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Courtesy Call

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Dear Annie: A while ago, my husband, my adult son and I attended a family function in a different city. My husband left for home a day earlier, so my son and I ended up sharing a room before our early-morning flight. That night there was a party to which he was invited.

I had a wonderful evening on my own. But by 2:30 a.m., my son still had not returned and there were no messages. I texted him, saying I hoped he was not wrapped around a tree. A few minutes later, he replied, saying he was on his way back.

The next morning, he could not understand why I was upset that he didn't let me know when he planned to come home, nor was he willing to apologize for making me worry. He said he doesn't let his girlfriend know if he's going to be out late, so why should he tell me?

I think this is a basic lack of courtesy. But a friend of mine says I'm expecting too much, and that this is how today's young adults function. I need to add that I think the world of my son. He's funny, smart, loving and easy to talk with. So, Annie, am I expecting too much? — Wondering in Santa Fe, N.M.

Dear Santa Fe: No. Although your son is not obligated to tell you his whereabouts on a regular basis, it is a matter of consideration to do so when he is staying with you, since you would otherwise worry. He sounds like a great kid, so we are sure if you explain this to him, he will try harder not to cause needless anxiety to those he cares about.

Dear Annie: My husband's daughter is gay, and his late uncle, who was like a father to him, was also gay.

My husband's two sisters ostracized their uncle and have no contact with his daughter, which has created a lot of resentment. My husband has not spoken with his sisters in years, but one sends an annual Christmas card with family photos.

They refuse to apologize or change and see no reason to try.

I think deep inside, my husband would like to have a relationship with his sisters. He believes family is important. But he thinks all psychologists are charlatans and would definitely refuse to get counseling. Do you see any hope for this sad state of affairs? — Feeling for Him

Dear Feeling: You cannot change anyone without their cooperation. There is no magic solution to these painful situations. Your husband has the choice of accepting his sisters as they are or leaving things estranged. Your job is to help him understand this, and then be supportive of whatever decision he makes.

Dear Annie: I read your answer to "Devastated and Frustrated," whose daughter-in-law treats her like dirt. I don't understand why you often tell the parents to "play nice." Why on earth should they? This daughter-in-law is a selfish, passive-aggressive, vindictive person.

My heart goes out to this mother who is unable to visit her grandchildren. Since when is it so bad to drop in on your kids? Yet it's OK for them to ask for money? The daughter-in-law is doing those grandchildren a disservice by not allowing them to see their grandparents. One day, they will understand that there are two sides to every story. You certainly should have at least told that daughter-in-law to play nice with her husband's parents. — Mrs. R.

Dear Mrs. R.: The daughter-in-law didn't write to us. While she is not behaving well, neither is "Devastated." In order to see those grandchildren, one of them needs to "play nice," and we can only advise the person who wrote.

Annie's Mailbox is written by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar, longtime editors of the Ann Landers column. Please e-mail your questions to anniesmailbox@comcast.net, or write to: Annie's Mailbox, c/o Creators Syndicate, 5777 W. Century Blvd., Ste. 700, Los Angeles, CA 90045. To find out more about Annie's Mailbox and read features by other Creators Syndicate writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators Syndicate Web page at www.creators.com.

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Comments

19 Comments | Post Comment
@Mrs. R. I don't remember the original letter, so I have no idea whether or not the daughter-in-law or the mother-in-law, or both are behaving badly, but I do take exception to something Mrs. R. says. She says,"Since when is it so bad to drop in on your kids?"
It's not okay to drop in unannounced on anyone, your kids or otherwise. Everyone is entitled to the privacy of their home and has a right to say, "This is not a good time", or at least to be given some notice so that the house can be prepared for visitors.
My mother-in-law also thought it was okay to just drop in. We made an agreement that she had to call and give me 30 minutes notice, and that I could say, "This is not a good time." Once we made these and a few other agreements about how we would be with each other we became good friends.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Connie Tyler
Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:07 PM
Please don't use my name.

