.

I agree with your points made. I got slammed a couple of weeks ago on Abby over at ya hoo because I commented that advice columnists need to stop suggesting AA/Alanon every time an alcoholic beverage is mentioned in a letter. And then here I go suggesting a 12 Step program today! I actually cringed typing that!!! In my defense, here's my reasoning. There is no indication that this is new behaviour, but there is a possibility that the existing poor eating behavior worsened after the death of the son in Afghanistan. The line " But Dad is eating himself to death." made me think that this is grief based behavior (probably worse than it was before), so I suggested grief counseling FIRST and also OA as the program in my understanding of it works on the emotional issues behind overeating. Having not gone through it though, I'm certainly no expert.

Blenie: We have given some good concrete suggestions to the LW (grief counseling, Alanon) so I think maybe you need to read through the comments more completely.

I absolutely disagree with your comment "Killing yourself with food, breaking furniture and showing her kids it's okay to act in such an unhealthy fashion is no different than any other addict". No no no. Maybe you've never been around a drug addict before? I certainly hope not, because I can tell you from personal experience that a drug addict jonesing for a fix is quite possibly the nastiest most desperate animal on the planet. Ever been around someone on a three day bender? Man, all you have to do is go to any bar to see that alcohol severely impairs a person's ability to even speak! Overeaters are still able to think correctly, drug addicts and drunks are not.

As for the example for the kids: I've always looked at this type of thing as a teaching tool for my daughter. For example, when she was little, a man came into her daycare to pick up his son (one of my daughter's friends). My daughter (4 at the time) wrinkled her nose when introduced to the father of her friend and said "You smell nasty" (the man was a smoker). After sitting her down and telling her that wasn't nice to say, her day care provider and I also said, so you think he smelled nasty? that's because he smokes. Do you want to smell nasty? no? then don't smoke.

Re: Mike H
Thanks, Mike. You phrased it better than I probably would have done.

Re: grieving overweight mom

Thank you for your insight, and I am sorry to hear about your loss. I do hope that in time your heart will begin to heal.

But don't rely on treadmills and equipment to begin losing weight, if that is what you wish to do. Use those wondrous things called legs - they're free, and they come pre-installed :). At 400 pounds you are carrying enough that even getting up, sitting down, getting up, sitting down a few times is a workout. Use your body to exercise and you will benefit even more from each and every move you make.

I wish you all the best! It's not an easy journey, but it is very rewarding.

Re: sarah morrow
You're right of course, but he refuses to be drawn into activities "that will remind him it's good to be alive" - if he is that depressed, he likely doesn't think it feels so good to be alive. Enlisting the mother's help to get him to see a doctor would be the first step, but I frankly doubt he won't resist that also (and probably has already), because he knows damn well what the doctor will be saying.

It would be great if she could disengage emotionally, but... this is easier said than done. Especially with a father, where the emotional attachment runs even deeper than with a husband.

And please... I know you used to work as therapist, and so you feel you know what you're talking about but... stop depicting anti-depressant medication as the essence of evil. Nothing is ever all black or all white and, for the people for whom it works, it can be the difference between life and death.

@Chris
"it's obvious from your letter that you have issues with your father that go way beyond his weight or eating habits."
Obvious from what? Where did you get that from? I see nothing but complaints about his eating habits and related weight and problems in there.

Unaddressed grief is more than likely the primary cause of the father's depression, but the LW doesn't specify exactly when the brother died. The US are barely getting out of Iraq after ten years or warring. Daddy could very easily have gained 200 pounds in ten years - or in 8 or in 5, for that matter.

@Zoe
"Your letter just reeked of resentment and anger."
Yes, it did, and it's normal.

Watching someone you love destroy himself and stubbornly refuse any help, while there is nothing, nothing, NOTHING you can do, is incredibly frustrating and painful, and one of the worst things I've personally gone through. The helplessness you feel is more than enough to generate anger all by itself, you don't need unresolved grief or underlying issues with the person to add to it. It's called "helpless rage" and I pray you never get to know firsthand what it's like.

@Nod
I don't even know if tough love would make a difference. There are cases where it actually makes it worse. Withholding the grooming help will only make him stink. For the wife to stop buying anything fattening will only succeed in putting HER on a diet, which may not be in her best interest - we don't know her own situation, some people need to gain weight, not lose. And it won't stop him from eating, he'll only go out to get it or and worse yet, order it in. All food joints and grocery stores deliver.

