Annie's Mailbox® by Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar

This is absolutely the aunt's business. Most kids are counting before going to preschool and are learning to read in preschool. Yet this girl is 11 and already embarassed about her lack of basic skills. The ladies are assuming that because the aunt says this girl has an excellant memory and is bright that she is going to teach herself the basic skills that kids half her age already know. That's a lot to expect out of a young girl that is already years behind and with parents that do not care. Someone needs to step in and help this girl.

The parents could get into trouble for not providing their daughter with a proper education. It sounds like someone is lying to the education officials. Also, that other person in their home school group should be reported to her supervisors!

I had to add this. The reason they spent the week *teaching* ( also know as their vacation) her about waves and marine animals is because since she is home schooled, all their little trips are tax deductable. In fact I would bet their house payments and utility bills are all tax deductable too.

The aunt should report this to the school system of the county in which her niece lives. I would hope they will require on the spot testing be done and not simply a bogus evaluation by another member of the same group. Child driven curriculum is one thing. That a school system would not require basic reading and math skills is quite another. It's obvious the parents don't see the need for it, and the assertion that this 11-year-old child will have the drive to essentially teach herself these things at a later date is very misguided. She's already embarrassed by the fact that she can't do it now. What makes anyone think she'll be learning this on her own later.
I apologize in advance for the length of this post.
First, lest someone think I'm totally anti-home schooling, let me assure you, I am not. I had some friends who actually did the work involved with schooling their children and that meant taking additional courses themselves in some subjects to be able to do that. I have the highest regard for those particular mothers. Home schooling can be a touchy subject. While my two were growing up, I had numerous friends who home schooled their children. I would say, however, it was more of a babysitting or fun activities club than anything. The home school group would take turns on who would have the group at her house or which one(s) would take the children to the park, beach, or other trips, including theme parks (we live in Florida). My daughter begged me to home school her. I told her NO. I'm not a qualified teacher in all of the subjects she would need, and none of the other parents are, either.
These other mothers were constantly on my case to home school my children as well because "they would be so much better off being at home with friends instead of in school where you have no control over who they are hanging out with." I would always respond, "So, you plan on having control over your kids until what age? 20, 30, 40? My feeling is that children need to learn to function in the outside world, not just our circle of friends. They need to learn how to handle unpleasant situations and how to choose friends who are good for them and how to stand up for themselves." The majority of this particular group had children who ended up with no high school diploma and no desire to get one. Once they reached 16 and had driver licenses, the "teachers/mothers" no longer felt the need to be present and allowed them to form their own groups and make their own trips, but they still turned in reports of so-called curriculum/learning/work.
My niece quit school at 14 under the guise of being homeschooled. My sister worked full time, plus overtime, so she had no time whatsoever to assist with that in a meaningful way. When she got home, she took care of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. Her husband, who never held a job more that a year at most, was unemployed at that time, and 15 years later, still is. My niece, bless her heart, would say that she is doing home schooling, but here's how it was done. Daddy would go out in the yard and putter around in the garden, or tinker around with a couple of junk cars while she would sit in her room reading novels about horses or dogs (she did have basic reading skills). Fast forward to today, we have a 29 year old who has never held a job, does not have a diploma (not even a GED), and the inability to function in the real world. She, too, is a very bright girl. She has said on numerous occasions over the past that she intends on getting her GED and “is studying for it”. She is embarrassed by the fact that she doesn't have that, nor has she ever filled out a job application. She is 29 with no job experience whatsoever, no driver's license (that wasn't part of the “curriculum”) and is incapable of holding an adult conversation. Yes, she's embarrassed. Yes, she would like to learn, but, NO…she doesn't have the drive or ability to do it on her own.
So, I don't see how an 11-year-old girl who cannot do reading or math at her age level is going to progress at all unless someone teaches her to do it. Her parents may have all the degrees in the world, but they obviously don't have the common sense it takes to see that their daughter needs more than they are giving her. At the very least they should hire a tutor who will TEACH her what she needs to know at her grade level. With two Master's Degrees between them, they should be pulling in more than enough money to employ a private tutor. There would still be enough money left over for them to take her to the beach and teach her about waves and sea life.
Oh, and for the home school crowd I knew, many of those mothers discovered what their little darlings were doing the first year they allowed them to go off with one of the kids who had a driver's license, and they decided to put them back in public school. Also, some of them ended up divorced and had to go get full time jobs themselves, so there went home schooling. I felt so sorry for those kids. They were bright enough to be in advanced placement classes, but could barely function in the basic ones because they were never really taught the basics during their home school years.
I agree with Cathy. Someone needs to step in and help this girl.