After 37 years of marriage I finally got tired of trying to be diplomatic with my mother in law, who was always bad mouthing me and trying to cause problems between my wife and I, so I finally decided to end it. It told her that I would not trade insults with her nor would I argue with her, but that "it is over." She began to argue and I hung up the phone and she called back to argue with the answering machine. Since that time I have not attended any family functions where she might attend and my wife now only sees her mother about twice a year. Her behavior has cost her a lot and our adult chlldren don't want anything to do with her either. She made the choice to be a bitter and lonely old woman.

Signed, "Done Deal"
Comment: #2
Posted by: Gerald Dupree
Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:50 PM
To LW1, if your son is such a wonderful person, and I'm sure he is, he should not object to a friendly "reminder" that it is very natural for mothers to worry sometimes, especially when spending time together. So have a nice talk with him about not leaving you a note or some other way of letting you know that he'd be back late. To Connie Tyler, your arrangement with your mother-in-law sounds good, except we know that all in-laws are "willing" to be agreeable, even when the suggestion makes a lot of sense (as did yours). To "Done Deal", if you don't want your name used, you will have to sign in with a fictitious name. You may also put in your just a first name, or name with initial, you do not have to sign in with your first and last name together.
Comment: #3
Posted by: Jean
Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:49 AM
Oops...in my post, that sentence should have read "except we know that all in-laws are NOT willing to be agreeable" Typo!
Comment: #4
Posted by: Jean
Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:58 AM
LW1: I think it would have been more rude of the adult son to call his mother at 2:30 a.m. to tell his mother that he was still out. If she was worried she could have texted him and he could have responded....wait, that's exactly what happened. I don't understand why she's upset.
Comment: #5
Posted by: Gerhardt
Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:57 AM
LW1: I think that it would have been rude of her son to call at 2:30 a.m. to say he was still out. He would have awakened most people, and if LW1 was worried she could have texted him and he could have responded to assure her that all was well...wait, that's exactly what happened. I don't understand why she's upset.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Gerhardt
Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:00 AM
LW1: My son is 44, we shared a room while traveling and the samething happened to me, he went out for a few hours knowing we had to get up early, I couldnl't sleep until he came back...
Comment: #7
Posted by: Diana
Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:19 AM
It's true that in many places, "young people" -- or older people, for that matter -- often have more options available when going out than they did 30, 40 or 50 years ago, and so when someone goes out for the night, they may not honestly know when they'll be home. Maybe if the party's great, they stay -- if it's not, maybe they go to a late movie. Maybe they go to a 24-hour restaurant to catch up with an old friend or keep talking to a new one.

It's also true that young people don't get why parents worry so. Especially if the young have never experienced car breakdown or accident, or been a victim of crime.

I don't think it's reasonable for parents to expect that their kids will automatically anticipate their worry -- from the kids' experience, the whole issue sounds very much like curfew and control. But it IS reasonable to expect that grown kid who is bunking with a parent to send a message IF that parent has explained, in advance, "I know you're an adult, and that you're responsible -- but please remember that moms always worry that the worst has happened. Please text me at midnight and let me know if you have an ETA yet. And understand that if I text you, it's not because I'm checking to see what you're doing or with whom -- it's only to see that I don't need to start calling area hospitals."

\
Comment: #8
Posted by: hedgehog
Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:06 AM
Without knowing what the conversation was before LW1's son left for the evening, it's hard to say whether LW1 was worrying too much. If her son said "I'm going to a party, I'll be back late", she should have considered herself notified. When she got worried, she texted him, and he responded. That seems reasonable.

If, however, she expected her son back before, say, midnight, he should have called his mom, or texted her (that would be a way to silently contact her, knowing she will get the message IF she checks her phone).

All in all I think Mom is worrying too much. He went to a party and responded and came home when she texted him. He should have been more open to her comments the next morning though because I for one don't like the sound of "I don't tell my girlfriend if I'm going to be out late so why should I tell you?" although I suspect that Mom may be embellishing his tone a little bit and he may have said something along the lines of "GF doesn't worry when I'm out and expects me to be back late, so I didn't think to contact you".
Comment: #9
Posted by: Zoe
Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:08 AM
Isn't the reason most people have a cell phone glued to their hand is so that they can be reached at a moment's notice? LW1 became worried about her son's whereabouts and texted him. When he received her text, he returned home. What's the problem?