And that's the thing here: I'm sure many things have been tried, which is why the LW mentioned what he does with a salad. But nothing works, there is nothing to do, nothing to do, nothing to do - which is why the LW is so angry. Partsmom says, poor fella. Yes, poor fella. But poor daughter too. She's watching the father she loves slowly destroy himself and there is nothing she can do. People who haven't been through that have no idea of her pain. It's TORTURE.

The Annies did have it right for once - working on the grief and depression angle has a better chance of success, and medication might be the lesser of several evils here, at least to start with. But if he resists even that...

If someone out there has a miracle cure to get people resisting help to start accepting it, I would sure love to hear it, and I'd be the first one to use it on the ex-LOML.

@Janie
YAY for you! What about swimming? You weight a lot less in water and so the effort is easier. Could be added to the 10-minutes walk!

@Grieving overweight mom
I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child as I have never experienced it myself. My condolences for your loss.

But you, try to imagine the pain of losing a father to something that could have been avoided. Try to imagine losing the son you're grieving, not to what actually killed him, but because he was destroying himself...ever so slowly, with you watching every minute and inch of the downhill slope, unable to do anything to stop it, because he AB-SO-LU-TE-LY refused to help himself?

*I* can't begin to describe the emotional torment of that - do you want your children to go through that? The daughter is not being insensitive, she is grieving in advance, and she is angry because she feels so helpless.

Please. The fact that gym equipment for people over 250 pounds is prohibitively expensive is not the reason you can't lose weight. There are other means available, as Janie highlighted. Use them, before your entourage is forever deprived of you like you are of your son. Then they will be grieving two people instead of one - do you really want that for them?

Thanks for the support, guys! :)

Obese grandmother, I can't imagine how deep you feel the loss of your son, but I am terribly sorry that it happened. Trust me, I understand the lure of food to comfort you, though. My mom is also a food addict, and she's also my inspiration for eating healthier.

One of the things that I have done to try to do more exercise is do DVDs. I'm too self-conscious to go to a gym (5'4, 285 pounds), and when I did go to the gym to lose weight in the past, I would become so addicted to that high that I would spend 2-3 hours there a night for a few months, then get burned out. At least with the exercise DVDs, they are a set time (typically 15-60 minutes) and you're done. Another thing I have done is simply march in place while watching my favorite TV shows, including pumping my arms. Tonight, it's still supposed to be fairly warm where I am (Western TN), so I'll take a walk around the neighborhood at a reasonable pace that I know I can keep up with.

What we have to remember is a) this truly is a DIY project: you have to be ready to make that committment to change your life; b) it's going to take time. We didn't get this big overnight, so we're not going to lose the weight overnight. What I do in order to help cope with this is focus on making my daily goals for my food intake and exercise are met and I don't have a scale in my apartment (I have to go to my doctor every month for medication monitoring, so that's where I get weighed). That way, I don't obsess over whether or not I'm making progress: I'm just making sure that I am doing what I can today to be healthy.

Best of luck to you, and please know that you're not alone. :)

-J

@Janie -- Just wanted to chime in with a "Way to Go!" for working on your weight and fitness! A friend of mine lost more than 100 pounds by dancing. She used to love WATCHING people line dance or ballroom dance, and finally decided that if she liked watching it so much, she ought to try DOING it. At first, of course, she was awkward and got winded easily, but she was amazed at how quickly the pounds started coming off and how quickly her fitness started building up. That said, as others have noted, walking is excellent exercise and has the benefit of being something you can do without joining a gym, playing for a class, etc. I coach marathon and triathlon and can attest that swimming really is one of the absolute best types of exercise out there -- but the logistics of getting to a pool, etc., can make it a difficult option for some. Still, the benefit of being able to get in a total body workout without all the "pounding" of running (and even walking) is huge. However you decide to go about it, kudos to you for making the effort!!