What is it with the ladies and 'Mind your own business'? This is not the first time I've seen this in their posts. This girl is being neglected in a way that will probably affect her for the rest of her life. Eleven years old and she can't count to 100? Doesn't know how many hours are between 1:00 and 5:00? Would the ladies say 'Mind your own business' of this girl were being denied food or clean clothes? Come to think of it, maybe they would. The aunt should report this. Yes, it will hurt relations with her family but maybe this girl will have a chance to catch up on her education before she ends up being an adult totally dependent upon her parents.

Datura: Yes, it will hurt family relations. Any time any of our family would mention to my sister that her daughter NEEDS to get a GED and get a job, that person would be pretty much cut off from communications. We live on the east coast and they live on the west coast, so it's not like we could have her over often enough to even supplement her pitiful excuse for home schooling. She's living with her parents and my sister gives her money for supposedly working around the house...she makes breakfast for her dad, takes the dogs outside, pulls a few weeds from the garden and sweeps the floor once in awhile. As for the LW's niece, it's pretty sad to have two parents who both have Master's Degrees and not be able to count to a hundred by age 11.

So much fail here. The Annies are so passive it makes reading this column a comic farce (that's why I like it ). Butt out??? This child, quite frankly, is being neglected and deprived. REPORT THE PARENTS. Do it NOW. Child Centric education is fine as an adjunct to the basics of Reading, Writing and Arithmatic. It was never designed to replace basic skills. Rinse and repeat - Report the parents now.
I was impressed, however, that the Annies didn't also add their usual "see a counselor".

The LW should call a meeting with the childs parents and once again explain how the child needs the basics and even ask the child how she feels. THEN TELL THEM they are going to be reported because they love the little girl. Be as kind as possible, so the little girl knows she is loved by all...but REPORT THEM!!!! IT IS CHILD ABUSE!!

If Molly's aunt is not to help her gain the foundation required to obtain an education then who should? The child is embarrassed by her lack of skills and, not surprisingly at age 11, does not know how to obtain them. Is it likely that this child will tell her very educated parents that their teaching skills are failing her? At what age do you think a child should be able to read a book? When should she be able to tell time, make change or complete any of the other requirements of day-to-day life? Is this a child who can function safely or effectively in the world? She needs help and she needs it now. What is most reprehensible is the laissez faire attitude put forth by the writers of this column, Marcy Sugar and Kathy Mitchell. Perhaps it is time that their suitability as keepers of Ann Landers' legacy is re-evaluated.

If Kathy Mitchell and Marcy Sugar keep telling people to butt out, they will end up without jobs because no one will write to them for fear of "butting in."

I am so glad to see that many others feel the ladies were off base with this one. Molly needs help now or she will not become a functioning member of society. I hope the LW reads these comments. I hope the ladies will rethink their answer and publish points from some of these comments.

Just Me: yeah it was long but you had valuable information to offer. I know children who are home schooled who are doing great thanks to dedicated and hardworking parents. Homeschooling can be wonderful if it is done correctly. What is passing for education for Molly is a crime. A crime against her and society as well.

Well, the consensus here seems to be that the parents are being neglectful of their child's education and I have to concur.

In regard to the lw's niece, in order to follow her interests, she needs basic math, reading, writing, and spelling skills. Everyone needs those skills in order to function in our society. If you don't have them, it's unlikely that you'll be able to learn much of anything on your own. Sure it's ok to base your child's education on his/her interests, but those other skills are needed to pursue those interests. It really sounds as though those parents were lazy and neglectful from the word go.