LW2's husband's family sound like throwbacks from the 50s. Why would she or her husband want anything to do with people who shun others who don't conform to their idea of normal? Family or not, these sisters sound like vile bigots and I personally wouldn't want them around, especially if they treated my daughter so disrespectfully. LW2 should urge her husband to answer the age old Ann Landers question: "are you better off with or without..." I think he'll discover he's better off without these judgmental people in his life.
Comment: #10
Posted by: Chris
Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:46 AM
LW2 These relatives are disrespecting his daughter and their late uncle. Because it is a two against one it is easier. They still have THEIR sibling support and cutting one from the family is easy for them. Should one of them be ostracized from the pact I think the response would be a real eye-opener. HIs wanting to have a relationship with them is a decision that may cause great hurt to his daughter and his relationship with her. Standing tall for his most loving late uncle and daughter is an easy choice for some and harder for others. He needs to remember who it is that stood tall for him. The sisters were the ones who made the decision to cut family ties. Maybe the wife needs to confirm that he IS truly longing for this reunion before she offers any advice. Christmas cards sounds like a nice gesture on his part...nothing else is needed.
Comment: #11
Posted by: Penny
Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:33 AM
Re: The poor man who did't want his name used...
Comment: #12
Posted by: Maria
Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:06 AM
LW1 - Nothing in her letter says whether or not they discussed a plan of communication ahead of time to check in with each other at some point. "Son, so that I don't have to worry about you, as I tend to do as your Mom, would you be willing to text me around, say, 11pm, just to let me know you're all right and I can sleep?" How hard is that? Not very, IMO. Would have saved her a lot of huffing, puffing, and the need to write in to an advice columnist, yes?

LW2 - I like both what the Annies and Chris said. The old "Are you better off with or without" question is still some of the best advice around.

I can't remember exact details, but I did an activity a long time ago along the lines of Ann Landers' question that's a "pros and cons" type of list. In one column you write down what you stand to gain or lose if you keep/reconcile the relationship, and in the other, what you could gain or lose if you don't. It's helps sort things out based on facts rather than emotional influences, and helps you make a solid choice on what to do from here. Maybe the LW's husband could try this if he really is debating this.

LW3 - What would you propose? That the MIL be nasty too? Two wrongs don't make a right, and sometimes you have to take the higher ground so you don't shame yourself, and the other person doesn't have "ammo" to use later. As it is, even if the Annies told the DIL to play nice, she might not recognize herself in the column or even read it.

Also, yes it is wrong to drop in on your grown children unannounced, even to see the grandkids. They're adults too and therefore equal , like it or not, meaning they have the right to privacy and individuated boundaries.

As Jean stated some family members can't play nice, while as Connie stated there are those who can. Which camp are you in?

Gerald - Um, you kind of gave away your own name there... as it is the Annies don't really read the Comments forum. I suggest creating a new account with an anonymous handle for future posts. I don't recommend "GD" as some folks use that as an abbreviation for a common swear term (G** D***), and we might guess who you are now that we know your name :-)

That said I understand your decision. DH and I are full up with my MIL and have distanced ourselves. She's apologized and acknowledged some things, but we've seen that before and it's only a matter of time after she gets back in people's good graces before she starts again.

It's amazing how much our stress has gone down - even our child's - since we've limited our contact with her. I may visit my ILs with my family for Christmas, but at that, I'm hoping DH and I can agree on an "escape plan" if things escalate.
Comment: #13
Posted by: PS
Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:07 AM
Re: the son who didn't call or text his mother to say he'd be in late, it's totally the mother's issue not his; he was under no obligation to. The LW needs to remember that he's a grown man and it's time to stop hovering and worrying about him. The fact that they were sharing a hotel room doesn't make him an infant again. The Annies should have told her to ease up and back off, and get over it.