@grieving overweight mom -- you have enough real reasons to be sad and mad, so I don't want to pile on, but as Lise noted, please don't use the expense of weight equipment and the difficulty of finding workout garb as an excuse to skip trying to improve your health and fitness. First of all -- and again, I truly don't mean for this to be judgmental or condescending -- you didn't get to be 400 pounds overnight, and I imagine you were pretty significantly overweight when you hit 250 pounds. Had you started to try to lose weight when you were 200 pounds, I have a feeling you'd have found some other excuse for not exercising. As another poster already noted, you do not need fancy gym equipment to exercise. And, for that matter, you don't need fancy exercise clothing, either. Are those things helpful? Of course, but not required. I am truly, truly sorry for your loss, and I cannot begin to imagine what you are going through. I only respectfully and compassionately suggest you accept that one of your primary barriers to losing weight isn't the fitness industry, society or anything other yourself. Take ownership of your body and your health and start doing something about it.

Concerning Disgusted by the Glutton whose father was “eating himself to death” after loosing a son in Afghanistan.

The family could benefit from talking together with a family therapist about the loss of their son/brother. Taking is better than medication as a first response to grief.

Hoosier Mom

LW1 - I agree that compulsive eating is an addiction. I've struggled with it most of my life. In my case I've found certain foods trigger it, so I avoid them for the most part, though some I keep going back to cyclically. Stress is also a huge factor; my therapist is teaching me about practicing mindfulness. I was also doing better when I was on the treadmill and doing 5Ks last year, then I fell off of that a couple months ago after I got sick a few times, so now I need to push myself to work my way back up again.

That said... the family can change to healthy foods in the house and encourage healthier choices by example when eating out all they want, but folks need to bear in mind that he can still find his "fix" elsewhere. My mother made sure the kitchen had healthy food all the time when I was a kid, but I still rode my bike or walked down to the convenience store for my junk food!

It only got worse after I got my driver's license... and back then I had time to be physically active all the time, and continued to be in college, where I had to do a lot of walking between buildings and dorms to get to where I needed to go, so in essence I got away with my compulsions. Once I married my ex and had my firstborn, though, that all changed and it caught up to bite me in the butt - and apparently, when compulsive eating bites your butt, it causes massive swelling.

I also agree that OA may not be the answer. There's a format called "90 Day" that is particularly controlling, and dare I say even cult-like. Their meetings were the first ones I attended when I knew little about them and let me tell you, that was not a good experience.

I think trying to adhere to what they believe to fix my problem also delayed my seeking out therapy and getting diagnosed and treated for PTSD, because I thought if I just did the steps and what-not, I'd be okay. Also, given the weight gain I experienced after I developed hypothyroid and didn't know what was wrong, I'm glad I wasn't in OA when that happened because I think I'd have beaten myself up more than I already did. On that note, I think LW1's father would benefit from grief therapy a lot more at this point, especially if his eating problems started following his son's death and are therefore in direct correlation.

Janie - Let me add another "way to go!" Keep it up!

Grieving overweight mom - I know how you're feeling. I've never been at your weight but I did hit 220 pounds at one point and have been at 200 pounds more than once. I also felt helpless when I was obese. But you know what... I have been able to lose the weight, I'm struggling right now some but each time my eating starts to escalate, I'm a little better at reigning it in.

Don't let the voices inside that are saying "you can't" discourage you. I know the deep shame you're feeling and how crippling it is. If you can't silence that on your own, talk to a counselor. You deserve to be free of those imprisoning thoughts and feelings, and to get your life back.

LW2 - I agree with Chris' assessment of your husband. He is a selfish... jerk (trying to clean up my language). You have to decide what you're willing to tolerate given the only person who can change his behavior is him, and if you're grandparents by now, chances are he's perfectly comfortable being who he is and will be the remainder of his days.

In the meantime, get tested for STDs. It sounds like you can't trust his word any further than you can throw him.

LW1 - This poor man lost a child. I don't wish that on anyone. I think it's pretty obvious that he's handling his grief by eating. Everyone handles grief differently. Some eat, some can't eat, some drink, some become angry at the world and take it out on others, etc. I have no doubt this man is hurting inside from the loss of his son and his is how he is dealing with it. Please be sympathetic towards him. Talk to him about seeing a grief counselor together. If he refuses to get any help, just be there for him.

Perhaps he's eating so much because he "wants" to have a heart attack and go and be with his son. I feel bad for this man.

Re: Grieving overweight mother - I am so very sorry for your loss.

LW2 - Your husband is cheating on you and has been for a long, long time. The first thing you need to do is get yourself tested for STDs. You said you don't want to leave...why? Why stay and be treated like garbage? But if you stay, don't ever have sex with him again knowing he's getting it from God only knows where. You need to protect yourself. And if you do stay, look at him as a roommate and nothing else. But really...you should call a divorce lawyer.