Home schooling doesn't need to be so poor. My nephew's two step sons were home schooled for a couple of years due primarily to problems in the local schools at the time. But both my nephew and his wife are college professors with PhD's and kept careful track of what the kids were doing academically. These home schooled kids were provided with computer programs that included the educational material necessary for their grades and subjects. Their progress was monitored by the public school system as well as their parents. I believe they had to pass exams at the end of each year. Their home schooling began in the later elementary school years; so they already had reading and basic math skills to build on. Their parents also had them enrolled in various sports activities that included other children. They did eventually go back to public school for high school and they were not behind in their studies - probably because the parents kept a close watch on their educational progress while they were home schooled. If parents aren't keeping a close watch as my nephew did, and if the school system (not another parent in the home school program) isn't testing them for their progress, I suspect the education kids are getting from home schooling may be very poor.

As a home schooling mom myself who mixes about 50% child led and 50% guided curriculum, I cannot accept that these parents aren't doing serious damage to this girl. There is no way a neurotypical child could reach 11 yrs old without learning to count to 100. NONE. Either this child is severely learning disabled or the parents are keeping her in a closet with no conversion, toys, interaction, or television/radio. Either way, the child is being neglected severely and the district superintendent should be notified.

It is the state's concern that the niece is not getting an adequate education. Someone is falsifying test results. If a teacher does that in the state of CA, he/she will at the least be fined and may be fired and lose his/her teaching credential. It is never easier to learn to read than before the age of 9.

It amazes me how often these women give out bad advice but the one about the 11 year old was just plain disgusting. This kid can't read or write at age 11 and they think its not only okay but the child's responsibility to teach herself? God, I hope they are not breeding and spreading the stupidity!

Dear Aunt, please step in and save this child from her moronic parents. Yes, it will ruin your relationship with the parents but do you really want to be involved with child abusers anyway?

OMG! I think you girls must have answered this with the intention of creating controversy!! Something is VERY wrong in this household. An eleven year old child who does not have the basic skills to communicate and function in society is being abused. As a teacher myself I can tell you that even in a home school environment, she should have been reading by the time she was five. How is she doing her lessons? Part of the home school curriculum is the basics of reading and writing and math from the very beginning. The local supervisor should have known five years ago that something is very very wrong in this household.

This aunt should take steps immediately to have the authorities intervene. The father's callous reply to, "mind your own business," scares me. A master's degree doesn't doesn't "fix stupid" or abusive. And your suggestion that a child would find out how to read herself is outrageous. She's already so embarrassed she would never ask anyone for help

PLEASE, PLEASE, advise this aunt to ignore her fear that she will be "outed" by the family, call the State Board and let the parents know you are calling Child Protective Services. And keep telling Molly she is loved and cared for.

I think you made a big mistake with your answer on this one. An 11 year old girl is not getting the correct type of education if she can't read, count to 100 or figure out how many hours until mealtime. That's the type of things my public school educated grandchildren could do in the first grade when they were age 6 or 7. The girl's parents are completely neglecting her education. How dare they call a vacation at the beach an educational trip! Bet they used it as a tax write off somehow too. Grrrrrr! How can they be allowed to homeschool? Incompetent public school teachers are fired and that's what these parents deserve. What a farce and the child is the one to suffer. Her aunt sounds like the only person who really cares and you told her to "mind her own business." Wrong answer. Try again please.

This is the first time anything said in this advice column made me annoyed enough to look to see if there was a way to comment of contact the columnists. As a retired teacher/librarian, I was totally horrified by the advice. This child needs help and the only person in her life who has made an attempt to do so is told to butt out? Ouch! Education according to what interests the child at the time is one thing, but there are some subjects that should be learned in sequence. If a student doesn't have the basic building blocks, not much can be built on top of it. If she doesn't get help soon, this child is never going to be able to use much of any other education she might be picking up. Also, some knowledge becomes more difficult to acquire as one gets older, which is why they advocate being exposed to a second language at a young age. This poor child isn't even getting the basics in her own language! The longer this child goes without it, the harder it will be to acquire. She isn't showing signs of wanting to learn and is embarrassed and in denial. Only outside intervention is going to get the process of learning back on track in time to do her any good.
I find myself wondering if this child is getting any time on the Internet (and how she navigates without the necessary skills if so!). Exposure to some of the tutorials available on line, the lessons and early childhood sites, is the only way I can imagine she could learn without outside help. I also worry that she will be socially ignorant, too, and potentially vulnerable to exploitation when she gets out into the world. The parents in this situation are criminally negligent and an intervention is needed with the family. If it is not effective then an outside agency should be contacted. The child needs to be tested to see if there are learning disabilities that need to be addressed and then she needs some dedicated help. And the Annie ladies need to be slapped with a fish (isn't that what Abby or Ann Landers used to say?) on this one. They are condemning a child to a future which is rapidly narrowing in possibilities. It will be painful for the child to learn what she needs to learn, I suspect. If nothing is done, it's going to be even more painful for that poor girl when she's an adult. As others have said, this is child abuse.