Re: Feeling For Him, my advice would be even more strongly, to back off. Too many spouses with too much time on their hands start worrying about their husbands' or wives relationships with siblings, parents, etc. (Usually, for some reason, it's women who fall into this, worrying about their husbands' relationships) The typical pattern at that point is to become meddlesome and try to "help" push these people together, who often have good reason to not be in communication. This usually leads to blow ups, and sometimes even the end of the marriage. The LW needs to get a life of her own and focus on her own relationships, realize she is off base, and determine to not be a pest or meddle in her husband's relationships.

If it sounds like I'm being too extreme, when I was a therapist I often saw this pattern and its consequences. Someone would come in crying about how her marriage had been ruined because she was "just trying to help." (Usually this was a woman who did not work outside of the home, and had a lot of time on her hands). It became evident after listening to a few of these sob stories that the person who had ruined her own marriage had few relationships of her own and had a meddlesome nature. The meddling and interfering was a form of unpleasant compulsive behavior justified with a vague sense of moral superiority. I worked with one woman who sabotaged three consecutive relationships by acting this way... each time she defended her actions. Some folks don't learn.
Comment: #14
Posted by: sarah morrow
Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:56 AM
With a situation like LW1's, I think clear communication beforehand is key. Doesn't matter if the people are parent/child, spouse/spouse, friend/friend, whatever. Some people are prone to worry and can't sleep until they know the other person is safe. A little consideration and a quick phone call are all it takes.
Comment: #15
Posted by: Van Wickle
Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:38 PM
Re: Mother texting son who was out late. What good would it have done to have him text with an ETA at 11:00 or whatever as many suggested if that's not the time he planned to be back. He could have been perfectly fine at that point and something still have gone wrong later. Yes, calling and waking up the mother would have been inconsiderate also, but what's wrong with the way it played out? The mother didn't tell him he had to come back right now - just let her know that he was OK. It was apparently his choice to return soon.
Comment: #16
Posted by: C Meier
Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:31 PM
Re: LW3's letter & the Annie's advice to the original letter writer.....playing nice will only get you so far. In fact, playing nice could make things worse because the one sucking it up & trying to ignore the unacceptable behavior, nasty behavior of the other party will no doubt be seen as weak or giving in & the original offender will just take their outrageous behavior even farther.
Comment: #17
Posted by: Lucy Ray
Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:17 PM
Sarah Morrow, you are right on target. The phrase that gives away the bad intentions of LW2 is "I think 'deep down' my husband would like to have a relationship with his sisters." In other words, this man has said nothing that indicates he would welcome his judgmental, ostracizing sisters back into his life, but his wife knows better. According to her, "deep down," he wants to spend family time with women who mistreat his daughter, because that's what Feeling For Him thinks he SHOULD want. 'Feeling for Him' has no business deciding that she knows how her husband feels better than he does. It's extremely condescending of her.

Feeling for Him is not just condescending: She is also contemptuous of her husband. There is only one issue described in her letter: the mistreatment of her husband's daughter by her aunts. Her husband has wisely chosen to protect his daughter from these women by cutting off contact with them. But FfH insinuates that his good decision is actually pathological. She WOULD recommend counseling for him, but he doesn't believe in it! Now why does FfH's husband need counseling? To recognize that his good decision was wrong?

But the biggest problem with FfH's letter is the issue she so blatantly leaves out: What happens to her husband's daughter if FfH gets her way? It seems to me that the price of FfH's plan is all on this young woman's back. At best, she'll eventually discover that her father is letting her aunts off the hook, thereby validating their bad behavior. At worst, she'll be insulted to her face at family events. No one else suffers if FfH's husband resumes a relationship with his sisters. Only the daughter.

That's why my advice to FfH would be: "Counseling is a great idea, and you should get some for yourself right away, before your thinly veiled hostility towards your husband's daughter leads him to treat you the way he has treated his sisters."

T
Comment: #18
Posted by: T
Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:16 PM
T, I think your analysis of FfH is right on. Very insightful and probably true.
Comment: #19
Posted by: FAW
Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:12 PM
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