When the Annies said, Perhaps when you stop paying attention to his nocturnal wanderings, he'll lose interest in them, as well" did they mean that he'd stop cheating if she stopped bringing it up? If that's what they meant, then they are out of their minds!! A cheater will not stop cheating just because their spouse doesn't bring it up.

Re: PS
"and apparently, when compulsive eating bites your butt, it causes massive swelling."
LOL!

Re: PS
"and apparently, when compulsive eating bites your butt, it causes massive swelling."

LOVE IT! Thanks for the giggle. :)

@grieving overweight mom-
I was thinking along the same lines as Lisa. Your son died three years ago. It's hard to believe you went from 150 or whateve to 400 in that amount of time. I think too that you were probably significantly overweight to begin with, and losing your child is another excuse not to do something about it.

LW1 - Dad is grieving his dead son & trying to eat his pain and his feelings. It isn't working. Going to the doctor might be a good first step, but drugs aren't going to be the only answer. There's no quick fix for feeling sad because your child is dead. Dad needs to find a different way to work through his sorrow, and it's different for everyone. A doctor might put him on that path, or maybe a grief counselor or his clergy person. Until he works out the root problem, i.e. his grief, diet & exercise aren't going to 'fix' him. As for the LW - she needs to accept that what other people eat or what they weigh is none of her business. Unless she just hates fat people, she needs to figure out & articulate why she is so angry with her dad. I don't think it's because he ate her kids' lunch snacks. Maybe she's mad because he's being a bad dad & grand dad right now by showing more interest in food than in her & her kids. Maybe she's jealous that he gets to wallow in his grief for her brother & she doesn't have that luxury because she has to be a mom to her kids. Maybe she feels like he loved the brother more than her, since her brother's being dead trumps her being alive, and her dad is more sad that brother is dead than happy that she & the grandkids are still here. Whatever. She needs to figure out why she is so mad about his being fat. If she just hates fat people, then she should imagine that one of her children died, write down all the great coping strategies that would make her feel better quickly, and share those with her dad.

Re: kai archie

"she needs to figure out & articulate why she is so angry with her dad. I don't think it's because he ate her kids' lunch snacks."
No, it would have little to do sith the kids' snacks, that would just be the embodiment of an irritant. But helplessness can easily translate into anger especially, as Mike H pointed out, there is an element of selfishness in someone who wilfully destroys himselfs and categorically refuses help. The message is, "I don't care about the grief I'm causing by my antics, I don't care if you end up missing me after I'm dead, I don't care about anyone's feelings except my own, I DON'T CARE, get it? And I'm gonna wallow in my self-pity if I waaaaant to, boo-hoo-hoo, poor little me, FY, BUZZ OFF!"

I understand he lost a son and all that, but he's not the only one who did. His wife lost a son also, and she's not subjecting her entourage to that. Worse yet, she's subjected to HIM!

The LW sees all that - that's enough to be angry about.

Re: C Meier

I think going down this path is rude. It IS possible to gain that kind of weight in a couple of years or even LESS. Especially if you have a really traumatic life experience.

Grieving overweight mom: I will tell you from my own experience that I gained weight when my husband started to beat me up. that was MY trauma. I gained 25 lbs in one MONTH so yes, C Meier it can happen. IF you are determined to kill yourself with food (a socially acceptable drug), you can do it pretty easily. Stop moving. Keep eating. Bring on those chocolate milkshakes!

I got the weight off after I left my husband, but will tell you, it's a struggle TO THIS DAY not to relapse back into comfort eating when bad things happen. it's hard to wake up and not just say screw it,, I can't go on and I'll just sit here and eat. it's a slippery slidy landscape that half the country is on. Read the NEWS! We have people who are incredibly overweight in this country. Diabetes, a disease that was intermittent 50 years ago, is now an epidemic!!

Overweight grieving mom should not be faulted or judged (and yes it does come across as that) because she got on that slippery slope. Before you know it, 25 lbs can be 40 which can be 100. What OGM needs is encouragement. Look at Janie! (our hero!) She's taking SMALL steps to increase her strength. that's what it's about.