I think you're way off base with your advice to the aunt of the illiterate girl. The longer she goes without developing these skills the harder it is going to be for her to learn them. Kind of like the way kids can pick up a foreign language in no time, but it takes an adult months or years. Her parents are doing her a real disservice. They're at best setting their child up for failure and at worst guilty of neglect.

It is now official. Ann Landers has rolled over in her grave!

Wait, what?

So the kid should just stay illiterate? I beg to disagree. Child-centered curriculum is fine, but they need to learn the basics. Reading, phonics, how to count to one hundred . . . If this girl is 11 years old and can't do any of that, then there is something seriously wrong with how she's being taught.

I disagree wholeheartedly. This IS the aunt's business.

This child is deeply delayed and needs to be evaluated for learning disabilities.

As a fourth grade teacher, I was aghast at the advice given to Molly's Aunt. At age 11, Molly should be reading on a fifth or sixth grade level. If her parents died, or were unable to teach her and she entered public school, she would be far behind the other students. A child can absolutely be taught according to his or her interests, but that does not preclude the child being taught basic reading and mathematics skills. What I found most disheartening was that the girl was embarrassed over the situation. Imagine how much her embarrassment would be heightened if she had to enter a school setting so obviously behind her peers, or wanted to fill out a job application, but was unable to read it. The aunt should continue to speak Molly's parents to ensure that she gets the education she deserves.

I'm so.... glad I'm not the only one appalled at their answer to this letter. If no child left behind doesn't apply to home schooling, then it should. This is just another form of child abuse and should be treated as such.

Leaving an 11-year-old child to essentially fend for herself regarding the most basic part of education is unconscionable. Any school system that allows home schooled children to be evaluated by other members of a home school group is sadly lacking. The advice to leave it be is unbelievable. If the aunt is in a position to have her niece visit often, perhaps she could set up reading time at her house on a regular basis. Use lower grade level books at first. Make it fun. Write a play, with each person having a part. That might get her interested enough to WANT to put forth enough effort to at least get her reading level up. It's obvious that the aunt is not going to be able to get through to the child's parents. They seem to be taking the stand that their own higher education will be passed along to their daughter by osmosis, rather than their own efforts. How sad.

I, too, am the aunt of home-schooled children. Well, formerly home-schooled, that is. And this is why I believe your answer to Molly's aunt was way off base.
My nieces were home-schooled by their mother for six years. After several years, extended family members began to express concern (three of them are elementary school teachers). I thought it was none of my business so I butted out, as you told Molly's aunt to do.
A year ago circumstances changed and my nieces had to enroll in their local elementary school. Academically, these poor girls were one and two years behind for their ages. Yes, they were ahead in things they enjoyed learning, but they were behind in other necessary things, such as reading and math. They were unskilled in organizing their time and upholding responsibility for their age group.
Parents sometimes are too close to the situation to see a realistic view of their child's academic progress. Academics continuously change and unless parents are professionally involved in education, it's easy to be unaware of current required skills. Equally important for children is the art of cooperation and learning to work with others, both their peers and their teacher. What child will willingly learn things they aren't interested in, if not enforced by someone of authority? What will such a child do as an adult in the working world?
Parents can't be allowed to do whatever they want when raising their children. Children need a voice and in this case, Molly is lucky to have an aunt who cares enough to be concerned and speak up.

I can't wait to see how the ladies will take one of your letters, change the source, and use it to tell you all how you are wrong. Watch for it. They used one of my letters exactly that way.

I am sending copies of all of these quite excellent posts to my local newspaper editor. I am requesting that they stop carrying the Annie's Mailbag column. It lacks the wisdom and intelligence of the real Ann Landers column and adds nothing beneficial to my day's reading.