And OGM? I can't image the pain you have gone through. But I can tell you this. The people around you, even here, care about your health and as Mike H. said, watching you slowly is killing THEM. I get it, and so many others out there do as well. Please take the baby steps Janie is doing, keep us posted here. I think you'll find that even though we can be a pretty snarky bunch at times, we will champion you throught this.

PS: Remember to be good to yourself through the process! Make it FUN! It can be fun to play and lose weight, even if all you do at the end is paint your fingernails. Make it fun :)

To those choosing to use water therapy for weight loss, it is most wonderful. Mis-information for this is YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A SWIMMER.
Your energy level is so enhanced as you don't feel like you worked out. You are 1/10 your body weight in the water. You can do all sorts of exercises in the water from cardio/aerobics, to treading water or just water jogging distance or in place. YOU CHOOSE. I find that the deeper I go to work out (in addition to my lapping) the more of my body benefits. Instead of lifting weights over my head at home and becoming fatigued easily, in the water, there are water weights--different density of foam--that you push into the water. The denser the foam, the harder to do. Not only is your time in the water mutiplied x 3 of what it would be at a gym/home, but your body, joints, etc benefit so greatly. 20 minutes of weight 'pushing' is 60 minutes of it otherwise. Same if you water jog/jump--I can't run out of the water, but I sure can in the water. Resistance is at a 12 x more in the water. Our water temp in our public pool we use is 87 degrees. Wonderful.
We have many who are of all ages that have weight or health as issues, strokes, heart attacks, surgery, etc that use the other side of the pool that I also do my laps in at the same time. Your health insurance may cover, and for sure it is a medical tax deduction.
Another MIS conception is that in order to go, you must loose weight to get in a swim suit. If you have so suit, a pair of shorts and a tshirt are often the apparel worn. Suits are expensive--but there are many places that sell the large size you would need. Do not be afraid, come on in, the water is fine. I started 1989 after I had my left leg rebuilt--new screws added. It was about 12 years down the way that I started to do distance lapping--.75 to 1 mile at a time. It took a while to rebuild my left leg and then followed up with the right in 1997. Best physical and mental health therapy I could ever dream of.

Haha L2's husband sounds funny, if u can do better then do so, but i doubt u will because you've been with him for this Long & delt with it... Bet cause he's a great provider, good dad n u Love his jerk-Like ways?.. deaL with then, atleast he favors u amongst all women since your the one with the kids & ring** or go do better if u can?

@nanchan, thanks for yesterday's message! I missed it at first because of the time difference (still in Asia) but we'll be flying home late Saturday night.

Some posters are assuming that it's the loss of LW1's brother as the SOLE reason for her father's weight gain and apparent self-destructive behavior. I can certainly understand the devastation that losing a child can bring to a person but I don't interpret the weight gain and self-destructive eating as a direct result of the death. It has definitely played a role, doubtless lead to depression and hopelessness and is exacerbating the problem, but I doubt it's THE reason. From the LW's account, I interpret that her father's overweight and general self-neglect has been a problem for years and she's venting about it because she experienced the results first hand. The gluttonous eating at the restaurant, the sneaking her kids' snacks, the breaking of her furniture, the excuses for not exercising, his stubbornness. It goes on and on. I agree with nanchan that LW1's letter dripped with anger, criticism and judgment and lacked any compassion or indeed any hint of love for her father. This woman is pissed off and her letter is the sort of venting that comes from years of pent up anger and resentment. Her father embarrasses and disgusts her and his behavior has reached a crescendo that prompted her to finally write for advice. The bottom line is that the LW cannot control her father, or her mother for that matter (clearly an enabler); she can only control herself and how she responds to her father. While all the suggestions BTL for her father on how he can take better care of himself are good ones, he's not the one who wrote in for advice. The LW can either accept her father for who he is while refusing to enable his poor choices when he visits (e.g., supply only healthy foods and provide energetic activities) or she can bitch and moan to her father until she loses all credibility and pushes him out of her life forever. Either way, the onus is on her to figure out how she can best deal with her father.

To those who have asked me to stop posting that antidepressants are bad... the truth is that they are harmful drugs that are criminally over-prescribed. It's true that all drugs have side effects, but the side effects of these monstrous drugs include psychosis, and homicidal and suicidal thoughts and behaviors. The news in this country is getting more and more bizarre... people murdering themselves, their spouses and children in more and more bizarre and horrific ways. Time after time, the truth is coming out that anti-depressants were a contributing factor.

I am not totally opposed to their use under all circumstances. Just as I am personally opposed to abortion but totally support abortion rights, I support the right of patients to choose to use antidepressants (though I would always counsel patients to consider natural alternatives... there are MANY alternatives that effectively treat depression without these side effects!) What I do object to are hacks like advice columnists routinely diagnosing people based on letters from their relatives and other associates, and suggesting as the Annies did today that pharmaceutical antidepressants are the answer.

To those who have asked me to stop posting that antidepressants are bad... the truth is that they are harmful drugs that are criminally over-prescribed. It's true that all drugs have side effects, but the side effects of these monstrous drugs include psychosis, and homicidal and suicidal thoughts and behaviors. The news in this country is getting more and more bizarre... people murdering themselves, their spouses and children in more and more bizarre and horrific ways. Time after time, the truth is coming out that anti-depressants were a contributing factor.

I am not totally opposed to their use under all circumstances. Just as I am personally opposed to abortion but totally support abortion rights, I support the right of patients to choose to use antidepressants (though I would always counsel patients to consider natural alternatives... there are MANY alternatives that effectively treat depression without these side effects!) What I do object to are hacks like advice columnists routinely diagnosing people based on letters from their relatives and other associates, and suggesting as the Annies did today that pharmaceutical antidepressants are the answer.

Re: sarah morrow

I do appreciate the clarification on your position, as one of the people who responded to your original post. I also understand the push to go towards more natural remedies; however, they do not go through the testing that manufactured drugs do via the FDA regulations. Granted, I understand that especially in the human testing phase, they tend to skew the test pool to show results in the drug's favor, but the fact that these drugs are regulated vs. natural remedies gives me a bit more peace of mind, especially since I have to take other medications to treat other medical conditions. Plus, with the natural remedies, due to the lack of testing before it goes on the market, there's less information as to what contraindications there may be with other medications.

I am fortunately off the anti-depressants, so it's not an issue that i have to deal with currently, but if I needed them again, I would be headed towards my pharmacy, not the natural remedies aisle.

I'm not saying that natural remedies don't work, but just stating why I choose prescriptions instead.

Re: sarah morrow

Youy are perfectly right that they are shamefully over-prescribed and that the side-effects can be deadly. They can also be a life-saver, and keep in mind that natural or not, everything interacts with whatever else you are and take and that there are side-effects to everything. The "naturalness" of "natural" products is also much overly-touted.

In everything there should be balance and a carefully researched approach. But... most people are not that balamces (never mind the ones in need of medication) and most people don't want to do their own research.

You're also right about the Annies, whose standard approach seems to be a three-pronged devil's pitchfork - get counselling, get medicated and it's because of menopause.

Re: antidepressants vs. "natural" remedies, antidepressants have been a lifesaver for countless people, and should not be dismissed out-of-hand. It is true that one needs to be careful, and there are cases where they should not have been prescribed, but that's why a good relationship with your doctor, including frequent visits when you are beginning a new course of drugs, is important.

Also, natural substances can be just as toxic, if not more so, especially when not used properly. (Arsenic is a perfectly natural substance!)

Re: reasons for dad overeating, there isn't any reason mentioned in the letter as a cause for the behavior, other than depression over his son's death. The most likely scenario (to me) seems to be that he may have had a mild ("less disgusting") weight problem that got out of control after his son's death, to the point where family members like the LW are at their wits' end. Any BTL suppositions that there are other reasons behind this, and behind the daughter's attitude, are simply guesses. Possibly accurate, of course, but with nothing in the actual letter to back them up.

Ultimately, though, the sad truth is the daughter cannot force the father to change, and that's the hardest part of this.

@Janie - Actually, I have been investigating homeopathic practioners to determine whether or not I would try that as an alternative to seeing a traditional doctor for myself. I was surprised to find out that Homeopathic medications ARE regulated by the FDA... not as stringently as pharmaceuticals mind you; but there is some oversight. This is not the case with vitamins and herbal supplements but it is good to know that there are some forms of alternatives that have safeguard measures in place.

@Mike H. - I do agree that natural substances can be toxic - but I don't know of anyone taking arsenic for medicinal purposes (could be possible, I just haven't heard of it). Most of the natural remedies (am not talking about crazy concoctions with unknown ingredients billed as "all natural"; rather pure herbals supplements with known ingredients and quantities) have mild side-effects if any at all and caution should be used and of course they should be researched before taking them. For that matter some vitamins can be toxic in too high doses - in particular ones that are not water soluble and get stored in the body. Also, sure people can have allergic reactions - chamomile for instance is in the ragweed family and anyone who is allergic to ragweed should avoid that herb. And some natural remedies are natural bloodthinners (ginger for example) and can pose a problem for people taking blood thinning medications.

No one should ever just mindlessly take any vitamin, supplement or medication without due diligence and consulting with their doctor and pharmacists. However, most natural remedies are no where near as toxic as pharmaceuticals and are a viable alternative for many people.

Balance is key. Anyone who decides to only rely on pharmaceuticals without considering safer alternatives is just as unwise to me as the person who will only consider alternatives without understanding that sometimes pharmaceuticals are the way to go.

For one example - I took lipitor for years and it did a great job controlling my cholestoral levels. Then I started taking fish oil instead of medication (I was not aware of it's use for mental health at that time, but I had heard that you can take it to control cholesterol levels), I continued to see my physician every three months and had him measure my cholesterol levels - and we both were surprised to find that my cholesterol was well managed without the medication and only taking the supplement. But my levels were only elevated slightly - I would never tell someone to stop take cholesterol medication without working with their physician to see if an alternate solution works for them - that could be a dangerous gamble for someone else.

The daughter condemning her father for his weight issue looks to me like a more deepseated problem, perhaps rooted in jealousy over her father's grieving for her brother which means that she got a lot less attention than the family hero and perhaps lived in his shadow while he was alive as well. Maybe she always felt neglected by dad. Her descriptive words--disgusting, obese, enough food for three people, drenching with dressing, indicate relationship issues. She wants to control her father and punish him for loving her brother best and would do so by dieting him and forcing him to exercise if she could find a way to get him under her control. She does not want to understand the depth of his anguish over losing what may well have been his only son. I saw no love for her father.
The writer needs to woman up and love her father instead of hating on him for his disabilty, help him when he needs it, including cutting his toenails, and perhaps research some help for him, not for his weight problem, but for his grief, maybe even carry him to a support group every week. Teh eating disorder is just a sympton. Pills don't solve grief. Talking it out with people who know how you feel can. Perhaps she can take a cue from her mother who, through all this, has stayed with him. There must be a reason.

Re: happymom Good answer. But I disagree with the idea that the loss of a pet is always less traumatic. After 8 months I am still greiving for my dog, Pig, who died at age 16 last April. He had gotten me through Hurricane Katrina. The only sanity I felt in the six weeks in the shelter was when I was with him. A friend at church saw her favorite dog hit by a truck when he got out of the fence and had a heart attack. My pastor was grieving for weeks after his dog died and put up a little shrine with his picture and ashes that helped him get through it. A loss is loss and we all grieve differently and some to a greater degree than others. They say that the loss of a child is the worst kind a parent can have, but that does not negate the suffering of other losses.

"Tough love" is often just an excuse for washing your hands of someone you really did not care much about in the first place. Do you want Daddy to be stinky as well as fat? He will get yeast in his fat rolls that will lead to a staph infection and fall and break his hip when he trips over his long toenails. So called "toughlove" is often not love at all but controlling another human being. It is disrespectful. It is often based in hate. Occasionally it is necessary, as with drug addicts so they will hit bottom, but you have to recognize that the bottom might not turn out to be what you want---recovery, but what you dread most if you really are "loving" and not just "tough", death.

LW1: You can't change people. I would suggest taking food out of the equation. Don't share meals with him. Maybe if you don't have to watch him eat you'll be less disgusted.

LW2: Why did you write in? What do the Annies think about what? I'm confused. So, you're staying with a cheater - good for you. I hope if you ever have sex with him you are smart enough to make him wear a condom or two. Oh, and the Annies advice was damn stupid. His cheating has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him so ignoring it will not make him lose interest in it. Damn stupid advice but funny.

LW2
You say your first intimation of his poor qualities is that a family member “told me he was cheating on me with a *girl* he knew”. I assume this means early in your marriage. This must have been bothering you for a long time, as you now have grandchildren. You have deferred initiating any behaviour modification (for either of you) for so long that you feel stuck with your decision. Fair enough, stop whinging and do as you please, ignoring your husband.
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